#and then we would have a reason for her to be reintegrating people and for her not to be written off for no reason. lmao

[macbethz]

S2 of severance is like if after the waffle party instead of just having it be this surreal ritual and a smaller part of a larger world they spent 3 episodes going “but what did the waffle party all mean” and investigating the waffle party but never actually supplying any answers and ended each episode on milchik going “im about to explain the waffle party” before cutting to black. And then next episode he wouldn’t

[consultingfujoshi]

kinda fucked up how innie mark told ms casey that what happens to them matters because they're people not just parts of people and yet now he only sees himself as an extension of his outie, he sets out to find his outie's wife and says if they find her he will leave the severance floor with her and let his outie figure it out from there - he has no designs or expectations past doing this for his outie so he can be happy again. he's not worried about what happens to him after that. he knows his outie chose to become severed because he lost his wife, so if they're reunited why would he have any reason to ever return to lumon? innie mark is fully willing to die for his outie, and now he has, because he's reintergrated. we don't know how much of the innie consciousness and personality is retained after reintegration but outie mark was not thinking of his innie in that moment, if he would survive this or even be okay with it. he only wanted to able to see gemma again. innie mark learns that his whole existence is merely a manifestation of his outie's grief and once that dissipates, so too does he.

[tritoch]

the warrior of light as a game-breaking force of violence

there's a moment, relatively early in dawntrail, that establishes succinctly how out of place the warrior of light (as the savior of eorzea and main character of four successive final fantasy game plots) is in what is essentially the story of fresh new final fantasy protagonist wuk lamat. and it sets up quite nicely how the framework of fantasy video game conflict pulls the warrior of light forever towards violence as the expansion goes on.

spoilers through 7.0 follow

consider wuk lamat's kidnapping and rescue. bakool ja ja holds his blade to wuk lamat's throat, taunting you. his lackeys line up against your party in neat little ranks suspiciously reminiscent of a classic final fantasy encounter screen.

and it simply does not matter to the warrior of light. you stride right through their combat setup because you are beyond that by now. the warrior of light has absolutely no respect for the "we are about to do ATB combat" lineup. the camera even jumps the line for you in one continuous rotating shot, crossing the axis of action as though to emphasize through the disruption of visual convention how far outside the game's boundaries you are.

this is how far you are above the problems of dawntrail's first half. you cannot even be bound by the normal rules of cinematography and video game combat. everyone else here lined up for a good old-fashioned scrap and the warrior of light said haha nope actually. i'm going to stroll through here like a god of war astride this tiny battlefield. your henchmen cannot even raise a hand to me. i don't even have to engage in violence directly anymore. my mere presence is enough.

in fact, not only can bakool ja ja's henchmen not raise a hand to you, he's not even worthy of your direct intervention. he kidnaps wuk lamat and steals her keystones and frees valigarmanda and kidnaps hunmu rruk and none of it warrants the warrior of light so much as raising a finger. he's wuk lamat's recurring villain, that's not your problem. you're just here to take in the scenery.

zoraal ja spends his whole life aspiring to be thought of as his father's equal and a worthy successor to the dawnservant as the "resilient son." all it takes for gulool ja ja to acknowledge you as a warrior on his level is like a five minute sparring match. the acknowledgement from gulool ja ja that zoraal ja hungered for his whole life and would eventually go full cyborg supervillain to get via regicide is something the warrior of light receives casually in a throwaway line after their level 93 solo duty on the way to more important plot conversations.

it really seems for a second, in the first half of dawntrail, like you are strong enough and the problems simple enough for this to be a clean and easy adventure. bakool ja ja? power of friendship'd. mamook? successfully reintegrated, no worries about the crimes against humanity. rite of succession? handily won. nothing can stop you. even duty finder queue times have been conquered: you can do all your duties with trusts now.

all of which only makes it better when the second half has sphene ask you and wuk lamat directly: could your strength have been enough to save alexandria? could you have found a different way?

i know some people get very annoyed we don't intervene in the gulool ja ja fight. now personally i think if you see arthur and mordred squaring up it's rude to intervene, but beyond that, it simply wouldn't have mattered. by the time zoraal ja's forces arrived in tuliyollal, alexandria and tural were already on a collision course and doomed to conflict. your hands alone could never have averted this conflict. sphene was always bound to do what she did—and certainly a gulool ja ja without his reason would not be any more inclined to peace than wuk lamat and koana were.

there's a great little moment just before living memory where estinien, champion at reading the room, is like "okay so if thancred and i stay here that frees up you up, aibou, to do what you do best and save the world and have epic fights. woo!!!" and immediately afterwards you basically have to apologize to alisaie because part of the sort of unspoken premise of this whole trip in the first place was that you were, finally, not going to plunge into mortal peril to save the world. you were finally going to take it easy. you were finally done with that. and she has to sort of ruefully be like nah it's fine bro. i was trying to get you to take it easy and not do insane risky world-saving violence. but y'know these things (interdimensional invasions) happen.

by the time you reach the very last trial, all pretense that the warrior of light could have ever been beyond these problems has vanished. you were, very emphatically, not strong enough to hold onto all that was dear without sacrifice. gulool ja ja and otis and cahciua died. yyasulani was irreversibly changed, physically colonized and culturally decimated by another dimension. you systematically shut down each part of living memory, and all its friendly, charming, loving ghosts, with your own hands. with your own clicks.

not even the vaunted strength of the warrior of light is enough to overcome sphene's inexorable logic of conflict. and so, in the end, she plucks you out of the crowd and says, explicitly for reasons of your strength, that you are going to have to do a boss fight now. you are going to have to kill her and you are going to have to do it in a proper 8-on-1 trial, and she forces you to affirmatively state that you understand you're going to kill her.

did you think you were above it all? did you think you could get away from here with your weapon undrawn, with your hands clean? that for you and you alone the logic of conflict comes undone? wrong. wrong. wrong.

your strength cannot redeem you, says sphene. your friends cannot make these sacrifices for you. if you would play the hero then you must play the hero. no half-measures.

back to the duty finder with ye.

[inphront]

y’know s2e8 really brings you back around to the whole appeal of severance to some extent. throughout the show we’ve watched the procedure used to further corporate greed under the assumption that corporate greed was always the point, that it was created by a shitty ceo so that a shitty company could hide its shitty labor practices. and of course the ceo didn’t invent anything, and what do you know the real inventor had been working ten hour days in a factory since she was a child and watching everyone she knew get high off their asses huffing fumes in order to forget about their jobs. she saw her entire hometown go to shit because everybody was high off their asses huffing fumes in order to forget about their jobs. sure, she was groomed by this company on a level that permeates every aspect of her entire identity, so you could say she had a goal of corporate greed when she came up with it, but even if you take away all of the manipulation and psychological horror lumon was putting her through, the physical circumstances of her life were enough to warrant the invention of severance. she had a perfectly altruistic reason to come up with a non-addictive way of getting people to forget about their jobs.

and it *worked,* and she *saw* it work. she lived right next to mark scout and watched him get home every night and suffer through grief without ever turning to drugs or falling behind on bill payments or generally having that grief compounded by the nightmare that is working for lumon. even as lumon twisted the hell out of her design and sidelined her completely, her vision for people who could at least have a part of themselves, any part, untouched by that company did prevail on some level. notwithstanding the fact she was mark’s next door neighbor and thus lumon did follow him into his home, there was some element of him that was free from them in a way that no part of harmony cobel ever would or will be. his life on the outside is proof that maybe, in spite of everything, she did something good. drinking the kool-aid really hard about innies not being people would make that doubly believable, and what other choice does she have anyhow?

we knew from the second milchick said it that the line about the erotic fixation was total bullshit (another post is coming about THAT believe you me), but i figure she *did* have a level of obsession with him just by virtue of the fact he was a severed worker whose outie genuinely considered severance to have improved his life and who had no concept of what his innie was going through. she likely got some moral reprieve from that, too: look, he *trusts* her. he *likes* her. she’s not hurting him, not really, she’s not making his life a literal hell in the name of a corporate god who took away her childhood, her family, her genius, her potential, her morals, and everything else that ever mattered to her. she’s a sweet old lady who brings him cookies. because his outie did not know her, she got a small vicarious taste of what it’s like to have a life outside the company, and a way to placate herself about what she lost on her way to her management position.

also also ALSO i know that we saw on screen a lot of the factors that led to management getting stricter and harsher in s1. we saw the rebellion we saw the bullshit with petey reintegrating we saw several very good reasons for them to start going even harder than usual with the torturing. but it did also line up pretty perfectly with cobel having *helena eagan* under her employ. and i feel like she just maybe had a little bit of shit to vent onto the eagan name once she was given a situation where that would be allowed. just saying.

anyway this post is getting out of hand time to go immediately make another one about the erotic fixation thing because i am positively MICROWAVING this woman. harmony cobel i am biting your whole everything with the force of a hydraulic press

[ninthprime]

severance 2x01 thoughts (spoilers)

bit late but i’m just throwing a few things down just in case

three things about the new MDR employees that stuck out to me: 1. mark w. and gwendolyn used to work in the same office (but not dario!); 2. mark w. states his old team (presumably also gwendolyn’s) never made quota; and 3. every bizarre thing that dario says about how low-tech his old office was. i don’t know how important these characters are or which aspects of this are relevant but they all feel like pretty purposeful lore details.

i’m like 65% sure on the “helena pretending to be helly” theory- it’s the occam’s razor explanation- but i think if that’s the case, we’re going to know about it within a couple episodes. the tension will be us as viewers worrying about what helena will do with the innies and whether helly can be helped, not about whether it’s helly in the first place. the other 35% of me thinks that’s helly but something happened over the timeskip that we haven’t seen yet, most likely some sort of threat or manipulation of her by lumon (maybe something on the testing floor?). my absolute wildest theory would be that they’ve reintegrated her, but i feel like something that big wouldn’t happen offscreen…

i also think miss huang’s deal is going to be either way more simple or way more complicated than anybody is guessing. my kneejerk thought is that she went to the same school as cobel did, but there’s gotta be something to that “crossing guard” line. the other scene that stuck out to me was her and irving glaring at each other for an extended moment before they went into the break room- but i can’t tell if that’s foreshadowing a later reveal or setting up a future connection/rivalry?/etc. (it does kind of remind me of that “irving used to have milchick’s job” theory)

i think milchick’s being purposefully messed with or tested somehow. being given a child as his new subordinate/replacement, his computer not being updated, etc. he probably knows or is at least guessing at it, too. why the board is doing that, though, is beyond me. maybe they think he could’ve been collaborating with cobel?

i keep seeing people asking why the outies would go back to work after the s1 finale. i actually think the guys, at least, all have good reasons- mark needs to understand what “she’s alive” means, irving has his lumon investigation, and dylan has to support a family (which i’ve been guessing is the reason he took a severed job in the first place). helena’s the only one who may have been reluctant, but the decision may not have been hers alone depending on lumon internal politics. i suspect what actually happened is lumon didn’t want them all back due to risk of another rebellion and either fired or suspended dylan and irving- but they let mark come back because they need him for whatever they’re doing with gemma/ms. casey. that’s also why they let everyone come back when mark started causing trouble; they want mark there and working specifically.

the easiest way for the MDR team to figure out how long it’s actually been since the s1 finale would probably be to find and talk with burt’s old O&D co-workers, but i’m not sure they’re still on that floor? it looks like we might have multiple basement floors now? not sure about that but then where did mark w., gwendolyn and dario go. are they just fired/dead

at the end of this season i need to make a compilation of every absolutely batshit milchick line that tramell tillman delivers with 100% seriousness. give him an emmy. we’re underrating the bit after the “throuple” line where he just follows it up with “thankfully, she failed at this” while the camera stays on mark’s baffled face. peak comedy.

i would kill and die for irving

[strangesmallbard]

THEY GAVE US HALF A LIFE AND THOUGHT WE WOULDN’T FIGHT FOR IT! i’m thinking i’m feeling and reeling. if anyone makes this about a ship war i’m getting out the gunknife. jame wants to rob people of their memories and emotions and yet the only version of his daughter he apparently loves is the half-life his PR team condemned her to have. but he’s still seeing half of her and helly is whole and is also helena. jame systematically split apart gemma’s entire psyche like that hard-boiled egg, but she still took mark’s hand. she spent every day fighting to get free—not only physically, but focusing every day on what’s true: her name is gemma. her husband is named mark. she’s going to reclaim her life and find him again. her name is gemma.

and oh my god. irving is ready now. irving b wasn’t ready, but irving is. he’s ready. he couldn’t save burt, but he could save his good friend helly r. and he DIED. and dylan told his innie FUCK YOU but i get it man our wife is so cool and i love that you exist. i want you to his exist. you are half of me and i want you to be all of me. i want us to exist. and mark s wants to put his outtie in a blender for the same reason that mark scout wants to put mark s in a blender. they’re each fighting for half a life when they’re each a whole life and it’s the same life. mark scout would also throw it all away to hold gemma’s hand just one more time as they run through hell. it’s the same life!!!!!! do you SEE.

and MILCHICK! IT’S JUST WORK! lumon stole four childhoods and now the life is bursting out of their hard shells. kind of like all that blood from drummond’s neck! it’s that fucking vital! everyone’s gotta reintegrate now i’m busting out the C&M trombones for this one. i am literally just saying words recreationally here what the fuck. and emile the goat even got to live!!!!!!! BECAUSE SOMEONE FOUGHT FOR him. to live a full life, instead of the half life kier demanded of him.

anyway that was a pretty good episode

[hellyrmybeloved]

My theory about a potential Helena pregnancy subplot in Severance S2, why I don’t think she would have planned it, and what it could mean for the characters:

Okay so a lot of people are theorising that Helena could be pregnant after the tent scene in S2E4 and that her entire reason for going down to the severed floor was to get pregnant because she’s an only child and single and she’ll be expected to produce the next Eagan heir.

With the theme of pregnancy throughout the show and all of the baby imagery in the title sequence I think she could be pregnant but I feel like if she is it wasn’t intentional. Here’s why:

It’s obviously entirely possible for somebody to get pregnant after having sex just once but the chances of it happening is pretty small (from what I could find online it appears to be about a 25% chance each month if you’re having REGULAR unprotected sex around the time of ovulation - thank you Huggies website - so it’s even lower if it happens just once). Lumon and the Eagans are meticulous - there’s no way they would send her off to sleep with somebody in the woods just once and cross their fingers she would end up pregnant (it would also just kind of be lazy writing/way too convenient)- they would have a whole ass operation going so it would happen regularly until she conceives.

I think they sent Helena down instead of Helly not because she wanted a baby but just because they couldn’t trust Helly R - they knew she’d tell MDR the truth and it could spoil everything. She already hated herself and tried to end her life before she knew she was an Eagan and it would only triple that hatred now she knows who she really is. On top of that MDR had been working fine before she joined, then within a couple of weeks of her arrival, the team is going rogue trying to do the OTC? She was too dangerous to let back down there - they knew Mark would demand Helly back but Helly is feisty and will not budge from her goals of fucking shit up.

So Helena was to go down to the severed floor instead and impersonate Helly (which would also allow her to spy on them and what they’re up to while still tricking them into thinking they had more freedom - remember one of the first things she does is point out the missing cameras). But then she found out about Mark and Helly with the security footage and Helena - who has been raised in a cult-like corporate hellscape, who was manipulated and moulded from birth to be the perfect future heir and was never allowed to be herself - was genuinely jealous/intrigued because this version of her who she doesn’t even see as a real person, who just existed for a publicity stunt, has built more genuine relationships in just a few short weeks than Helena has in 30 years. She went down as a mole and genuinely came out preferring who she was down there. I think she was genuine when she told mark in the tent that she didn’t like who she was on the outside - it was a rare moment of her letting the act down he just didn’t know it.

So how does this link back to pregnancy and babies? Well as mentioned, the title sequence is full of babies and baby imagery. We see a baby Kier emerging from the snow at Mark’s feet at the end of the title sequence (emerging from the snow where it was maybe conceived?) Baby Kier - a baby Eagan. While I don’t think it was intentional on Helena’s part, I think she could end up pregnant and it could be a massive turning point for both Helly and Helena.

We know Mark and Helena meet up again outside (the diner scene in the trailer). Now he’s reintegrated he knows who she is both inside and out. So their outies (or outie Helena and reintegrated Mark I guess) must end up having some kind of character arc. I’m wondering if he’ll confront her about why she pretended to be Helly and ends up getting dragged into the whole situation now he knows a child is on the line. Half of him still wants Gemma (who I think it truly dead but that’s a matter for another time) but the other half of him genuinely wants Helly and - because of the way reintegration messes with your time perception as Petey explained back in S1) they are equally as strong feelings.

So for the even more out-there, very unlikely way I could potentially see this going: I’m wondering if it’s possible Helena deciding she doesn’t want her child to be exposed to the same cult-ish, toxic upbringing she experienced - wanting her child to be given a good life, the chance to be their own person and not just a pawn for a corporate entity - and so she chooses to help the innies out and expose the company in a parallel to how Helly R did at the end of S1 - this time it really is Helena speaking. In a way (although she was still a terrible person and did some really awful things) she finally does something good and proves she isn’t just a one-note evil stereotype. Then I could see her potentially deciding to either reintegrate (I think less likely) or permanently sever herself (more likely) because she prefers the person she is when severed than in the real world - essentially killing Helena Eagan and the Eagan lineage for good and instead giving the innie - who she didn’t even see as a real person at first - a life she could never have.

[jesterkoops]

Well it looks like I am back with a new obsession!

I would like to introduce my poor followers, who started following me for Jaime/Brienne content and then got dragged against their will through Better Call Saul-induced anxiety to...

HELLY/HELENA: my new problematic fave.

(Obviously, spoilers for Severance 2x04 below - Gods help me for getting into such a mindfuck of a show).

I feel the reveal that it was Helena on the severed floor all along this season was such a big deal that people are grasping to attribute way more nefarious and convoluted reasons for her to be there than there actually probably were. I think the reason is actually quite simple: the whole point of the team going back was to give Mark what he wants so he finishes Cold Harbor, but Helly being aware of who she was on the outside would have been too much of a liability. So of course the only option was for Helena to go there as herself and be in control of the situation. And once she was given the opportunity to "play" Helly, she took a chance to get a taste of that life she glimpsed in that security footage. Under the guise of "pretending" she might have given in to desires and thoughts she could not normally voice, such as making fun of the Kier lore or even how she might feel about herself (I feel like there was literally no reason at all for her to tell Mark she didn't like who she was on the outside at that point). She might have started to play with this idea of who she could be if she didn't have her family baggage to carry around. I think this is more consistent with what's been said in interviews/post-ep commentary than just "Helena was acting and manipulating" (and more interesting too; also many who think she was watching the video over and over just to imitate Helly seem to forget she was watching the video long BEFORE it was decided she would have to go back on the floor).

To me what's more complicated is understanding how the different pieces of what was going on on that floor while Helena was there fit together. Is Lumon aware that Helena was trying to help Mark find his wife and that was part of the plan, or was this something she kept to herself? Was she genuinely helping or hindering? Does she know Ms Casey is not there anymore and that's why it doesn't matter if she goes along with it or not? We actually know very little of who Helena truly is on the outside and her motivations (and which ones are actually true), because we have only witnessed her in the presence of other people towards whom she has to keep up the Eagan persona (Cobel, Milchick, Natalie, her father). So just knowing it was her on that floor actually doesn't solve as many questions as one might think.

And this is when it gets so messy, because it could go in so many directions from here on out. Now that the game is up, what's going to happen to Helly? On the one hand, she was allegedly necessary for Mark to finish Cold Harbor. On the other hand, now they all know who she is, and Irving is gone, so that is the end of the team as we know it. This will probably impact Cold Harbor (as will a reintegrated Mark, most likely). They switched off Glasgow to save Helena when Irving was drowning her, but now that that threat to her life is gone, what would be the motive to keep Helly on the floor? I think this could go one of two ways depending on whether Helena is on a redemption arc or not.

If she's not, it's kind of inevitable that Mark will want to save Helly. But saving Helly is essentially the opposite of saving Gemma: Gemma has to get out*** (more on Gemma below), but Helly has to stay in to exist. But Lumon of course has plenty of power to ensure Helly never goes on the severed floor again. Mark could blackmail them with the threat not to finish Cold Harbor if Helly isn't with him, but then he'd be running against time because how long could he reasonably drag that out for? Could he somehow force a reintegration on Helena to get Helly out of Lumon and "save her"? Or use some other technology to have her continue to be severed outside Lumon, like a reverse Glasgow (or like the senator's wife seemed to be?).

And what would a reintegrated Helena/Helly look like? Given how much Helly HATES Helena and will do so even more now, would those conflicting feelings within the same person implode her? Or would it be a trigger for a redemption arc? I think an important thing to note is that while Helena is aware of who she/Helly is inside Lumon and the choices she makes in that context, this is very much the awareness of an external observer. She has no idea what Helly actually FEELS. Similarly, Helly has even less of a clue about Helena's outside life since she only saw two videos of her and embodied her for half an hour or so and probably made up a whole list of assumptions about her as a consequence of that context (just like we did). So if the two merged, would Helena integrate Helly's feelings and, at the same time, would Helly get more empathy for Helena's reasons for doing what she did?

And this is why I lean more towards a redemption arc for Helena, besides the fact that Helly = good/Helena = bad seems simplistic and would give no opportunity for the character(s) to grow and develop. I think either Helena gets more and more drawn towards Helly's life because that becomes preferable to her than her life as Helena, and therefore might insist to have Helly on the floor, or a reintegration at some point will set her on that path. I think the ultimate message is not that these are completely and radically different people, but just people shaped differently based on their experiences and memories or lack thereof. And once you integrate innies memories with outies memories, you do not just give the outies knowledge of the inside or viceversa (which is more what happens with the OTC), but you literally create a new person out of combining their innies feelings and experiences with those of their outies.

I also have to admit that there are convincing hints that this might be going down the route of Helena/Helly now being pregnant with Mark's baby and how that might mess up the whole situation on so many levels. I don't know how to feel about it, because if, on one hand, it's in keeping with some of the themes we've seen so far, I also find this obsession with women as unwilling incubators in scifi thrillers to be frankly tiresome and cringe so I want to say "thanks, but no thanks".

---

***Gemma: perhaps unpopular opinion (?), but I don't think we are supposed to get invested in her relationship with Mark or in her as a character? Unless that changes in future episodes, it seems to me like this is essentially just a plot device. A crucial one, that underpins a lot of character motivation, but a plot device nonetheless. She doesn't really have a personality or compelling background other than everyone telling us how perfect she was (which is already a sign of a character with nowhere to go). I've read some interesting and convincing interpretations about the whole Orpheus/Eurydice parallels that could foreshadow where this is going, and there's also that "there will be no honeymoon ending for you, Mark" line from Cobel which makes me feel like Gemma is doomed no matter what and I doubt we will see more of her as a properly fleshed out character? Maybe I'm wrong though and her time is yet to come.

[arachnopoda]

Thoughts on the Season 2 Severance Finale (specifically Mark + Helly):

Spoiler free thoughts:

WHAT A LONG TIME COMING GUYS- THE FINALE IS FINALLY HERE AND WE ARE EATING WELL.

I do have to say that first off, I REALLY enjoyed the finale! Personally I think that season 1's was stronger but that might just be the high stakes and cliffhanger it led up to, and plus having been accustomed to how Severance builds tension it's easy to familiarise with the way they would finish with a bang (so I can understand if people (like me) prefer season 1's ending but I don't think it worsened in quality or substance)

THAT BEING SAID HOWEVER- I think it was a perfect ending. I think that even if they did not renew for season 3 (which they have THANK GOD), this was a perfect way to end the show. Those last few minutes in particular resonates so bittersweetly with the entire message of what Severance was trying to voice- which was always deeply rooted in control, freedom, and most of all: choice.

Okay, I do want to delve into the Mark and Helly parts of the finale, so MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD for this next part:

For how much hate I've seen online circulating about innie Mark and Helly running back into hell, I think this shouldn't have been a surprise, or even a point of conflict. It has always been the general knowledge that 'Love transcends Severance', but we have to understand that the aim of Severance as a show is also to demonstrate how our environment shape us as people, and how they shape our relationships by an extension. We have seen the love Mark has for Helly- to the point it made him blind to Helena. We've also seen that reciprocated by Helly, how she was willing to give herself up to danger, just so Mark could live happily with his wife- and by extent, her life to be ended forever by an Eagan. In the end, they are new minds in love, they experience the world fresh- willing to run into a hellscape just to spend 10 more minutes together. Because they cannot understand the gravity of days, months, or even years. And it would be silly for them to think that they'd have another hour together. So all they want is a minute.

I also think that people are speculating that it was in fact, Helena in the end apart from Helly. I don't think that first off, Jame Eagan would risk Helena going back in there (he does hate his daughter- so would he really expect her to fix the situation?), and second- I don't think Helena would have truly acted in that way. She is cold, and calculated. If she had ulterior plans for Mark, I do not think this wouldn't take this direction to execute it. "But the look she gave to Gemma was cold!" In my opinion, I think that it wasn't a look of disgust towards Gemma, or even hatred towards HER. I think it was the idea that Gemma represented Mark's entire life. She was the reason Mark was brought into the world, and also will be the reason for him to be taken out of it- to live a life he doesn't want to live. Say he did reintegrate, it would be under outside Mark's terms. And Helly knew that. She also knew that was exactly the case for Helena- but that Helena would not even give a second thought towards her. SO when she looked back at the door she tried to run away through in the very first episode, she finds spite in it. She finds that truly, there are no rights for them out there, even when thinking about Gemma- who will quite possibly never face changing into Ms. Casey again, ultimately ending her life.

So yes, the ending made sense to me. It represented Mark and Helly gaining what little freedom they have in a situation they never chose to be a part of in the first place. That even the illusion of freedom being that final door with Gemma crying for Mark to return to- it wasn't going to be their freedom. That instead, the freedom they could hold onto, was to frolic right into the depths of hell.

Anyways yeah I thought the finale was amazing- and I will defend innie Mark's actions (and Helly because she is my girl) to the end of time

[thecoolerliauditore]

opinions on pearlscar?

first off an apology because being disappointed back to back by two series I was very excited for and following in real time did something very strange to me interest-wise and i've fallen back into being into league and my language has started reflecting that with league terms being reintegrated back into my vocabulary.

so anyway in league (and im sure a lot of other games but ive mostly heard it w/ league) "sleeper OP" means a character who is overpowered but not many people are aware OR people are aware but forget. In other words it's being "slept on" hence sleeper OP.

pearlscar is the sleeper OP ship of the life series. people either 1. are aware that it is peak (even people who don't necessarily ship them ive noticed tend to lean towards "can see it") but don't focus on it as a ship for one reason or another or 2. are unaware of it because people don't make enough noise.

for me personally i adore any ship that involves characters with parallels and well. vaguely gestures towards LL Scar and DL Pearl and their respective partnerships with Grian and Scott. Scar encouraging Pearl's destructive tendencies in DL by recommending powdered snow, although cruel, read to me as a sign of sympathy that no one else really gave Pearl that season. They are very similar people at the end of the day (the villain to their enemies, a loose canon to their "allies" and deeply lonely with a yearning for friendship above all else).

And because they are similar people, they can very easily slot into what eachother need that they're constantly looking for elsewhere with Grian and Scott. Or at least, I think they would.

they also just? idk they make sense in my head as an endgame ship, not that those will ever really exist (except for jizzie ig lmao). I've held this thought forever but it peaked during the SL finale -- probably the biggest showcase of why I love them together so much -- although part of me didn't really fully subscribe to it just cus with gempearl also being a big heavy hitter to my frontal lobe that season it made it feel alot like idk. one of those old anime that was yuri the whole way through but then the mc leaves her gf to die and marries a man and it's all melancholic and upsetting but bittersweet. here have this post in my drafts I made at the time that came out that I was too afraid to post lmao

although ig with WL being as disappointing as it was to me that I've sort of decanonized it in my personal headspace they are as endgame as it gets lol

all that aside just. yeah. two lonely goofy people who find happiness in eachother. and get to be goofy and fun together. thumbs up. also that elven kiss clip was really cute but we all know this

[roughhewnends]

I'm not mad at iMark and here's why

I posted this on Reddit too (but I like it here better) Big spoilers for 2.10 below

For me, it hinges on the scene where Mark & Mark talk. It begins with an apology; we as the audience have come to believe and know that the innies are people with thoughts and feelings and agency and this apology suggests that oMark has also come along on this journey with us.

I think it's all fine, even with some arguing until oMark calls Helly "Helena Eagan." (Not to mention Heleny? Please). It read as disdainful, almost mocking of iMark's affection for her, which is definitely understandable if you only think of her as Helena Eagan. The thing is, she's not (like she IS but she's not - we know Helly herself is still battling back and forth with this). This slip reveals that oMark still doesn't see Helly as her own person, so why would he see iMark as his own?

oDylan made more growth to see his innie as a person in his however many minutes on screen than oMark really has this whole time! And oMark let iMark know that. iMark has NO reason to trust his outie or want to do him a favor.

He got Gemma out, or at least to the staircase, which is still something. Do I wish he was a little kinder to her? Absolutely. He could've said "Run. He'll find you."

But I totally get it. Why would he want to turn back into his outie so he can go be happy with Gemma while iMark ceases to exist? Nothing oMark said suggested he would make any effort other than kind of hoping reintegration keeps happening.

It wasn't just about Helly over Gemma. It was about continuing his existence for as long as possible. Gemma didn't deserve this, but oMark? He might have.

[egot1stical]

rambling about the state of the innies rn

i’m p sure they’re gonna have a scene explaining a very shallow version of why helena was on the severed floor and. i have a feeling they’re gonna like… blame it on helly?

i’m imagining they’ll guilt helly for helena being there because of her suicide attempt and then subsequently blame her for irving’s death* (*firing, but i’m calling it death because that’s what it is.)

we know from the trailers that helly sees irving’s art of the severed floor and there seems to be a written note on the back of it. possibly last words or a guide so the team can continue where irving left off?

it’s just gonna be so bad. like for everyone. i’m assuming it’s gonna go like

helly: forced to take accountability for the actions of helena. suicide attempt and self destructive behaviour is pegged as the cause of helena just having to be there. i assume she’ll actually learn about miss casey next ep. maybe she’ll feel conflicted about the kiss? probably really not happy about helena and mark. (against helena the most. obviously) maybe upset that mark couldn’t tell the difference between her and helena and wonders what that means for her

dylan: feels suuuuuper guilty for not being on irv’s side more and being sidelined by his visitation. probably feels upset at mark for the same reason— he dismissed irving and was especially mean to him this ep when he was right cuz he was blinded by his stupid crush. if anyone wonders if helly coming back is a lie and it’s still helena, it’ll be dylan. possibly still distrustful leans more on visitation suite for comfort and support

mark:

okay one,

okay so one, grappling with the fact that he thought he was getting close and moving forward with helly but it was actually helena! the comfort, the help, the small talk, the sex was all under false pretences and he doesn’t really know why helena would do any of that, he doesn’t really have context. helena just replaced the person he was closest to here wordlessly for some reason. AND SHE’S ALSO AN EAGAN!

two, he’s learning that he doesn’t actually care about his outie as much as he assumed he did…? he kind of just did the miss casey stuff out of reflex. it’s out of a “well, we’re the same guy, so…” but he has no connection to her, and also if his outie finds his wife he might not… come… back. which is the end for mark s (in normal circumstances)

three, grappling with the fact they took irving out back and shot him and it’s more than partially his fault! ties into helena using him! probably feels good as fuck for the innie!

and four, REINTEGRATION HAS STARTED BAYBEEE AND HE HAS NOOOOO IDEA! the next time we see him will be a day passing, minimum, could even be a few days. that’s enough time for that shit to progress and we’ve already had a small glitch what seems to be the day after the procedure was done. all of this shit — learning he really likes helly, doesn’t really care about gemma, helena using him, the loss of irving — has lined up with this guy about to kind of… lose his own independence? it’s not that he’s gonna die, in fact petey seemed to line up a little more with his innie self anyway, but it’s gonna be an attempted fusion of two people that have only just now realised that they’re separate. and innie mark wants to be more separate

there’s so much building up and boy is it gonna be ugly and boy can I not wait

[gemmasdeadwife]

Now when I say this I’m not saying that Mark and Helly/na can’t end up together, or that she is irredeemable. Personally I think reintegration can heal her. And once she and Mark are reintegrated I think it’s possible that it could work out for them, or for Mark and Gemma, or some other outcome. Maybe none of these relationships remain romantic in nature. Or maybe as they’re reintegrating everyone needs to take a step back from the romantic aspects while they’re figuring out who they are and prioritizing their platonic love for each other, and fighting for each other’s freedom, and then further down the line the possibility can be reopened (this would be my preference).

BUT I have to say it’s driving me crazy how many people are glossing over Helena’s SA of Mark in Woe’s Hollow. I’ve been seeing the argument that it can’t be, because they are still the same person, and Mark consented to sex with Helly. This logic doesn’t hold for me. If I have an STD and I sleep with you without telling you, that’s rape by deception. If I’ve been cheating on you with your sister for weeks and I sleep with you without telling you, that’s rape by deception. If I tell you I love you and I want to make a lifetime commitment to you because you’ve said you’re saving yourself for marriage, but I fully intend to abandon you immediately after, that’s rape by deception. By their reasoning, these things wouldn’t be rape because the person you agreed to do it with is the same.

In my opinion, if you withhold information that you can reasonably expect might change their decision to consent to sex, that’s rape. The sexual ethics of severance are obviously really complicated and tricky, to the point that there’s so many diverging viewpoints in the fandom, and that’s part of why I’m not interested in fully condemning Helena for this. But I think even if you don’t share my view that it was rape, we can at least agree it was a serious violation. I’m not comfortable ignoring that and laughing about it!

[fights4users]

The quorra problem | Programs, isos and the real world

Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with Quorra as a character! It’s more of a story element critique if anything, please read and don’t jump on me for the title. Quorra is adorable and I enjoy legacy- even if it doesn’t look like it from how I keep tearing it apart.

It’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation. On one hand you can’t leave her inside the grid when Flynn decides to literally go nuclear but you can’t leave her in the real world either. They have to because they wanted Flynn’s self sacrificing ending or wrote themselves into a corner (this isn’t about reintegration but I will still complain) and this was there way out. But they didn’t consider the implications of it at all.

Cosmic horror-

I’ve made several posts about it and still want to write something with this idea but to a program— the real world wouldn’t be so miraculous like how we see theirs. The minute you’re outside you’re Imediately bombarded with sensory overload and just too much information to process. The grid, which is much more human in its design than the ENCOM system, is still infinitely more minimalist than our world. One of the best scenes is Clu and his team raiding the hideout and not knowing what a single thing is and freaking out, she seems too well adjusted for someone who’s spent a few hours max here— look I know it’s the end of a movie and they can’t do that whole arc, but I digress.

Also don’t get me started on the rumored Ares plot and how they totally forgot quorra is already a program(technically iso) in our world- also it’s not really a “tron” movie plot— where’s the allegory?! The metaphor?! The symbolism?!

Another thing is that…Sam can’t tell anyone about her. Maybe Alan but her mere existence in our world is brain shattering. Trying to explain a advanced humanoid being that’s not here to harm us and is totally cool guys almost never goes well. It also leaves people a LOT to grapple with…like everything we know being forever altered.

This whole situation should be terrifying from both perspectives, however I love the theory that the only reason she was able to get out into the real world at all was because of Flynn’s data stored in the beam. That’s a great thought that almost makes me like her being in the real world just from how much impact that is.

Infectious-

What happens now? She can’t be revealed to the world (yet) and to put her back in the remains of the grid would be cruel. Putting her in another system would be wildly irresponsible because- do we even know what ISOs do? Across all media its “they’re special” but absolutely squat on their actual function or what they’re capable of. We see they have some kind of digital dna that’s literally a miraculous occurrence but that’s about it. Did Flynn even know? Are they just there- existing but not effecting/having a real world computer impact? Or worse - what if clu was right and they did contribute to the crumbling state of the grid? (I think it was a combination of his own fear and scapegoating—I’m just tossing the idea out there).

Sam transferring her over to another system without knowing what she does or how she could effect it would be disastrous. Am I saying she’s dangerous or would have any intent to harm? No not at all that’s now who she is, but it’s sort of a “releasing a domestic cat into the woods a state over” you don’t do that.

Does she get a regular job now, does Sam hire her at ENCOM? She’d likely be some sort of computer smart…in that she come from one. Or does he like —- set her up at a McDonald’s? How’s she get energy does she get plugged in- being in the real world isn’t going to magically give her a stomach. Sam just takes her to a power grid and she causes SoCal to blackout lmao.

Open portal-

I’m aware most of this post is just me overthinking the implications of everything they didn’t intend us to think to hard about. It’s supposed to be “yippee they’re safe” and I’m worried about digital ecosystems and what the human brain can handle. I think my problem mainly strives from this trope where the character brings home their friend from the other world/ is the reverse situation and no one bats an eye at all. It’s because they want the characters to still be friends no matter how many rules it breaks or sense it makes. It happens most commonly in cartoons. (There’s at least 3 in recent memory)

I’m not saying I want quorra to have been caught in the blast but that there’s a way they could’ve kept communication without world breaking. Open portal situation where he goes back to visit, he chats with her on the screen, both stay in their own worlds its sad but logical etc (I’m not writing a new ending but you get the point).

I guess it annoys me so much because it’s left so open ended, ride off into the sunrise while ignoring the implications™️. “I guess, We’re going to change the world” ok how 🧍‍♂️. The movie did not nearly give me enough information about ISO’s to see what changes they exactly do besides taking over ENCOM. “They[Iso’s] changed everything” ok how🧍‍♂️. Yeah it’s immaculate conception but what do they do I am shaking your shoulders Disney what do they do!

It’s not quorra I’m mad about or even the concept of ISO’s but it’s how the writing just falls short in these HUGE areas that require a lot of lore and information to be given that they just do not. And consistently don’t In the other media forms like betrayal (I haven’t seen uprising maybe they explain something). If you’re going to have beings that shatter your ideas of reality you sort of have to explain that!

[ninthprime]

severance 2x02 thoughts (spoilers)

you all seemed to enjoy my thoughts last time. so. let’s keep doing this

not only did i accurately predict most of this episode in my last post (they let the others back because they need mark, dylan is back because he needs to support his family, etc) but i also used the phrase “occam’s razor” and devon uses the exact same term this episode. feeling like a real severance understander over here

fellow fans of the “outie irving used to have milchick’s job” theory- do we think his scene with milchick this episode disproves it? there’s nothing specific about the scene that would completely throw it away, but i doubt they’d fire irving so easily if they knew he had unsevered knowledge of the severed floor. maybe he was severed when he had the position, and they had to re-sever him/implant a new chip/whatever that would entail? and whatever went wrong there led to managers like milchick and cobel being required to be unsevered? we pretty much know that irving worked at lumon before being a severed member of MDR (he has an early ID number but has only been in MDR for three years), so it’s a matter of connecting the dots. maybe the wrongful assumption we’re making is that he’s painting the testing floor elevator from his own memories, rather than, say, a description from someone else (reintegrated petey?).

i agree with many that there’s a reason we didn’t see the immediate aftermath of the season 1 finale for irving and burt, but i’m not sure if it’s the reason a lot of people are predicting (that they know each other outside of being severed). i feel like it may be something stranger and more lore-heavy. kind of wondering if burt is reintegrated in some way or otherwise has knowledge of irving that irving wouldn’t know about. one of my questions about season 1 that i’ve never really seen anyone else ask is “why does optics & design need to be severed?” with MDR we now know it’s because their work contributes to some sort of strange experiment with testing floor subjects (ie. miss casey), which lumon would want to keep secret, but we don’t know why O&D’s work is also hidden. my inclination is that burt knows more than he’s saying.

that said if we’re supposed to get an old gay spies vibe from outie irving/burt then i think it should have the tone of chris fleming’s description of the film heat

similarly, i think they’re keeping gretchen hidden from us not because she’s someone we already know but to make us question things when dylan gets to go to that “visitation suite.” that way they can have a big reveal that the “wife” dylan gets to meet there is fake or, maybe even more interesting, that she’s in fact his wife with no tricks involved.

and one last thing that this episode purposefully keeps from us: miss huang being assigned to milchick’s old position! that’s hiding something.

i don’t think it’s important or anything but i would love to have elaboration on the lumon chain of command and on helena and milchick’s relationship. she’s his boss but he’s also the boss of her severed self? he has to answer to her outside of the severed floor but down there he can break room torment her as needed for the sake of lumon? fucking wild. really shows how much the lumon higher-ups have driven any idea that the innies are people out of their minds- milchick can do it with the heir to the company.

thought about why i’m generally enjoying mark/helly (and gemma/mark/helly) when it’s usually not what i’d be into and this episode led me to realize it’s because of how completely fucked up it could get. yeah, let’s get the outies in here, let’s make this even more potentially cursed. we ask if love can transcend severance. if that’s true, is it always a good thing? is it the way things should be? i’m excited for the answers to feel like a hammer blow.

one thing i haven’t seen people mention about the confirmation that lumon needs mark for The Miss Casey Experiment aka Cold Harbor is that it implicitly gives a time limit for this season. if mark finishes the cold harbor file and the experiment is a success, can they just fire him and the rest of the team at that point? would they feel the need to silence any of them further as outies? hell, devon tells milchick she spoke to innie mark in this episode- does that put devon and her family under threat? i imagine this may end up being the climax of the season, along with revealing whatever cold harbor is.

my loudest reaction while watching this one was a barking laugh at the first image of milchick with the pineapple on mark’s porch. incredible

“i ate your shitty fucking cookies” is an all-time adam scott line read. and it’s good to once again be reminded why david lynch’s nickname for patricia arquette was “solid gold”

[theywhosawthedeep]

Severance thoughts below - ambivalent, leaning towards negative.

This show is strongest when it's anti-work. Those are the real highlights of all the seasons, the reason the "overtime contingency" hit so well in S1 and why there are moments in S2, like with Mark's "work's just work, isn't it?" and Irv's "she's an Eagan!"* that also hit very well.

It also really works when examining office dynamics. That's where you get all the good stuff: Dylan talking Irv out of suicide but not believing him about Helena until it's too late, Dylan and Helly kind of being assholes to each other, Helly and Irv having a sweet (not cruel) friendship, and so on.

This is also why I thoroughly enjoyed the Helena-as-Helly plotline. Of course it's an abuse of power; that's what people with power do. Helena Eagan and Mark (S./Scout) have the most compelling relationship on the screen because their relationship is, by nature, a commentary on how work warps you and your relationships, how insidious and deeply violating work environments can be, and how utterly powerless you are in such environments. Mark, either versions of him, does not even have the privilege of knowing who he's working with.

This is excellent, and this is why I was almost fully on board until Episode 5. The almost corporate espionage type vibe, accentuated with whatever the hell was going on with Irving, was front and center. Fantastic stuff, although the reintegration was already dragging and the use of Reghabi as a mad-scientist-jack-in-a-box rage-inducing.

And then, from Episode 5 onward, we start focusing on the romance. Which ... look, objectively, of course "life" is an important part of the "work-life balance" equation they're explaining here, obviously there needs to be something there. But both the romances are ... not the most compelling. I'm not saying there's something wrong with them, they're both cute couples! That's ... about it. I go "aw" when I see them, but nothing much else. (Also, there's nothing very new about a couple struggling with infertility or a couple that met at an office.)

Mark's grief is the most compelling thing about the Mark-Gemma relationship, and Helly herself is the most compelling thing about the Mark-Helly relationship.

The first is a writing issue: Episode 7 (to me) felt like a packed, forced attempt for us to really care about Gemma, who we know very little about. It's not even a writing issue; it's an editing issue. You can see why the couple works, but trickle truthing it by spreading it across multiple episodes would have been so much more compelling than this one-shot whammy. As soon as the reintegration started (I recall something a chip being flooded, did that do anything?), the grief should have started pouring in, with Mark S. remembering meeting Gemma while at work; meanwhile, the camera cuts to the floor below, where she, in between being splintered into various innies, is remembering her infertility struggles while held hostage. Mark S. and Mark both talk about their trauma in the finale, but the writers should have forced the grief to move into the work environment, made it unavoidable.

It would also have made Mark S.'s "choice" much more wrenching. This brings me to my second point.

The second point is a character issue. Helly is barely present in this season. It's incredibly frustrating. Having her sidelined is detrimental because, as with Mark and Gemma, you can see why the couple works: Helly is such a vital character and, easily, the star of S1. I loved the scene where she withdraws to take off her shoes after finding out about Helena and Mark. I wanted more of that fallout, not her rallying speech in the finale. (I'll be honest, that was almost cringe-worthy.) She doesn't get to do much in this season (it's just all Mark, all the time). I mean, her father shows up, but I cannot express just how unimportant Jame Eagan is in the grand scheme of things.

Thinking it over, the show would have been much improved if they somehow engineered Helly and Helena to be in the birthing cabin instead, screaming at each other, both of them powerless and powerfully opinionated in very different ways. Ideally with Harmony Cobel there, because that corporate dynamic is wonderful, especially now that we know that Harmony is the real genius behind the procedure. (I retrospectively do adore that scene with Helena and Harmony even more: "dedication and industry" indeed!) Something something something grandmother-mother-daughter relationships (cf. that incredible post about Helena and Helly having a mother-daughter relationship).

The show also did a very strange disservice to both Harmony and Gemma by having those episodes specifically be standalone rather than written into multiple episodes to parallel the other characters. It's interesting, because you'd think the focused attention would be better for female characters, but the decision (to me) seems to have backfired: because their episodes are stand alone, the characters stand further apart from the show instead of closer to it.

I wonder what a combined Cobel and Gemma episode would have looked like. That might have been interesting, two women mourning two different types of creation, both robbed.

Enough of what-ifs. The pacing after Episode 4 is fucking terrible, and the finale was not improved. The innie team is more often apart than together, barely there in the finale, which dragged: too much time on goats and bands, not enough on the horrors of labour.** What new commentary does the finale have on work and how we survive it? I have no idea, and that's disappointing.***

* Eagan here being another word for power; Irving literally asks Helena: "Who would have the power to send their outie to the severed floor?" John Turturro absolutely killed it in Episode 4, which makes his being packed off all the more painful.

** I mean labour here in both the work sense and the childbirth sense.

***I did like the painting of Mark at the computer, though.