#and then it was silver who betrayed them both. flint was her true ally and silver fucking killed him and killed the war

[goneatlas]

a scene from black sails suddenly popped into my head tonight and in doing so dealt me 500 psychic damage

anyway the thing is. isn't it insane that in black sails the relationship between flint and the hamiltons were literally canon. the polyamory wasn't subtext it was legit The Text.

and isn't it buckwild that when silver was never found after their ship was destroyed in XXIX madi was standing on the beach waiting for him to be found and flint joined her in waiting and said to madi (to madi, who was shown to have a romantic relationship with silver) "i know that you and he had been working closely together of late, become friends even" and then he followed that up with "i don't know what I'm trying to say. perhaps just that... he is my friend, too" like call me unhinged but is the subtext not screaming something at you here??

and not to mention. when madi reunited with silver and they were kissing and flint hung back to let them have a moment and he looked at them like

(photos don't do it justice i need a gif for this and there probably are existing gifs for it but i can't. find them!!!!)

if i was a smarter man i'd be doing essay analyses of the parallels between flint/thomas/miranda and flint/silver/madi but alas

[zalrb]

Are there any dynamics in tv or movies you think have a spiritual connection & not romantic?

It’s funny because I thought that was Reylo in TLJ:

And in my opinion, I don’t even necessarily see Kylo and Rey’s connection as traditionally romantic, it’s almost like a spiritual need and a spiritual desire because they’re narrative balances of each other — as your darkness grows, her light rises (or something) — and their differences are rooted in similarities, they’re both confused and lonely and looking for their true selves which leads them down separate paths that entwine and therefore they recognize something in each other which leads to really intimate and sensual connections, I personally don’t find that toxic or find that Rey and Kylo have to be “together” in the conventional sense...

Flint and Silver in Black Sails

It was a story about [Flint and Silver] going from a giant and the smallest man he ever knew to those two becoming allies to becoming friends to becoming singular to each other. And maybe the person who they had the closest and most personal relationship with.

I don’t necessarily agree with the last part --- I think Silver and Madi had a deeply intimate and profound romantic bond and that she saw a part of Silver that Flint didn’t, but the two of them definitely shared a spiritual connection, the story of the series hinges upon their relationship.

Furiosa and Max, Mad Max Fury Road

I actually think this movie is extremely overhyped, I watched it like “... ... ok? Didn’t have to go to the theatre to see this ...” but I remember there was a quote by Miller who said something along the lines of romance wasn’t even a thought because it was so unnecessary to the plot and yet there was a deep connection between Furiosa and Max and I think that was portrayed.

Tommy and Alfie

Another dynamic I don’t particularly care for (I also just don’t like Tom Hardy, lol) but Tommy and Alfie are meant to be narrative sames and they recognize themselves in the other and appreciate the other despite consistently betraying each other, which is really a part of the game

Cristina and Meredith

I was thinking about whether or not I found them to have a spiritual connection and I decided that they did

Draco and Harry

I consider them to have a spiritual connection despite being enemies because they’re narrative mirrors --- Draco embodies what it means to be a Slytherin, Harry embodies what it means to be a Gryffindor, Draco has two loving parents in a nuclear home, Harry doesn’t have any parents, Draco was tasked with the impossible job of killing Dumbledore, Harry was tasked with the impossible job of killing Voldemort --- and they’re obsessed with each other

“Harry, however, had never been less interested in Quidditch; he was rapidly becoming obsessed with Draco Malfoy.”  

“Malfoy bent down to examine a shelf full of skulls. “… everyone thinks he’s so smart, wonderful Potter with his scar and his broomstick —” “You have told me this at least a dozen times already,” said Mr. Malfoy, with a quelling look at his son.”  

[shortjohnsilver]

Anon

I’m not going to publish the asks but I’ll reply.

Silver is the most relateable character to me too, by far. I generally tend to relate most to abuse victims-- especially violent CA victims, more than any other sort of character. Silver isn’t explicitly written as a CA victim, but I can’t imagine that isn’t a portion of his ‘series of horrors’ or that his parents/guardian (if the home for boys part is true it could easily be one of the directors.) Just in a general sense I think there’s a lot of “I relate to THIS character the most and so anyone who crosses them is a terrible person and the enemy” and for a huge portion of the fandom that character is Flint. I don’t really care if people interpret Silver as straight because he’s not explicitly bi, I don’t care if they hate him because they perceive him that way (and have the right to.) What bothers me is the constant attempts to take that personal dislike and find reasons to make him Actually Evil and refusal to admit “hey, I just don’t care about him because I see him as straight and he did less than wonderful things to a gay man I care about because I’m gay too.” Which is cool. Instead it becomes “He bothers me so I’m going to find reasons he’s definitely bad and anyone who likes him is wrong and needs to check themselves.” A lot of Flint’s actions toward Silver feel manipulative to me, and as someone who identifies with CA victims, they made me extremely uncomfortable. It’s why I didn’t ship Silverflint at first. But I have the sense to recognize that it’s not so much that Flint is a worse person than Silver or vice versa, it’s just that I’m more invested in being defensive of one than the other because I understand one better than I do the other. They both do some really messed up things to each other, themselves, and others around them and they’re not healthy, good people. People don’t have to care about or like Silver but it’s so tiring when they try to make their personal feelings toward him facts that everyone needs to accept about him. As if Flint can’t quite easily be asserted as an indiscriminate mass murderer who will betray anyone or anything for war. The sort of coldness people manage to have against one character but not another who is equally questionable doesn’t make sense to me, but I’ll accept it as long as they don’t try to force it on me. But they do. And the reaches they make are pretty ridiculous in a lot of cases. Also I agree that what Silver did to Madi and her people is what was really fucked up. The more I think about Black Sails the more injustices toward Madi from both Silver and Flint become prominent and the more disconnected I am toward the entire situation and how fucked up they both were. She had something, she believed in something, was lead to trust them to be her allies to achieve it, and they were both really just lost in their own ways. She lost her people and her cause to their bullshit. First Flint’s bullshit when the whole thing started, then Silver’s when he made the decision for her.

In the end if I think about it too much there are reasons I don’t like any of them. I could argue good reasons why we should all hate 80% of MCs in Black Sails, especially Silver and Flint, but I’d rather just have fun and focus on what could be if these assholes got their shit together.

Meta is fun but there are huge biases and I’ve seen the ones who hate Flint and excuse everything Silver does too. They’re all the same.

[feathersandblue]

What are your thoughts on what Silver did? I keep spinning between a selfish but good act borne out of love for Flint and Madi and (therefore forgivable), and a selfish abhorrent act that deserves no forgiveness. This is without bringing in the did he shoot Flint or didn't he. For the moment, even though doubts weigh heavily, I choose to take it at face value.

That, nonnie, is an excellent question. The finaleleft my head reeling something fierce, and I’m not quite sure whatto make of it.

I also take the ending at face value, so there isthat. But I think to gain insight into Silver, we need to look at hisintentions rather than the actual outcome, and forthat, it doesn’t really matter whether Flint is in Savannah or dead.Surprise, I know.

Here are some things that I believe:

Silver did not want to kill Flint. He intended tobring him to Savannah, though, with or without his consent. If hehadn’t managed to subdue Flint, he might have killed him, albeitregretfully. Silver would have liked to secure the treasure, butif his intention had been to flat-out murder Flint right after, thenhe would have done that the exact moment Flint told him that thetreasure would stay in the ground, and not tried to reason with him –that only made sense if he wanted Flint to survive. He told Flintthat he intended for them to leave the island together, and there wasno reason for him to lie in that particular moment. He spoke ofcompromises and arrangements, and again, there was no reason for himto do that if the purpose of their expedition had simply been to putFlint into the ground. Silver had the clear goal to be the end ofFlint because he saw it as necessary, but he would only havekilled Flint if Flint had left him with no other choice.

Silver had been looking into ways to ensure thathe would be able to take Flint out if he had to. That did notnecessarily mean killing him – during that talk in 3.10, Silverpretty much laid all that out on the table, and he wassincere in that moment, in that he wanted to make sure that Flintwould not be his end, yet at the same time didn’t like the thought ofbeing Flint’s end if that meant killing him.

Silver sent Morgan to Savannah with the clearintention to find out whether Thomas was alive, so he might be ableto use that knowledge against him, if needs be, but also because hewould have wanted Flint to know of Thomas’ survival (aware that Flintlikely wouldn’t believe him until faced with solid evidence). He didnot necessarily plan to have Flint imprisoned there at that time –in the flashback, Morgan only made inquiries in regard to Thomas –but the idea would at some point have presented itself to Silver.

Silver made these inquiries because ultimately, thewar never mattered to him. First and foremost, he wanted toensure his (and Madi’s) survival. I am not sure in which way Silver would have madeuse of knowledge, had Madi not been taken prisoner during the raid –it’s possible Silver himself doesn’t know that. In any case, I don’tthink he saw making these inquiries as a form of betrayal, but as away of considering all his options.

I think what Silver said to Flint in the forest wasabsolutely true: that Silver believed that he’d gainedinsight, through his own experiences, into Flint’s motives and therage that drove him. But I’m not necessarily sure that that was really the case – it’sbecome pretty clear through the seasons, that Silver is not the kindof person who wants to change the world for a better, as opposed toboth Flint and Madi. He’s lacking that fundamental ambition, and Idon’t think he actually understands how difficult it is for aprincipled, idealistic person to give up on that goal. I’m reminded of what Miranda said in the flashbacks: “Great men[…] are, every last one of them, made great by one thing, and onething only: the relentless pursuit of a better world. The great mendon’t give up that pursuit, they don’t know how.” Silverwould in all likelihood understand the rage, because he’s shared it,but not the need to accomplish something meaningful. He’s simply notthe person for it, also partly because he’s unwilling to search forthis meaning in his own life and past, as we’ve seen last episode.This lack of true understanding of other people’s incentives makes it alot more easier for him to forego this war.

He thinks that bypreventing the war, he is saving the people closest to him from itshorrors, but he does not really understand that he also robs them of their own meaning:the chance to make a change. Flint tells him this, but Silver doesnot really understand it.

The loss of Madiand his own subsequent helpless rage, then Madi’s imprisonment andhis own fear of losing her, helped Silver see that the war wasthe worst option for everyone.The scene with the cookhelped him see how far he’d already come in his journey of turninginto Flint, and that he realized that he did not want that. If ithadn’t been for this realization, Silver would have been happy (ormaybe not happy, but willing) to go along with the war simply becauseboth Madi and Flint wanted it and he himself could continue to beLong John Silver, which he liked quite a bit.

This realization, and the decision he made in itswake, showed a remarkable maturity on his part. Silver knew he mightend up losing her but that he had to do it anyway simply because hehad seen the cost of the war, and that it would lead to everyone’sruin.

When he spoke to Flint about how he didn’t care thattheir story would be distorted and devoid of meaning, that was true,partly because Silver does not see the necessity of meaning, partly because Silver was convinced that it was the right thing todo, no matter the cost. This is truly a tragedy, because Silver iscoming into his own, he finds the strength to oppose Flint and actaccording to what he really believes, what he knows is the rightchoice in that moment. He makes the conscious decision not to becomelike Flint, and it is this choice, based on his convictions, thatboth makes and destroys him.

There may also have been a bit of self-delusion inhis actions. They were a betrayal of what Madi and Flint trulybelieved in, and he acted without consulting Madi, and against Flint’sbodily resistance. That is a betrayal of both his partners on apersonal level, but in different ways. In Flint’s case, it may havebeen the right decision (I believe it was, because Flint’s obsessionwith this went beyond what was reasonable, and it destroyed Flint andall those around him), but in Madi’s case, that is far less obviousbecause there is an entirely different aspect to it – the issue ofslavery, which Silver would not understand to the same extend. Hearguably betrays Madi to an even greater degree than Flint, eventhough Flint is the one he sends into prison. He robs her of both theopportunity to fight for what she believes in and her purposeas a leader to her people. Even if Silver were capable ofunderstanding that, he’d probably rather reject that knowledge andbelieve that Madi will come to see it his way sooner or later.

Even if Silver had known what the price would be, Ithink he would still have done it, because I truly and honestlybelieve that he thought it needed to be done, and Silver has, fromtime to time, shown a surprising ability to be selfless in thatregard.

He might also cling to the illusion that sendingFlint to prison is a more noble act than it already is, and findcomfort in that, even though ultimately, he has to be aware thatthere is a certain cruelty in condemning a man who has always been anoutcast to a life-long sentence in a prison. A prison that might looklike the greenwood, but still means that James McGraw is consideredtoo much of a monster to live among civilized people. It also shows ablatant disregard for everything Flint has fought for, but again,Silver might not be able to understand that living in the momentmight not be enough for everyone, not even with the consolation ofhaving your lost love back.

Silver, as we’re told both through Flint’s wordsand the events in Treasure Island, will miss the role of Long JohnSilver a lot more than he currently thinks, and underestimates thedamage done to his and Madi’s relationship. For him, though, what hemisses will always have more to do with his own glory and relevancethan with the noble goals of the war that could have been (I wroteabout that before).

Here’s where it gets tricky: Even if Silver hadkilled Flint on that island (which I don’t think happened), the storyhe tells Madi might be the only one he could bear to tell, whichwould then make it tragic to me in an entirely different way – thatstory would have been his way to tell her what he actually wanted forFlint – peace and happiness. I think if he’d actually killed Flint,he could have found an easier story to fabricate, especially becausethis version is ultimately easy to verify. So even if the ending inSavannah hadn’t happened the way it did, Silver would have wantedit to happen that way. Which … is arguably an interpretation evenworse than just him killing Flint without remorse and lying to Madifor entirely selfish reasons.

All of that being said…

Whether I want to or not, by thinking and writingabout Silver and his decision in these terms, I find myself, albeitreluctantly, willing to see this final episode as his redemption arcbecause I truly believe that his decision to end this war was what hethought was right. Even though it meant a greater risk of losingMadi, even though it included the loss of his friend and ally, theman to whom he owes so much, along with his title as pirate prince.And he did it anyway because he’d seen that the person he was on theverge of becoming was one he didn’t actually want to be. For Silver,as a person, I think this is a remarkable character development, andeven though it comes with his betrayal of Flint and Madi, I cannotactually blame him for it. The opposite, really.  

I have written a lot about Silver’s flaws andweaknesses, but I ultimately, I guess that I can only interpret hisintentions in this episodes as – well,not necessarily all good, but true,and after I’ve mostly bemoaned his lack of authenticity, that’s quitea pleasant surprise for me.

[misayuhki]

Billy Bones' Mystery: "Restrain the Captain"

Now I'd like to talk about the fight between Billy and Flint at the Underhill plantation.  Actually my conclusion here is plain and simple, Billy's intention here was to restrain Flint not to kill him.  Flint understood it somehow, I think, so that he seemed to Silver not angry about the incident.  And lastly I will talk about my speculation of who killed the Underhills and why Billy said nothing about it.

I'm a blint shipper, so looking for those blint moments became second nature of mine and I do this unconsciously ;-p  So if there is any blint bias going on, forgive me.

Yes, that was really really really a bad timing to rebel against the ally of Flint and Madi.  And he and his people shouldn't shoot at Flint, Madi, and their men.  But before the shooting, Billy told his people to restrain Flint.  The main purpose of Billy's fight against Flint was, I think, to restrain Flint so that Billy can continue working on plantation raids.  And the purpose of this plantation raids was to gather more men to fight with them, Flint, Madi, and Billy to take Nassau effectively.  Here Billy sort of snapped like that having a childish tantrum and exploded.  But no.  He wanted to take Nassau and rescue those brothers of his captured when the invasion failed.  Because I think Billy knew what Berringer and his men were doing to his brothers.    

Before the conflict between Billy and Flint, at the sleep chamber of Underhill estate, Billy literary begged Flint not to retreat.  When Billy said "I ask you, please, don't do this." to Flint, when Billy said "please", Jacob Garret who stood behind Billy faced downward as if it was painful for him to hear Billy beg, or he thought he shouldn't witness his leader begging.  But Flint didn't accept Billy's opinion (personally I think Flint was right, though).

As asking to Flint, I imagine Billy remembered what he'd done for Flint for all those years, and he wished and hoped that Flint hear him for once to show appreciation for Billy.  But Flint didn't.  Billy must had felt so disappointed and even betrayed.  It's natural for him to got very very furious.  But first Billy ordered his men to restrain Flint ("Henry, Davis, restrain the captain").  Of course it didn't go well and things went wrong then the shooting and the fight happened.

The fight itself, for my eyes, didn't look like deadly serious.  Billy and Flint are able fighters and killers, if they both truly tried to kill each other, I think one of them was ended up killed by the other or both of them seriously injured.  But none happened.  They both sure had some bruises and Billy had minor cuts on his face from (I suppose) Flint's punches, but they were OK.  OK as in they could have another big fight with British Navy next day.  And simply this fight lacks the intensity and fierceness of one Billy had with Vane at S2-09.

Let me get back to the fight.  I'm no expert of fighting and choreographing of fighting, but their sword fighting looked a little bit slow in speed and the movement looked a bit coordinated, like they are doing training.  

At the first couple of sword swinging of Billy made remained me of Vane went to Teach to help Flint at the beach on the Ocracoke Island.  Flint looked so surprised as Teach did. Billy swung his sword a couple of times in big motion and the moving pattern was, I think, familiar and predictable to Flint.  And Billy swung his sword at Flint sword, never aimed other than the sword.     

And then the shooting.  Billy kicked Flint before he pull out his pistol.  This kick looked rather weak to me. Billy could have kicked Flint with much stronger force so that Flint would fall on the ground.  Billy kicked Flint not to give some damage to Flint but, I think, make some distance between them so that Billy can put Flint in his gun point.

Then the shooting.  Because I think Billy's purpose of this fight is to restrain Flint not to kill him or harm him, what Billy wanted here was put or aim the barrel on Flint's forehead to make Flint stop fighting back against him.  But the barrel was swiped by Flint's sword and then (I believe) accidentally Billy pulled the trigger.

Apart from this shooting, Billy never tried to hurt Flint; his kicks were not that strong, he once punched Flint in the gut but never on the face, and when they grabbed each other's wrist, Billy (and Flint) could have head-banged but (both of them) didn't.  And the shooting, Billy could have shot Flint's belly or chest (if he really wanted to kill Flint) or other body parts to give some damage, but he didn't.  

So I think I can say in this fight Billy had no intension of hurting Flint but wanted to only restrain him and he failed, as in S1-01.  

And I believe Flint noticed the true intension of Billy.  That is why he didn't look like angry to Billy at all for Silver's (and Madi's) eyes.  But still it was shocking experience for him.  Did you hear the voice of his saying "Fall back!"?  Hoarse and shaky and breaking.  I thought he was in tears (I know I am wrong).  Flint must have realized how Billy changed, grown to be his own man, who has strong sense of responsibilities to his people.  Hope Flint will show some respect to Billy and stop ordering around like when Billy was his bosun.

After Flint and Madi ran into the corn field, Billy stood up wearing this cynical sneer on his face and went to fight with militia.  I thought he was going to be suicidal and so so worried about him.  But thankfully I was wrong.  Billy and his people fought with militia, put them away, and then sent warnings to the other estates (!!) as Ruth (not sure with her name) stated to Madi.

Lastly here I would like to talk about the killing of the Underhill family.  This is strictly my speculation because both Billy and Ruth said nothing about it but I feel the Underhill family was killed by the released slaves who had, it's easily imagined, grudge against Underhill.  Ruth didn't say it to Madi, because who wants to tell bad about your own people, especially in the time of war?  And there is Julius going around.  

Then why Billy didn't say anything, because Billy knew Flint spared them (he must have been really glad to find out that Flint didn't kill innocent people) so he wanted to do the same.  But he couldn't save them.  If you cannot save them, it is as same as you killed them.  Billy is grown so so so much, now he became an alpha male who doesn't make any excuse.

[hellsbells91]

So about Max and Silver

at the end of 4.02.

Yes it’s the end of the brotp, but when I think about it, when was there a time when they were allies or friends? They have been temporary partners in the past, but that is pretty much the extent of their relationship. So to see them acting this way towards each other, is sad perhaps but not surprising. From their own perspectives, this is pretty much what they know about the other.

Max knows (or thinks she knows) that John has been sending out black spots to pirates who sided against him. She first read the letter that proclaims John as Long John Silver. She knows that John apparently murdered a redcoat, and is allied with a pirate who sent a ship ashore full of dead redcoats. She remembers him as a petty thief who betrayed his crew, only in it for himself, and now she knows him as a ruthless murderer. 

Max is stuck in the middle of two people who she believes are brutal killers and just as bad as each other, Silver and Berringer. She has become the target of both, and has been threatened by both to join their side in the war.  Max however sees them as a continued perpetuation of violence and anger. She wishes for the violence to end and for civilisation to be protected, and believes the only way to do so is by cutting out the both of them. She will not be Silver’s friend in this war.

John on the other hand knows Max only as the person who will blackmail and manipulate and as far as he knows, she has sided with the Governor and has betrayed the people she once worked with.

So judging from this they don’t really have any reason to be open or frank with one another. John acts like the villain he is being made out to be, not the man he is around the crew, around Flint and Madi (the man we viewers know him to be). He is cold, callous and demanding. He makes no move in explaining to Max that people are making up lies about him to perpetuate their own vision of a terrifying pirate king. Why should he? Silver seems to have accepted his role in this war now, and is trying to keep up with the responsibility that others have thrust upon him.

It’s kinda sad because we know how different these two can be, and also sad because Silver might get so wrapped up in presenting himself as Long John Silver the villain that he may in fact become him (well, we know he does xD).

The look however, that Max and John share as she makes her escape after their conversation devolves into violence speaks volumes. The facade is gone and they appear more like their true selves, and in that they share a look of grief, almost. Grief at the realisation that this is what everything has come down to, grief at a bridge that is well and truly burned. Max staring in disbelief because Silver cannot see what she does, and Silver frowning because maybe, very deep down, he knows she is right.

Urghhh I hate it and I want more. I have a feeling that this is going to escalate into a war quickly between John and Berringer. The ‘hold everything together while i’m gone’ speech from Rogers is just too much of a warning bell for everything going to shit. And who knows, since Silver doesn’t appear to have much of a taste for leadership, maybe he’ll give Nassau to Max *wishful thinking*.

[hellsbells91]

Max and Silver again

In regards to the other post I made on the matter of Silver and Max’s confrontation at the end of 4.02, after a re-watch I’m coming around to another way of viewing the whole thing. One of the things I love about this show is that in some instances you can never be sure of a character’s motivation or intention until the outcome has already been realised. This also means all of what I think could be completely wrong, but I just love puzzling out this sort of thing.

It starts with Silver being taken and tied up by Israel Hands, who immediately sets himself up as someone John should fear, especially when he slits the redcoat’s throat without any hesitation, and then threatens to sell John to the Governor. So when he asks John to write that he murdered the redcoat, he does. I think that at this point, while John is pretty scared shitless of Hands, he also senses that he could be particularly useful in the future, though I am not entirely sure how at the moment.

As Flint has said previously, John’s go-to method is to talk himself out of any dangerous situation -  so, Silver does what he does best, and spins a story. In this moment you see him snap almost immediately from confusion and fear to that calm confidence we’ve come to know and love. He doesn’t just reveal that he knows who Israel is, he does it in such a way that reignites Hands’ hatred of Teach. It’s one of Silver’s signature techniques, I guess - instead of expending effort trying to get someone to like you, remind them that there’s someone else that they hate more. He needs to do this if he has any chance of not being handed over to the enemy.

So John runs with the ‘Long John Silver’ character that has been set up for him, asserting that he is someone who is incredibly important, and also an incredibly formidable enemy should anyone choose to make him as such. But at the same time, he also conveys to Hands that he is just like him:

“I’m no one…. I’m a wretch like you.”

And that he hates Captain Teach just as much - thus making himself into someone relatable to Hands, who can potentially be allied with. Someone who represents a new beginning for Nassau where Hands won’t have to hide away in shame, and someone who is worth a lot of money to the right people. In doing so, John has ensured his safety, at least for the time being. It’s almost a callback to the beginning of season one where John makes himself indispensable. 

But he still needs a way out of this arrangement. He can’t go to his pirate allies, they most likely don’t have the funds to offer a greater amount than the English, and even if they did it might be difficult to explain why John is so eager to return to the same pirate camp that are so closely allied with Captain Teach themselves.

So instead he goes to one of the last people he thinks might just help him: Max. The woman who may just hand over the cash he needs, earn John his freedom and in turn keep Israel Hands as an ally rather than an enemy. It’s a risk, and you can see how nervous he is when Max approaches their meeting point. He made a similar play with Mr. Dobbs in season 3 that hinged entirely upon his own understanding of the other’s character - a risk that paid off and resulted in the pirates winning against the British navy. But this is where John slips up by doing something he rarely ever does, which is mis-reading a person.

He doesn’t count upon the fact that Max will hold up the interests of Nassau above her own gain, or that she will come with back up and a plan to hide John away from the conflict until it is all over. John’s mistake is thinking that Max will bow to any threat he poses towards her. She doesn’t, and adds that killing him herself would be hypocritical of her. Max has become one of the most, if not the most, honourable characters in the story. 

(There’s still the question of why isn’t John honest with her about what’s going on, but as I mentioned before it might just be because he thinks Max has betrayed them and sided with the Governor).

The intervention of Max’s men leads Israel Hands to reveal his true colours, which adds to John’s image (in Max’s eyes) as a very dangerous and ruthless murderer. In her eyes John has gone way passed the point of return, or being convinced that there is a better way. So that’s why I think that in their departure, amongst everything else, is a sense of grief of what has become of everyone - after all it is Max who has commented previously on how fast the world is changing and the people along with it. She is enlightened in a way that Silver does not understand, or perhaps never cared to to dwell upon. 

Max and Silver are such a fascinating relationship to watch build throughout the course of the show. They begin in season one as equals at the bottom of the food chain (so to speak), opportunist thieves who decide to become partners in crime in order to better themselves. They climb the social ladder, Max in Nassau and Silver on Flint’s crew until they hold high positions of power. Max gains the treasure, Silver loses his leg, but they both find along the way something they’ve not had before, a sense of belonging. However that’s when their paths begin to diverge - Silver begins his ‘journey into the dark’ whilst Max begins to realise a different way to protect Nassau. 

This confrontation is where it all comes to a head, but even after the fight I don’t think John is angry at Max, I think he’s angry at himself for the meeting going so catastrophically wrong. I definitely also think that there is some part of John that knows that Max is right. Is it possible that John is not passed the point of convincing? Guess we’ll have to see.