#and thats why theyre the only ship i’ve ever actually given a shit about <3< /div> Explore tagged Tumblr posts

[jerreeeeeee]

more and more i find myself interested in the period of time where barry and lup were best friends and sort of both knew they were starting to have romantic feelings but also were both not ready to act on them and continued to be close friends.

like so often i’d resist that sort of story, because they end up in a romantic relationship, and so it feels like that feeds into that narrative of “inevitability,” it feels like it retroactively cancels out the “platonic explanation” for how close they were before, but i don’t think that’s actually true for them? the “inevitability” isn’t that they’d develop romantic feelings, because any friendship that close must eventually become romantic, rather it’s that they happen to develop romantic feelings, and so it’s inevitable that they trust and love each other enough to take their time and change their relationship as they want to, because their friendship means so much to them.

there was a platonic explanation for how close they were before they started feeling romantically and before they started labelling their relationship as romantic, because before all that, their relationship was platonic. they were close friends who loved each other and then they fell in love romantically. they still loved each other equally as much when they were “””just””” friends. if they’d never developed those romantic feelings they’d still be close and love one another. (case in point; their respective relationships to taako, or at the very least lup’s relationship to taako, which is equally close and deep and loving, yet platonic, and in fact directly mentioned as remaining just as important to lup) (and really, case in point their relationships to everyone on the starblaster. in the monologue about lup and barry, griffin takes care to mention that the relationships between everyone on the crew had become indescribably close, and never positions their romance as being “more” than any of the others’ friendships).

the reason i dislike friends to lovers is because usually those stories imply that romance is the inevitable end to a close friendship, that romance is a deepening of a relationship, but taz balance so pointedly does not say that about all its other myriad deep and profound platonic relationships; the narrative, at every turn, fully respects its friendships and platonic bonds, so this one happening to be a romance doesn’t actually bother me. it does actually feel like a choice people made because they felt like it and wanted to, rather than being forced in, and it doesn’t reinforce amatonormative bias, because the story doesn’t.

their ending up as a romance doesn’t invalidate the friendship beforehand, because the friendship was already so deep and valuable to both of them. and honestly, from the way the monologue goes, it seems to me that they weren’t exactly pining, they weren’t longing to deepen their relationship, they didn’t experience distance before becoming a couple; they were together every step of the way. it was already deep and close and loving before they decided to change it, and they took their time because that was how they wanted to do it. not being together romantically never stopped them from spending time together or valuing their relationship or loving one another.

[maivalentine]

Why do “problematic” ships and characters appeal to us?

I really wanted to write up a long post on this subject, seeing the ever growing hate and even IRL bullying that occurs because someone likes a character or ship that is deemed “bad”. A lot of these people say they are abuse survivors and invalidate the feelings of OTHER abuse survivors and it’s really starting to get on my last nerve. A lot of people in fandoms commonly say things like “That doesn’t make sense to me” or “I dont understand it” or “they hate each other (as if we didnt know that already in canon)” .

Another popular thing to do is to claim we crave unhealthy relationships and glorify them to the point where mock posts and comments have been made about those of us that hate/rival ship characters.  Or, if we like an individual character that is a “bad person”. 

Coming from the stance of a physically and emotionally abused person - and from what I have seen in my own fandoms and other people who support characters and ships for the same reasons I do, this is an explanation as to WHY we like these characters and their dynamics. I only speak from my own POV and am in no way trying to paint a picture of everyone who can speak for themselves. 

1) Rival ships :

Why do people LIKE rivals together? Typically they are seen consistently competing and trying to show each other up. Sometimes it’s questioned if they even “like” each other, or if the rivalry ends the relationship ends. There’s several things people like about rivalry. There’s something really attracting about two people getting passionate about each other. At some point it becomes a routine - their routine. Often times the bickering starts out as legit teasing, that turns into friendly banter. There are a lot of people that love the idea of friendly bickering, teasing, and the dramatics of being someones rival. 

Sometimes this doesnt happen in canon. Sometimes we decide on a ship based on their character personalities and how we *think* they would act in a fanon reality. Others can perceive this TOTALLY different which is where the “not understanding” comes from. It’s kinda wilde but different chemistry appeals to different people. Unlike hateships however, rival ships tend to be really friendly. Not always, but usually. Rivals that turn to friends BUT STILL keep their antics is one of the most appealing things about their relationship(s).

2) Hateshipping:

Unlike rivalry (which can exist in hateshipping as well) these characters have made it clear in canon they DO NOT like each other, or have blatantly stated that they hate each other or even that they want to kill each other. The terrible misconception about those of us that ship these (personally, one of my favorite dynamics) is that we support abuse and we “get off” to bruised and beat up characters and we’re twisted. Now while I don’t think there’s anything WRONG with being attracted to that dynamic, for myself and many others I’ve seen in different fandoms, Hateships are NOT about abuse - and they are hardly ever based on canon events unless grabbed to use in fanon + AUs. Hateships tend to branch off from canon and form into fanon AUs where we see this chemistry working if x thing happened, or if x thing developed this way instead, etc.

Hateships aren’t all the same - sometimes we get clue-ins that the two characters are able to respect one another to a certain degree, sometimes characters start out hating each other and that changes, or sometimes they save the other’s life unprompted. Little things like that create more initiative for us to think “huh... this could work if circumstances were different”

A lot of time with hate ships, we see how the two characters personalities mesh together SO WELL even though sometimes they appear as total opposites. Like rivalshipping (which it grabs some similarities from) they have grown into a routine of needing each other in some strange way. And we LOVE to explore that.

Another big thing about ships involving hate, is that they are often written and drawn by fans as a couple that HEALS not a couple that ABUSES one another. It’s usually about healing and forgiveness - confused feelings, and really digging into how these characters really dont actually hate each other at all. The fun part is exploring their complicated relationship.

3) Problematic Characters:

*Characters that experience abuse, but have done unforgiveable things:

People tend to assume that liking a character like this means we glorify them, support what they have done (ex: murder, emotionally damaged others, acted out, caused physical harm to others) and fully support them to the point where we want them to be forgiven for the bad things that they’ve done. It varies for every character, but in most instances that is NOT the case. In fact it’s only a handful that call these types of characters “precious characters that did no wrong” and MEAN it. ( a lot of us joke abt it but arent serious ) 

Like I said at the start of this, as someone who’s been abused in both ways I feel like these characters deserve BETTER. Sometimes abused characters are unfairly treated in canon - they arent given help, their help is taken away from them, their abuse turns them into the awful person they are. We want them to have redemption - we want them to have a fair development. We want abused characters to have some understanding, some respect. We are not saying it’s OK that they physically or emotionally hurt others. We are saying we understand them -- sometimes their actions can reflect an abused persons *impulses* that arent acted on. Abuse pain and the inner turmoil goes deep. Abused characters usually end up with a terrible hand, shitty development, and usually die or never get a chance to be understood. 

*Characters that are mentally ill:

Similar to an abused character (sometimes characters fit BOTH) people think we are saying “theyre mentally ill so we should forgive them and support what theyve done” no . no . no. much like the abused character, we SEE how their illness has effected them and again -- how theyve received no help in canon. Thats why ships involving these characters often revolve around rehab, redemption, healing. Typically with both these types of characters we see glimpses of how they were a good person before their trauma effected them. And we want to see more of that person. We want that person to come to life. Because we almost NEVER see abused or mentally ill characters come out alive or with understanding. 

*Villains:  

I know a lot of people don’t grasp this still, but you can like an evil character just because they are just so GOOD at being bad. It doesn’t make YOU a bad person for liking them. It’s fictional and their actions effect no one in real life. Yes, bad content can cause a trigger or a bad feeling - it can hurt. But liking a bad character does NOT MEAN we support bad feelings // things that happen to REAL people. 

Villains tap into dark fiction and it’s PERFECTLY okay to love horror and twisted things in fiction. Not all villains are 100 percent terrible either. Some start as a villain and become a hero. Sometimes, the other way around (a favorite of mine). Nothing about liking a bad character means that you are a bad person. 

What’s relateable about a villain? They aren’t perfect. They have interesting character development and back stories. Usually very dark things have happened in their lives. Sometimes, villains can draw out sympathy whether you see it personally or not.

People need to respect the fact that not all minds think the same. Abused and mentally ill people, do not exist in some bubble where you personally get to decide what content is right and wrong for them to consume.

People joke about “coping” but it’s true - we DO use fiction to cope sometimes and there’s nothing wrong abt it. We DO enjoy the darker side of things sometimes and want to explore it in fiction. There’s nothing wrong with it, and it hurts NO ONE at all.

If anyone tells you that you are hurting them for liking a fictional character or ship, they’re full of shit, plain and simple. You CAN NOT hurt someone by liking fictional pairings and characters.

It is not your fault if content you like triggers someone. It is not your fault if someone doesnt agree with your personal taste. It’s not THEIR fault either. It’s no one’s fault for triggers (unless we intentionally are trying to hurt someone which is shitty dont do that) and uncomfortable feelings arising for simply enjoying something.

It’s an unfortunate thing - we all handle these things differently. But what we have to realize is that all content is consumed differently and we need to respect that. We need to kindly deal with what makes us hurt (and what makes us not hurt) in a respectful manner.

It does no good to claim people are “rapists” “pedophiles” or “support murderers” for simply liking a character or a ship. You can be disgusted. You can rant. You can vent. You can express yourself no one’s stopping you.

But lines are totally CROSSED when you personally attack a person (who probably experienced some abuse of their own - its ,more likely than you think) or even physically attack a REAL LIFE person over content that they like. 

People have been bullied at cons for liking characters like Goro Akechi or Nathan Prescott . People have been called horrible things for liking characters that are deemed “bad” by others. 

I’m not saying pedophilic or legit horrible content doesnt EXIST nor do I condone it (lines to be crossed here too tbh), but it takes a bit of common sense... a common sense a lot of attackers against “problematic” content do not have.

To end this I want to say the most mind-blowing thing to me is a person claiming to be an abuse survivor and then emotionally or physically attacking ANOTHER ABUSE SURVIVOR (or any other type of person really) over what characters they happen to like. That IS abuse. That IS harassment. And you ARE a part of the problem. 

You are not protecting us by hurting us (ABUSE SURVIVORS AND THE MENTALLY ILL) & others .