#and then harper ALSO has to be incredibly stupid not just for the comic but also to then turn around and RECYCLE IT FOR ME3

[sparatus]

the reason they disappeared abrudas from evolution after 5 pages of screentime and without even an on-page fate is cause they knew the plot only works if both desolas and harper grab the idiot ball like a terrier with a squeaky toy, and they knew abrudas was too powerful and would avert the plot entirely by telling desolas he's being stupid and also killing harper and co with her bare hands

[ursie]

What is batcest? I’ve seen that term thrown around and I’m not sure what it means

Oof ok putting a read more as this might be triggering

Ok so batcest refers to the incestual (and often pedophilic) relationship (and it’s shippers) between members of Bruce’s family *to clarify I’m saying Bruce as whilst Steph and Babs are “batkids” they are not his children and relationships w them while not always good are not incestuous-batcest does not just mean a “bad” ship it specifically means an incestuous one

Ships that are batcest : in any combination

Bruce x Dick/Jason/Cass/Tim/Damian/Duke/Helena (Wayne)/Alfred

Dick x Bruce/Jason/Cass/Tim/Damian/Duke/Helena Wayne/Alfred

Jason x Bruce/Dick/Cass/Tim/Damian/Duke/Helena Wayne/Alfred

Tim x Bruce/Dick/Jason/Cass/Damian/Duke/Helena Wayne/Alfred

Cass x Bruce/Dick/Jason/Cass/Tim/Damian/Duke/Helena Wayne/Alfred

Damian x Bruce/Dick/Jason/Cass/Tim//Duke/Helena Wayne/Alfred/MAR’I

Duke x Bruce/Dick/Jason/Cass/Tim/Damian/Helena Wayne/Alfred

Helena x Bruce/Dick/Jason/Cass/Tim/Damian/Duke/Alfred

Alfred x Bruce/Dick/Jason/Cass/Tim/Damian/Duke/Helena Wayne/his daughter I’m blanking on

Babs is not one of Bruce’s kids and thus her ships as a general rule are not batcest however Cass is her daughter (she’s also Bruce’s no one is denying that) so shipping them would be incestuous and thus under the batcest umbrella

Ships that are not batcest but still bad vibes :

Bruce x Babs it’s not batcest he’s not her dad it being a bad ship doesn’t make it incest-also this ship has complicated comic history as tbh she’s closer to Bruce’s age than Dicks half the time-she was originally written as his love interest

Babs x Tim/or Jason yes it’s weird-yes it’s pedophilic no it’s not batcest they’re not related yes it’s still a bad ship

Harley Quinn x Dick yes it’s creepy no it’s not incest *will say the batkids w Selina/Talia I consider to be under the batcest umbrella as they both are fundamentally their step moms/the actual mother of one of their brothers-it’s close enough 😭

As a general rule any weird age gap ships between non related bat characters whilst yes weird are not automatically batcest I’m clarifying because I’ve seen it used about a Bruce x Babs art (pre52 ect) and whilst you may have your opinions on the ship I wouldn’t consider it a batcest one ect

Ships that are often mistakenly referred to as batcest by ship “antis” (I hate that word I don’t know a different word to use here) but again are not batcest as they are not incestuous-Bruce can be a mentor w/o characters being siblings :

As I’ve already said almost (Cass excluded) every Babs ship as again she’s not Bruce’s daughter nor is she any of their sister even if she views Tim/Jason/ect in a sibling manner that doesn’t make Dick x Babs incest-I don’t even like Dick x Babs but calling it that is an incredibly stupid argument

Steph x any of the batkids : while some are worse than others it’s not incest and for the love of god pls stop calling Cass her sister she’s not StephCass even if you don’t ship it is not an incestual ship 😭 nor is TimSteph

Helena BERTINELLI x Dick people need to stop mixing her up with Helena Wayne. Yes Helena Wayne is his sister-Helena Bertninelli is not. Pls learn to tell the huntresses apart before you say people are shipping incest for shipping them (real things I’ve seen 😭)

Any of the fox kids again just because you’re loosely connected through the batfam does not make you related 😭 Tim and Tam and Luke & Babs are fine. My god

Harper x Cass or Steph again they’re not related

Hope this clarifies it a bit. In summary it means incestual ship however some people use it a bit loosely just at that side of the fandom which while fair tbh is confusing when you’re not used to it. Hope I explained well enough feel free to ask any questions ect

[cherrystainedknuckles]

3, 11, 13, 24 for ask game!

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

there are so many terrible takes I've seen on tumblr and discord jc. "steph sucks bc she was abusive to tim" never fails to make my blood boil. "bruce should adopt roy harper" is a very close second and let's go for third... "jason is tim's favorite brother." yeah.

11. number of fandom-related words you've filtered

I don't actually have a lot but I do have "jason todd" and "#jason todd" filtered. I think that's it? I do have a few people blocked also. I just couldn't stand seeing jason's stupid face anymore and my dc tumblr experience has become so much better

13. worst blorboficiation

oh tim. obviously. "my sweet little touch starved baby with abusive parents and an inferiority complex." fascinating! every word of that sentence was incorrect. he's a latchkey kid who is incredibly social, thinks he's god, and would commit seppuku on the spot at the most minor inconvenience. get it right

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

"should batman kill people?" "does cass know asl?" "batfandom hates women" "if you're in the dc fandom you should read comics" are all forum questions/statements locked after 5000 pages of debate. all of these got me mod warned in incredibly popular dc servers. also never ask a damian stan whether or not they think he has a PhD.

thank you for your ask !!

[stxleslyds]

MY THOUGHTS ON TITANS’ RED HOOD,

BEFORE WATCHING THE LAST EPISODE.

I will start by saying that I haven’t been able to watch the show, these are my thoughts after reading a very well-written and detailed review of the last episode. The review is also written by someone that enjoys the show, this is important because my thoughts don’t align with theirs.

I understand that Titans is known for being garbage, I know their writing is messed up, and I had no hope whatsoever for them to actually write a good Jason Todd/Red Hood story. I would also like to make clear that this post is in no way hate towards the actor playing Jason, this post is just my thoughts on Jason’s characterization.

What I really don’t like is these shows/movies taking the names of loved characters and making an “original character” out of them. Yes, there are different takes of the character and you can build their story differently but I do feel that what they did with Jason is beyond all that. They twisted every concept from his origin and his story, nothing really fits, but someway, somehow, they still managed to push all the wrong narratives when it comes to Robin Jason.

Two of the most horrible narratives that DC has decided to push are “Robin Jason was reckless and a troubled kid that never did what he was told” and “Jason Todd is to blame for his death”.

The show does push the one where Jason is reckless. Jason is consumed by fear, and Bruce Wayne pays attention to that but he doesn’t only do that, he also offers comfort and help, he tries to make Robin Jason go to therapy.

This is huge, they build up the perfect scenario for Jason to not become the Red Hood. But for some reason, they decided to make Jason reckless and too eager to prove that he didn’t need that kind of help. And then they didn’t help Jason’s case because they wrote their Bruce as a caring father that does not want to see his son get hurt or end up dead.

This Bruce Wayne is doing everything that comics Bruce Wayne didn’t. This Bruce cares, so once more, one would think that this Jason wouldn’t become the Red Hood. But, surprise! Jason Todd doesn’t take well the news of him not being able to be Robin anymore.

Here is the thing, if you were Bruce in this situation, would you let this Jason continue to be Robin when he is a danger to himself? I know I wouldn’t.

Here is where Titans’ terrible writing reaches its peak. They have a vulnerable and reckless Jason try to prove that he can still be Robin by working on *something* that can take his fears away. Jason Todd wants to make a drug, let that one sink in.

Jason Todd wants to make something that is basically a drug. Did Titans really erase the fact that Jason’s mother overdosed? Because that’s one of the most important things in Jason’s life and that built up his hate for drugs and what they do to people. His mother was in an abusive relationship and that led her to do drugs and later led her to her own death.

This might not sound too important to other people but to me, it’s something that has always been important to Jason’s character before and after his death.

Going back to the actual show, Jason goes to Scarecrow, willingly, and asks him to make him a drug that will make him don’t feel fear. I know that this Jason is vulnerable and that he probably thinks that therapy isn’t working for him, but why on earth would Jason think that making Scarecrow make a drug for him would be a good idea?

How does that make sense? The show is basically telling us that Jason had a support system and that he was going to therapy because Bruce wouldn’t want to lose his SON. Why does this show go far and beyond to make Jason look reckless and dumb?

This is not me comparing Comics Jason to Titans Jason anymore, this is me finding Titans’ logic unnecessarily stupid, they really went out of their way to write pure stupidity.

Why would they write Bruce as a caring father and as actively working so Jason can be in a better mental state so he won’t lose him as his son if they are also going to write Jason as an incredibly reckless man? Are we supposed to be on Bruce’s side? Because as of now, Bruce is the only one with brain cells.

There is absolutely no way to compare that to comics because in comics Bruce neglected Jason’s needs and refused to see that Jason had different morals even back then, and that neglect was key in Jason jumping onto the idea that he needed someone that he could call family and actually care for him. He wanted love and attention from a parental figure because he didn’t feel like he had one. Robin wasn’t everything that Jason was, he was also a kid with normal needs.

So, you build that completely different and actually give Jason the support that he also wanted in the show but for some reason, he is fiercely attached to Robin even though his fear comes from the fact that he almost died for being Robin. There is no logic to this Jason’s actions and that isn’t on Jason it's on the writers’ incredibly garbage writing. It is like they come up with ten different ideas and they put all of them but none of them are actually solid and well-developed concepts.

And you can’t tell me to get over it because “Titans has always had bad writing, there were two seasons of bad writing”. Listen, if you are happy to consume media that is badly written then that’s on you, Jason is one of my favorite characters, I don’t want him to be written badly just because that’s the show’s style. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with me wanting writers to actually care about the characters they are writing for, all three seasons have had different writers, is it really so far-fetched for me to want one of these people to write something that makes sense?

Jason's death was tragic in both comics and the show, and he was a victim in both of them, yes. But the show really pushes the limits of that, Jason wanted to take something to make him not fear, he looked for Scarecrow (not Dr. Jonathan Crane, Scarecrow, and he was an already established villain) to make him this drug when he couldn’t make it himself. He trusted Scarecrow (for some weird reason) and then as a test he went to fight Joker? It’s tragic because it ended with Jason dying but it's also tragic because the writing is just bad. It just is, and that is a problem for me.

From then on, we have the “big connection” to comics, the Lazarus Pit! Wow, you guys did it, yeah, everyone loves the Lazarus Pit, every time I think about Jason, I only think about that one time in which he was thrown in a Lazarus Pit to recover his mental injuries or all of his injuries after he came back from the dead.

This Jason has no training, there is no Talia, no League of Assassins, no Ducra or All-Castle, there is only Scarecrow and his new puppet, the Red Hood.

It changes everything and I don’t like it. Once again, I understand and know the concept of the multiverse, the various earths, and the Elseworlds, but that doesn’t mean that I have to like this take on Jason Todd/Red Hood along with its horrendous writing.

I don’t have to like it, just like I understand that others do like it because it is their first contact with the character or because they are fine, as fans of the character, with a new take. I am not gatekeeping Jason Todd or Red Hood; I am just saying that my being angry at this version and absolutely hating it is just as valid as liking this version of Jason.

Red Hood in Titans is just Scarecrow’s puppet, that’s how things are, and I just think that it is too big of a change from the original reasons for Jason to become Red Hood. And I will never get tired of saying this, Red Hood wasn’t only all about the Joker killing him and Batman not killing the Joker. The Red Hood was Jason’s way to make things work, to prove to Bruce that Batman wasn’t enough for Gotham. Red Hood came back to Gotham to stop bad people from introducing children to drugs and to make Gotham’s people feel safe.

He thought that Red Hood was the better version of Batman for Gotham and its people.

But I am not blind, I can see how Titans can twist it again to give us Red Hood as a protector of children and Gotham in general. I can see the “I used to do drugs and now I will fight so no other person goes through the same”, I see it and I am aware of it but it does also bring me to my other problem with Titans and DC in general: story swapping.

Story Swapping is something that DC loves to do, they thrive when they make change people’s origins for others and when they take character traits from one character to another.

And Titans’ Jason Todd is just that, he has characteristics and plot concepts from Dick Grayson and if what I just predicted happens then he will have some of Roy Harper's characteristics. And that is exactly what Lobdell did, but somehow, they managed to get different results. I cannot praise Titans for giving us a new Red Hood origin because they made his characterization with the help of other character’s origins and/or stories.

This is the first time that we see a live-action Jason Todd/Red Hood, was it really that hard to just stick to his origins as both Robin and Red Hood? There is so much to explore from Jason, there is so much between his death and him becoming Red Hood, from both before and after New 52.

Jason becoming Red Hood under the influence of Scarecrow in moths is lazy, bland and an insult to Jason’s character. They could have done things by the book and then explore things that we have never seen before in a show or movie.

Jason has had so much training outside of Gotham, why did Titans think that they could do acceptable work at bringing this amazingly complex character in a show that has nothing to do with him.

They could have had him killed in the Titans show and then wait and make a Red Hood show to actually tell a good story. What is Jason Todd doing in a show that is called Titans? Where are the Titans? They chose the most recognizable Titans’ line-up and they are not using it. They butchered Garth and Donna and for what?

DC gets away way too much with selling their stupid shows and movies by telling us that x character will appear but then when you watch the thing for that x character, they are nowhere to be seen. That’s exactly what they did with Cassandra Cain and what they are doing with Red Hood.

I don’t know how this tv show is doing, I only know that as a non-American that pays the same money for an HBO Max subscription, I don’t get to see any Titans content, not even a miserable trailer.

But I know that if non-comic readers are watching it, they will love it and if they actually were to start reading comics because of the show, then they wouldn’t find that Jason there. So, either that leads to Jason’s characterization being messed up even more within comics or it does nothing for Jason or comics.

To end this post, I just want to bring up the animated movie Batman: Under the Red Hood (2010).

That movie was widely praised and loved by critics, comic readers, and non-comic readers. It was fantastic, the story was amazing (even though it had differences with the comic, one might say that the differences improved the story), the voice acting was phenomenal, everything was done beautifully. Do you know what made it that way? The writing.

And you know who wrote the animated movie? The same person who wrote the comic the movie is based on, Judd Winick.

With that I am not saying that Titans should have had Judd write for them, what I am saying is that given the fact that they are using a pre-existing character they should chat with the Red Hood’s creator or even the writer that wrote for him for ten years after the character came back to comics.

This show obviously didn’t do that though, they preferred to write Jason Todd/Red Hood as if he were a Titans original character, but the thing is, from where I see it Titans didn’t give us an OC, they gave us an OOC.

-

So, to sum it all up, I hate Titans’ version of Jason Todd/Red Hood, I think that it is not only badly written but there is also no real logic to what they are trying to do so far. I am also tired of their bad and lazy writing in general. And I would have liked the Titans’ writers to actually respect the Red Hood lore because if they had I would have actually been excited about a Red Hood spin-off show.

Using the material that is available to you isn’t a crime, building from that material is the best thing that they could have done, but all they really wanted to do was use Red Hood’s name to get more money from a dying show.

It makes the show look cheap and actually not interested in giving us good stories, and no, I wasn’t expecting Captain America: The Winter Soldier levels of good writing or good changes to a very loved story/characters, I was actually expecting some Lobdell writing level and the way I see it we ended up getting something worse.

These are all my opinions. You can like, love, or dislike this version of Jason and the show as much as you want but you won’t find any form of love towards the show in this blog, at least not right now.

-

MY THOUGHTS ON TITANS’ RED HOOD,

AFTER WATCHING THE LAST EPISODE.

Well, I will start this part by saying: Sorry. I am sorry that I believed that Titans’ Red Hood was bad, it is actually worse than bad.

I was so wrong on many things, that review really made me think that things weren’t that bad but I still hated what I read. Now that I have watched the episode because I wanted this post to be extra honest and to stop myself from saying stupid stuff, I can also say that I hated what I watched.

This show really validates the two most horrible narratives that DC has been pushing for Jason: “he was a reckless Robin that didn’t think about his actions” and “he was to blame for his own death”

Jason Todd wasn’t a victim of Scarecrow, this Jason Todd took every single bad decision that he could, and those decisions led him to his death. No sympathy for this man.

Also, this Jason is like 19? He doesn’t look younger than that, but that’s not the point, what I am trying to point out is that this Robin is extremely underprepared, he lacks training and the mental capacity to stop acting like an edge lord every time he opens his mouth. He is annoying.

And I was wrong about Titans erasing the plotline of Jason’s mother dying of an overdose, she did die that way and this Jason spoke of her as if he hated her. What is going on? This Jason really doesn’t make me feel an ounce of sympathy for him. This attitude of “no one understands my pain” when everybody is trying to help you doesn’t make you look cool or anything of the sort, it makes you look annoying.

It is even worse because this Jason is so immature and reckless that he made his friend Molly (that is just a normal teen with no training) go after a thug with him, while he was not mentally well. He made that decision for them and put himself and her in danger. If that scene had gone any other way, then Jason could have been guilty of getting his friend injured or killed.

Jason Todd is so incredibly dumb; he is not a child but he acts like one every step of the way.

Nothing makes sense in his whole ass interaction with Bruce in front of the theatre, it’s like Jason refuses to listen to what Bruce tells him, well not that he refuses to listen it is more like a “Telefono descompuesto” I don’t know if you guys have that game but you basically have to tell something in someone’s ear and then the person repeats what they understood to the next and so on, what you said is heavily distorted by the end of the game. In this scene that is exactly what happens but it’s between two people.

When Jason accuses Bruce of not taking away Robin from Dick, Bruce says something along the lines of “I learned from my mistakes” and Jason says “so, I am a mistake now?”. Jason, use your ears, if Bruce says that he learned from his mistakes when talking about Dick, then his mistake was what he did with Dick. The writing is so bad, it's actually painful and it is even worse because the acting is bad, but I can’t blame the actors, it must really be hard to make a scene work when the writing is that bad. (Also, the unnecessary pauses, and the sounds that they play after they say something stupid, it is too funny).

Do you know what made me cringe? When they were having the chat in the theatre, in my mind all I could hear was “if you are nothing without the suit then you shouldn’t have it”, not me quoting Tony Stark in my head! I haven’t even watched that movie! But it fits perfectly for that scene.

The interaction with Scarecrow was more than dumb, if Jason was already acting like a child, now, he is basically acting like a toddler. Scarecrow saw right through him in seconds and just as fast decided that he was going to have fun with his new toy. He gave him a formula that wasn’t quite correct even though it looked like he knew exactly how to make the reverse version of his fear gas. This Jason has zero detective or survival skills but we already knew that when he made himself get captured and tortured by Deathstroke.

Anyway, all the interactions with Scarecrow were allowed to happen because this Jason can’t put two and two together. He convinces himself that everyone is out to get him, dude, Bruce is a detective and he also has eyes, Leslie didn’t tell him anything. If I were Bruce, you wouldn’t be able to be Robin anymore either.

I understand that Jason is not in a good mental place and that he wants to make his fears go away, but he had support, people around him were trying to get him help, trying to make him understand that he was hurting himself. His over-the-top anger and recklessness are unjustified when you refuse to take the help that is being offered to you.

He made terrible decisions for selfish purposes and that got him killed.

This is one of the last things I want to say, Scarecrow either didn’t need Jason at all to get out of Arkham or the writers made an oopsie because at the end of the episode he had someone helping him put Jason in the Lazarus Pit and then he was out of Arkham and he had a suit ready for Jason and everything. How did he manage all that? No idea.

The Lazarus Pit, yeah, I am sorry to be that person but the Pit can’t bring back people from the dead, it can only restore or heal physical and mental injuries (however grave they were), but Lobdell messed that one up already and Titans really didn’t have time to write a single good scene so what was I expecting?

Anyway, the last thing I wanted to say is that I know why Jason or Red Hood seems to not be affected by the drug when he sees Molly at the end of the episode, it is because the executive producer of the show is Geoff Johns! He loves making Jason fall for girls and get all mushy and dumb, do you guys remember how dumb he got when he left with Rose?

Jason being written as the kind of guy that acts like a love-sick puppy with a girl but also screams at her when he gets mad is peak Geoff Johns. So, if you were wondering where that came from, well, there it is.

Yeah, that is all I had to say, honestly if you have read this whole post then you are one strong individual, I am sorry I put you through all my thinking and rambling. You didn’t really deserve that.

I didn’t want to delete the first part of the post because I talked about so much more than the show and my thoughts before watching the episode still stand. I hope this post isn’t too confusing. As always you can think the complete opposite of me about the show or anything, I am just writing my thoughts.

Having said all that, I hope all of you, Titans’ lovers, haters, and people that simply do not care, have a wonderful week!

[nightwingmyboi]

Pt 1) Rebirth didn't have to nerf Dick and Roy's friendship to have Roy and Jason be friends but they did it anyway and I'm fucking pissed. Roy not wanting to tell Dick he was involved in some serious drug busts??? Dick would have been the first person he went to! Roy saying he knows who his "true friends" are and then cutting contact with Dick??? Uh??? Did we read the same fucking comics pre reboot? Dick was going to force Roy into rehab, Roy forced Dick to sleep and eat

Pt 2) Roy and Dick saw each other as brothers! Lian called Dick uncle dick! I!! Hate!! What!! They!! Did!! And considering Nightwing 2016 showed Dick and Jay patrolling together, it didn't even need to happen. You want Roy to be on a team with Jason? Why not team up Roy, Jason, and Dick?? It would be a cool ass dynamic?? And the fact that they went out of their way to make Dick look like a prick??? "Guess Dick has more morals than I thought" uh what??? The fuck???

Pt 3) Roy Harper knows Dick has morals?? Where the fuck did this come from??? Roy fucking defended Dick withholding information from the Titans in the comics from the 80s and 90s but here he is acting like Dick is actually a terrible person??? Like??????? I was genuinely enjoying the Rebirth Titans comics, but then they pulled all this shit with Roy and Dick just because they wanted Roy to be back in RHATO, and I'm so pissed.

Amen to all of this. I agree with you 100%...I can’t even read RHATO cause it makes me so freaking mad. The idea that Roy doesn’t trust Dick is laughable. Forget some “serious” drug bust, Roy literally trusted Dick to help him deal with Cheshire and find his daughter, Lian:

Action Comics #613

He needs help on something so incredibly personal, and the first person he turns to is Dick. He doesn’t even trust the other Titans on this one (not even Donna). And just to emphasize that this was a huge deal for him: 

Action Comics #617

And Dick was the one to fight off Cheshire, save Roy, and rescue Lian. He was the reason that Roy was able to be with his daughter. Afterwards, Roy admits how much he has always envied and admired Dick: 

Action Comics #618

Up until this point, Roy was convinced that he’d done nothing but screw things up. He listed some of it above, but his life was kind of a mess. He got into drugs, was kicked out by Green Arrow, left the Titans, fell for an assassin and knocked her up all by the age of 19. Yikes. And Dick supports him and tells him that he’s not a failure--that he’s a good man. This may seem like a simple thing, but for Roy it was huge!! 

This is the point where Roy was really able to turn things around. Roy found a reason to keep moving forward, Lian, and was finally coming to terms with his insecurities. And Roy has Dick to thank for that and he knows it. So yeah, Roy admires Dick so much. He was jealous of Dick when they first met, but that envy soon morphed into admiration. To Roy, Dick is amazing. Period. When Roy gets into tough situations, he thinks back to things Dick has said or has taught him to get out of them. 

Not to say that this isn’t a two way street. They both trust and respect each other so freaking much: 

Their relationship was so good. One of the things that always stands out to me about them is how often they held each other accountable and pushed each other to be better. Their relationship was all about respect and tough love. I know that fanon likes to see Dick as this big softie/pushover, but when he feels he needs to be, Dick is stubborn as hell and super confrontational (like, this man does not care about stepping on a few toes to get the job done). And Roy was one of the few people that was able to meet Dick head to head and get through to him when he was being stupid. And vice versa. 

God, remember when Dick was super depressed about Donna’s death and Roy was calling Dick constantly (even though Dick couldn’t bring himself to answer)? And then Roy started the Outsiders specifically so that Dick wouldn’t self-destruct all by himself? Pretty much the only times that Dick smiles during this period of time where Donna is dead are because of Roy. You can see he’s trying so hard to cheer Dick up here and get him out of his funk: 

Outsiders (2003) #1

These two had such great history. They were so good for each other. And sure, I’d be fine with Roy being friends with Jason also, but they basically performed character assassination for that to happen lmao. Like I said, I haven’t read a lot of the RHATO comics, but from what I’ve seen they’ve made regressed Roy to an extent that is pretty pitiful and spits in the face of decades of character development. Honestly, Roy is from Dick’s generation and has soooo much experience as a hero, he should not be made into Jason’s lackey (more thoughts on that here). Roy’s a much more compelling character to me when he is with the Titans, where he seems like his own person with his own motivations. I don’t need him to be a prop for Jason Todd! I have no idea why they have to destroy Roy’s relationship with Dick to make him BFFs with Jason either. I feel like all the characters involved suffer for it, even Jason. 

So yeah, “Uncle Dick” is right. These two were family. It's kind of heartbreaking to see DC destroy that. 

Thanks for the ask anon! You’re very right, and you gave me a great excuse to rant about how much I love these two. 

[inanotheruniversemusings]

now they’re annoyed we’re not looking at the menu just yet

fill for Supercorptober2020 prompt: dog

read on ao3

Early morning conference calls are the bane of Lena Luthor’s existence. But early morning conference calls on a Sunday is a category of its own cause of misery.

Lena’s just about to indulge herself, starting with some warm morning sunlight that actually feels pleasant and not at all burning. Perhaps some waffles next—a rarity and a treat all the same, and one she thinks she rightfully deserves after the week she’s had. 

Her Au Lait has been served, its aroma already feeling like a balm that soothes a fair amount of the roughness from the past week. It’s also at the right temperature, exactly how she prefers it, and is merely waiting for her to take that first sip when her phone rings and her screen flashes her assistant’s name.

Lena knows that Jess knows that she is not to be disturbed, has left explicit instructions not to before she turned her laptop off and stepped out of her office around eleven that past Friday night.

So Lena knows it’s going to be one of those days again, because Jess knows and she called anyway.

This is where Lena Luthor finds herself: inside one of her favorite cafes, needing to trade the perfect sunlight and her perfect breakfast for switching on a laptop she’s made a promise not to touch today, in a quiet spot tucked at the corner of the cafe, and cold food she’ll come back to once it’s over.

At least her new seat has the view of the windows; Lena tries to take some consolation from that. Though she’s not entirely sure because she can see the place she’s just vacated and now it feels more like an annoyance than an actual source of comfort.

She’s just five minutes in on the call, but there’s already a rapidly escalating argument between two of her board members. Two men Lena hasn’t found a valid reason to replace yet—though she already has their replacements in mind—and the only thing Lena can do short of dropping from the call itself is wish for some kind of distraction to keep her from doing something stupid and definitely legally liable, like firing every single one of them on the spot.

(In the end, Lena just rolls her eyes.)

…

The distraction is a good kind, and comes in the form of a fluffy white dog with a red handkerchief tied around its neck like a tiny cape, his tongue lolling out as he plops down sitting right by Lena’s feet. 

Lena doesn’t notice him at first, the slow rise of her temper being another kind of distraction that she absolutely hates. She’s a little too occupied with glaring at everyone through their screens, her patience nearing the end of its already short thread in each second that passes.

The dog doesn’t seem to like that either, doesn’t like the scowl that’s starting to paint itself on Lena’s face. So he whines his protest, bumping his head on Lena’s hand that’s hanging limply over the chair’s arm, and inevitably announcing his presence to Lena.

Lena almost jumps in surprise, and it’s only thanks to the dog’s kind face that she doesn’t—and the years and years of experience facing all kinds of clowns behind L-Corp’s boardroom doors.

She does press a hand over her chest though, prompting Chelsea from HR to ask if everything’s alright.

“Yes, everything’s fine,” Lena assures, dismissing that line of questioning by clearing her throat. “Please do continue.”

The dog lets out another whine from the lack of attention but switches his approach, rubbing his face on the back of Lena’s hand this time. Her fingers flex in turn, curling around his head in tender pets that settles him down.

“I don’t believe I’ve seen this proposal everyone seems to be too keen to discuss,” Lena snips on the call, though her hand slides down through soft fur, settling on a fluffy neck. “And on a Sunday, too.”

The man from earlier—Donald from Operations in their Dallas office, Lena vaguely remembers; she really needs to do a revamp soon—begins to contend the necessity of the call. But it’s all mindless chatter to Lena now, her concentration quickly slipping away from the conversation and down to the adorable creature still imploring for more of her attention.

Lena discreetly angles the camera away while Donald prattles on, tipping the screen even farther back so that less of her face is visible. She then taps on one of the pods tucked in her ear to mute her side of things from the conference, and finally gives the dog the attention he deserves.

He barks at that, seemingly recognizing that Lena is his now, his tongue lolling back out again in excitement. The sight makes Lena chuckle, and she rewards him with scratches at the back of his ears.

His whole body wiggles at that, but it’s the lack of jingling sounds that draws Lena’s gaze towards the name tag stuck in between the tiny bells. She stoops down slightly to fix it, the pad of her thumb tracing the letters carved comically on the metal plate.

Krypto.

A small rolled up paper takes her attention next, tucked behind his blue collar belt. Lena plucks it out and twists the collar back into place, then proceeds to unroll the paper in between her fingers with a puzzled frown.

Hi.

Lena snaps her head up, her gaze sweeping around and out of the cafe. But it’s quite abrupt that it prompts another round of is everything okay, Miss Luthor from her colleagues.

“Yes, everything is still fine,” she says. “Though I ought to ask you that because it’s been twenty minutes and we clearly are achieving nothing.”

It effectively silences everyone on the other side of the call, save for Jess who’s at the far corner of Lena’ screen, her lips twitching, Lena can see. Hers almost does too, at the startled look on their faces, but Lena manages to set it to a thin line that conveys her obvious dismay. “I suggest we table this topic for the next board meeting and move to what’s next on our agenda.”

She waits for the chorus of yes, Miss Luthor—though she gets whatever you think is best, Miss Luthor from those who’ve developed an unfortunate habit of sucking up, as if it ever did them any favors—before she taps on her earpod again to get her on mute. Her gaze darts back to skimming the place, until it lands on her previous table that a blonde newcomer is now occupying.

Lena’s brow rises of its own accord, her head cocking the tiniest bit at the woman who seems to be waiting for Lena to notice her. And now that Lena has, she lifts a finger and points towards the paper Lena remembers she’s still holding; makes a show of taking a leisurely sip from her own cup of coffee to hide her smug grin.

Lena looks down at the paper once more. It still says Hi and nothing else, so she roots for the pen she keeps inside her purse, scribbling her own Hi that she punctuates with a question mark.

She rolls it up again, tucking it in the same place she found it. She pats Krypto’s head next, and then directs his gaze to where the blonde woman is perched on.

He recognizes her immediately, darting off of his spot and through the automatic sliding doors, straight to where his owner is.

Lena would’ve loved to watch the woman’s next move, but the conference call is still unfortunately going and doesn’t seem to be stopping anytime soon, much to Lena’s displeasure.

Another round of arguments starts, sparked by Karen this time—still from Operations in Dallas, and Lena probably should begin the reorganization as early as tomorrow—who dismisses Jess so flippantly when the latter asked if she could offer any assistance that Lena feels the rise in her temper almost physically.

“Need I remind you, Miss Harper, that Jess is my assistant,” Lena says. Pointed. Biting. “If you have any issues with that, take it directly to me.”

There’s a string of much more colorful words lining up at the tip of Lena’s tongue, and really, Karen should be thankful of Krypto trotting back to where he’s been sitting that Lena’s able to keep them from being let loose.

A fresh rolled up piece of paper is tucked in Krypto’s collar once more, though it’s in the opposite spot of where the previous one has been. Lena fishes it out to read the ensuing message.

You’re really pretty.

Lena throws a glance towards Krypto’s owner, who boldly winks at her when they meet each other’s eyes—Lena absolutely does not blush at that at all—before picking her pen back up to write her reply.

Thank you?

She sends Krypto back, and then faces the screen once more. The call is about to clock at forty minutes now, to which Lena’s honestly tempted to just halt completely, send everyone to pack up and just meet her in three days.

They’d all oblige anyway, Lena knows this. But how she can’t even manage to scrounge for a decent reason why she isn’t doing so is the real mystery.

She hears more than sees the patter of paws on the floor—and, ah, yes, the dog. Lena is able to put up with so much nonsense for an early Sunday morning because of a very, very cute dog, and his very, very charming owner.

Their messenger lets out another bark as he throws himself up to lean on Lena’s lap. Lena snatches another paper in his collar before it gets drenched in slobber, rewarding Krypto with more scratches in between murmurs of you’re such a good boy, and a boop on the tip of his nose.

You seeing anybody?

Lena can’t help the laugh that escapes from her mouth, feeling incredibly grateful that she hasn’t forgotten to go on mute. She looks at the blonde woman once more, watches her cross her arms and lean back against the chair rest. She wiggles her eyebrows playfully at Lena, her bottom lip caught in between her teeth. It’s a sight that Lena shouldn’t even find as attractive as she does given the way her glasses shake along with each movement, but she does, and even Science wouldn’t be able to explain her reasons why.

Lena can only shake her head at the woman’s antics. She returns her attention back to the paper, penning what might be her heartbreak.

Happily married, actually

She gets a pout as the woman’s initial reply; not that Lena’s staring at her or anything, she still does have a meeting going on that requires her presence. And a messenger that trots back longer than usual.

Aww, that’s too bad. But props to her for making an honest woman out of you.

How do you know, Lena starts to write back. But she catches Krypto from the corner of her eye, sniffing the nearby rolling display stand filled with bread. So she calls him back and flags down a waitress, asks for some dog treats that the cafe luckily sells being a pet friendly place.

The conference call has honestly become the farthest thing on her mind now, having long lost interest the minute it started. Jess sees it too, so she begins steering the conversation towards the last bullet point on their agenda, even though she has to skip quite a few others.

With Krypto fed and looking particularly pleased about it, Lena returns to the reply she’s half written, finishing it so that it reads: How do you know it’s not a he?

She sends the dog back to his owner with two more treats. He reappears at Lena’s side after a few beats, bearing what Lena thinks is the last of her and the woman’s correspondence.

Just a feeling :)

…

The meeting finally ends just shy of an hour and five minutes, much to Lena’s utmost relief, with a follow-up that’s set to three weeks away from tomorrow.

(She might just give Jess a raise solely for that.)

Lena pushes her laptop to a close, clutching it against her chest as she gets to her feet. Krypto follows her dutifully, and together, they make their way out of the cafe and towards the table Lena has previously vacated.

The blonde woman is still perched on the same chair, affecting a lazy posture as she continues to lean against the rest. But her arms crossed scream anything but, matched with the way she watches Lena approach, mischief written all over the crinkle in her eyes.

“Hello pretty lady,” the other woman greets, only straightening herself up when Lena draws near and she pulls Lena’s chair for her. “Who is happily married.”

Lena merely laughs in response; hides the affection behind the roll of her eyes. “Yes, that would be me.”

“Is your wife going to be mad if I sit here with you?” Her companion asks. She leans forward a little, Lena pushing the plateful of soggy waffles and the now cold cup of coffee out of her way so that her golden blonde curls don’t get drenched in either coffee or syrup.

“I don’t know, Kara,” Lena answers cheekily. “You tell me.”

“I think she won’t be,” the woman—Kara tells her then. “I think she’d even want you to give me a kiss.”

Lena chuckles at that, her laughter growing when Krypto barks from his new spot, pressed against Lena’s legs, seemingly to agree. “You think, huh? Maybe I should give her a call now and ask.”

“No need,” Kara says, waves a hand in dismissal. “I’m a hundred percent sure about it.”

The other woman hums, biting at her bottom lip to stifle the grin that’s threatening to escape. But she lets it in the end anyway, no longer able to keep up pretenses. 

She takes Kara’s hand and laces their fingers together, her thumb wiping away the traces of soot and ash that Kara has missed. A product of her early morning super duties, and part of the reason why Lena’s getting waffles at the cafe and not making them at home like usual. Lena had needed a walk and some fresh air while she waited for her wife to join her for breakfast.

“You’re in a very playful mood today, honey,” Lena tells her then.

“I just watched you tell those, and I quote, bumbling idiots, that they’re not achieving anything—which was very true, by the way, babe—so of course I’m in a mood.”

Lena raises a brow, her lips tugging up to a haughty smirk. (And, okay, Lena may have called them that under her breath once, perhaps even twice, but no one can blame her, really.) “Is it enough to warrant skipping breakfast?”

Kara sucks at her teeth, pretending to ponder. But ultimately, she scrunches her nose and shakes her head. “I love you, but I’ve been up at four am literally putting out fires with no food to fuel me. So it’s gonna be a pass to skipping, but a definite yes to dessert.”

She watches her wife laugh, her famed dimples popping out, and it’s a very much welcomed change from the crease that had seemingly carved itself on her wife’s forehead the past hour and five minutes. 

Kara basks at that sight and the melodic sound that fills the air, soft, and lovely and genuine; lives for it even, her own heart swelling tenfold when it grows at her next words, “I am dead serious about that kiss, though.”

Lena inches forward, nudging her nose against her wife’s to cross the scant space in between them. And as she presses her lips against Kara’s own, Lena Luthor thinks she no longer hates that morning.

[secondratefiction]

Hi! Just an idea. I'd love anything with Roy Harper. Maybe a Roy x batsis where they're broken up but because of the fact that reader and Jason are very close and Roy is his best friend, reader and Roy slowly warm up to each other again and end up together?? Maybe some overprotective brother Jason? :) Love u!

-It had been for the most part and amicable break up. At least as little fall out as the end of a relationship could bring.

-Now granted things could still get a little awkward if just the two of you were left alone together; but over all you and Roy were fine.

-And then there was the fight with Dick. And you decided that any awkwardness that might come from cohabiting with your ex was a WAY better alternative to having to look at your brother's stupid face.

- Also, you were way less likely to give into the urge to punch Roy in the face right now.

- Jason of course was thrilled to have you staying. He didn't see you nearly enough since you moved back into the manor.

- Honestly, you fit in so well with the two of them it was almost comical

- Didn't matter how smart the two of them were, they had one collective brain cell, and after you got there, you were mainly the one in charge of it.

- Things only really took a turn one night when Roy came back early. Alone and bloody.

- Some wise guy got lucky with a busted bottle, and you spent the better part of an hour digging out shards of glass and stitching him up.

- Lecturing him the whole time, of course.

"Careful Y/N, someone might get the impression you still care about me."

You glowered up at him and pinched his thigh, "I never stopped caring, ass."

- Roy only hummed noncommittally but stayed quiet from there and let you work.

- Things even went back to normal for a while... well as normal as can be anyway

- ... except... Jason seemed to be a lot more on edge not that long after.

- You thought he was just getting antsy and was thinking about changing safe houses again. But almost a week later that still hadn't happened, so...

- After a very long game of "it's not that big of a deal"/"don't bullshit me" J finally breaks down and admits he's noticed Roy staring at you again "like before"

- You're not entirely sure what to do with that information, but Jason's not happy at all

"Look, I known you two say you're ok, but I was the one dealing with the crying and the 3 am phone calls. I don't want to see either of you like that again, and I don't want to have to pick sides."

▪︎the 'it would be you' is silently implied

- And that's when you start to notice it: subconsciously, you and Roy are slipping back into some very domestic habits...

▪︎handing eachother things you need right as or almost before they ask

▪︎picking up snacks and stuff you know the other likes, even if you're not all that fond of it

▪︎Short-hand communication that the two of you understand perfectly, but leaves Jason confused, out of the loop, and slowly growing annoyed with the both of you.

- By the end of your third week there you're begging to wonder if it might be better for all people envolved if you just pack up and go home... this has turned into incredibly murky territory.

[dextervexter]

dc for the fandom ask? or lackadaisy perhaps??

-breathing hysterically through paper bag-

-swallows paper bag and starts choking-

For DC I'm literally just gonna be picking and choosing the characters based on whatever DC property I've been circling like a shark so

blorbo (favorite character, character I think about the most)

Will Harper My Fucking Beloved....

scrunkly (my “baby”, character that gives me cuteness aggression, character that is So Shaped)

Roy Harper specifically from Teen Titans Issue #48 "Wrong Place Wrong Time" this version has only shown up in exactly one issue and he's only in like ten panels but the design is 👌👌👌 and his bastard vibes are impeccable

scrimblo bimblo (underrated/underappreciated fave)

Kaldur. I'm saying he'd underappreciated because I genuinely think he goes through it the most and he is so brave about it. no one is ever asking ".....buddy are you like...okay?" instead I have to just kind of assume he is :( his story lines are always very complicated and he never leaves the plot as the same person. I think he's demonstrated the most growth, and I'm really bitter I didn't get to see it.

glup shitto (obscure fave, character that can appear in the background for 0.2 seconds and I won’t shut up about it for a week)

Lightning from Teen Titans. he's been My Child for like...almost fifteen years. He's also the only character I've kept pretty much every piece of art I've ever made for him over the years. I've even kept the goth AU fanfics...

poor little meow meow (“problematic”/unpopular/controversial/otherwise pathetic fave)

Slobo from the original YJ comic series. apparently he wasn't a fan favorite which lead to him being unceremoniously written out/killed very suddenly at the end of the series. so like obviously I'm okay with shouldering the burden of loving this clearly excellent character. honestly I loved how uninvested he was in the team drama, but the moment someone asked him to help with something important, he was all in, no matter how dangerous or illegal. he was an ass too but he genuinely did care about the team and that was cute

horse plinko (character I would torment for fun, for whatever reason)

Captain Super Jr. (Freddie Freeman) Earth 3. this guy is literally just a walking pile of violence and rage. all he does for the literal five minutes of screen time he has is beat the shit out of everyone and then go to jail. I love this guy. I can't describe it properly but his vibes are that he has no friends, tips poorly, and listens to hyperpop but not because it's good it enrages him and he wants to be angry so he can punch more.

I've written like...several plots about what happens to him after being left behind just because I find him and incredibly interesting concept but also....I just wanna make him sad because it's easy and fun

eeby deeby (character I would send to superhell)

Earth 3 Lex Luthor.....like and subscribe to slap his stupid bald head....

I don't know why but I want to study him like a bug. I'm not proud of it. So I'm taking it out on him

[crypticbeliever123]

For the fake geek boys who don't get it:

Arrow basically rewrote Oliver's entire personality into a brooding grimdark persona as opposed to his quippy lighthearted comics persona.

The Joker is just an amoral sadist/anarchist and not complex at all considering he just does stuff for shits, giggles, and pissing off Batman.

Superman, although cheesy at times, is not dumb and has actually been portrayed as incredibly intelligent depending on what comics you look to, and is a rather complex and well-developed character.

Batman literally has a BatFAMILY that he works with. See: Dick Grayson aka Nightwing aka Robin number 1, Jason Todd aka Red Hood aka Robin number 2, Tim Drake aka Red Robin (ignoring the Bendis YJ comics) aka Robin number 3, Barbara Gordon aka Oracle aka Batgirl number 1, Stephanie Brown aka Spoiler aka Robin number 4 aka Batgirl number 2 (or 3, I'm not sure if Cass took up the mantle first or not after Babs), Damian Wayne aka Robin number 5, Cassandra Cain aka Batgirl number 3 (or 2, again not sure if Steph had the name before her) aka Black Bat aka Orphan (most people dislike this name because she was adopted by Bruce pre-Flashpoint and is thus undeserving of the name Orphan), Kate Kane aka Batwoman, Luke Fox aka Batwing, Duke Thomas aka Signal and I think he went by Robin for a little bit during this whole Robin army thing, Harper Row aka Bluebird, and last but certainly not least Alfred Pennyworth aka the most badass butler on the planet! And there's probably people I'm missing. Seriously! Bruce hasn't worked alone since early 1940 back when Robin and the rest of them didn't exist! And Batman was created in 1939! He was a solo act for like a year at most!

Robin isn't stupid as a character because you have a large and ever-growing number of variants to pick from and analyze from goofy circus dork Dick Grayson to far too serious for a 10 year old vegan murderer with a soft spot for animals. Now as a concept I suppose you could argue that the revolving door of Robins is a bit dumb and that letting a kid join you in your crusade against criminals is stupid BUT Bruce does his best to keep them safe and Robin has only become a legacy after Jason's death because Bruce didn't want another Robin after that but Tim Stubborn-as-hell-and-even-smarter Drake pushed and pleaded and begged him to take him on as Robin because he couldn't convince Dick to take the job back and was thoroughly convinced Bruce needed a Robin for his own wellbeing and things spiraled from there.

Cassandra Cain is the daughter of David Cain and Lady Shiva-(she is regarded as the best combatant in the entire DC universe) who was taught violence as her first language deprived of speech, writing, and also sign language (I think) who thus learned to read people like open books and upon being forced to kill at a young age saw death through the eyes of her victim just from reading their body language and was horrified and vowed to never kill again. Eventually she became Barbara's apprentice and was later taken in by Bruce as the new Batgirl and member of the ever-growing Wayne family, slowly learning how to speak and read. She's my favorite Batgirl and I haven't even read a lot of her appearances yet.

As I said before there's been like 5 Robins not counting alternate realities such as Carrie Kelly in the Dark Knight Returns storyline, or future timelines such as Matt McGinnis in the recent Batman Beyond comics (for a brief time, he quit pretty early because the Joker kidnapped him and his brother, the Batman of the era, didn't want him to be in danger anymore and had only agreed to let his brother be Robin because he didn't trust Bruce not to undermine his decision on the matter and figured keeping him close would be better than risking him going on a solo patrol)

Aquaman is far from useless. He's literally king of 75% of the planet's surface, can control sea monsters (it ain't just fish people, seriously he controlled a Kraken in his movie), has super strength and durability arguably on par with Superman, commands the entire army of Atlantis (which goes all WW3 against the Amazons in the Flashpoint timeline, yeah they go to to toe with Wonder Woman's people and can actually hold their own against them; I think they lose but still). He's half human half Atlantean and serves as the bridge between the land and sea. I could go on but if the Aquaman movie didn't convince you chumps how much of a badass he is nothing will.

I have nothing to say on the Miller-gasm front.

Alan Scott, Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, Kyle Rayner, Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz, Sojourner "Jo" Mullein, Jade aka Jennifer Lynn-Hayden, Tai Pham, etc. Google those names with the words "Green Lantern" for more details.

Comic books were invented by Jewish men and immigrants and were born in social justice and politics. Captain America punches Hitler on the cover of his very first appearance, Superman fights the KKK in an early issue, etc. Literally they have never not been political or social and if you want to read something without it, well ditch comics but buddy boy this ain't the genre for your triggered ass. Yeah. I went there, snowflake.

I'm not sure about the adaptation one because even the comics sometimes ruin the characters. See: any comic where Batman assaults his own children for proof.

I have neither seen nor read Watchmen and probably never will so I'm going to skip this one. That said, from what I know of the plot I can appreciate the fact it let its villain be smart and trigger doomsday before monologuing.

Batwoman may have been invented to make Batman seem less gay and pedophilic (people thought he and Robin were sleeping together in early comics) but she has been an out and proud lesbian since they introduced her new incarnation Kate Kane in 2006 who is a Jewish lesbian cousin of Bruce on his mother's side of the family, meaning Bruce himself is also Jewish fyi.

He literally has had biological children with her in a number of timelines and realities the most prominent being the New52 Jon Lane-Kent and Rebirth comics Jon Samuel Kent. They wouldn't exist if he couldn't have sex with Lois.

Imma say this once so listen closely. She-Hulk is the Hulk's COUSIN! SHE ALWAYS HAS BEEN! Her first appearance introduces her as such and then he gives her a blood transfusion transforming her into She-Hulk!

Not all teen heroes are sidekicks. See: the original teen hero not to be a sidekick, Peter Parker aka Spider-man (he's not a teen anymore), as well as Ms. Marvel, Wiccan, Hulkling, Miss America, Miles Morales aka Spider-man, Kitty Pryde (she works in a team and unless I'm mistaken is not treated as just a tag along so she counts in my book), the first Captain Marvel aka Billy Batson (yes DC had the name first), Superboy (he was a solo hero in his first appearances prior to the formation of Young Justice and I'm pretty sure has never fallen into sidekick territory with Superman following his return from the grave), Nova aka Sam Alexander, Squirrel Girl (I think. She's a teen, right?), etc (meaning I don't want to name anymore)

None of the Robins are copies of Batman, and not just because they don't have Bat in their name. Dick is funny and goofy and lighthearted. Jason is sassy and willing to do things Bruce wouldn't such as kill. Tim is far more trusting of the people he works with. Damian has had to fight every instinct he's been brought up with to kill and still struggles with it, he also has less empathy for other people than Bruce does. I don't know enough about Stephanie to write a comparison here. I also don't know enough about the Flash fam and their personalities to do comparisons there. Roy Harper aka Speedy aka Red Arrow aka Arsenal is a bit more aggro and less responsible (See: the story arc where he does heroin) than Oliver Queen aka Green Arrow. Like, just because a lot of sidekicks have similar names to the heroes they work with doesn't make them copies of the heroes. It just means writers back then were either lazy or were too preoccupied with making the names mesh well in a team uniformy kind of way to be original.

Founding members of the Avengers in the comics: WASP, Iron Man, Ant-Man, Thor, and Hulk. (Yes, Captain America was not a founding member. He joined in issue 4)

Wasp became a hero to avenge her father's death. She wasn't even married to Hank at first.

Batgirl was only turned into a love interest by the animated series to explain the falling out with Nightwing in a really terrible way. She has otherwise never been romantically involved with Bruce, not a single version and there have been at least three to my knowledge and most if not all of them began as teenagers.

Barbara became Oracle following the Killing Joke, using her intellect and computer skills to take down crime and found the Birds of Prey to break down even more criminal rings.

No comment on Rorschach. Again never read or watched Watchmen.

I'm not even sure what that point means.

The Amazons don't truly hate anyone. What's that Wonder Woman saying? "We have a saying, my people. 'Don't kill if you can wound, don't wound if you can subdue, don't subdue if you can pacify, and don't raise your hand until you've first extended it."' - Wonder Woman #25 (2008), script by Gail Simone. Does that sound like something a man-hater would say? To extend a hand first to all? Nope. It's not. Men may not be their favorite people but they don't hate them.

Joker abused and manipulated Harley into loving him. See: Batman episode "Mad Love". She eventually dumps Joker, breaking free of his physically, mentally, and emotionally abusive grasp. Ivy is also her girlfriend in numerous storylines and they tend to be a much healthier relationship overall.

That is all.

How to spot a fake geek boy:

thinks Arrow is the best thing ever

is obsessed with the Joker

thinks Superman is dumb/shit talks Superman