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stxleslyds · 3 years ago

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Hi I love reading your answers!

I’m trying to read as much comics as I can and I kind of have mixed opinions on Jason’s run after he resurrected, I feel like there were some writers that took advantage of his “supernatural psychosis” and made him look too crazy. There are a few writers I definitely don’t like like Lobdell (and a few others I forgot at the moment) but when he was written during that era it kind of feels like they forgot that he has his own moral code despite the Lazarus Pit effecting him? Would the Lazarus Pit effect him THAT much that it would cloud his judgement and make him act against what he believes in? I’m not really sure if I will still feel this way later but I’m just curious what your thoughts are? Jason is still one of my fav DC characters tho lol

Hey Anon, I am glad you enjoy my answers!

I have some sort of complicated news, the Lazarus Pit and what it is able to actually do has been modified plenty, by both DC and fanon. For example, the pit cannot bring people back from the dead (there is an exception but that pit can only bring one person back to life, but that one has nothing to do with Jason), what the pit does is regenerate and heal all wounds, physical and mental. The Lazarus Pit doesn’t make anyone immortal just because they took a dip in them, Ra’s kind of immortal because he bathes in Lazarus Pit water frequently and that keeps him “young”.

Now another side effect that has been heavily distorted by fandom is the “Lazarus Pit Madness” which I believe is what you are referring to when you said “supernatural psychosis”. The real name of the side effect is called “Lazarus Pit Rage” and its temporary and is suffered immediately after getting out of the Pit, it doesn’t last long, it is like hyper reaction to a stamina shot and is often depicted in comics by having however comes out of the pit screaming and making angry faces.

There are two versions of how Jason came out of the Lazarus Pit after being pushed. In Batman Annual #25 (1940), Jason was depicted as screaming as he took his first breath and in Red Hood: The Lost Days #1, he was depicted as emerging from the pit like a sort of angel, there was no screaming.

If he were to have felt the side effects of the Lazarus Pit rage, he would have felt them right there, whether he experienced that or not isn’t clear, in both issues that I mentioned above, as fast as Jason comes out of the pit, Talia takes him away and makes him run away because Ra’s wanted to kill Jason.

What we see though, in both issues, is Jason starting to remember his past life after he has contact with information about Batman, Robin or Joker. Jason had no memories or very few because he suffered brain damage when he died and when he came back, he was in a coma and then in a semi-vegetative state. His memories come back only if something triggers a memory.

Batman Annual #25

Red Hood: The Lost Days #1

When the memory of his death, the Joker and Batman was triggered he became enraged because Joker was still alive and Batman had another Robin. Whether this is due to the pit rage or just Jason having very strong feelings is debatable. I believe Jason’s memories triggering after being dormant for so long and them being so violent and hurtful is more than enough for Jason to react in a violent and sporadic way. So, if you ask me, there is no pit rage involved at that time, but maybe others think differently.

Writers like Tony Daniel (Battle for the Cowl) and Grant Morrison (Batman and Robin) wrote Jason like a crazy, bloodthirsty villain. If they wanted to blame Jason’s actions on the pit rage, they never made that clear (maybe I don’t remember correctly), the way I see it none of those writers really know what or who Jason and Red Hood were supposed to be so they wrote the most OOC characterizations of Jason to this date.

Lobdell is a weir case because he never took the time to explain anything, we just know that he changed everything including how the Lazarus Pit actually works. Lobdell wrote his story by making Talia taking Jason’s dead body and putting him in a pit in order to bring him back to life (once again that’s not how those work) and after Jason came out of the pit, Talia immediately took Jason to the All-Castle so he could be trained by Ducra.

So having said all that I will actually answer your questions now (sorry for always rambling way too much).

“…but when he was written during that era it kind of feels like they forgot that he has his own moral code despite the Lazarus Pit affecting him?”

No, they didn’t forget, it was just bad writing, at that point in time the Lazarus Pit would have had no effect on Jason. The pit rage happens immediately after you get out of the pit and during the events of Battle for the Cowl and Batman and Robin (volume 1), Jason had been back in the land of the living for more than two years.

In Lobdell’s case, he has written Jason as being angry after he trained with Ducra but Lobdell himself credited that to Jason being “and angry little pup”, “reckless”, and “not being able to see his full potential”.

Jason’s moral code disappeared after UtRH, and was brought back again when Winick wrote Lost Days in 2010. We sort of saw a glimpse of that moral code in Urban Legends: Cheer #6 by Chip Zdarsky but it was surrounded by very weird writing, maybe if we are lucky Rosenberg will pick up on that moral code when he writes Jason next.

“Would the Lazarus Pit affect him THAT much that it would cloud his judgement and make him act against what he believes in?”

Absolutely not. Because the pit rage is temporary and because Jason was feeling anger from his very own feelings and even while feeling that way Jason still fought for what he believed in when he killed one of his teachers that was running a child trafficking operation in Red Hood: The Lost Days #3.

He felt angry and all that but he was functioning properly anyways, he trained and he had his own thoughts, he was in complete control of himself.

Those are all my thoughts I hope they came out a little bit comprehensible, its really hard for me to answer questions in a short and simple way, I have to fix that…

What comics have you read? I recommend Arkham Knight: Genesis by Peter Tomasi if you ever want to read an alternate universe version of Jason (it has nothing to do with comics, it is based on the lore of the Arkham games).

And hell yes! Jason is amazing even if he has a complicated history with bad writers. Jason Nation! whoop whoop!

I hope this answer was enjoyable, and that you have a wonderful week!

#jason todd #red hood #red hood lost days #utrh #jason nation #dc comics #asksss #lazarus pit

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toujourspur13 · 4 years ago

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The Black family / Walburga Black / canon.

As I said before I do not care that much about canon/fanon/headcanon because transformative works by definition include a wide variety of different interpretations. However, I am forever perplexed when I see uncompromising opinions on the Black family - particularly the unwavering certainty that Sirius Black’s parents were psychotic abusers. All personal opinions aside - why is this so popular?

I mean - it’s absolutely ok to headcanon this version and to play with it - but saying 'don’t you dare say they did not physically and emotionally abuse Sirius' is a little strong, isn’t it?

This is a mystery to me. So…let’s discuss my favourite subject…Again.

Let’s stick to the facts. The frequently cited things proving the abuse in the Black family are as follows:

Sirius said his parents were awful maniacs (pureblood ideology)

he ran away from home

he was severely depressed in OoTP

Kreacher

Portrait

So…when you say that Sirius’s parents were abusive…you mean exactly what? These people got cold feet when they saw the real nature of Voldemort - I guess it somehow implies that they did not share his methods…that they were against violence as a tool to get purebloods in charge.

But then it usually goes this way: ‘well at least he was verbally and emotionally abused by his family’ - but is it so? Is this based on the portrait of Sirius's mother? She insulted strangers who took over her house and her runaway son - how does this prove anything about how Sirius and Regulus were raised and treated when they were kids? I agree it’s rather impolite - jkr did a good job showing how purebloods perceived others ( those below them) -but in all honesty, this has very little to do with Sirius and his childhood.

Why to make Sirius a victim at all? - c’mon he was tougher than this, he spent 12 years in Azkaban; are you actually saying that a portrait throwing insults at everyone is worse? I doubt that. And is it such a surprise that a mother who lost her son (that said son actually ran away and abandoned his duty) would be that furious at him when seeing him again...even if it’s only a portrait...I believe it to be a rather unpleasant experience for a parent when a child runs away.

We already talked about the portrait a lot - I don’t even want to mention it here- - I feel we should rather pay more attention to the fact that Sirius himself was not an angel.

I am not saying the colourful vocabulary of Walburga Black should be used…but Sirius himself upon seeing Snape immediately recognised his weakness and went for it without any hesitation …we are talking about Sirius who in fact was quite a renowned bully ( I mean - we know for a fact that from time to time Sirius and James got carried away)…

And it was Sirius who sent Snape to meet and chat with a real werewolf (yes, I agree - he was not thinking this through - he probably was just vexed and fed up with Snape and thought he wouldn’t go there, would get cold feet or idk run away…But it actually changes nothing. If a drunken driver hits someone it will be 100% his fault whether he means it or not. Whether he is in a fragile mental state or not - such situations are definite. It’s the same with Sirius - even if he did not mean anything bad he should have understood the cost of his mistake - all teenagers make silly things but not all of them send their classmate to meet a werewolf - James thought it not a very good idea as I recall… -

So we see that Sirius was not an angel from the start and I can hardly believe he was a victim by nature. His behaviour loudly manifested that he used to get what he wanted with no thought of the consequences.

And all those pictures of bikini-clad girls on the walls in his room prove that he was quite a spoiled boy who had nothing to fear from mum and dad. Harry himself noticed «Sirius seemed to have gone out of his way to annoy his parents». All this shows that Sirius was not afraid of his parents at all. What kind of masochist would suffer for motorbike posters? That would be ridiculous.

Let’s move to Kreacher: If Sirius’s mother had been a monster why even mention her heart? JKR wrote this for a purpose and this heavily implies that Sirius's situation was never meant to be ‘the abusive heartless parents vs the poor helpless victim’.

The fact that Sirius ran away and hence broke his mother’s heart says against the popular idea that he was not loved by his family, that he was always the second one, that they abused him. I’m 100% certain that Kreacher told the truth in that scene. Why would he say something like this if it were not the truth - something like…that his beloved mistress having been so upset over Sirius running away that it broke her heart. Just tell me one reason that would have justified such a lie - why to say this at all?

Then this: “Leave?” Sirius smiled bitterly and ran a hand through his long, unkempt hair. “Because I hated the whole lot of them: my parents, with their pure-blood mania, convinced that to be a Black made you practically royal … my idiot brother, soft enough to believe them … that’s him.”…. “He was younger than me,” said Sirius, “and a much better son, as I was constantly reminded.”

I’ve already said it before - this ‘better son than me’ is exactly what insecure 14-year old kids like to say. Well...he’s a bit older but it’s not as if he had a life and a chance to mature. Moreover, I don’t know if it comes as a great shock but a lot of teenagers like to badmouth their parents…usually, it involves something like ‘those bloody uptight retrogrades know nothing of the real world’ (it fades away when they get closer to thirty).

To be serious, I find that it’s just another example of similarities between Sirius and his mother. They clearly did not know what it means to be composed, polite, and respectful. Yeah…I think that, on the whole, parents are owed their children’s respect (unless they are completely inadequate - somehow I don’t believe this was the case). Someone should teach both of them what mutual respect means. Anyway, there is nothing in this quote that says that Sirius was subjected to any forms of abuse - it’s about how Sirius justified his running away, how he saw the situation.

There’s also the fact that Sirius was incredibly unhappy because he was back at his childhood home and having to spend time around anything that reminded him of his family: “Hasn’t anyone told you? This was my parents’ house,” said Sirius. “But I’m the last Black left, so it’s mine now. I offered it to Dumbledore for headquarters — about the only useful thing I’ve been able to do.” Harry, who had expected a better welcome, noted how hard and bitter Sirius’s voice sounded”.

Here it comes…the severe depression that makes people question the severity of his abuse… I have thought a lot about this because it is the reason why some consider ‘the abusive blacks' canon while others believe it was more of a tragedy of the family rather than the banal brutality.

Of course, Sirius was upset in that house - but I don’t think he suffered the memories of his unhappy childhood - I think he suffered from the strong feeling of guilt. Being in that house meant an everyday reminder that he was a failure. And it’s not even a lie. If you look at his whole life you’ll see that he literally failed everyone in his life: he failed James and Lily - they were dead and he unwillingly became the reason. It was his plan that turned everything into a tragedy.

And, to some extent, he failed Harry- he was not around him like James and Lily would have wanted. Sirius did not give him the real family - he only promised they'd be the one «when it’s all over».

And finally - he failed his parents, his brother, his own family.

Is it possible to live with so much guilt in your heart?

I don't think that Sirius completely forgot who he was born to be. If the family keeps traditions and can trace its existence back in centuries you can't shake it off even if you want. I doubt Sirius switched it off just because he had griffindor friends. He was the last Black - it is tragically poetic that he was once the hope of his family and then this family died with him. If Sirius had heart (and I truly believe he had a heart) he knew exactly what it meant to be trapped in the house that represented the death of his family. A constant reminder that he was the last one.

“The others’ hushed voices were giving Harry an odd feeling of foreboding; it was as though they had just entered the house of a dying person”.

I think that the scene when he threw his father's ring away - he threw it away because it was all over for his family. It was the end of the dynasty - and for him it was all over long before he met Bellatrix for the last time.

Well, I admit Sirius' situation is open for wide interpretation but I don’t think the abusive black household is a canon thing - of course, it’s fanon. It makes Sirius a hero who broke the chains when in fact he ended up being a victim of his own life.

You know, it always seems strange to me that fandom when discussing Walburga usually overlooks the simple truth of life - that even if you are clever enough and mean good for your loved ones it is still possible to end up on the losing side, on the dark side. However, mistakes don't automatically turn humans into monsters.

To some extent Sirius’s story represents the consequences of war. No-one is protected; the whole families could be wiped off the face of the earth. It’s a simple yet profound idea. It correlates with the main idea of hp books far better than the ‘abusive psychopaths’ (there are already Voldemort and Bellatrix - there is no-one who can beat them in this department).

All I say - it’s okay to imagine them bad if you want- your right - but don’t write everywhere that it’s canon because it is not.There is no need for such inflexibility especially when it comes to the fandom - a place where everyone should be welcomed and their views on the books be respected.

#the noble and most ancient house of black #hp meta #harry potter #sirius black meta #walburga black #orion black #regulus black #harry potter meta #Order of the Phoenix #Sirius Black

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panharmonium · 5 years ago

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(1/3) Heya! A while back you were discussing Morgana's character and Merlin's relationship with her WRT magic and mentioned "gaslighting." I know for myself when I refer to Merlin gaslighting her it's not in regards to him not outing himself, but that 1) Pre 2X03 he goes along with Gaius in pretending to not believe that her visions are true and giving her the sleeping draughts. And Post 2X03, after reassuring her that they're still friends, he just doesn't really talk to her again until 2X12.

Hi! So, I will preface this by saying that I normally don't have a chance to respond to asks in this much depth, but luckily I had some free time over the past couple of days, and there's nothing I like better than writing incessantly about Merlin, so I took the liberty of doing a deep dive. :)

My impression (because these asks don't actually include a particular question for me to answer) is that I'm being asked to expand/defend my own analysis from my original post with regard to the above points. And I'll be honest and say that I won't always do that for folks on demand, because I really am of the school of thought that I don't write meta to convince anybody of something or "prove" a point - I really am just talking to myself in my own room for fun, and it isn't important to me to make a case to anybody who would rather approach from a different angle. Like - if we’re on different pages, it’s chill; I don’t feel a need to discuss it or like...change someone’s mind. (In all seriousness, I really have just been writing these things for myself and a couple of friends. Prior to three days ago, when some kind of a bizarre surge happened, I had no followers who were here specifically for Merlin.)

But there are definitely some things referenced in these messages that I do have strong opinions about (though as I always say, that doesn't mean anyone is obligated to agree with me!) And since I have the free time and am actually interested in this topic, I figured I'd try to address these things one by one (though I can't promise to do so in order.)

I'll put everything under a cut, because this did get quite long.

disclaimer: as always, whenever I write meta: these are just my own thoughts, and I don’t expect anyone to share them. If we are on different pages, feel free to scroll past and keep having fun in whatever way is most enjoyable to you!

1) “after reassuring her that they're still friends, he just doesn't really talk to her again until 2X12″

So first, I have to pose a question.

Why does this say "[Merlin] just doesn't really talk to her again" after 2.03?

Specifically, that framing.

Merlin doesn't talk to her again.

Because what actually happens, from 2.03-2.10, in an objective, this-is-what-we-see-onscreen way, is this: Merlin defies Gaius and tells Morgana that he believes she has magic. He sends her to the Druids so they can help her, tries to distract the attacking knights so she can escape from Camelot with the Druids permanently, and, when that fails, he makes sure to come to Morgana's room and tell her that he supports her and her secret is safe with him.

Then, from 2.04 through 2.10, they don't have screen time together.

Not "Merlin just doesn't talk to her."

They don't have screen time together. You could say "Morgana just doesn't talk to him" and it would be just as true.

But somehow we immediately frame our discussion of this as Merlin not doing something. And that is what I am pushing back against.

Merlin takes massive risks to help Morgana in 2.03. He makes it very clear that he is there for her and he will never tell her secret, and Morgana, for her part, is shown to be very appreciative of that. It's clear that she trusts him and believes him. They part on a very positive note, at the end of 2.03.

Why, then, do we automatically frame the objective, unattributable-to-any-one-character fact that they don't interact onscreen after that as being somehow a failing on Merlin's part? Why do we frame the simple fact that "they have no scenes together" as something for which we can lay blame? (On Merlin, of course. Never on Morgana.)

It's not as if we see Morgana reaching out and failing to get a response. From 2.04-2.10, there are zero scenes of Morgana trying to approach Merlin and being rebuffed. There are no scenes of Morgana wishing for guidance and being turned away. And, with the exception of the Witchfinder episode (where Merlin already does literally everything in his power to expose this dangerous man and protect Morgana from his machinations) Morgana is not, in fact, shown to be getting "more and more freaked out and isolated."

I want to pause and address that, because I know we've all sort of...collectively decided to imagine that this is what happened (because as a fandom we've tried to just fill in with fanon what feels like a blank left by the writers), but onscreen, in terms of the source material: it is false to say that “in the background you kind of see Morgana get more and more freaked out and isolated as the season progresses.” It just doesn’t happen.

With the exception of "The Witchfinder," Morgana is never shown to be having any inner conflicts about her magic, not until 2.11. Episodes 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 - absolutely nothing. There is one scene in 2.08 where she mentions having trouble sleeping, but then that issue is immediately resolved for her when Morgause gives her the healing bracelet and cures her nightmares. There are no scenes of Morgana worrying about her magic. No scenes of her needing help. No scenes referencing her position as a person who is struggling with being a secret magic-user. No scenes referencing her magic at all, in fact. She is not shown to be getting more and more freaked out and isolated; rather she appears to have integrated back into her old life, comfortable now in the knowledge of who and what she is. It’s like what she told Merlin at the end of 2.03: "I know now who I really am. And it isn't something to be scared of. Maybe one day people will come to see magic as a force for good."

And we can of course debate whether that was really an appropriate writing decision, to have Morgana be fine, fine, fine, until suddenly we hit 2.11 and it's like, 'oh, suddenly not fine,' but we also can't evaluate or judge Merlin based on a fanon image of what we imagine was happening in Season 2. We can only evaluate him based on what actually happens onscreen (whether we feel like it was well-written or not), and what actually happens onscreen is that minus her fear in The Witchfinder, which Merlin already takes decisive actions to address, Morgana is not shown to be distressed or isolated or conflicted until we hit 2.11.

She appears, as far as Merlin and the audience can see, to be doing just fine.

I’ve got to be clear on this: "Merlin just doesn't really talk to her again" is a loaded sentence, when the phenomenon we're really trying to describe is "Merlin and Morgana have no scenes together." It inherently assigns responsibility, agency, and blame for any non-interaction to Merlin, when there is nothing in canon to support that framing.

If Morgana wants to talk to Merlin, she can come talk to him. She knows Merlin is on her side. She is shown to trust and appreciate Merlin without reservation at the end of 2.03. And even if she had been shown to be spiraling into a bad place in 2.04-2.10 (which, as discussed above, is not the case) she could have come to Merlin at any time. It is literally not Merlin's responsibility to pursue Morgana and press her to talk to him. He has done his due diligence. He makes sure she knows he is on her side, that he supports her, that he believes her, that he will never reveal her secret. And she is shown to believe him when he says that. If she needs him, she knows she can approach him. And if she chooses not to do that - then that is on her.

This is a tough pill for even the in-universe characters to swallow, but Merlin is not responsible for the well-being of every single person in Camelot. It is not his job to make sure that every single person in his orbit is 100% okay at all times. It is not his job to read his friends' minds, or anticipate every single one of their needs, or to offer himself to them constantly, repeatedly, every time he has a spare moment, especially when they seem (like Morgana from 2.04 to 2.10) to be doing well. Merlin has already been placed in a position where he is expected to devote almost all of his energy to serving someone else's interests. When we expect him to also worry about and monitor and manage the health and happiness of all the other people around him, we are perpetuating the same damaging narrative for which we criticize characters like Kilgharrah, Gaius, etc - that everything is on Merlin, and if he can’t manage to juggle it all, then the negative consequences that ensue are his fault.

A personal illustration of how this would play out in real life:

I live with my sister. I am a pretty stoic person. And when something is the matter, I sometimes don't tell her about it. I just pretend like everything is fine. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that she would listen to me and support me if I ever came to her with a problem, but sometimes I don't do that. And if that’s the choice I make, then that’s fine, but I have to take responsibility for it. It's not okay for me to get angry and BLAME her for not helping me, when I never gave her any indication that I needed help in the first place.

So - flipping the narrative, what if we reframed the original statement to an equally loaded but equally accurate “post 2.03, Morgana just doesn't talk to Merlin.” The two of them go through a harrowing experience together, where Merlin takes deadly risks to try to help Morgana escape Camelot and find her true self, where he offers his continuing support to her after it's over, and then she just never takes him up on that offer. She retreats back into her comfortable position as Uther's noble ward, and stops associating with Arthur's lowly servant. When Merlin helps save Gwen from the bandits in 2.04, Morgana never thanks him. When Merlin is framed for theft by Catrina and hunted down, she doesn't stand up for him or try to help him. When Gaius is arrested and tortured by the Witchfinder, she never stops by to see how Merlin is doing and check if he's okay. When she's approached by a total stranger who wants her to steal a "weapon" for him, she doesn’t talk to Merlin at all, but rather agrees to steals the Crystal of Neahtid without ANY understanding of what it actually does or what Alvarr's plans are for it, leaving Merlin completely in the dark about why she's suddenly sneaking around acting so strange and suspicious.

Think back to Season One. When Gwen is accused of sorcery and sentenced to death, Merlin confesses himself in order to save her. Despite enjoying none of the protections Morgana has as Uther’s ward, Merlin still confesses himself in order to protect a friend. But when Merlin is accused of sorcery in 2.07 (and when Gaius is then sentenced to be executed), Morgana does nothing comparable. She just lets them take the fall. Merlin allows himself (and Gaius) to be accused, even though he could easily have ratted Morgana out instead, and Morgana, despite knowing that Merlin is keeping silent to protect her at his own expense, never says a word to defend him, or approaches Merlin about it afterwards. She sees Merlin dragged out of the Council Chambers screaming after Gaius is sentenced to death, but she says nothing. She knows Gaius is going to be burnt at the stake, but she does nothing, not even making her usual appeal to Arthur.

Does that mean we should assume that she was being negligent? That she was abandoning Merlin when he needed her most?

For clarity - I'm not saying that the answer to that question is yes. I’m saying that I’ve never seen anybody assign intention/bad faith to Morgana when it comes to her non-interaction with Merlin from 2.04 to 2.10 (even though that particular read is actually far more justified by the text). There is no reason to assign intention to Merlin, either.

Ultimately, I just want us to be aware that saying “Merlin just doesn’t really talk to her again” inherently assigns agency and blame to an agentless fact. Morgana and Merlin not being on screen together from 2.04 to 2.10 =/= "Merlin just doesn't really talk to her." The phrase "Morgana just doesn't really talk to him" is an equally true statement, but one we don't hear nearly as often, because in the Merlin-verse, everything is Merlin's responsibility. And therefore, when there’s a problem, everything is Merlin's fault.

2) “pre 2X03 he goes along with Gaius in pretending to not believe that her visions are true giving her the sleeping draughts”

Okay, this is just my own opinion, but - I personally think it is unreasonable for us to expect Merlin to correct every single bad choice that the people around him make, and it's unfair to transfer the blame for other people's choices onto his shoulders.

If Gaius is making bad choices prior to 2.03, then they are Gaius's bad choices. Merlin, in 1.07, has just arrived in Camelot within the last couple of months. Gaius has lived in Camelot all his life, and has been dealing with Morgana for two decades and Uther for longer than that. Gaius is a trained physician. He is in a position of authority over Merlin, and he has far more experience with the royal family than Merlin does, and when he tells Merlin that the safest thing for Morgana right now is to help her sleep through the night without having potentially-prophetic nightmares, of course Merlin listens to him.

But five minutes into 2.03, immediately after Merlin learns that Morgana actually has magic (not just dream-visions, which this show states to be a separate gift) he is arguing with Gaius, saying that "you need to be honest with her." At the fifteen minute mark, he is in Morgana's chambers telling her how to find the Druids.

I cannot get on board with transferring blame that belongs to other people and dumping it all on Merlin's overburdened shoulders. He directly defies Gaius's orders so that he can help Morgana, as soon as it becomes apparent how serious her situation is. He leads Camelot's army on a chase through the woods in an attempt to help her run away, putting himself at extreme personal risk to do so. How would he explain that, if he were caught? If he were seen?

He does more to help her with her gift than anyone, and he puts himself at risk of discovery and execution to do it. The standards to which we hold him, and the number of responsibilities we expect him to assume, and the ways we hold him accountable for choices that other people in positions of power have made, even when he ultimately corrects their mistakes - are impossibly unreasonable, and they certainly aren't the same standards we use to evaluate Morgana’s actions.

3) “while I don't think Merlin owed outing himself to anyone IMO was a really nasty undercurrent in the writing of ‘crazy/hysterical woman with her volatile lady feelings can't be trusted’ even after he's known her for like a year compared to Lancelot, Gilli, Daegel etc. being a-okay.”

Comparing Morgana to Lancelot, Gilli, and Daegal as a way of saying that Merlin underrates Morgana's trustworthiness in favor of theirs doesn't make sense.

Merlin doesn't choose to out himself to Lancelot at all. It's an accident.

Merlin doesn't choose to out himself to Daegal, either. He's put in a situation where it's either "use magic" or "we both die."

Gilli has a little more wiggle room in terms of "was this an active decision on Merlin's part," but it's also not accurate to interpret this situation as arising out of Merlin's personal desires/level of trust in Gilli as a person. Merlin reveals himself because he feels like it is the only way to get through to someone who is going to get themselves killed looking for revenge. (And I've written previously about how I think Merlin's choices in this situation are in fact directly influenced by the decisions he didn't make with Morgana, and how making the opposite choice here in an attempt to "do the ‘right’ thing this time" doesn't actually change the ultimate outcome, but that's neither here nor there.)

None of these three instances are moments where Merlin looks at these characters and goes, “these people seem way more trustworthy than that crazy, volatile lady i know; i’m gonna reveal myself to them!" He is forced into all of these situations, against his will, and is outed either by accident or necessity.

Additionally - the above is really the more important counterpoint, but I do think it's worth mentioning that Morgana, as far as the closeness of her relationship with Merlin goes, also can't be meaningfully compared with the other three characters on this list because her position as a noble places her in a totally different category altogether.

Merlin legitimately likes Morgana in the early seasons, and he's thrilled to be her friend. But Merlin is also class-conscious - he has to be, given his position in society; and moreover he's spent the first twenty years of his life being best friends with a dude who is both hyperaware of and hypervocal about the inequalities of the current social system. Merlin is ALWAYS aware that Morgana is on a different level than he is, and he is perfectly justified in being slightly more reticent around people who aren't cut from his own cloth, in the same way he is justified in being slightly more careful around Arthur, who also leverages his power and privilege whenever "equality" becomes inconvenient for him.

Take the comparison between Lancelot and Morgana, for example. Merlin has known Lancelot for slightly less time than Morgana (Merlin meets Lancelot in 1.05), but he cleaves to Lancelot more quickly, and it is only natural that Merlin would do so. Merlin is a peasant farmer. He is literally as low on the social ladder as you can get without being one of the itinerant poor. Morgana is, in essence, a princess, and Merlin isn't wrong for feeling more comfortable around Lancelot than he is around her, because Morgana, for all that she is generous-minded with the servants, is SO far above the level of people Merlin is used to associating with, and she has SO much more influence than he does - it's a power differential that can't be erased, no matter how friendly Morgana is with him. And it’s a dynamic that isn't limited to Morgana, either - it exists between Merlin and Arthur, too.

This is an element of the show that I don't necessarily see discussed often when it comes to Morgana and Merlin (and Gwen, for that matter), and most of the time it seems to be ignored in favor of like...“Morgana doesn't see class! She's friends with Gwen and she's friends with Merlin!" And I'm not disputing that she considers herself to be friends with them at first, but I also am not going to pretend that she doesn't then weaponize her class against them as soon as the situation changes.

In S3, she leverages her privileged position to threaten Merlin with execution if he tries to reveal her misdeeds, because she knows that no one will believe a servant even if he tells the truth ("Just think how Uther would react if he learnt that a serving boy had tried to poison his beloved ward"). She is horrified at her vision of Gwen taking the throne in 3.10, saying "How can that be? She's a servant." She mockingly calls Gwen "My lady" when capturing her in 5.06, and, when offering Gwen a drink of water, says, "Is it too good for you now that you're queen?" She scathingly criticizes Helios’s capture of Merlin in 4.06, saying, "And you bring me how many men? Or should I say how many servants?" She tells Merlin, "You are Arthur's servant, nothing more" later in that same episode. She dispenses with all semblances of equality with Gwen in late Season 2 whenever Gwen's in the way, instead snapping at her, ordering her around, and booting her out of the room. And in "The Dark Tower," she drags Gwen behind her on a rope.

Morgana in the early seasons is committed to an "I'm not going to lord my social status over my lower-class friends!" attitude. But that doesn't mean her social status doesn’t exist, or that the power differential has vanished. And when the chips are down - when Morgana feels like she's getting less than she "deserves" but her former servants are getting more than they themselves do - she falls back on the power she has as a noble. The ways in which Morgana interacts with Merlin and Gwen, after Morgana's falling out with Camelot, don't manifest as just "you betrayed me and we're not friends anymore," they express themselves in ways that specifically target Merlin and Gwen's "lowly" status, in comparison to Morgana's lofty one.

4) “I also hate the Merlin and Gaius talk in 2X12 where they more or less write her off as using her powers for eviiiiil when she hadn't consciously used her powers for ANYTHING yet.”

I suppose this could be subject to personal interpretation, but I’m pretty sure Gaius and Merlin think Morgana was consciously aware that she was the source of the magic.

They don't know that she wasn't consciously involved. The audience doesn't even know that, frankly. What Morgana is actually aware of is left undefined by the show. (I personally always got the vibe that Morgana obviously knows it has something to do with the agreement she and Morgause made, but that she doesn't exactly understand the details of how it's working.) But that's still never actually stated.

Merlin, (after Kilgharrah tells him the magic is coming from Morgana), assumes she is aware of what's happening. And I personally think it’s impressive that even given this, he covers for her the entire episode. At first he doesn't even suspect she has anything to do with it at all, not even after what she did in the previous ep - he makes up that story about Gaius having given her a potion to cover for her, assuming her magic is what's keeping her awake. It's not until Kilgharrah tells him what's going on that he realizes the truth, and EVEN THEN, he continues to lie for her.

If she was afraid - if she was in over her head - if she regretted her actions and wanted to change her mind - she could have confessed to Merlin and asked him for help. Literally everyone in Camelot was incapacitated, and as far as Merlin knew, Morgana’s plan was to let them all die. It's not that I'm happy about Merlin's choice to poison her, and neither is Merlin - but I'm also not comfortable blaming him to the exclusion of Morgana or critiquing him for feeling like Morgana did something bad. She did do something bad! She made her own choices. Merlin didn't make them for her.

Erasing Morgana’s responsibility erases her agency. She makes decisions to get where she is in 2.12. She makes an agreement to help Morgause without doing her research and without getting the details about what would actually happen to the people around her, just like she made an agreement to help Alvarr retrieve the Crystal of Neahtid without finding out what it actually was or how Alvarr planned to use it. Merlin didn't make Morgana do any of those things.

Re: the Merlin+Gaius talk in 2.12 - I personally don't read that conversation with Gaius as Merlin "writing [Morgana] off."

Merlin doesn't think Morgana is irredeemably evil. He apologizes to Morgana when she returns in 3.01. Even when she displays shame and self-recrimination about her own actions, he doesn't say one word condemning her for anything she did in the last season. All he feels is sympathy for her suffering. He tells her, sincerely, "I am so sorry for everything you've been through." He holds absolutely no grudge for what she did in 2.12. None.

And even when he finds out she's betraying them again - he first approaches her as a friend. He begs her to stop. He tells her, "It doesn't have to be like this. We can find another way." He answers "no" when she asks him if he believes she deserves to be executed for who she is. Even as she's trying to kill them all.

And when she snaps, "Good!" in response to his statement that women and children are dying and the city will fall, he responds, "You don't mean that." That is not the response of someone who's already written her off as evil. He doesn't believe she wants all this violence. He is trying to reach her.

She doesn't ever reach back. And that is not Merlin's fault.

5) kilgharrah indiscriminately kills people

I don't think I can really address Kilgharrah in any meaningful way, because personally I don’t feel like dragons operate on or can be evaluated by human moral standards. Other folks can take a different tack with this, obviously; there's no canon information one way or another. That's just my own personal approach.

6) “[Kilgharrah] and Merlin are bros again by 3X02 but Morgause and Morgana and Kara killing knights and guards (who work for Uther/Arthur) are OMG murderers, have crossed a line, etc.”

Okay, look, let’s be honest here - this issue is a real philosophical question raised by the show, but Morgause and Morgana are not just killing knights and guards. Morgana, with Morgause at her right hand, literally orders her crossbowmen to murder a bunch of civilians in the street, as if shooting fish in a barrel. She tells her forces to “burn [the people’s] crops.” She raids Ealdor, a poor peasant village that isn’t even within Camelot’s borders, at the end of Season 4, and at the beginning of Season 5, Morgana’s Saxon army is attacking innocent peasant villages in Annis’s kingdom and capturing the villagers to be taken as slave labor to Ismere. Later in Season 5, Morgana kills other magic-users like Finna and Alator, who have been just as wronged by Arthur/Uther as she herself has been.

Kara - I've already written extensively about how she did nothing wrong and Arthur deserved to be deposed, so...same page there!

To wrap this up -

Nobody does everything right in this show. Everybody screws up somewhere. And the degree to which various people are both victims and villains is something we all have to decide for ourselves, and not all of our conclusions will be the same, which is perfectly fine.

But in the end, for me, the difference between Merlin and Morgana is that Merlin owns his choices. He believes he is the one to blame for what happens not just to him, but to the people around him. He literally says to Morgana, "I blame myself for what you've become." And while I don't necessarily think that's even true, he certainly does. Despite the fact that there are so many factors limiting him and forcing his hand and trapping him into certain courses of action, he never cites those factors as excuses, or seems to recognize their existence at all. He takes responsibility for himself, regardless of any extenuating circumstances. He looks back at his choices, and he feels remorse for some of them, and at the end of the day, when things go badly, he blames himself.

But when things go badly for Morgana, she only ever blames others. When something is wrong, it's because Merlin or Arthur or Gwen or whoever didn't help her (even though she never asked them for help in the first place.) We never see her acknowledge a mistake or regret a decision, even though she obviously makes her fair share of bad ones. She is never shown to be sorry for anything. The closest we get to remorse is her interaction with Mordred in 5.09 ("I hope one day you find the love and compassion which used to fill your heart"), and that brief moment of inner conflict never goes anywhere (which is so unfortunate, as a writing decision, but again, in a piece like this, I can only evaluate what actually happened onscreen, not what I wish had happened).

So, all this being said, I personally am very careful about assigning more blame to Merlin than what he already assigns to himself - especially when he doesn't deserve it (for example, see Part 1 of this piece). Merlin makes his share of mistakes, but we are generally much quicker to hold him accountable than we are Morgana, and we outline impossible expectations for him that we don't expect from any other character on this show. We hold him to a different standard, one which is, frankly, pretty much in line with how he's treated in the canon: that everything is his responsibility, and when things don't work out, everything is his fault. And I can’t get behind that mindset, because a) it isn’t fair to him, and b) I don’t think it holds up under scrutiny.

#sorry this got so long! i get going about merlin and like...time ceases to exist lol #apologies #putting most of this under a cut to spare your dashes #the once and future slowburn #meta #replies #sometimes you've got to do what is right

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dadolorian · 4 years ago

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A Second Chance - Part 1 Whiskey x F!Reader

A/N: I had an idea for a slow burn with Whiskey i couldn’t shake. Reader is Agent Schorle ,a short, curvy female employee at Statesman (Not a field agent). She works in the ‘PR’ department and is good friends with Tequila. This is a mix between canon and Fanon Whiskey, set after Golden Circle so it rewrites canon and he’s not a secret bad guy, living past the events of the movie. But he is still a womanizer while he is single. Like with most my x reader fics its more OFC than a traditional reader but i change it up so it can be read as a reader fic, meaning the reader is more of a character. This chapter is just their introduction/first impressions. Also! I AM NOT American, so if i get any shit about America wrong, IDGAF. Credits: No Beta reader. HMU if you wanna be one for this series

Title: A Second Chance Fandom: Kingsman; the Golden Circle. Ship: Agent Jack ‘Whiskey’ Daniels/Reader Warning: Bit of womanizing behavior from Whiskey (Surprise surprise), it’s not rejected by the reader character so its consensual. Nothing else for this chapter. Heads up before you get invested, not in this chapter but there will be triggering stuff as part of the plot in later chapters, and there will be kids in later chapters too, just in case either of those things aren’t your cup of tea. No use of Y/N in this chapter. There are two narrative perspectives in this story, 3rd person Whiskey perspective and 2nd person Reader perspective. Promise not to flip between them too often. Word count: - 2K Master List - coming soon Request status AO3 Link - coming soon Next part - coming soon

The first thing Jack Daniels noticed was not the way her pencil skirt hugged her ass, or the way her blouse struggled to contain her breasts, as much as his colleagues would later claim. He was well aware of his reputation as a womanizer and didn't exactly blame them for that immediate assumption, it was what most people noticed first about her anyway, why would Jack Daniels, the womanizing Cowboy be any different? No, the thing he noticed first was her laugh. It was so warm, angelic, he was entranced hopelessly from the first moment he first heard it in the Statesman hallway. He would give his damn hat to hear that sound grace his ears again.

He had gravitated over to her immediately, joining in on the little conversation she was having with Tequila. He tried to be subtle, he really did, waltzing up to the two of them with his best, charming smile, checking her out as he did so and nodding a greeting at his colleague. She was short, and curvy, her attire was office professional, meaning she probably wasn't a field agent, tidy, small heels showing her shapely curves of her legs, and soft, professional curls hung loosely, framing her round face. She was gorgeous. “Hey there Tequila,” he smiled, before nodding in her direction. “You gonna introduce me to your pretty lil friend here?” She blushed slightly, he noticed, as she pushed some of her neat hair behind her ear, she had a small shy smile on her face too, ‘cute as a button’ he thought. “Ahhh come on Whiskey, leave her alone,” Tequila groaned dramatically, making her giggle. Jack couldn’t help his smile growing at the sound. “Now now Boy,” he chuckled, patting Tequila's shoulder. “You can’t be hiding this pretty little thing from me and not expect her to catch my eye,” he added, shooting her a playful wink. She hugged the files she was carrying closer to her chest, blushing more and avoided his eye contact. Jack might have assumed she was uncomfortable if that smile wasn’t still playing on her lips. “She’s off limits, Whiskey,” Tequila sighed. “I think she can make her own mind up about that,” Whiskey grinned, elbowing the younger agent. “She’s a big girl. Now come on, show some manners and introduce me.” She giggled again and Tequila groaned, pissed off that already Whiskey’s stupid southern charm was working already. “Whiskey,” he sighed, already expecting the ungodly amount of flirting that was about to rain down upon his friend. “This is Schorle. One of our ‘behind the scenes’ agents.’PR’ department.” Jack flashed her a crooked smile as Tequila continued, motioning to the senior agent. “Schorle, this is Whiskey. I’ve told you ‘bout him before.” “Oh, have you now?” Jack chuckled, he put his hands on his hips and faced her more directly. “All good things I hope?” he asked her. She gave him another shy smile and Jack felt his heart soar. “I am well aware of you Agent Whiskey, and not just from Tequila here,” she said, now his heart felt like it had skipped a beat. Her voice was as angelic as her laugh! “Again, I hope it's all good things,” he laughed. “Most the time, yes,” she hummed playfully. “My main job is hiding Statesman true existence from the public eye.” She flashed him a more coy smile and his grin grew. “Which means i tend to hear about certain escapades, such as a cable car sledding down a mountain.” Jack rubbed the back of his neck sheepishly, laughing nervously. “You certainly don't make my job easy sometimes, Agent,” she teased. Jack's expression was one of pleasant surprise, she wasn’t as shy as she appeared. Tequila laughed, pleased his friend was at least able to bite back at the other man. “She’s still off limits old man,” the younger agent muttered to him. “I am not that much older than you,” Jack retorted, making her giggle some more. “And as i rightfully pointed out earlier, she can make up her own mind about me i am sure.” Tequila was about to bite back but she interrupted whatever thought he was about to say. “He’s right on that Tequila. I can make up my own mind,” she said, giving Jack another smile. “And right now my mind is telling me i need to get back to work.” She gave Jack a nod and Tequila a friendly wave as she turned on her heels and went back to wherever her office was. Whiskey let out a long whistle when she was out of earshot, admiring her ass as her hips swayed. His staring was interrupted by Tequila wacking him in the chest with the back of his hand. “Hey! I’m only looking!” he pouted. “She didn’t seem to have a problem with me.” “Dang it Whiskey she's my friend!” Tequila groaned. “Just leave her alone, she don’t need none of that. “ “She’s not married,and I know she ain’t your girl,” Jack remarked. “She’s still my friend Whiskey,” the younger agent sighed. “I don’t want her gettin’ hurt.” Jack frowned at him. “Hey now that’s not fair,” he said sternly. “I know I have a reputation an all but you’re acting like I plan on breaking her heart.” “She’s one of the nicest people I ever met, she doesn’t deserve to be your current flavor of the month,” Tequila defended. “Now I take personal offence to that Tequila,” Jack countered. “I would like to think myself a gentleman and my intentions are purely honorable.” “The way you were staring at her ass tells me otherwise,” Tequila mumbled. “C’mon Whiskey, you don’t even know her. She’s just another pretty piece of ass to you and we both know it.” Whiskey gave him a disappointed look. Slightly upset his friend would think so lowly of him, but he had to admit his reputation did nothing to counter it. “It’s really bothering you isn’t it?” he asked, sighing when Tequila nodded. “Fine, look, I won’t chase her. If it means that much to you,” he sighed in defeat. He was still enamored with her, but if hooking up with her bothered Tequila so much he wouldn’t in good conscience be able to do so. “That a promise?” Tequila asked, holding his hand out for Jack to shake and seal the deal. “Yeah,” he sighed, taking the offered hand. “She must mean a lot to you,” he added, only getting another nod in return from the younger man as they shook hands.

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You first noticed Whiskey long, long before the two of you ever actually met in person. You hadn’t been joking about dealing with the results of his missions, constantly having to kill stories in the press or send out false reports to police and media so that Statesman’s business remained out of the public eye. Your ‘PR’ department was often quite busy, constantly searching social media to kill any evidence that might have been captured by the public. It was a 24 hour job, one you were in charge of now.

Years ago, when you were a new hire, just one of the lackeys, your first assignment was to comb through social media to kill any evidence of Whiskey’s latest mission. You hadn’t slept for two days during that time, surviving on caffeine and an ambition to make a good impression at your new job. You could vaguely remember complaining to one of your co-workers about the agent who had gone in guns (and Lasso) blazing without considering the fact that smart phones were now a thing and that the target was a very public figure. That was the first time you heard of him, as your more experienced co-worker gushed over his skills as an agent while you sat and seethed at the ungodly amount of work he had caused you on your first assignment.

You could look back on that memory fondly now, and since then your opinion of him had changed as you heard more and more about him. He was a skilled agent, had a strong sense of justice and always got the job done. Sure, his methods were sometimes a little unorthodox and he was often quick to jump into the fray, but there was no denying his skill. He was a senior agent for a reason after all. And of course, you had heard about his reputation, no woman in the office hadn’t. He would flirt with any pretty thing that caught his eye. You used to think that your co-workers that fell for his charm were foolish for falling for it, given his well known reputation among Statesman, but that was before you met him in person. You had seen him in passing before, from afar, or glimpses of him in the social media posts you killed, he was handsome, sure, but it was a whole different level when you met him face to face. You thought you were safe from his charm, believed you were smart enough not to fall for it should it happen to come your way, but you also doubted you would ever be on the receiving end of it. You had been in the same room as him plenty of times in the past and he had never paid any attention to you, and not to mention you didn’t exactly fit his usual type. You were short, plump, nothing like the field agents he was used to working with, women who were physically fit enough to work alongside him and fight. Not to say you thought you were completely unattractive, sure it sometimes bothered you that your blouse could barely contain your breasts and that your stomach and thighs were a little too soft for your liking, but you weren’t blind. You could see the not so subtle looks as you walked past, the way people would try to discreetly check out your ass as you walked. It was a confidence booster for sure. It just never occurred to you before that you would be Whiskeys type. So the day the two of you met officially, you couldn’t help the blushes, he was attractive, and paying attention to you, perhaps it wasn’t so hard to see why women fell for his charm even with his reputation. You were just like every other woman he flirted with, but when he spoke to you it made you feel special. You supposed that was the appeal, why it was so easy for him. It wasn’t until you had excused yourself from his company and were able to calm down that you began to chide yourself for falling for his charm. You reminded yourself of his reputation, as handsome and charming as he was you didn’t want to be just another roll in the hay for him.

You sighed as you made your way into your office. Now the head of Statesman’s ‘PR’ department you were officially considered an ‘agent’, the perks in which included your own private office. You dropped your files off before making your way inside, ready to get back to work, trying to ignore the way Whiskey's attention had made your heart flutter and pretend you weren’t looking forward to seeing him again.

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#Agent whiskey x reader #Agent Whiskey x you #Agent Whiskey x ofc #jack daniels x reader #jack daniels x you #jack daniels x ofc #jack whiskey daniels x reader #jack whiskey daniels x you #agent jack whiskey daniels x reader #agent jack whiskey daniels x you #kingsman the golden circle #kingsman fanfiction #agent whiskey fanfic #my fic #Second chance #SC #pedro pascal #pedro pascal x reader

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x0401x · 5 years ago

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Why do you think the writers of the Tsurune anime decided to tone down masamina and outright cut out kaisei while pushing for sei/mina instead? It's just so baffling to me why they would alter the canon content from the novels so much. Like, what was even the point?

I’ve answered this question quite a few times before, but I’m not sure if I’ve ever made the point entirely clear, so here we go one last time. Sorry that it turned out so long.

So, in novels and manga or any written medium, creators normally have more freedom to do what they want, but when it comes to TV series, animators have been developing the habit of toning down whatever they can. Most of them have this conviction that the viewers only want to watch calm and relaxing stuff nowadays. Other than this, we get adaptations of popular works that basically exist to promote the source material, most of which rush up towards the end like crazy. It does seem like the Japanese audience has an obsession with comfort animes now, since life in Japan gets more and more stressful with each passing year, but it’s not like they’ve abandoned other genres. This general belief that creators should water down the contents however they can is pretty much destroying the industry, and it’s probably what the animators of Tsurune had in mind when changing the novel’s events into a much less dramatic versions or just cutting them off. That’s issue number 1 with the anime.

Issue number 2 is that animators of adaptations tend to ignore the reader demographic in favor of making the series neutral to please all audiences lately. But that’s only when the majority of the readers are women and girls. If it’s guys, you’d rarely see alterations. It feels like the general conception is that making the contents less “cringy” for men means more people will be watching it and having a positive opinion. It seems to completely slip the staff’s minds that the fans they disappoint mostly won’t feel willing to buy the DVDs or merchandise. This is where most of these adaptations fall flat, by the way. It’s kind of really obvious to me that these series are more prone to succeeding if the studios animate what the readers fell in love with, because the originals are popular for a reason, and it’s that people liked them the way they were. I think it’s only the expected when readers are disappointed not to see animes live up to the expectations, and that whoever picks the source material will feel the difference as well. Still, if the anime isn’t a BL, there’s this unsaid rule that you can’t show too much gay between male characters unless you have an excuse for it. Normally, nakama power and rivalry is what does the trick. I don’t think I need to mention that this is the standard in sports animes.

In the Tsurune novel, most of the gay doesn’t have an excuse. Of course, it’s not officially gay unless canon states it, but the books not only don’t give any justification for it, they get rid of possible justifications, so while you can’t say it’s not fanservice, you can’t label it as just fanservice, either. For a studio that banks off fanservice like KyoAni, that’s a problem, especially since the novel is packed with heavy scenes and even heavier quotes.

I mean, in Masaki and Minato’s case, they don’t have the nakama power or rivalry elements, so one possible excuse for them being so close would be that they’re master and disciple. But Minato makes it clear quite early in the story that Masaki doesn’t have to be his master because just having Masaki’s company is enough for him, and all in all, the two of them have a much more affectionate relationship than the other teacher-student ones from the books. Another excuse would be the found family dynamics, but Masaki already shares that with Kaito, who canonically sees Masaki as the older brother he never had, and their relationship is unlike Masaki and Minato’s as well. Kaito also has a monologue in volume 2 about Masaki treating Minato differently from everyone else in the club, and the way he describes it denotes that Minato is Masaki’s favorite, and that Masaki doesn’t bother hiding it. Just as a cherry on top, Minato often loses his rationality when it comes to Masaki despite being a serious kid, and he’s very verbal about wanting to monopolize Masaki. Add fate to the mix and you have the perfect recipe for anything except an ordinary mentor-pupil relationship.

As for Kaito and Seiya, there was a lot going on between them since the beginning, but the nakama power excuse only starts applying late in volume 1, because they didn’t get along very well at first. And even then the nakama stuff hardly applies to their interactions, where Seiya often acts like Kaito has a thing for him, for no reason other than Kaito’s reactions being amusing. Their relationship also does some big strides in the middle of volume 1, and Seiya literally migrates to Kaito’s side at some point. They don’t seem to have a friendship as strong as the one between Seiya, Minato and Ryouhei, but it’s Kaito who Seiya interacts with the most in volume 2 and he’s also the one that Seiya leans on whenever he needs any sort of assistance. There’s other unexplainable things here and there, such as Seiya taking a peek at Kaito’s sleeping face when it’s just the two of them in the room, or him implying that Kaito is jealous of the motherly attention he gives Minato. It goes on as far as the novel does. There’s literally no scene with the two of them that doesn’t make it look like Kaito is really into Seiya and that Seiya owns his ass but he’s the last one to know.

Back to the main point, it’s really hard to animate all of this without giving people “ideas”. For KyoAni, any gay exists ultimately for the sake of fetishization, and they often follow the “ship whatever you want, even yourself with the characters” model. If being gay is canonically a character trait in the original, it’s out (Violet Evergarden is probably the best example of that one), and if the gay can’t be interpreted as something else, it’s either out or downplayed. In Seiya and Minato’s case, that’s perfectly feasible. Not only are they best friends, they also have a familial relationship where Seiya treats Minato like a son. Minato has sworn eternal friendship to Seiya in the novel, and both he and Kaito describe Seiya as something like a helicopter parent. There’s more than enough counter-argument to remind the viewers that, whatever happens between Minato and Seiya, it’s all a product of their childhood friend bond. Anyone is free to interpret it differently in fanon, but the viewers (at least the Japanese ones) are ultimately aware that the anime is in its “safe zone”, portraying a friendship. Nobody on the Japanese side of the fandom actually believed that there was romance going on in it. On the other hand, if you search in Japanese for people’s impressions of MasaMina, you’ll notice people often saying that the novel makes you wonder if Minato and Masaki aren’t actually dating, or if Minato doesn’t have a puppy crush on Masaki, at the very least. Basically, everyone seems to agree that what goes on between those two is hard to define, but whatever it is, there’s this very particular, “special” air about them that differs from the rest of the characters, which normally manifests when they’re alone together.

As you can tell, this overall view is the opposite of the animators’ ideal. If the novel had been animated the way it is, it would’ve probably felt like a BL for the people watching. Not only does it come with practically set ships, it also doesn’t give much space for the proverbial “ship even yourself with the characters” option. To put it bluntly, the animation went through those changes so that it could fit the mold. It gave us SeiMina and even some NanaKai (the latter being honestly disturbing, since they’re cousins), while either toning down or erasing the rest of the duo and trio interactions. It made Minato’s accident with his mom actually seem like Seiya’s fault and didn’t really take the burden off his shoulders but instead swept it under the rug. It also made Masaki seem like a two-faced bastard who only became a coach for the sake of revenge, which means he was using his students (actual 15/16-year-olds) for his own personal gains. Shuu and Minato’s friendship went down the drain, Ryouhei was pushed aside as if Seiya was Minato’s only childhood friend, Nanao was never depicted as his own person, and the girls didn’t even exist 90% of the time. So yeah, none of the changes served any good purpose for the characters’ images. All it did was (try to) fill a quota.

Personally, this whole thing feels like we’re being told to the face, “we’ve given you what you want, now give us your money”. It brings me back to interviews I’ve read featuring Stars Align director Akane Kazuki and his statements about the anime industry being in a pinch, specifically because animators nowadays keep trying to make a fool out of the audience for monetary ends. Seems clear to me that the staff thought the female viewers would latch onto anything as long as it looked remotely gay, and that’s why I was so angry back then. Being looked down on like this by people who expect us to consume their media is pretty offensive, in my opinion. I’m glad there’s at least one creator speaking up about this matter and using the exact same arguments as I have been for more than two years now.

#tsurune #tsurune kazemai koukou kyuudoubu #narumiya minato #takigawa masaki #onogi kaito #takehaya seiya #wow i can't believe i'm getting asks about tsurune in 2020

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oveliagirlhaditright · 5 years ago

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So in your case, are you put off from Sor iku because of the ship wars? And would you have been more open KH multishipping had it not been for that? Or, is Sor iku simply a ship you wouldn't have thought of had the fans not brought it up?

At this point in my life, I feel like an alternate version of me right now could have been shipping S*oRiku some, if the fandom hadn’t ruined it for me.

Though that’s not entirely true. I just feel like this ship would never completely gel with me. And even in said alternate universe, I would still be shipping S*oKai more as my true OTP.

But my issues with S*oRiku are this:

1. While S*ora’s a good enough person to not let what R*iku did to him--in trying to kill him, and all--really bother him or hold it against him... I just personally headcanon that his subconscious mind might cause him to have nightmares about it. Like, his conscious mind is okay with it... but his subconscious mind isn’t. And as an aside, one of the reasons I ship S*oKai--and think it’s good--is because K*airi’s the only person in S*ora’s close circle of friends who has never betrayed him. Some of you may think I’m wrong on this one... and that S*ora’s forgiven R*iku so much, that even his subconscious doesn’t hold onto any of those old feelings. But IDK. Even while forgiving N*aminé, yes, S*ora still told her in that moment he wasn't happy with her messing with his memories.

2. The goddamn power imbalance drives me bananas, and I don’t think it would be healthy. This was, of course, at its worst in K*HI. But it was improved upon after that... when they both realized they were jealous of each other and wanted to be like each other, and then took a healthy step forward in becoming moreso friends again than rivals (perhaps the friends they once were). So you may be asking, “Why don’t you ship them then, Shanna?” Because D*DD had to bring it back! With R*iku now being a Master over S*ora... and seeing as how N*omura always wants Sora to be a “normal boy”, I don’t see that changing. In K*HIII, R*iku--among everyone else but K*airi--kept teasing him about not being a Master... and while it was all in good fun, you can tell that it really hurt S*ora and shattered his confidence a lot. Maybe not so much the teasing, as the event itself... but still. Maybe not tease your dear friend over a sore spot of theirs every second of every day, guys?

3. I’ve just realized R*iku’s entire redemption arc--which is a huge reason as to why people ship S*oRiku--bothers me and makes little sense, imo. Like, the big takeaway from K*HI, is that R*iku was wrong to side with M*aleficent, kidnap Princesses, want to sacrifice P*inocchio to save K*airi and kill S*ora if he got in his way of saving K*airi... And yet the story’s way of R*iku making up for what he did to S*ora, is to essentially kill more people but for him this time: R*oxas and X*ion. And I know there’s a whole narrative about how our heroes were told N*obodies weren’t supposed to exist/really didn’t exist/were doomed to fade away or back into their original selves, anyway, and R*iku felt he had no choice. But it still bothers me. To me, it gives the unintentional narrative that it’s not okay to kill people for K*airi’s sake, but it is for S*ora’s. It also doesn’t help that, for the most part, R*iku doesn’t see what he did in the D*ays timeline as bad at all--or that he should apologize for it (and he’s yet to): at least not like D*iZ and N*aminé do.

And as a 3.5 of this list... I feel like R*iku became too obsessed with S*ora in his desire to help him/make amends with him, and it really isn’t (or at least wasn’t) healthy. Especially since he didn’t seem to take care of himself at all during that time. Though to be fair... some could maybe argue the same when it comes to S*ora’s obsession with K*airi, and how that’s now gotten him killed twice now... and they may not be wrong. So see? I’m trying to be objective and fair here.

4. And this is a big one for me... I kind of don’t care about S*ora or R*iku without K*airi, so this is probably a big reason as to why I could never really ship them... but explains why I can ship S*oRi*Kai some. All of D*ream D*rop Distance, I got no ship feels like many others would or did, or whatever. No. I just wanted to punch both of them in the face the whole time, for abandoning Kairi. I was so mad! I was like, “How dare you leave your other best friend behind, for no good reason (since you thought there was no danger and she can even somewhat fight now), when you know how much your doing so hurt her last time and you maybe even just made promises against that ever happening again?! Yet here you are! And how dare you take the raft without he?r! And R*iku, what the fuck are you saying, that it was T*erra who made you want to see other worlds when in K*HI you said it was Kairi?! You know what?! Dishonor on all of you! Dishonor on you, dishonor on Sora, dishonor on your cow!” Yeah.

5. This is kind of a minor one... but a lot of people ship S*oRiku in a “and S*ora saves R*iku from his darkness” kind of way. And I’m just- I’m getting sick of this trope in any piece of media anywhere. Because it’s not someone else’s job to save you from your demons. It’s your own. Seriously. Stop trying to put that on so many people/characters. It isn’t fair to them... especially when an act of love so strong as that can often times destroy the giver. Not that I really think it would S*ora--or that this entirely applies to S*oRiku--but I’m just kind of done with the trope as a whole. And a lot of people ship S*oRiku because it’s kind of a light and darkness pairing, and find S*oKai boring because it’s light and light... but tbh? In real life, if given the choice, most people would choose to be with a light person and not be weighed down with a dark one. Because again: it’s not their job to save someone, and expecting that from them really isn’t fair.

6. And I guess this is moreso why I don’t like them in fanon, as opposed to why I don’t like them in canon: I hate how most S*oRiku fanworks that I’ve seen of them, strip away any masculinity that S*ora has--but I’ve also seen their argument, that we S*oKais can make him too masculine. And I could maybe agree with that--and just want him to be a damsel in distress for R*iku to save. I think people who have made posts--about how certain S*oRiku fans need to check themselves... because they hate K*airi, for apparently “always needing to be saved by S*ora”... but then dream of S*ora always being saved by R*iku--aren’t wrong.

And as for if I would have seen any S*oRiku at all in the games without S*oRiku shippers telling me it was there... in the original trilogy (K*HI, C*oM, and K*HII), I don’t see it at all. I know most S*oRiku shippers started seeing it in II... but I don’t. At all). I don’t even really see it in D*ays and B*bS. If anything, I started seeing it in C*oded and D*DD (but at first, I didn’t really see it in C*oded, either; it just seemed long strong/sweet friendship stuff to me--and maybe still don’t as much there as I see it in D*DD--so D*DD’s really the only one I see it in). 0*2 doesn’t have it, in my opinion. And even though people try to argue that K*HIII has it... I think if any S*oRiku fan is being honest with themselves... they can tell that the bromance was toned down in that one, at least compared to recent games, probably because this was when N*omura was first getting news that people shipped S*oRiku... while he was making this game that he wanted to go full S*oKai in. Yeah.

So, to answer your question, at least in this reality... I can never really ship S*oRiku: for the fandom, for things I dislike about it, and the fact that S*oKai will always be my favorite (though I can ship S*oRi*Kai, just not as much as the former). But in an alternate universe where the fandom wasn’t awful... I would probably be shipping it a little; I may have been big enough/strong enough to set the tropes I dislike about it to the side and give them a chance, but I still wouldn’t ship it like I do S*oKai... and I’d get mad at any time K*airi was left out and I felt S*ora and R*iku were being bad friends to her.

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reigningsniper-a · 5 years ago

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THE POSITIVE & NEGATIVE; mun & muse - meme.

TAGGED BY: @dolcetters

TAGGING (don’t feel obligated to do it!): @canisfuria, @hariolor, @creepiitus, and idk anyone else if u wanna

FILL OUT & REPOST ♥ this meme definitely favors canons more, but i hope oc’s still can make it somehow work with their own lore, and lil’ fandom of friends & mutuals. multi-muses pick the muse you are the most invested in atm.

—————————————————-

MY MUSE IS: CANON / OC / AU / CANON-DIVERGENT / FANDOMLESS

Is your character popular in the fandom? YES / NO

Is your character considered hot™ in the fandom? YES (???) / NO / IDK (i mean i would say yes but also it’s not like i see posts in the vein ste.ve rogers being a perfect beautiful sculpted human)

Is your character considered strong in the fandom? YES / NO / IDK (she’s not an alchemsit but she’s a fierce fighter without relying on strength)

Are they underrated? YES / NO (we could get into my thoughts on interpretation and people boiling her down to things but that’s none of my business)

Were they relevant for the main story? YES / NO / MAYBE

Were they relevant for the main character? YES / NO / MAYBE

Are they widely known in their world? YES / NO / MAYBE (this feels multi faceted in that people who were aware of the war and stuff know who she is, but she and mustang both find ed in resembool, and literally no one takes a moment to acknowledge the notorious hawk’s eye and flame alchemist are just. there. the only real recognition of their pasts are when scar tries to kill ed in east city. )

How’s their reputation? GOOD / BAD / NEUTRAL (.........depends on who you ask. again. war history. some would consider her a hero, some a criminal, etc)

HOW STRICTLY DO YOU FOLLOW CANON? ♠ || i’ve got a tendency to pretty strictly follow canon - in this case simply because in my opinion the facets all gel and there’s a hell of a lot to work from and go off of when rping. lots of people seek to do canon divergence with their characters, but i’m pretty happy to play my main verses as they were in canon! another one of my muses i do canon divergence with but that’s bc....the dceu is a mess. and lmao. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ BUT. there are some of the vaguer facets of riza’s character that are likely canon divergent/fanon. i’m not going to convince myself into thinking i’ve got a finger on arawaka’s pulse for hawkeye and assume my background for her father and mother when she was a child was the way things actually went, or what happened when riza showed mustang her father’s research and he spent his time decoding it, etc... those are mine because not everything is explained in canon. and! that’s! fine! and for those who do canon divergence, whether minorly or severely - u go beech.

SELL YOUR MUSE! AKA TRY TO LIST EVERYTHING, WHICH MAKES YOUR MUSE INTERESTING IN YOUR OPINION TO MAKE THEM SPICY FOR YOUR MUTUALS. ♠ || do you fancy yourself a woman in combat who refuses to die? literally? do you find most mainstream female characters who are strong only labeled as such because they’re unemotional hardasses who are tossed aside in canon because it’s all about them boys who would probably be lost with them anyway? well beech you’re in the right place, cuz riza hawkeye won’t put up with that bullshit. resilient to her core and pragmatic in regards to her past, she makes no qualms about her misdeeds and sins from her time in a bloody civil war and the workings of a mysterious dark underbelly in her country. she works to do everything she can to eradicate the roots of the conflicts. but make no mistake, she acknowledges her acts as her own, even in the face of such a situation, and will take any punishment deemed necessary once the time comes. this lady will literally die for the people the loves and those she’s never met so they will not suffer, but fights tooth and nail to keep protecting and fighting against insidious forces.

NOW THE OPPOSITE, LIST EVERYTHING WHY YOUR MUSE COULD NOT BE SO INTERESTING (EVEN IF YOU MAY NOT AGREE, WHAT DOES THE FANDOM PERHAPS THINK?). ♠ || i mean. people gravitate to their own types of characters. some people might be mainly interested in just the protag and the main villain(s). most people i’ve seen who are totally disinterested in riza tend to look at the surface and really only see that. which is a very strict, disciplined soldier. and i don’t really...think that’s a hot take. a lot of woman characters are boiled down to their basic outward persona while their male companions are given more analysis and consideration. it just comes with being more prominent in most media tbh. and especially mangas. there’s a LOT of mangas in the same genre as f.ma that have male protags. and there are people who also would have riza shooting her gun willy nilly for comedy (and while that seems to be a thing in the 03 anime...we don’t know her. she doesn’t go here). and then there’s the entire ‘problem’ many members of the fandom seem to have of riza daring to be gutted at the prospect of roy dying bc of course she’s a woman and therefore (even if not conscious), the immediate reaction is ‘oh she’s only crying bc she loves him’ which a. bitch. that’s a valid and real reason for someone to be so clearly affected by someone possibly having been murdered and b. i go into more detail on the stakes and repercussions if he were to actually die in this post here. even if i ship them to hell and back, y’all are missing the point. i’m sorry. (but to be fair i don’t think people who think that tend to find riza totally disinteresting. but sometimes they do because of it and i’m. how dare someone be sad that their longest friend and someone they’ve put faith in to lead a long poisoned country into the light BE UPSET ABOUT IT-.)

#‘adele voice: hello it me’ / ooc #ho boy i had thoughts at the end there

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xerantic · 5 years ago

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I love you but please be a tad nicer. Fanon is a very open and flexible space for people to project and make hcs as they see fit.

Does nice mean never disagreeing with a post or voicing that? If you’re saying I shouldn’t bring up counter-evidence that points to the fact that a meta/theory post is wrong, I’m afraid that’s not going to happen. It’s one thing to have a muse and (mis?)characterize or headcanon things (or diverge from canon) in whatever way one pleases. It’s another thing to spread a theory about canon that not only purports the opposite of what is correct, but also insists those with the correct viewpoint are wrong (or “broke”).

I’m not saying the OP made an intentionally malicious post…but mine wasn’t either. It was an incisive disagreement, with evidence to support my claim, tagged “cw: fandom discourse” to blacklist if it’s not somebody’s cup of tea. I like discussion and debate from time to time, and also I admit seeing people not only hold but spread misinformation and faulty opinions really gets under my skin. Like I said, having your own muse and doing what you want is totally fine. You do your thing if it makes you happy, and I’ll just not follow if I don’t like it. But I hold PSA-type meta posts in a very different regard and find such posts to be open for debate.

Now, if you’re just saying I could have been less incisive, I believe you’re right. I just do not know how to do that; it’s not my style, and it goes against my passion for whatever topic I decide to post on. I make my posts as “powerful” as possible, because I want the message to be convincing, without weakness. If you have specific advice on what I could have said differently or what I could change in the future, I’d be happy to hear you out on that.

I do actually like it when people come to me if they have a legitimate discomfort, because it allows me to draw a bead on what other people might also be thinking and not saying. Of course, how I decide to change or not change depends on the circumstance, but being informed about who thinks what about what I do is useful to me so I have that decision available to me.

On the other hand, morality policing and telling me what to do/think has always been a hot button for me, so the balance of how to bring an opinion about me to my attention can be tricky, particularly for strong Fi-users (nerdy MBTI thing, sorry) who seem to naturally frame most things in judgmental shoulds/shouldn’ts. In general, though, I try to keep my temper and respond fairly if I feel the other person hasn’t actually meant harm, as is the case with this ask.

#OOC #cw: fandom discourse #asks #Anonymous #info

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full-course-identity · 6 years ago

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Overview

Queere Theory: a deeper look at Jeremy Heere, by Sebastian Sabra Thomas

Anxious teenager. Main character. Chronic masturbator. All of these may be used to describe Jeremy Heere at quick glance, in and out of both canon and fanon alike. However, I believe no flippant descriptors can adequately describe his hidden potential lying just underneath the surface.

This is part 1 of a multi-part meta essay wherein I make my case for Jeremy Heere’s character. Links are added to text in [brackets]. Per Tumblr’s broken spam filtration however, I will be removed links and content warnings from any versions of these posts in the tag, and censoring any words I think might be flagged (unfortunately). For the complete version of part 1, please see /post/183607694271/overview on my blog, or /works/18187976/chapters/43020944 on AO3.

This is my first meta, as well as my first essay since… shit, high school. Feedback is greatly appreciated.

For closing on a year now, I’ve been consuming from, and occasionally participating in, the Be More Chill fandom. Still rocky on its feet after the initial Boom of Summer 2017, but steadily gaining traction with the Off (and now On) Broadway performances, BMC is coming to terms with it’s own fanon identity as common characterizations grow more locked in by the day.

As the months go by and I fall deeper in love with this series, I’ve been slowly tracking down abandoned or underappreciated content in my usual stomping grounds (excessive angst and unpopular pairings), solidifying my own thoughts and opinions as a creator first and a fan second. In some ways, I’ve come to similar conclusions as the rest of the fandom. In others, I stand alone.

As I mentioned at the beginning, I’d like to try and make a case for what I’ve come to think of Jeremy, or Jeremiah, Heere, both for my own benefit and as an attempt to persuade others to my side for various, admittedly selfish (but c’mon, would I be writing this if it wasn’t?) reasons. I would deeply appreciate it if you’d come along on this metatextual journey with me to places far and wide inside Jeremy’s subconscious. Do you hear that? That’s the sound of Pure Imagination played over wet slapping noises and the occasional electrotorture flashback!

Anyway.

This essay will be broken down into 7 Parts (links to be added as they’re completed):

[The Overview (that’s this one!)],

[Characterization],

[Mental Health],

[Interpersonal Relationships],

[His Family],

[The Squip], and

[Final Thoughts and Recommendations]

To start with, Characterization will be loosely split two ways: personality, and appearance. This will overlap with the other parts of course, but you should have a solid understanding of the foundation from which I carve details like ‘neurodivergency’ and ‘familial bonds’ from by the end of it. Jeremy Heere may look like an Enigma along a Fault line, but really, he’s a vulnerable kid who’s gone through some intense trauma--whether in canon, fanon, or my own funky concoction of both.

He’s also insanely pretty. Don’t worry, I’ll be reminding you of that a lot.

Mental Health covers MI Disorders like PTSD (which, yes, I do believe Jeremy has), and Neurodivergent behaviors like his autistic symptoms (I don’t generally consider him autistic, but it’s not a hard sell, and I’ll try to go over it either directly in the post or through a follow-up some other time). It’ll also be going over his traumas, both in canon and my headcanon. Heads up: I am mentally ill and neurodivergent, including professionally diagnosed PTSD, among other fun things. I have strong symptoms and trauma which, yeah, I sometimes see in Jeremy. I will be going over how these personal experiences color my perception.

Interpersonal relationships will discuss his friends and romantic prospects--as well as his se-xuality as a whole. From his identity as queer(e) and bise-xual, to his thoughts on being Achellian, to his kinks and latent polyamory and desired hook up habits. Also, all of his identities here reflect ones similar to mine, but with a few important distinctions.

(Speaking of Queerness, across all of these posts, as I feel it’s necessary, I’ll be making a point to talk about the differences between cis boy Jeremy, trans boy Jeremy, and brief thoughts on how I could see a trans femme narrative as well.)

I’ll be using the Family part as a follow up for, and a further exploration of, the specific trauma he’s sustained from his Mother and her abandonment, and how his dad (bless his heart) is 100% canonically neglectful. I truly believe Jeremy has all the hallmarks of an abused kid.

… The Squip will be an interesting topic. If you’re opposed to Squipemy, feel free to skip it, although I will try to segregate the shipping half from the platonic half.

Finally, for the Wrap Up post, I will be writing down my final conclusions and then going over fan content that inspires me and tweaks my perception in ways large and small. For example, I’m always consuming animatics in some form; one great artist is the famous [Cla Comics], who provides a good base for mannerisms and overt humor, though, by nature, her content is on the lighter end of the spectrum then what I’m usually wallowing in. Other artists, like [PINE TRE3] and [Torpedomyass], have both provided some nice angst, and fit right in line with my general taste in aesthetics. It’s not just those three either of course, and I’ll also be doing the same for fanfic, too.

(… in fact, and I consistently sing this to the Heavens whenever I have the chance, but uh, do yourself a favor and read anything written by [Vanceypants]. Vancey is not only my best friend, they’re my longest running collaborator, my biggest fan, and my other muse. They also far surpass my writing, and Smoke Signals, a Rich Goranski origin story, is a fuhcking masterpiece.)

Okay, gushing about content aside, I do truly appreciate anyone who takes the time to read my rambling, and I hope to keep you both interested and engaged from start to finish. All I truly want is for the world to understand just how lovely Jeremiah “Furry Enthusiast and Slowly Burning Anxiety Attack” Queere really is.

Thank you!

#be more chill #bmc #jeremy heere #jeremiah heere #jeremy queere

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dawnfelagund · 6 years ago

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Character Ask: Caranthir

@fefe-homu-akemi, @floralegium, and Anonymous asked for Caranthir, so here goes!

Favorite Thing: I wrote a pretty lengthy defense of Caranthir, who I believe was misrepresented by the narrator of The Silmarillion. I’m not going to rehash that now, but one of the points I make is that he, along with Finrod Felagund, is among the most cosmopolitan of the Noldor: He forms positive relationships with many groups of people outside his own culture. Where Finrod is lauded for this, however, the same actions in Caranthir are downplayed or negatively represented.

Least Favorite Thing: For all of the Fëanorians so far, I’ve discussed their violence for this item, so let’s consider that boilerplate at this point. For Caranthir specifically, I wish he hadn’t told off his damned cousins about their palling around with Thingol. It’s a regrettable moment that Pengolodh seems to lean on heavily in his assessment of Caranthir and that looms large in the imaginations of fans as well, when they take Pengolodh’s word or, in the case of fanworks creators, otherwise develop a character that would act like this routinely rather than looking at his other actions (such as his success in relating to diverse people).

Favorite Line: “Then Caranthir looked kindly upon Men and did Haleth great honour ...” (The Silmarillion, “Of the Coming of Men into the West”)

This is evidence of the Favorite Thing but also ... man oh man, there is so much mystery embedded in those two words “great honour.” Is it simply what The Silmarillion tells us he offered her? Or is there more there? Up to and including a romantic relationship?

brOTP: Caranthir is very much a one-man wolfpack in my mind. In fact, given the number of positive relationships he forged with other people, I imagine him wearily doing his best to behave to cultivate and maintain those connections because he knows he has to but silently shaking his fist at the universe for putting him, of all people, in such an ironic position.

(In this, I relate to him a lot. I’m deeply introverted. And I’m also a middle-school teacher, and a good one--I won Teacher of the Year last year at my school. I excel at building relationships with my students, and not just the ones who are like me. So I run the gamut from warm-hearted and constantly smiling with my kiddos to a snarling misanthrope at home. I’m exaggerating a little on the last one but, yeah, I get Caranthir.)

OTP: I love Haleth/Caranthir, but my OTP for Caranthir is his wife, Taryindë (as she is called in my verse). They grew up together, both were rather awkward (really awkward, in Caranthir’s case) and experimented with each other as teenagers, and eventually married. They had two daughters, who were born in Middle-earth and survived through the First Age.

There are spoilers for future stories ahead.

Taryindë went to the Nirnaeth with her husband but agree not to ride into battle because, after all, they had two youngish children and one of their parents should survive to see them into adulthood. Only, in the grand tradition of Tolkien’s women, she did ride into battle, unbeknownst to Caranthir. When she found him unconscious on the battlefield, she defended his body with her own and saved his life.

When he woke up, she was gone. He never learned what happened to her.

(Yes, I will write this story someday but at the rate I’m going I’ll be about 73.)

nOTP: I mean, I guess Nerdanel again? I really don’t do the hardcore shipping thing where liking one pairing more than others automatically rules the others out. Caranthir is sexually precocious on the sly in my verse--this idea is explored most fully in The Sovereign and the Priest--so my imagination has already gone all sorts of places.

Random Headcanon: It’s not terribly random because I feel like it’s the elephant in the room where my Caranthir is concerned. It’s definitely the most obvious fanon that my writing has created: the idea that Caranthir was unusually sensitive to the thoughts and emotions of others. He is also not fully bound by time: He is able to perceive things in the past and the future the way that you or I could look off into the distance in place.

I’ve written many times before about where this idea came from. Essentially, I was trying to explain his animosity to the sons of Finarfin, which didn’t seem to make much sense to me. As far as Finwëans go, they are pretty harmless, at least based on what we see in the texts.

(Had I tackled this question a few years later, once I had access and had read parts of the HoMe, I probably would have gone with him being jealous of their friendship with Celegorm and Curufin, while he--stuck in the middle--was overlooked. But I was a baby in the Silm fandom when I tackled this question, hadn’t read any of the HoMe, and developed my characterization of Caranthir as a result.)

Because of his heightened sensitivity to others--a trait we know ran in Finarfin’s branch of the family tree as well--Angrod and Aegnor were able to be unkind to him without others perceiving it. Much of this centered on the fact that Caranthir had a crush on their brother’s betrothed, Amarië, which they found out about. And Caranthir was very awkward and had trouble controlling his emotions--being a constant radio tower for others’ unfiltered feelings will do that to a person--so he provided them with plenty of fodder.

(I also honestly wanted to write mindspeak in a way that wasn’t a bunch of characters sitting around and thinking at each other, which was how it was usually written at the time. I mean, imagine explaining taste or smell to a being that doesn’t have it; I tried to do that with Caranthir’s perceptions.)

Anyway, from this came my Caranthir, who is strange to the point that he is off-putting to others; in my recent Cradle of Stars, Anairë calls him “the wild one who’d been born half-mad.” Hence, also, Pengolodh’s eagerness to depict him as angry--he certainly would have looked that way at times, to those who did not know him well.

Of course, I’ve since taught many a Caranthir. @heartofoshun first suggested that Caranthir was on the autism spectrum. I never intended that reading but certainly don’t mind him being read that way at all! I’ve worked most of my career with boys with emotional disabilities and have a lot of empathy and love for people for whom interacting with the world isn’t always easy. In retrospect, even though it wasn’t my intention at the time, I’m glad I gave one of them a prominent place in my verse.

Unpopular Opinion: I suppose my argument that he was not as awful as Pengolodh claims wouldn’t be popular among the anti-Fëanorians, who have always been a significant part of the Silm fandom and who lean rather heavily on the belief (the word is very intentionally used) that the Fëanorians were not fallen but evil to begin with.

Otherwise, my Caranthir has been popular over the years, which is ironic, because in the conservative moment in Tolkien fandom history when I began writing, I was convinced that I would be excoriated for my writing of him so beyond the bounds of what Tolkien gave us (although always informed by the canon). The exact opposite happened for the most part.

Song I Associate with the Character: Bush, “Glycerine.” (Actually, the much of the angsty ‘90s alternative catalogue could fit Caranthir. He has Stabbing Westward and Linkin Park on permanent repeat.)

Favorite Image: Caranthir by @albuum. Because Caranthir is a character that I have such a strong sense of, I often find artwork that I like but don’t particularly connect to as my Caranthir. This one is pretty doggone close and features his wife too. *happy sigh*

#caranthir #silmarillion #tolkien #character ask meme

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pinkipie100 · 7 years ago

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Hi there. I read your analysis about The Voltron Show and I really liked it! At one point in that analysis, you mentioned that you feel the Voltron fandom is too quick to feel offended over how Hunk is portrayed in the show. Do you think it's possible that you could elaborate on that, if you wanted? And do you feel that this "overly-sensitive attitude" within the fandom extends to Lance's portrayal in the show as well?

Me? 27000 years late to an ask? HA HA HA!

…Always. Sorry, @thenorthernphoenix, I’ve been absent for quite a while, and I totally forgot my askbox was a thing.

Anyway, a thousand times thank you for reading my meta! To answer your question, and I may receive a lot of heat for this, but I think the Voltron crew have handled Hunk’s portrayal well, actually, and I’ll explain why. Hopefully concisely. Definitely not concisely.

First of all, Hunk is fat. Can we just… admit that? He’s fat. THAT IS OKAY. THAT IS SO OKAY. In fact, I think it’s important for boys who are also overweight to see. They need to know that they can still be the hero, despite their size. I know that a lot of the body positivity schtick has to do with encouraging women to feel comfortable with their bodies regardless of weight, but it’s really important for men, as well! Men probably have a tough time dealing with their body image because they’re expected not to care, but they’re also expected to simultaneously having ridiculously hypermasculine, ripped bodies, or they’re not really ‘a man,’ you know? But if people see Hunk and realize that this guy, yes, is overweight, but still kicks ass and is even the strongest paladin [stronger than Shiro!], that’ll give them just the encouragement they need. [Plus, Hunk is really f*ckin’ hot.]

Second of all, HUNK LIKES FOOD A F*CKING LOT. CAN WE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS?!?!?! Okay, I apologize, I’m getting heated… I just notice that people get extremely angry when Hunk is shown going crazy over food. I just… Of course he will act that way around food, he’s a foodie! Is it funny? Yeah. Does that mean we’re supposed to respect him any less? Of course not! Look, I’m not overweight, but I’m still a foodie! I, in fact, may or may not love food a bit too much in the most weird of ways! [-Food fetish much, Pinki? -Shut the fuh!] I honestly find it laughably relatable when Hunk drools at the sight of a delicious-looking hors d’oeurvre, or climbs over the invisible maze’s walls to get to a fine alien pastry! Like, f*cking me too, Hunk! I don’t know, maybe I’m being insensitive and stupid, but I don’t view Hunk as any less of a character because he’s very food-crazy. Last time I checked, though, no one was up in arms about Po using food to motivate him to become the Dragon Warrior.

I get it, this is just my own opinion. I like to believe that I’m being sensible, though. I’ll admit that, yes, the food jokes get a little old sometimes, but hey, they are still tasteful [dammit… I… I swear I didn’t mean to pun there]. Hunk is always depicted as a master of his craft, educated in the ways of the kitchen. He doesn’t just make junk food, either, he can cook meats; pastas; god forbid, vegetables! Take a look at any other kid’s show, and tell me if you find a fat character who is treated respectfully by their friends like Hunk, is as intelligent as Hunk, and is as three-dimensional as Hunk. Seriously, lemme know, I think I’d give the show a try, if that’s the case.

*whispers* Am I getting long-winded yet…

Okay, now for the second part of your question, I could go on for days about how the fandom basically becomes a volatile gershderned cult when it comes to Lance. The fandom is sensitive about Hunk’s portrayal, no doubt, no doubt- but when it comes to Lance, oh ho, they take it to an entirely new level!

Violent discourse has broken out surrounding Lance’s race, sexuality, mental state, personality, and hell, even his g*ddamn last name! I’m not at all ashamed to say, all of it has been bullsh*t. The f*ckers Lance stans of this fandom will only accept Lance one way, and that seems to be as a 100000% Cuban, 0.00000% American, Not Straight™, mentally unstable, delicately insecure flower that a) must be protected at all costs and b) crying 24/7 unless Keith is there to comfort him. Any time the show contradicts this, it’s the executive producers’ heads.

Voltron Fandom, come close… gather round the fire… I’m about to clear a few things up for you:

One, Lance is a Lady’s Man. YEAH, I SAID IT, AND I WOULD 100% SWOON IF HE USED A PICKUP LINE ON ME, SO FIGHT ME! Heh, but seriously, he likes women. And, you know what? Women like him! Almost every time he flirts with a woman, she shows interest back! …save Allura, but I think we can tell from Lance’s vlog that it’s because he genuinely likes her and doesn’t really know how else to approach her. Does that mean he’s straight? Uh oh… Uh oh… UH OH! IT MIGHT! Well, it might not. He could still be bisexual with a preference for women, which I honestly buy a lot more than him being flamboyantly attracted to both sexes. We can’t assume nothin’ until it’s outright stated, but until then, the fandom needs to be aware that Lance’s actual sexuality is pretty much up in the air.

B, Lance is Cuban. I love this about him, but when people start to throw sh*t when people headcanon him as mixed or possibly born in America or having a Western last name, it kind of ticks me off. Like, what’s wrong with being a little bit white? Does that diminish the value he may have of his Cuban roots? I’m mostly white, but does that make me not give a sh*t about my Chamorro heritage? Of course not! My mom has a Western maiden name, but that doesn’t mean she’s not Chamorro, too! If Lance had a Cuban last name, that’s so great! If he has a Western name, it’s not ‘giving in to the White Man.’ It’s probably just the result of some intermixing with Western people somewhere along his family line, and it could have been generations ago, anyway. About him being Cuban-American… Look, I think Americans can be pretty sh*tty and our country is f*cked up, but I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. So there’s absolutely nothing wrong with Lance being American-born and proud to be it.

III, stop. Making. Lance. Helpless. Nnkey? I like Langst. I do. But please, administer it in moderation! Write/draw it sensibly! I’m incredibly tired of seeing Lance portrayed by fans as some unstable, immature, dependent crybaby who is unable to control his emotions or stand without the constant support of a Love Interest™ [it’s usually Keith, and as a stalwart Laith shipper, I am sick of this]. I think that, even beginning from the S1-S2 hiatus, the fandom read a bit too deeply into Lance’s impending insecurity arc, and we all got so hyped up to see it, we were disappointed when it wasn’t immediately addressed. I’ve probably said it a thousand times, but once more, with feeling: Lance’s arc will be slow-burn. We’ll get snippets of his insecurities here and there, just breadcrumbs that will lead up to the climax of his arc, and it’ll be awesome. But, the fandom needs to have patience until then. I hold faith upon faith in the creators, especially Joaquim dos Santos [Mr. Lance-Is-My-Favorite-Paladin himself], to deliver a delicately laid story unfolding around Lance that we will all love once complete, and wonder why we were ever upset.

In conclusion, I very much agree that the fandom is WAY too overly sensitive about how Lance is portrayed in-canon, and it’s actually warping their perceptions of reality. They think that they’re the only ones who know what Lance is really like, and that the writers of the actual g*ddamn show are ‘doing it wrong.’ In the show, Lance is friendly, dorky, funny, cocky, emotionally mature, perceptive, and realistic. Fanon Lance is emotionally unstable, dependent, unconfident, incapable, tortured, bullied, and underrated by his teammates. This is not to say that Canon Lance isn’t insecure and somewhat misunderstood by his friends, but he is mature in managing those insecurities and confiding in others [e. g. seeking solace with Keith, believing in Allura]. I just think Lance is a LOT tougher than his stans give him credit for, and I really love that about his arc; he won’t have to be that tough forever, and when he finally lets his barriers down, it is gonna be. Just what the doctor ordered.

ANYWHALE! I apologize for writing basically another meta in response to your ask, especially considering you sat through my whole ‘Voltron Show’ meta! I am so glad you asked, though. I know my wording here is very strong, but I think it’s better for me to be analytically bold than to be apologetically opinionated.

Seriously, thanks again for reading the meta and facilitating discussion about it; you’re an absolute dream! Sorry for being late to answer, and enjoy the rest of your ventures through fandom and meta thereupon!

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