#apologies if this has been done before I haven’t seen one for tma so

[enteragoodnamehere]

okay I've been seeing these around and I wanted to do one for the TMA cast. here's a random wheel (link) featuring every character I can remember with a speaking role + a couple extras who don't speak but are still important to the plot or that I thought would be funny

[ghostbustermelanieking]

ok, before the last 3 episodes of tma, i wanna talk about the foremost continuing arc of season 5 -- this being jon and martin's kill bill/jon-smiting-people arc. it's been present in at least 14 episodes this season (by my count, maybe more), and considering it was brought up as recently as 194 and 197, i absolutely think it's gonna play a present role in the final three episodes. and while i have absolutely NO idea where it's going, i am interested to see how it plays out.

let's consider the progression of the arc throughout the season

165-166: jon is pushed to anger and kills the not-sasha. martin is impressed, while jon feels initially ashamed, but he's encouraged to continue this in a cycle of revenge by martin and helen

168: jon refuses to kill oliver banks, despite martin's encouragements, because he doesn't feel oliver deserves it

169: jon takes them on a detour in order to kill jude perry. he and martin disagree on this, martin refuses to decide, and jon ultimately chooses to do it. jude insists he is "not better than [her]." killing jude doesn't help the people trapped in this domain

171: jon finds and kills jared hopworth, also for revenge. jared is more or less willing. killing jared does not help the people in his domain

173: martin wants jon to smite the avatar in the darkness domain because they are torturing children. he changes his mind when he sees it's callum brodie. martin and jon have a tense conversation about this issue

174: martin wants jon to smite simon and jon refuses. martin accuses jon of only smiting avatars that have hurt him. jon says he feels that killing these avatars is immoral and that he thinks "it just makes [him] worse." martin apologizes for egging him on but then says he'll "keep [his] apology" when jon says he started it

182: breekon requests for jon to kill him and jon agrees

184: jon runs across jordan kennedy and tries to help him by turning him into an avatar. jordan is unhappy but doesn't want to go back to being tortured

185: the inspector who arrested elias reappears. jon asks martin to decide whether they should save him like they did jordan kennedy, and martin refuses as he thinks the inspector would abuse his power

186: martin decides if they can't turn the world back, that he'll have jon smite him so he isn't living off the fear and pain of others

187: jon kills helen, believing she will stop him from turning the world back

192/193: jon and martin ascend the panopticon and discuss smiting jonah, but find themselves unable to because it means jon would take his place

194: martin and jon argue over whether jon should take jonah's place. jon believes he should, and wants to use his power to make sure the people he believes deserve it are punished. martin disagrees. he says that jon wasn't supposed to enjoy killing avatars as much as he did

196-197: the possibility of jon smiting annabelle is heavily discussed. martin insists he will. annabelle wonders about the possibility. jon nearly does it but stops to keep martin from being dropped. he ultimately decides to let annabelle leave

there is no way this arc is done. the argument that jon and martin have is very heavily rooted in this issue, for one, and we are almost definitely going to hear that argument discussed -- jon says they'll discuss martin leaving with annabelle, and this argument is the crux of that reason.

additionally, we've seen a lot of interesting progression from jon and martin both since 174, which could've been the end of that arc. martin somewhat denies his role in the smiting (re: encouraging jon) in 174, but he basically contradicts this in 194 when he says jon wasn't supposed to enjoy it, which goes against what he says in 166. (this could be because martin hadn't actually seen jon smite anyone yet, but he doesn't seem bothered by jon "enjoying" the smiting before then.) martin's role has gotta be addressed. and jon smites breekon and helen, tries to smite annabelle, and turns jordan into an avatar despite more or less saying he's going to stop in 174 -- and yes, this is absolutely a result of the situation he's in each time, and i don't think its immoral (he is absolutely trying to do the right thing in all of these situations except maybe annabelle, which is incredibly complicated), but it still goes against what he says in 174. there seems to be a throughline of jon grappling with his powers throughout s5, and debating his role in killing jonah and becoming the eye's pupil is part of this -- and i bet it is going to come back in the form of "should jon and the others decide the fate of multiple roles" and what their responsibility is there. neither of jon or martin's individual roles in this arc feel finished, and they're going to have to address their disagreement over this in 194.

(to clarify: i'm not saying jon and martin are bad people, or anything like that! i think they're both struggling with their role in this and how they can do the right thing, but i think their disagreements about this, and the individual roles and decisions they've made, are gonna have to be addressed somehow)

also -- and i don't think this is a red herring, it seems entirely too important to be a one off -- martin's decision to have jon smite him feels like it has to come back up. as far as we know, jon doesn't know yet, and it feels entirely too significant to be something that never gets brought up again. even if it doesn't actually end up happening, i feel like it might come into play somehow throughout this.

i have no idea where this arc is going, but it's a very interesting one to me. i'd put money on the fact that it'll come back up in these last 3 eps -- i'd be floored if it didnt. and since i haven't seen this point discussed a lot in this last act, i thought i'd make a post about it. i'm interested to see how it all plays out.

tl;dr: the arc of jon and martin smiting avatars and using jon's archivist powers have been very prevalent this season, and the arc doesn't feel finished; i think its going to be very relevant in the last 3 episodes of tma

[equalseleventhirds]

I haven’t seen much of the show anymore mostly because I’m not really interested in TMA anymore and because the show’s writing in the whole trauma areas is really triggering to me as someone who is mentally ill and has trauma. Can we talk more about this shows’ abuse apologism? I hate how the show constantly blames characters like Jon, Anges or Micheal for being monsters as if it was their choice when they were 1/4

Obviously being manipulated against their will or had no other choice but to lose their humanity for the sake of their own survival. I hate how the writing in S5 is making Jon turn into this manipulative abusive asshole simply because “he’s a monster now” by taking people’ humanities away and guilt tripping them or going as far as to attack someone simply because they were in a panic about their own child only to then insult them. He’s even compared to his own abusers Elias and Jude. 2/4

3/4 Elias who gaslighted, groomed, and manipulated Jon into causing the fucking apocalypse and ended up giving Jon a serious mental fucking break down is being compared to Jon who is a trauma survivor or would be, if arguably, the show was written better. Does no one remember the end of season four including the show’s own writer??? 3/4

How did no one look over this writing and see how potentially dangerous it was to actual trauma survivors when there’s already a stigma surrounding them about all trauma survivors being likely to become abusers themselves? Comparing trauma survivors, yes even a horror setting, to their own abusers is fucking dangerous. Also, to anyone defending Jon in S5 simply because he was “traumatized”, just because you’re traumatized doesn’t give you an excuse to be an abusive dickhead to other people. 4/4 

hey anon, this was kiiiiiind of a lot to sort of throw at me? i sort of wish you had made your own post, because this is 0% related to the things i have talked about, but i’m gonna. try to address it.

because i think you’re wrong.

i don’t think the writing of tma blames jon, agnes, OR michael for what happened to them. i think it is very, very explicitly clear that none of them are to blame. some characters blame them, but the actual narrative takes a hard fucking line that they are not to blame for their abusers’ actions, and this is reiterated multiple times.

also i’m... not sure when you think jon was compared to elias and jude? like, jude did this whole pleading ‘you’re just like me pls don’t kill me’ thing but that was absolute villainous bullshit, and aside from it being stated a bunch that jon is NOT jonah, ppl don’t....... talk abt them???

i also don’t think jon in s5 is abusive? i’m not really sure where you get that idea. jon in s5 is dealing with a lot and occasionally snaps at people or makes bad choices, but he isn’t abusive. as someone who survived a fuckton of mental & emotional abuse, hearing jon called abusive is. hm. not great.

the two instances you are (i think?) bringing up are what he did to jordan kennedy and that time he yelled at one of helen’s victims? with jordan, jon was trying to help him. he did not ‘take away his humanity’; jordan did not become inhuman, any more than jon or martin would now be ‘inhuman’. he gave him some power and awareness he did not have before, because he wanted to help jordan stop suffering, and once jordan realized what this meant, jon offered to undo what he had done if jordan wanted it. he gave him a choice, a tough choice, but literally the entire world is in a tough situation. my abusers certainly did not attempt to give me agency or power.

with helen’s victim, jon was in an even tougher situation; he had just been pulled out of a statement which we know is jarring for him, he’d just (temporarily, but still) lost martin, his only friend in this hellscape, and helen was there next to him, needling him and making things worse. helen’s victim reached out to physically touch him, and jon panicked and snapped at her not to touch him. other than that he spent that scene with her offering to help and apologizing for the situation she was in. that is not abuse! him yelling at someone when his personal boundaries are encroached upon by a stranger, and then immediately trying to help her is not abuse! what the actual absolute fuck, anon.

i know you said you haven’t been listening to the show, so i really really hope that both of those incidents you didn’t actually listen to, only got through hearsay, bcos jon being an abusive

[aflyingcontradiction]

The Magnus Archives Relisten: Episode 78 - Distant Cousin

Jon: I… er…We… we didn’t…

What is Jon starting to say here before he stops and goes on to read the statement instead? 'We didn't know'?

It’s weird to think about people who knew you as a child. You change so much, and when you talk to them again, they’re not talking to you. They’re talking to someone else, someone you used to be. The person they think they’re seeing has been dead for years, but they didn’t see the change. They’re looking at a complete stranger, and they have no idea. - Statement of Lawrence Moore

a) Yeah, yeah, that sounds about right. Though I've only really had that experience from the other end, actually. Meeting up with old friends and just ... finding a stranger in their place with whom every conversation is awkward. I suspect they felt the same about me, though, I just wouldn't have necessarily noticed. Also I've had that experience with myself, re-reading old diaries. Most of it is all 'Okay, yeah, that's clearly me' but every once in a while I stumble across a moment of 'WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?' and I'm ... not a fan. At all. Not that the changes between teenage!me and now!me haven't mostly been an improvement, but I don't like the concept of changing in ways I can't perceive except in hindsight, can't even remember going through until I see them in writing and sure as fuck can't steer. b) I like the connection they make here between the Stranger and just ... the experience of growing and changing as a person. It's actually really quite unsettling!

He looked at me for a long, off-putting second as a wide smile crept across his face. “I know it’s been a long time, Lawrence,” he said, “but surely you haven’t forgotten your cousin Carl?”

The reaction here implies (at least to me) that the Not!Them doesn't necessarily KNOW in advance who the person that knows them for what they are (that is, their ACTUAL victim, the person whose fear they feed off) is? Hence the smile growing wider.

I could feel panic beginning to rise in my chest, and I started asking everyone who might know Carl, and all of them told me the same thing. When my aunt gave me a withering glare for asking who her son was, I had to leave.

I'm really glad that they didn't draw this scene out any more than that because at this point it was actually becoming genuinely hard to listen. I can deal with and sometimes actively enjoy being unsettled in a fear sense (otherwise I wouldn't be into TMA in the first place). But being unsettled in a second-hand embarrassment sense (as was clearly triggered in me by the scene of everyone at the wedding silently judging this poor guy because in their minds he was either having a break-down or playing a stupid prank) ... yeah, I can't handle that very well.

Neither of us said a word. He just stared at me, smile still wide and something twinkling in his eyes that might have been amusement. Or triumph. He showed no desire to make any sort of conversation, and I was too terrified to say anything at all.

Oh god, this isn't pretty. Not at all. Nope.

Standing there was another man I’d never seen before. He was black, dressed in a crisp white shirt with the sleeves rolled up, and a thin necktie.

... and I completely missed that Adelard Dekker is black. I don't like how my mind glosses over that and settles on default-white, I'll have to work on that.

We placed it [the big box] down in the middle of the living room, and I instinctively went to lift the lid. I caught a brief glimpse of dark, varnished wood before he slammed it down, almost trapping my hand, and shook his head once. “It’s not for you,” he said.

This isn't Dekker being rude, is it? This is Dekker protecting Lawrence from being Webbed as well as Strangered.

I didn’t return to my house until the next morning. Dekker’s blue van was gone, and in its place was another one, dirty white. There was something printed on the side, but I couldn’t make it out under the grime. I watched two men in overalls carry that same box out of my house, load it up, and drive away.

Breekon and Hope, obviously, but I really wonder how exactly they got this "job" and also I'd love to know the exact trajectory of this table before it ends up in the Archive.

Sasha (recording): Hello! I see you! Show yourself! Not!Sasha (recording): Hello? I see you! I see you! Jon: And now I see you!

Oh god, this is so good! Just. The juxtaposition. The 'seeing' thing re: the Eye and Jon. Also it's a pretty important character moment - I think this is the moment that Jon first decides to stop being passive and take the fight to them. Well, Not!Them, I suppose.

Jon: Yes…. Yes. And I’m… I’m sorry. About everything. Martin: J-Jon… look, are you –

Okay, yeah, I mean, if a person I knew was obviously tying up loose ends by way of apology and then making sure they are completely alone, I would be genuinely wondering whether I'll ever see them again alive. Martin's got good reasons to be reluctant to leave.

Jon: I don’t know if destroying this is going to kill that thing… but I am damn sure it’s going to hurt.

Oh god, this is such a stupid decision. Jon literally JUST READ the statement obviously describing the binding of the Not!Them to the table by Dekker. And even without knowing about the Fourteen, he's got enough information to know the table is related to spiders and webs and shit and the Not!Them isn't. Jesus, Jon, what are you doing? I mean, yeah, you're all 'VENGEANCE GRAH!' for understandable reasons, but there's no need to be so STUPID about it!

Michael: That was very stupid.

YES! YES IT WAS!

My impression of this episode

Oh god, there's a lot going on here. First of all, the story of the cousin was disturbing in multiple ways, both the fun horror one that I came here for and the less-fun one (as previously mentioned, there are various scenes in it that set off my "Hiding under blankets and sticking my fingers in my ears until the awkward bit is done" reflex and fighting that was actually quite difficult). And then - well - seeing Jon genuinely fucking FURIOUS and ready to kill, not in self-defense but in revenge, is interesting! Of course, he ends up going about it in the dumbest fucking way and I honestly don't think there's a good explanation for Jon's complete brainfart here. But for me, that bit of rather weak writing is outweighed by the reappearance of Michael, who I love. so. much. So yeah, this is a pretty good episode, all things considered.