#apologies to OP for the slight tangent

[the-far-bright-center]

That's a good point, and admittedly I was making bit of an assumption there. I appreciate your valuable perspective as an atheist. Even though I do consider myself a 'religious' or 'spiritual' person, I also grew up believing strongly that the concept of clergy or any kind of man-made religious authority was outdated and should be done away with. My dad was something of a scholar on the topic of the history of world religions, and so I likewise grew up with the understanding that religions go through periods when the institutions supporting them may become corrupted or even may be destroyed/dismantled entirely. For this and many other reasons I don't view religious institutions—whether real or fictional—as somehow static, incorruptible, or above criticism. And finally, as a medievalist, I am well-aware of the long and tumultuous history of medieval Christianity and just how intertwined the Church and State were in medieval Europe. The Jedi Order in the Prequels-era strongly reminds me of the Knights Templar, a monastic order that had started out mainly with the purpose of protecting pilgrims from theives and marauders while passing through the Outremer on route to the Holy Land, but which eventually amassed a huge amount of wealth and power, and became used as advance shock troops during the Crusades. They, too, had an apocalyptic downfall, orchestrated by King Philip IV. I guess my perception of the Jedi Order *as an institution* is that it was essentially well-past its 'expiration date' already by the time we're introduced to it in The Phantom Menace.

For the reasons stated above, it's difficult for me to relate to those who 'stan' a fictional religious institution for its own sake. But also because... I just think the individual characters and their relationships are far more interesting and compelling than a fictional religious order that has clearly lost touch with the average beings of the galaxy whom they are supposed to be serving. My view of the *Order* as an entity doesn't even mean I hate the Jedi or that I think their philosophy or spiritual beliefs don't have any merit. Some of it absolutely does, and I'm glad that the resolution of the Lucas saga in RotJ points to Luke restoring the Jedi in a new and better form. Where I differ from those who are obsessed with defending the Prequels-era Jedi Order ‘no matter what’ is that, first and foremost, I embrace the fact the story is a family saga and that the Jedi as a concept exist to serve the Skywalkers' storyline, not the other way around.

'the jedi council's treatment of ahsoka in the bombing arc was perfectly correct'

I'm sorry WHAT

'yeah we did expel a child and let her be military trialled for something that we did not have, beyond reasonable doubt, evidence to confirm it was her, which is the legal standard of criminal proof. she almost got executed and only her overly emotional former master did anything to prevent it, from the jedi. and then we called her almost execution for something she never did a trial of the force after being a child soldier for three years. then we gave her absolutely shit all when she left! hm, wonder why she doesn't return our phone calls' :/

anyway the jedi council had a duty of care to ahsoka and they fumbled it, hard. big L for them.

[metalforhands]

with regards to the post + the post you're talking about

I think three things can be true at once: you got treated badly at some point for being a Danse fan, OP sees a lot of Danse characterization they don't agree with (which wasn't just that people woobify him) and people are allowed to do whatever they want in enjoying fictional characters.

You got treated badly, and I'm sorry for that, but it's probably also true that particular poster doesn't see a lot of Danse/Brotherhood critique on the webbed site. I agree - personally, I don't see a lot of nuanced critique of him, either. I think in my couple of years of being in the Tumblr Fallout fandom I've seen only a handful of posts that really get into the weeds with the Brotherhood and Danse. I don't think it's wrong for someone to speak out on what they view as a lack of what they want to see. But hey, at the same time, if that's what OP wanted, why didn't they just do the thing and release the Danse Critique Post they want to see, right?

All due respect (and I'm not trying to like.. Defend OP or call you out or whatever - I take issue with aspects of both your posts), but I think your interpretation veered off into a different direction from the point they were making, which is that OP is also bemoaning a lack of nuance.

OP didn't frame it in a helpful way (by choosing to go at it from a "this is a Danse Fandom problem" framing - people are allowed to interpret characters how they want; OP should have just written the critique they wanted to see and not go on the offensive), but I feel that you mentioning the lack of nuance in fandom misses that you both want the same thing - you both want more nuanced discussion.

What OP is pointing out is a trend they're noticing that doesn't speak to the same experience you had. You might have had threats in the past, but it doesn't make the core of OP's observations less valid. You have probably had the chance to see way more critique if you're following the Danse tags; OP has not seen the same amount and might have a younger account than yours and thus missed out on a lot of critique that's now buried several years deep in the tags. What has shown up on their screen is not the same as what has shown up on yours. It's not really like there's an equal amount of heady critique of Danse/the Brotherhood and attacks on people who like Danse these days as there probably was earlier in the fandom.

I think what happened to you should never have happened, but I also think it's true that OP doesn't see a lot of Danse critique. I bet if y'all sat in a room together, there'd be a pretty good discussion about Danse where you might see eye to eye.

Sorry to send this on anon but. Have a good day. I hope no one ever sends you threats over fictional characters again. People are allowed to do what they want with those fictional characters, and OP shouldn't have framed it as a community issue and just written the critique they wanted to see.

HI SORRY FOR THE LATE REPLY!!! work has been insane (i legit got interrupted writing this because of an issue with a new hire’s email) and also dragon age veilguard came out and i blacked out the second it finished installing onto my computer. i admittedly don’t have much more to add than this:

jokes aside i legit respect this ask so much and appreciate you taking the time to write it!! thank you anon : )

in terms of my post, the first part was made in response to the original post, while the additional bit was more of a side tangent rather than a direct addition. i could have made a new post HAHA my apologies there

you know i’ve been thinking about this a little, and i think my final thought is, like you said, a lot of danse fans have been here long term and we’ve dealt with 2015 - 2018 tumblr. i know that’s a terrible summary, but it was really an abysmal time where the danse tag was like. 90% accusations and bad faith takes. there’s also been a slight shift in the fandom over the past couple years in that it’s chilled out a bit, which may be why the op hasn’t seen much in terms of critique. that, and i think a lot of long term fans are “critiqued-out” and don’t really feel compelled to write about it nor should they feel pressured to imo

if i had to make a guess in regards to people who get annoyed and reply to any new critique, it’s that they’re pretty sensitive to it from the past. though i do wish they were less reactive on other people’s posts!

it’s all a shame, because it seems these days (in the fo4 fandom at least) criticism is made in much better faith, and is a lot more nuanced and understanding than it used to be.

and like i said previously, i’m also someone who gets annoyed by surface level takes, both negative or positive. so like. i totally get it LOL. i remember i used to make a new shitpost whenever i’d read the most bad faith surface level danse takes ever. ooooh 2018 me was something else

also never feel bad about reaching out over anon!!!!!!! people like you and other friendly folks are why i still leave it open to all :)

[murdocklovespage]

One more note on plagiarism

This is an answer to a Karedevil Squad ask. I figured since these are very much my opinions, I should answer it here so that people could come at me directly if they want, especially since I’m calling a specific person out. 

I’m sorry if this is long-winded or redundant in places. Blame it on the rage. 

I’ve had a few people ask me about my anti-plagiarism comments. They stem from this message, which several people received in their inbox a little over a year ago.

Dmcreif had been a slight annoyance pre-plagiarism explosion. He sent many of us dozens of asks, (frequently the same asks) and was clearly obsessive. He liked to mansplain things like “fridging,” “toxicity,” and why Matt Murdock was somehow not deserving of the fallout from the mistakes he made. That I could deal with because I enjoyed reading people’s differing ideas about the analysis I was writing. Dmcreif does not. He loves to argue. He loves to hear his points validated. And he loves to harass people.

Many of us didn’t see what he was doing until the anon message. I still feel like people are pissed about us validating him by answering his questions/talking to him, but if you weren’t following a ship, or you just missed it, you didn’t always notice this shit. I follow hundreds of people and didn’t see his harassment until a couple of weeks before it blew up.

You’d see a post where he made some asinine Kastle or MattxElektra comment and tag it. You’d see veiled comments about how a “certain Karedevil user” is back at it again. I messaged several people asking about what it meant and they were always classy, just referencing someone who upset their ship. I jumped into an argument he’d started about Elektra’s toxicity saying Matt Murdock was a grown ass man and defending Elektra and I got the nicest message saying the OP appreciated my saying it. They were dealing with this shit on and off Tumblr and I didn’t know it. Not until the anon bomb went off and I started combing through his tumblr and reddit posts.

I realized that I wasn’t the only one he was doing this to and it was much worse than I thought it was. I never received the message, but I found 1200+ word posts I’d written directly copied and pasted under dmreif on reddit, as well as other words I’d written reposted in the comments of other posts. I saw specific users directly pointing out that he stole entire posts without crediting people. Numerous times. My blog name was mentioned in one of these comments on a site I had never used. He knew what he was doing and he kept doing it. It was infuriating. I was shocked.

Here are some examples posts that he stole from:

Mine    “His” Trombonesinspace’s    “His”

Those are the easiest examples and are just a drop in the bucket (dude posts a lot, so don’t waste too much time.) 

After being confronted (and this wasn’t the first time, apparently,) he wrote this “apology” which had been forced out of him when he came to a justifiably pissed individual with his tail between his legs.

There are some wonderful users who noticed these things pre-“apology” and post-“apology”, but he ignored them (once he apparently added quotes, but that doesn’t make it better in my opinion.) People also reported him for copyright violation, but reddit only allows you do that after so long, so in my case, I was out of luck. Check this reddit user’s comment history for some enlightenment.

After this blow up, people stopped talking to him. And responding to his asks. And many blocked him. It didn’t matter. He created a new blog (georgiakaredevilfan) and started sending asks from that. And if people didn’t respond, he’d send anons. His questions are pretty obvious and many of us have recognized when it was him. 

Since you are the person who sent this message, @evs14u , I will give you an example. Here are three of your anon asks with a link to a VERY similar question he asked on reddit.

Your “anon” ask    His post

Your “anon” ask    His post 

Your “anon” ask    His post 

Here is one specific thought he took from you and re-worded - you can find it in the coments of the first “’his’ post” link above. Yours:

“his”

Maybe it seems small, but that only took me twenty minutes to find. He posts to reddit like crazy and I don’t have your words memorized. So it’s more difficult than say, finding 1000+ word posts I wrote and he stole in their entirety.

It’s gotten easy to figure out when a new blog is his. Obsessed with Karen Page? Check. Obsessed with the core three getting back together and Karen having to be their secretary (thanks to DDS3, he’s upgraded that role slightly)? Check. Obsessed with hating Olicity. Elektra being “toxic.” Matt Murdock’s mistakes being somewhat his fault, but mostly the fault of the people he wronged over and over again? Getting the group together sooner? Everything coming around to Karedevil? Check, check, check. And finally: false-ignorance when it comes to harassing people who aren’t in his ship and at the same time blatant harassment and baiting to get reactions while still thinking he’s a good guy. Check.

He makes comments about wanting the ships to get along and how certain “bad apples” spoil the bunch. He is the bad apple. He is the one who stirs up shit when he disagrees. He is obsessive. He makes people hate Karedevil shippers (and we’re a lovely bunch), and he made people want to leave this site altogether (me included.)

He needs your validation. He needs your thoughts so that he can repost them - as @significantowl pointed out, it seems like he’s harvesting opinions that he can use. He’ll send you asks where he tells you something instead of actually asking something. Sometimes there will be a question attached to a tangent (which he likely stole), but most of the time it’s just a statement. He wants you to tell him he’s right. There isn’t much of a way to escape him. He is obsessed. It doesn’t matter when you join this fandom, if you have views that are similar, or if you have the complete opposite, he will bother you.

So yeah, this isn’t just about plagiarism, it’s also about harassment. I care more about the latter, to be honest, so I’ve paid attention. I’ve stopped writing meta because of him, but I’m not going to ignore the blatant crap he’s continuing to pull. He is a gaslighting sonofabitch and he makes us all think we’re paranoid. We aren’t.