#anti e/ucien

[acourtofquietdreamers]

“Elain said she needs sunshine and Lucien is the heir of the Day Court. Elucien endgame confirmed 🥰”

You mean this scene?

The scene where Elain is physically with Lucien, but leaves him to go to the SUNNY garden in Velaris? That’s the scene that foreshadows Lucien as what she needs?

That scene actually reminds me of a previous scene where Elain is enjoying the sun in the townhouse garden (in Velaris)…with Azriel.

The scene where they sit in silent companionship and Feyre sees them and wonders “Why not make them mates?”

But I guess that means nothing.

[rizzoreads88]

Lucien knows Elain does not want to be with him romantically. This is why he gives her all the space.

Lucien talking to Feyre about Elain..

“And do what?” “Spend time with her.” “I don’t think she’ll tolerate two minutes alone with me, so forget about two weeks.” His jaw worked as he studied the fire. Acofas

So this whole “Elain leads Lucien on and it’s not fair, she just needs to tell him so he can move on ” is not even canonical.

& it seems as if Lucien is starting to move on…

“So Lucien can’t be unbiased in reporting to us on Vassa.” Mor nodded gravely. “Lucien might mean well, but any reports would be skewed—even if he isn’t aware of it—in their favor. We need someone outside of their little bubble to collect information and report.”Acosf

“Vassa nodded. “It is all I have gleaned from my time enslaved to him.” Lucien stared out the window—as if he could see the lake across a sea and a continent. As if he were setting his target.”Acosf

“well Lucien looks at Elain with sadness and longing in Acosf”

Feyre was sad over Tamlin & still loved him when she started falling in love with Rhysand in acomaf.I don’t think Lucien is in love w Elain by any means but just using this as a point that you can still have lingering feelings when you start to let someone go.

[viridianevergarden]

“He brought you a present.”

“And that entitles him to my time, my affections?”

“But he is a good male.”

“And that entitles him to my time, my affections?”

“He cares for you.”

“And that entitles him to my time, my affections?”

No. No it doesn’t.

He could be a Saint and it still wouldn’t.

I’m tired of people glorifying this guy and ignoring what he’s done too.

I’m tired of people saying “she needs to give him a chance!”

She does not.

She doesn’t want him. It’s obvious.

The irony of people dick riding the whole entitlement schpeel regarding Az but when it’s L and E all the sudden he is entitled to her affections because he’s a “nice guy.”

I’m sorry I’m a little heated lol. This isn’t meant to be taken too seriously.

But at the same time it is.

[silverlinedeyes]

Never forget that we (as in @icedflames @merymoonbeam @offtorivendell @mrspettyferr @dietkoke @wingedblooms @daisymydaisy @willowmeres and I’m sure others whom I’m forgetting right now) have theorized since ACOSF came out in 2021 that Truth-Teller might be used to break or unMake the Elucien mating bond.

Truly can’t wait for ACOTAR5 😭😭

[gardenfaerie222]

I see this quote everywhere, so call me delulu if you will but I’d like to give my 2 cents

Tension: we see this already, Elain can’t stand being around Lucien, he makes her uncomfortable and he doesn’t even know if she’s worth it. They’re awkward around each other.

Growth: getting to know one another and deciding together they just don’t fit romantically, and both rejecting the mating bond or deciding to reject it

Healing: finding love outside of their bond with other people while acknowledging the role Lucien played in Elain’s trauma and Lucien healing from thinking Jesminda was his mate and thinking it was his fault she died, maybe even finding friendship in their bond without romance.

Idk like I said just my two cents, feel free to call me delulu in the comments

ps: I would be happy with either couple in elains book, I just think the rejected mating bond/forbidden romance is so yummy and a really unique idea (for a sjm book specifically)

[emmitaaa4]

i usually try to ignore the other side’s posts, but tell me why i just saw them say Gwyn has shown more interested in Azriel in a few months than Elain has in an year (+) ??

pardon 😃

they’ve internalized the idea that Elain “cant stand just how much she desires Lucien” (he’s just so nice and soo hot; she must want him deep down) that it has muddled what she’s actually showing us.

Cause apparently now her interest in Az is dismissible. Great.

[go--ichi]

Do Elulu stans actually compute anything in their head? Or see everything through their lulu lens? How can you read these passages and somehow get anything resembling chemistry between these two? I doubt they ever read anything with Reformed rake trope if they think that's how they act when they are in love. Reformed rakes are popular because they actually have charisma when it comes to wooing the LI lol. Anyways endgames behave differently but not so different that they suddenly lose all their charisma around their 'endgame' and make the boldness of their LI go away. When tf sjm ever wrote a endgame and supposedly fated mates like this before?? When???

What is actually in the book (Acosf):

Oh why do I torture myself by reading this shit. Lulu stans have to be the most annoying ass part of this fandom. I had a hunch this user had some headache inducing takes and lo and behold:

....idk why I even bother. I doubt even an elriel book will break their delusion atp 😔

[emilyondemand]

“I'd much rather the path that Elain herself is refusing to take at this point.”

This is why I can’t take el*ciens seriously.

[viridianevergarden]

And people still regard him as an angel or a saint, saying “he did nothing wrong!” And “He’s precious! He’s just a baby!”

How can you sit there after seeing him enable everything?

“I’ll try to talk to [Tamlin]” isn’t enough. He never stood up for Feyre. He never tried to break the abuse cycle. He never tried to get her out of there even while he watched her physically wasting away and dying. And what’s worse, he followed her like a bloodhound, pleading with her to take her back because Tamlin wanted her to return??? Hellllll no.

How can you like someone like that? With his choices, he’s no better than the actual, physical abuser.

I truly dislike Lucien and people wonder why, yet the truth is right in their face. They just choose to ignore it and remain in denial to appeal to their own fanon.

And half of it is just because they dislike Elain so much.

The mind boggles.

“Feyre was the reason her and Lucien’s friendship broke up. She mistreated and abandoned him”

Short answer?

Lucien would disagree.

Long answer?

How the fuck are you say that Feyre making fun of Lucien in Acofas is what ruined their friendship when she stopped considering him a friend long before that because of his actions?

The breaking point for Lucien and Feyre’s friendship was when he put her abuser’s feelings over hers and tried to put his hands on her without her consent all to force her back to her abuser.

“But Lucien was also being abused”…you being a victim does not give you the right to create other victims. Lucien’s abuse did not give him a right to enable Feyre’s. When she got out of her abusive situation, he had no right to try to force her back into it. Hurting people to appease your abuser still puts you at fault because it’s you who is still hurting those people. You are playing a part in causing pain to other people rather than dealing with your own. Lucien is not faultless for trying to force Feyre back to Tamlin. This 300+ year old man feeling pressured by his friend to kidnap the 19 year old woman that he spent months abusing is not a good enough justification for his actions. It never will be.

“But Lucien thought that Feyre was being abused” So his solution was to…take her somewhere where he knew she was being abused? Lucien thought Feyre was in danger and he thought the solution was to bring her back to a man who he witnessed almost murder her…twice? That’s your mastermind? It’s clear that in forcing Feyre back to Tamlin, Lucien wasn’t thinking about her emotions but Tamlin’s. Lucien was more worried about the abuser’s peace of mind then the victim’s. He does not care about Feyre if that care goes against Tamlin and his feelings. Feyre’s safety and mental state is completely disposable to him if that means Tamlin is happy.

And what makes the situation even more fucked up is Lucien knows. He knows how years of abuse can break a woman down because he’s witnessed it happen to his mother. He tried to force his “friend” into the same situation his mother is in. You can’t claim that he was ignorant to the signs of abuse or the way abuse effects women because for most of his life he’s had a front row seat to it. Lucien’s mother would look down on him if she knew the full scope of his role in Feyre’s abuse.

And lastly, Lucien can’t be considered the better friend based off the simple fact that even after all of this, he’s still holding out hope for reuniting with a man who has abused and violated his friend in so many ways. You cannot claim moral superiority for him whilst he gets mad at Feyre because her husband had a few words for her abuser. Bucking up to a woman when you’re upset but not the man who made you upset in the first place? He’s always been a laughable character.

[thinkinthoughtsalot]

This one moment from ACOWAR haunts my dreams. I cannot wait until we get an explanation for this moment it Elain's book.

Why did Feyre instinctively look to Az for the answer? Amren and Rhys were both there. Wouldn't either of them have been the more obvious choice to ask? Why were Azriel's eyes churning? What was he feeling? Why did he need to get away so quickly? Why was Mor left staring at where Az had been standing? What truth was she sensing there?

And why does it feel so much like this moment from ACOTAR?

[acourtofquietdreamers]

“Why don’t you ship Elain with her mate? Don’t you know Sarah is a fated mates author?!”

Let’s take a look at Elain’s mate vs….

The person Feyre pictured with Elain and smiled.

“Autumn Court males have fire in their blood—and they fuck like it, too.”…Lucien caught me cringing at him when her words replayed for the tenth time an hour later…I shook my head, trying not to imagine Elain subject to that…fire.

“And I think Elain—Elain would like it, too. Though she’d probably cling to Azriel, just to have some peace and quiet.” I smiled at the thought—at how handsome they would be together.

The person willing to save her himself.

Lucien was shaking his head, panting, and whirled to us. “Get her back,” he snarled at Tamlin over the ranting of the king.

From the shadows near the entrance to the tent, Azriel said, as if in answer to some unspoken debate, “I’m getting her back.” Nesta slid her gaze to the shadowsinger. Azriel’s hazel eyes glowed golden in the shadows. Nesta said, “Then you will die.” Azriel only repeated, rage glazing that stare, “I’m getting her back.”

The person who made her feel at ease during their first meeting.

As Lucien took off his jacket, kneeling before Elain. She cringed away from the coat, from him

But Azriel’s attention was on my sister, a polite, bland smile on his face. Her shoulders loosened a bit.”

The person she can sit in comfortable silence with.

It was the most uncomfortable thirty minutes I could recall.

Elain sat silently at one of the wrought-iron tables, a cup of tea before her. Azriel was sprawled on the chaise longue across the gray stones, sunning his wings and reading what looked to be a stack of reports—likely information on the Autumn Court that he planned to present to Rhys once he’d sorted through it all. Already dressed for the Hewn City��the brutal, beautiful armor so at odds with the lovely garden. And my sister sitting within it.

The person who knew she didn’t need anything.

Lucien murmured to me, eye still fixed on Elain, “Should we—does she need …?”

“She doesn’t need anything,” Azriel answered without so much as looking at Lucien. Elain was staring at the spymaster now—unblinkingly. “We’re the ones who need …” Azriel trailed off. “A seer,” he said, more to himself than us. “The Cauldron made you a seer.”

The person who understood her and saw her when no one else did.

“Did you sense anything?” “No—I didn’t have time. I felt her, but …” A blush stained his cheek. Whatever he’d felt, it wasn’t what we were looking for.

Lucien just stared and stared at my sister, as if he’d never seen her before.

It made sense, I supposed, that Azriel alone had listened to her. The male who heard things others could not…Perhaps he, too, had suffered as Elain had before he understood what gift he possessed.

The person Elain enjoys spending time with.

Elain, at least, would be too polite to send Lucien away when he wanted to help. She was too polite to send him away on a normal day. She just ignored him or barely spoke to him until he got the hint and left.

Azriel and Elain remained in the sitting room, my sister showing him the plans she’d sketched to expand the garden in the back of the town house, using the seeds and tools my family had given her tonight. Whether he cared about such things, I had no idea.

The person she has palpable chemistry with.

Cassian’s heart strained at the pain etching deep into Lucien’s face as he tried to hide his disappointment and longing. Elain only shrank further into herself, no trace of that newfound boldness to be seen.

Then his gaze shifted to Elain, and though it was utterly neutral, something charged went through it. Between them. Elain’s breath caught slightly, and she gave him a shallow nod of greeting before brushing past, leading Nesta into the room.

The person who gives her a gift that she wants to wear right away.

He and Lucien did not exchange gifts, though the male had brought a gift for Feyre and one for his mate, who barely thanked him after opening the pearl earrings.

“It's beautiful," she whispered, lifting it from the box. The golden faelight shone through the little glass facets, setting the charm glowing with hues of red and pink and white. Azriel let his shadows whisk away the box as she said softly, "Put it on me?"

The person who looks at her and only thinks of her.

But there she was. His mate. She was nothing like Jesminda.

Soft steps padded from under the stair archway, and there she was. The faelights gilded Elain's unbound hair, making her glow like the sun at dawn.

This supposed “fated mates author” has made it really difficult for me to ship Elain with her mate when a much more compatible option is right there. Four books with moments that solidify Azriel as the person for Elain, mate or not.

[silverlinedeyes]

YES totally. My favorite comparison (and the most illuminating IMO) uses your same Lucien quote but a different Az quote:

Lucien: “But there she was. His mate. She was nothing like Jesminda. She had chosen him. Elain had been…thrown at him.”

Thrown at him. Like she is unwanted. Or unwanted by him at least.

Azriel: ““The Cauldron chose three sisters. Tell me how it's possible that my two brothers are with two of those sisters, yet the third was given to another.”

Given to another. Like she is a gift. Or would be a gift to him 😭😭

Look, look at the build up, the crazy tension, we're just waiting for them to jump and kiss each other 😍:

“I want to see her. Just once. Just—to know.” “To know what?” He hitched my damp cloak higher around us. “If she is worth fighting for.”

But there she was. His mate. She was nothing like Jesminda..... She had chosen him. Elain had been … thrown at him.

Elain blinked slowly. “You were in Hybern.” “Yes.” It was all he could say. “You betrayed us.”

I nudged Elain, who blinked at me, then blurted, “You could come to Velaris.” He saw all of it, but nodded graciously. “It would be my pleasure.”

He hadn’t mentioned Elain, or his proximity to her. Elain had not asked him to stay, or to go. And whether she cared about the bruises on his face, she certainly hadn’t let on.

Elain, at least, would be too polite to send Lucien away when he wanted to help. She was too polite to send him away on a normal day. She just ignored him or barely spoke to him until he got the hint and left.

How Lucien withstood it, I didn’t know. Not that he’d shown any interest in bridging that gap between them.

“You’re welcome to stay for the night,” I said, since Elain certainly wasn’t going to. Lucien lowered his hands into his lap and leaned back in the armchair. “Thank you, but I have other plans.” I prayed he didn’t catch the slightly relieved glimmer on Elain’s face.

My sister rose to her feet. “I should get refreshments.” Lucien rose as well. “No need to trouble yourself. I’m—” But she was already out of the room.

Give her time to accept it.” “To accept a life shackled to me?” My nostrils flared. “That’s not what I meant.” “She wants nothing to do with me.” (hope antis would also get the hint lol)

“Spend time with her.”“I don’t think she’ll tolerate two minutes alone with me, so forget about two weeks.”

“He brought you a present.” Those doe-brown eyes turned toward me. Sharper than I’d ever seen them. "And that entitles him to my time, my affections?”.... “He cares for you.” “He doesn’t know me.” “You don’t give him the chance to even try to do so.” Her mouth tightened, the only sign of anger in her graceful countenance. “I don’t want a mate. I don’t want a male.”

Elain only shrank further into herself, no trace of that newfound boldness to be seen.

Her brown eyes were wary. Usually, that look was reserved for Lucien.

Elain, the wretch, had taken the seat between Feyre and Varian, about as far from Lucien as she could get.

It's crazy how antis try to twist things. If there is a couple who will look like two dolls forced to kiss, it's Elain and Lucien.

I don’t know why they act like they don't know it's Rhys who ordered Az to stop, that there was very high tension and chemistry between him and Elain, that she gave him 'Offer and permission.' Later on, he was questioning the pot from which the world was born. The next day, he was putting rocks in snowballs and throwing them at Rhys. At the training, he was aloof and didn't even smile at Nesta. This is the forbidden love, you can't have the kiss in a bonus chapter, we have to see the tension, the yearning, the charged glances and the brush of fingers that sjm talked about. Antis are just deluding themselves further and I fear the fall will be a bit hard.

[viridianevergarden]

Saw a post talking about how el*cien is no different from other ships and that opinions (the characters) can change, which somehow nods to the chances of El*cien being endgame.

They used Nessian, Feysand, Rowaelin, Yrene and chaol, and Bryce and Hunt as examples.

But the differences between these ships and El*cien is painfully clear.

For all of those ships, or at least 4 of the 5 aforementioned that I know, there was an inherent attraction to one another. (I haven’t finished ToG for clarification)

They either thought their future SO’s were exclusively beautiful or had a figurative pull that kept them coming back to one another no matter what.

Nesta combated Cassian.

Feyre combated Rhysand.

Aelin combated Rowan.

Bryce combated Hunt.

(For obvious reasons, I’m excluding Yrene and Chaol but my guess is they may have combated one another too.)

The trend is there.

They all had an initial attraction and still disliked one another. They argued, they bickered, they tested one another and still remained on equal ground.

However, El*cien is different.

Elain does not, from what we know, have any initial attraction to Lucien. She immediately cringed away from him. She avoids him. She loses all of her boldness around him. She makes excuses to leave. She refuses to talk to him unless Feyre or anyone else forces her to.

They don’t bicker. They don’t argue. They don’t test one another. They flee from each other. They don’t have a figurative pull to one another.

In a way, they stifle each other.

Elain is uncomfortable around him.

Lucien is uncomfortable around her.

Discomfort is significantly different from disliking a person. You can hate someone all you want and still have enough mind to argue and stand your ground against that person. Elain doesn’t do that. Lucien doesn’t do that. Hence, obvious discomfort.

They don’t have chemistry like Nessian or Feysand or Rowaelin do.

SJM couldn’t have emphasized that fact enough.

And if someone argues and says “well, she’s saving that for their actual story,” sorry, that’s bull.

SJM has sown the seeds of what’s to come already, and it’s not anything positive regarding El*cien. She’s already told us what we need to know.

[gardenfaerie222]

Elain goes Scorched Earth in the revelation that Rhys stopped the Solstice kiss: Blurb

Enjoy this little blurb? One-Shot? Short?

length: 480 words

“And you,” Her eyes were blazing, molten chocolate and she turned her gaze to the male sitting behind the desk, “I thought you were my friend- my brother.”

“Elain, I-” 

“No,” She cut him off, no amount of placating or coddling would change what he had done, “I have had every single choice in my life stripped from me, my entire life has been dictated by someone else, first my mother, then my sister,” Her eyes flickered to Nesta, before returning to the High Lord in front of her, “Then by the people who wanted to hurt you,” a spark of remorse burned in her chest at the wounded look on not only his face, but on her younger sisters as well, “I chose Graysen, and he was taken from me in the repercussions of your actions. My life was taken from me in the repercussions of your actions, and when I regained some semblance of control, when I chose who I loved, you took that away from me as well?”

Her eyes scanned the group of Fae sitting in the room, the room she had been excluded from so many different times. They thought she was a wisp of a person with delicate sensibilities better left out of less… tasteful discussions. 

“I was made, I was gifted by the cauldron, it loved me. Would you like to know what I have seen of my future Rhys? Of yours?” Her fists tightened in the silk skirts of her gown, her mouth dropping into a frown, “You had no right to make this dictation of my life. I am not some demure child for you to put into your pocket and pull out when it best suits your political ambitions. I chose this court, but I do not choose Lucien. Every person in this room knows that. What did you think would happen, Rhys?” She asked, her voice on the verge of breaking, her throat tightening, “That I would eventually fall head over heels for my cauldron given mate? Would you lock me in a tower with him too? Hoping the forced proximity thawed my heart to whatever advances he decided to make?”

“He is your mate,” Her anger reared it’s head in the face of Rhys’ pacification.

“He does not want me either!” Elain felt the desperation creeping into her voice, into her very being, “He doesn’t want me either, and he never will. He’ll give it a go, if I so choose, but he will never love me,” She felt the pitying looks from the fae in the room who knew and felt the sacredness of the bond. Who grew up with the belief that it was a gift given by the mother, something to cherish and hold dear, “Do you wish that for me, Rhys?” She asked, “Would you wish me a loveless mating bond for the next millenia?”

A/N: anyways, just felt like writing this. Thought it would be fun. Hope you enjoy! No proof reading, no beta, no e/ucien hate, no Rhys hate just know if this scene happens it'll be angry, forgive my overuse of italicization.

[this-is-madnesss]

I did not just see an elucien saying it was Lucien who found out what was wrong with Elain...you can't make this shit up 😭😭

[silverlinedeyes]

Love this find @merymoonbeam and I think the quote from HOSAB only further supports the theory that there are different types of mating bonds: true mates (i.e., soulmates), and then normal mates without a soul bond.

“Some fae claim they know their mates from the moment they meet them. That there’s some kind of invisible link between them. A scent or soul bond.”

So only some fae have this immediate invisible link with their mate; only some fae have a soul bond; others apparently recognize their mate immediately only by scent.

Is this essentially confirmation of the true mates theory?

And if it is, is it possible for a person to have two mating bonds: a normal mating bond that doesn’t have a soul connection, and that can indicate a poor pairing (like Rhys’s or Tamlin’s parents), and a soulmate pairing?

Note: I realize that Lucien did recognize immediately that Elain was his mate. But nothing in the text leads me to believe they have a soul mate bond, at least as things currently stand (see this post for more in-depth analysis on this).

I wonder if it was Lucien’s magical eye that detected the bond—if he can see the magic of the bond or whatever with his eye. It’s not until Lucien looks at Elain that he seems to recognize the bond:

And he doesn’t actually feel the bond until he is having tea with Elain and yanks on the “thread” tied to Elain’s rib. And he doesn’t seem to have the same feral instincts towards Elain as Rhys and Cassian (and Azriel if they end up being true mates).

Which, as an aside, is interesting—if he doesn’t recognize her as his mate until he sees her with his magical eye, is it because their bond is actually a spell, as many have theorized, and his eye sees the spelled “bond” (but doesn’t recognize it for what it is—a spell)?

Mating Bonds and Bridges

(And Elucien and Elriel)

Throughout the ACOTAR series, SJM often uses the word “bridge” to describe the mating bond.

For example, here is how Feyre describes the bond in the scene in ACOWAR where Rhys and Mor are fighting about Eris:

And here is how Madja describes it in the scene where she meets with Feyre after she checks over Elain to see if there’s anything wrong with her:

“A bridge between souls.” Interesting.

Well, we know that Lucien wasn’t able to discover what was “wrong” with Elain (also interesting that the bond is described as a “thread” singular here):

Az is the one who “senses” what is “amiss” with Elain:

Interesting. Now we have the Truth-Teller scene. Pay attention to how Feyre describes what she sees between Azriel and Elain.

“The only bridge of connection ... that knife.” Hmm. The sentence structure is also very similar to the sentence structure in the first quote where Feyre is talking about her and Rhys’s bond.

And then finally, in ACOFAS, Feyre is talking about Elain and Lucien and she thinks this:

Elain and Lucien don’t have a “bridge” connecting them, but rather a “gap” between them. That they actively need to “bridge.” And that neither of them is interested in “bridging.”

The use of the word “bridging” here is particularly important, I think. Sarah is emphasizing that a bridge, which normally exists between mates, is absent with Elain and Lucien. Even though both of them have “acknowledged” their bond, and by that, I mean physically have felt it and acknowledged it’s presence.

What is Sarah trying to show us here? Is it that a “bridge” can’t form between Elain and Lucien because one already exists for Elain with someone else, namely Az? Is it because Az and Elain are true mates? Or is it something more subtle?

I don’t know. But it’s certainly very interesting.