#and sqq’s thoughts are all complaining about the contrivance

[phoenixkaptain]

Just had the monumental realization that the biggest difference between Shen Jiu’s Shen Qingqiu and Shen Yuan’s Shen Qingqiu is that Shen Jiu is focused on his own image of himself while Shen Yuan is focused on everyone else’s image of himself.

Shen Jiu gets powerful because he’s tired of feeling powerless. Shen Yuan gets powerful because he wants to impress the disciples. Shen Jiu can’t have Luo Binghe upstage him because it makes him feel weak. Shen Yuan almost wants Luo Binghe to upstage him because he’s in love with Binghe he knows a good disciple will make him look good. Shen Jiu can’t forgive Yue Qingyuan for the ways he feels he’s wronged him and so treats him coldly. Shen Yuan treats him well because he doesn’t want to lose Yue Qingyuan’s favour and also doesn’t want to feel like he doesn’t deserve that favour.

Shen Jiu did a lot of things out of concern for his own pride, including sending Luo Binghe out to fight when he knows Binghe will probably lose.

Shen Yuan does a lot of things out of concern for the sect’s pride and his own image, including sending Binghe out to fight when he knows Binghe will win (and also he didn’t really have a choice, but still)

Shen Qingqiu went from caring about his self-image out of pride to caring about his self-image out of fear of embarrassment.

No wonder nobody believes that Shen Yuan is the same as Shen Jiu. No wonder they all think he must’ve lost his mind alongside his memories. Honestly, if someone I knew went through this dramatic character shift, I’d think he was possessed too.

[llycaons]

surprise! I read volume 1 of svss

conclusion:

okay, on a serious note - I know, I know, but the curiosity was really getting to me, and I like to know what I'm dealing with when I criticize something (if you were following me when I decided to read the mdzs novel, you'll remember I did the same thing then). anon who asked me if I'd ever read it because they wanted to hear my thoughts and I said no - well, if you're still out there, you got your wish. but only volume one (1/4 of the full story). read on for my impression and review.

many thanks to jana @neixins for being my discord reading buddy for this project! her support, insights, and companionship made this far more entertaining than it would have otherwise been

fun fact before we start: I don't know why svss is exclusively referred to by its english acronym, but the acronym for its mandarin title would be RZFZX (full title Rén zhā fǎnpài zìjiù xìtǒng). I suppose svss (or SVS, or SV) is snappier

this is the official translation I'm reading, and the writing style is fine. definitely easier to parse than orv. and the art really is lovely

tw for discussion of grooming, abuse, and rape

brief overview of the plot: protag shen yuan, a modern-day young adult, is reading a long, terrible male power fantasy/stallion novel and complaining about how contrived and stupid it is. he dies at the moment he finishes reading and is transmigrated into the novel in the body of the infamously cruel and sadistic teacher of the protag, shen qingqiu. he knows that the young protagonist of the novel (luo binghe) will enact terrible revenge on the teacher when he grows up for all the abuse he suffered under sqq's hands, so he tries to make nice and get the lbh to like him

shen yuan (now sqq) has to navigate the rules of the system while trying to save his own skin, avoid acting ooc while trying to be nice to the mc, advance the plot, get 'badass points', and resolve the issues that led to the work being of such poor quality. his modern, internal monologue contrasts with his scholarly air in very funny ways, and his constant critiques of the writing are likewise fairly humorous commentaries on lazy and stereotypical writing

however, the parodies of contrived, cliched, and foolish writing tropes do not stop mxtx from writing these very same tropes into later works like mdzs or tgcf, nor does her pointing out those tropes automatically make her book good, so it's an incredibly exasperating experience. I thought she improved since writing mdzs, but it seems like she knows that what she's doing is cliched or pandering but she does it anyway. much like sy, we're exasperated because this could have been a really cool work and the execution is just not what it could have been

this book also has the dubious honor of being the only mxtx book to reference incest without condemning it or recognizing it's disgusting

I do think mxtx has a genuine talent for critiquing sexist and absurd romance tropes for straight couples, but she writes as if whatever gay people do to each other is fine. readers of tgcf and mdzs will know....in fact as much as I hate to say it, the moment in mdzs where wwx apologizes for assaulting lwj is one of the better ways she's handled these things. of course it's ruined later because lwj literally doesn't care he's been raped and they move past it immediately etc. but I would be shocked if the inappropriateness of the svss relationship is EVER addressed, so mdzs may actually be the one where it's handled slightly better. we know the age gap never comes up in tgcf, of course

anyway mxtx makes fun of the idea of a female love interest providing the mc with free therapy while she constructs a scenario in which sqq has to take on a love interest's role of support/inspiration

examples: this is a character that's presented as poorly-wriiten

this is LITERALLY how xuan ji tgcf was written except she hates pm instead of being obsessed with him like was in the past!! don't critique shitty writing for female characters if you refuse to do better!

the characters are not especially noteworthy, and unlike in tgcf or mdzs the mc has no real distinctive style, either visually or personality-wise. almost everyone was either very one-dimensional, unlikable, or just boring imo. I get that we're very early into the novel, but I don't really care about these characters at all. shame because it sounds like the side characters are really fun later on

the modern-day origins of sy make for some funny references - there are mentions of harry potter, and the book he gets isekaid into apparently has a ton of fanfiction

the horror is quite good - some of those monsters are freaky as hell. she always did have a knack for horror

much like mdzs has a ton of literary references, svss has a lot of references to modern films and tv shows, and to things like chinese ads or websites that a modern-day chinese reader would recognize, but that a translator would need to explain. it also does have some proverbs and wordplay as well

as for the elephant in the room: I consider the relationship in this novel to be grooming rather than csa/pedophilia. they may not get together until they're adults, but the mc is 14 years old when sy is isekaid in and there is absolutely already some kind of mutual something going on as early as chapter 1, despite sy criticizing other characters for being creepy with their students and referring to lbh as a child repeatedly. while sqq doesn't act on any of these feelings, it is impossible to ignore in their interactions and it did give me a helpless sense that I was in a horror movie

mxtx toes the line and tries to get away with as much as possible - adult/child relationships and grooming are a joke to her and her readers, something exciting, something fun, but like in tgcf, nothing actually happens

they would have had a much better relationship as simply master and student. or if the romance needed to be there, sy could have been isekaid into one of lbh's peers, as he had plenty of bullies his age - gay love changing the course of the narrative is a fun trope and if they'd been the same age, I genuinely would have enjoyed it. but lbh venerates and hero-worships his teacher, and this kind of power dynamic doesn't just cease to matter once he hits 18. he was an abused and vulnerable child offered kindness and support, and he latched onto and became obsessed with his teacher. getting a crush on a teacher is fine, but it shouldn't have turned into a romance. like tgcf, the issues with the main couple are foundational, but they could have been eliminated by the author just not being a fucking creep

also, sqq is vain and self-centered, and while he treats lbh kindly and praises him, he also treats him like a servant and shamelessly exploits his hero-worship to get good food and manual labor out of him. he's out for his survival so I understand him acting selfishly, but he internally talks down to all the characters he meets if he thinks they're poorly written, and it makes it a nightmare to be in his head for very long bc he's so mean. he is funny, but but he fucking sucks and I dislike him as a main character. compared to wwx and xl, he's the worst main character in terms of personality (even if he's much better than the original sqq)

for specific examples for the inappropriate writing of their relationship, all in this volume:

there are several vague descriptions of ~feelings~ on both sides when they see each other (lbh is 14)

at one point, sqq is poisoned in a way that he knows can only be cured by sex with lbh, and he thinks of it briefly before laughing it off like 'wow that would be CRAZY' as always mxtx, jokes are a great way to handle statutory rape. excerpt:

💀💀💀💀💀

lbh overhears that sqq praised him, and the character he overhears it from is described as a wingman (lnh is 15)

one of the disciples is angry that sqq suddenly favors lbh. excerpt:

after lbh 'dies' at age 17, sqq scolds himself, saying he's acting like a widow who's husband has died

so while nothing romantic or sexual happens this volume, the groundwork is there. see this screenshot from chapter 5 of the novel (originally chapter 30), at the very end of this volume:

if sqq had no attraction to his student, there would be no reason to be so panicked

it's like...nobody acts normally about this. lbh and sqq have the weirdest quasi-flirtatious conversations that skirt the edge of being explicitly romantic/sexual. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this was written to appeal to people who are into age gaps and grooming, if not outright csa. have some more excerpts

like...what IS THIS?

at the end of this volume, lbh is sent away for five years by sqq (he was forced to drop him into a demon abyss bc he needed to advance the plot) so when lbh returns he will be 22 and presumably VERY angry with sqq, and will probably use his newfound power to...torture him? or something? I don't know how their relationship will go from now on, but I have no interest in reading it when I know it's going to end with them as lovers. yeah, even if it does happen when they're both in their late 20s

otherwise, the first few chapters of the novel are extremely funny. it and has a lot of original ideas. but it's difficult to ignore such a premise, and I don't think it's worth it to grit your teeth through unless you have a particular interest in reading this book, to either critique it, enjoy the humor and creativity, or try to figure out why people are so hell-bent on defending it. and honestly by chapter 4 (around ch25 in the original novel), it's not even that funny anymore and the parody aspect has worn out since there's so little of substance to replace it. the og novel is mocked for being a cliched mess, but these are mxtx's actual characters now and she doesn't really seem to do much better with them

the age gap in tgcf is creepy too and I definitely don't like that hc became fixated on xl at a young age, impersonated a little kid, and then reverted back to a little-kid form, but xl not actually knowing him or forming a relationship with him back then is part of why I'm less grossed out about it than I otherwise would be. xl didn't know who hc was when they met and they had barely any relationship when hc was a little kid. he was just a fun guy and they started hanging out together. hc wasn't a young boy placed under his care who he started developing feelings for oh my god I hate sqq so much

there was a side character that sqq describes as 'beautiful' who he had a somewhat antagonistic relationship with who would have been a PERFECT love interest for sqq if he wasn't a fucking creep and im so mad that they didn't become lbh's gay dads instead of whatever the fuck went on

tl; dr: an engaging and original premise with a lot of humor. clever and insightful in many ways, with some great horror scenes, but as in other novels, unable to be normal about gay people and inescapably, unnecessarily ruined by the grooming between the main character and his love interest and the abuse that apparently comes afterwards. also ignorant to its own faults, sexism, and illogical stances even as it parodies others

spoilers for the rest of the book

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according to a beloved mewtual who has provided me summary for the rest (thank you for the info!), the relationship is fucked up for the remainder of the book for completely different reasons

ready? after lbh comes back, sqq is freaked out and doesn't want anything to do with him because he thinks lbh is going to kill him. lbh in fact doesn't want to kill him, but has apparently undergone a complete personality change and is now just a bitter and VERY yandere asshole and proceeds to torment, stalk, harass, torture, and sexually assault sqq until sqq agrees to be in a relationship with him. this abuse and shifting of power dynamics could have been handled in an interesting way, but it isn't, and who's surprised

later in the story lbh is risking qi deviation, so sqq reluctantly (and painfully?) dual-cultivates with him. I heard years ago about some kind of rape torture porn scene and I assume this is what it was referring to

I cannot imagine the appeal this romance holds for fans because this sounds completely fucking miserable and victim-blamy as hell, but uhhh they get married in one of the extras

as for the side characters, a lot of them are kind of doing their own thing? they sound like a ton of fun compared to the main guys. there's a demon snake guy, they're a cool demon lady who's kind of in lesbians with another disciple, there's another gay couple who are like insane and assholes but seem perfect for each other so 👍

anyway bingqiu is abusive but surprisingly not because of sqq, though I haven't forgotten him being creepy about his student this volume either. I can't believe svss was just proto-killing stalking this entire time. aside from glorifying abuse and victim-blaming, that's just so fucking boring. what a disappointment. for all their faults, mdzs and tgcf had legitimately magnificent scenes, complex relationships, interesting plots, heartfelt emotional moments, and compelling characters. no wonder this is the unfavorite of the batch - it's absolutely the worst in every way and it sounds like it doesn't get much better

if you're going to send me anon hate about this like 'your interest is problematic too' or 'let people enjoy things' just save yourself the time and block me first. I absolutely do not care about your opinion and I'll just delete it unless you're explaining something I've misunderstood in good faith. and even then I think so lowly of the fans of this novel I might just delete it anyway, after screenshotting it and sharing it with my mutuals to laugh at. get some fucking taste. that's all