#and use will’s sexuality as a prop for mike and el

[castlebyersafterdark]

It’s amazing how the depth of ST really relies on Byler happening. Not that there aren’t other things/themes within the show (Max’s depression, being black in Hawkins, a cop learning to be suspicious of authority, the power of friendship, etc), in terms of its three central kids/now teens (Will, Mike, and El), a Byler-less season 5 would mean that the show doesn’t have much to say. And it would mean the show is ultimately fairly generic, fight the Big Bad and the evil government with superpowers fare. Sometimes I wonder if I’m too hooked on Byler endgame to the point of overemphasizing Byler’s thematic role and not being able to enjoy alternate outcomes, but I don’t think I am. Cause if Byler isn’t endgame, we’re not just wrong about a ship, we’re wrong about the show. Not to mention being wrong about the characters, specifically Mike. Like I don’t even recognize the Mike they believe in?

No, I really don't think you are I or anyone in agreement with us are being dramatic or unfounded or biased about this - Byler not happening as predicted really changes the whole story and I also am not sure what the show's messaging would be. It changes the characters completely.

How do you have Will at the end alone, without getting his love? Or, with him dead? His story has so much resting not just on acceptance because here's the thing - we know Joyce and Jonathan and Mike would accept him for being gay if that was his only secret. Will doesn't know that, but the audience (who cares about the show) know this. Or at least, has the context clues to know. THEY GAVE WILLIAM BYERS THE LINE "I'M NOT GONNA FALL IN LOVE" when one, he already is and two, not let that pay off!! And he's in love with Mike!! And Mike - his story of needed to be the hero, be needed, be himself, be allowed the grace to be different and true to himself - and that is really only allowed to shine with Will. I don't know what we're supposed to take away from the character of Mike without Byler with the show as it stands. It could have been a different arc with him and still have his arc entwined with endgame El - but what was written is so so so odd if real. Should have been written differently seasons ago. From the beginning.

Hell, even El needs Mike and Will to get together to really shine and come into her own. Her story is not about romance. If you really care about El - she cannot end the show in a relationship with Mike Wheeler. She needs inner strength without others propping her up or using her (whether for power or for a misguided stand-in for feeling needed). She doesn't need you, Mike. And you don't need her. Standing apart actually allows you to stand as equals. Right now both hide insecurities with themselves by burying them in each other in that relationship. They need each other's friendship - which neither have right now. Will needs love. El needs family/friendship. Mike needs both. The door to El and Mike also needs to be firmly shut and the door ripped off the closet.

The sexuality storyline is tied into the supernatural storyline. It kinda feels... incomplete without a way for Will (and Mike) to express that beyond just Will being gay. There needs to be weight and stakes to that storyline and he needs a love interest the audience can care about due to invested familiarity - which is why a shoehorned random townie isn't gonna do anything for Will.

There's a lot of additional value to the other arcs you've mentioned and I want to briefly highlight them as well as to emphasize how they all tie in and enhance each other. The message of being different and the power of love and friendship. Being different in a small town. How humanity's monsters are just as bad or worse as monsters from other worlds - or how those human monsters make the fantastical monsters. Something something like that, there's a lot of different takes that all lead to a similar place. It's a wonderfully assembled ensemble show, and the Byler storyline as the heart ties everything together really. What else could have been built up? It's the most dramatic and hard hitting reveal - everything swirling to a focus with Will. He started the show, he ends the show. With his happy ending - it'll be so beautiful.

[thelostsisters]

no he did deserve better and i truly mean that

[luminnara]

Billy Hargove x reader fluff

Can I request a Billy x Reader where the kids have no idea she’s Billy’s girlfriend and the boys have little crushes on her. They’re always visiting where she works (whether that’s at the pool/arcade/Starcourt is totally up to you). One day they swing by to see her, and notice that Billy is there, openly flirting with the reader and she’s dishing it right back. The boys don’t pick up on the obvious signs, annoyed at Billy for hitting on their crush, but Max and El quickly realize there’s something between the two older individuals. Just a lot fluff and playful banter and maybe a few sweet moments between Billy and his girl? Thank you! Sorry if it’s a lot lmao

Billy requests are open!

Warnings: very vague mentions of abuse/violence, implied sexual references bc billy is a flirt, innocent teenage pining lol

“That’ll be fifty tickets,” you said boredly, leaning your elbow on the glass countertop while you propped your cheek up on your hand.

The kid shoved a sweaty wad of tickets towards you and you sighed before handing him the prize he had picked out. He grabbed it and ran off without a second glance, and you were totally fine with that.

Working at Palace Arcade wasn’t really a gig you enjoyed all that much. It was alright—you had an unending supply of cheap snacks, you were surrounding by games all day, and if you really wanted to you could skim some tickets and use to them get your own prizes—but it was so. So. Boring.

Okay. It wasn’t necessarily that it was a boring job. On busy nights, there was plenty to do…but a lot of the kids were obnoxious, you didn’t get along all that well with your coworker, Keith, and you had so many things you would rather be doing.

Things like Billy Hargrove.

You’d been going steady for a while, though up until now, you’d kept it pretty private. It had all started when Billy climbed through your window one night after a particularly bad fight with his dad, and after you let him stay til morning, things snowballed. Now, you always found yourself missing him, especially since he had gotten a summer job as a lifeguard, and you were stuck dealing with gross kids at the arcade.

There was one group of you kids you really didn’t mind, though. Those nerdy ones, who always saved up as much cash as they could to come beat each other’s high scores and ingest way too much sugar. Will, Mike, Dustin, Lucas, El, and Max, Billy’s sister. Step sister.

He was always very clear about that.

Max was nice. You didn’t spend much time with her and really only saw her when she came into the arcade, but she seemed alright. You had known the boys pretty much your entire life—Hawkins was a small town, after all—and El was cool, too. They were a goofy bunch, and they always made you laugh, something that was very welcome during shitty shifts.

They loved making you laugh. To them, you were maybe the coolest girl in Hawkins. You’d babysat them all in the past, when they were younger and needed it, and now, they always looked forward to coming in while you were working to see you. Because they all had little crushes on you, and it always made Max and El roll their eyes.

You never really noticed, though. They were just goofy junior high kids who didn’t go out of their way to be overly obnoxious at the arcade, and you appreciated that. And besides, you were usually daydreaming about Billy while you worked, imagining him strutting around at the pool like an absolute asshole, all the moms checking him out. You wondered if he ever hit on them. He always told you that you were the only girl he ever wanted to be with, but you knew Billy, and you knew that he could be a total flirt.

As long as he kept climbing through your window at night, though, you wouldn’t complain.

The sound of footsteps and keys jingling pulled you away from your thoughts. Rather than look up at your new customer, though, you just sighed, staring down at your chipped nail polish.

“Can I help you?” You asked in a monotone voice that put Keith’s to shame.

“Damn, I thought working at an arcade would be a little more exciting than this, sweetheart.”

Your head snapped up and you grinned when you saw that Billy was leaning against the counter, smirking at you. It was too hot out for him to be wearing a jacket, and he stood before you in a black muscle tank that showed off his toned arms, an outfit choice you were sure he had made very purposely.

“What are you doing here?” You asked, pushing yourself up to lean across the counter and kiss his cheek. “I thought you had work all day.”

“Got off early.” He shrugged, pulling a cigarette from behind his ear. “Wanted to come see my girl.”

You heart swelled a little whenever he said that. Because you loved Billy Hargrove, and you loved being his girl.

“Got bored of Mrs. Wheeler, huh?” You joked.

He fixed you with a glare but it only lasted a few seconds before he was sneering at you in a way you had learned was playful. “Jealous?”

You scoffed. “As if. I get all the attention I need right here.”

Billy suddenly bristled, straightening up as he looked around. “Who do I gotta beat the shit out of?”

You snorted a laugh. “I was joking, Billy. Nothing exciting happens here. It’s totally boring and I always spend all day thinking about you.”

He visibly deflated and you had to keep yourself from laughing harder. “Oh. Good.”

“It’s good that I’m bored?” You raised a brow.

“No!” He said quickly, immediately scrambling over himself to take back what he had just said.

“It’s good that I daydream about you?” You grinned as he floundered.

He smirked at that, finding his normal cockiness again. “Course, baby. What else are you s’posed to do without me all day?”

You laughed at that, and it was like music to Billy’s ears.

“You got a break room around here?” He asked, craning his neck.

“…why?”

He looked back at you with those smoldering eyes of his and you felt your knees growing weak. “So I can make all those daydreams a reality, princess.”

Your face burned in a fierce blush, the kind that only Billy could bring on.

“Not gonna climb through my window tonight, Prince Charming?” You manage to flirt back. “Got somewhere to be? On a tight schedule?”

He offered you a genuine smile, the sort nobody else ever got to see. “Definitely not, baby. You know I just can’t get enough of you.”

And you laughed again, and he looked down at you warmly, because he was head over heels for his girl and nothing was ever gonna change that.

Someone else heard your laugh, too, and it brought smiles to their faces.

“See? I told you she’d be here!” Dustin said, elbowing Lucas.

“Ow! What was that for?”

“For not believing me!”

Max and El shared a look and both rolled their eyes. The boys’ little collective crush on you was more annoying than anything else, but it meant that the whole party spent most of their free time at the arcade now, which wasn’t the worst. It wasn’t like they usually had much money to spend at a place like Starcourt Mall, and none of them wanted to stick around the pool when Billy was working. At least the arcade had games they could enjoy while the guys paid you way too much attention, and Max’s shitty stepbrother only ever showed up when he was being forced to give her a ride home.

“Guys!” Mike said, giving Dustin and Lucas a look. “Focus! We need a game plan--”

Max rolled her eyes and grabbed El’s arm. “C’mon. I want a new high score on Dig Dug. Gotta leave Dustin in the dust.”

“I heard that!” Dustin yelled as the girls marched away. 

“Okay,” Lucas said, pulling a small roll of tickets out of his pocket. “How many do we have? We can just go up and get prizes, and then talk to her.”

The others glanced at each other. They almost never played the carnival-style games that actually spat out tickets, spending most of their time focusing on the cabinets that they actually cared about. 

“Guys, seriously?” Lucas groaned. “Am I the only one who got tickets?”

“We can still take those to the counter!” Will said. “We can just...get...candy, or something.”

Lucas gave him a skeptical look, but before he could say anything, Mike cut in. 

“Yeah, and then we can...we can ask about games,” he nodded enthusiastically.  “Or...something.”

“Or something?” Lucas asked. 

“Well do you have any ideas?”

“Let’s just...be cool,” Will suggested. 

“Yeah,” Dustin agreed, leading the way. “Just be cool, guys. Watch the master at work.”

“The master?” Mike scoffed as he followed. 

“Uh, duh,” Dustin said over his shoulder as the four of them walked between the rows of arcade games towards the kiosk at the back of the room. “The ladies can’t get enough of me!”

Mike and Lucas rolled their eyes and Will just laughed. This was the latest in a long line of attempts to talk to you, and they were all determined not to chicken out this time. You were always nice to them, and they thought you were just about the coolest girl around--besides Max and El, of course. On the ride over to the arcade, they had all been talking about how to talk to you, and they all had a good a feeling about today.

As the other three were still arguing, however, Will’s face fell. The kiosk was in view, and you were there...but so was someone else.

“Guys,” he hissed, grabbing someone’s arm. 

“What?” Mike snapped, coming to a sudden stop while the other two continued on. 

“Look,” Will whispered, nodding towards the counter. 

Mike looked...and then his face paled. There he was, the biggest asshole in town--no, in the entire state--leaning on the counter, smoking a cigarette, and talking to the girl they liked. 

“Oh,” Mike managed to say. “Oh no.”

Because there was Billy Hargrove, the guy who loved trying to run them over with his obnoxious, loud car. There was Max’s shitty, violent older brother, who only liked fighting and drinking and being a dick. There he was, trying to smooth talk you, acting like he had the right to stand there and enjoy your company. They watched as you smiled at Billy before stepping away, rolling your eyes at whatever your boss had just yelled towards you. 

Great. Now you were gone, and Hargrove was still there. And Dustin and Lucas were about to walk right into him. 

“Dustin!” Will hissed, trying to stop his friend before he got too close. 

But Dustin and Lucas were still arguing, looking at each other rather than where they were going. 

“--I’m going to strike up a conversation, and then you--”

“No way!” Dustin interrupted. “I’m talking first!”

“Why?”

“Because I know how to talk to girls, and--”

“Dustin!” Mike practically shouted at him. 

“What, Mike?” Dustin asked, looking back at him in annoyance. “Can’t you see we’re--”

He cut himself off by running into something. Unfortunately for him, that something was already turning around to snarl at who the fuck had the balls to interrupt his conversation. 

And Dustin stared up in horror as none other than Billy Hargrove glared daggers down at him, a cigarette clenched in his teeth, his blue eyes icy and angry. 

“Uh--”

“Uh?” Billy mocked, sneering down at him. “Get lost, twerp.”

“You get lost!” Dustin snapped back reflexively.

Billy’s eyes were blazing with rage. “What was that?”

Lucas was quickly backing up towards Will and Mike, trying to make himself seem as uninvolved as possible. 

Dustin gulped. 

“I-it’s a public arcade,” he said quickly, standing his ground. 

“Is it?” Billy growled. 

“Leave him alone, Billy!” Max yelled, suddenly appearing. 

“Great,” Billy said sarcastically. “Get your little friends outta here before they get hurt, Maxine.”

“Don’t call me that,” she growled. 

Billy’s nostrils flared angrily as he moved to flick his cigarette away. Max knew what that meant--they all did--and they had about ten seconds before he got pissed off enough to go after them. 

Before anyone could run, though, a new voice interrupted everything. 

“Oh, hey guys. It’s nice to see you.” You said, walking back behind the counter with a box of new inventory in your arms. 

The kids all perked up at your arrival, and Billy relaxed. Visibly. 

Max was baffled. Billy never calmed down that quickly, no matter who was around.

“What’s up?” you asked, seemingly oblivious to the angry tension.

In truth, you knew what was going on. Or, at least, you could guess—you knew Billy better than anybody, and you knew how he could get. You had seen his bouts of anger plenty of times, but it was never directed at you. Because your Billy was sweet, and just like he did now, he always calmed down for you.

“We just…uh…” Dustin stammered.

“Oh, do you guys have tickets?” You asked, noticing what Lucas held. “Want someone candy? You can have extra. Don’t tell Keith.”

That seemed to smooth things over, and the kids were willing to inch closer and snatch handfuls of candy out of the box you had brought out. Then, they all retreated, mumbling thank yous and running to regroup around Ms. Pac-Man.

“What the hell is he doing here?” Dustin hissed, ripping open a packet of Smarties.

“It looks like he’s…hitting on her,” Mike wrinkled his nose.

They all peered around the games to watch as Billy returned to his former position, leaning casually against the counter as you sorted inventory.

“Ugh, can’t he just leave her alone?” Lucas grumbled through a mouthful of chocolate.

“She clearly isn’t into him,” Dustin said confidently.

“She isn’t, right?” Will asked, glancing at the others. “I mean, nobody likes him. Right?”

“Right,” Mike agreed. “And definitely not her.”

“Yeah, so we have to get him to back off!” Dustin said.

“And how are we gonna do that?” Lucas asked, glaring at him.

“We’ll just…tell him to go away.” Mike said. “Right? That’ll work.”

“Yeah, there’s four of us, and one of him,” Dustin agreed.

“Good luck with that,” Max mumbled, leaning against a cabinet.

They all turned to fix her with a look before their attention was back on you. They couldn’t hear what Billy was saying, but they were sure it was totally lame…and they were so convinced that you didn’t want the attention that they mistook your genuine smiles and laughter for something more awkward and polite, as if you were simply putting up with him because you couldn’t escape.

That couldn’t be further from the truth.

“God, you’re sexy,” Billy said as he watched you count out packets of cheap candy.

You glanced up at him, unable to hide your smile. “I’m in my work uniform, Billy. It’s not very sexy. I don’t even have any makeup on.”

“I like you without it.”

“I thought you said you loved my lipstick?”

“Yeah, I love smudging it all over,” he smirked. “Love making your mascara run, too…”

“Billy!“ you whispered, laughing. “I’m at work!”

“I still wanna find that break room…”

“Billy!”

“What? Can’t a guy sneak his girlfriend off for a quickie once in a while?” He gave you a wolfish grin, watching you like a big, scary predator might watch a cute little bunny rabbit.

But two could play at that game.

“What if I prefer something a little longer?” You asked, a suggestive tone in your voice. “Maybe…tonight?”

“Now you’re speakin’ my language, doll.” He puffed on his cigarette, giving you a lazy smile. “It’s a date.”

You smiled and bit your lip, tossing a piece of candy at him and laughing when it hit his chest. He chuckled, reaching out to smooth his thumb over your cheek. He was looking down at you with such a warm expression that you felt yourself melting, his bright eyes suddenly seeming so peaceful. When you leaned into his touch, you closed your eyes for a moment, just enjoying the feeling of his skin against yours.

Your audience, meanwhile, was growing angry.

“What is he doing?!” Dustin practically yelled. “He can’t touch her!”

The others all nodded, agreeing, their voices rising as they worked up the courage to intervene.

Max, however, was quiet as she shared a look with El.

“Guys,” Max said, trying to get their attention. “Guys!”

“What?” They all asked in unison, staring at her.

“Leave them alone,” she said.

“Are you crazy?” Mike asked. “He’s bothering her!”

“I don’t think he is…” El said.

“What? What are you talking about?” Lucas asked.

“I think she’s into him,” Max said, trying not to retch as she thought about anyone liking her brother.

“What?”

“They’re into each other,” El agreed nodding. “I can tell.”

“How can you tell?” Dustin asked angrily.

“I watch TV.”

He grumbled something and rolled his eyes, sitting on a stool in defeat. “Great. Just great.”

“I think they look happy,” El commented, watching as you laughed at something Billy said again.

“Happy? How can anyone be happy with him?” Mike asked.

“I don’t know, but El is right,” Max said. “He never acts like that around anyone else.”

When they all looked back at the two of you, they could see you smiling a real, genuine smile…and Billy was returning it, suddenly looking a lot less like a sleazebag than he usually did.

“I’ll get outta here,” Billy said, giving you a quick kiss. “Want a ride home later?”

“Nah, I drove,” you shrugged.

“Then I’ll see you after you get back?”

“I sure hope so, Romeo,” you gave him a coy smile and another kiss.

Billy gave you a long, lingering look, and it took everything in him to force himself to turn and leave.

You got a pretty nice view of his butt in those tight jeans, though.

As he passed the kids, he paused to snap at them.

“The hell are you lookin’ at?” He growled, fixing them all with the glare they were so used to from him.

“Nothing!” They all stammered as they shook their heads and turned to the various games around them.

He just snorted angrily and kept walking. They watched him go before their heads swiveled to see you standing in your usual spot, a wistful look on your face as Billy Hargrove walked out to his Camaro.

“Dang,” Mike sighed. “They really are a thing, aren’t they?”

“Oh well,” Lucas grumbled.

“At least now I can focus on my high scores again,” Dustin mumbled, hopping off the stool and heading towards an arcade cabinet.

They dispersed, heading to their favorite games. El and Max just looked at each other and shook their heads.

“Boys,” Max scoffed.

“Boys.” El agreed.

[bebx]

Will Byers deserves so much better. First they forgot his birthday. Now they have Mike say his life began AFTER WILL DISAPPEARED, IN FRONT OF WILL, use Will’s feelings as props and plot devices to develop a cliche straight ship. (No, I have nothing against El and Mike being endgame, if they’re heading that way. I actually liked them together a lot in the first 2 seasons, but their chemistry kind of died down since season 3 in my opinion. Still, I have nothing against them. They’re still adorable together) but the problem is, they did Will so dirty this season.

Also, Will’s sexuality wasn’t really addressed like how they said it would be addressed. Having him cry in that van while Mike was being clueless wasn’t a coming out scene.

The latter part isn’t even about ship war but about how they kind of queerbaited the audience by saying they would address Will’s sexuality, when it turned out his sexuality wasn’t addressed…

[howtobecomeadragon]

A ton of credit for this post goes to @dinitride-art, who pointed out Mike's discomfort being at Suzie's house in Part 13 of their lighting analysis, I hadn't picked up on that previously at all. I wanted to expand on that a little, focusing more on just Mike (not Will as we've seen him accept himself and his sexuality a lot more and as such there's just not as much here to analyze with Will) instead of the lighting, but all props go to @dinitride-art!!! Check out their lighting analysis, it's been blowing my mind!

So we've all talked about how Mike's parents being Reagan supporters definitely could have impacted Mike's internalized homophobia. But as far as I remember, there aren't any religious symbols in the Wheeler house and religion hasn't played a part in the show much before.

Suzie being Mormon played a role in s3, as an explanation for why Dustin and Suzie needed to keep in touch via radio instead of via the phone. But in s4, we see Suzie's household being a field of landmines for Mike's internalized homophobia. That lens kind of puts into context this ridiculous sideplot that felt on the first watch through like a bit of a time suck: it showed Mike's discomfort and fear of being himself.

Walking up to the house, Jonathon warns them that they need to "be on their best behavior, with Mike pointing out "they're just really religious." This is played for laughs with respect to Argyle, but that line is there to highlight something else: internalized homophobia that makes Mike hesitant to admit his feelings towards Will. Argyle says he's super spiritual, and Mike says "I think they're spiritual too, just in a different way." With the implication being that while Argyle's spirituality is free and connected with nature, Suzie's family may be more likely to judge them... maybe just Argyle and so he shouldn't talk about smoking in front of them, but it's more than that, and Mike knows that. We'll come back to these lines later.

We see in the sequence before they find Suzie that there's a ton of imagery that, pre-vol2, a lot of people theorized were death clues towards Mike's, but seeing that he remained physically unharmed in vol2, I'm guessing that this imagery instead was meant to imply how unsafe Mike feels in this house. He is gay and struggling with feelings towards Will, and doesn't want to be found out and condemned by this super religious family. @dinitride-art mentioned that entering the house, Will is on Mike's LEFT side, with Mike's heart pocket facing away from Will, which rarely happens this season. Mike is trying to appear more straight.

Back to the house being dangerous for Mike: he's hit in the head with a fake arrow, a girl drops in front of Mike, choking and bleeding from the neck (a reminder for Mike that he needs save El quickly, as well as imagery similar to El later on being choked by the vines, and this foreshadowing in this house while he's trying to appear straight also foreshadows that Mike's love confession doesn't work because it's not genuine, he can't save everyone with a lie), the knife chopping quickly with Mike emerging from the background, and then more subtly, the discomfort associated with being expected to be in love with El, reflected in Mike's annoyance at Argyle and Eden flirting: "falling in love at first sight" with a girl.

After that scene, we skip to other characters but it's important to note that directly preceding returning to Suzie's, we are once again shown religion being used against our characters: Jason basically preaches to the town about why they need to hunt the Hellfire club down because they're Satanic worshippers and murderers. Just an interesting parallel: they're really hammering home that religion is dangerous for our characters right now. These scenes are one after another to show that parallel: it's not just happening back in Hawkins, it's in Salt Lake City too.

In the next scene, we see Eden interrupt and mock Suzie's scolding about her language, saying "what, am I going to burn in hell now?" and then we see Mike looking after her, looking... on edge and holding himself stiffly. Eden's words are a reminder of punishments for sinning, including being gay. A forcible reminder that they're in a very religious house, to Mike and the audience. We then see him glancing back at Will right after that as Will speaks up to continue the conversation. Will helps him stay on track with what they need when he's distracted and Will's also there as someone to help Mike as he feels anxious in this house.

But when Suzie talks about how her dad took her computer, there's a big focus on her dating the wrong person, an Agnostic(!), and her father's anger towards her and punishment. When we cut back to our group, Mike is hanging his head, likely reflecting on how that punishment could apply to him as well, but soon after, he looks back to Will again. Just looking at Will provides comfort, maybe helps Mike feel like he's not a mistake??

Moving onto the next segment, we see Mike pressed against the wall before sneaking into Suzie's father's study, and Mike is the main focus of this shot. All the other characters hiding here are basically hidden in shadows, but we see Mike's face: he's afraid of Suzie's dad for more reasons than just the obvious.

Once inside, we see Mike censor himself from saying "holy shit," changing it to "holy heck." Going back to the opening lines at this house, Mike suggested that Argyle is the one that would have to change his behavior around Suzie's family, but no. We see Argyle act completely genuine with no suppression of how he always acts and he does perfectly okay inside the house. Mike, on the other hand, has to suppress his language, but what else? We see Mike shifting away from Will when he gets close. This is possibly the first and only time Mike moves away from Will like that in the entire show?? It would make sense that he would do this here, in the office of a man that gets angry at a kid for dating the wrong person according to his religion, with a religious painting right behind their heads.

Running down the stairs, as mentioned by @dinitride-art, Mike pushes himself as far away from Suzie's father as possible. Will on the other hand, looks him right in the face, going back to the idea that Will feels more comfortable with his sexuality now in the face of people that might disagree with it.

And then we see Will putting his hand on Mike's back, almost to comfort him, as if he knows Mike felt uncomfortable in that house.

In conclusion, being in Suzie's house with her big Mormon family was Mike's big "when you're different you feel like a mistake" moment, but he looked to Will for comfort, and Will provided it, making Mike feel like he's not a mistake at all.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Wait - are you leaving the fandom ? That would be so sad omg

I'm thinking about it. The Duffers probably don't even realize it, but they've really hurt me deeply here. I thought we were well past the time of gay storylines that only exist to prop up straight main characters.

They could have explored Will's sexuality in any way that didn't involve a hopeless love for Mike. They didn't. His feelings have literally now been used to help El win and help El and Mike's relationship.

It's been nothing more than a plot device, and that's just infuriating. I don't know that I want to continue being a part of the fandom for a show that does it.

[beepboop358]

hi! i thought your byler slides were very interesting and gave me an new perspective on the ship and the show in general, however i noticed there were a few misconceptions in it. mostly, a lot of the “gay symbols” were incorrect. the references to frogs near mike are because he was called frogface, which was a derogatory for “nerd” in the eighties, and frogs didn’t become a symbol for the gay community until recently (the homophobic rhetoric that water “turns frogs gay” is a recent trend). same with the gay men flag, regardless of your opinion about it the flag didn’t gain popularity until around 2019 and i don’t think the color of mike’s clothing is enough to conclude the duffers were eluding to it. and the bear flag was created exclusively for and by a gay subculture called “bears” who were hairy, beefy, older men, so i highly doubt that the duffers surrounded teenage will byers with symbolism of it lmao

hi anon!

aw thanks! <3 I respectfully disagree that the frogs, bears and Mike's clothes/room reflecting the colors of the gay men's flag aren't hints to their sexualities because I think they are mixing in current references into the 80's setting. The show doesn't follow strict period realism as far as other little details (like the green and red m&m's Mike gives El in season 3 because those hand't come out yet in July of 1985) so i don't think its a huge jump or unrealistic to think that they are mixing in current culture references as hints to Mike & Will's sexuality, to make it more obvious for viewers today, because at the end of the day the show's airing now, and most of it's viewers were not alive in the 80's, nor will they dig into what did/didn't exist in the 80's, so strictly 80's references will be lost on the vast majority of viewers. I think it's fairly smart of them to use some non-80's references actually, it helps keep the show current and not too stuck in the past, and it definitely appeals to young teens and adults more by doing this, which as the show progresses, seems to be more and more geared towards. Also, the prop team & costume designers/wardrobe team put a lot of thought & effort into making the mise-en-scene of the show reflect details about the characters, which is what they are supposed to do, and the duffers do not pick every single thing they do. They get information about the characters, and to a certain level, they have free range with how they portray that, and then get it cleared by higher ups. Anyways, let's just agree to disagree 😊

Hope you're well! xx

[blognarrymybabes]

As I have said before. I am done. I can’t. I can’t watch it and I am not going to even watch season 4. It’s too heartbreaking and I have no fucking hopes for season 5. I just watched Will and Mike’s clip in the van , the Mike el forehead touch and Mike monologue and I can’t believe they can hate a character to this degree.

I feel like they had too many ideas and instead of keeping it simple and core to the main characters they tried to do too many different things from different references (remember the white board with all movie names they took their so called inspiration from) that it turned into a big flop.

To have an unrequited love is fine

To have an unrequited gay love is also fine

But in this situation with everything that we have seen so far from season 1

IT IS NOT FINE

The whole thing doesn’t make sense. Mike wheeler doesn’t make sense. His character went from the leader, the protector, the person who could tell Will was alive by just his breathing, the person who knew his mood or if he was okay is now a prop for Eleven, he didn’t even questioned why Will is crying, didn’t even noticed ???? And actually smiled when Will said El needs you. I can’t !!!! Mike’s character couldn’t be more degressed they made him into a pathetic asshole who is like a jerk to his best friend of 10 years apparently for no reason and the only problem he has is telling eleven I love you back

The whole Eleven’s development till Season 4 Vol1 flushed down the drain by getting back together with Mike because of his love for her.

And I can’t even formulate about Will, the once Main Character reduced to a gay pining selfless boy who only touches his neck when he senses vecna. He has been through so much so so much and he thinks he is a mistake 💔

This all is just lazy ass writing trying to keep your audience (mileven shippers) happy. Everything boiling down to that lousy, zero genuine Mike monologue and they called that his best acting !

They used Will’s feelings to push Mike and Eleven together. They treated Will’s character and his feelings like shit. He opened his entire heart to Mike ! Told him he is the heart of the group all so that Mike can tell Eleven I love you. I hate this. They treated his character like shit, his feelings were like device to prove mileven is endgame. It already was !!!! They both are dating for two seasons now. They made him so miserable.

And I with my own two eyes saw the swing set in vol1 I was not tripping. I mean how that painting changed

I give up. I got way too attached. My mistake.

I have never been queerbaited before this was my first time and I can’t handle it tbh.

This is homophobic and queerbaiting to the next level

I honestly believed Byler was real. Will deserves so much, I can see that he is going to sacrifice in the future. He basically did that now in season 4 for Mike to be with El

I learnt my lesson the hardest way possible

And yes it’s queerbaiting !!!

I mean the actors are telling one thing in the interviews and series is completely different

Finn was like “Mike is trying to be normal and is in to new things “ and Mike’s entire I love you monologue to Eleven was fucking forced ! So forced!

Duffers said “ he was given some hard hitting stuff. His best acting” wtf

Duffers said “the painting is important they had several drafts.” In vol1 i could see the swing set with my own two bloody eyes but it is not swing set it is something else”

Duffers said “Will’s sexuality will be addressed” I am like where?

Welcome to American media. Here they show that they're inclusive but no our main cast is obviously CIS het people. Cuz omg are you kidding me?

This morning Netflix crashed so they got the money alright

I don’t have it in me to watch stranger things anymore I think I know where they are going with this.

I am hoping and I will happy if Will turns out to be a villain

I am going to be in Byler land reading fics and just whatever happened today didn’t happened

And for the record I am straight, I just fell in love with Will’s character and then realized Byler while watching. And I have queer friends and people in my family who do think the same thing and ship Byler. [ I had made a post about how I started shipping Byler. I was hesitant to put it out. But if you’re interested in reading I will upload it ]

So no you guys here are not delusional at all. If I could see it, anyone can. It’s common sense and following the story it doesn’t have to be some kind of lens.

Either Noah and Finn are crushing over each other or Duffers are coward and chickened out. If they did, they are stupid enough to not realize the gold mine they were sitting on.

That’s it for my rant.

[cornedbeefhashtags]

A lot of people are upset at the ST writers not making him say it versus Robin being able to say it, but once you get past people's knee-jerk reaction about that there is (I think anyway) merit to the argument that his coming out story shouldn't have been used to prop up and advance a straight storyline. Gay characters are more than just plot devices and people felt hurt by the fact that something so important to Will's character would be used as a tool for other characters, especially when he's already been sidelined so much as it is. It's less about just the fact that he didn't say he's gay and more about the fact that his coming out ultimately had more relevance and impact on a straight couple than it did his own character's journey, which thus far has mainly just been to get that straight couple back together. There was also the fact that Will gets called a multitude of slurs in S1 and that's the only explicit mention of his sexuality (and gay men in general) that there is in the text. Then, when they do decide to get a little heavy handed with the Will Likes Mike bit, they make it so that Mike treats him like a ghost of his past that forgets about him any time that Eleven is around despite none of their other friends doing that and the same not being true for Robin. Or how they're friendly when it's a light moment but when Will's crush comes out suddenly Mike's promises are meaningless and he goes back to being written like a blind, bad friend that's nothing like his previous iterations. Or how they start the season saying that Will did his painting for his crush and that 11 didnt know about it and then all of a sudden it's something else in volume two. As if they want to write this without having to write it. It's a lot of things lol and a lot of it points to this odd bias in the writing choices between how they treat straight characters vs lesbians vs gay characters, mainly the lack of empathy or willingness to dig deep with the latter, which is less of a portrayal of the times and more of how they decide to write this show as two straight white men themselves that want to play it safe. There are ways to talk about it and treat his character with the same respect they do all others and still be true to the time period it's set in. Sorry to rant lol. I had gotten my hopes up that they'd finally recognize his sexuality, and they did, but I was let down by the fact that it ended up being meaningless for him aside from the scene with Jonathan.

Hey, anon. I’m not sure where to begin, so I’m going to start with the setting. One of the major cultural moments that sets the stage for season 4 is the Satanic Panic of the 1980s. There was a surge of countercultural fear fueled by media portrayals of serial killers and conspiracy theories, which resulted in things like Dungeons & Dragons being singled out as alleged gateways to devil worshipping cults. The insular and extremely Midwestern town of Hawkins pinning a series of murders on the local dungeon master like he was some kind of Charles Manson-style cultist instead of a board game nerd isn’t all that far-fetched.

You know what else insular little Midwestern towns weren’t super understanding about in the 1980s? Queerness. Stranger Things is set during the height of the Reagan administration, which means that it’s also set during the height of the AIDS crisis. The homophobia and bullying that you’re describing from season 1 were facts of life for a lot of young people, and Robin took a HUGE risk when she came out to Steve. It’s notable that this was a one-time event for her: she and Steve carefully avoid outing her to their friends when they discuss their platonic relationship, and Robin all but panics when she thinks she’s accidentally outed herself to Vickie at the basketball game.

With all of that being said, Stranger Things has always been a show about feeling like an outsider. We see it with Lucas as he attempts to fit in with the jocks, we see it with El as she tries to adjust to a new school, we see it with Steve as he discovers that his high school popularity doesn’t translate into adulthood… etc. So what happens to someone who starts to feel like an outsider from the designated outsiders? That’s a lonely existence, and I think it’s exactly where Will is at right now. Robin came out to her best friend from a place of trust, but Will has discovered that he has feelings for an increasingly distant best friend who presumably can’t reciprocate.

None of this is to say that I don’t want Will to have a happy ending, or that I think the Duffer Brothers are gay storytelling geniuses. But man… a lonely kid realizing over the course of a few summers that he no longer has anything in common with the boys he grew up with? A kid who’s feeling isolated and immature because his friends have all discovered girls and he’s realized that that moment is never going to happen for him? I lived that. I would have killed for an older brother who recognized that something was wrong. It drives me nuts that people expect Will and Robin to have identical experiences, or that they expect Mike to magically overcome his acute case of being a shithead 15-year old so that he can have the same relationship with Will that he had 20% of his lifetime ago. I absolutely hope that Will has a happy ending, and that he gets to address his feelings for Mike without having to pretend that he’s talking about something else, but his current situation is heartfelt and really resonated with me.

[watchmakermori]

thoughts on stranger things 4

okay so I finally finished those marathon final two episodes and I have a lot of thoughts on the series as a whole. I’ll be spoiling everything so consider this a warning

on the whole, i still think this is the best season since the first one, even if these last two episodes had a lot of shit that annoyed me. something I do really appreicate is that the end of this season doesn’t just reset things back to the same cutesy basics. season 5 is the final one and the end of this season feels like it’s actually gearing up for the climax, which is good

I said after volume one of season 4 that hopper being alive wasn’t justified, and I still believe that now. the hopper subplot added nothing to this season. I did have a vague hope that the russia storyline would tie into the main one, but it didn’t - or at least, not well enough to make it worthwhile. they introduced the whole ‘killing the russian demogorgons to weaken vecna’ shit really late on, and I honestly don’t think it tracks with the canon from previous seasons. yes, everything in the Upside Down is part of a hive mind, but it’s never been the case that killing one demogorgon harms the others. it seemed to have a top-down effect, wherein hurting the mind flayer hurt all the underlings it was controlling - it was never the case that hurting demodogs and demogorgons hurt the mind flayer. so it just felt like an asspull to try and give the russian storyline more weight. it didn’t work. this season was already crammed to the brim with unnecessary characters and I honestly believe they could’ve scrapped the russia plot without changing the main beats of the season at all

I am so fucking pissed about how they treated will this season. will’s character has more potential than most of the cast, but they continually shaft him and push him into the background. I hoped this season would actually address his sexuality, and I guess it did, sort of. but it did it in the most cumbersome, graceless way possible. will all but comes out to mike in 4x08, talking about he feels different and like a mistake, and they use his emotional outburst to hype up the relationship between mike and el. i can’t even put into words how shitty that is. i was dreading will confessing love to mike and being relegated to Sad Gay With A Crush On Het Friend Jail, but this was somehow even worse than that. will’s feelings never get enough space in the narrative as it is. the fact that they used them to prop up a het relationship makes me want to snort glass

the missed potential is unreal to me. you have a character who was dragged into a supernatural dimension at a young age, and this trauma is something that he cannot talk about because nobody can understand what he went through. he feels like an anomaly and a freak. the closeted metaphor literally writes itself and the fact that the duffer brothers have never used will’s supernatural trauma to explore his personal trauma around his sexuality is utterly baffling to me. i might turn into the joker, actually

I wish every season didn’t have to end with the same psychic boss battle. I think the reason everyone went so fucking hogwild for the ‘running up that hill’ scene is because it’s one of the only moments post-season one that actually shows us something genuinely new. before that scene, every single monster in the show has been overcome by superpowers or other means of brute force. seeing max triumph over vecna via emotional strength, as a manifestation of getting past her inner trauma, was fresh and different and brilliant. that scene is easily the best part of this season, which is why it’s disappointing to see max get chucked back into another confrontation and get saved, surprise surprise, by eleven’s psychic powers this time. it was cool the first time el blew up an eldritch monster with her mind, but after four seasons...I don’t know. I wish vecna could have been vanquished by something more creative than molotov cocktails and psychic assault

on a similar note, I’m in two minds about max surviving. on the one hand, it would’ve been a real downer for her to die after already going through so much. on the other hand, her death would’ve actually raised the stakes and shown me that the writers have the balls to make unexpected narrative choices. the moment where max cries and says that she doesn’t want to die was the only part of the episode that actually twisted my gut. it was the only part where I thought “holy shit, surely they wouldn’t”. and, of course, they didn’t. giving us yet another fake-out death, hot on the heels of hopper’s in season 3, feels cheap. but it will depend on how they handle max’s arc in the next season. she’s still in a bad way, so if the cost is big enough, I think they could get away with it

sadie sink is the highlight of this season and I won’t be taking criticism on that. I've always been lukewarm towards max and never felt they utilised her enough, so I’m glad they finally did something good with her character

vecna would’ve been more interesting if henry hadn’t been such a blatant demon child. the final episode tries to pull off some parallels between eleven and vecna/henry/one, but it falls flat, because there really isn’t enough nuance to henry. he’s presented as inherently evil, some screwed up kid who was obsessed with spiders and killed his family before brenner even got his hands on him. i think he’d have been much more interesting if his evil stemmed more from how brenner had treated him. perhaps he could’ve still killed his family, but unintentionally. perhaps brenner could’ve isolated him and fed his worst instincts, just like he did with eleven, except that she had the fortune to escape. given how el’s arc in this series is about her fear of her own violence, letting her face off against someone more similar to herself, who did become the weapon brenner wanted him to be, would’ve been more satisfying.

the final episode did not need to be two and a half fucking hours. dragging things out doesn’t create more drama, it kills it. it’s hilarious to me that steve, nancy, and robin were basically being choked by vecna’s vines for like 20 minutes straight and somehow didn’t die. they probably could’ve got the whole episode under 2 hours if they’d just trimmed out some of the relentless slow-mo moments

yes i will watch the final season. yes I am very glad that there’s only one more. duffer brothers if you don’t give will a storyline in the final season i will eat you alive myself

[giveamadeuschohisownmovie]

I’ve been sitting on this for a while now. Well, here goes, this is my attempt to streamline the story for Stranger Things seasons 2-3

Season 2

1) For the most part, this season is mostly the same. In terms of episode placement, I’d switch episodes 6 and 7 around. Instead of “The Lost Sister” killing the momentum from the previous episode, El’s standalone episode will instead hype up the next episode. Why did El see Mike screaming in fear? You’re gonna have to watch the next episode to find out! See, the story flows much better this way.

2) Billy Hargrove is removed entirely. Instead, upgrade Tommy H and Carol’s characters and have them share the Billy role. This way, Steve’s rivalry with the high school bully is much more personal, there’s a stronger motivation from the bully’s side, and you don’t have to waste screen time introducing the bullies as we already saw them in the previous season.

3) It goes without saying but Max Mayfield is now either Tommy or Carol’s stepsister. 

Season 3 

1) Robin Buckley is removed entirely. Instead, Jonathan and Nancy take over her role in the season. Nancy is the one who cracks the Soviets’ code while Jonathan is the social outcast who Steve bonds with. In this rewrite, Nancy is still friends with Steve despite their breakup and wants him to get along with Jonathan. That’s why the three of them are paired up this season. This will save a ton of screentime as we don’t have to waste time on character introductions since we already know who Jonathan and Nancy are. 

(side note: yes, I am aware that I’m taking away the show’s only LGBT character. While that sucks, I blame the writers for making Robin’s sole unique character trait being that she’s LGBT. Outside of her sexual orientation, she can easily be removed from the story in favor of established characters. When your POC/LGBT character’s only defining trait is that they’re POC/LGBT, there’s a problem with the writing. And even THEN, I’m not giving the show props for Robin’s coming out scene as that was a last minute decision that was requested by the actors. Robin was supposed to be Steve’s love interest and that fact is painfully obvious when you re-watch season 3.)

2) The entire journalism subplot is removed entirely. Nancy and Jonathan could mention that they are working at the Hawkins newspaper office but that’s about it. Instead, Nancy’s asshole bosses are now either the managers of Scoops Troops or the Starcourt Mall.

3) Heather is removed entirely. Since Tommy H and Carol have been upgraded to the main cast, Carol now takes Heather’s place.  

4) With the freed up screentime we have from cutting out several characters and subplots, we can now spend more time developing the Soviet faction. Get some more insight on Alexei, Grigori, and why the Soviets want to access the Upside Down

5) Tone down Hopper’s assholery. Also, add more scenes with him reflecting on his role as El’s father figure. 

6) Since Nancy and Jonathan are teamed up with Steve, for the hospital fight scene with the Flayed, have Max and Lucas take their place. Since Max and Lucas don’t have much to do after episode 3, they can have the fight scene with the Flayed monster. Mike and El can sit this fight out as they’re presumably still tired from the sauna fight scene (also, they need the time to talk about their relationship). Side note, I know I didn’t mention Will Byers, I’ll get to him in a later point.  

7) While it was nice that El was the one to break through to Billy in the season finale (in this case, Tommy or Carol), Max should’ve been the one to get through to him. Instead, have El be the middle man by helping the step-siblings communicate with each other. 

8) Cut out the Billy-Karen romance subplot entirely. It went nowhere in the actual show so just get rid of it. Instead, Billy/Tommy’s flirting with Karen in season 2 will just be a funny, one-off scene. 

9) Reduce Erica Sinclair back down to a recurring role. Sorry but she’s a one-dimensional character whose only significant role was to climb through a narrow vent. There’s no need for her to be in the main cast as she works better as a recurring character.

10) To add on to the previous point, have Will Byers take Erica’s place in the Scoops Troops storyline. Think about it, he barely has anything to do in the Mike-El-Lucas-Max storyline so have him hang out with Dustin. There’s more room for his character to develop, we can see more of his friendship with Dustin since that’s barely seen on the show, and he can hang out with his brother as Jonathan’s been moved to the Scoops Troops storyline. We don’t really get to see Jonathan and Will bond outside of season 1. Also, there’d be more use to his “Mind Flayer” senses in the Scoops Troops storyline as he could sense the Soviets’ gate to the Upside Down.

(EDIT: Oh, I just realized something. Since Will is in the Scoops Troops storyline in this rewrite, he could take the Robin coming out scene. Yeah, it would be something along the lines of him listening to Jonathan and Steve bond with each other, then the topic switching to girls. Jonathan and Steve talk about Nancy, then when they ask if Will has a girl he likes, that’s when we get the big reveal.)

11) Possible controversial point: Upgrade the season to 9 episodes. The extra episode is a standalone story that focuses on the Soviets. We learn more about their motivations and how they learned about the Upside Down. At the very least, we learn enough about them to make us not question their presence in the show. 

[steveharrington]

what do you think are the problems with how the kids are written in s3?

okay to preface this some of these problems arent really Problems they’re like. nitpicks. and a lot of them are just a matter of opinion based on my perception of the kids so im not trying to like trash this season skdfjsdlkfj 

max: i had the most beef with max’s storyline bc i think its the most like. egregious flaw of the season. im Not talking about her being teamed up with el, i thought that was actually great and one of the best parts of the season. im talking specifically about her dynamic with billy. after watching him try to beat up lucas and then actually beat up steve only like 8 months before the season you’d think, realistically, she’d be cautious around billy. in season two she was obviously scared of him, like in the car when he grabbed her arm and she was visibly terrified, so it makes absolutely no sense that in season three she’d be willing to sneak into his room and make all these justifications as to why he’s just a normal teenage boy. ive seen people be like “she was just in denial, she didn’t think he’d really kill anyone!” and like........yeah maybe? but she did watch him almost kill steve. their relationship is just so much more casual and like....friendly? compared to season two which like severely sucks because it sorta just erases any trauma max would have relating to her brother being violent and aggressive and prone to just attacking her friends. it was all part of this weird backpedal the duffers did to convince us that billy actually isnt That Bad and therefore deserves a redemption arc. as someone who really related to max in season two because of that sibling dynamic, it sucks. 

mike: i think they took the whole “mike is a brooding asshole” thing way too far this season, and they have no real justification for it. in season one, mike is a fucking sweetheart. he’s selfless to the point of literally jumping off a cliff for dustin. he has a line where he’s specifically like “you’re All my best friends and i dont prioritize any one of you over anyone else.” in season two, he’s obviously moody and irritable, but that’s because he’s Insanely Traumatized. he formed a really close bond with el and then watched her fucking disappear into who knows where, he doesn’t know if she’s alive or dead, he’s terrified for will, it makes sense in season two why he would be so perpetually angry at the world and everyone around him. in season three, though, mike is in a pretty good spot. will is fine, el is fine And he gets to see her, his literal biggest problem at the start of the season is that he’s scared of hopper and his middle school relationship is in turmoil. it makes No Sense that he’d completely brush off will and then basically be like “fuck you gayboy” when will brings this up. like since when!!! does mike have such little regard for his friends!! it serves no purpose other than drama and it destroys basically his core character trait

will: obviously he was just like completely sidelined this season. i think it’s good that he has a storyline about feeling alienated from his friends as they grow up and he tries to cling to his childhood and the things that feel normal to him. my only complaint is that they gave him like, one episode to explore that storyline. also i really don’t think will would have so much outright contempt for el. like i get what they’re going for, i get that it’s part of his conflicting feelings about his own sexuality and his dynamic with mike and stuff, but el isn’t just a random girl to will. there should have been a little more nuance there imo

el: honestly don’t have that many problems with el’s storyline this season. i Loved the idea of her exploring an identity that isn’t just what other people think of her or expect of her, loved her hanging out with max, i even liked her investigating the billy thing UNTIL they just used her as a prop to make us feel sad for billy. but overall i think she had a really good story in season 3

lucas: again. severely underutilized. lucas is kinda just becoming comic relief which really bugs me because he was amazing in season one when he actually got to have a story arch that wasn’t just like. having a crush on a girl. i do appreciate that lucas had like 50 moments of heroism. idk if that was like, an accident, because they never really explicitly discuss it, but there were multiple moments in season 3 where lucas basically saved everyone’s ass. would’ve liked to see more of him and erica because she’s, yknow, his little sister and they barely interact the whole season. 

dustin: ok ok ok OK OK dustin is complicated this season because they kinda did a complete 180 with him halfway through the season. i was Really vibing with dustin for the first like, five episodes. dustin has always been written as kind of a lonely child, even within his group of friends, and so i think it’s natural that he have a season away from them. the sweetest thing about steve and dustin’s relationship is that dustin has always felt to some degree like an outsider in his own group (in season one he’s already come to terms with the fact that mike likes will and lucas more than him) and so it’s doubly sweet that he befriends this “cool” “badass” older kid who’s actually super lame and he can be lame with. and for the first half of season three, they really cashed in on that bond. dustin and steve wrote to each other while he was at camp, they have a secret handshake, he Literally says the words “you die, i die” like it’s an intense bond that’s only natural from someone like dustin who is so intensely loyal to his friends and finally has someone who he can consider to be His Own. but then the moment steve and robin get taken by the russians it’s suddenly like a switch is flipped and dustin is just. annoyed and exasperated???? he’s not really in a hurry to get help, he’s not that concerned when steve is like laying on the floor with his face absolutely smashed to hell, he’s MAD at steve when he tells him that he accidentally gave up his name UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF DRUGS like it’s insane. the scoops troop storyline as a whole has this really weird, kinda disturbing, comedic tone and i think this just falls under that. they ultimately decided that dustin being an exasperated keeper of two stoned teenagers would be way funnier than dustin being genuinely concerned that his favorite person just got his shit absolutely wrecked. also, the suzy thing was weird. 

[lesbianrobin]

I’m not talking about the other boys, and sexuality or battle of the sexes as maturity, I’m specifically talking about Lucas. Mike has always needed to outgrow his view of El as “other,” from their first interaction in season one, and Lucas’s character wasn’t created as a prop to project Will’s adolescent struggles into, he has his own relationship with both El and Max. The boys being boys about girls is a narrative they’re telling, but they go from Lucas learning what he THOUGHT Max wanted

wasn’t what she wanted, modifying his behaviour, and connecting with her and listening to her in a way no one had bothered to do since she’d moved to Hawkins, to telling Mike girls like shiny things and he’s the victim of El’s emotions when she breaks up with him. Romance aside, we saw him do the same thing in season one, where he changed his opinion of El when he had the information to understand her, and he apologized, accepted her apology, and modified his behaviour accordingly.

I understand that your initial point wasn’t about sexuality or maturity, but that is what the storyline was about, so I thought that it was relevant to the discussion. 

I do get what you’re saying now, though, that S3 feels like a regression for Lucas. I essentially agree that it does go back on what he learned in S2, but my belief is that the shift from friendship to an official romantic relationship changes things, and it feels believable to me that in the intermediary period between middle and high school, after beginning his first relationship, Lucas might struggle with viewing Max as his friend Max, as herself, rather than as his girlfriend. “Girlfriend” comes with strings, a list of things you’re supposed to do and not supposed to do, and Lucas is working off of the cultural template that he’s familiar with. Teenagers in relationships often behave this way in real life. 

By the end of S3, we see that Lucas and Max are back to normal, goofing around with each other, and I think that his behavior in S3, while not the most flattering and not what we want to see from a character we love, makes sense for both Lucas as an individual and for the kids’ collective plotline. He relearns more or less the same thing he learned in S2, but with the added element of Max being his girlfriend rather than his crush, and it’s debatable how much that qualifies as being a new lesson versus an old one.

Everybody was acting immaturely this season, not just Lucas, and I guess that’s what I’ve been trying to say this whole time. Max, Mike, El, Dustin, they were all being pretty immature too, and so Lucas’s behavior never really stuck out to me. He got himself straightened out by the finale, so I guess I just kind of called it fair.

They got lazy with Lucas in S3, and I guess I’m guilty of doing the same in my analysis. They sidelined him, and that’s isn’t really in question. My issue with his portrayal this season was less in his conflict with Max, though, and more in the way that he was used primarily as comic relief and product placement for Coca-Cola. I do stand by my initial analysis, that ALL of the kids had a collective storyline of which Lucas was one element, and I think that it was more or less effective. I think the larger issue is that, because Lucas was sidelined and didn’t get much screentime, the arc wasn’t properly developed and it didn’t do him justice. Theoretically, I think that it’s sound, and I think that the Duffers were exploring a lot of interesting things in S3, but they just didn’t dig deeply enough to quite pull it off.

TL;DR You’re right, I think the Duffers bit off more than they could chew and didn’t give Lucas the screentime or development he deserved, but I feel the bigger issue is the way he was used for comedic relief and product placement.

EDIT: i literally didn’t see this third ask til AFTER i posted and you fuckin summarized everything i wrote in one sentence lmao

I’m not saying the boys didn’t act accordingly with the narrative they were trying to do, I’m saying they shoehorned it in instead or writing it so that it made sense with his character.

You hit the nail on the head, anon!

[stellarbisexual]

S2E5

LG DIG DUG LG!

LMAO Hopper’s VM “I’m probably doing something incredible RN” accurate tho

Winona Ryder is so tiny <3

omfg BYELER BLESS US ALL

“And the more he spreads, the more connected to him I feel.” 

omg mike “you’re like a super spy, spying on the shadowmonster.” babe.  babe. <3

(nowkiss)

OH MY FUCKING GOD

SECOND TIME I’M TEARING MY HEADPHONES OFF

MIKE’S HAND ON WILL’S HAND

MIKE’S HAND ON WILL’S HAND

I REPEAT

MIKE’S HAND. ON. WILL’S. HAND.

FAREWELL MY FRIENDS. FAREWELL.

Byeler as F U C K Y’ALL

SKIP INTRO BUTTON YOU MEAN NOTHING TO ME GTFO

jancy at that ho-tel mo-tel holiday innnnnnnnnn

LMAO that lady at the front desk: perfectly cast. 

jfc jonathan still soooooo into nancy. HE CALLED HER NANCE <3

omfg matching scars. THEY ARE SO. FLIPPING. CUTE. 

“only a month” hahahaha jonathan you are the KING of saying the WRONG SHIT

aoihdsfonasdfaklfmkadfmdalf MIKE IS ASLEEP ON WILL’S FLOOR my protective bisexual son

omg HOPPER AS DAMSEL IN DISTRESS into itttt

YES MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED, WE ARE AT LUCAS’ HOUSE BLESS

OMFG LUCAS ASKING HIS DAD FOR GIRL ADVICE BYE

“Even when she’s wrong?” CLASSIC FUCKING LUCAS THO

“To hang out with Dustin” worst liar ever

Seriously Lucas’ little sister is the breakout character of this season

Guys I hella ship Lucas/Max already

o fuck poor Dustin gonna have to cover up that cat’s death

uGH POOR DUSTIN’S MAMA LIKEEEE <3

dustin and his mom are like the comedic duo of the century “iLY “ILY” “I LOVE YOU” *mwah*

wow gaten matarazzo has BEAUTIFUL eyes!

“I’M SORRY... YOU ATE MY CAT.” LMFAO

omg eleven going to meet her mama!

well that’s one way to get in.

ELEVEN IS LIKE ALREADY SO PROTECTIVE OF HER MOM, I’M SLAIN

haha nancy pokin’ holes in that dude’s “boxes of pepe” map

omg lucas pulling all sorts of shit for max, my heart

“a safe place to what? be creepy?” bless you, max.

max you’re not gonna be so blase about lucas putting his trust in you after he tells you everything.

will is the tiniest bean <3

o shit bob’s here and he gon use his nerd powers to solve the mystery

“that’s the objective, find the x.” mike you effing nerd.

um why did it take them so long to figure out the drawings are a map of hawkins tho. i mean that’s the most logical thing, right?

(meanwhile i’m still highkey upset about dustin’s cat)

again with the vaginal imagery lol

ooh i have a feeling this is the ep where dustin brings steeb into the mix

lolllll erikaaaaaa #best

“she won’t get any better, will she?” :( :( :(

oh GOD el seeing her baby crib W H Y YOU DO DIS SHOW

MAYBE WILL CAN BRING EL’S MAMA OUT OF THE UPSIDE DOWN

HO SHIT THEY JUST GAVE MAD POLTERGEIST PROPS THERE WITH THE TV BLESS

omg mike’s parents are useless

“son of a bitch you’re really no help at all, you know that?” lmfaooooooo my thoughts exactly, dustin

AWW STEEB WITH HIS FLOWERS <33333333333

YAS THE NAILBAT SCENE IS COMING

I love that Steeb is like automatically on board too

omg save hopper guys pls i’m FULL OF ANXIETY

hahahahahahahah lucas been telling this story the whole time

LOLLLLLLLL getting all meta with max’s criticism of the story of what happened

EEP MAX HELD LUCAS’ HAND BWEEEE

if billy hurts lucas, i will seriously cut a bitch. like not even kidding.

(hahaha just realized the max/lucas ship name can be mucas, as in mucous hahaha)

“stop talking” lmao eleven

papa stealing baby eleven like it’s his job

ELEVEN’S AUNT HELPED THE BAD MEN WTF? whoaaaa eleven’s mama shooting cops like it ain’t no thing

BB ELEVEN <3

more gay imagery thx for the rainbowwwwww

omfg eleven’s poor fucking mother, i can’t. she’s just reliving this horrible trauma for the rest of her fucking life? a w f u l

“IN MY NOW MEMORIES” <3 my gay son

“super spy” <3 supportive bisexual bf mike wheeler

yas beat those vines joyce, also winona’s tiny feet <3

“are we in will’s map?” lmao YES JFC get on board samwise

my sexuality is joyce saving hopper 

“hey bob” “hey jim” lmfao

WTF WILL NOOOOOOO