#and wyll still loves him. even though what he did REALLY hurt him. which I think is SO fucking interesting!!!

[forcedhesitation]

so I didn't know that if you even so much as trigger the waypoint for waukeen's rest and leave....florrick dies and you lose your chance to learn that duke ravengard is alive.

what's interesting about this is that although wyll is understandably upset at the possibility that his father could be dead, he is more openly resentful of his father exiling him in this unfolding of events.

the way he delivers some of these lines carries a slight tone of disdain I've not heard before, when he'd spoken of his father in corydalis' campaign, where the party saved florrick.

[what-is-it-to-be-pk-esque]

Omg the love triangle/breakup dynamics in BG3 kill me

Astarion offering to have a sordid affair down the road if you romance Wyll is amazing - and you can agree to that lmaooo. Honestly his retorts and jokes about Wyll if you pick Astarion might be the funniest in the bunch, love that he calls you a scoundrel if you agree hahaha

Karlach's got some really kind and funny things to say about Astarion as long as you get his act 2 scene before you sleep with her (the throwing his pomade into the river comment, joking about sharpening stakes, saying he's not one whose heart you should play with, etc). If it's the other way around you def feel like a piece of shit for picking him and she is right to make you feel that way lol. Also let her be the one to end things, don't tell her you're ending things first unless you want to cry, holy shiiiiiit 😭😭😭 I swear she makes me wanna cry more than anyone else this whole game (such good acting!)

Shadowheart, she also has some really insightful things to say about Astarion if that's your love triangle, but I think you can't really do an act 2 scene with her until the end of Act 2 / early Act 3? So in early act 2 she only gets one breakup option instead of 2 like the others, which only happens from Shadowheart initiating the breakup after you get the other person's act 2 scene. Regardless she & Wyll seem to take a breakup best imo

Meanwhile from what I can tell Gale does not take it well if you pick someone else no matter which order you do the love triangle. He's either super hurt or pissed no matter what I did even though I didn't even kiss him in the weave in my game!! I had no way to tell him let’s just be friends before anything with Astarion happened, although to his credit he does have one or two okay responses of wanting you to be happy as long as you let him down gently in the convo before his act 2 scene. He's just clearly very hurt and down bad though, I felt awful the whole time lol, almost as bad as with Karlach

When I've tried to make the love triangle happen with Lae'zel, she was just ultra salty no matter what I did & Astarion only had like one non-generic line 🤷‍♀️ might also be bugged cause when I tried to pick her after getting his Act 2 scene she said nothing and all I could choose was leave/breakup. Felt like they didn't add as many options for her? You can tell it def affects her though cause even though she's pissed she says your "bruises will scar" :( so... still a bummer

Similarly for Wyll if you choose someone else over him, his comments are mostly generic about writing your story and honestly he’s pretty mature about it, but you don't even get to tell him you wanna date both, which is where they can say some pretty emotional/funny stuff, so again, doesn't seem like a lot of variations were put in for him

I find it interesting that you seem to only get the "you chose me instead of X?" dialogue with Astarion if you break it off with Shadowheart or Karlach, where you can tell him you're "dead serious" about the relationship. Unless I missed it, he didn't have anything to say when I talked to him after breaking up with Gale or Wyll or Lae'zel, which is when that dialogue pops up with the other two.

He seems to have the "i hear you have a new lover / what, why?" speech with everyone though. If you choose someone else over him before his act 2 scene he has the same various replies of "lucky you, you'll think of me / i'll think of everything we did / having you once was enough" etc, but if it's after his act 2 scene it's all "I didn't think / you were a mistake" :( and you'll feel terrible about yourself

ALSO while I'm talking about it, idk if this happened to anyone else, but the "I hear you have a new lover" speech was bugged for me for Gale/Wyll/Lae'zel, so he skipped saying the 1st shady unique line for them, BUT I could see it in the journal. Karlach's seemed to work fine though. Adding pics for reference minus Shadowheart

UPDATE ok it is a known bug and Shadowheart def has variations too, adding the youtube link for these. Also I had NO idea about the act 3 versions, omg these are SAVAGE towards Wyll and Gale ahhahaha

[snotsloth]

Calling fellow Baldur's Gate fic writers! I would like a bit of advice on a characterization conundrum I'm facing. I'm currently writing an epistolary post-game fic between my Tav and Astarion. I'm currently working on my second chapter which is my first letter from Astarion and I don't know how much he should reveal about his current psychological and emotional state. A bunch of spoilers and more details under the cut.

A quick summary of the important facts. Brychan romanced Wyll and Karlach during the events of BG3. But he also had a very intense but platonic relationship with Astarion. Astarion did not ascend. He killed Cazador and freed all of his victims into the Underdark.

They all saved Baldur's Gate with the help of the Emperor. Once the Netherbrain and all the tadpoles were dead, Astarion's vampiric curses returned and he had to flee from sunlight. Brychan was about to run after him when Karlach's engine gave out. At the last minute Brychan and Wyll were able to convince Karlach to return to Avernus with them so that they could all search for a fix for her engine together.

But before he left, Brychan tasked Halsin with finding Astarion and giving him "true love's embrace" one of two rings that allows the wearer to cast a protective spell over the wearer of the other ring. (Brychan is a sorcerer and he frequently "breaks" magic rules mostly because he doesn't know they exist.)Though angry and brokenhearted, Astarion kept the ring. About two weeks later it magically produced a letter from Brychan, apologizing and explaining everything that has happened to them since their descent to Avernus.

Having had a few weeks to brood, Astarion is in a better headspace than he was directly after the battle of Baldur's Gate. He understands why Brychan makes the choice he did and isn't really mad at him any longer, buuuuuuuut he is still hurting.

Here's where I finally get to my question. How honest should Astarion be in his reply letter? At first, I let him bare his soul and be completely honest about his current mental state, but now I'm second guessing myself.

Like, yes, Brychan and Astarion were very close at the end of the game. They had a level of intimacy and comfort in one another that Astarion has never had before.

AND YET! He isn't "fixed," you know? He didn't just magically heal from 200+ years of trauma by killing Cazador. Plus, even though Brychan was forced to make a split second decision and didn't intend to hurt Astarion, he did. Leaving for the Hells right after Astarion's curse returned felt like abandonment, whether or not he meant it.

So with all that context, would Astarion put up a front? Would he wave away Brychan's concern and remorse and just be like, "I'm fine. Of course I'm fine. Why wouldn't I be? You assumed I'd fall to pieces just because you left? Please. I got along just fine before you came into my life. I can look after myself, you know."

Or should I stick with my initial instinct and let Astarion pour his soul into the first letter? I feel like it would make for better narrative tension if I didn't, and instead made a start contrast between what Astarion actually feels and what he allows himself to write.

I would love to know if anyone else has an opinion on it because the people I usually bounce writing ideas off of haven't finished the game yet. Please help!

Also, here's a link to the fic if you'd like to read chapter 1!

https://archiveofourown.org/works/50215084/chapters/126824515

[omgkalyppso]

is it obnoxious to ask for all answers at once for étoile?

It isn't obnoxious for you to ask at all! But it's obnoxious for me to answer! Everyone's just going to have to cope! akjsdfjkahsdf Thank you for the ask!

1.Tell us about your Tav! Name, class and subclass, race, pronouns. Do you have a headcanon for where they're from? Their family? Are they a Dark Urge? Or did you choose an Origin Character? Was it an easy decision?

Étoile Ienith (they/he) was a Devotion Paladin for all of Act 1. In Act 2 at level 8 they became an Oathbreaker Paladin. They're a high elf who was adopted by a drow and a human werewolf in the Earthfast Mountains at 4 years old. If their birth parent(s) were from somewhere else before then, they don't remember, and it isn't really relevant to them. They aren't a Dark Urge at the moment, but when I play a Dark Urge oc next, then I might incorporate pieces or the whole thing into my headcanons for them.

It was an easy decision. I've had early access for almost the full three years and even before Paladin was an option (played as a Fighter) I knew that's what Étoile was going to be. I wondered for ages whether they'd be able to Lay On Hands heal Astarion or if they'd hurt him: in tabletop d&d healing magic like this deals damage to Undead which Vampires are considered.

Being the shield of people, especially in honor of / the same style as their mother (my sword and shield skyrim dragonborn oc Wylla), is baked into Étoile's personality. The mystery of the daedric prince Azura was part of the Neutral aspects of their personality. Étoile was meant to be Neutral Good, but by Act 3, they're not quite who they were at the beginning of their journey and I love that for them.

2. Was there something about the character creator that just couldn't capture your Character? Please tell us about their hair, facial hair, tattoos, piercings, disabilities, their trans or intersex body, or anything else you're comfortable sharing.

While I wanted Étoile to have the face and musculature that they do from the masc body options, I do picture them as having breasts / not having a lot of physical transitioning (?) going on. Their presentation should be mostly in attire. Scars from blades and arrows or armor bent into them would be cool too.

Also no one's called me out on it but I fucking forgot (tbh I couldn't find it in the cc when I was making Étoile in full release) to add their rose tattoo to their neck. It's still there imo. If it were there, it would be inaccurate in that I'd want it to be in "full color" with a red rose and green leaves.

4. Do you remember in which order you recruited your companions? Which companion introduction would have felt the most familiar / like home to your Tav / Character?

Shadowheart, Astarion, Gale, Wyll, Lae'zel, Karlach. I recruited Lae'zel before Wyll in all my early access playthroughs but I ... couldn't find her, lol.

I included this question because I wanted to hear about people's oc's who were used to a mugging (Astarion) vs those who were magical nerds (Gale) and so on. Étoile gets Wyll for this question. More accustomed to a battlefield and Aradin's betrayal in an adventure.

6. Were you able to save everyone when the goblins stormed the gates at the Grove?

No! I didn't care that one of Aradin's companions died though. Étoile would have felt bad for being unable to save them, but. Things happen.

7. Did you enter the Grove?

Yes. uwu

8. Do you have a favorite member of the Druid Circle? Is it the same as your Character's?

Are we counting Halsin? akjsdfhkadjs I know I didn't mean to.

Rath. A voice of reason that comes too late and too weak to have merit.

Étoile probably likes Nettie more, as she proved more competent.

10. Do you have a favorite member of the Goblin Camp? Is it the same as your Character's?

Maybe one day my favorite will be Minthara. For the moment, my favorite is a goblin who's name I can't even recall. The one with his new jeans / blue pants.

Étoile probably had the best experience with Grat the Trader.

11. Do you have a favorite member of the Act 1 Githyanki? Is it the same as your Character's?

My favorite is the one who has the most characterization: Kith'rak Voss. I thought he might end up being one of the Three: the armored elf, and that we wouldn't recognize a githyanki in a vision. He's still interesting to me.

At the end of Act 1, Étoile wouldn't really have been able to pick a githyanki ally outside of Lae'zel; nor a favored enemy, lol.

12. Do you have a favorite member of the Zhentarim? Is it the same as your Character's?

Rugan. He reminds me of the opening of 5e campaign The Storm King's Thunder.

I suppose Étoile would like him too, he was cordial.

13. Do you have a favorite character from the Underdark? Is it the same as your Character's?

I don't know that I can pick a favorite. I really liked both Sovereign Spaw and Sovereign Glut. They added depth (haha) and intrigue in an unexpected way.

Étoile had the most positive interactions with Blurg. They appreciated the way Blurg was trying to live, the allies he was entertaining, and took advantage of his sales.

14. Do you have another NPC you loved from a faction not mentioned above? What about your Character?

I wish we could have saved / allied with Dhourn! At least for a little while if he insisted on fighting at the Adamantine Forge. But it would have been cool to see him to his goal.

Étoile probably wouldn't have had very strong feelings about characters not from the factions listed above, but I'll mention that while Étoile would have felt a smidge of guilt overhearing the conversation between Lunkbug and Beldron but even before Lunkbug confirmed in conversation that they were married that their dynamic was just So sweet and loving that Étoile was endeared to them and would have presumed they were together.

15. How did the situation with the Grove, the Tieflings and the Goblins turn out for your Character?

Étoile felt that the grove should have removed Kagha as soon as the Shadow Druid plot was revealed, and they felt vindicated by Halsin's decision, to demote her to the role of apprentice, when the time came. They made their way into the Goblin Camp with lies of being hired for work, and then made their entrance from the crumbling wall at the top of the Shattered Sanctum, killing only a few goblins at the exterior, and only those between them and their goals inside: the ones torturing Liam, the ones outside of Halsin's cage, and those who defended the goblin leaders.

They felt allied to the Tieflings through association with Wyll and Karlach, and were generally fair in their dealings with them. They did allow Lae'zel to be mean / threatening, with the excuse of cultural differences and the presumption that she wasn't actually going to hurt anyone. The Tieflings seemed no worse for wear by the evening of their party.

16. Did you save Halsin?

Yes. In early access years ago I remember what a surprise and delight his appearance was. He's wonderful.

17. What does your Character think of Withers?

When they met Withers, they would have assumed him an overzealous man who sought immortality for the answers to life's most puzzling questions, hoping that some day they would be common knowledge. The more time they spend with him, Étoile is less certain of his origin.

18. How did your Character deal with Wyll, Karlach and Mizora?

Étoile convinced Wyll to stand down. They worried Mizora was going to kill Wyll as soon as she arrived, and felt sorrow about the tortures he went through in the blink of an eye, but felt worse when Karlach said no one had ever stood up for her like that before.

19. Did your Character spend a night with a companion either the night of the party or earlier? Is it someone they have a continued interest in?

Étoile spent the night with Astarion. They've been fond of him at least since he came around stumbling for blood. Yes, they have a continued interest in him.

20. How did you deal with The Artist - Oskar Fevras? Did you even encounter him?

Étoile both bought him out of slavery and gave him some gold to go on his way. I also took control of Astarion to ask about a portrait; not quite a mirror image, but hopefully appeasing. I am looking forward to finding Oskar in Baldur's Gate.

21. What are your Character's thoughts on the strange artifact that was in Shadowheart's possession? Did it jump to your pack because you changed her out of your party?

Étoile is a little unsettled by the artifact having emotions in Act 1. They wonder if they wouldn't have felt more secure if it had just been a cursed object and not, feeling. It did jump to their pack and they went and told Shadowheart almost instantly. Her understanding was unexpected.

22. How did your Character resolve the situation with Sovereign Glut, if you met them?

Étoile helped Sovereign Glut get their vengeance, but then wouldn't turn on Sovereign Spaw. If there could be only one Sovereign, then it would the Sovereign who believed there could be more than one Sovereign, and who Étoile hadn't interpret as weak or inept by their actions or how they defended their people.

23. What are your Character's thoughts on the dream visitor?

They're so conflicted in Act 1. I designed their Guardian to look like a version of their god, Auril. And Étoile would be entranced by such a person, would be driven to believe them, which only makes them more suspicious.

24. Was your illithid tadpole empowered by anything in Act 1? If so, how does your Character feel about that?

At the end of patch 4 early access, I had Étoile run around and do a bunch of things I didn't expect they'd do in full release, like take Ethel's deal, or allow Omeluum to mess with the tadpole; but I was so fascinated by what happened with Omeluum that I was tempted to do it in full release anyway, an unhappy accident. I was worried having no access to the tadpole's potential might hinder Étoile in late-game. However, in full release I accidentally used the mushrooms Omeluum needed while crafting, lol. So no, I stood by my initial plans and didn't empower Étoile's tadpole.

25. Did your Character take the mountain pass?

Étoile actually paced back and did the mountain pass in Act 2. They'd done nearly everything in Act 2, but when Lae'zel said she'd leave the party if we didn't go the the Githyanki Creche Right Now, I looked up some stuff online and found there was no consequence to doing so. So we went and did that then and then continued on with the Act 2 material.

26. What was your favorite enemy? Did your Character have any memorable fights or moments in combat that were ripe for headcanons and interpretation?

I love tactical rpg's. I love big fights that take an hour when I can beat them, lol. My favorite fights in Act 1 were True Soul Gut, the Githyanki on the Risen Road, the duergar of Grymforge, and Nere. I even considered reloading my save at the Windmill when I succeeded on an intimidation roll because I'd remembered really enjoying that fight in early access.

I guess my favorite enemy might still be Dror Ragzlin, but he wasn't as hard for my party to beat / he didn't have enough high healthbar mini-bosses around him to make him a favorite fight. But narratively? The lead up to him with the crash of the nautiloid, Volo's song, and at least three quest markers to defeat him, the way he called upon the unexpected illithid corpse, and his spectacular design, made him an excellent enemy.

I'm playing on the average difficulty for Étoile.

Étoile is a sword and shield based Paladin and I get so much use out of Protection. In Act 1 I either had Astarion around corners or both him and Wyll up under either side of Étoile to take advantage of it. Wyll has also had the gloves of missile snaring. I can't think of specific moments right now, but just the idea of them being able to look at my elf in all their defensive glory as they brace themself against an attack meant for them? I love it!!! Lae'zel is my usual other party member and while she can stand on her own, I think this ability to protect a collective is part of what endeared her to them.

27. Who ended up in your Character's most used party?

As mentioned, Étoile (devotion paladin), Astarion (assassin rogue), Lae'zel (battle master fighter), Wyll (pact of the bald warlock).

28. Did you recruit Scratch the dog? Did you encounter him at all?

I did!

29. Did you adopt an owlbear? Do you have a name for your child?

No. I didn't have Étoile fight the owlbear or do more.

30. Do you have other pets as a ranger or in headcanon?

I don't yet, but I kind of want Étoile to have one or many cats.

31. Does your Character have new or old phobias or superstitions that affect their story?

I am sure Étoile has a number of superstitions that make sense to no one, but none so far that would affect their story.

34. How did your Character resolve the situation with Nere and the gnomes?

Étoile found the gnomes and told them (truthfully) that they already had Smokepowder, so I understand I missed out on some content, but Étoile sent Astarion and Wyll up onto the ledge in the right of the map, and they and Lae'zel stayed on the floor as Astarion got the first blow on the guard on the ledge. They dealt with the duergar, and then blew out the rubble to free Nere to face him. Besides the gnome you cannot save in Nere's cutscene, they got everyone out that they meant to, I think.

36. Did your Character find the Adamantine Forge? Did they use it? What did they make?

Yes. I think I would have missed out on the second piece of mithral ore if I hadn't been told about it. I made each a suit of heavy and medium armor for Étoile and Lae'zel. The fight was sooo hard to do with the hammer. I was told I would have had a much easier time if I'd used bludgeoning weapons with the pair of them.

37. Did your Character find the Necromancy of Thay? How are they handling it / planning to handle it?

Yes. By Act 3 they've fully "handled it." But. When I was playing early access, Gale would only consume orange quality rare items. So I kept the book with the intention of feeding it to Gale. When I discovered that Gale could now consume blue and green quality items, I wanted to give the book to Astarion and eventually figured it out.

Étoile started to read it at camp, Karlach objected, and Étoile was given the option to give it to Astarion. I had the cutscene play out later in Act 1 where he's fighting against the book; and then in Act 2 I remembered to actually select Astarion and read the book and pass my checks.

Étoile could understand why a vampire spawm would want to know how to protect themselves against undead; like vampires.

39. What does your Character think of Raphael?

The answer to this question is so much more complicated by Act 3. But in Act 1 Étoile thought it was prudent to be polite with Raphael while rejecting him, thinking at the time that they would never make a deal with a devil — but for the reason Raphael described: self-preservation in the face of a pointless death.

40. Is your Character used to strange dreams from before the events of the adventure?

No. As a high elf Étoile had never had any dreams before the adventure.

41. Is your Character accustomed to being on the road from before the events of the adventure?

Yes. They undoubtedly camped with their werewolf mother as a child / youth, trained as a paladin, and have been an adventurer for 48 years.

43. Asker has a question not from the list.

oh and for the question not on the list—what's étoile's favorite animal?

I think that because of their mother that they feel a kinship with wolves, even knowing they're different than werewolves by a wide margin. Picturing them in a three wolf moon t-shirt with the sleeves rolled up or cut off Ma/risha R/ay style, lol.

44. Asker wants Blogger to choose a question from the list.

Okay so I've answered all my questions but I want to say two more things while we're here.

Étoile killed the brothers who were attacking Ethel. This was to be consistent with their actions in early access, though in full release sadly Astarion didn't call her a 'sly old crone,' for me. They then didn't come into conflict with her because they felt that people were doing business with her of their own free wills, and that Ethel had a right to live.

Étoile's deity, Auril, being Neutral Evil has affected how others have seen them and their actions and their customs, and Étoile can be very live and let live with the strange and unusual.

The other thing I want to say is I'm thinking of Étoile at maybe twenty years of age asking why their mother Wylla hadn't turned their mother Aranea to a werewolf. And Aranea saying she had no need to be a werewolf, and that the wolves with which Wylla associated were more convenient to her at a distance than being forced as that manner of family. And Étoile asking why they hadn't been turned to a werewolf and Wylla saying they would find strength enough from Auril that they would never need Malar's power.

And this memory being a plague upon them as they try to find the words to tell Aranea, with Wylla long dead, that they've lost Auril's favor through their broken Paladin oath.

[autistichalsin]

I have Thoughts on this but I always hesitate to say them because somehow this ended up being what people get stuck on.

Halsin WILL sometimes kill the goblin kids if he rolls high initiative- I will give the anti-Halsin people that. But aside from that, really what it comes down to is criticizing Halsin for the worldbuilding failings of DND. It's "I refuse to accept the goblins are mostly/usually/always evil because that trope is problematic, so they aren't evil, no matter what canon says on the subject, so therefore the only reason Halsin killed the goblin kids was that he wrongfully thought they were evil, and therefore no reasoning can ever be valid for what Halsin did." This is also why Halsin has been called a "Drow racist", because the same people who criticize Halsin for this also tend to be ride or die with the Drow. So Halsin becomes the springboard for peoples' issues with the writers. (And only Halsin. No one ever calls Wyll out for despising goblins.)

This is going to be extremely controversial, but I want to point out that Halsin is very much of the mind that if you're in a situation where it's a choice between your life or someone else's, it's okay to choose yours. And this clashes with so much of what we're told about what heroes are supposed to be, that a lot of people despise Halsin for not turning the other cheek here. But it's repeatedly shown to be his own philosophy.

Let's look at what happens in act 3 if the player gets Yenna killed; if Orin-as-Lae'zel threatens Yenna, she lies that Yenna is the imposter. The player is aware at this point that it's just as likely that Yenna is an innocent girl as she is Orin, because they know their camp is compromised and Orin loves spreading misery and discord. But they can still give Lae'zel the order to kill Yenna, stating that they can't take chances.

Surely Halsin, child-adoring Halsin, gets furious and shouts at them, revealing his attitude towards the goblins to be wholly hypocritical or something, right?

No.

"You thought she was an imposter - a threat. This was a trap of Orin's creation. Yenna's death is on her hands, not yours. But still... we all failed that little girl."

He doesn't blame the player for allowing what they had every reason to believe was (and which actually was) a child to be killed. He knew the player had to weigh lives against each other- and unfortunately, in that case that meant letting her die.

Similarly, for the goblin kids... I don't know why the discussion is centered around "but they just thought they were hurting a bear!" as though Halsin did this as a punishment. It starts to feel like strawmanning, honestly. The truth is that Halsin had already been overpowered once by the goblins, so he knew what they were capable of doing even to a bear as big as him, let alone an elf. He knew killing the goblins and their leaders was the only chance to save his Grove, and the strangers who had just freed him were his only chance of doing it. And the goblin kids were trying to summon more adult goblins to them, who would kill Halsin's only chance to save his Grove. Hell, depending on player choices leading up to this, the goblins might actively be MARCHING towards the Grove, making the stakes even higher. This is an existential threat to himself, dozens of refugees including MORE than two children, and dozens of Druids.

Which is to say: it was defense of himself and others. What the goblins did to him as a bear doesn't matter. Whether goblins are inherently evil doesn't matter. Halsin was acting entirely within his philosophy that preserving your life above others isn't an inherently evil act, because one of the most basal instincts of any living thing is to survive. He's not very subtle about his Druidic beliefs being the basis for a lot of his philosophies on life, guys. It even extends away from children; if Wyll allows Ulder to (from their perspectives) die so he can be free of Mizora, Halsin even sadly notes that sometimes saplings strangle out their parent tree so they can thrive. He views sacrificing Ulder as a morally neutral act, in SHARP contrast with the others who treat this decision as horrifically evil from Wyll.

That is yet another point on how all of this boils down to "does a good-aligned character have a duty to lay their life down to protect others, even if those others have indicated they will bring even greater harm to more innocent people?"

Like... it's the trolley problem. Halsin killed two people to save dozens. Was he supposed to not act and let (as far as he could see at the time) dozens die instead?

I know this is a very unpopular take in this fandom, but honestly I feel like this is a case where people are projecting their problems with the worldbuilding onto Halsin as though he didn't act how a reasonable person in his situation would.

...people really have just decided Halsin is a child murderer and they won't hear anything else, huh?

Inconvenient facts like "those goblin kids do not die unless you the player choose to actively attack them, Halsin kills the adult goblin egging them on to torture him but the kids run away" just don't matter against a BG3 fan who's found an excuse to spew shit.

[mybg3notebook]

Hypothesis: Gale proposes you to “cheat"

Another one in the long list of the strangest statements I've read in this fandom. 

Disclaimer Game Version: All these analyses were written up to the game version v4.1.104.3536 (Early access). As long as new content is added, and as long as I have free time for that, I will try to keep updating this information. Written in June 2021.

Let's proceed with the basics, because clearly, anyone saying that Gale proposes Tav to cheat has some faltering concept of the meaning of the word:

The definition of cheating depends on the terms that a couple or more members in a relationship mutually decide. In general, cheating is an act involving a third party that violates the standards or boundaries of a relationship between romantic partners. More specifically, it is a unilateral decision by one romantic partner to become involved (physically and/or emotionally) with an external party that is motivated by a perceived or real limitation in the romantic partnership. 

Now that this is clear, let's see the facts. 

To romance Gale, Tav needs to share the Weave, and this is a must. If Tav did not share it, there is no way to start a romance with Gale in EA. During the Weave there are 3 options that may lead to romance:

Imagine kissing him: We don't need to state that this is obviously romantic. 

Imagine holding hands: At first, we can't say if this is a romantic gesture, but immediately after the Weave, Gale will describe this option as: "Amid the madness that has befallen us, it seems almost out of place to think of a romantic walk". So, clearly, it is romantic. 

Imagine nothing: This is a friendship option, which in the Loss Scene unlocks a dialogue option for romancing Gale. 

During the Loss Scene, if Tav chose kissing or holding hands, an option appears in which Tav can bring the moment of the Weave into the conversation: "Come, you know I care about you. I showed you when we shared that spell/The Weave". This is a reassurance from Tav. After the end of the scene, Gale will bring this concept again in his line: "I often think of that moment we shared together – one under the Weave. I'm glad to know you think about it too. " This means that ever since the moment of the Weave, Gale has been frequently thinking about it, knowing its romantic potential/intention.

If Tav uses any of the other options which don't acknowledge the event of the Weave, by the end of the scene Gale will state: "I often think of that moment we shared together – one under the Weave. I hope you think about it too." This time it is Gale who implicitly reassures that the connection had happened and had an effect on him: “it promises things to come”. 

So, if Tav shared the Weave in romantic terms, the Loss scene will reinforce it. Gale and Tav are making a point that both are interested in what has transpired during the Weave. 

If Tav opted the friendship option during the Weave, a unique dialogue option appears in the Loss scene: *You sense a moment of unspoken affection. You want to know where it may lead.* 

Gale will subtly test the ground, carefully, to see if both of them are on the same page with the same intention. He will show somehow an “unspoken affection” that Tav can decide to pick up upon or not:

Gale: I consider myself very lucky to have found you. 

Among the options Tav has, we find:

"I think perhaps we could be more than friends". Again, we can see that this is the obvious romantic option.

"I consider myself lucky too." A complete friendship-based option, in which Gale recognizes Tav as a good friend.

"Don’t get carried away imagining feelings that aren’t there." And this option allows any player to completely remove the romantic option here. It is not clear if this option can prevent friendship as well in EA. 

As if this were not enough, after the Loss scene there is another confirmation of their romantic interest: the serendipity comment. 

Then, the Party Scene follows. If Tav talks with Gale after arranging a one-night stand with another character, Gale will accept the situation without any reaction beyond some jealous comments. These comments are always available, even with an unromanced Gale, so I'm not sure if this is the way this scene is meant to be or it's simply there because its in EA stage. One can speculate that these comments should appear only in the particular case when Gale was romanced and Tav picks another character to spend the night with. Despite this display of jealousy after being led on, Gale still encourages Tav to follow their whims and enjoy the night with the one they picked

If anything, this seems to show that Gale would accept (even though he doesn’t like it) Tav's one-night stand, assuming that this scene, being in EA, is not meant to be in another way and we are watching an unfinished work in progress. 

Once Tav sleeps with their new LI and talks with Gale about the bedtime story, Gale will propose to retake what had been left up in the air during the party. The player should remember that Gale has been explicitly informed that Tav had romantic interest in him. And if this happened in the Weave, that confirmation has been done several times. The player could have been clear with Gale and stop the romance during the party by choosing the option "Let me stop you right there. That's not something I'm interested in." But this option is sometimes not available depending if you speak with Gale first or later (again, the Party scene is very unpolished). 

So far, what Gale has understood of that situation is that Tav had a one-night stand, but the commitment connection mind-to-mind and the relationship—will be established with him. 

This is the reason why in the next day Gale says:

Gale: You spent the other night with someone else, and I hope it was all you wanted it to be, but…  [romantic weave+ romantic loss scene] we shared a romantic moment of the mind while clocked in the Weave, didn’t we? And I seem to recall a fond allusion to that moment afterwards.  [more than friends path] we had a moment, you and I, a moment in which we expressed the possibility of becoming more than friends.

Gale is accustomed to being only another name in a list of lovers.. He says it during the revelation when he explains that Mystra had many other lovers, and this fact did not intimidate him because, in his youth, "he thought himself favoured among others": he was the “special one”. So, from Gale's perspective, Tav has shown interest in a deep connection with him, so he clearly understands that the night with another companion is a simple, casual thing. There is enough context for Gale to think that he is “the special one” for Tav. 

As a person who respects privacy, Gale will not use the tadpole on Tav to know exactly the degree of commitment they have with that person. He is merely assuming. As he explicitly says afterward if Tav says they will remain with the other LI:

Tav: I’m sorry, but I won’t betray *companion* Gale: I… I see. She/He ‘s a lucky woman/man. Loyalty is such a… such a very rare commodity. Dev's notes: Hurt by the player’s refusal. The reference to loyalty foreshadows Mystra leaving him. Gale: Apologies, I really did think you and I… Dev's notes: Hurt by the player’s refusal. Gale: But no. Perhaps it’s for the better. In fact, I’ll let you be the judge of that. After all, I still have a story to tell. Dev's notes: Composes himself.

From his perspective, he and Tav had been actively pursuing "a romantic connection of the mind". This rejection immediately makes him remember Mystra, so he alludes to her in the line of loyalty: he has been led on once more, similar to what Mystra did. For more details about Mystra’s style check "Mystra and her Chosen ones". If we see the datamining information gathered by pjenn, it's explained in the dev's notes that his comment of loyalty is directed to his experience with Mystra. 

I don't understand people that claim that Gale wants Tav to cheat. Tav has been leading him on in many scenes and then, during the party scene, they changed their mind. Gale—like Wyll—needs a connection to engage into romance (and sex "intimacy); this means that if Tav never expressed their romantic interest towards him, Gale will not look for a romantic relationship. Considering his surprise during the Weave, we can speculate that this aspect of his life had been forgotten or at least, rejected, since he is stuck in the bad experience of Mystra and his folly with the “orb”.

For some unknown reason to me, these people love to spread the misinformation that Gale invites Tav to cheat for this situation. A plain lie. 

What they think the game shows: Gale is asking Tav to cheat on their significant one.

What the game is showing: Tav led Gale on to believe they were interested in a romantic relationship. There is an option available during the party to make Gale stop the romance, but it depends on the interaction order chosen by Tav. After Tav slept with another LI, Gale will inform them that he is fine with that casual night and will propose to spend the next night together. Some people state this is Gale inviting to cheat. With the exception of Gale and Wyll, the rest of the companions state that such night is a mere casual encounter for pleasure. Shadowheart may be more obscure on that matter, though. In any case, there was never any commitment with the other companions either, so all that speech of “cheating on your significant other” is very ill-intended. The closest to a negotiation/promise we have ingame with any companions are the constant reassurances that Gale and Tav have several times along the EA and the subtle meaning for commitment during the explanation of the book of Arm.

Gale: A stolen glance- that sudden heartbeat... Sometimes the little things are worth more than kingdoms. They promise things to come. 

Gale: I often think of that moment we shared together – one under the Weave. I hope you think about it too. /I'm glad to know you think about it too.

Gale: I'm not a big believer in fate, but I do believe in serendipity. Life is a tempest of events that sometimes we brace against and sometimes embrace. You're one such event that one day soon perhaps I'd like to embrace. 

Gale: There is a book that circulates in Amn, detailing the first thousand nights of a newly-wed king and queen. They turned everything they did into an art. The art of conversation. The art of taste, time honoured and newly acquired. The art of the body. The exploration and acceptance of the self and the other. The art of the night itself. I say we take a page from their book.

So, if anything (if we truly want to force this concept even when nobody is in a relationship still), Tav is the one "cheating" on Gale, violating the implicit mutual interest in a potential relationship. 

In conclusion, Gale seems to be very obvious in wanting a commitment that could prevent Tav from abandoning him like Mystra did. He has an immature idea that sleeping with Tav would increase his chances for acceptance (not by chance Gale talks about the book of Amn in the way he does. It's not mere poetry or euphemism in my opinion. He is indirectly saying he wants those many aspects that a married couple turned into art, he won't mind making this relationship a "prequel" of that book: one can interpret this line as a suggestion that Gale wants to end up in a deep commitment.)

When we analyse this aspect of Gale, we can see that words like promise, loyalty and abandon are a bit frequent in his speech, and it may be displaying the constant abandonment issues echoing in his mind. A final example of this can be seen during a non-romanced Gale who receives Tav’s proposition to spend the night together after arranging the same with another LI:

Gale: You are all too quick to abandon the one you promised yourself to. It’s not a quality I admire

Again, Gale’s character is strongly attached to the concepts of loyalty and abandonment. For more details, read the post about "Gale Hypotheses- Part 1", section: "Abandonment Issues"

This post was written in June 2021. → For more Gale: Analysis Series Index

[shimmerbeasts]

Wyll nodded in agreement when Karlach revealed that she had not meant the path through the caves behind the well, but instead was talking about the passage located in the goblin camp. He said: "It should be easier now that we cleared it out of those pests. Though, did we actually get the riddle in the Selunite temple right? I have the distinct feeling, Shadowheart spun one of those dials a bit too quickly."

The conversation escalated quickly, fired up by a shared pain, which was hard to put into words for both of them. As Karlach stood up, fists balled, Wyll distinctly became aware of just how godsdamn big she was. Even for a Tiefling, she towered over most people in camp. If any of them started swinging, Wyll would not be able to do much. The Blade was not the strongest man. He was fast and agile, but his strength lay in the accursed magic, Mizora had lent him as opposed to anything physical.

As Karlach yelled at him to look at her, Wyll could not help but follow her instruction. The pale burn marks on the right side of her body, the regrown and scorched muscle tissue made him swallow tightly. While Mizora rarely laid her claws on him - he still remembered the loving 'caress', she had given one side of his face where his sending stone eye was -, he was no fool. If a devil did not torture you psychologically, they tortured you physically. And they could do some pretty horrendous things.

Wyll took a deep breath, realising his hurt had made him step out of line. Again, he shoved his own pain aside as he always did. The Blade had to remain strong. For victims of monsters and for his friends alike. What was going on in his troubled mind would be a small price to pay. The young warlock opened his hands and shoved them downwards as if he were trying to distance himself from his pain.

Placating, Wyll replied: "I am sorry, Karlach. I spoke without thinking. I don't know your history with Mizora, though, judging how you both speak of the other, it is pretty bad. I appreciate your attempt to help me. I really do. I am sorry if I did not express that properly."

He nodded and said: "You are right, Karlach. If anything, we should be the last people at each other's throats. We both know what hell does to a person. The pain it can bring. There is no use in arguing over semantics and who has been in more pain. We have bigger things to worry about."

Wyll gestured to the side of his temple for emphasis. "Nettie told me that Halsin is an incredibly capable druid. However, even with his magic, he could do nothing to remove the parasites. And he has studied them. Do you think we should follow his advice? Head to Moonrise to find more answers? Or should we rather go with Lae'zel's plan and locate the Crèche?"

Karlach couldn't help a hearty chuckle at his retelling of events, even more so at the rather impeccable impression of a spooked Astarion. Still trying to recover from the laughter, she managed to speak. "I've never heard a man squeal as high as that before! Ah man, what a riot. But no," Karlach let the chuckle die out, but the smile and brightness in her eyes remained. "No, I mean the Underdark passage. Means going back to the Goblin camp but hey, should be an easy trip at least."

Although her laughter was genuine, as they sunk into something deeper, the glint did indeed disappear from her amber eyes - even if she attempted to keep the smile firm. However, it was beginning to falter.

Karlach turned her head away for a moment, almost as if to give them both some space from staring eyes. Eyes that could analyse so much more than they were both willing to share in that moment. Instead, she concentrated her gaze on a scattering of ants close to her boot.

Why did she do that? Why did she insist on standing there and talking her way out of danger? It was so unlike her... She was typically so used to parting limbs from torsos - not lips. Quick to cut down anyone who dared step up to her. So why didn't she this time? The tadpoles certainly helped her claims, but even before they had interfered she had held up her hands.

She had surrendered! Why...?

Lost in thought, she startled a little as Wyll barked - standing up to tower over her for a change. Her fists had curled instinctively, as if ready to swing. She too stood up, not prepared to appear meek below him when being shouted at.

"You think I haven't felt those flames?! LOOK at me Wyll!" She gestured down the snaking pale burn scars cascading down her right side of her body. "They're inside me, for fuck sake! Yes, I do know how Hells tortures feel - and that's the only reason why I offered! Because I know I could take it! I could take it all the more if it meant life was easier for you! Tsk."

Karlach took a moment, a large inhale, and slow exhale - her flames seemingly reacting as they flared a little less dramatically. "Oh trust me, Mizora would have fucking jumped at the chance to get her hands on me herself... She's been chomping at that bit since the day I was dragged into that forge."

A sigh, a folding of the arms. "Besides, not like I can take any of this away from you now... We just have to try and use what we got to get these brain worms out of our skulls. And bickering isn't going to help us."

[crossdressingdeath]

#fantastic response#i couldn't agree more with you#durge needs that validation#needs to know they weren't just a thing born of evil#that even in their time as an evildoer they helped others#even if it was unintentional#i think far too often the game tries to make durge look like the most evil being of them all#such as with the one off lines about cannibalism and necrophilia#but there has to be some good in them for them to be able to make such a change#it wasnt just because orin scrambled their brain#and i think thats why Astarion is such a ride or die for durge#he sees that even they are not beyond saving and that gives him hope for himself (tags via @litterateur97)

I feel like an important aspect is that Astarion is familiar with being forced to do things by an actual magical compulsion. Astarion understands what it means to legitimately have zero choice in serving someone else's whims in a way the others don't! If Shadowheart went against Shar or Lae'zel went against Vlaakith or Wyll went against Mizora or what have you, the results would be bad, yes. Quite possibly fatal without support. Possibly worse than fatal (being turned into a lemure in particular is a truly horrific fate). But they could if they chose to. Not to say that they should have, all of them at least expected to suffer terribly if they did and/or legitimately had no reason to believe they were hurting anyone but themselves with their actions (Wyll my sweet boy please value yourself) and I can't blame them for not moving against their abusers although it does make them massive hypocrites when they get so pissed at Durge for not saying no to Bhaal in the past, but even an unwise and painful option is still an option. Hell, with some of them we see that if they have literally any support the other party doesn't really make an effort to get them back, or if they do it's easy enough to rebuff with help (Lae'zel beating Vlaakith's forces up and down the Astral Plane/Faerûn with her own forces in particular is so good, I love her). With Astarion and Durge though... Cazador and Bhaal respectively had actual, very literal control over them. Their bodies weren't their own to command; their masters could take over to make them do what was expected of them. The choice wasn't "Do I do this of something approximating my own will or do I suffer" the way it was with most of the others (and again, I don't want to imply that that was an easy choice, it definitely wasn't); it was "Do I do this of something approximating my own will or does my master use the power he has over me to force me to do it". That puts Astarion and Durge in a position where they can understand each other in a way the rest of the party clearly struggles to: if Durge can fight Bhaal Astarion can fight Cazador and vice-versa. They understand it's not as easy as "this is the good choice and this is the bad choice"!

The way I see pre-amnesia Durge (which is definitely not how Larian wanted me to see pre-amnesia Durge) is that... this was someone in an awful, unwinnable situation who made the best they could of it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the heroic Bhaalspawn protagonists of this series never know they're Bhaalspawn going in; pre-amnesia Durge knew they were doomed to be the plaything of a cruel master who wanted them to suffer and who owned their soul. What do you do in that situation? There's no escaping it or hiding from it, Bhaal is always there. He is inside you all the time. Durge would never, ever be free of him and they knew that! We're clearly supposed to see the cannibalism and necrophilia and allying with Gortash as them being pure evil, but... what were they supposed to do? Being good literally was not an option. Maybe they tried, they certainly had moments of kindness and compassion (if Chosen Durge asks Sceleritas what the worst thing they ever did was he'll tell them they once gave money to a beggar just because), but no matter what the party says Durge's unique existence—even among Bhaalspawn they're a special case with the whole "made from Bhaal's own gore" thing—means that they very literally could not choose to be good. They likely couldn't even die to escape; first off Bhaal owns their soul, and second gods have the ability to resurrect people (it's even one of the features of being a Deathstalker, which based on the Deathstalker's Mantle that Durge gets they were). Them defying Bhaal straight up breaks cosmology, according to Withers anyway. And honestly Astarion seems to be the only one that understands what that means even a little, because he was in a very similar boat.

Astarion: So, it was you who got us into this mess? All along, we were travelling with the creator of the Absolute... I won't lie, I'm a little impressed. If it wasn't for you, I'd still be stuck in Cazador's kennels. So, thank you. For being that evil bastard.

I love Astarion. It's true; for a lot of the party the Absolute cult improved things for them! And while it's understandable that the party is mostly focused on how hey, this whole situation is fucked up... I don't know, it's really nice having one person looking at Durge in this situation and saying "Sure you did a lot of bad things, but you saved me". I can see it being a huge deal for Durge to have someone make it clear that he's still on their side while everyone else is clearly considering cutting and running, I love it.