#anyway that's what I love about Leyton

[spooky-feline]

No but seriously when Lucas asked if he could read next to Peyton while she worked on her art is everything I want in any relationship, romantic or platonic. The being together and sharing space while doing our own thing is .. chef's kiss

[inspector-montoya-fox]

hi how have you been?

[maya-matlin]

hiiiii ashton <333 I know we've talked about it before but I recently was on a video and saw some comments that angered me and you know I ship leyton and brulian too but I just wanna hear your thoughts because you always give the best ones!! why do you personally prefer brucas over leyton? why don't you ship leyton? and what do you think about the comments from people saying how leyton were always supposed to be endgame even though s2&3 it certainly didn't feel that way!! and about the comments saying that chopia breaking up had nothing to do with it even though they broke up before brucas actually got back together and they could've very easily not put them together after chopia broke up if they wanted to lol I'm just very curious about your thoughts and don't really wanna discuss it in messenger tbh this is easier so I get all your opinions lol I love you so much and you always give the best responses and answers when I ask you things!! 💞💞💞

I literally don't, but thank you for saying that 💙💙 First things first, I did ship Lucas and Peyton in the past. So on some level, I understand the appeal because I also fell for them when I started watching One Tree Hill. Truth be told, one day I just snapped out of it. Before season 6 even premiered, I was watching my season 5 DVD and finding myself frustrated with the LP story line while appreciating the dynamic between Brucas. Anyways, since then I've watched every episode multiple times and analyzed both by myself and sometimes with others why exactly I don't root for Leyton and prefer Brucas. To me, they're representative of a lot of tropes that will never be my favorite. Meant to be from the pilot couples are always going to be a hard sell. The chemistry had better be something special and the ongoing story needs to be more than, "I immediately know you better than everyone else in your life after having a handful of conversations." There are always exceptions to this rule. Sometimes I fall for the ship fast (Stelena, sorry). Other times it takes until nearly the entire first season or until the second (Ephram/Amy from Everwood, Max/Liz from OG Roswell, Spelivia) for me to get past the beginning and appreciate what the couple is at the heart of it. Needless to say, this sums up Leyton (derogatory). So much of their connection is told to the audience rather than shown. From day one, it's automatically clear that this is the couple to root for. Their only real obstacle, Nathan, is a comically terrible, borderline abusive boyfriend, so the fact Lucas in early season 1 is the anti Nathan pushes him incredibly hard as Peyton's ideal match. Once Brucas starts up, there's an immediate difference in energy and chemistry. Both Lucas and Peyton take themselves so seriously. It's always deep feelings and angst and brooding and "oh, we want to be together, but the circumstances are just too hard." And meanwhile, it's only like episode 9. Brooke has deep feelings and her own insecurities, but on the outside she doesn't take life super seriously and is someone who acts rather than internalizing everything. Brooke's influence on Lucas's life feels like a breath of fresh air. Lucas begins to loosen up and see that there can be more to life than his preconceived ideas of how the world works and how everyone should be acting. On Lucas's end, he encourages Brooke to develop her intellectual side and see that she has so much more to offer than being the life of the party and someone who gets validation from sleeping with a lot of guys. Lucas is the first person Brooke wants to get serious with. Even better, this is a story line we actually get to see play out. When Lucas and Brooke talk about what they like about each other, it all tracks because we've been watching their attraction bloom and seeing how in a lot of ways, they're at their best together. Sorry, this is getting long. This is all solely based on season 1. By the end of the season, Lucas and Peyton cheat for the first time. This sadly becomes a pattern for them. Brooke is emotionally devastated. And though Lucas immediately seems to feel guilt over hurting Brooke, it takes him time to see how far he's strayed from the type of person he wants to be.

Season 2 is a massive gamechanger for Brucas. This is the first time they're truly able to be friends. Without the expectation of a relationship, Brooke and Lucas are able to connect on a deeper level. Yet again, this is something shown to us rather than told. This is the kind of relationship both took the time to develop. Much like in season 1, Lucas encourages Brooke to invest in her more intellectual, soulful side. Lucas himself works on being more selfless, taking the time to improve as a person. Unlike when Lucas pined for Peyton while she was dating Nathan and embarked on an affair during his first relationship with Brooke, this time Lucas allows Brooke's relationship with Felix to play out without any interference while still being a friend. Lucas is aware of his own feelings, but he also knows how badly he hurt Brooke in the past and has no reason to think a second chance is even a possibility. When Lucas kisses Brooke after months of close friendship and opening up to each other emotionally (albeit with Brooke understandably on guard post cheating and Lucas hiding his rediscovered feelings), it feels earned. The third season is a mixed bag. At its best, season 3 Brucas is a perfect mix of seasons 1 and 2 Brucas. Both seem to be equally emotionally invested in the relationship working out and view each other as basically their endgame. But the fun and the lightheartedness exist, as well. Brooke is still someone who brings light and fun to Lucas's life. On Lucas's end, it starts to get murky as the show gets closer and closer to the shooting episode. After spending so much time veering away from the possibility of Lucas and Peyton together with emphasis on Lucas's love for Brooke, the strength of the Brooke/Peyton friendship and even how Lucas and Peyton are actually able to be platonic, healthy friends themselves, everything gets destroyed so that the show can return to Leyton. On the one hand, it's not as though it's totally out of nowhere or implausible because again, the narrative went so hard in Leyton's favor during the first season. But at the same time, it doesn't feel believable to me when it finally happens. Lucas seems to flip flop from getting past his breakup with Brooke to declaring Peyton is the one he wants next to him when his dreams come true in mere seconds. The writers LOVE to make Lucas in denial about his feelings for Peyton. Past the first season, we don't get Lucas pining for Peyton. We just don't. We got Lucas pining for Brooke during season 2 and part of 3 and even Lucas wanting Lindsey back after she leaves him at the altar, but for the lion's share of LP's history, it's Peyton desperately wanting Lucas and somewhat being willing to sacrifice everything just for the chance of being with him. So because of this, Lucas becomes an almost passive love interest where he's told over and over again what he should want and what his true feelings are until he just kind of.. says fine, choosing Peyton. That alone is why I prefer Brucas. It's the more compelling story line and relationship. Plus, the chemistry.

And I hate to do it, but this vs this:

Chemistry is unpredictable, always up for debate, and shouldn't always be the deciding factor in what a person ships. My shipping preferences have been all over the place in this area. But when the writing is lacking and the chemistry isn't really selling the story either, these moments that are supposed to be powerful and come across as passionate somehow come across as phony and put on. In my opinion, Chad and Hilarie had buddy chemistry while Chad and Sophia had the passionate, in love type of chemistry due in large part to literally being in love and married in real life.

As a viewer, I really resent being told that Lucas was simply denying his true feelings for no other reason I can think of except maliciousness when he spent basically two and a half seasons wanting Brooke over Peyton. The romantic relationship with Lucas and Peyton during seasons 4 and 6 seems like the healthier option on the surface, but it comes back to how I feel about Lucas as a passive love interest and Peyton's arc being so wrapped up in whether or not she gets the guy. This is pretty much spelled out towards the end of season 3. During a conversation between Brooke and Peyton, Brooke confides in Peyton that during Lucas's absence she realized that she wasn't as reliant on his physical presence as she thought she'd be. From Brooke's perspective, all this means is that Brooke is somehow capable of loving and being happy independently of the man she loves. But on One Tree Hill, this is supposed to imply Brooke either doesn't truly love Lucas, is falling out of love with Lucas, or that Peyton loves Lucas more because she doesn't desire independence outside of him. It's a gross message to say the least. This brings me full circle, back to season 5. Between seasons, Lucas proposed to Peyton and broke off the relationship when she didn't accept his proposal. Objectively speaking, not the worst thing in the world and a valid thing to do if this is a deal breaker. But this causes the Lucas/Peyton relationship to be heavily imbalanced and in Lucas's favor over Peyton's. Lucas stops feeling like the kind of person who follows his heart and more this desperate guy who wants to marry someone to the point the bride doesn't actually matter. If I go along with the idea that Lucas was in love with Peyton throughout the intervening years, throughout season 5 and for the entirety of his romance with Lindsey, what does that say about Lucas? One, he's the kind of guy who is so out of touch with his own emotions that nothing he says should ever be trusted. Or two, he's an asshole and will willingly commit himself to another woman under false pretenses just because he didn't get what he wanted from his first choice on his terms. Peyton's love for Lucas is meant to be undying and unconditional, causing her to behave in such selfish, desperate ways. Lucas, on the other hand, proves that his affection for Peyton is very conditional. He's not willing to compromise. He doesn't want to wait around for Peyton to catch up with where he is.

And in the mean time, Lucas bouncing between Peyton and Lindsey actually means season 5 Brucas is a very good alternative for Lucas. It's all very unspoken, but the chemistry and the connection between Lucas and Brooke never goes away. Much like in season 2, the possibility of romance is very much off the table. Brooke returns to Tree Hill not to win Lucas back, but because she misses her hometown and sees herself settling down there. Because nothing is being pushed on either end, it's much easier for adult Lucas and adult Brooke to be friends in a way that's impossible for Lucas and Peyton. They're able to relate to each other outside of high school and their past romance. A flashback reveals that Lucas was the first person Brooke told that she wanted to have a baby. During the time Brooke is taking care of Angie, Lucas becomes the kind of person Brooke can depend on and lean on for emotional support. Even outside of season 5, there's a consistent theme of Lucas being the best, most selfless version of himself with Brooke. It's as though Brooke's influence in Lucas's life mixed with their season 1 history almost demands that Lucas be better when they're together. Both Brooke and Lucas are in the place where they're looking to settle down. In a moment that's kind of a contrast to season 3

Unlike in season 3 when Lucas was trying to fight for Brooke but kind of clueless when it came to working out what she wanted from him, this time Lucas realizes that no matter how strong Brooke seems to be, she needs him to show up for her. There will always be endless potential for season 5+ Brucas, in my opinion. Their strong bond and complementary desires for a future shine through even as the narrative reminds us over and over again that Peyton is the one who loves Lucas most and that anything that isn't about Peyton is merely "denial" or Lucas "hiding his heart." Anyways, Lucas literally fantasizes about marrying all of his major love interests, Brooke included. The dream sequence wants us to believe Brooke and Lucas want very different things, making them fundamentally incompatible. The entirety of seasons 5-9 disagrees with this, but Lucas still ends up with Peyton.

When it comes down to it, I don't like the people Lucas and Peyton are around each other. As friends, it's mostly okay. They certainly share common interests and Peyton lacks the trust issues Lucas's other girlfriends have considering she's always the other woman. But.. so much of their love story comes across as incredibly forced with so many holes in it. Their arc throughout the first six seasons does NOT hold water. Peyton isn't allowed to be a fully fleshed out person with goals that don't perfectly align with becoming Mrs. Lucas Scott. Lucas holds all the cards, resulting in him becoming far more selfish and almost childish in the way he acts like season 1 Lucas who is still butthurt his crush didn't want to commit to him after one make out session. Even in the final season, I don't see much if any growth. It's the final season for both characters and the show played out the beats of broken up Leyton, so they're put back together. So much of what happens between Lucas and Peyton is heavily reliant on the idea of everything coming full circle without any regard for how one or both have changed since then. Brucas doesn't have this problem. If nothing else, Brooke and Lucas's relationship goes through multiple changes, with each phase feeling much more mature and deeper than the one before. Even though their past and Brooke's trust issues are recurring problems, their actual dynamic always remains in the present.

As for your last question, I'll never know for sure what discussions were like behind the scenes circa seasons 2 and 3. But based on how season 2 played out, I think there's a very good chance the endgame shifted. The underlying tension and romantic affection between Lucas and Peyton was completely gone. Lucas realized he wanted to be with Brooke and never seemed to consider Peyton. Even Peyton, who has ambiguous moments that refer to possible feelings for Lucas even before the shooting, doesn't have this during the second season. She spends far more time pining for and loving Jake. When Peyton expresses displeasure over her relationship with Lucas, it's that he hasn't been the kind of friend that shows up for her emotionally. Lucas's response to this is to bring Jake back to town LOL. In terms of season 3, it gets confusing. Chad and Sophia didn't separate until multiple episodes into the first half of season 3. Meaning, the groundwork was already being laid for Brucas's failed friends with benefits/casual relationship to become a deeper romantic one even before Chad and Sophia split up. But at the same time, Lucas's friendship with Peyton was also being prioritized again with more references to their romantic past coming up outside of Brooke's insecurities. So with that in mind, it seems like LP was a possibility even as Brucas was rebuilding their relationship. However, I think the Chad/Sophia split permanently closed the door on any legitimate Brucas once their season 3 arc was completed. Personally, I don't think Peyton ending up with Lucas was set in stone until the end of season 3. Had Chad and Sophia never split up, I definitely think we would have seen another round of Brucas at some point because the chemistry alone would have demanded it. Plus, the gross producers capitalizing on the real life Chad/Sophia romance. In a universe where Chad and Sophia never broke up, my gut says Lucas ends up with Brooke. But nothing is 100%. To sum up my thoughts, I think there was a plan in place during season 1. I think another plan emerged during season 2. In season 3, the endgame was literally up for grabs. But Chad and Sophia's breakup sealed the deal.

I love you, too! I'm so sorry for making you read all this.

[zalrb]

Do you think Klaroline was a ship with an agenda?I'm convinced the only reason the writers decided to explore Klaroline was in order to get Caroline to shut up about correctly calling Damon out so they could push Delena forward. Like It's basically there so that when anyone wants to bring up Damon's abuse towards Caroline in the past, the show can just say "WELL what about Caroline and Klaus?!" You know, diminishing Caroline’s genuine dislike against Damon, by making her a hypocrite.

So annoying. Would love your thoughts

Honestly? No. Because the writers write Caroline's dialogue. They don't need to do something as elaborate as pair her with Klaus as well as give her lines calling out Damon so the fandom could call her a hypocrite, they could've just stopped giving her lines that called out Damon, which they eventually do in the later seasons anyway and she just becomes one of their champions. It's not like OTH for instance where Peyton kissed Lucas while he was with Brooke for a second time and Leyton got together essentially immediately after Brucas broke up and then suddenly there was a sex tape of Brooke and Nathan, which was clearly put in the show so Peyton wouldn't look too bad and Peyton could be like you slept with Nathan!

I just think KC was fan service.

[rigginsstreet]

Also (and this is so dumb that you don't even have to reply!) I LOVED your Peyton/Lucas analysis and wanted to add a couple more differences between them since their similarities are so clear. (One reason Leyton is my OTP - Lucas and Peyton get each other on such a deep level because of their 'yes, me too, I thought I was alone!' commonalities!) Anyway, for me the key difference between them is that Lucas is a little more cerebral---Peyton is obviously very bright, but she leads more with her heart than her head and makes decisions based more on how she feels that what she objectively THINKS, especially once she lets down the walls she had up in s1. So one difference stemming from that is that Lucas is more objective/rational/alert when it comes to understanding others ---e.g. seeing that Derek was a dangerous fraud while Peyton refused to believe it because her heart to like and trust her half-brother. The irony, of course, is that Lucas is clueless when it comes to understanding certain aspects of himself, but he's very alert and perceptive when it comes to what makes OTHER people tick (it's the writer in him!) and is more apt to objectively analyze while Peyton follows her instincts. It's also, though, why Peyton is usually more forgiving than Lucas---yes, objectively someone did something bad, but Peyton cares about them so wants them back in her life, while Lucas is more "that person is objectively wrong and I can't pretend otherwise." And we this difference manifest when Peyton learns she has such a high-risk pregnancy---Lucas calculates the risk and wants Peyton to rationally put her safety and health first while Peyton decides based on her instincts, emotions and hopes that she'll carry the pregnancy to term no matter what because she so deeply wants this and believes their baby will be fine.

i dont know that id say peyton is more forgiving... they both can hold a grudge. peyton not wanting to forgive haley after she came back from tour, peyton being unwilling to speak to ellie at first, and i think had it not been for the psycho derek prom attack it wouldve taken a LOT longer for her to get over the brooke and nathan sex tape

idk i see lucas and peyton on equal footing when it comes to forgiveness like they need to be mean and petty about it first and then theyll come around lol

[carmen-berzattos]

Hello friend,

Do tell us more about your thoughts on OTH.

I just rewatched Pretty Little Liars and I was thinking about rewatching OTH. I always preferred Leyton to Brucas but well...

And please don't delete!!!!

Ah yes. Leyton. The bane of my existence. The ship that infuriates and disappoints me like no other. Listen, I went into this re-watch of OTH remembering loving Brucas a lot more than Leyton. But considering that I was like 12 or 13 when I watched the first couple of seasons, I didn't think much of that preference. Probably some kind of bias because I've always loved Sophia Bush. A LOT. And I mean, who doesn't have you SEEN her?

But turns out, while yes maybe my 12 or 13 years old self didn't have very deep reasons for disliking Leyton, 27 years old me hates them because they honestly are just the worst as a couple.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm of the opinion that love triangles are the most infuriating plot device and trope known to humankind. Mainly because they are so overused to create contrived conflict that whatever interesting aspects that you can extrapolate from them are never really utilized. Think of all the love triangles you have consumed in media and name three, just three, that you have enjoyed through and through? You probably can't. And they honestly especially do NOT work in teen dramas. They're just the WORST.

BUT! I'll give the writers credit where credit is due. The love triangle works in the first season. See, love triangles are the most successful when they provide characters with interesting conflicts that enhance their characters, plays on their insecurities, or enlighten them with different ways of being and living. The best example that I can think of is Sawyer/Kate/Jack in Lost. While far from perfect, that triangle was so fucking compelling because the dynamics of the two couples were so distinct, and enhanced the individual dramas of each character. I can write a whole spiel about that, but that's not the point. The point is, the Brooke/Lucas/Peyton triangle in season 1 operates in a similar way. Lucas being caught in the middle of those two girls, Peyton who completely makes sense for him by being a person with similar tempremant and close to his personality that he can harmoniously live with, who he feels a strong connection with, vs. Brook who is unlike him in every way conceivable but loosens him up, teaches him how to have fun, and open his eyes to a whole new world, the world that he had JUST stepped into.

Now, OTH isn't complex, so Lucas's conflict here isn't, either, but basically the whole first season is just him juggling this change that happens in his world when he joins the basketball team, therefore overstepping his boundaries and crossing into a whole new world. Him being with Brooke, while being hung up on Peyton, making a horrible mistake and cheating on Brooke with Peyton, is pretty much presented as a low point. And an important one at that. This world he's stepping into is unfamiliar. The self he had carried before will no longer be safe and protected from tests, and most importantly, he will change. It is up to him what that change will look like. I think Lucas's character works so well (and I have a whole thing about how Lucas Scott is actually a well-written character especially in the first few seasons and how I feel very protective of him but that's not the point) because he reaches a breaking point of losing himself in that season. His arc is that of discovering that he can and in fact will make terrible mistakes, mistakes he never thought himself capable of, but he will make them anyways and he must find a way forward regardless of that imperfection.

For Brooke, the love triangle basically presents her with a new situation, one that propels her headfirst into character development. The show finds her as the popular girl who always got what she wanted but never got attached because love is uncool I guess. She finds herself suddenly in love for the first time. She feels unsure and insecure, and unclear about where to take this. Then suddenly her heart gets ripped out when she finds out that her BF and BFF cheated on her with each other. That revelation sets Brooke on a journey of growth very early on in the show. It's a cruel method, of course, but we all inevitably get hurt and learn from it.

And then, there's Peyton. Now. Here's the major problem. I'm not really sure that Peyton learns anything. And that, in fact, is a continuance theme and a major writing flaw. I don't think Peyton's character works. She doesn't learn anything this time, and she doesn't learn anything later on, and she pretty much stays stagnant throughout the show.

Now calm down, let me explain what I mean: After the fiasco of the love triangle in the first season, Peyton does tell Lucas that she can't be with him because she can't do this to Brooke. And that's great! But that doesn't really show much growth either. You would think afterwards there would be some character arc involving Peyton learning something. But that doesn't really happen. And that continues to be an issue. It lies dormant for season 2, mainly because the triangle fades into the background, and the show commits to a Brucas and Jeyton season, but that does come back later.

Now, Leyton in season 1 are solid as fuck. The writers do a good job of giving them good moments of connection and good scens. The actors have good chemistry. And they sell the relationship well. Even while watching Brucas, who are very fun together on screen, and I do think that Chad and Sophia have better chemistry with each other than any other pairing on the show, you do get the sense that Leyton is the Real Deal. And that makes you a little sympathetic towards them even as you go "DON'T DO IT" everytime they're in a scene together alone. And you can see them cheating from a mile away but still go FUCK that sucks, you guys kinda really really suck, but I get it.

The problem though? Leyton kinda disappear for season 2 and the majority of season 3. There is so little of them after that. Until Brooke and Lucas are back together. And there, RIGHT THERE, is my major problem with Leyton. Over and over again, they have this terrible pattern of only finding each other when Lucas is with other people. Actually, no scratch that. Peyton has a pattern of only remembering that she's in love with Lucas when he is with someone else. And that completely baffles me. Remember what I said about Peyton learning something from the experience of season 1? Yeah, she doesn't. It's season 3, Brooke and Lucas are happy together. And suddenly Peyton remembers that she loves Lucas. And goes and tells Brooke about it. Then has the audacity to be upset by Brooke's anger, twisting her words around to make it seem like Brooke wasn't all that invested to begin with.

Now, season 4 is kind of weird. There are all sorts of contradictory storylines happening, there was some on-set drama that led to weird writing. But the gist of it is that Peyton and Lucas get together too quickly after 2 seasons of Lucas being hung up on Brooke. Peyton comes across as incredibly unlikable because she won't even acknowledge that she did the same thing to Brooke twice. And the whole thing is kind of a mess. Their reunion feels unearned and their relationship becomes pretty boring once they do get together. Though that's a bug in the show generally. They don't really know how to write cconflict for a couple while they are in relationship. But oh well. It's fine. They find each other. It's all good. Only took one broken heart. Right?

NOPE. The pattern that I talked about earlier? It's not just with Brooke. Season 5, Lucas and Peyton broke up and now Lucas is with Lindsey. Peyton can't stand it, she comes back for him, it's a whole thing, BAM they once again kiss and basically cheat while he's with someone else. And herein lies the real issue: why the fuck did the writers establish their main couple repeatedly through infidility on other parties? I can't stand it. I don't understand it. These two just get sucked into the same drama that they got into while in high school. And I'm just like????? Make it make sense?????? I'm supposed to root for them???????????????

And it is terribly annoying too because Peyton's character comes across as unlikable a lot in these situations because she shows no real remorse. I think that's especially true in season 5 where there is this sense of entitlement to Lucas that comes with her actions that I don't know whether the writers intended or not. It's a bug in Peyton's character that drives me crazy to no end. She is supposed to be very kind and very selfless and very caring and very loving and compassionate and all of that, but the narrative doesn't really support any of that in her storylines. I think she's at her best in season 2, where we start to see her protectiveness over the people she loves really shine. But it's not clear in other places. And it's a bug not a feature because the narrative is so unaware of it, it's infuriating. It's the Elena Gilbert Syndrome where the self-centeredness and entitlement is a bug not a feature because the writers are completely unaware of its existence in the character. None of this is helped by the fact that Peyton doesn't really get that many storylines with other characters outside the triangle, something that Lucas and Brooke both get, so it offsets some of the frustration. Though Lucas is exclusively Leyton in season 5, too, and those two are insufferable to watch.

The other thing that I really dislike is the writers shoving down my throat that they are meant to be together. Like every other person was an obstacle in their way, all leading them to this moment where they are once again screwing someone over by cheating on them. I mean, the moment where they are together. Lucas and Peyton say it. All the other characters says it. Lindsey questions Lucas's love for her by the simple existence of Peyton. Hell, she dumps him at the alter because he supposedly doesn't know who he really loves and I'm like??? please stop????? shoving this???? down my throat????? If you have to try so hard then you've royally screwed up.

I think after season 2, when Lucas becomes full-fledged in love with Brooke, the only was that they could have made Leyton likable would have been through letting Brucas run its course, never bring Peyton back into the picture, then have them breakup because they didn't work. After which point Lucas and Peyton would slowly come closer together and find themselves falling in love again. But what they did? That ain't it chief. And I can't tell whether the writers know how unlikable Peyton gets when she inserts herself into the Brucas situation again, or if they are simply dumb.

Bottom line is, I think these two just bring out the worst in each other? If every time you're finding each other is by screwing over another person then you gotta stop at some point and re-assess. And honestly in a self-aware show, capable of handling twisted relationships, that kind of dynamic would be fascinating to watch. But in One Tree Hill? Nope. The tone, the writing, the genre, the everything doesn't allow for that.

Also, one last thing: I've never been the biggest fan of Peyton, and this rewatch didn't change that. I always thought she was judgy and entitled and a bad friend. But this rewatch did highlight that the character had so much potential initially. She could have had an interesting character arc surrounding her vulnerability and trust issues, her mental health and obviously depressive tendencies. She could have found out that people sometimes don't just leave, that she drives them away, that she makes mistakes that costs her people, costs her herself and she has to find a way to win those people back, so not just passively await their return but pave the way for them to find her again. There was so much that they could have done with her and it's sad to see that they just... didn't bother.

Anyway, that was a very long rant about Leyton. Now ask me about Lucas and I will write a dissertation.

[ms-starflower]

Young Survivors — Maribat

It’s almost four am here, I just finished writing this and am just tired enough to actually go through and post it. And this title is the only thing my tired brain could come up with. Anyway. I haven't posted something I wrote in years, but all the Maribat I’ve read recently made me want to write something for it.

I don’t know if I’m ever going to write a 2 part, but if I do it’s definitely going to be Timari and contain a couple of typical Maribat tropes. And a pinch of salt.

Also, disclaimer: I haven't watched Miraculous in years and most of my DC knowlege come from fanfic or tumblr so... sorry not sorry.

Now with a part 2!

Next >

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mei Leyton’s oldest memories were of her mother, dolled up in pretty dresses and elegant makeup. In her daughter‘s eyes, Margaret Leyton was the most beautiful woman on earth.

For as long as she could remember, Mei would sit on the bed and watch as her mom would get ready to head to work. She had always loved those moments with her mom.

(How do I look, my little flower,” she said, twirling around Mei with a grin, making her laugh. It was Margaret’s favorite dress, a vintage halter blue dress with white accents and a white bow around the waist.

“Like a princess, mommy! The prettiest princess ever!”

“Oh no, no no no. You are the prettiest princess ever, my little flower.”)

She was four when her mother let her help for the first time, letting her pass along brushes and products. It’s then that she understood what were the purple marks on her mother that she covered with her makeup.

(“Life is not fair to us, my little flower,” she had said when Mei asked about it for the first time. “Being an orphan and pretty little girl in Gotham isn’t safe, and it doesn’t give much choice when it comes to survival.”

Mei didn’t understand then, but it didn’t matter anyway, life would make her understand soon enough.)

When Mei was seven, the GCPD found her mother’s body.

When she didn’t see her that morning, Mei hadn’t been worried; it wasn’t the first time. Mom would be home by noon, she always was. Until that day.

(The investigation wouldn’t get very far, it was just another prostitute of Camellia street, nobody cared about them. They were just there until they weren’t anymore.

Another girl would take her place in a couple of days. It was how those kinds of things worked in Gotham.)

That day was kind of blurry in her memory. She remembers being pulled out of class in the morning, and that the cop that told her about her mother’s death was very rude.

(“Your mom is dead, kid. A lad found her body in a dumpster this morning,” the guy had said as soon as she had sat down in the headmistress’ office. “Do you know who she worked for? Or on what side of the Camellia she stayed?” He had asked, halfheartedly.

Mei had shaken her head, even though she did; you don’t talk to cops in Gotham, mom always says said that it was the easiest way to get yourself killed, for people like them.

“Alright,” he had said, not surprised. “A social worker is going to pick you up in a bit to take you to your new home, kid.”

With that he had walked out of the office, not looking back. As if where she would end up was going to be home.)

She remembers that the social worker from CPS was a brunette with tan skin, and looked really overworked, but had a kind smile.

By the end of the day, she was taken to Elliot's Hall for Children, an overcrowded, understaffed orphanage with more kids than they could realistically care for.

(They don’t care for the children, they just put them there for a while and act as they do. Most children leave after a couple of days, and if they don’t, they get taken anyway.

Some come back with a police escort, some manage to survive in the streets, and nobody talks about the ones that are never seen again.

You don’t work there because you love children, and if you do, you don’t last for very long.)

Mei wasn’t stupid, her mother told her stories about those kinds of places. She came from those kinds of places, and Mei saw how the man in charge here had looked at her when the social worker dropped her off.

She wasn’t going to just stand here and wait for him to sell her back in Camellia street. Or worse, to the Candy Dealers.

Taking with her what she absolutely couldn’t leave behind, Mei made a choice her mother hadn’t been able to and took her chance with the streets.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mei was a Camellia kid and, as such, took to the streets easier than most newcomers. She had picked up a few tricks from her aunties and her mom, and it helped her to survive out here.

The only (glaring) differences were the absence of her mother, the lack of a permanent roof above her head, and the fact that she had to provide food and money herself now.

(One of her favorite places to pick up wallets was Gotham Academy, where Gotham’s rich send their children. The kids always had money on them, and it’s not like they would miss it.

Though she couldn’t go too many times in a row, not without risking being spotted and remembered.)

She had been on the streets for two months when she met Jason Todd; the boy who would become her family.

She heard him before she saw him, to be honest. It was an awful crashing noise coming from around the corner, and it made her look.

He was running like the devil was after him, and judging by how the cops running behind him were clutching their batons, she wasn’t that far from the truth.

The noises were because of a couple of trash cans the boy had spilled in their way to slow them down.

And he was coming her way.

Against her better judgment, she grabbed his arm when he passed in front of her, and pulled him behind her into her hideout. Quickly getting the plank of wood back in place, she put her hand on his mouth before he could say anything. With the dumpster in the alley, the entry was almost invisible from outside.

They stayed there as they heard the men pass in front of their hiding place, listening as they argued about where the boy could have disappeared before their voices faded completely.

They waited another couple of minutes before he removed the hand she still had on his mouth and crawled out of there.

“Thanks,” he muttered with a scowl. “I woulda’ve been just fine without help but… yeah, anyway.” Then he had started to walk in the direction he came from.

“Hey! Wait!” She said before she could think about it. “Are ya just gonna, like, go? Just like that?”

“Huh, yeah? What do ya want me to do?” He asked, looking back at her from above his shoulder without stopping his walk. “Stay to drink a cup of tea and talk about the weather?”

“Well.. no. But I just… I just wanna talk a bit, ya know?” She couldn’t really explain why she didn’t want him to leave yet, it’s not like he was the first street kid she had helped out. He just felt different, and somehow she knew he could become important to her.

“Yeah, right,” he scoffed before turning his head back to look forward. “The streets are not some daycare for princesses who want to make friends, kid.”

“Kid— hey, dumbass, you’re, like, ten years old! You’re a kid too! And I’m not a princess, I can survive alone just fine!” Before she knew it, she was walking behind him, the weird feeling forgotten for the offence his comment created. He looked back at her with a frown, before choosing to ignore her. Not letting that deter her, she rambled at him about all the ways why she wasn’t a kid any more than him.

“I thought you could survive alone?” He said, talking over her, when he realized that she wasn’t going to let him be.

“I can.”

“So why are ya following me? Tryin’ to drive me crazy?”

“Well, no. It’s just... that I can do it doesn't mean I want to.”

“Look, kid,” he said, ignoring her protest and talking over her, again. “You should just go back to whatever orphanage you came from, there is probably some nice little family who's gonna pick you up. Then you could make all the friends you want.”

“Like people actually adopt kids in this city. This is Gotham, you dummy, not ‘Annie’. Some rich white guy isn’t going to come and pick up children from the streets to make them live the Grand life.”

“Yeah, okay, whatever,” he growled out without pausing in his steps. “Still, you’re pretty enough, I’m sure some nice people would adopt you in a second if you let them.”

“Yeah, sure. Mom thought the same when she was a kid, and guess what? She started working on Camellia street when she was fourteen, but nobody asked her if she wanted to. Because she was pretty enough,” the little seven years old spat with venom, her eyes narrowed. The boy stopped walking, turning toward her with eyes wide, like a deer caught in headlights. “Her best friend wasn’t, but mom said that she had the prettiest green eyes ever. When they found her body, she didn’t have eyes anymore, because some rich person paid to have pretty green eyes.”

“I— I didn’t—” he stuttered, eyes wide. With his scowl gone he looked so much younger, and Mei’s anger subdued. He wasn’t that much older than her, just a couple of years, maybe three or four, after all.

“It’s… okay, I guess. It’s Gotham. I just thought we both would have more chances to survive if we helped each other out. And, ya know, the company wouldn’t be so bad.”

“Whatever,” he mumbled, but when they resumed walking he slowed down enough to let her walk beside him without almost-running.

“Great! So, Annie, where are we going now?” She said with a beaming smile, bursting into laughter at his indignation and protest against the nickname.

(“Can’t you stop calling me Annie already?! I told you my name’s Jason!”

“Nope, Annie.”

“Well, then, that makes you Sandy, doesn't it? Ya do follow me around like a stray puppy.”

“I’m not a dog— wait, hold on a minute! I knew you saw the movie! You liar!”)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

She was ten when her life was put upside down once again, in the worst of ways.

It took practically no time before Jason “Annie” Todd became her brother in all but blood, it took longer for Jason to admit it, and they spend almost three years surviving together, barring the occasional trip back to the Children's Houses.

Though, they always found each other a couple of days after they escaped from those places.

Sometimes, Jason would plan something that he needed to do alone. Because of course, he did.

(“It’s the best job, my plan is perfect. Don’t worry, it’s gonna be great Sandy!”

“Yeah, and why can’t I come?”

“It’s too dangerous! Plus, you need to stay here and keep our things safe!”

“Yeah, if you say so, Annie.”)

That day was one of those days.

He was gone for less than an hour when they found her.

The Candy Dealers.

Mei paled when she saw them, wearing their nice suits and overly sweet smile. They told her they were social workers, specializing in homeless children, and offered her a lollipop. Social workers in Gotham don’t give candy to the kids, even the nice ones, and she knew from her time in Camellia street that the lollipop was drugged.

(“Never, ever, take candy from a Candy Dealer, Mei. Do you understand me? Never,” her mother told her gravely. “They put bad stuff in them, and if you put it in your mouth, they will take you away from me. I couldn’t live without you in my life, my little flower.”)

She tried to run, even before the first one got his hand totally outstretched toward her. But her panic made her stumble, and she was no match for them.

She tried to kick, and scream, and bite, but soon she felt a pinch in her neck, and everything was black.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

The next period of her life was one she tried very hard to forget. For months she was moved, her and dozens of other people, from containers to containers, warehouse to warehouse. Twice they were put in a boat, the containers staying closed for so long, the next time she saw the moonlight, it burned her eyes.

She quickly learned that it was pointless to try to escape (and that Jason wouldn’t come and save her).

Then, one night, the place they were at was illuminated with blue and red lights and the police sirens were so loud, they drowned everything else.

She didn’t let herself hope, though. (She did, she hoped so hard her chest hurt.)

They (probably) weren’t in Gotham anymore, but her childhood didn’t instill her much trust in the police.

They did get them out. And she learned that they were in Paris now. In France. (That was a long way from Gotham.)

There were twenty-seven other people with her in the container. Four of which were kids, and only one other was also an orphan. They weren’t placed together, though. Because the kid had family back where he came from. Unlike her. (She had Jason. He was her family, but they didn’t listen.)

The French social workers took a while to know what to do with her exactly, but they didn’t want to send her back to Gotham (why not? She wanted to go back and find Jason!). So, in the meantime, they placed her in a foster family—one without any other kid, as per her therapist's advice. (The therapist didn’t know anything. She said Gotham wasn’t good for her, but Jason was in Gotham.)

Funnily enough, it ended up being a more permanent solution than previously considered, because the foster parents, Tom and Sabine, quickly fell in love with the little girl.

Not before long, Mei Leyton became Marinette Dupain-Cheng. (They changed her name to give her a ‘new beginning’ because her therapist thought it would be good for her. She didn’t want to have a ‘new beginning', she wanted to go back, to find Jason, to be the Sandy to his Annie. She was Mei, the Camellia’s kid, Sandy, the street’s kid and it was enough for her. She didn’t want to be Marinette, the bakers’ kid.)

So, when Mei was first put into the care of the Dupain-Cheng household, she regularly tried to run away. It was unsurprisingly harder than in Gotham, though. Tom and Sabine were way more attentive than Elliot Hall’s staff ever was, and more than a third of her tentatives were folded even before she was past the front door.

It took her three months (and forty-three unsuccessful tentatives) before she finally accepted that there would be no way for her to go back to Gotham. (Not that she had known how she would manage to do that before, her plan never got that far.) It took another six months before Tom and Sabine trusted her enough to let her wander the neighborhood alone.

The first thing she did the day her ‘new parents’ let her go to the library alone was to get to a public computer, and look Jason up. She didn’t really think she would find anything when she typed Jason Todd and Gotham in Google that day (maybe an obituary). She definitely didn't think she would find her best friend (brother) on the covers of so many tabloids declaring that he was Bruce Wayne’s ward.

She didn’t know how she should feel about the fact that he proved her wrong and became some real-life Annie. She wanted to feel angry, or hurt. Even more so when she realised that Wayne adopted him not even a full week after her (kidnapping) departure from Gotham, but…

But seeing Jason in the pictures… He looked so angry. Angrier than she ever saw him. And hurt. There was hurt hidden in his expression. It was well hidden but she could see it. (She did that, she was the one that hurted him. He probably thought she left him. That she wasn’t any better than his deadbeat of a father and abandoned him. What if he hates her now, because she was gone for so long?)

She needed to go back to Gotham, find him, and explain everything. She needed to tell him she didn’t want to leave him behind, that he was her family, and that it would never change. But Tom and Sabine didn’t want to take her back there, not before she was older, because she wasn’t ready yet, they said.

She didn’t care, though. No matter how long it would take her, she was going to go back. So, she slowly started to act like the perfect little girl. She didn’t really change, she just stopped bringing up Gotham so much, started to help more often in the house and at the bakery, and started to call Tom and Sabine Papa and Maman. (It wasn’t real, at first. But then, they just crawled into her heart against her will and became family. They didn’t replace her Mom or Jason, though. Nobody ever will.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

She started to heal. Slowly, without even realising. She opened up to a couple of children at her school, made friends with Nino, and sort of Frenemies (more enemy than friend, though) with Chloé Bourgeois. She picked up hobbies like sewing and designing, baking with Tom, or learning various martial arts with Sabine.

But she didn’t forget, going back to Gotham was still her ultimate goal. Until the news reached her, when she was twelve.

Jason Todd was dead.

Her best friend, her brother in everything but blood, her Annie. Dead. Jason was dead.

She felt like a part of her died with him, reading the words but not really processing. She let herself drown in her grief, closing up to everyone around her. Surprisingly, Chloé was the one that made her react. Literally slapping her to make her come back from the dead. (Not entirely, though. Mei, the Gothamite part of her, stayed dead with Jason. Only Marinette, the nice little parisian, came back.)

“I don’t really know what’s up with you, Dupain-Cheng,” she had said while Marinette cradled her sore cheek, her faux-contempt badly hiding her worry. “But you need to put yourself together. Tormenting you is no fun if you don’t react to it, and people are too worried for you to be afraid of me. Don’t make me call daddy on you.”

“I…” She had started, only to stop herself. She had looked back at Nino and Kim, both of whom were looking at her with poorly concealed worry. “Yeah, sorry Chloé.”

She pulled herself out of the worst of it after that, at the obvious relief of the people around her. None of which even knew why she was in this state. She still cried herself to sleep most nights, and sometimes felt like someone gouged out her heart with their bare hands, but she also started to let herself think of the good times. Started to let herself feel the good things happening around her, in the present.

Then, she saved the life of an old man, found magic earrings and a bug-mouse-kwami in her room that told her that she needed to become a hero and save Paris.

She thought of her big brother, of how he would always protect her when someone tried to rob them. Hide her, before even thinking of himself, when the cops would chase them down, trying to bring them back to Elliot's Hall. Give her all the food when they couldn’t get enough for the both of them. How he was a hero. Her Hero. And, really, there was only one thing she could say to that.

“Tikki, spots on!”

~~~~~~~~~~~~

So. That's it. That was fun. I'm going to sleep now, goodnight.

Btw, Jason's super plan that day was totaly to steal the Batmobile's tires.

[thetaoofbetty]

anon, you weren't wrong about it being long so i put it under the cut:

Don’t mind me this is super long… but I needed to say this to someone and I like what you have to say…. Anyways…..The morning after the episode comes out is the greatest. I grab my coffee and start my daily stroll on Twitter.—i was going to offer to switch with you since i woke up with a 16lb french bulldog puppy on my face but then i got to the twitter part and nah, i'll keep the puppy alarm clock.

It makes my day really, reading all these bad takes about the show… not the show but about ships… Im starting to wonder about the ba’s mental well being. 1) making Toni’s baby about them 🧐— also, god love them, but they know that evan co-wrote this right? like, of course they stood next to each other, if it was anyone else writing, would that have even happened?

2) deciding that last scene was foreshadowing a b/archie baby and that look was them wanting to be parents. Oh okay. You keep telling yourselves that 🥸—because betty smiled at the baby outside of pop's or when they smiled at each other? perhaps betty likes babies? she seemed pretty happy when they announced the whole thing in 5x08. listen, i don't have a problem with them headcanoning that, it's that they come to me like i need to expect it to happen.

i have smiled at total strangers when a baby does something cute in a grocery store line, it's really not that special. headlines around the world gonna have to be like: "in shocking news, woman of child-bearing age smiled at adorable baby, what could it mean!?"

do they want a paternity thing between her, archie, and glen? i'd be like okay so my girl was on her birth control, right?

3) b/archie begins their true love romance after bughead has their “friendship talk” (their words not mine) and Veronica tells Archie she doesn’t want him in more and she’s meant for Reggie there’s a few that want her single so she can work on her self (again their words) but again if that’s the case if anyone is single it should be Betty. She has the most she needs to work on but whatever, they are convinced their logic is sound😅—ahh, the good ol' friendship talk. they do know that if the show wanted them to have closure and be moved on from each other, nothing they did for 5x10, 5x11, 5x14, or the upcoming talk was necessary, right? you can't say they need all that backstory for closure when varchie is right there, doing none of that.

i know when i'm reading or watching something, i always want some big emotional moments for the couple with massive amounts of history who have told each other multiple times that they would always love the other so that they can...be friends.

4) they believe we want Betty to beg the person she cheated on to take her back (not even close to what we want)—listen, i say this with affection, but some people in this fandom ain't gonna make it with other tv shows if a kiss and weird bunker hand holding scene is unforgivable (because yes, some people do want her to beg. which is weird and definitely not at all projecting, i'm sure but i avoid people like that as much as possible) as a cheating arc.

which is actually probably why some of the b/as are mad tbh. cheating as a plot device is either used because the pairing is "meant to be" (leyton maybe?) or it's for angst and drama (when haley kissed chris keller while with nathan. sorry, my exchange student started binging one tree hill so they're my examples today). they really didn't want it to be for angst and drama. especially contrasted with the scenes in 5x14 where they're being shown with other people but prioritizing each other.

but also, it doesn't matter what they think we want, they're also the ones who are now trying to sell the "jughead is still in love with betty and she hates him" story because if there's one thing that makes them nervous, it's jughead talking to betty.

(which is stupid, archie literally said he had feelings for veronica with his actual mouth, i don't know why they ignore her—)

5) b/archie must be together because of their similar storylines (umm what? They all have trauma, and they don’t even come close to having similar storylines. That actually made my brain hurt)—yeah, they're all in the midst of trauma. that's the point? none of them are doing well right now? maybe they should watch the actual show?

also they're wrong anyway tbh, because archie and veronica are fighting against hiram and betty and jughead are the ones investigating so, uh, their storylines aren't similar at all.

6) and this one tops the cake. Lili and cole can’t stand to be near each other so that automatically means b/archie endgame and that’s why we push so hard so we can have something we can never have in real life 🤯 ( the b/archies have completely lost it. There’s no help in saving them. Lili and cole are professional, they can handle them selves. Don’t bring real life into this)—who's gonna tell them about the scenes filmed after that breakup? including love scenes. i'm still side-eyeing the b/a who lost it on twitter when kj announced he was going to be a dad because it killed their hopes of kj and lili dating and getting the "bughead" treatment for b/archie. like there's not a whole video of ras talking about putting betty and jughead together before riverdale ever came out. they need to stop listening to ex-bughead stans who forgot how to separate reality from fiction.

Also as I think about all the episodes that are left and trying to think how they think b/archie can reconnect. Episode 16- Jughead’s apology tour and bughead talk, episode 17- they work together with Tabitha. Veronica gets divorced (I’m assuming by a still) mines explode, Jackson I think dies. Betty hits rock bottom when they find Polly’s body (my theory) episode 18- Cooper centric musical which reads bughead. (I’m going by what I’ve read on this one)—that's the whole point for a lot of it, there's not a lot of time for whatever they think is going to happen. if bughead is investigating together, we know from experience that there's probably not a lot of scenes just randomly showing them doing other things. whatever overly flowery thing they're wishing for is really just...gonna have to say it's probably not going to happen.

I do think Archie will be there for Betty, in a platonic way. He’s dealt with death and grief of a loved one and he can help her in ways others can’t and that’s how their friendship deepens (although she did lose her father many years before but I don’t see that the same)—i think evan said that the bomb emoji for b/archie was literal so maybe they go through something at the mines or something, i don't know but i do know that it's always a plot device and never has any real lasting impact on the friendship the show wants us to think is there.

but back to the bughead portion of that. I do think Bughead starts their way back. But anyways that leaves episode 19 which is a season final and all types of things going on for Betty and Archie to proclaim their love (also I forgot until now. Ba’s believe that because Cole didn’t post either lili or kj on his wrap post for season 5 is that they are on their own in their love factory)—it's funny to me that they think that most of the characters are out there with weapons and betty and archie aren't because they're in some sort of love nest, planning a baby announcement. archie? not leading some righteous cause? spearheading a rescue mission? really? they've assumed a lot about those pictures, including where and when it all takes place. i mean, i'm a big fan of logic so if i was going to assume anything, i'd assume that maybe the missing characters are the ones who need to be rescued. or it's a misdirection. but no, i'm sure it's totally because the two most impulsive characters are off planning a baby announcement. what exactly, did they think the scene was if people were missing from it?

I think that maybe the cliffhanger his then trying to save Betty and Archie’s out doing what Archie does best which is act like he knows what’s going on. Idk just a thought.—honestly, it seems like there's a lot of action going on in the finale and riverdale does love a cliffhanger so archie throwing himself in the middle of it sounds about right.

So in summary their is no time for them and if they would watch the show like normal people that would of seen this a while ago. (What story the show is actually telling vs what they read in interviews and what they come up in their heads) bughead is the story.—riverdale is the type of show people in fandom watch with a microscope and everyone else is watching while scrolling through their phone. it's not complicated and it's not playing a long con. that roberto and co have said the same things to them for years with none of the results they keep expecting is really not on any of us.

at this point, they need to remember that even bugheads and varchies gave b/a more thought than the show did and stop blaming us for things not going their way.

💕 have a fantastic morning.—i hope your morning was great and have a fantastic afternoon.💜

[roddyretrograde]

honestly love hilarie touching on peyton and her sexual nature, and admitting to nathan she’s only had sex with him. like she doesn’t sleep around, she’s really a serial monogamous. she asks jake and lucas to wait for sex in canon (though she does sleep with jake like the very next episode cause jeyton’s chemistry lbr). she’s canonly a serial monogamous dater, like picks a guy and is all about them and when she’s single she’s like... okay hooking up with people here and there and ghosting them. but she really wants something real and that’s what’s important to her, not the sex part. 

with neyton, she wanted sex cause she was young, and around people having sex young, and super into the new boyfriend she got end of sophomore year, and nate was cute and cocky af which made him hot. and then she uses sex as a tool for them to stay together - like that was why they were good together in her head, cause that means it’s meant to be.

so she asks jake to wait cause she’s !!! crazy about him, and then it happens soon anyways cause again, they’re nuts about each other, and also, she’s learned that sex is intimacy from her previous relationship.

but she also asks lucas to wait too when he’s trying to hook up with her in the afternoon in his room. and she keeps giving him excuses to wait and he’s still pushing. and then after they finally do hook up, peyton goes straight worry mode about all the s4 drama and she probably should have waited longer lbr. cause sex is a big deal to her, and a lot of people. especially at that age!! she wasn’t even 18 yet and she just went through the year from hell it was probably too much too soon. keep in mind lucas was sexually active with brooke like right off the bat - whipcream and condoms - so he thinks rushing is perfectly normal cause honestly i think brooke was lucas’ first girlfriend ever. he doesn’t get why peyton, who had sex with her previous two boyfriends won’t just do it with him. 

i also think that brucas had a sexual love language. they were super touchy, all over one another (which i loved) and honestly i think that’s where leyton don’t match up. they weren’t at each other’s speed and it always seemed off. it was never just a click this is our moment, it was this kinda fumbling sort of thing, with the bedroom, and then the party, and then crashed prom. even in s6 they have hiccups. it just seems like they both aren’t the most comfortable with eachother. 

[othramblings]

I know the Drama Queens podcast has gotten heat over their words on Lucas’s behavior but as far as I’m concerned, it makes sense. For anyone who watched when the show aired, you. know that Team Brooke vs Team Peyton was a HUGE deal and a major source of marketing for the show. I don’t remember conversations about Lucas’s role in the love triangle getting anywhere near any attention like the girls were getting. Sophia and Hilarie, like many viewers, are realizing upon rewatch that Lucas played a role in all of the drama in a way that didn’t really get attention before. Hilarie said it herself, she has been getting sh*t for years because of the love triangle. Anyway, Lucas should not have dated Peyton’s best friend after she turned him down. I said what I said.  ALSO it feels obvious that brucas broke up because Sophia and Chad did in real life, which ultimately led to leyton 2.0. The love confession from Peyton about her feeling for Lucas in season 3 is what really made a lot of people dislike the character that Hilarie has gotten so much heat for, but she doesn’t seem to ever place blame on them and I wonder if maybe the girls don’t think the IRL breakup affected the characters’ paths?? I mean, Hilarie took quite a hit there and doesn’t seem to dwell on what led to it. 

[peytonsavyer]

What do you think of Drama Queens so far?

I haven't listened to the newest episode yet just fyi! But anyways, most of the time I really enjoy it. I love Hilarie, Sophia and Joy, they are the loveliest together <3 I think it's really nice to hear the behind the scenes stories and how they felt about doing certain scenes and episodes, and how much thought they put into what kind of message they were sending out to young girls watching at the time. Though it has also been painful to listen to some of it, and hear how they felt doing some things - like sexual scenes etc. I mean, I don't see a problem with having sex portrayed on television in itself, sometimes it is warranted to a story or relationship portrayed - but knowing what was going on behind the scenes on this show and that the girls always had to wonder if it was a scheme to get them to lose their clothes, or have them question what message they were sending to the viewers - makes me understand why they felt uncomfortable with a lot of it. And it's sad. I'm also trying to accept the fact that the queens won't always share my opinions on the show; they are after all entitled to their own opinions. Just because they have a different opinion from me, doesn't automatically mean that they are "right" and I am "wrong". But it did bother me especially when I felt like they totally downplayed most of Leyton's scenes and Peyton and Lucas' love for each other. I feel like they just don't SEE what I SEE, and it makes me frustrated lmao, but it's not their fault, they are after all seeing it with different eyes, in a different time, from a different perspective and I have to accept that. I won't allow that to change how I feel about the show, relationships and storylines that I love. Anyways, love the three of them, love hearing the stories of the guests, we have such an awesome cast on this show 😍 Good for them for reclaiming something that they made, taking it back and making it feel like home!

[where-theres-smoak-2]

Barchie Theory

Full disclosure here, this isn’t my theory. It’s something I’ve seen going around on twitter in various different comments that I’ve decided to put all in one post because I think all these smaller theories or details could be linked together to make one big theory if that makes sense and I was wondering what others might think of this theory as I am still a little unsure of it myself.  

Ok so the theory is that in 5x14 we will get a love confession. To be honest when I saw that tweet that is literally all it said just ‘I think we’ll get a love confession in 5x14.’ So I’m not really sure where the original theory came from but there are other tweets as well that could be relevant to this theory. Another thing people have pointed out which could support this idea that 5x14 will be a big episode for Barchie is because madchen amick posted this:

This reveals that the episode she is directing is 5x14 and it’s called The Night Gallery. Some twitter uses have made the suggestion that title could be related to this picture that was released a couple of weeks ago by the set designer:

This picture shows a collection or a ‘gallery’ of pictures. The title like all the other titles of Riverdale this season is linked to an existing media. This one is a TV show called ‘the night gallery.’ The premise of this tv show was the host would show three paintings and each painting would be linked to a story which would be told (it was mostly horror stories). I could see how this picture could be related here. My theory going off of this is that the episode will follow a similar format as the tv show the night gallery. I have heard that the actors who played little Betty and Archie in 4x18 were seen on set so we can assume at some point we will get Barchie flashbacks. Now to be clear it is not confirmed that the picture above is from 5x14 and its not confirmed that the child actors will appear in 5x14, this is just speculation. But I could see them showing us one of these pictures then it flashing back to the memory/ story that is in that picture. Then showing us another picture and us having another flashback to another moment in Barchie’s past. So yes in my opinion I could see there being a link between the title of the episode and the picture of all the photo frames. 

Another twitter account pointed out that Ted Sullivan one of the writers said this about 5x14:

 Again this doesn’t say anything in particular about Barchie but seeing as Betty is such a big part of his life I again could understand why people might come to the conclusion that something important with Barchie will happen in 5x14. Especially if you combine it with the title and the photo of the picture frames. On top of that Ted also said this about a certain episode in season 5: 

When questioned further he elaborated a little more:

So naturally with the hmm at the end many people are speculating that its in reference to Barchie as most comic book fans are Barchie fans and this implies that the comic fans will also be very happy. 

Now me personally not to be a debbie downer but I do feel like alot of this information is too vague to say for definite that this means we are getting Barchie in episode 14 but again I can see where people are coming from with it. For me I think the most convincing ‘evidence’ is the title and the photo of the Barchie pictures but it is also worth noting that Ted posted the tweet about Archie having a powerful storyline in episode 14 the day after he posted about a ‘VERY special’ episode, so that could be an indication that episode 14 is the very special episode he was referring to. I mean the language he uses to describe the two episodes is very similar, describing something as ‘very special’ and something as ‘near and dear to your heart’ definitely, to me, has similar vibes. But again on the flip side of that its also worth bearing in mind that there could be at least some degree of baiting going on here so take it with a pinch of salt.

Also this is a sort of side note but as I mentioned baiting. Yesterday Evan did post a picture of Cheryl and the bulldog mascot and zoomed in on the mascot and put the caption ‘me patiently waiting for tomorrow’s episode (and #barchie)’ before later editing it to remove the Barchie part. Now why he went back and edited it I’m not sure maybe because he knew that there wouldn’t be alot of Barchie in this episode and realised it properly wasn’t a good idea to tag it with Barchie for an episode that didn’t have any content for them? But this could be an indication that there is still more of Barchie’s story to tell. But again this could also just be them baiting us, I’ll be honest I am very wary of the writers right now.    

I mean as far as timelines go episode 14 could be the perfect time for Barchie to have a love confession. I’ve said a few times now that I could see something happening between Barchie in the season finale like a kiss or confession from one of them as they think they are dying that is then ignored after like with Leyton in season 3 of OTH. If this were to happen in episode 10 then that would give four episodes of Barchie being confused about what happened and their feelings about it before the ‘big confession’ where they both finally lay it all out on the table. Then you have another five episodes after that where they are together for the remainder of the season. So that would be 4 episodes where they are FWB, 4 episodes of them being confused about their feelings after a spontaneous kiss and 5 episodes of them as a couple which to me seems like a logical timeline. 

Whilst I am not sure if they will have any scenes in this episode I really do think they will have something in ep 10 because the show is going on a longish break so they are going to need to keep the fans interested. By having Veronica and Archie get together last episode, then having Betty and Jughead investigating this week, if they then have something happen between Barchie in the midseason finale then the will have all three sides of the fandom itching for more because they want to know what will happen next for their ships. I really don’t think its a coincidence that they’ve brought back the og ships this close to the midseason finale and so that’s why I think they’ll also bring in some Barchie content to keep everyone invested whilst they are on break. 

Anyway think I’ve waffled on long enough what does everyone else think, do you think its possible that Barchie will have a love confession in episode 14 or are you still thinking it’s done and dusted for Barchie?  

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Hi, Aliandra here. Lots of food for thought in your last reply, thank you so much! You have now made me very curious about Maester Pylos. I don’t know that I’ll be writing you Loras/Pylos…but I don’t know that I won’t either. ;-)

I do like your headcanon that Tanselle from The Hedge Knight might be related to the present-day Martells (c.f. the widow’s peak), especially with Rohanne confirmed as having married into the Lannisters. Dunk really gets around, doesn’t he? (We love him so.)

I’d be curious to know if you have any particular headcanons regarding the relationship between the Hightowers and the Citadel, or any things you especially enjoy seeing in fic that features the Citadel.

Hello Aliandra! Very sorry for the delay in replying, between the holidays and my other secret santa responsibilities, I’m afraid I was too swamped to do much else. Hope I can answer you well at least!

Regarding the Hightowers and the Citadel… hmm… I just think it’s super interesting that they founded the whole order back in the distant days of history, when the “pet” alchemists, wizards, healers, teachers, and wise men of a disabled but favored Hightower scion were granted an island by his kingly brother, to continue their quest for knowledge. I think it’s also interesting that they provide the most (though not all) funding for the maesters today, to the point that Lord Hightower is titled “the Defender of the Citadel”. (Among other titles of course.) Like, even in academia with major donors, it’s not usually quite that intense, lol. 

Though I have the feeling today’s Hightowers don’t really influence the direction of the Citadel’s research very much – the way today’s archmaesters are so anti-magic, and yet Lord Leyton is reportedly “consulting books of spells” atop the Hightower, says there’s not that much of a connection. Though maybe it’s possible that Archmaester Marwyn, as an eldritch researcher, was protected from “the grey sheep” by the influence of Lord Leyton? Although of course it’s also very possible Marwyn could protect himself from “poison in his porridge”… but it would be interesting to think that in addition to consorting with all sorts of people down in the depths of the city, Marwyn also spent a lot of time in its greatest heights consulting with the lord of Oldtown.

As for fic that features the Citadel, I’m afraid I haven’t read that much. IIRC I’ve read a minific or two featuring Aemon when he was a student there, but those were more character pieces than anything about the Citadel itself. I tend to avoid speculative/theoretical fics about Sam’s upcoming story there, as I would much rather prefer to read only what GRRM has planned tyvm lolsigh. Though I can at least recommend @poorshadowspaintedqueens​‘s excellent Alleras / House Targaryen history fic, which in addition to the joys of academia, has our favorite undercover Sand Snake maester-in-training researching a journal about the Targaryen queens written by their ladies-in-waiting, filling in so many of the terrible gaps in Fire & Blood.  I love the worldbuilding and history, but I must say the backbiting comments about the archmaesters and their predilections are also a favorite. My own maester OC also has a tendency to go off about his experiences at the Citadel, though his bitching tends to be more about their medical practices and instruction than about their issues with historiography… though he’s not immune to that either. ;)

Anyway, again let me just say, whatever you decide to do, I’m sure I’ll love it. And hope you’re having a happy new year!

[zalrb]

Do you think Lucas was a bad boyfriend to Brooke the second time around? When Peyton confessed to Brooke that she loved him, Brooke took alot of the anger out on Lucas but i dont think he was actually at fault there. I think the second time round it was all on Peyton. Do you count the library kiss as cheating, to me it was similar to the DE season 2 deathbed kiss?

well this is the thing about brucas because when the writers decided to redirect it to leyton, the writing was basically like, oh their relationship in season 3 was terrible and lucas didn't even really care about brooke and his heart wasn't in it anyway, and i was like, really? 

what was this?

this?

THIS? oh my god his hair.

this??

this?

this?

their letters should not be overlooked because they’re significant. lucas teases her about them because he thinks it’s all in good fun 

but when he realizes that she put herself out there after being severely hurt by him by giving him those letters and that it’s representative of her vulnerability and trust in him after such a betrayal 

he makes himself vulnerable too by sending letters to her to show that there is no emotional hierarchy in their relationship, which is important

particularly after this exchange from season 1 

not to mention the first seven or eight episodes of lucas going through all of brooke’s tests and hoops to prove himself

to the point that when they are together and peyton’s biological mother died, lucas doesn’t rush to comfort her and only goes over when brooke gestures to him because foremost, he wants to make clear that there are boundaries and he wants to make brooke feel comfortable

then leyton shippers bring up how lucas could joke around with peyton in 3x17 after keith died and can’t even talk to brooke which indicates that they didn’t know each other at all but i’m like, kay, peyton and lucas have one 2 minute conversation where he makes fun of her for kissing him 

after she nearly bled out and died in the library next to him 

so yeah, he wants to make her feel comfortable and then he IMMEDIATELY says that he’s in love with brooke (no i don’t consider the library kiss cheating) it’s not like stefan and delena where peyton has to tell lucas to fight for brooke or asks what about brooke or directs him to brooke

and then finds brooke and talks to her and says that it means a lot to him that she’s there even if he can’t express it all the time -- and he’s expressing it THEN and they have a really tender moment

and then in the next episode it’s clear that being with brooke is helping him heal,

 and he’s talking to her about what he’s going through,

and OK even the whole rescue thing, an anon and i talked about this a while ago, he didn’t go and SET OUT to save peyton, he set out to bring nathan back

and i mean if nathan isn’t leaving until he finds haley and there’s blood by the library where your friend and your girlfriend were seen last and you care about your friend and your girlfriend is safe and you’re supposed to be the hero of the show, then why not go see if someone is bleeding out in the library?

just the whole fanfare around him being her hero has me like, it’s not as EPIC as it’s spoken about but anyway. (putting it out there now since anons may bring this up, the reason why i consider stefan staying to save damon in 8x16 a stelena scene and don’t give much thought to this scene as an epic leyton scene that’s a strike against brucas is 1) the way se/sc end in the episode is a far cry from the way brucas end in this episode 2) steroline was not as narratively strong as brucas)

then in season 4 when they had this exchange

i was like WHERE? 

but because he didn’t submit her stuff to the fashion competition but in season 1 he sent peyton’s artwork to a magazine that means that he just doesn’t know brooke?? that’s DUMB when they spent most of season 2 bonding

and then were getting to know each other even more deeply in season 3, 

which is why lucas can tell her in a rainstorm all the things he loves about her and it’s just HORRIBLE writing.

[rigginsstreet]

Maybe it’s because you’re a fellow Leyton shipper but I just feel like confessing a few unpopular opinions to you if you’re up for it :-)The first is that I think Haley is a really boring character for about 90% of the series. For most of the first season, she had a personality – snarky and nerdy and prickly yet kind. I loved and related to her! But I don’t buy her wanting to be this big-time singer at all, and then from season three on she just became such a dull character with no defining traits other than being Nathan’s worried but supportive wife. It’s like all her personality traits disappeared somehow! I love the actress but the character just became kind of generic to me. A related UO is that naley doesn’t really move me. Objectively they’re a very good ship but I’m just not personally invested in them and have no real idea why. Another unpopular opinion is that season 6 is my favorite of the series. I LOVED Leyton this season, I think Julian/Brulian was a lot more interesting before they completely and totally rewrote his personality, I love the Sam stuff, I love seeing Peyton so happy yet still very much herself, Nathan announcing that he finally made the NBA is probably the most I personally cared about him since way back in the first couple of seasons, and Haley’s S6 chocolate brown hair is my personal save :) Thanks for listening and hopefully not judging lol! I’m also curious if you think Peyton could have been truly happy with Jake or if she’d only really be happy forever with Lucas. Leyton is my ultimate OTP but I like Jeyton too!

to be fair, i dont think haley ever wanted some big singing career either. it just kind of fell into her lap. plus i love joys voice and the music she brought to the show so im willing to overlook the absurdity of it anyway

and as far as her character becoming dull, they touch a lot on that in the drama queens podcast, how they feel the writers just didnt know what to do with haley once she became a wife and mother because they dont know what to do with women once theyre wives and mothers, and i have to agree. i think a lot of casual misogyny played into haleys lack of storylines in seasons 4 and 5 specifically

i agree about naley being underwhelming and season 6 being a fave, especially for leyton, along with your other points

i dont think peyton wouldve been miserable with jake, but i do think she wouldve eventually down the road started wondering what her life wouldve been like with lucas and all the what ifs and what couldve beens. its like people who settle down and have a nice life, a nice family, are happy, but theres always something nagging in the back of their brain, a hole gone unfilled from choosing one path over another at some point in their life, ya know? you dont necessarily regret your life but... you wonder what the other version of yourself wouldve been

[andsmile]

i sent the gaslighting ask earlier & i agree that they gave lucas way too much power in that storyline. i love lp but i cannot understand why they gave him the power they did in s5. ps already wasn't in a favorable position in the 1st triangle bc of the betrayal, but then they to make her the villain in a story where she actually didn't do anything wrong for once confused the hell out of me. not wanting to get married at 19 is one of her only lucas related decision that wasn't messy. (1/3)

that was so strange to me for them to throw her into the mix. i did like the s5 bl scenes but i still don't understand her inclusion. i love lp but that wasn't the s5 story necessary. i feel like there was other ways to give them angst that didn't involve another person. lucas was the messiest love interest. i cannot believe bl & lp stans really suffered as long as we did bc of him. how'd we survive that? (3/3)

i lost the part 2 of your ask because i suck 😭 but i remember you mentioning how lindsey was so sweet and didn’t deserve what lucas did to her, and also how brooke shouldn’t have been included in the triangle since she had moved on with her life.

yeah, i don’t know, it was really messy to me. i don’t ship leyton and as iconic as their angsty-s5 scenes were i think i would have a hard time actually rooting for them in those circumstances. lucas acted like he hated peyton most of the time and did things deliberately to hurt her. i think in s6 is the only season that he stops acting resentful or bitter towards her and that i could finally see the ~love he claimed to feel for her since forever. before that, mmm (and even so he guilt-tripped her a lot with the baby storyline). 

the thing with brooke being in the mix i guess it’s because it was really more about lucas’s feelings and heart than anything else. i think mark schwan knew that the door on brooke was never closed in lucas’s heart regardless of how they ended things, and wanted to portray that to the viewership. as a bigger brucas fan i’ve seen many analysis of that symbolic dream. i also always think that this storyline was something he wanted to do with brucas/leyton in s5 but obviously couldn’t. he would either be marrying peyton and brooke would be in peyton’s position, or he would be marrying brooke and peyton would be in the position she was against lindsay. lol.

but anyway...lucas was a mess and deserved to end up alone, if we’re being honest, and i hope that peyton divorced him and that she met jake in some music festival and that someday arrived.