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cappymightwrite · 3 years

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How do you see Jonsa playing out in the next two books?

Hi!

Oof that's a big question and I probably have more of an idea regarding Winds than I do Dream, to be honest. There's certain things I feel fairly confident on, but within that there are a few ways things could go, which I'm undecided on. So, I'll list those, but beneath them give some variables/extra thoughts. Now I could be wrong, this is just my opinion... but here we go!

Jonsa in The Winds of Winter

Sansa will be leaving, or more specifically, fleeing the Vale, perhaps as early as the end of Alayne II

I have no doubts about this happening, what I'm less sure of are the events that will enable this departure. Although there are a few Chekhov's Guns in play that seem likely to pay off early in Winds:

The mountain clans have been "growing very bold," ever since the Blackfish, the former Knight of the Gate, left in AGOT, but this mention of them becoming more unruly is stated in ASOS, Sansa VI, and then again in Sansa VII — "The mountain clans were being troublesome as well [...] The Vale of Arryn might have been spared the worst of the war, but it was hardly the idyllic place that Lady Lysa had made it out to be." There are also members of the mountain clans who have met Sansa Stark, including Timett One-Eye, because in AGOT they decided to follow Tyrion and fight in the battle on the Green Fork, Timett and Shagga then become part of Tyrion's household in King's Landing.

Ser Shadrich also seems like a gun that's about to go off — we first meet him in AFFC, Brienne I, where he tells Brienne "You are not the only hunter in the woods. I seek for Sansa Stark as well," and for a large bounty too. By Alayne II of AFFC, he has met Alayne Stone, and by TWOW, Alayne I, it seems fairly clear that he knows exactly who he's dealing with — "A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that's not likely, is it?" Something is going to happen with this guy, for sure.

It is also possible that Harry the Heir will be injured or even perhaps die during the tourney of the Winged Knights. If this does happen, I think it would serve to create a opportunistic moment of chaos, in combination with the mountain clans attacking, in which Ser Shadrich could then make his abduction attempt.

So, I can't exactly say how things will go down... maybe there will also be a sudden shift in her perception of Petyr as her last resort protector that will make her feel unsafe? Nevertheless, I'm sure something will go down though, and it'll be the catalyst needed to propel Sansa north, in the direction of the only living relative she knows for certain she has... to Jon Snow.

Meanwhile, Jon will be warged into Ghost

I'm pretty confident this is what's happened, because the last word Jon says in ADWD, Jon XIII, is "Ghost", and this idea of warging in order to avoid death is introduced in the prologue of that same book. I've talked a little bit about how warging in ASOIAF, at least to me, seems very Old Norse inspired — this idea of the hamr and hugr.

But where is Ghost-Jon going to be? I think it's likely that Ghost-Jon will break out of where he's being kept in Jon's chambers, and then head south... I think this is likely because one of Jon's last thoughts is a reference to Arya — "Stick them with the pointy end." Plus, as we know, Jon was planning to go south to Winterfell in order to rescue her, though of course we know that girl wasn't Arya, and Jeyne Poole is now actually heading towards the Wall.

I'm not 100% certain Ghost-Jon will head south, it may be that he stays at the Wall to guard Jon's body? I'm not sure. If he does go south though, I think that could be very interesting, because it could enable a crossing of paths with one Sansa Stark. In fact, I explored that idea in my very first Jonsa fanfic, heavily inspired by the Old Norse-Icelandic Eddic poem Völuspá — Varg-hamr/Wolf-skin.

Sansa will be the Girl in Grey that Melisandre foretold

I'm 100% a believer in this theory. It's her. It's Sansa.

"[...] I have seen your sister in my fires, fleeing from this marriage they have made for her. Coming here, to you. A girl in grey on a dying horse, I have seen it plain as day. It has not happened yet, but it will." – ADWD, Jon VI

"It has not happend yet, but it will", and in The Winds of Winter.

The girl. I must find the girl again, the grey girl on the dying horse. Jon Snow would expect that of her, and soon. It would not be enough to say the girl was fleeing. He would want more, he would want the when and where, and she did not have that for him. She had seen the girl only once. A girl as grey as ash, and even as I watched she crumbled and blew away. – ADWD, Melisandre I

That last line... oof, that's Sansa, but more specifically, it really alludes to Alayne Stone, as well as the dismantling of that identity, the reclaiming of Sansa Stark. I explored a similar kind of crumbling/shattering imagery in my meta about Alayne II, AFFC:

She went up as Sansa, comes down as Alayne, but will “press on” as Sansa. Also the imagery of something “coming down”, i.e. falling away, breaking away is significant. We are seeing the dismantling of Alayne and the reclaiming of Sansa, though this is masked by every time she calls herself “bastard brave” or “I am a bastard too” in this chapter. But this breaking away, the fragility of this guise is literally mirrored in the landscape around her: "Here and there the stone was shattered from the strain of countless seasons, with all their thaws and freezes. Patches of snow clung to the rock on either side of the path, blinding white." – AFFC, Alayne II

"She crumbled and blew away" recalls, to me, the image of Alayne Stones descending from the Eyrie to the Gates of the Moon, and how those are, unknowingly, just barely hinted at, her first few crucial steps towards becoming Sansa again — and Jon is intimately connected to that, as noted in my meta.

Sansa and Jon will be the first Starks to reunite

It could be, like I explored in my fic, that they first meet with Jon warged into Ghost, with Ghost-Jon saving Sansa from hunters — possibly Ramsey's men, not knowing who she is, but just looking to torment a vulnerable girl?

"I saw water. Deep and blue and still, with a thin coat of ice just forming on it. It seemed to go on and on forever."

"Long Lake. What else did you see around this girl?"

"Hills. Fields. Trees. A deer, once. Stones. She is staying well away from villages. When she can she rides along the bed of little streams, to throw hunters off her trail." – ADWD, Melisandre I

Either way, this theme of seeking safety will be prevalent:

"The girl," she said. "A girl in grey on a dying horse. Jon Snow's sister." Who else could it be? She was racing to him for protection, that much Melisandre had seen clearly. – ADWD, Melisandre I

I'm uncertain whether Sansa will actually be present for whatever catalyst/action is needed to return Jon's spirit (his hugr) to his body (his hamr), of if she'll turn up post-return. But I do very much like the idea of her meeting Ghost-Jon first though, and maybe this bit in Feast is a hint towards that:

There was ice underfoot, and broken stones just waiting to turn an ankle, and the wind was howling fiercely. It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, big as mountains. – AFFC, Alayne II

In any case, I think she will make it to Castle Black, clearly ticking off the Girl in Grey prophecy, and then will be instrumental in Jon's recovery. Possibly, maybe, they won't reunite at Castle Black? They'll reunite somewhere closer to Winterfell? My instinct is Castle Black, but I think I've seen a bit of debate on that. What I'm fairly certain on is that Sansa will soothe Jon with her sweet singing at some point:

[...] Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. – ADWD, Jon XIII

But this theme of healing goes both ways, they will help heal each other, "protect one another, keep each other warm, share [their] strengths." And this will be in distinct contrast to all the other unbalanced relationships they've experienced previously.

Their previously hidden dynamic will be revealed to us

I think Winds will be the book to finally reveal what Jon and Sansa's relationship was like pre-canon. E.g. were they always distant, or was there a time when they weren't? Moreover, I think we'll be able to have the definitive answer on whether the pre-canon crush/kiss theory is a thing or not — I discussed it in my most recent post on Jon + the Byronic Hero, with several previous metas included on the topic.

Hopefully we'll get some shared memories revealed to us in any case!

A forbidden romance will develop between them

I've talked about whether or not we'll get a full blown romance in Winds previously, as well as some (not that serious) speculation that Jon may actually parallel Elinor Dashwood from Sense & Sensibility, in terms of how he initially conceals his feelings for Sansa. So, check that out, if you're interest... but forewarning, everything I write tends to be pretty long, because I literally cannot control myself... I mean, case in point right here, lol.

Reclaiming Winterfell (+ Knights of the Vale)

I think they will return to Winterfell before the parentage reveal, but probably some confusing, angsty feelings will already be underway. I do tentatively think Stannis will win the battle in the ice, because the Night Lamp theory is so compelling (or it was last time I read it)... but then I think things will, without a doubt, go down the shitter for him, and yeah, I will cry because Stan is my problematic fave, ok? I expect things to get very dark in that section of the narrative, and for Jon's return to his body to be a part of that dark descent, but I'm hazy on the exact details. Beyond that though...

I think it's very likely that the Knights of the Vale will be instrumental in the fight for Winterfell, because you have Sansa (as Alayne) meeting several knights in her chapters, becoming very familiar with the Vale houses, and you also have this piece of foreshadowing:

"[...] Jon Arryn's bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon... and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back... why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright [...]" – AFFC, Alayne II

The Vale, as of yet, hasn't been a fighting presence in the wars at play, so that's another Chekov's Gun that needs to go off. Add to that the Royces' strong connection to the First Men, to the Starks, as well as those mysterious distant Stark cousins:

"Your father's father had no siblings, but his father had a sister who married a younger son of Lord Raymar Royce, of the junior branch. They had three daughters, all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest... it might have been a Templeton, but..." – ASOS, Catelyn V

...it seems like the Vale has been primed by the narrative to become key allies of the Starks moving into Winds, and later Dream.

The end of the line for Petyr Baelish

I'm not exactly sure where this will fall in the order of things, but it is pretty heavily foreshadowed as taking place at Winterfell:

"[...] I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow." – ASOS, Arya VIII

"Look, here comes a giant to knock it down." He stood his doll in the snow and moved it jerkily. "Tromp tromp I'm a giant, I'm a giant," he chanted. "Ho ho ho, open your gates or I'll mash them and smash them." Swinging the doll by the legs, he knocked the top off one gatehouse tower and then the other.

It was more than Sansa could stand. "Robert, stop that." Instead he swung the doll again, and a foot of wall exploded. She grabbed for his hand but she caught the doll instead. There was a loud ripping sound as the thin cloth tore. Suddenly she had the doll's head, Robert had the legs and body, and the rag-and-sawdust stuffing was spilling in the snow. – ASOS, Sansa VII

I think it's probable that Littlefinger will arrive with the Knights of the Vale — if Harry isn't dead already, maybe he'll fall in battle. Certainly, Jon will be with Sansa, but potentially the great Stark winter round-up will have gotten under way and there may be other Starklings present during his trial as well? Either way, Sansa will be instrumental in his end... but actually, maybe also Sweetrobin too? Now that's an interesting thought, because afterall, Petyr did murder his mother.

Jon's parentage will be revealed, resulting in much angst but also relief?!

Like I said, I think the reclaiming of Winterfell has to occurr before the reveal, so this monumental moment could be a good half-way point in the book. I've played around with how I'd personally like the parentage reveal to impact Jon and Sansa's relationship, in my fic Beneath My Bones. In that I leant more into Jon being the most aware of his feelings, and then Sansa coming to a full realisation post-reveal.

I don't know for sure if that will be the dynamic, but in the above metas I linked that's sort of where my instinct is on the subject. I like the idea of the reveal causing a lot of mixed emotions, for it to be this double-edged sword... the long awaited answer to Jon's questions about his mother, but an answer that completely disorientates him for a hot sec. Ultimately though, I'm always in favour of the reveal resulting in a doubling down on Jon's Stark identity, rather than him suddenly taking up the mantle of Aemon Targaryen (if he does have a Targaryen name, I think that is most likely what it is).

I think they will probably be back at Winterfell for this. That seems to be the most impactful setting for this to occur, particularly when you consider the recurring dreams Jon has of the crypts — maybe we'll actually have him go down there, to face the statue of Lyanna? Also, it's generally considered that Howland Reed is going to be the one to spill the beans, so it makes more sense to me that they'd cross paths at Winterfell, rather than the Wall, or anywhere else in the north.

Northern political players and inheritance crisis

I lowkey really like Barbrey Dustin as a character, and I like how she reflects that, actually, northern allegiances and relations are a bit more complex that they first appeared, way back in AGOT — not everyone loves the Starks, not everyone gets on with each other.

Once the Boltons have been dispatched, there's going to be a power vaccuum in the north, centered at Winterfell. We know Lord Manderly has already planned ahead for this by sending Davos Seaworth on a mission to find Rickon Stark on Skagos. So, I do think there is going to be a really interesting dynamic between the northern lords and the reunited Starks, with Jon and Sansa at the head of the Stark contingent. Indeed, there's several factors to consider when thinking about who is going to inherit, either the wardenship, or Robb's crown:

Most Immediate Obstacles

Rickon's whereabouts and fate — you could get a power struggle for regency if Rickon becomes a major factor, and isn't unduly killed (please god no). The Manderlys certainly seem interested.

The annulment of Sansa's marriage to Tyrion — another Chekov's Gun, which I feel has to come back into play in Winds. Say Rickon isn't killed off, and there's a struggle for who has control over the north as his regent... marrying Sansa would strengthen that position as regent quite substantially, so there may be a vested interest in the north to dissolve this unconsummated marriage.

The perception of Jon as Rhaegar and Lyanna's son — was there a secret bigamous marriage? Which holds more weight, being Rhaegar's son or being Lyanna's? Jon was made Robb's heir, but does that still hold water?

Less Immediate Obstacles

Bran's whereabouts and fate — is Bran going to join back up with the Starks in Winterfell at some point? He is in the north, so isn't miles away from the great Stark winter round-up I see happening.

Arya's whereabouts and fate — currently in Braavos, but likely to catch a boat back over to Westeros at some point in Winds.

My instinct is that the northern politics subplot will be deliciously factional and messy, as a stark (heh heh) contrast to what it is that makes the Starks the heart of the series:

"[...] When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths [...]" – AGOT, Arya II

But also as a contrast to the threat of the Others, the real, most pressing issue everyone in Westeros needs to face, together. What I'm worried about, and unsure of, is whether or not Rickon may in fact die somehow. But I do think it would be a wasted opportunity not to have this regency crisis, because it seems fairly well set up with the Manderlys. That being said, maybe GRRM will do it, have it on the brink of being resolved, then cause more chaos by having him killed? I don't know. Really, in terms of foreshadowing, the two big contenders for becoming the ruler of the north are... Jon and Sansa.

I know what I'd like, which is for them both to rule the north by the end of the series, together in a loving and supportive partnership, that harks back to Ned and Cat, but this time better, more honest. How we'll get to that endpoint, I'm not sure, but I think someone is going to be put forward as the favoured monarch of the north, though ultimately, my instinct is we'll get Queen Sansa... but also consort/king Jon, and part of their regeneration of the north will be to resettle the Gifts with the displaced wildlings.

A Jonsa marriage will be hinted at as a solution

There's a lot of marriage foreshadowing and imagery within both Jon and Sansa's chapters, and I think the narrative in Winds, building on the developing romance between them, will really start to foreground this possibility. BUT I think it won't be without its obstacles, chief among them the marriage to Tyrion. We need an annulment, or we need him to die. I know I've mentioned Chekov's Gun as a literary device several times already, but this is another key one... I wouldn't be surprised if it's used against the Starks/the north in some way.

So, I'm unsure if we'll get a Jonsa marriage in Winds, but I do think it'll be hinted at in some way, either as just a logical narrative answer, or by the characters themselves, possibly. GRRM will want to leave some key moments for Dream and I wouldn't be surprised if a marriage between Jon and Sansa is held off until then, because lets not forget... there's also a war against the Others that is going to be going on! Marriage, and one motivated by love (but with definite political advantage), could fit really nicely into the bittersweetness of the last part of A Dream of Spring.

Jonsa in A Dream of Spring

This is where it becomes a bit hazy...

There's several plot points left unresolved at the end of A Dance with Dragons, extending back to Feast, as well, so it's easier to continue on those narrative threads and speculate about Winds than it is Dream, I think. That being said, I can tell you what I personally think the vibe of the ending will be trying to emulate...

Obviously, The Lord of the Rings is a big influence on GRRM, but looking one step before that, to Tolkein's influences, you have the Gylfaginning section of the Old Norse Prose Edda. Huh, what?

Ok, this is building on my belief that GRRM is heavily inspired by the myth of Ragnarök in relation to the storyline up north with the Long Night etc. I have an ongoing meta series about these parallels (coz I study Viking and Medieval Norse and I've got to put that knowledge to use somehow!). Eventually, I will talk about how I think the "dream of spring" in the final book will draw from the descriptions of the aftermath of Ragnarök, as detailed at the end of the Gylfaginning. But here's the key passage in question:

53: Then Gangleri asked, "Will any of the gods be living then? Or will there be anything of the earth or the sky?"

High said, "The earth will shoot up from the sea, and it will be green and beautiful. Self-sown acres of crops will then grow. Vidar and Vali survive, as neither the flood nor Surt’s fire destroyed them, and they will inhabit Idavoll, the place where Asgard was earlier. To there will come Thor’s sons Modi and Magni, and they will have Mjollnir with them. Next Baldr and Hod will arrive from Hel. They will all sit together and talk among themselves, remembering mysteries and speaking of what had been, of the Midgard Serpent and the Fenriswolf. Then they will find in the grass the gold playing pieces which the Æsir had owned. [...]

"In a place called Hoddmimir’s Wood, two people will have hidden themselves from Surt’s fire. Called Lif [Life] and Leifthrasir [Life Yearner], they have the morning dew for their food. From these will come so many descendents that the whole world will be inhabited [...]

I'm very much a Jonsa optimist and it's due, in part, to the above passage. Yes, I think ASOIAF will end in a "bittersweet" way, but I think too often more emphasis is placed on the bitter than the sweet when we consider that ending, and also when we consider Jonsa's ending too. Basically, I think the "dream of spring" is very much tied to Jonsa, in fact, it doesn't really work without them, not fully at least. Because you have this appreciation of the natural world in both their narratives, this fantasying about possible future children, the desire to reclaim (Jon) and rebuild (Sansa) Winterfell... all of that is evident in the last chapter of the Gyflaginning.

To parallel the Old Norse, I do think we'll see the Long Night end, just as the Fimbulvetr/Ragnarök end, and then spring will come: "green and beautiful." Unquestionably, there will have been painful losses — key figures, like Óðinn + Þórr, die in the final battle — representing the "bitter", but there will also be those who survive to then re-establish a new order: "Then they will find in the grass the gold playing pieces which the Æsir had owned."

I mean, not to be too literal about it, but I think Lif and Leifthrasir will be echoed in Sansa (Life) and Jon (Life Yearner), because, come spring, they will be the ones to continue on the Stark line, and from them "will come so many descendents." And I don't think that really works if you've got Jon exiled at the (fallen) Wall again. I think it only works if they are in the same place, at the same time, together... because that's the sweet to the bitter — this abundant spring after the harrowing winter, the promise of future generations, of life and love preservering, despite all the pain and loss (the bitter).

One of the things about the end of the Gylfaginning, which is commented upon by scholars, is that it likely represents the transition from pagan belief into Christianity, the end of the old gods, the old order — the Prose Edda was written by the Icelander Snorri Sturluson in the 13th C., so notably post-conversion. There is a (maybe unintentional on the part of its author) bittersweetness present, this feeling of an end of an era, to the conclusion of the Gylfaginning, that you likewise see reflected in the ending of The Return of the King (and we all know how influenced by Old English and Old Norse Tolkein was). So, taking into account all that GRRM has said about how he wants to tonally emulate Tolkein's conclusion, this is the vibe I expect from the ending of ASOIAF.

But whether we'll ever actually get that bittersweet ending though... who can say!! Also, maybe everything I've said will be completely wrong! I think it would make for a good story though ;)

Thanks for the ask!

#jonsa #jon x sansa #cappy's thoughts #plot predictions #asoiaf and norse mythology #anti grimdark all the way babeyyyy #I've probably missed some things out?? i don't know

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cappymightwrite · 3 years

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What are your thoughts on Ned Stark ?

Hi!

I have conflicted feelings on Ned. Probably just below Stannis, he's the Westerosi man most in need of therapy, in my opinion. Actually, that's an interesting comparison — Ned and Stannis, which I know has been commented on before. They're alike in many ways, in terms of reserve etc., which makes the fact that Robert saw Ned as his true brother all the more painful to Stannis (though of course this is never explicitly stated). But anyway, back to Ned.

There's certain things I struggle with in regards to Ned, even though I understand the reasoning behind his actions, or rather, inaction. So, it makes thinking back on him in a wholly positive and fond light somewhat difficult, as I suppose it must be for Sansa in a way, as well as for Jon, once his parentage is revealed. I don't wholly dislike him though, I actually value him a lot, I just take issue with:

Him never apparently trusting Catelyn enough to be honest about Jon's parentage (+ the way he avoids telling Jon, to some extent)

No matter how loving they were... there is this unresolved (and now forever unresolved) barrier at the heart of their relationship, an unequal exchange of trust, which was within Ned's power to lift, to make fully mutual. But he didn't. Now, he had his reasons, self-sacrificing and seemingly honourable as they may appear, and certainly the narrative required this secret to be kept. But even so, in terms of how I regard his character? It rubs me the wrong way because he never gave her the opportunity to sympathise and fully understand him, he cut himself off from that. And yeah, maybe it might not have improved Jon's situation all that much, but he never gave Cat the opportunity to think of him differently, in a way that wasn't dictated by the social mores of their world:

It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.

That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. She had come to love her husband with all her heart, but she had never found it in her to love Jon. She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse. – AGOT, Catelyn II

"It was the one thing she could never forgive him" — yeah, me too honey! Ok, sure, we don't know for sure if Cat might have "overlooked" Jon's uneasy place in their household "for Ned's sake", if she knew he was actually her nephew — the world would still believe him to be Ned's, so to outward appearances the awkwardness is still there. And yeah, we don't know if she could have "found it in her to love Jon", but the truth certainly would have made it far more likely! But Ned decided that it had to be this way, that only he could participate in carrying this secret. So, I hurt for Cat AND Jon really.

I get why he doesn't tell Jon the truth. I understand his warped logic, how the trauma of his past informs this sort of self-punishing mentality of I must keep this honourable promise made of love till the day I die even though to the outside world it will appear as a stain upon that very honour... and to punish myself further for failing Lyanna I will never unburden myself to anyone, this is my cross to bear alone. I understand that, it's very manpain-y. But the problem is... it doesn't just punish Ned, it punishes Cat and Jon, and his other children too! Because they are by no means blind to this elephant in the room of their parent's marriage, and it's hard to rationalise:

He looked at her uncomfortably. "My aunt Allyria says Lady Ashara and your father fell in love at Harrenhal—"

"That's not so. He loved my lady mother." – ASOS, Arya VIII

Your father loved your mother, but he also had a child with another woman, whose identity he would never talk about. Your father loved your mother, but his dedication to this secret ultimately trumped being fully honest and open with her. It's hard not to feel that Ned's present came second to making up for the "sins" of his past. This is why he desperately needed therapy, lol, because (to take a line from my Byronic Hero meta) Ned's "traumatic past informs his present life," and to the detriment of that present life and those present relationships as well. But hey, that's the tragedy.

Also, I think his whole I'll tell you the truth when I next see you to Jon is really sketchy, because when exactly might that be, Ned? An avoidance tactic if I ever saw one. But really, I don't think he'd be emotionally equipped to have that conversation anyway... he might have said he'd tell him someday, but deep down, I'm sure he hoped he may never have to. And then he conveniently dies, taking the secret with him (or so we think)!

Allowing the death of Lady

Bran's wolf had saved the boy's life, he thought dully. What was it that Jon had said when they found the pups in the snow? Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord. And he had killed Sansa's, and for what? Was it guilt he was feeling? Or fear? If the gods had sent these wolves, what folly had he done? – AGOT, Eddard IV

"And for what?" Yes, quite. I don't really have much to say on this... I think this passage speaks for itself. There's probably some other things I could talk about, but those are my main two gripes.

That being said... what I value about Ned are his words of wisdom

The thing about Ned, for me, is that despite the unmaliciously meant pain he inflicts on his loved ones (which I do understand the reasoning behind, the trauma that informs it etc)... he's still ultimately a figure of hope to me, a notably flawed, but no less significant, ideal within the narrative too. And I think you need that — we need the memory of Ned as readers, and so do the Starklings. So, I love him more for what he represents, rather than his parenting and lacklustre husbanding skills. I value the fundamental truths he emphasises through his words, and the legacy of those words, embodied within his children.

For example:

"Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. So if you must hate, Arya, hate those who would truly do us harm. Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa… Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you… and I need both of you, gods help me." – AGOT, Arya II

Honestly, people can "squabble" about which Stark sibling is more important, more this, more that, till the cows come home. But that's what it is... "squabbles", and it misses the mark completely about why the Starks are the heart of the series. They are the Starks, plural. They may be different from one another, but they are "pack", and come winter, (TWOW, to be exact), once reunited they will "protect one another, keep each other warm, share [their] strengths", because those are the values Ned taught them.

These are the things to remember, despite all the hellishness. This is why Ned's death wasn't in vain, it wasn't an edgy twist, or the first whiff of grimdark... because his legacy didn't end with him, it lives on, it is felt throughout the series, right up until the most recent book:

"Be that as it may. My father sat where I sit now when Lord Eddard came to Sisterton. Our maester urged us to send Stark's head to Aerys, to prove our loyalty. It would have meant a rich reward. The Mad King was open-handed with them as pleased him. By then we knew that Jon Arryn had taken Gulltown, though. Robert was the first man to gain the wall, and slew Marq Grafton with his own hand. 'This Baratheon is fearless,' I said. 'He fights the way a king should fight.' Our maester chuckled at me and told us that Prince Rhaegar was certain to defeat this rebel. That was when Stark said, 'In this world only winter is certain. We may lose our heads, it's true… but what if we prevail?' My father sent him on his way with his head still on his shoulders. 'If you lose,' he told Lord Eddard, 'you were never here.'" – ADWD, Davos I

I love this line so much, and I love that it comes from Ned, that just as we are gearing up to head into the darkest parts of the series (because Winds is apparently going to be very dark)... we have this light, this hope, this "what if we prevail?" And it's connected to this repeated refrain about the certainty of winter — "in this world only winter is certain" vs. "winter is coming" — which is closely tied to Ned as a character. So, yes, "winter is coming", but don't be decieved into thinking that that spells disaster, that no warmth can be found, for there is always darkness before the dawn, just as there is always a winter before the spring... and in the winter the wolves shall "keep each other warm", they will "prevail."

In conclusion

Whatever his flaws and mistakes, and there are several, at the end of the day... I will love Ned for giving us hope, for reminding the readers, and characters, of what is really important — to take strength from your loved ones, to give them strength in return, and to not give into despair, no matter how harshly the snows might fall and white winds blow. Yes, it's not certain whether they'll live, but likewise, it's not certain whether they'll die either... and that's where you find the hope, the light against the grim dark.

So, for me, he's a character who makes my heart sink, but then he makes it swell again. That's the duality, and it's a choice which you put most stock in... I'll choose the hope he inspires every time ;)

#ned stark #eddard stark #cappy's thoughts #starklings #anti grimdark all the way babeyyyy

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