#anyways stan Jonathan

[uselessnbee]

ok now that some time passed i'm gonna be brave and say my opinion

the way this fandom became obsessed with the Will x Edd*e friendship was weird

"oh Edd*e would love Will's art🥺" "Edd*e calling Will 'Will the wise🥺'" you mean the things we associate with Mike and his love for Will?💀

"oh Will would love Edd*e!" "oh Edd*e would love Will!" Edd*e this! Edd*e that!

"if Will was there he would convince Edd*e to postpone the campaign for Lucas' game!" yeah Dustin and Mike tried that stop acting like they didn't what makes you think he would suddenly listen to Will?💀

like sure bro if it's an interesting friendship to you that's cool i wanted them to meet too but the way this fandom became truly completely obsessed was so weird like these bitches didn't even meet probably didn't even know about the other's existence and yall made it into such a big deal and the way yall made Edd*e almost "replace" Mike in some ways or whatever the fuck it was was just weird or the way some people were acting like Edd*e would be Will's big brother figure as if he doesn't already have Jonathan who is also much better than Edd*e could ever be.. it was just too much ...i understand people wondering and enjoying exploring their potential dynamic but that level of obsession did not and still does not make sense to me

(especially because in my opinion they would not be close. Edd*e would throw food or have some of his stupid comments and especially the way he acted about Lucas' game, if Will saw that he would be done with his ass and he sure as hell would not love him like an older brother)

[lunar-years]

Sorry to be a hater for a second but st4 truly was so foul. Imagine them trying to convince us the Scooby teen gang included EDDIE while Jonathan was just some other random guy…….. and people bought into it……….

[jonathanbyersphd]

Ngl it's bonkers to me that Nancy lists all of Jonathan's best qualities in 4x01 and some people still think that man is the devil

[soniclion92]

I beg the 52.7% of people who voted that Steve told Jonathan to take Nancy home to please pick up some media literacy and stop pretending that Steve is some sweet angel whose never done anything wrong in his life for the love of god 😭

[calliecopper]

Been getting back into Stranger Things recently and this is probably a hot fucking take but Nancy and Steve works 100x better than Nancy and Jonathan romantically in my humble opinion.

Stranger Things is clearly a show that leans heavily into 80's archetypes and cliches. One of the classic cliches is the popular/smart girl dating the jock guy, but then she falls in love with the loner underdog. I feel like season 1 definitely hinted at this being a possibility, but what I really loved was that they didn't actually do it. At the end of the season, Nancy gives Jonathan a kiss on the cheek, and then he walks away, and Nancy goes to sit next to Steve. It felt almost like a final goodbye to the potential romantic feelings that could've been there. It directly goes against what you'd expect the series to do, like season 1 actually does a lot, especially with the teens.

Two teenagers having sex? They should die while the smart "not like other girls" girl lives to fight the monster, right? No. The teenagers live, and the smart friend dies without anybody there to witness it.

The loner dude and the smart/popular girl are sharing a bed? There should be some tension there, right? Nope. Nancy is fucking traumatized, and she just doesn't want to feel alone; she's bonded with Jonathan through trauma, and in that moment romantic and sexual feelings are nowhere near her mind, she's simply seeking out comfort in somebody who made her feel safe in a moment of need.

There are more examples of this, how the show both honors 80's cliches while also subverting expectations. But then season 2 rolls around, and things change.

Obviously, Steve, as a character, subverts the typical 80's jock douche cliche that he very easily could've been. He has undergone the most character development and change of any character in this series, and it's clearly served well as he's now a fan favorite. This process did begin in season 2.

But season 2 also gave us the beginning of Nancy and Jonathan's romantic arc. Now I'll admit, 14 year old me was SCREAMING for them to kiss back in 2017, but as I've grown older I feel more and more icky about it. It plays right into what fans were expecting to happen, even when the characters themselves - to me - seemed to display little to no romantic interest in each other until Murray outright says it.

Nancy and Jonathan are victims of a very cheap trick to build romantic tension between two characters- outside influences and characters.

The woman after Jonathan is arrested who says that only love can make somebody be so crazy, even though Jonathan was completely justified in beating the shit out of Steve because he was being an asshole, and was not at all implied to be an act of jealousy based in feelings for Nancy.

Mike asking Nancy if she likes Jonathan, which is a question that really seems to come out of nowhere and feels like a very unlikely thing for Mike to have asked given the current situation.

Then, the most egregious of these examples, Murray telling the two characters that they have romantic tension. This breaks the very basic writing rule of "show don't tell" in the most literal way.

The only reason Nancy and Jonathan ever had tension is because of that 80's cliche, and outside people telling the characters they liked each other.

Then, you have Nancy and Steve. I find their romance in season 1 to be incredibly compelling in multiple complex and fascinating ways.

These characters are never TOLD to have tension with each other. They're never INFLUENCED to like each other. From before the show starts, they're already seeing each other. It's clear that both characters actually like each other just because they like each other, and not because of shared trauma or outside influences. A fascinating aspect of this is Steve's typical jock douche demeanor that has Nancy questioning Steve's intentions with her.

The show sets up the idea of Steve "corrupting" Nancy through Barbara. "This isn't you," she tells Nancy, right before Nancy goes upstairs to sleep with Steve, which has been set up as something she's hesitant to do. It's very clear that Nancy is petrified that Steve is only interested in her for sex, and after she does sleep with him it's clear that she feels a sense of shame or upset. With the 80's cliche, this probably would be the case. Steve would've only used her for her body, then she would run into Jonathan's arms and be treated with the respect and love she deserves. But then, Steve is still interested in her. He actively defends her against his friends when they're teasing her about Barbara. He's shown to be worried about her multiple times between Barbara's disappearance and when he finds her with Jonathan.

Steve is given redeeming qualities that show how much he genuinely cares for Nancy, even if he is somewhat consumed with his own woes. Then, on the flip side, we see genuine conflict that feels a little less forced than that between Nancy and Jonathan. Steve is self-consumed and more concerned with getting in trouble than giving the police valuable information about Barbara's disappearance. This is incredibly believable for his character at this point. Then, when he thinks Nancy is cheating, he's a complete douche to both Nancy and Jonathan, and rightly gets his shit kicked in for it.

But then he shows genuine remorse for his actions in helping clean up the theater, and then going to apologize to JONATHAN. Not only to Nancy in order to get back into her good graces, but to the other person he GENUINELY hurt because he GENUINELY wants to right that wrong.

Now this isn't a "Jonathan is a horrible character" party, he definitely is a good character, and Steve is not "better" just because he's a fan favorite.

I have a difficult time articulating my thoughts clearly and stringing them together to make them coherent, but my point is:

I feel like Nancy and Jonathan would've worked way better as platonic best friends bonded through trauma. I feel like this would've allowed Jonathan to operate more as his own character instead of being turned into "Nancy's sidekick" for most of the series. It also would've allowed Nancy to just have a friend even after Barbara's death.

I also feel like Nancy and Steve would've worked better as a sort of "slow burn, right person wrong time" romantic relationship. Nancy is no doubt traumatized and feels guilt for Barbara's death, which happened to take place while she was with Steve. The basis of the Nancy/Steve fight that ultimately ends their relationship is that Nancy doesn't feel like she can just move on. To paraphrase, Nancy is saying "Pretending like we're in love, like we're just dumb teenagers at a dumb party, like we didn't kill Barb, is bullshit." Then Steve, still being a bit of the self-consumed guy he is, focuses only on the "like we're in love" piece. "You don't love me?" he asks. And I think that this just pisses Nancy off. I'm telling you that we killed Barbara, that I can't live with myself and this guilt, and you're worried about our relationship? "It's bullshit."

I don't necessarily think that Nancy didn't love Steve. I think that she simply wasn't in the right place to love ANYBODY. And I think he was still too immature for Nancy to maintain a relationship with him.

Nancy can't be with Steve because she's simply too consumed with her guilt, and Steve is too consumed with maintaining a sense of normalcy to confront that guilt head on. She NEEDED Jonathan in that moment, because he shared that guilt in feeling responsible for Will's disappearance. He had just as much a desire to burn Hawkins Lab to the ground. It wasn't until Steve was FORCED to grow up in order to protect Dustin, Max, and Lucas that he finally let go of that desire to be normal.

I think both Nancy and Steve needed those two-ish seasons to grow and heal for them to even consider reigniting that flame. Then, in season 4, when Nancy sees Steve as somebody finally willing to do the hard thing and be an adult, I think she finally starts to consider allowing herself to love him again.

So, in my ideal version of events, Nancy and Jonathan would've been really close platonic friends, and Nancy and Steve would've been tragic lovers who simply couldn't find the right time for each other.

Anyways that's my word vomit. Don't take this as a ship war thing cause that's stupid I think everything is good I just wanted to express my preferences

[rotisseries]

[sbd-laytall]

Personally, I think Jonathan's best moment in Smallville is when he beats up Lionel and almost chokes him out, but that's just me.

[bylertruther]

smth abt eddie telling dustin to look after the little sheep -> s5 is going to return to s1 form -> dustin tells mike in s1 that his obliviousness blows his mind -> the whole painting & confession & obvious general fiasco that is willelmike -> dustin's going to have to put on his bob the builder / "the world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes" sherlock holmes hat and get involved

[basil-like-the-leaf]

my friend the other day

[wheelercore]

The more I rewatch of s4 I'm convinced Nancy haters just hate fanon Nancy

[lunar-years]

I've been living in such a nice bubble of the internet (Ted Lasso fandom) where pretty much everyone at least likes the characters I love that I forgot what it's like out here as a Stranger Things Jonathan Byers fan ✌️ all i can say I'm glad we're not getting s5 until 2026 (probably) I'm no longer emotionally strong enough for this.

[jonathanbyersphd]

I need to see images of my boy before I burn this site to the ground

[misunhye]

DREAM( )SCAPE

HIGHLIGHTS

when she first heard the demo, she didn’t think it’d be her favorite song ever 😭 but she ended up really liking it!

misun wrote a little bit of box and unknown !!

and so her ranking goes unknown > breathing > box > smoothie > icantfeelanything > carat cake 🤭

her hair was blonde this era!! she had a moment where she had pink hair ?? but then it was back to blonde so like??

she did multiple tiktoks with other idols !! txt’s taehyun, kiss of life’s julie, illit’s yunah and minju. even idols that weren’t promoting like aespa’s karina

she was on the k-star next door with jaemin, jeno, chenle and jisung 🎉 she loves jonathan it was so fun

she met zb1’s hanbin who she knew already bc she was the one who got chenle to watch LOL she was also a sung hanbin stan ^_^

misun was on eunchae’s star diary LOL it was fun misun had to do most of the talking and she insisted eunchae called her unnie. and like of course eunchae had to say misun and chaewon looked like twins…

eunchae: misun unnie, you and my chaewon unnie look alike

misun: … i have no clue what youre talking about *literally clueless*

eunchae: ??? … okay anyways

okay and when they had their fansign (240407 withmuu fansign), misun had like ?? sports gear on. don’t ask me what sport but you can see it below !! ↓

misun did dream vs dream with jisung!! FINALLY. jeno and her will be next, trust. (insert link here when i post it…)

she also went on inssadong sulzzi with lee chaeyeon!! she had sm fun and she loves interacting with other idols

she wanted to go on jaefriends but figured sm would’ve told her no

she also kinda hinted to a nct xs comeback?? she posted multiple pics of the girls in the practice room and studio on her instagram story but no comeback news yet

she’s super excited for tds3!!! she enjoyed spoiling the setlist with chenle

smoothie era was rather eventful for her? she tried her best not to go on social media and mostly just interacted with fans through weverse. it was her safe space

as soon as smoothie promos were over, though, she went silent lol per usual

surprisingly no headline worthy dating rumors this era!!

icantfeelanything teasers

SMOOTHIE OUTFITS

PHOTOCARDS

LEFT TO RIGHT: icantfeelanything, smoothie

POPULAR FANSITE SHOTS

LINES

icantfeelanything

Erased from my mind [ 0:50 — 0:52 ]

두려움을 딛어

자신을 믿어 [ 0:59 — 1:02 ]

Erased from my mind [ 1:40 — 1:41 ]

Smoothie

가차 없이 비틀어 논 다음

삼켜 sip, watch how I blend it up [ 0:15 — 0:19 ]

Smoothie, smoothie, smoothie

Smoothie, smoothie, smoothie

가볍게 씹어 삼켜

Smoothie, smoothie

Smoothie, smoothie [ 0:53 — 1:01 ]

Shower that in all this ice

결국엔 녹아 fade out [ 1:15 — 1:20 ]

거칠게 mess up, yeah [ 1:50 — 1:53 ]

달콤함만 기대한 적 없어 난 [ 2:26 — 2:30 ]

(가볍게 씹어 삼켜 smoothie) [ 2:53 — 2:56 ]

BOX

Nobody lockin' me up [ 0:37 — 0:39 ]

더 자유롭게

멈추지 않을래, ooh [ 2:06 — 2:12 ]

Carat Cake

넌 못 감춰 saying "Wow!"

외쳐 asking how [ 0:22 — 0:25 ]

That's a carat cake [ 1:01 — 1:02 ]

Oh, 손에 ���힌 그 순간 [ 1:35 — 1:36 ]

투명한 그 빛 hit the heart likе clink [ 1:58 — 2:00 ]

UNKNOWN

Why'd you ever doubt it?

No never be scared of trying [ 0:27 — 0:30 ]

Dive in, dive in, into the unknown [ 1:01 — 1:04 ]

다시 널 찾아가 into the unknown [ 1:10 — 1:12 ]

Don't change, let go

Be brave, be strong

But take it easy, no rush

I know you got it [ 1:58 — 2:05 ]

But take it easy, no rush

I know you got it [ 2:48 — 2:51 ]

(I know you try) [ 3:20 — 3:23 ]

Breathing

아주 당연했던 감각, oh

잊어버린 것만 같아, oh [ 0:36 — 0:41 ]

I've been searching for another meaning

나아갈 수 있을까 [ 0:55 — 1:01 ]

I know I'm no good without you

Baby, can you stay all night? [ 2:50 — 2:53 ]

따스해

마주 잡은 손 느낄 때

And my heart starts beating [ 3:55 — 4:04 ]

[bylerjancytruther]

you say steve should’ve kicked the shit out of jonathan is just about the funniest thing i’ve ever read. you act like jonathan didn’t ALREADY beat the shit out of him.

Okay doing this again but I’m removing Steve just to spice things up, if you HAD to kill of one of these characters who would it be?

[hexhomos]

Sorry, I'm asking here because asks aren't on your doomreed account, but do you have any fic recs for them ? You and vinnies art have intrigued me 😭 they both seem like such wet cats in different ways, and I love that

help i didnt know asks were off fixed that now thank you... I have two fics i keep in my back pocket as like, exemplary distillations of their whole thing (one in college vs one of their usual superhero stuff,) these are;

Supersymmetry and Night Blooms

Rly good examples of their usual shenanigans, the second one is directly based on a canon comic issue that *feels* like fanfic by a prolific yaoi author, the first is set in a modern-time re-imagining of the fantastic four where they meet in a supergenius internship thinktank for gifted youngsters. There's other fics that are good but i think they might be super confusing without canon context! which leads me to my second point. After you read these fics...

A lot, and i mean A LOT of official doomreed stuff feels straight up like fanfic. Either because its so beautifully woven or insane in concept (doctor doom points a gun at the real life Jack Kirby and Stan Lee to get himself written back into reed's life in his 3rd ever classic appearance, in the 60's, THAT'S the bodyswap issue)

or because the literal authors themselves come out to say 'they're soulmates' or 'they're in love' and Im talking abt this:

(^joseph culp, the first ever doom actor from 1994)

(^fantastic four (2019))

I've got even more stuff under the cut!! AND recs!!! CLICK! v v v

(^jonathan hickman, author of arguably the best FF saga & Secret Wars (2015)!!!)

(^Cantwell, author of the Doctor Doom comic!!)

These are excerpts from the canon fantastic four book, DOOMGATE:

There's even an RPG INSTRUCTION MODULE based on the idea of an earth where Reed & Victor partner up in college, Reed dies a tragic death (via their lab experiments) and Victor assumes such a traumatized widow role in his honor that he grows up to be a golden hero and protector of earth LOL (still a bit nuts):

This is not even to touch on the breadth of all their comic issues and little moments together. Victor canonically delivers Reed's second child and he chooses her name! Shes treated like his child too and calls him uncle doom!!

...Victor even asks Reed out on candlelit dinner dates for a yearly Latverian holiday!

In fact, that's the great starter doom/reed issue i keep recommending: read [ My Dinner With Doom right here. ]

If you enjoy that, check out my [ broader post guide for doomreed reading. ]

Still on the fence? try out these single comic issues:

Doctor Doom:

*Fantastic Four (1961) annual 2 (Classic origin of Doom issue) *Some call it MAGIC (the introduction of Doom's struggle w/ the devil for his mother's soul)

Doomreed:

*Marvel Two-in-One (2017) annual 1 *Marvel Two-in-One (2017) #11 (2nd fic i linked is based on this!!!!!!!!!) *'Duel Intentions' short story *Doom 2099 (2019) *Fantastic Four #700 special *Shame Itself (noncanon satire mini)

Anyway I've had a lot of fun reading these series generally and their big, year-spanning arcs are incredible. People hype up Secret Wars for a reason, Hickman's fantastic four builds up a really compelling doom/reed epic of cosmic divorce proportions. And its about love! And Forgiveness!

[buddiesronance]

st*bin stan’s projecting onto robin by wanting her to be mean to jonathan is soo crazy 💀 like let’s be fr, robins gonna meet him and realize they actually have things in common

like this is just proof that you guys just revolve robins character around st*ve instead of her being her own person 🤷‍♀️

anyways hoping for a robin and jonathan friendship next season bc of how angry it’ll make ppl 🙏