#anti kierarktina

[little-drunkhipsta]

List of my NOTPs, because I can:

1. Jegulus - I love Jily and i also see a lot of misogyny towards Lily from Jegulus fans.

2. Vegas x Pete - do I even have to explain ...

3. Stydia - idk, man, and the funniest part is that it's not because of Sterek. It is kinda about Stiles' weird behavior towards her tho. (Lydia choose me, pls)

4. Anything with adult people and Hermione. Stop, creeps.

5. Snarry - y'all are really weird, and I AM judging you.

6. Every incest ship.

7. Kierarktina - I don't like Cristina and I think it was really rushed (especially Kieran x Cristina part).

8. imma think about it and update it asap

[edwinspaynes]

this is completely out of curiosity - i don’t hate on people for their fandom opinions, that’s mean - but if you have particular reason/s, i was wondering why you dislike some of the tda mains? as someone who read the trilogy a whileee ago and had like neutral feelings on it, it generally always makes me interested in why people really like or dislike it, yk? no obligation to answer though ofc, no one has to have a reason for disliking smth esp in fandom

A couple of things. First off, none of them feel real to me. Besides Julian, I feel like I could break all four of the other TDA mains down into like 3 character traits, and I'm not particularly impressed by the single-layer characterization of any of them.

I also hate both main TDA ships. Jemma is codependent and toxic as fuck, and they're over-the-top horny in a weird/bad way. Like, fucking in a pool of your dead sister's blood is freakish, I'm sorry. And the way they engage with each other is creepy as fuck. At least they're both terrible and deserve each other. Kierarktina is the worst attempt at polyamory I've ever seen: an extremely toxic dynamic (Kierark), a random dynamic with 0 development (Kiertina), and a decent ship with forgettable characters (Marktina).

In any case, each individual character also sucks.

Julian is probably my most-hated TSC character (along with Jem for different reasons), and he is just a terrible, deplorable human being. I would have liked him as a villain, but Cassie went and made him a Nice Pancake Dad at the end with 0 ethical ramifications for his legitimately awful behavior.

Emma was interesting in Lady Midnight but becomes nothing but a wimpy Julian satellite who stares at that mediocre asshole of a white man like the sun shines out of his ass. Cristina has the biggest saviour complex I have ever seen in my life and is basically the supernatural equivalent of a white savior for faeries (I hope you know what I mean by that). Kieran sucks and lets Emma get whipped with no remorse, and he's just a really fucking weird dude in the worst possible way.

EDIT: I have been informed that he did indeed have remorse. It has been a while since I read the series. I still don't like him but okay

Mark is simultaneously an annoying manchild and a huge douchebag. Like, the best I can say for all of these people is "they deserve each other."

[dhampiravidi]

when you dislike the MC of a good series AKA Who Will Die in The Wicked Powers

damn, being petty enough to flip off the MC x canon ship in my (favorite) fandom is really kicking me in the ass--

yeah, basically I can't touch half the TSC stuff on Tumblr bc I'm so anti-Clace...(meanwhile I love literally every other character that's been in every Shadowhunter series)...& they're probably gonna have a wedding + kids in the next books (assuming Jace isn't killed)...

The Wicked Powers is most definitely gonna have the Princes of Hell as the main villains. I feel like Luke, Gwyn, or Izzy will die, since the younger Shadowhunters are supposed to be central & well...look at the couples who will be alive/extant by TWP:

SPOILERS FOR ALL SHADOWHUNTER BOOKS!!

Jace & Clary

Magnus & Alec

Simon & Izzy

Julian & Emma

Kit & Ty

Kieran/Cristina/Mark

Dru & Ash (& maybe Jaime)

Diana & Gwyn

Luke & Jocelyn

Tessa & Jem

(forgive me if I'm missing anyone!)

Jace already died once. Clary had dreams about dying, but those were shown to be visions of Thule. Based on canon events, I think they're Clare's favorite ship. SAFE.

Magnus almost gave himself to Asmodeus in CoHF. Alec almost-ish died saving Magnus in The Eldest Curses. Also, Alec almost died thanks to that poison demon in TMI (the one Magnus saved him from). Malec might end up forced to rule some region of Hell (reason unknown but I think it'll have to do with them beating/destroying Asmodeus). I feel like past events foreshadow Magnus dealing with the unfortunate sides of being a warlock. But he won't die--the "killing your gays" trope might actually save he & Alec.

Simon nearly died when the vampires attacked him (when he was a mundane), then when Valentine bled him pre-Daylighter (then Jace's blood saved him). He "sacrificed" himself to Asmodeus CoHF, in the form of his vampire immortality + memories (which he basically got back later on). Izzy...she's been through a lot psychologically & about as much as I think most Shadowhunters would physically. She lost Max & her dad. But she's a badass (I'm not faulting her for it, either). So I don't think she's safe.

Julian & Emma both lost their parents in horrible ways. Their whole series was about the parabatai curse (which, to me, was conveniently not mentioned in chronologically earlier series...probably because it wasn't invented til TDA was written, lol). They're kinda written to be the leaders of Livvy's Watch. SAFE.

Kit has his whole faerie power reveal shit to explore & he + Ty are some of the major characters in TWP. I'm pretty sure they'll spend the series healing their relationship. SAFE.

Kieran/Cristina/Mark will survive because 1) Kieran as the Unseelie King is an important Shadowhunter ally, 2) they're poly rep in YA, which is rare, and 3) killing one of them off would leave the others to mourn in such a weird way. SAFE.

I love Dru Blackthorn. She's one of the main of TWP, so I think she'll survive, plus tbh I don't think any more Blackthorns will be killed. Ash will probably end up as the Seelie King or as Clace's adopted son, to "redeem" Sebastian in a narrative sense. Jaime's sort of a main for TWP as one of Dru's love interests. SAFE.

Diana & Gwyn aren't main characters (though I like their romance). Diana also is the ONLY transgender person in all the books (unless I missed something). I don't think she'll be killed off. Gwyn might be just because I see the Wild Hunt as an important group in TWP & he might die protecting Diana (narratively, this shows strengthened faerie-Shadowhunter relations, despite the Wild Hunt being unaffiliated with either Court).

Luke & Jocelyn deserve to be endgame, but I could see Luke being killed off as one of those "MC's loved one is killed so the MC goes & avenges them" type of things. I love Luke & Jocelyn as characters, though.

Tessa & Jem deserve to be endgame, arguably, more than any couple. They were the mains in their series, then Jem survived but was sort-of-"lost" when he became a Silent Brother. Then he miraculously became a (mortal) Shadowhunter again when he was burned by heavenly fire, he just left the Clave behind to hang with Tessa (good choice!). Tessa has a baby & she's gonna suffer enough when she outlives Jem. SAFE?

[sprolden]

hi I was reading some of your tsc posts and saw you talking about how tlh character writing vs tmi and how cc’s maybe started actively making her chars more palatable because of criticism, I also think that while tda as a series is far from perfect (although it is my second fav after tid personally) it is one where, in books 1-2 at least cc took more risks imo with both the themes and the chars/dynamics being palatable in that way and fan response wasn’t always the best like with Julian being polarizing as a char, I also remember when I was in the fandom as the books were coming out a lot of weird moralizing about ships like people writing essays about how codependent and obsessive blackstairs are and how it was b a d to ship them and then shippers responding that no they’re not when like… a) of course they are that and b) it’s very fun and great that they are, codependency is sexy <3. Similarly weird morality discourse about Keirark/Marktina/Kierarktina at times. I think those things could have potentially influenced decisions for tlh especially your point about retconning what the original James/Grace story was going to be based on the whole vibe of the midnight heir. I also feel that while criticism of tmi definitely influenced some things about tda especially LM that departed from it TLH seemed very much like it wanted to imitate the success of TID and couldn’t fill her shoes, so that puts the writing in an insecure position.  all speculation ofc but just what that made me think about

ohhh thats interesting!! when tda was being released i wasn't really active in online fandom so i had no idea what the fandom response was. honestly, if julian was too much for the average reader, i get why she felt the need to change james from his midnight heir personality lol. blackstairs getting hated for codependency is very funny bc will & jem INVENTED parabatai codependency and everyone loves them for it <3

i think in general, flawed characters are a lot more acceptable now than they were a few years ago. i feel like in the mid/late 2010s, the general idea in YA was definitely that protagonists had to be exemplary people, and whenever a protagonist acted messily that would immediately be seen as bad writing, and i definitely feel like that that affected tlh (and even tda now you mention it!!)

i think you're right about tlh being influenced by tid a lot, or at least going for a similar vibe! obvious reasons aside, i feel like whenever people talk about tid's strong suits the main talking point is the lack of personal conflict between the main 3, because that created a really unique situation where the characters' relationships felt incredibly strong. and i think she maybe tried to keep that same idea of loads of love between the protags going in tlh, except that just left them kind of.... bland? bc in tid there WAS still loads of conflict between characters, just not the main 3, which kept it intersting.

that being said, i genuinely do wonder how an alternate tlh where james and grace kept their tmh personalities would have been received? i feel like this grace is still quite controversial even though i feel like her motives were explained extremely well and she's made as likeable as an anti-heroine could possibly be. i know the tumblr girlies and i would've ate it up but honestly... for an audience as big as hers, maybe it was the right move to make them more palatable? she could've absolutely changed other parts of tlh to make it more interesting, but when it comes to james and grace, well. who knows.

(on the other hand, it absolutely had to be james for tlh to be genuinely compelling. him not being allowed to break the herondale mold is imo the biggest wasted potential of this series </3 rip james who destroyed his carefully crafted family legacy you will forever be missed)

[cabeswaterdrowned]

ask game:

tsc (i’m sorry i always ask about them, my brainrot is strong and i love hearing your thoughts)

and community

don’t apologize pls lol I also am brain rotting hard and have few people to talk about it with so it’s appreciated :)

The Shadowhunter Chronicles

M/F OTP: there are others I really like or love in a more normal way, but Emma/Julian Will/Tessa and Jem/Tessa are the ones that hit on another level for me emotionally, I’m clinically insane about them. Also it’s a bit hilarious to think about, since this was formative media for me (I first read TID in late elementary/middle school and TDA as they were coming out in high school) how my taste in ships generally speaking was shaped… like if you look at pairings I gravitate towards in other fandoms since there are def patterns xd. The impact!

Other M/F ships I have love for (including this category because ik i don’t talk about them as much and in another fandom where I had less dynamics I’m super fond of to choose from I could have placed them in that first category think of them as like second tier Otp’s for me ): Mark/Cristina, James/Cordelia, Simon/Isabelle (last one also was formative they were thee hot girl/soft boy nerd ship to me in middle school. But it has been a while so unsure if they’d hit the same on reread, they are the tmi couple I would most like to see in the better in black collection though!)

M/M OTP: Jem/Will! And then follow up Kit/Ty Surefire ways to get me invested in a ship: they do necromancy together, meet cute with a knife to the throat, they break up without ever dating. Triple check.

F/F OTP: along those lines it’s Lucie x Grace literally the main reason I want to reread TLH (well I do also just want to see how it reads back to back and not broken up and I have other reasons but like. Those are less important) is to be able to properly write fic about them, like it genuinely pisses me off this fandom is so boring and tasteless I can’t believe I actually miss the legacies fandom they were annoying as hell but at least they understood that when women do dark magic together it’s polite to write detailed analysis of how gay they are 😭. The way I know cc has seen Buffy too like flop. Also it just fits archetypes of antagonistic femslash I tend to love in general see: Julia/Marina Aria/Alison Elena/Rebekah and more

OT3: Herongraystairs and then Kierarktina

Friendship OTP: Tessa & Magnus + Will & Magnus! And for familial relationships I adore all The Blackthorn siblings in TDA and their dynamics but especially Julian and Mark’s relationship is v compelling to me and I also love Cordelia and Alastair’s relationship v much it was my favorite overall development in TLH. And then for psuedo familial dynamics I Love Charlotte’s relationships with Tessa Jem Will and Jessamine. her relationship with Jem might be my softest spot overall especially because they have moments in CP2 that make me go 🥺 but as a documented Tessa lover I adore how having Charlotte as a mentor figure effects her arc. So those are my favorites Ik I failed at picking just one. Oh I also adore Emma and Cristina’s friendship although I also sometimes ship them romantically

Canon OTP: Blackstairs Wessa Jessa like I said

Crackship OTP: what even counts as crackship? I will admit that during my CP reread I did look up how many Will/Magnus fics there are on ao3 although I did not read them (there are 12 for inquiring minds).

Anti-OTP: The worst ship to me is Jordan/Maia but it’s been a long time so the vitriol has worn off and I don’t have another solid notp besides them but the other canon pairings I’m #unimpressed with are Clace Ghostwriter and Gracetopher … Lucie/Jesse probably irks me the most these days because I actually want to like them because the concept is so good but the execution falls flat for me and I really like Lucie and want someone more interesting for her (like Grace lol.)

Community

M/F OTP: ultimately when I’m actually watching the show it’s Jeff/Britta love their emmaxknightleycore vibes. But I did get really into Abed x Annie at one point and even wrote some fic about it over quarantine (when I first got into Comm) so I have a soft spot for that concept too

M/M OTP: Troy/Abed. They of course are The otp of the show.

F/F OTP: not really otp status but well I did write this Annie x Britta Carmilla Au: https://archiveofourown.org/works/27728689?view_adult=true

(I orphaned that account post quarantine)

OT3: Troy/Abed/Annie

Friendship OTP: I mean all the study group dynamics but I especially have soft spots for Annie and Troy + Abed and Britta moments

Canon OTP: Jeff/Britta

Crackship OTP: what even counts as crack …

Anti-OTP: I just don’t like Jeff/Annie I used to viscerally hate it these days I’m just like. It’s not for me lol.

[anticassieclare]

Alright so kierarktina kinda bothers me. I know that they’re the first poly relationship to be seen in the books and that they’re cute and everything, but there’s the thing with the age gap. Cristina was 13 when Mark was taken away by the faeries, and he was 16. When he came back five years later, he looked 18, if I remember correctly. So when Mark came back, he was 21 mentally and Cristina was 18. Time travels and works differently in Faerie, plus Kieran was in the Wild Hunt as well, so Kieran probably didn’t age like a human either. His physical aging was probably put on hold like Mark’s. He’s also been tortured from a very young age and been through a lot of hardships, so his mental age is probably older as well. That means in their relationship Cristina is 18, Mark is 21, and Kieran is older than 18. I dunno but their age gaps are kinda bothersome, considering that Mark’s age was put on hold while Cristina grew up and he came back when they looked the same age. That’s kinda sketchy.

[tarantye-no]

Kierarktina makes me SO mad you have no idea. This ship is so unnecessary and ridiculous. It’s nothing against one of those characters as individuals don’t get me wrong, I love Cristina, Mark and Kieran. Throughout the three books every move of those individual characters towards that ship feels SO forced and wrong I cringe at the slightest hint of it. 

I never had a ship in a book (i don’t ship) that makes me SO angry and frustrated. Wow.

(Yes I am a Kierark shipper but that is absolutely NOT the point here)

[looking-for-all-the-fucks-i-give]

I wish there were more people who disliked things in TDA/TMI bc like???? Shit is so repetive all of her series are just giant love stories building up until they conviently fix the issue realize they can be happy then consummate there love.

And not even that but like damn sometimes I just want to talk about plot holes shitty character development and Unnecessary add ins with out getting attacked and dragged through hell. On that note I love the series kinda sorta i forced myself to read TDA bc of the friend and as per usual the romance killed me but I pushed through (first and foremost for a friend) secondly bc I fell in love with the other characters and what was happening as a whole. And honestly I’m scared of finishing the last books bc spoiler keirarktina (i hella don’t stan) and bc it seems hella idk in love like why is it when ever anyone has a moment to themselves it’s about love like what is the actual point bc I didn’t know your my life could be over family is endanger crisis is the time for all of you to decide your hella in love and stupid // (I know that’s not the whole book but holy shit past Livvys funeral? that’s about it bruh for the next few pages of (Few like 100 and something) I cant shit talk TMI past what everyone already knows bc I don’t remember half of past gay panic relationship panic and incest wait panic

[clockwork-artifices]

Thoughts on there being an anti Cristina tag & people talking about marktina fans as awful people?

I was just going to post something about that, but I guess I´m just gonna write it here. First, I think it’s completely stupid, like seriously, why would you hate on cristina? because she is too smart? too kind? too understanding?. And about marktina… because they care and respect each other too much? There are no real reasons for people to hate them.

Obviously, I know there´s also “hate” on kieran and kierark. The main difference, at least for me, and for the people that are supposedly “hating” on them, is that most of those posts are analyses, critics, pointing out cannon facts (whether some of you recognize it or not), and not talking out of our asses (as some people like to call it).

I have seen some people on here having this weird notion that there´s some kind of ship “war” between kierark shippers and marktina shippers, or some competition to demonstrate “which is the better couple” and that´s why marktina shippers hate on kierark so much. Which is completely wrong. I don’t think we “hate” or dislike kierark because OF marktina, we dislike kierark because of how that relationship is. Because of how unhealthy and borderline abusive they are. That’s why we pefer and like Marktina more. This is not about proving “which is better”, we already know which is better. This is about the fact that there’s a couple that is far from healthy and basically the perfect example of how abusive relationships work, yet people still romanticize and justify that. And Somehow they are still the most popular couple, while the other (the better couple) doesn´t get half the attention that this one gets (and why? because they are not two cute yt boys). That’s why we are “annoying” being vocal and “ranting” about it. That’s why I won´t stop “hating” on them.

Lastly, I do agree with the person who made that cristina hate tag that kierarktina is a very convenient and stupid solution, that it will be so much better if cc focus on one couple instead of trying this (messy) poly arc, which is actually, imo, the most forced relationship in this series. So, as kierarktina seems to be reason for this hate toward Cristina (and the erroneous idea that she is the one getting in the way of their “lovely” ship), why not “hate” on it, instead of wasting his/her time hating on Cristina and Marktina.

**btw, isn´t it funny how kierark shippers were whining about this so called Kierark/kieran “hate” (which wasn´t even hate, but mostly critics about them and people explaining their dislike with valid and logical reasons) but now **some of them* ended up doing the same thing and worse because they don´t even have valid points to make lmao.

[stillintoshadowhunters]

kierarktina haters/dislikers: send me an ask telling me why you don’t like kierarktina and i’ll tell you why you’re wrong

about half the ship tag right now is people whining about how they don’t like the ship, instead of, you know, actual ship content

i don’t have the time to reblog every single post explaining why you’re wrong Plus i prefer to avoid contributing to “op was wrong now we reblog this discourse about how they’re terrible” culture

but there’s good news!  my ask box is open and i’m ready to have some heckin Opinions

stay tuned for my book-long kierarktina meta posts for lord of shadows and queen of air and darkness, which i am compiling as i reread said books! 

[edwinspaynes]

i didn’t read tda so i’m genuinely curious, why do you dislike kierarktina 👀

"I haven't read TDA" O anon, to be you. I am jealous.

I don't care about any of them as characters, so that's probably part of it.

I actually like Mark x Cristina. I have no stake in either character and don't care much, but they are cute and connect interestingly.

My main issue (on a character level) is Kieran x Mark. They're really codependent and toxic- not to the same degree as Emma and Julian, but yeah. Their entire relationship was formed because they were both Lonely and There, and they're just so... desperate to hold onto it even when it's a fish dead in the water?

My main issue (on a writing level) is that Cristina and Kieran get no development as a couple. I see a spark but an underdeveloped connection. They're not well written as a duo or as part of a triad.

It felt like Cristina was just thrown into Kierark as a buffer for their chaos and codependency, which is unhealthy for everyone. It's not good poly rep at all.

It felt like Cassie was going to make it Mark x Cristina but saw that everyone wanted a poly ship and just made them poly. I actually kind of empathize with this because she would have gotten so much backlash otherwise. Can't blame her. A poly ship would have been great, but not like that.

[little-drunkhipsta]

I wanna read qoaad, because of Malec, Jessa, Kit, parabatai curse, HALINE, Dru and to see how it all ends but knowing that kierarktina is canon fucked it up for me? I mean, I know ships shouldn't be the most important thing but they are my not3. I would like any ship better. Also I read there are lots of sex scenes? They are kids???? Cassie wtf calm down. Also i feel like she fucked up kitty because i loved their friendship even more than a ship and i would hope that it is stronger than anything and then we get this shit????

[kierancfthehunt]

Kieran Haters: Kieran was abusive and obsessive!!1!11!!1

Cassandra Clare: No he wasn't *long ass list of valid arguments*

Kieran Haters: suddenly I can't read

[littlx-songbxrd]

Regarding what you said about there being parallels between Kierak and thomastair, I honestly think there are parallels between a lot of the relationships because CC tends to hit the same beats in her narratives. But yeah there's definitely a lot of parallels between kierark and thomastair but it's interesting how the narrative seems to have more empathy for Kieran then for Alastair gee I wonder why?/s

But the fandom really disliked Kietan back when TDA was still on progress. Like I remember being in the TRENCHES fighting for that man at age 17. And I know there are definitely people who still don't like Alastair but it seems like a lot of the hate towards him has calmed down now, and that has nothing to do with the narrative imo but it's still very critical of Alastair. I think people may have gotten slightly better at empathizing with marginalized characters? But then again, I only really interact with people who are pro Alastair so I might kind of be in a bubble.

Anyways I'm sort of tempted to say Kierark are better written then thomastair but the kierarktina arc is basically over now whereas we still have one more book of tlh.

Sorry this all over the place lol.

Yeah I can definetly see that CC reuses a lot of similar plots and ideas (nods to most (to not say all) of her leads falling into the forbidden romance territory) but this was, actually, somwthing i hadnt quite connected. Which is funny kierark was one of my favorite parts of tda. I loved their dinamic, and when kierak became kieraktina dhjfhfjdkdkfkd

GEE I WONDER WHY HUH. I WONDER WHY

Ok so i came very late to the tda fandom so most ive seen are the REMNANTS of kieran hate. Now no one really talks about him which is a shame. But I can see why the fandom would do him like that. However, Alastairs character in the fandom is kind of debatable. Like Alastair fandom is only relatively chill on tumblr. Yeah you see an anti every once in a while and perhaps some extremly bad takes but nothing too bad.

Outside of this plataform its chaos i promise. Back when i initially really got fixiated on tlh, like now I can say tlh is just a relative obsession and interest but back when chog cake out no that was a fixiation for me that was almost 3 weeks of sleep breathing eating any and all content on tlh.

But I didnt have tumblr so I had to get my sources,,, in other places. Every book review I watched of tlh treated Alastair horribly. Every instagram blog literally dragged his name through the mud. I literally only came to see Alastair in a positive light when i downloaded this hell site 😭

I went back to watch some reviews when choi came out and they were AS bad if not worse. Maybe im just annoyed but god if i have to hear one more white person talk about how insignifucant alastairs racial issues are i will throw smth.

Ive seen reviewers go as far as call Alastair homophobic for treating mathew badly 😭😭

Anyways i feel like we all live in a buble here cause were chill bit outside the buble they hate his guts and i want to unread that one confession page that said he was hoping he'd die in the first book so they didnt have to deal with him.

Oh no. Kieraktinas arc is way better written and how i see this going

I love thomastair but will admit i love it vecause i basically rescued it from the mess that is their canon. I dont have a lot of hope for chot.

[heavensenthearty]

I agree that the anti-Katara/pro-Zukka discourse is blatant mysogyny that usually comes hand in hand with the fetishising of m|m couples. I don't know how much race intervenes in this specific case, but that could be just me being oblivious to the takes of the racist fans with who I do not interact, but I know enough to tell they form a big part of the fandom.

Now, about the fetishising issue, I'll be the first to admit I've lots of m|m ships, some of them are interracial, some of them are at ship wars with other m|m ships; I have w|w ships, I have polyamorous ships. The problem isn't about shipping LGBTQIA couples, it's about doing it with honest intentions and critical thinking to recognize if some aspects of those relationships are less than ideal. It doesn't have to go as far as to tell if they are healthy or not, only if they have the foundation for that relationship to develop further.

I think I have the perfect example for this, one of my polyamorous ships, Kierarktina (Kieran x Mark x Cristina) from The Dark Artifices Trilogy.

Many people think the development of Cristina's (another brown-skinned female character) relationships with Mark and Kieran, who were in a relationship with each other before meeting her, was rather rushed. At first, the main conflict came from Mark having different dynamics with Kieran and Cristina separately, yet he felt attracted to the two of them; he had known Kieran for a long, long time but they were imperfect individuals with an imperfect relationship, he had met Cristina for only a few weeks but they clicked instantly (not in insta-love kind of way). The point is that there was space for their connection between them (all of them) to deepen and improve, and it does after they spend three books together with hella lots of up and downs.

Same with one of my m|m ships from another trilogy, All for the Game, Andrew and Neil.

So let's see: three books together, lots of ups and downs, the narrative and the other characters acknowledging when someone does something wrong, that same character redeeming themselves to regain the trust they lost. Between Zutara and Zukka, one of them meets all those requirements and the other... doesn't.

Ironic that the one that does meet the requirements is a m/f ship, huh? Since I only gave LGBTQIA examples (one of them which has two bi boys, btw)...

Because all relationships, independently of their sexuality, need more than two episodes together to grow. And pushing random "steamy" scenes into whatever little growth they might have proves nothing but that you focus only on the most superficial aspects of the ship — which isn't something bad, but is far from being as woke or as supportive of LGBTQ rights as people is trying to put it 😒.

I'm kinda a lover of both zutara and zukka ( personally I love any ship where zuko has a happy and healthy relationship, and sorry mai lovers but mai and zuko isn't really healthy for either of them) I don't understand why there needs to be a need to hate on sokka or katara depending the ship.

I don’t particularly care for Z/ukka. It’s cute, I guess, but they don’t really have a lot of scenes together aside from The Boiling Rock and even then, half the time Sokka is with Suki. So I don’t really... go there lol.

But what I really hate about the more agressive Z/ukka shippers from the ATLA Renaissance is... exactly that. The agressiveness and hate.

But honestly, I’m not surprised. I’ve seen it before. For different reasons. 

People feel threatened by ships that have more chemistry than theirs when A) they don’t think half of of the threatening ship “deserves” the member that is in their ship and B) they need reasons to seem more woke while shitting on a marginalized character.

Is this about Rey/lo? Yes. This is about Rey/lo.

(I’m going to preface this by saying I’m White. So if I’m overstepping, please tell me.  People have talked a lot more eloquently about this than I ever could. I recommend Okiro’s videos on Youtube especially.)

Why do you think people hate Finn so much? Why do you think they love Kyle Ron so much? Why do agressive Rey/los hate John Boyega so much and have boycotted against him since the very beginning? Why did they pick the only white man Rey interacted with during The Force Awakens? And why did they harass everyone so much that Lucasfilms had to backpedal during TLJ and TROS, keep Finn and Rey as far away from each other (across an entire GALAXY no less) as possible, and push her towards KR for no logical narrative reason? Putting Finnrey in canon limbo ever since?

You know why.

Because Finn, a Black character, is in the way of their precious White ship.

I’ve seen the same thing in The Musketeers fandom where the character Athos (spoiler alert) meets a lovely woman named Sylvie (pronounced Seal-vee) at the beginning of the last season and ends up with her. Who did the fandom want him to end up with? Milady, the manipulative villain woman who had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Why? Because Sylvie was played by a Black woman and Milady was played by a White woman. At least the Three Musketeers writers didn’t chicken out of that one.

And I lasted a DAY in that fandom, for crying out loud. As soon as I saw the lack of Sylvie content (Athos/Sylvie is one of my OTPs from the show) I backtracked VERY QUICKLY out of that tag lol. 

Similarly, why do people hate on Katara when they ship Z/ukka? Especially since it’s not a White ship? And especially since Sokka is literally Katara’s brother, so he’s not more light-skinned than Katara. In this very case, it’s misogyny. Plain and simple. Canon has a fascination with gay ships and, while that’s fine in theory, they love to push the female characters off to the side very easily, doing this for both Suki and Katara. But Katara gets a lot of hate because Zutara is SO popular (which is awesome!). It’s the most popular ship of ATLA, so instead of hating on Mai (who is kind of a blank slate and can easily be cut from Zuko’s love life, sorry Mai/ko), they hate on Katara, the main female character who has a deep connection with Zuko in canon. 

@heavensweetheart following that Z/ukka salt post, would you agree?

[ghostjesse]

tsc, if no one else has said it then hp

thank you, mollie 💕🥵

• my favourite female character

Cristina Rosales and Cordelia Carstairs, couldn’t pick one of them

• my favourite male character

Matthew Fairchild, such an icon, but also Kieran and Alec

• my favourite book

uhhhhh can’t pick one 😣

• my favourite ship

Kierarktina ❣️

• a character I’d die defending

George Lovelace

• a character I just can’t sympathize with

Zara

• a character I grew to love

Alastair Carstairs

• my anti OTP

James and Grace