#arthurian reading order

[gawrkin]

WAIT- if Le Morte De Arthur isn't the original thing to read first when beginning arthuriana, which one is🤔? since I've seen people complain about malory and some of his changes to characters such as lancey

I would recommend to you Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, the big pseudo-historical chronicle detailing the history of Britain and her rulers. Link to a Translation HERE.

More specifically, if you just want read only about King Arthur's reign, Books 9 to 11

You can also read Books 6 and Book 8, if you want the entire narrative to include the deeds of Uther, Merlin, Aurelius Ambrosius and Vortigern. Book 7 is this huge political prophecy Geoffrey wrote and really isn't relevant to the story.

You can read all of Historia if you want to, but the earlier books don't really factor into the Arthurian narrative, so skip onwards to Book 9 if want this to be shorter than Le Morte.

The reason I would recommend you Historia Regum Britanniae first is because:

Historia is the ground zero of the Arthuriana. This is where King Arthur and his story caught on with storytellers; there are other older stories and folktales but this where a large majority of the popular tradition unfolded from.

Arthur is the main character here. The spotlight is completely on him without other characters (coughLancelotcough) stealing the word count. So you'll get a hang of his initial character before later stories altered it.

It will give you the basic chronology of Arthur's reign in a simplified manner. You wont find the adventures of the knights like Gawain and Lancelot here - those are the later additions and reading Historia first will help in grasping the basic skeleton of Arthur's story and personal timeline.

It will allow you to spot all the later changes made to the story and characters when you start read the other works. It helps with analysing and comparing the stories and characters.

The English Translations (the ones that I can find online) of Historia are much easier to read than the Old, Medieval English of Le Morte.

Afterwards, you can go read the Romances of Chretien de Troyes (Erec and Enide, Cliges, Knight of the Cart, Knight of the Lion, Perceval and its Continuations) intermixed with whatever romance catches your eye (I recommend the welsh story Culhwch and Olwen). Chretien is pretty much the Father of the Romances and the inventor of nearly other important elements, like Sir Lancelot and the Grail Quest.

From here on, your set to read everything else in whatever manner you can choose, especially the Big Bad Monster-Truck-of-a-narrative called Vulgate Cycle.

**Note: Historia Regum Britanniae, as well as some of Chretien works recommended above, also have adaptations and variants that altered and introduced some elements not found in the original source. Famously, Roman de Brut, an adaptation of Historia by Robert Wace, introduced the iconic Round Table, which isn't found in Geoffrey's original.

[blackhholes]

Teen Wolf as Arthurian Characters

Isaac Lahey as Lancelot du Lac

[hungnitan]

HSR x Fate UBW coming in Q3 2025 !

(I write these in mind for anyone doesn't know Fate series at all)

For now it's unknown will it come with stories or just skin or full pack with playable UBW character

Not long ago HSR had interview with FGO team, the magazine only release their Q&A but considering both side love each other project, these collab shouldn't really suprising. If there's suprising fact is why only UBW not FGO directly ? Since there is no info about collab details, let's make some analysis for now :

FGO especially Fate series is really big world ! If you need comparasion, it's not only Honkai Impact world but all Hoyoverse become one and you need to know at least a bit of each title to make sense about Fate series !

Continuing point above, which is the reason they gave us years for this collab ! Their developer consider years should be enough for player to quick read most Fate series franchise (lol)

Fate as whole already into their 20 years old now so it's kinda impossible for anyone to learn that series from start (even I only know fifty percent of it). So to make it simple, they just pick their well known franchise but not making players too confused about their world building which is Fate Stay Night. UBW is decent choice considering what's happened with other two.

If anyone need comparasion, UBW kinda like GGZ in term of popularity and reminiscing (lol) while FGO kinda like former Genshin in term of popularity.

I kinda saw FGO pretty desperate nowdays or maybe they're already out of idea to promote Fate series onward. For anyone doesn't know, FGO was the king of mobile gacha games but after Genshin release their revenue drop sharply and with more Chinese gacha games out lately, you can say now it's their lowest situations so to be honest Fate series feels like gonna dying sooner or later which is this collab came.

I can say for sure that this collab came from HSR side since those otaku ops growth like now while watching/reading Fate series (lol) so I think there's no way HSR or even Fate team will slack off especially for storytelling since it's Fate main selling (if there's one for collab later lol)

Onto collab prediction since it's specifically UBW, means the main character is either Rin or/and Emiya. Maybe anyone still not read questionable leaks but there's info this collab need two version to finish means there's at least four and max six new character avaliable later. Considering UBW stories, I can think of Saber and Gilgamesh or maybe Kirei can join the roaster too.

Now for everyone who doesn't know Fate series and need pointer for later collab, first please watch Fate Stay Night, it have three titles with same story premise but different PoV with different ending (Fate Stay Night 24 episode -> Fate Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works 1 movie -> Fate Stay Night Heaven's Feel 3 parts movie). Next it's Fate Stay Night prologue, Fate Zero 24 episode and you're good to breakthrough the collab only.

Sounds simple right, which is the reason they choose Unlimited Blade Works for collab. If FGO, you could swarm yourself with 9 years FGO lore materials + other works with and without "Fate" titles on it (lol)

[liminalpsych]

Skipping scene 11 out of an abundance of caution for mature content. You can find it in the AO3 edition.

12. For pride in love

“For all his strength and boldness, this knight’s spirit is too weak,” Kay spat, seething with a fury far greater than the circumstance suggested.

Lancelot flinched at the ice in the seneschal’s voice in spite of himself. Why this vitriol? Always was Kay sharp of tongue, but rarely was there such passion in his speech. Certainly Kay was protective of his foster-brother, but that seemed not enough to warrant this kind of wounded rage.

“His heart does not obey his king, such that he breaks his solemn oath of fealty and betrays his liege and his brothers-in-arms alike.”

Ah, that was it. Wounded.

Lancelot turned his gaze away from Kay, then, a deep ache growing in his chest. Kay, who never trusted easily and who called few men his friend, felt their brotherhood and friendship sorely betrayed.

What little thawing of Kay’s cold heart he’d seen over the years would harden again from this.

Another high cost of his love, and one he sorely grieved.

“The laws of kings don’t bend and can’t be broken. His crime has no excuses, and he should be given no favour nor mercy.” Kay’s spine was stiff and straight as a spear. His voice only grew in conviction with every word.

Sir Kay met his foster-brother’s gaze with a level stare.

“You know the only price for treason, my king.”

The first to speak was Kay with sharpest tongue,

"He is a man like any other,

The word of kings command him, his heart does not obey

For all his strength and boldness this knight's spirit is too weak.

His crime has no excuses and no favours may he seek;

The laws of kings don't bend and can't be broken."

And Lancelot, his head held high,

Said, "I stand for love of Guinevere,

For pride in love."

[uncultureddoubloon]

I should go read up on the Epic of Gilgamesh at some point. Never formally studied it on school, and I'd like to have more than a vague passing familiarity with the characters & plot/adventures/what happens. Best I got is recognizing a handful of names because they're connected in pop culture referencing the Epic

[yaeggravate]

could capitano be anfortas alberich?

it's more likely than you think 👍🏽✨️

arguments in favor of anfortas = capitano:

capitano's potential constellation could be the three nails which is a reference to jesus' crucifixion. i honestly can't picture this constellation belonging to any other harbinger unless sandrone's ruin guard is carrying some heavy bagage.

anfortas is named after the fisher/sinner king from arthurian legend, he is usually portrayed as a jesus-like figure in more modern adaptations, due to his never-ending suffering. he was also stabbed with the holy spear in the same side as jesus during his crucifixion.

in the poem the waste land by t.s. eliot, he associates the fisher king with the tarot card the three staves. in some tarot decks (most notably thoth which is pictured below), the three staves are positioned exactly like the three nails

anfortas' fate is currently unknown, as he is khaenri'ahn it's not unreasonable to assume he could've survived for 500 years

his relative kaeya was conveniently present when varka's letter about capitano was being read in an event about lost family members

according to varka, capitano hides his face so no one can know his identity and origins. anfortas was part of the schwanenritter which is a reference to the swan knight legend, where the knight had to conceal his identity, name and origins

varka says capitano is an ordinary mortal with the courage to go up against gods which is basically khaenri'ah's motto

capitano's helmet has a makeshift 8-pointed star on it which is usually associated with khaenri'ah (tbf 8-pointed stars can also be found in other places, such as the adventurer's guild, the hexenzirkel and now natlan.)

capitano has blue eyes and so far every khaenri'ahn character we've met has blue-ish eyes with the exception of arlecchino who is descended from the crimson moon clan

anfortas and capitano are both commanders: anfortas was the knight marshal of the schwanenritter (and temporarily became regent of khaenri'ah), capitano is thee captain, the highest ranked harbinger

anfortas' personality is unclear so we can't really compare it to capitano's. BUT what we do know is that he temporarily filled in as regent when irmin was unavailable. he also executed his own comrade after they committed treason by sabotaging a machine yet he still gave them a proper knight's funeral. this could allign with the absolute righteousness and honor capitano is known for

capitano is highly praised and respected within the fatui and the same can be said for anfortas who was close enough to the king that he could petition him and whose subordinates believed in him until the end

An Abandoned Letter... I often think lately about how future generations will tell my story. Will I be a sinner? Or a hero... The situation here is dire, but I believe that our Marshal will find a way. I believe...

the author of this letter wondering if they'll be seen as sinners or heroes and believing anfortas will save them fits pretty well with the three nails constellation, a symbol of salvation and redemption

(there's some interesting irony in anfortas' name meaning infirmity (weakness/illness), which is the opposite of capitano being a strong man. capitano's commedia dell'arte counterpart was a braggart who only boasted about his strength.)

capitano is now in natlan. for some reason, kaeya's hidden strife letters are filled with fire imagery. kaeya's dad says the alberich clan "should lead lives as those who blaze like fire rather than those who wallow in the embers", which is reminiscent of the "secret" the pyro archon shares/will share with the traveler according to the travail trailer: "the rules of war are woven in the womb: the victors shall burn bright, while the losers must turn to ash."

*update: natlan is right next to one of anfortas' ruin golems and in a new world quest we find out there were two khaenri'ahn knights in natlan who were ordered by someone highly respected to stop the abyss from spreading. based on context clues their superior is likely anfortas. perhaps anfortas also ended up in natlan and something happened to him there

**update: the schwanenritter were most likely part of the black serpent knights, khaenri'ah's royal guard, since one of the schwanenritter used the same model as a black serpent windcutter. isn't it convenient then that capitano is dressed as a black serpent with those black scales and visor in the triangular shape of a snake's head?

arguments against the theory:

anfortas lost his left eye, while capitano is said to have dark blue eyes plural. however, it's unclear if anfortas literally lost his left eye or was merely blinded. he could have also grown back the eye cause idk khaenri'ah genes/abyss goo/bald

three harbingers from khaenri'ah seems a bit overkill. (though you could argue we already have three harbingers from snezhnaya: childe, pulcinella and pantalone.) we don't have any harbingers from natlan (or liyue), and currently capitano seems like the most likely option. however, knowing hyv's colorism, it could be columbina instead. according to the harbinger wheel columbina should be arriving after arlecchino, although we haven't seen her in any of the trailers yet. (all hope for brown-skinned capitano is not lost if he's related to kaeya though!)

since anfortas is the "fisher" king and ended up with one eye, he could be kaeya's "pirate" grandpa or even his dad and i'm not too confident hyv is gonna imply capitano had a lover with kids unless he gets signora'd lol. on the other hand, arthurian anfortas was famously saved by his nephew, which could mean our anfortas is kaeya's uncle.

***update: capitano can use nightsoul which is exclusive to people from natlan. however, the traveler can also use phlogiston (though no word on nightsoul yet) and mavuika senses an "unusual presence" inside cap which could explain his powers

[highlynerdy]

"I do it because I want to protect him from the world, and sometimes from myself. I want to tell him every secret I ever had, and yet I never want to make him choose, to see the hurt in his eyes, to put this, too, on him. I want-I want so many things. Sometimes, I just want."

Turning The Page by @queerofthedagger / art by @schweetheart

I started this fanARTifact in July 2021 and finally, finally finished it in September 2024. Click below to see so many more pictures and read probably too much about the project.

This project was a LABOR OF LOVE because y'all...I failed so, so many times during the making of it. I had grand dreams of all the things that I was going to do and learn and every single time I tried something it was like the universe telling me to go ahead and go fuck myself, we're not doing that. But it's done and I'm pleased with it. I hope Mona and Schweets are. Let's talk about the process.

I read this story back in July 2021 when it came out and immediately wrote @schweetheart on July 23, 2021 to ask if I could use her art for the back because it was such a crucial part of the story.

She graciously allowed me to use it, and even sent me a high res file so I could have the portrait of Arthur printed on art paper.

THEN. My brilliantly stupid self decided that just making the book wasn't enough. I mean, I had already done that for Arthur's journal back in 2020 and I am nothing if not a nutter about learning to do new things, especially for my fanARTifact series.

SO. I'm going to learn to make paper. Yeah. Totally a reasonable escalation in terms of new skills, right?? ......... Nope. I bought a small 5x7 mould and deckle to practice with and some cotton linters to make the pulp. Twas. A. Failure. I didn't have a press or the felts or the sizing needed to make the paper actually, ya know, usable. This was the first time I put the project down for a while.

Moving on to another new skill in late 2021, I decided that I wanted to make the walnut ink myself. Luckily, I was part of a pigment subscription in 2020 (that is a hell of a nerdy statement, even for me) and had all the supplies in my art studio to attempt this endeavor.

I didn't fail this part! Fucking huzzah for small miracles. Now I had two small bottles of black walnut ink to use for the calligraphy that I wanted to do for some of the excerpts. Except now I was stuck again on the paper making part so I put it back down again for an eternity.

Picking it back up in late 2022, I asked Mr. Highlynerdy to make a custom size mould and deckle for me so I could have long pieces to fold for my signatures. It was his first time doing anything like this but he's a buddy and a pal and gave it a try. Surprising no one if you've read this far, we both failed this part. Even now, I'm still not sure we succeeded but eventually we did get something workable. And considering professional mould and deckles cost in the hundreds of dollars...yeah, it'll do.

It took a hot ass minute for me to feel ready to attempt the paper making again but once I was ready, I ordered wet, pre-beaten pulp from Twinrocker. A very curt man on the phone helped me figure out what I needed and added internal sizing to the pulp I ordered. I didn't take pictures of any of the paper stuff because it was very messy and annoying. Once again, Mr. Highlynerdy helped me rig up a drying box with tri-wall cardboard and ratchet straps and a box fan. Once the paper was dry, I used a gelatin mixture to paint on external sizing. Since I'm primarily a painter, I needed the paper to be able to handle ink, paint, pencil. Sizing paper is the only way to do this, but no worries, I won't go further into the nerdy details about this.

Once the paper was ready, I decided to sew the text block. Here's another part where I failed YET A-FUCKING-GAIN. I talked before on Arthur's Journal post about how books were very, very rare in the 6th century (Arthurian period), but BBC Merlin is soooooo anachronistic that it's fiiiiiine to just do what I wanted. HOWEVER. I did want to try to do visible spine binding. But. Unfortunately I had gone ahead and used all of my paper to bind the text block as if I was going to case it in. FUUUUUUUCCCCCK. It's fine. We're fine. Come on, brain. What can we do.

Well, what we CAN'T do is use a piece of leather from my large remnant that I bought for my first journal because someone - FUCKING ME - measured and cut the last piece NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE WIDTH of the text block. So now it doesn't fit. And refusing to buy a new piece of leather I'm forced to pivot once again.

I decided to cut the leather spine even shorter, buy some wood pieces and sand them, paint them a matte black, and then glue the leather to those pieces. Cool cool cool. We're moving on. I tested a lot of different glues for this and good ol' super glue ended up being the clear winner. Cue putting this project away again for a whiiiillle.

In October 2023, I decided to pull it out again and do the calligraphy and drawings I wanted. This story has so many gorgeous parts but I finally decided on the first page, the last page, and the page about Gaius.

I mixed my handmade walnut ink with my beloved Finetec gold and used the quills I bought from John Neal Booksellers to practice my Uncial. I shouldn't have been rusty after lettering an entire fic for this fanARTifact, but I was.

The little dragon was inspired by medieval manuscript dragons I found.

Narratively, I loved the idea that Merlin's writing would start off soft and delicate and become stronger by the end of the journal. Also, I loved that the end word "WANT" would be just gold because the ink blend changes throughout. Something magical or whatever.

This part needed tears. They might have been real ones...

Annnnnnnnd, the project was put down again until a few days ago when I decided, after getting back into Merlin fic, I needed to buck up and finish it.

I did so many tests for the cover. I tried embossing, carving, and debossing and hated all of them. I settled on painting it with acrylic paints in the shape of a Celtic knot sort of pattern. I originally wanted to do a triskelion but after reading a bit about how some asshole groups have co-opted the symbol for shitty purposes, I decided against it. It's a mix of black and gold and it's hard to capture the depth of it through photos...eh, I did what I could.

Still. Something wasn't quite working with the brown leather and the black covers with the new symbol so I broke out my matte black leather paint and decided to go all black.

All I had left to do was glue in the text block and it would be done! And that still took me a few days to work up the courage. The book opens nice and flat, which will be good for me as I will use it as a sketchbook.

Sitting here, on September 1st, I have completed a project that taught me many new skills and also taught me a lot about humility and perseverance. There was no way I was going to abandon this project, and maybe I should have started over many of the times, but I am quite in love with the final result and I just hope that it does it's inspiration proud. Thank you @queerofthedagger Mona for all you create and share with the Merlin fandom, and thank you @schweetheart for allowing me to use your gorgeous art.

Also, you may see quite a few other fanARTifacts in this photoshoot because I will use any opportunity to show them off lol.

If you read to the end of this, you deserve a cocktail and a cookie. Thank you. 💛✨✨

[artbyblastweave]

Years and years and years back, I was tinkering with a concept that, at the time, I hadn't seen done before, which was to do a Fables or Once Upon A Time-style mass-fairy-tale-retelling in a soft-sci-fi space opera/planetary romance setting. I remember a couple of overarching concepts. One was that the classic Fairy Tales being remixed with increasingly outlandish genres was an actual metaphysical conceit of the setting; the big bad was going to be King Arthur, who, due to his nature as the one who cyclically dies and returns, had become cognizant of all the times he'd lived through the same shitshow but with a wild west veneer or an urban-fantasy veneer or a mad-max veneer or a coffee-shop-AU veneer, and on this-go around, he'd decided to use the planet-shattering imperial might of space!camelot to attempt a suicide run against the entire universe in the hopes of deviating from the script strongly enough to break the cycle. (Note that all of this came from a place of total ignorance of Arthurian lore, which is in part why I never pulled the trigger on it- I felt I had reading to do.) The other character concept that stuck in my head was that there was this tertiary character who was the classic space-western gunslinger- constantly swooping in at the last minute to bail the heroes out, rugged and squinty-eyed, effortlessly laying waste to vastly superior opponents with nary a thought. Through context clues (such as his ability to fly in outer space under his own power) it was eventually going to be made clear that this was supposed to be the setting's version of Peter Pan. Prior to the Space Opera cycle, Neverland’s conceptual gravity as a place that fundamentally does not change allowed it to avoid being reset at the end of each cycle; Peter's cavalier attitude towards life and death was informed by the fact that no matter how many times Hook dies, no matter how many times the Darlings visited and departed, they'd always eventually come back, albeit with mannerisms informed by whatever conceit was currently dominating the rest of the universe outside Neverland. Unfortunately, for the space-opera cycle Hook showed up as the captain of a star-destroyer-type thing and unceremoniously glassed Neverland from orbit, ending the party for good. Peter then finally took the plunge into quote-unquote "adulthood" in order to adopt a vengeful-pursuer role- indeed, he stakes a lot of his present identity on the idea that he was finally "forced to grow up"- but it's of course obvious to anyone who gets remotely close to him that he's only become "more mature" in the way that the gratuitous blood-and-guts Liefeldian anti-heroes of the 90s positioned themselves as a mature alternative to the cornball antics of the silver age; all he's done is trade up to a slightly more involved Juvenile power fantasy, still equally divorced from adulthood even if he looks 35.

[oneshoulderangel]

There are time when I’m reading Arthurian sources for my comic and I’m like “I may not like this, but in order to keep the spirit of the story I need to figure out how to appreciate it and work it in to my larger story despite the problems I personally I have with it.” And then there are times when I’m like “Shut up Malory, I do what I want and your idea was dumb and stupid.”

[hollowed-theory-hall]

So, I saw this gorgeous art by @shleyla and it got me thinking, yeah, they're right the sword of Gryffindor was in the lake and Snape acted as a sort of Lady of the Lake, leading Harry to the sword in a frozen lake. Except Ron got the sword, not Harry. So, is Ron the king of England, confirmed? ("Weasley is our king" after all, and Ron's dad is named Arthur). I'm mostly joking about Ron being the king of England.

But all this made me think about the goblin legends about the sword of Gryffindor and whether it's possible the sword of Gryffindor actually is Excalibur of the HP universe. Griphock states the sword wasn't forged for Gryffindor but that it predates him and was used by a Gobling king:

“I am not a thief, boy! I am not trying to procure treasures to which I have no right!” “The sword’s ours—” “it is not,” said the goblin. “We’re Gryffindors, and it was Godric Gryffindor’s—” “And before it was Gryffindor’s, whose was it?” demanded the goblin, sitting up straight. “No one’s,” said Ron. “It was made for him, wasn’t it?” “No!” cried the goblin, bristling with anger as he pointed a long finger at Ron. “Wizarding arrogance again! That sword was Ragnuk the First’s, taken from him by Godric Gryffindor! It is a lost treasure, a masterpiece of goblinwork! It belongs with the goblins. The sword is the price of my hire, take it or leave it!”

(DH, 432)

But why would a goblin king forge himself a sword made for human proportions? And if Excalibur exists in the HP universe, it stands to reason it would be a magical, goblins-forged blade?

So, what if the sword actually belonged to the HP universe version of King Arthur, and that either the goblins took it back upon his death, or it passed to a descendant (Godric Gryffindor as a descendant of King Arthur is a weird idea, I know, but I'm thinking it).

(All this also made me want to draw Ron as King Arthur, Hermione as Guinevere, and Harry as Merlin... or something like that... maybe I'll do it)

Now, the timeline for all of this is a little murky. Because the founders founded Hogwarts around 990, Merlin supposedly studied in Slytherin House, so he was eleven after the founding. The thing is, the Arthurian legends place King Arthur and Merlin as being alive much earlier, with most historians placing Arthur around 460-560.

So, my headcanon is that Merlin predates Hogwarts and the founders, and the legends of Merlin studying at Hogwarts are just that — legends.

The Order of Merlin, commemorating the most famous wizard of his time, has been given since the fifteenth century. Legend says that the green ribbon, on which the First Class Order hangs, is to reflect Merlin’s Hogwarts house.

(from Pottermore)

It is outright stated Merlin's Hogwarts house is a legend. I think it's a legend everyone believes to be true, but might not actually be true. I couldn't find a source that really stated Merlin was a Hogwarts student 100% which would be historically reliable. It's pretty much the same as in real history. When you try to read about the early medieval era irl you need to sift through a lot of bullshit and inaccurate statements and translations, it's likely the wizarding world is the same.

Also, while researching this, I found there is a stained glass window in Hogwarts that portrays him as an old man with a long beard (at least in Hogwarts Legacy). Windows are usually constructed with the building, so it is possible to take it as evidence Merlin and legends of him existed before Hogwarts was founded. And, there's a legend Hogwarts was founded where the founders discovered a pensive:

One (unsubstantiated) legend says that the founders discovered the Pensieve half-buried in the ground on the very spot where they decided to erect their school.

(From Pottermore)

So what if Merlin was where Hogwarts is, and made the pensive the founders discovered that we see Dumbledore using. If he really predated Hogwarts but has spent time in the are and history got mixed up with legends as history often does. And then, the sword of Gryffindor could actually be The Excalibur.

This is like, a silly part theory/part headcanon, but it was fun for me to think about.

[queer-ragnelle]

Can you recommend some books that focus on Arthur's children that you've liked?

Hi anon! Sure can. I’ll list them in order of release and note which kids are in it.

Mordred, A Tragedy by Henry Newbolt (Mordred)

The Wicked Day by Mary Stewart (Mordred)

Idylls of the Queen by Phyllis Ann Karr (Mordred)

The Book of Mordred by Peter Hanratty (Mordred)

The Winter Prince by Elizabeth Wein (Medraut, Lleu, & Goewin)

The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell (Amhar, Loholt, & Gwydre)

A Camelot Triptych by Norris J Lacy (Mordred)

Exiled From Camelot by Cherith Baldry (Loholt & Mordred)

Arthurian Tales by Phyllis Ann Karr (Mordred)

There are definitely more books with Arthur’s kids but either I didn’t read them or didn’t like them. Most often it’s Mordred/Medraut, but the others do show up occasionally. If the author is still alive and in print, I linked to goodreads, otherwise a PDF to read. Enjoy!

[finnlongman]

Keep thinking about that one KJ Charles interview where she's talking about the challenges of being a historical romance novelist when you sort of believe the whole aristocracy should've been executed, and the delicate balancing act of writing historically accurate and interesting characters who don't have awful politics and values. And, crucially, she challenged the typical rich love interest idea by asking, "But where does the money come from?"

Once you think about it, you can't stop thinking about it. Every historical romance I read now, I can tell whether the author has thought about it. Sometimes they've thought about it but tried not to deal with it and hoped we wouldn't notice that the rich aristocrat probably owns a plantation. Sometimes they've actually dealt with it. And sometimes they have not considered it and It Shows.

But I also don't want historical novels where characters have modern sensibilities! I want them to feel historical... I just also want the "desirable" characters to not be, you know, involved in the slave trade or whatever, because that seriously undermines everything the book is doing to make them seem attractive. (One does not generally read this flavour of historical romance for morally grey antiheroes, and even if you did, that would be a fairly tasteless way of developing such a character, imo.)

I really enjoyed a detail in one of Cat Sebastian's books where the love interest is a Quaker, and he refuses dessert because he's boycotting sugar. It's a way of signalling to us that this character has particular values, but one that's rooted in the historical context and doesn't feel like a modern character wearing period clothing. His Quakerism also influences a few other details – his use of first names rather than titles, for example – but it's not a major plot point and he's no intense political campaigner. It's just one facet of his character, and one that made me like him more.

This sort of thing becomes a problem, too, with medieval settings and retellings and anything where you start having to deal with kings. A king of some tiny little pseudohistorical country whose major concerns revolve around not getting invaded and ensuring his people survive the winter is a very different prospect from a king intent on conquering his neighbours and expanding his glorious kingdom, of course. Still a king, though. What do you do with that, if you're someone who doesn't approve of kings?

I ran into this problem with a book I was working on a few years back, and it's one of the reasons I shelved it. I was trying to write a book about community and friendship. I was also trying to write an Arthurian retelling. And while a brotherhood of knights is a great starting point for a story about community and friendship, in order to have knights, you need to have a king for them to pledge fealty to. Problematic. My Arthur figure did not believe in hierarchy, but the story demanded that he perpetuated one anyway, because it was baked into the building blocks of story I was using to build mine. Eventually I realised I could not write that story as an Arthurian retelling without stripping it of everything recognisably Arthurian, and set it aside to be remade into something else.

I still think about this, though. I think about my Bisclavret retelling, which by necessity has a king in it. Bisclavret is a story about feudal loyalty, about oaths, about hierarchies. Take that away and you no longer have Bisclavret; it is a story that cannot exist without a king for the knight-wolf to be loyal to. Does that mean that as a story it always inherently supports a monarchist ideal, though? Or is its portrayal of kingship (a relationship that is, crucially, reciprocal) sufficiently detached from colonialist systems of monarchy to be distinct from those?

What systems and ideals form the assumptions a story is rested on? What happens once you start to question them? Can you still tell the same stories once you ask where the money comes from, or why the king is owed loyalty? Or does there come a point where you realise there are ideas woven into the very fabric of those narratives that you can't see past?

I don't have answers. I'm just thinking aloud. Thinking about having written a book with a king who isn't the bad guy, and what that means when I approve of neither kings nor hierarchies in general. Thinking about writing the past with the eyes of the present. Thinking about the unexamined assumptions in so many historical novels I've read, and how it feels as a reader not to be able to stop examining them.

(I have also read a number of contemporary romance novels where, after working my way through half an author's backlist, I've been forced to acknowledge that despite everything, the author does in fact think rich people are inherently attractive. Not sure what the solution to that one is, but it's certainly a different, if related, problem.)

[marwyn]

what do you think of rhaegar x lyanna?

The asoiafblr equivalent of

I suppose I did have it coming though. What we know of their relationship definitely compels me, and I’ll start by elaborating on this post—besides the readily apparent Paris/Helen and Tristan/Isolde allusions, Rhaegar and Lyanna remind me of the principal characters from Thomas Chestre’s Arthurian romance Sir Launfal but gender-swapped. Let’s start with the Tourney at Harrenhal.

But the next morning, when the heralds blew their trumpets and the king took his seat, only two champions appeared. The Knight of the Laughing Tree had vanished. The king was wroth, and even sent his son the dragon prince to seek the man, but all they ever found was his painted shield, hanging abandoned in a tree. It was the dragon prince who won that tourney in the end. (ASOS, Bran II)

Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty’s laurel in Lyanna’s lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost. […] Promise me, Ned, his sister had whispered from her bed of blood. She had loved the scent of winter roses. (AGOT, Ned XV)

Now I’m sure the following won’t be news to asoiaf veterans but for the sake of comparison let’s lay it all out. It hardly seems an accident that the infamous laurel happened to be made of a flower beloved of its recipient; most likely Rhaegar did in fact find the Knight of the Laughing Tree, who turned to be one Lyanna Stark, they conversed, and since she had had to flee the tourney and thus forfeit her chance of winning he decided to win it himself in order to honor her publicly in the only way possible by making her Queen of Love and Beauty (not a particularly strategic move, but I have to say that I appreciate the sort of fairy-tale logic of it all), and finally, if you believe that Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar willingly, they may have also made plans to correspond secretly in the future. With all of this in mind let’s take a look at some of the pertinent story beats of Sir Launfal:

Launfal rides off alone into a forest and rests under a tree

Two maidens approach and invite him to speak to their lady Tryamour in her pavilion

Tryamour is the ethereally beautiful daughter of the powerful fairy king of the west

The knight and the fairy princess profess their love for one another, she bestows upon him several gifts, and they make plans to correspond secretly in the future.

Rhaegar may be a less obvious choice than Lyanna “Knight of the Laughing Tree” Stark for comparison to a character of the opposite gender, but the gender paradigm in Sir Launfal is already an interesting one given that the fairy princess provides financially for her knight lover and ultimately rescues him like a damsel in distress (more on that later). Furthermore, Rhaegar himself also experienced some friction in regard to his proscribed Westerosi gender role:

As a young boy, the Prince of Dragonstone was bookish to a fault. He was reading so early that men said Queen Rhaella must have swallowed some books and a candle whilst he was in her womb. Rhaegar took no interest in the play of other children. The maesters were awed by his wits, but his father’s knights would jest sourly that Baelor the Blessed had been born again. Until one day Prince Rhaegar found something in his scrolls that changed him. No one knows what it might have been, only that the boy suddenly appeared early one morning in the yard as the knights were donning their steel. He walked up to Ser Willem Darry, the master-at-arms, and said, ‘I will require sword and armor. It seems I must be a warrior.’ (ASOS, Daenerys I)

Now let’s take a look at why Lyanna and Launfal might have decided to run away with the royals they met in the woods.

“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” (AGOT, Ned IX)

Launfal and other noble knights, however, did not like [the future queen Guenevere], for the lady had a reputation for having lovers besides her lord too numerous to count. (Sir Launfal, trans. James Weldon)

Soon enough Launfal finds himself the unwelcome focus of the queen’s amorous intentions and his refusal goes very poorly. He is saved when his princess lover rides up to Camelot and takes him away to the land of the fairies, leaving naught but a rumor in his wake:

Every year upon a certain day people can hear Launfal’s steed neigh and see him. Whosoever desires to joust and keep their armour trim in tournament or fight can find his match with Sir Launfal, the knight. (Sir Launfal)

Which of course tracks nicely with the happenings at Harrenhal:

The mystery knight dipped his lance before the king and rode to the end of the lists, where the five champions had their pavilions. […] The porcupine knight fell first, then the pitchfork knight, and lastly the knight of the two towers. None were well loved, so the common folk cheered lustily for the Knight of the Laughing Tree, as the new champion soon was called. (ASOS, Bran II again)

All this to say that I find their relationship quite fascinating in its metatextuality. Was it love at first sight as in Sir Launfal? Almost certainly not, but it seems clear to me that they had a strong connection and I’m glad Lyanna was able to escape the arranged marriage to Robert which she clearly did not want. As for the common discourse topics on here regarding their relationship i.e. their respective ages, his marital status, the prophecy, these generally just aren’t that interesting to me…and post.

[building-camelot]

I'm reading Marion Bradley's Mists of Avalon (1982) right now and I'm struck with a fascinating parallel with BBC Merlin.

Some context: MoA is a retelling of Arthurian legends through the eyes of its women (great premise, but I won't dwell on that right now), starting with Igraine. Here, she's confronted with the fact that her and Uther are destined to find each other, in order to bring about the Once and Future King👑. (same concept, different wording)

Now read this passage:

Now who might this possibly remind you of?

(also I recommend the book so far)

[fuckyeaharthuriana]

I added to the list of books recs 4 books! (technically 5!)

The books recs list is this tumblr page where you can click on specific tags (ex. main character, romance, second character etc.) to find which books are tagged with it.

The four books added are:

Kaffka, the Holy Grail and a Woman Who reads: The Quests of Sir Kay (Rhoad) - which is a very fun Kay-focused humorous book where Kay finds a new squire, save a little dog, fall in love and mess up with the Grail quest. I definitely recommend this if you like Kay, Elaine of Tintagel, Galahad (secondary character) and you do not mind humor and anachronisms.

Cavall in Camelot (Mackaman) - Currently two books, both about Cavall, Arthur's dog. The books are mainly focused on Cavall, Arthur and other dogs. The first book also focuses on Mordred and the second on Bedivere and Lucan (and the quest for the Holy Grail). I would definitely recommend at least book one if you want to see Arthur's kingdom through new eyes, and if you like reading about the relationship between Mordred and Arthur.

King & Raven (Cary James) - A novel focused on a new chaarcter (Raven) who joins Arthur's court and becomes a knight. Very historical-focused, a lot of it is set in France and away from arthurian court. Other characters who appear are Arthur, Lancelot and a lot of new OC.

The Last Knight (Baldry) - A collection of short stories focused on Kay, in chronological order from a teen Kay to Arthur's end at Camlann. Some are new, some were published in different books and magazines. Other characters who appear are Arthur, Gareth, Gawain and Lancelot. Recommended if you are a whump fan, love hurt/comfort, like to see Kay in pain and being comforted (not always... sometimes it is hurt no comfort) and you like to read about Arthur & Kay.

[hanzajesthanza]

I've finally cleared up my reading list and I'm thinking about actually reading the Witcher books, any thoughts and/or prayers in this pursuit. How insane am I going to get after this. For context I've played all the games and have seen one episode of the show. It was not the first episode but it was the first season. I am familiar with the intricacies of the fandom wiki as well. Do I need like a ritual or something, any drug recs, or should I just raw dog that thang

you’ll get as insane as you want to be

my tips:

don’t use the wiki (use your mind). if someone or something is forgettable then you’ve forgotten them. + wiki has a lot of game and other canon that isn’t applicable to the books

don’t worry about putting events in chronological order (sometimes it is only revealed by the end of the book, or by the end of the series)

be open to disliking protagonists and-or “good-aligned” characters

don’t forget yennefer has feelings too

get in touch with your sense of humor

don’t think in modern terms, but in fairy tale ones

there’s more considerable explicit SA and disturbing topics from ch. 7 of time of contempt onwards, it’s not like on every page but just be aware

forget the show exists (even for one episode) and also forget the games exist (not out of spite, just use your own imagination instead of CDPR’s)

for maximum emotional pain think about your own parents or various traumas

read at night, keep tissues and cold water close by for when you start crying so hard you can’t breathe

recommended pre-reading:

brush up on your WWII history when you get to time of contempt and baptism of fire. specifically (somewhat obviously) in the european theatre

look up slavic folk traditions, culture, and mythology/deities. keywords to search: noc kupały (for something more), morana/marzanna (for time of contempt), dziady (for tower of the swallow)

be aware the official translation is not meant to give you cultural context. if you’re reading it in english, read the “lost in translation” reddit post series by coldcynic.

other than that, know of the existence of lord of the rings and conan and generally fantasy genre tropes. if you know what an elf is you’re probably good