#and the mummer's farce is almost done

[atopvisenyashill]

WHERE HAVE ALL THE STARK WIVES GONE AND WHERE ARE ALL THE COZ'S

aka i made the stark family tree from torrhen, the king who knelt all the way to the starklings & filled in some gaps too just for funsies. behold my magnum opus because i am a visual learner. some notes on the tree:

at the start of the tree, you’ll notice some lines are purple. those are not technically canon relations - we know those people existed but we aren’t told how they’re related or who their wives were. similar to my dornish timeline, i filled in a few gaps here based on the information we have to go off, some leaps in logic when it comes to the politics of the time, and some math.

similarly, you’ll notice some names in {brackets}. those are characters that we know exist but we don’t know their name (ie, we know alaric had two sons, we don’t know their names). i picked their names from other stark names.

the kids aren’t always in age order. i couldn’t get the graphic to line up in places bc of the cousin marriages and still keep everyone in age order, so i just gave up aksjd.

all the ones with the book sigil were Lords of Winterfell. all the ones with the show sigil were just born into the stark house.

alright now we got some explaining & rambling below the cut

george give the wives names. george at least give them a house. george pls you don't have to give her a personality just give her a freaking name george.

anyways!!! first things first, let's go into the names and houses i invented for everyone, starting from Torrhen's wife on the left and moving to the right:

Lady Manderly, the last Queen in the North - i think given the Manderlys are the #2 house, it was thematically fitting that the last Queen in the North was a Manderly! I also think it would make sense, given how common Iron Islander raiding was in this time, that Torrhen would want to strengthen his alliance with the house that owns his fleet. We also know the North’s fleet was pretty damn impressive at this time - Aegon uses them to fight several times after Visenya destroys the Vale’s fleet during the conquest.

Lady Dustin, wife to Brandon the Boisterous - Torrhen’s sons hate the Iron Throne and they’re all really pissed at the Stark Maiden-Ronnel Arryn marriage, so I figured Torrhen’s sons would want very fierce, very Northern wives (no offense to the Manderlys). Given Barrowton is one of the only true cities in the North, I thought marrying a family familiar with travelers, maybe a richer house even, might be seen as a benefit to staying strong against the Iron Throne.

Lady Flint, wife to Brandon the Boastful - Similar to Lady Dustin, I thought a strong Northern match would be what the sons of Torrhen would continue to go for. The Flints of Widow's Watch are considered the most powerful of the Flint houses so I thought that made a good match.

Lady Norrey, wife to Edwyn Stark - this one was fun & required some math and analysis. Basically, we know none of Alaric’s sons are married when Alysanne comes to visit, and Alaric is succeeded by his grandson, because both of his sons die before him. It means his grandson could be at the oldest 14 when he inherits. We also have Gyldayn say that some “Stark brothers” looked into seeing if Alysanne giving the New Goft was legal. I thought if Alaric & his sons were so annoyed by this, wouldn’t it make sense to marry into a house near the New Gift, who perhaps will be impacted by the decision and have the knowledge of the area and its history? Since the Norreys are right on the border, I thought that would be a good fit. I also thought it would be a good fit because Cregan married Arra Norrey just a bit later - and one pattern I noticed is that when a family marries into the Stark line once, they tend to remarry each other within a few generations again. They do this with the Blackwoods, the Lockes, AND the Royces - it’s likely the mothers & grandmothers influencing the matches, and I thought it was a fun pattern to repeat.

Lady Reed, wife to Artos Stark - So one thing we know is that Lynara Stark, Cregan's third wife, is not descended from the uncle who attempted to usurp Cregan but from a younger son of Brandon the Boisterous. I also noticed Lynara's son, Brandon, has an affair with a Fenn. The Fenns are sworn to House Reed, so I thought it made sense that this branch of the Starks has perhaps lived in the Neck, and brought a small household with her that included a Fenn or two that her son later has an affair with.

Lady Glover, wife to Ellard Stark - this is another “marry & remarry” match up but there I chose the Glovers also because I noticed the Starks tend to marry into the same few houses over and over again. These are likely their richest vassals and closest allies, so I thought again it would make sense that Ellard would pick a woman from a wealthy or important background as the succession crisis under Jaehaerys starts to kick off (in preparation for a fight, even if it's just a war of words). Since you have Gilliane Glover just a bit down, and I thought that would match up nicely with the "marry and remarry" trend as well.

NOW SOME ANALYSIS

Obviously there's been a lot said about the Sansa-Jonnel and Serena-Edric marriages that I don't really need to repeat at length but - I think the choice to have a Sansa and a Jonnel One-Eye marry is kind of sus, I think the "One-Eye" thing is sus, I think the niece-uncle connection here is kind of sus, and I think the fact that their mother was a Manderly is also sus.

There's also the fact that Serena has several sons and we have no idea what happened to them. That one stands out to me because of the Cregan-Lynara match; as stated above, Lynara is not, as some people assume, the daughter or granddaughter of Arnolf, the uncle that attempted to overthrow Cregan. Her Stark name comes all the way from a younger brother of Brandon the Boisterous. That's quite a few generations back that a Stark line has survived to remarry into the main line and we don't even know if she was an only child or had brothers and sisters. So Brandon's brothers' weren't just mysteriously offed/died out, but just two generations after Lynara, all of Serena's descendants just mysteriously die off? Nah, there's a story here that's hiding. The obvious suspect here is The She-Wolves of Winterfell story with Dunk & Egg. COMMA BUT. It's crazy that there are no Stark cousins in the modern day, no cadet House the way we have the Arryns of Gulltown, the Green Apple Fossoways, the Lannisters of Lannisport, etc., and also equally weird that Lynara's Stark line isn't a named cadet branch.

But let's get into the cadet/cousin branches in the modern day as well - one thing I noticed about the lack of Stark cousins in recent history (ie first and second cousins rather than like, seventh and eighth) is that a lot of them are female line cousins. Catelyn and Robb point this out in the book when Catelyn brings up the Vale Starks in the Templetons, the Royces, and the Waynwoods. I think the fact that Sansa is in direct contact with a host of those same families will come into play; perhaps when she unmasks herself as Sansa, someone will comment on her resemblance to Jocelyn, or maybe that familial connection will prompt a bit more loyalty out of one of Jocelyn's descendants if she has to make a mad dash out of the Vale.

And this is the same with Lyarra; she had a sister, Branda, who married a Rogers, which is a very minor Stormlands house. That stuck out in my head because I think this all really sets up the North to be ruled by Sansa; there are no male cousins or even female line male cousins (shout out Targaryen cousin Robert Baratheon) to step in and say "Well wouldn't you prefer a man as the Stark in Winterfell?" It's just Bran, Rickon, and Jon Snow that could possibly threaten her rule. It seems like she's very set up to echo her predecessor here but instead of Jonnel marrying her to steal her claim, Jon is likely to back up her claim, same as Bran.

And since I'm talking about namesakes here, let's dig into Arya Flint. There's two big associations here for Arya - Brave Danny Flint and the Wandering Wolf, Rodrik Stark. I think it's interesting that he served with the Second Sons, given that Arya is a Second Daughter, rather than the Stormbreakers, which was started by Oscar Tully. The moniker itself, Wandering Wolf, also makes me a bit excited for Arya's future; I've said before but I want Arya to do everything she wants to do and being so closely associated with a "Wandering Wolf" makes me think she will. The Danny Flint connection is also interesting here - there's the fact that Jon Snow, the sibling she's closest to, joins the Night's Watch (and even makes reference to Danny Flint), the fact that Danny dressed as a man and fought with a sword. Similar to the "Wandering" epithet potentially spelling out a happy ending for Arya, I am hopeful she'll have a happier ending than Danny Flint. But I do wonder if perhaps Arya will have some involvement with the Night's Watch, however it exists in the endgame.

Lastly - I'm so curious about Harrold Rogers. Did he help facilitate the friendship between Ned and Robert? Are the Rogers' still kicking around looking Starkish as hell? George where are all the cousins!!

[thewingedwolf]

i had made it a point when i was listening to got to mark all the places where Ned, Bran, & Sansa’s memory is super unreliable bc of Trauma Coping the question is do i type that up or do i just say that Sansa & Bran certainly learned their coping skills from their dad and that is NOT a compliment to Ned bc that man doesn’t cope with shit lmao

[setnet]

It's been interesting rereading asoiaf and actually reading it through, rather than skipping to the characters I was most interested in and going back to read the rest when it became obvious I'd missed something (I spoiled myself for Bran and Rickon's 'deaths' and the Red Wedding this way the first time around). The books definitely hang together better when you read them as published.

I have found that GRRM's habit of ending chapters on a cliffhanger or punchline makes for an oddly choppy reading experience. I have to take breaks between every 2 to 4 chapters - deliberately slow myself down the way I do when I read a collection of short stories or poetry (I don't have the same issue when listening to the audiobooks because they go at a slower pace than I read with my eyes)

[branwendaughterofllyr]

Sorry girl, but you lost so badly, GRRM will never finish the books, meaning that there will be zero Stark restoration, zero Jonsa, and Daenerys is still alive. And the Greens are still utterly irrelevant and no character mention Alicent when they discuss the DoD. Stop stanning losers.

Oh honey. I know this is probably hard to you for hear, but I already have five books of Stark content to enjoy. I already have five books of Jon, Bran, Arya, and Sansa, not mention Ned and Cat, all pointing to a Stark restoration and the rebuilding of Winterfell. This entire series started with the scene of the Starks finding the direwolves. The original title of ADOS was A Time For Wolves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Calling the Starks losers is very funny, when their enemies had to break the rules of their society to win and are already on their way out. The North Remembers and the mummer’s farce is almost done. Like, I don’t know what to tell you, the Starks still are at the heart of the books as written, doesn’t matter if George ever finishes ADOS, the Starks are still the heart. And that’s a win for me. And on Dany? Well. I mean. Girl is not exactly winning at everything at the moment, is she? One of the few essays about ASOIAF George has ever endorsed is the Meereenese Blot. Maybe go check it out? Or maybe reread ADWD? That’s sure to give you the warm and fuzzies about Dany all over again. And it’s funny for you to bring the Greens into this. Bc F&B is fundamentally an unserious book that I enjoy laughing at. Nobody looks good in it. I don’t even particularly like the book Greens. I just think that when a show tries push the framing of one side in what’s meant to be a bloody civil war where no one wins, I push back. And of the characters that get mentioned in canon during the Dance? Uh. I hate to tell you that Criston Cole gets equal mentions to Rhaenyra, and everyone else is pretty much not talked about. Daemon doesn’t even get brought up (overshadowed by all the Blackfyres I imagine). And we all know how the Dance ends. That story at least is done.

And this is the ASOIAF fandom. There are literally no irrelevant characters, lol. Someone can have nothing but one named mention, and there’s probably a fanblog about them somewhere. That’s simply not the insult you think it is. And as I recall, one of the og Dance novellas was “The Princess and The Queen”? Idk, someone’s talking about Alicent. Wonder who wrote that.

[princerenly]

the north remembers lord davos the north remembers and the mummer’s farce is almost done my son is home

[deadmegumi]

THE NORTH REMEMBERS, LORD DAVOS. THE NORTH REMEMBERS, AND THE MUMMER’S FARCE IS ALMOST DONE. MY SON IS HOME 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[sirenascelestiales]

“Foes and false friends are all around me, Lord Davos. They infest my city like roaches, and at night I feel them crawling over me.” The fat man’s fingers coiled into a fist, and all his chins trembled. “My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder’s bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with his friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter…but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done. My son is home.”

Lord Manderly became a fave with like 1 paragrah?

[kentnaturaltribrid]

“A good friend is like a four leaf clover, hard to find & lucky to have.”

Went walking and almost could’ve stepped on this little piece of Relver, the Northern type.

It’s small enough that it fits well.

“The North remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done. …….”

[jonsnowwesterosworld]

My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder's bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter ... but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home.

[ser-arthurs-dawn]

I love that Sam is the character who is quite possibly the first to slay an Other in over 8,000 years!!

Two loyal characters who are overlooked for their physical appearance. One begins to find his confidence throughout his journey. The other uses the judgment from others to his advantage. But both utilize their skills for the people they love and to uphold the things they believe in.

Wyman gives us one of the best speeches in the series..

My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder's bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter ... but never think that means I have forgotten. The North remembers, Lord Davos. The North remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home.

jkr: heres my fat character named dudley who is incredibly lazy spoiled and stupid. heres another fat character called goyle who is also dumb and disgusting. :)

grrm: heres my fat character named sam tarly who gets disowned because he is fat and disappointment to his dad, and has to join nights watch so he doesnt get killed, where everyone bullies him. however, he is a very awkward and empathetic and brave character who follows his moral code and cares so much for his friends! his weight is something people judge him for but he is actually super smart and nerdy and loves to read books and goes to become a maester and other characters learn not to judge him for his body. ^-^

[wardensantoineandevka]

Anyway, I’m still angry about how the show cut out all of Davos’ most interesting arcs, especially Davos in White Harbor.

[atopvisenyashill]

thoughts on the grand northern conspiracy theory?

it makes some points but i think most of it is deeply silly and relies on far too many leaps in logic and characters acting in a way they would never act all to push a “jon will be king” theory, which as i’m sure everyone knows, i am a big hater of.

The basis of the theory is that the Northern lords are purposefully playing Stannis & the Bolton/Freys against each other so they can take each other out, and free the North up for a Stark King & Northern Independence. That, on its face, I fully believe. It’s the details in the theory that I don’t fully buy into.

It’s basically canon that the Northern lords & ladies are really taking advantage of the chaotic politics & lack of a real centralized leader at the moment to make their own political moves. Some examples here include:

Arnolf & Cregan Karstark are explicitly doing this, something Alys comments on and something several other lords point out: "My uncle declared for Stannis, in hopes it might provoke the Lannisters to take poor Harry's head. Should my brother die, Karhold should pass to me, but my uncles want my birthright for their own." They don't really care about Stannis, they want Harry dead so they can have Karhold.

Alysane Mormont is potentially working off orders from her mother, when she says here, "Five, we were. All girls. Lyanna is back on Bear Island. Lyra and Jory are with our mother. Dacey was murdered." Even though as far as we know before that, all of Maege's girls were at Bear Island (except Dacey, who was with Maege in Robb's campaign).

There's the Umbers refusing to fight each other while picking two different sides, and this theory here that it was likely a plan between Mors and Hother to keep the Greatjon alive.

The Manderly Of It All re: very obviously using his granddaughter's anger as a cover for his own brutal plans for revenge and a Stark restoration.

The North is all clearly playing the game & attempting to oust the Boltons & Freys from power. I also don’t think the grumbling for Northern Independence would have died down since Robb died - if anything, after their King is brutally, viciously murdered, his mother’s corpse made a mockery of, his little Queen now a prisoner, and his sisters married off to enemies & humiliated, I imagine the calls for Northern Independence have gotten louder. This is a people that has suffered not just death and violence, but a lot of humiliation on top of that, and all of that is the perfect recipe for some sort of nationalist call for independence.

But the theory has. Some points that I just cannot co-sign because they make absolutely zero sense to me.

The idea that the only thing stopping Jon from being king is Jeyne being pregnant or the witnesses of Robb’s will being dead is just silly. He isn’t Ned Stark’s son, he is Lyanna’s! That puts Robb’s entire will in question, and you can bet your ass that there will be some grumbling or discussion about whether Winterfell should bypass Ned‘a line despite him having TWO true born sons and TWO true born daughters still alive, or whether it goes to Lyanna and therefore to Jon. The succession question is just NOT as simple as the meta makes it out to be because it completely ignores that Jon is, I cannot stress this enough, NOT actually Ned Stark’s son.

The meta is right that it’s likely Maege & Gallbart got a message to Howland because Theon notes that there’s been attacks by craggoman. But. Howland is one of - possible thee only - person left alive that knows Jon is Lyanna’s son. There is just no way he doesn’t have a strong opinion on whether Jon should inherit winterfell without knowing the truth.

Irrelevant but it’s really mean to Jeyne Westerling. Whatever role she may have - even if it’s to die in the prologue of TWOW - her life and her death are important regardless of whether she’s pregnant! She is the widow of a King, and if she dies by LSH’s hand, it’s going to be a huge point in showing us the violence in the Riverlands. Maybe the continued breakdown in the Riverlands, Lady Stoneheart’s anger, and Jeyne’s defiance of her family is not relevant to the King Jon pushers, but it IS thematically relevant to the plot thank you very fucking much. THE GIRL IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE BOY.

More relevant to this point is there’s just no way in fuck that Lady Stoneheart is trying to crown Jon. “oh she has bigger problems” she is going to crown one of her children if she crowns anyone, likely Arya, not her husband’s bastard who she fucking hated & asked to be banished to a glorified penal colony. Look at Brynden’s comments about Jon:

The Blackfish narrowed his eyes. "Did your father arrange for that as well? Catelyn never trusted the boy, as I recall, no more than she ever trusted Theon Greyjoy. It would seem she was right about them both.

Cat hates that kid so much she wrote letters to her uncle talking shit about him but we are supposed to believe this is proof she wants to crown him? When she's so far gone she's willing to kill Podrick and Brienne off a perceived slight against her? When she's heard several rumors that her daughters may still be alive and well? No. Don't buy it even a little.

Also, Brynden is flying Robb’s banner bc Robb was his family, because he loved Catelyn, and because what else is he supposed to do when he’s in the middle of a siege?? This point is silly and nonsensical.

Harwin as the Hooded Man - i mean. there’s nothing for or against this really, but also the Theon Durden theory aka Theon is the hooded man and doesn’t realize bc he’s having a psychotic episode, is much more believable to me & much more in line with everything that’s happening in theon’s chapter.

So like. Yes, the basic premise of “the northern lords are desperately looking for a stark, any stark, to make king/queen in the north, bc they are tired of All This Bullshit” is something i completely agree with. I do think it’s likely Maege has been in contact with her daughters, & that she and Gallbart made contact with Howland, who is about to enter the scene in a big way. But all that ish about LSH, the BWB, and Blackfish? Absolutely not. LSH is about Arya’s story (and Brienne & Jaime’s), not Jon. Stoneheart doesn’t care about the politics in Westeros; she cares that she followed all the rules and it got her family killed, so now she will break every rule there is to get revenge for her slaughtered children. she is Alyssa Arryn except she has the power to cause a lot of suffering before her tears drown her. she is not wasting her second life crowning jon snow!

[setnet]

today in horrifying asoiaf realisations: I am older now that littlefinger is at the start of a game of thrones

[aegor-bamfsteel]

More positivity asks. List some of your favourite Asoiaf chapters.

We do need some more positivity!

Just some chapters off the top of my head: AGOT Prologue (good horror atmosphere), AGOT Jon (epic diss track), AGOT Eddard XII (Ned’s compassion and Cersei’s humanity), AGOT Catelyn XI and Daenerys X (making the triumphal crowning moment of the heroes so ominous), ACOK Prologue (poor Cressen), all the Blackwater chapters (but especially Sansa VII), ACOK Arya X (she’s done with wooden teeth), ACOK Bran VII (Winterfell is still here), ASOS pretty much all of Samwell and Jon’s later chapters, ASOS Davos IV, ASOS Jaime V-VI (trauma dump then rescue of Brienne), ASOS Arya IV (interactions with Lady Smallwood are so sweet), ASOS Arya XI-XII (she tried so hard, she was almost there), ASOS Sansa V (she escapes!), ASOS Sansa VII (she’s building the snow castle), AFFC Arianne II, AFFC Brienne IV (broken men speech), AFFC Brienne VII (no chance and no choice), AFFC Alayne I & II (she’s showing her skills; also Mya), ADWD Davos I (what if we prevail), ADWD The Dragontamer (poor Quentyn), ADWD Davos IV (the mummer’s farce is over) ADWD Theon I (finally recovering his identity), ADWD Daenerys X (I see dark times ahead)

Basically if anyone gives a cool sounding speech, or there’s payoff to a character arc, I like it

[shippersoftheseventhdawn]

What about Emet-Selch getting passive aggressive and dramatic because he suspects you used the last of the milk that he was saving for his coffee?

This is hilarious!

---

Emet-Selch x Reader - Dramatic Man Screams about Milk - T (for language)

---

"Where's my milk?" You look up from the weapon you were cleaning to look at your... boyfriend? Lover? Strange inter-dimensional immortal pet man? He's scowling at the fridge, and then turns to scowl at you instead. "Where's my milk?" he demands, and you shrug. You're lactose intolerant, you don't touch milk.

Emet-Selch slams the fridge and crosses his arms, staring you down as if that might still intimidate you. You simply look back, eyebrow raised, waiting for him to remember that you don't drink milk. For a moment, it appears that he will, before his scowl deepens.

"My dearest," his voice is like silk, but you're not fooled, "if you admit that you drank my milk, then I promise that your punishment will be minor!" You shake your head. You don't drink milk. Emet-Selch's huffs, tossing his head to move his hair out of his face.

"Fine." he says, and you really hope that's the end of it.

---

That was not the end of it.

Emet-Selch draped himself on the couch around lunchtime, yawning loudly and stretching, before almost nuzzling himself against the arm. "Oh, I'm so tired!" he declared loudly, calling whatever attention he didn't get with his flop. You raise an eyebrow at him. "This is what happens when I don't get my morning coffee! Oh, if only I knew what had happened to my milk, I could have had my coffee and not been so tired!" you roll your eyes, ignoring his behaviour. You head towards the kitchen, planning on making sandwiches. He'll probably steal half of them, when he's done with his mummers farce.

You hear him yawn (very over exaggerated, you don't need to see it to know that) and roll your eyes again.

---

As night falls, you flop into bed, stretching yourself to your full height before curling onto your side, hand reaching out to try and find your usual bed-mate. Nothing. You sigh.

"I've just come for my blankets," Emet-Selch says, appearing and whipping the blankets off of you and wrapping them around himself like a grand cape. "I won't share a bed with a thief!" You roll your eyes again. You flip him off and curl onto your other side, deciding to ignore him until he was ready to have a constructive conversation.

You may be ignoring him for a while.

---

"Thank you for replacing the milk you stole!" Emet-Selch said the next morning, as you eat your toast. Another roll of your eyes. You give him enough time to make his horrendously complex coffee and sit opposite you before you decide to drop the bombshell that he definitely already knows.

"Hey, Emet-Selch?" you say, feeling much more like talking today.

"Yes, dearest?" he replies, smirking at you over his cup. You can't wait to see that smirk wiped off his face.

"You do remember that I'm lactose intolerant, right?" you do your best to keep a straight face, watching the emotions play out over his.

"Fuck!"

[deadmegumi]