#anyway LWA IS BACK!!!✨
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LWA: /Does/ Aziraphale build actual relationships with humans? It's an interesting question, because his interactions with Maggie or Nina are not much more intimate than they were with Anathema Device after he and Crowley ran her over. Aziraphale doesn't go to the pub because he wants to /avoid/ people ("this is why I don't go to the pub!"). Gaiman has said repeatedly that Aziraphale is just not that interested in interacting with people beyond a certain point. He's polite and friendly to everyone--which is the point: he's polite and friendly to everyone, including the two guys who threatened him in Edinburgh. Aside from the ball in S2, he doesn't invite humans into his shop to socialize. We know he went to a "gentleman's club" to learn how to do the gavotte, but enjoying a night out is still not the same thing as developing individual friendships. Presumably, like Book!Aziraphale, he was on good terms with various prophets, but even Book!Aziraphale doesn't go much beyond thinking about them with mild fondness. He and Crowley are attached to /humanity/, rather than to individual humans. The flip side of this is that it's not clear that either one of them would be much fun to be around for any length of time! They are canonically reality warpers, they don't exist in time the same way, and beyond a certain point they don't understand human psychology.
I was idly thinking about miracle ethics the other day, which maybe has some bearing on this question. I'm not sure that either the novel or the TV series has a thought-out position on the matter (in the novel, Adam denounces "messing about," but then Aziraphale and/or Crowley miracles up a reservation at the Ritz...which is surely messing about, or is it?). I think everyone is in agreement that in S2, the ball crosses a boundary line once Aziraphale begins overwriting everyone's minds, and both Nina and Maggie call him and Crowley out for treating them like toys. S1 and S2 also suggest that Crowley's interrogation technique is troubling, and it's noteworthy that Aziraphale dislikes it: in S1, Aziraphale objects to hypnotizing Sister Mary Loquacious and at least tries to be kind while questioning her, while in S2 he resists interrogating Gabriel "properly." Crowley's second interrogation in S2 comes across as invasive and even violent, enough so to cause Gabriel pain. By contrast, neither the novel nor the series seems to suggest that there's anything wrong with Aziraphale doing the Jedi mind-warping thing if it's in self-defense. (In fact, it's arguably odd that he /doesn't/ do it in 1793 and 1941.)
LWA!!!✨ hello, hi, been a while! i hope you're well :)
you're right, it is an interesting question! and its boggled me for a good little while - but the conclusion ive clumsily arrived at is that it's kinda as you say and what neil has said, but i do wonder if there's a little bit more to it (at least from how ive interpreted it, anyhow). because whilst i think aziraphale doesn't initially want, need, or set out to form emotional connection to humans, he arguably ends up doing it anyway, and to those humans the connection is indeed meaningful. in time, i think they come to mean something to aziraphale too.
because my thought process on this is indeed clumsy, the points im essentially trying to make are the following:
aziraphale definitely has respect and admiration for humanity - and this is in part due to things about humanity or that humanity has come up with that aziraphale personally enjoys
he indeed doesn't invite humanity into his inner sphere, or actively seek it out (your eg: bookshop and pub), and its his innate benevolence as an angel that manifests as friendliness and politeness
but i do think he does inevitably end up forming connections with certain individuals out of his tendency to kindness and protectiveness, even if he doesn't intend on forming those connections originally
whilst he may not have huge emotional investment in these relationships he unwittingly cultivates, they certainly have meaning to the other party
and whilst he may not feel any deep attachment to individual humans, he does seem to develop more personal sentiment as time goes on.
i think it's fair to say that the bonds, significant or otherwise, that form between aziraphale and individual humans appear to be a byproduct of his kindness and potentially of his protectiveness. that would track, given his perceived original purpose on earth, but i think aziraphale carries out his duty a little more subjectively than was originally intended.
he was sent to earth as guardian of the eastern gate which, by my reckoning, was more to keep danger out of eden rather than to directly protect adam and eve. but he hears they are to be exiled from paradise, will be thrown into the cold whilst eve was pregnant, and gives them his flaming sword as a means of protection. the scene from s1 doesnt show that they converse to any extensive degree, or that there is any significant interaction between them, but from aziraphale's recount of it, it does appear to be out of kindness and anxiety about what will happen to them without it (immediately proved right by the lion sequence). i don't think it would therefore be much of a stretch for adam and eve, retrospectively, to look back on their brief interaction with aziraphale as meaningful, and that there would have been an idle outline of a bond between them as a result; but in aziraphale's part, his connection to them appeared to start and end with this rebellious act of kindness, rather than any deep, personal stake in their wellbeing - again, perhaps just sheer protectiveness over god's first humans (that he helped to design and bring into being?) because to his mind it was the right thing to do.
next that springs to mind is shakespeare; whilst this could be seen as self-serving, i don't think that's entirely the case. it wasn't until shakespeare was whining, "been like this every performance, juliet, complete dud; it'd take a miracle for anyone to come and see hamlet!" that it seems to even occur to aziraphale that he could do something to help. he does push this on crowley to perform, but it is essentially his idea. and actually... what would aziraphale have to gain by it being more popular? he's seen the play and presumably enjoyed it, and whilst popularising it would perhaps mean he could see it again, i doubt he was thinking this deeply about it. instead, i think he just wanted it recognised as an act of kindness. he doesn't outright compliment the play (only compliments burbage), but the fact that he sees it as worthy of being made popular would indicate that it deserves it. the interaction he has with shakespeare didn't form any significant bond, but given shakespeare's exploration of fatalism in his work (especially hamlet), i don't think it's impossible that he would have looked back on this interaction as being potentially linked to hamlet's sudden (?) rise in popularity, even if he didn't fully understand just how true that is. again, a connection that to aziraphale maybe means very little, but to shakespeare may have meant a great deal.
then jumping to current day, aziraphale certainly appears to have possibly his most significant human relationship (as far as we can call it that) in the form of maggie. we know that she has been around the record shop since she was very young, and so has likely known aziraphale all that time, and he does seem familiar with her. it seems that it goes beyond friendly professionalism, or generic fondness; it takes him a while to understand the situation about the rent, and it's largely self-serving to forgive it, but the first interaction we see between them is aziraphale being kind enough to wipe the debt and allow her to keep her tenancy. again, yes, mainly so he has his steady supply of 78rpms, but the way he immediately jumps to "why? don't you like it anymore?", and "well it's entirely my fault for not collecting the rent!" feels like he genuinely at least has some feeling of protectiveness over her. when talking to her in the record store about nina in ep2, he again seems genuinely affected that she's upset, and that he can't quite help her with the issue. now, again, it may not be the case that aziraphale feels anything for maggie beyond fondness, almost like one would for a child, but her reaction on both occasions - and her subsequent protectiveness in kind over aziraphale come ep5 and 6 - indicates that from her perspective, whatever relationship they have with each other holds importance.
(caveat to the above, for anyone else reading - i do feel like there is something more to maggie, which ive half-heartedly theorised about, but may well look further into in the future. in any case, i think there may be more to why aziraphale and maggie have the level of connection that they do - and no, not that maggie is a demon)
there are multiple other interactions he has with humans that kind of follow the same theme. aziraphale seems to act out of perhaps self-interest predominantly, but there is always an element of kindness and/or protectiveness that comes along with it. and no, aziraphale doesn't appear to invite connection with all of humanity/just anyone, but i think this is the point; instead, i think he does evolve to entertain forming connections to certain individuals based on their own merit. i think it would be ever so slightly reductive to consider that he only does this out of angelic, detached benevolence, and instead i think it's a mark of a deeper personal character development; that aziraphale is allowed to form meaningful human relationships because his purpose on earth is no longer dictated to or audited by heaven, and he is free essentially to do as he wants. i don't think it's a stretch that aziraphale has suffered by his ostracism from heaven and the other angels, and other than crowley he has no interest in being friendly with demons; so why not open himself up to connections with the beings that he designed and nurtured, has protected, and has provided him with various means of finding happiness?
moving on to miracle ethics... yeah. the ball was a complete nightmare in this regard; aziraphale may have his ulterior reasons for the ball and it going the way it did (👀 @ crowley), but it is a huge violation in more ways than i probably could talk about and keep this answer length somewhat reasonable. that being said - did aziraphale even intend it to go as far as it does, or is he so furiously driven by his subconscious (?) motive to manifest a further development in his and crowley's relationship that even he is swept away in the tide? he remarks in ep2 that you cant just miracle up love, but instead he could create a situation (inspired by austen - what a dork) where it would happen organically.
there certainly isnt, as far as i recall, any intent on aziraphale's part to play god by assuring that the falling in love of nina will happen, but perhaps more in his own personal excitement for what the ball may precipitate for him and crowley, his power has manifested a bit more than he originally planned or even noticed. nina and maggie's comments about treating them like toys is still true - you could say that about humans setting up their friends or engineering blind dates etc - but i don't think aziraphale ever meant for the scale to be what it was. guests came in through the door in their fancy clothes; there's certainly no indication from aziraphale's perspective that they weren't already dressed like that (if he even noticed, frankly). there's nothing to suggest to aziraphale that humans wouldn't know how to dance the quadrille, and he doesn't partake in any conversations that sound like they are directly lifted from the pages of pride and prejudice. and that would parallel, as you said, his apparent disdain for the forceful removal of control that crowley seems to prefer to use. maybe this is a reflection on it being unkind and therefore against his angelic identification, or a more personal distaste for removal of agency (aziraphale seems pretty adamant in both s1 and s2 that being human comes with choices, even if the context in which he asserts this is... questionable).
as for aziraphale and his little dalliances with miracles being used in self defense; ill be honest LWA, im drawing a blank on when this occurs - other than perhaps the men that turn up in the shop threatening him into selling... is this the scenario you mean? (feel incredibly dim rn, but it's been a long day!)
#i havent proof read this btw - fuck it we'll do it live#getting LWAs really disrupts any ability to blog normally here#is it nervous anxiety or ocd that means i can barely post until these are answered? your guess is as good as mine lmao#anyway LWA IS BACK!!!✨#good omens#ask#flashback meta#crowley meta#aziraphale meta#s1 meta#s2 meta
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I love TV Crowley and I don't think he's a bad/unfaithful adaptation of book Crowley I just. I wish that when he says things like "I'm going to run off to Alpha Centauri" or something along those lines, about abandoning the Earth, more emphasis is placed on the fact that He Would Not Actually Go Through With That. Like for as much as he threatens to do so, when it comes down to it he truly cannot bring himself to up and leave the humans like Gabriel and Beelzebub did. It would grate on him and he'd end up turning right back around and I want something other than Aziraphale to be the clear, immediate reason for it. Crowley notably hates the 14th century and that was the century where over a third of the population (245 million people) died due to a combination of the Great Famine and the Black Death. I think about that sometimes idk.
hi (again?) nonnie!!!✨ you're good dw, i got what you were saying and it's perfectly valid; ultimately as i added to the tags of the last ask, for many reasons it's difficult to accurately translate a character to screen when you don't have the more overt narration of their internal thought processes, because these give great influence to how the reader should view the character.
its not at all bad (the way that book crowley was depicted in tv crowley), there are elements i like about each more than i do about vice versa (same for aziraphale, and anathema, and madame tracy and- you get the idea), but he is in many ways different. and i trust that maybe we'll see the other facets of crowley's character in s3, by nature of s3 perhaps being more solid in the original plan for the GO story in general (again, bc t+n discussed it)... particularly those traits demonstrated more in the book, because if there's a particular season where i think this is going to necessary, it's that one.
might be worth having a read of this first ask that i got from LWA✨ (if youre new here, first of all welcome! and second, Longwinded Anon/LWA is a legend in these halls for dropping their analysis of different elements of the story and characters in my ask box from time to time... they have truly elevated my way of thinking about the story that's perhaps a tad more critical than most, but i think that's important!!!). anyway, this ask has a bit of critique on book vs show crowley that might of interest!!!✨
#in this house all opinions are valid if you can argue them well enough#we entertain all schools of thought here especially critique#this is a safe space✨#good omens#ask#crowley meta
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Longwinded Anon (LWA)✨ gets their own special hotlink and dedicated masterpost✨mainly because im fed up of searching through my whole entire blog when i need to refer back to their asks:
oldest ones first:
ahhh, the first ever LWA ask, a golden post. i remember it fondly. my response as you can probably tell was just sheer incredulity that was sent to me, instant brain crush. anyway, talks about the influence of politico-moral dynamics on GO and how this extends to how we perceive crowley. i promise my responses get more intelligent after this.
more on crowley in terms of his arguably unreliable narrative and questioning the choices he makes as a result. in this i actually answer the first one as well as this.
see now im not 100% on this one but it sure does feel like it was LWA, maybe not... either way, full response/meta on who the second coming might be is linked within, as i elaborated on it more in a different ask.
this one gave me a cardiac arrest because LWA decided to spam me with everything they could possibly think of, it was so fun! so this time they talk about aziraphale and his own flaws as concerns his superiority complex and the damsel in distress nonsense, a bit about s3, the pre-fall scene and how this sets up the boys' dynamic, discussion on how long the boys have liked let alone loved each other, lucifer theory (sob), and who indeed the wider question on the angel that crowley was (AWCW) might have been. i responded with talk about aziraphale's insecurity, crowley's saviour complex, their love languages, aziraphale pre-fall, and (wails) lucifer theory.
talking about the apology dance and forgiveness between the two of them in general, and i added in a sprinkle of talking about manipulation.
here we discussed the whole business of crowley's temptation to get aziraphale to kill the antichrist (still a bugbear that crops up again later on in the LWA timeline), and more on crowley's tendency to push his protectiveness on aziraphale (and aziraphale laps it up). also talking about aziraphale's superiority complex again, and the nuclear miracle.
a little bit on the emerging topic of how GO looks at religiously allegorical literature, and a ✨challenge✨ to find where bits of the book may have been transposed or conceptualised into s2.
LWA kindly gave me their thoughts of where, if it does, the lockdown audio clip fits into the canon, and then more on the antichrist/aziraphale manipulation business and how the boys keep secrets from each other, as well as how it impacts on their individual morals. there's also, fair warning, a little bit of gentle but intelligent criticism on how this sometimes get mistranslated in fanfiction.
so here gets a little critical of the magic trick theory, but also similarly looks at some of the technical and narrative weaknesses of s2, as well as looking again at how lopsided the love-story element gets when we look at the boys' journey through history.
this looks at how GO is not a carbon copy of any one biblical text or piece of literature but is inspired by, and reimagines, a bit of everything.
a wee rant on the 'god ships it' trope and its moral implications. im sorry but it rubs me up the wrong way (but no shade at all meant to anyone who writes or likes it!), and i tried my best to explain why it does.
so this was following the startling (see: i was absolutely blindsided at 4am by this) confirmation that aziraphale did not in fact know about crowley living in his car. discussed why that might be, but also again a bit more on the antichrist shitstorm from s1 and its effect on the trust between them.
shorter one, once again examining the wider thought that the boys have loved each other since eden, and whether or not this actually has any validity when considering the narrative objectively as it's been given to us.
talking about the theme of rescuing, how crowley somewhat forces this on aziraphale and aziraphale plays into it, even though he can save himself - and what this might spell for their future
further ruminations on the holy water argument and what this spells for in 1941 and 1967
after a small absence, LWA came back!!! with analysis on aziraphale's willingness/disdain for forming human relationships, and a bit on the ethics of miracles too!
the one about 1650/aziraphale's stint as a bishop, about (as always) the boys' fumble with morality, and then about what will/should happen to heaven
LWA's ability to draw parallels absolutely everywhere is mind-boggling and im essentially that spiderverse meme pretending that i know what im talking about. this one was about aziraphale and his depiction with halos/aureola
this one was really difficult! talking about aziraphale and crowley's respective approaches to problem solving throughout the whole story, and how they both view the narrative of their relationship (such as it is) throughout history
they keep getting more challenging to respond to intelligently. getting into the nitty-gritty of how aziraphale and crowley operate in the grey, and what they ask from each other
it never ceases to amaze me that LWA actually reads any of my idiotic ramblings but here we are: some really fun (for me anyway) talk about shax and demon/angel abilities in general
talk about actions and consequences - and aziraphale and crowley's difficulty with understanding and accepting them - and subsequently the occasional fandom-blindness to this very thing ("Dead Whale Theory") (genius)
actually think this is my favourite one so far? talking about the extent to which crowley is content existing in the system, and how much he benefits from it, to the point that he doesn't model any resistant behaviour to aziraphale beyond malicious compliance and exploiting loopholes. lots more than that, and honestly i could have talked about this for a fortnight
LWA lurking in my walls again and choosing to haunt me by talking about, if there is trauma to be interpreted from crowley's fall, why would they have even talked about it? so goes into whether they were even friends for the majority of their association, plus some speculation on how crowley chooses to look back on their time together as having been in love for any great length of time.
wise words of comfort re: s3
okay so here is where LWA look closer at nina and maggie mirroring the boys, where their respective interactions are inappropriate (ie. nina's questioning of crowley and aziraphale's personal lives), how free will gets tampered with in their plotline, and where crowley in typical fashion ends up listening to the wrong part of the ep6 advice that they give him :(
AND THEY'RE BACK BABY✨ a long (lol like a month. calm yourself, rhi) awaited return, where LWA chooses to whack me over the head with questioning the power imbalance between heaven and hell, whether there is anything to say that heaven takes human souls in the first place, and why therefore aziraphale might even be told to do the things he does by heaven
and then on a lighter note; where and when would aziraphale have been a garden designer, as per furfur's little book? and if crowley actually indeed has a green thumb (open for debate)
LWA back to discuss a really good post that explored book vs tv canon, how far this extends into the book/tv characterisations, and then how s3 could resolve when the show has largely lost a lot of the political overtones
this one was really difficult but such a great point - compared to the book, aziraphale and crowley's 'issues' are divided up between them, and what results is that they do not understand or recognise how the other sees themselves, nor are they (imo) able to truly completely empathise with the other's position and beliefs (LWA tag was missing but they came back to confirm it was them!)
a spicy one that made me pace my living room a good few times - but an important one in that it goes further again into actions and consequences. love it love it love it
just a little one about how crowley - for all our thoughts on how he's got a finger on the pulse of fashion - might not really know how to dress himself properly
right i think ive captured all of them (sods law if i haven't, tough shit territory really), and this will be updated as they come in providing that LWA continues to haunt me. feel free to like or ignore, ill be linking this in my main masterpost anyway!!!✨
#no need to interact this is mainly for my own sanity and to keep things neat and tidy#good omens#the legend of the longwinded anon✨
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