#anyway I think there is a blight in the RWBY fandom

[onewomancitadel]

I say this as someone who lurked in the trenches cross-sites since Volume 1. I know. people. are never. happy.

[kitkatopinions]

I love how people will defend crwby when they give jackshit about rep and their fans. Like with clover (i know they didnt make it official but just look at eddies stupid tweet). They fucked up, it was queerbaiting, so the best course of action is to imply that harriet had feelings for clover and bad mouth the dead man. They could have just say "everyone of us was acting stupid and he died" nooo clover wouldnt leave qrow alone and robyn says later that clover is the lesser huntsmen. They could just say "hey clover was like a brother to harriet, she was his second in command, this hurts her very much" nooo clover was important for harriet, you know important. How does that even fit? They didnt have the balls to stand to their mistake and write about it, so they just twisted and turned so they could ignore what they wrote the last volume. Brilliant (and yes i will forever be bitter that qrow doesnt take responsibility for causing clovers death and just whines about his semblance)

Honestly, the way that Qrow/Clover was handled is a big blight on the company in my opinion. There's a great blog called @fairgame-was-queerbait where you can see lots of information about why Clover and Qrow was one hundred percent queerbaiting, and people are right to be mad about it.

The way that the writers really spent their time pointing fingers instead of actually admitting that they messed up... And the way that members of the fandom have been refusing to recognize it as queerbaiting, BYG, or problematic has also been staggering. This was something that deeply hurt LGBTQ+ RWBY fans, especially mlm that weren't otherwise represented. Eddy Rivas has apologized for the hurt fans went through, but not in a way that recognized that the hurt had been a direct result of their actions. And whether that action was directly intentionally contributing as a writer or just not checking the animation and marketing or letting the show go as is despite seeing it and knowing how it'd be taken, or never telling people not to get their hopes up and that the ship was not intended despite knowing that it was quickly becoming one of the more popular RWBY ships is besides the point.

Fans have been quick to say that obviously FG was unintentional and that Clover couldn't have been meant to be read as gay because "the writers would never do that," while ignoring Miles Luna's discussions regarding Pilot Boi. He had been told about how Bury Your Gays was a very harmful trope and therefore decided not to include Pilot Boi being gay, but then 'was kicking himself' over not doing it anyway because Pilot Boi was popular. The fact that these fans are so delusional to believe that the writers would never do something, when they literally expressed that they wished they'd done it. Why is it so hard to believe that the writers would cross that line with Clover when one of them openly regretted not crossing that line earlier?

(Although as a side note, I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say that Qrow 'caused' the death of Clover. Everybody lost braincells there in that fight and he definitely wasn't without sin and I for sure think he ought to have been guilty and taken responsibility for having broken Clover's aura, plus letting the blame fall to the guy who was literally fecking murdered was terrible. But Qrow didn't cause Tyrian to kill Clover, and he didn't cause Robyn to start up the fight in the first place when he and Clover were both being fairly peaceable at first.)

But! The way that RWBY said 'let's drag Clover after his death, imply things about his character that we never showed to be true, and have Robyn of all people say Qrow's just better than him.' Also, if Qrow really freaking cared about Clover in the show enough to keep that pin (that by all rights should've gone to the Ace Ops,) maybe he could tell Robyn to keep Clover's name out of her thin mouth, and be actually angry that she started the whole damn fight in the fricking first place. Honestly, I didn't like Clover at first and I don't ship Fair Game, but God almighty, the frustration I've felt watching the fandom start harassing people who liked him or the people that are mad about queerbaiting... Now I do like the idea of Clover and enjoy writing for him, and it's actually because of all the haters. So congrats to the RWBY simps, they've turned me into a Clover fan.

And if Qrow ends up with Robyn, I will... Post angrily about it. Using caps lock. After I finish vomiting over having to see it.

Here's the link to fairgame-was-queerbait again, I'd recommend anyone who wants to see the tweets and the screenshots check it out, I was so glad to find their blog and be able to see all this stuff for myself. It's honestly staggering that people are denying that there was queerbaiting, and saying that fans just 'invented this ship in their heads' or have no right to be upset. BTW, nobody better try that invalidating stuff in my comments. I'll block on sight.

[skybird13]

Clover and Qrow (or: The Importance of Relationships in Fiction)

I started writing this in response to @fairgame-is-endgame​‘s post here, but I figured I hijack enough of his posts and this got rather lengthy (🤷‍♂️ it’s me, so go figure). Please do go see the post so you have context. It’s a super short but very meaningful observation that I’ve been wanting to address anyway, so here it goes.

What gets me about this particular complaint is the fact that apparently, in the minds of some people, relationship building isn’t multifunctional in storytelling. People constantly accuse shippers of caring about nothing but the romance (and I admit, there are some shippers who are totally in it for the enjoyment of the romance, and there is nothing wrong with that, just let people have their fun for god’s sake). But a good percentage of us are running around performing doctorate level psychoanalyses and writing what could easily turn into Ph.D. theses (if some of us were so inclined) on not only the interactions between these two characters, but the ramifications on the individual development for each of them, the implications behind their connection, and how all of that can work together to build a stronger story overall.

Yes. Qrow’s screentime in volume 7 has been all about his connection with Clover (outside of that beautiful scene he had with Ruby in chapter… 4, was it? I don’t remember but y’all know which scene I’m talking about where he actually reassumes the role of the adult in their relationship, so much love for him). You know what lies inside that connection?

His healing, for one. Volumes 3-6 took Qrow through one hell of a character arc. He went from having a purpose to losing it, to falling into a serious depression and a bad, bad place with his alcohol abuse, and finally to a place where he started to drag himself out of that hole. CRWBY could have taken him literally anywhere in volume 7. Hell, they could have left his development right there for the entire volume and had him present solely to support Ruby and the others. But what did they do instead? They carried on his arc by giving him one of the many things he needs to heal: a healthy and functional connection with another human being. He hasn’t just been some background shadow there to back up Ruby (which would have been poor writing); he’s had his own development, brief but very carefully crafted to showcase how the end of volume 6 changed him and what he’s trying to do to cope with his mental illness and addiction. He’s openly acknowledging his problems and trying to deal with them. He is working with another person without complaint or fear that we have seen, and we all know how huge that is for him!

Story possibilities run rampant because of his relationship with Clover. Qrow has always been one of the most interesting and dangerous characters in RWBY, and that was as a depressed alcoholic. Can you imagine his potential as someone who is actively working towards being healthy? I’ve brought up the possibilities of what we might see if Clover can somehow help him gain control of his Semblance, and I don’t think that can be overstated. I find it very hard to believe that two characters who, especially when together, can manipulate probability won’t be instrumental in whatever RWBY and JNOR have to do to take down Salem.

And that’s not even getting into the potential impact that Qrow might have on Clover’s development. Some of y’all complaining because we don’t have much on him yet, but good lord, he was just introduced! And his introduction came in a volume bursting at the seams with plots and subplots and a hundred different things going on. Give him some room to breathe and develop over the next couple of volumes. (I also argue that if you have any critical thinking skills whatsoever, we actually have quite a lot on who he is as a person at the very least, even if we still know nothing about his backstory. Speaking of which!!! Did we get Ren’s backstory in volume 1 or 2? No! It came in volume 4. How about Ruby’s or Yang’s? Nope. Their backstory was piecemealed out across the earlier volumes. Weiss’s? Same thing. Blake’s? Same thing. Qrow’s? … you get my point. If you want a straightforward biography, don’t watch fiction.)

*deep breath*

Anyway, my point is that I’ve seen more than one comment complaining about shippers and even romantic relationships in canon because, somehow in some people’s opinion, interpersonal relationships (particularly romantic ones) detract from the story. But do you want to know what story is built on? What the best stories absolutely revolve around? Character. Wanna know what you have to have for good characters? Individual mental and emotional development. Change. And yes, relationships.

The relationship between Clover and Qrow (or Nora and Ren or Blake and Yang or anyone else) doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It’s all a part of the tapestry of the story that is RWBY. Pull the relationships out and you have something threadbare and boring as hell. I love the plot. I love the fight scenes. You have no idea how excited I am to see Qrow in action in the next episode, particularly as a member of a team again. I want some Harbinger action as much as the next person. But that’s not what keeps me coming back every week. I want to see Qrow fight because I love him as a character. Because I want to see how he’s changed, how he’s developed, how he’s going to function in this team unit after being alone for so long. The fights mean nothing to me if I don’t care about the characters involved. And a plot not driven by character motivation and change (while possible) too often feels forced and contrived. You want a good natural, genuine feel to a plot? Then what you’re looking for is a plot that is character-driven. And what did I just say about the things needed for good character?

Look, if some of you are totally fine checking in every week just to see some combat action, that’s cool. Whatever works for you is what works for you and I’m not going to criticize you for it. But don’t you dare come after those of us who are here for characters and character development like we’re some substandard blight on the fandom. Can shipping get out of control? Absolutely. Are relationships written badly in fiction all the time and are thereby guilty of detracting from a story? Of course. But the relationships in RWBY, and particularly the relationship between Clover and Qrow, are not guilty of that. (Hell, this is a show all about relationships and the strength we can get from those we love and care about! What the hell do you think activates Ruby’s eyes???) This relationship, like every other one in the show, is there for a reason, and as much as some of us (myself unapologetically included) might screech about the eye contact and the flirting and the potential meaning behind the tiniest interactions, there is a depth inherent in their connection that goes beyond a surface level romance. It’s all about who they are, what drives them, what they have to overcome, what changes they might still need to go through, what roles they still have to play in the story, and how they might push each other in new and different ways to become who they need to become in order to do what they need to do.

And that, my friends, is what we’re actually here for.