#and now shes grieving aerith so :/. my point is: all the romance is written very in character

[mejomonster]

I finished final fantasy vii rebirth and. Some mixed opinions.

The main good points: as a Sequel to original FF7? Its good. The women are all written well (which was a concern considering Kairi and Lunafreya in past games), and everyone was in character just fleshed out more (with 2 slight exceptions). What the game did best was accomplish an open world game, world spanning adventure, stick fairly well to some main highlights from original ff7 (which is what people wanted for ages) and with new stuff thats fun if you like the world, very little wasting of player time (so much better than ff7 remake). It did open world well, pacing well, side quests and mini games well, characters well, combat well, and overall gave the feel of what square enix was maybe Hoping and Wishing to successfully accomplish in a mainline game for years but either hasnt been able to achieve on a technical level or fumbled in the past. (So no time wasting dungeons like ff7 remake, fleshed out open world with stuff you enjoy doing so more than ff15, open world so more than ff13, and combat that feels like things theyve learned and improved on well). How it feels to play? Great, fast paced, no dead time, all enjoyable game you came to play. (With the exception maybe of Cait Siths box mandatory mini game and the aerith in ancient temple magic platforms thing but they both werent too difficult to push through if you dont enjoy them).

The bad? Mostly... if you treat Rebirth as a SEQUEL to original ff7, these arent major issues. They just annoy me as a player of the original ff7 game. Because i know plenty of people will ONLY play ff7 Remake and Rebirth etc, and never know the original characterizations. So 2 characters were slightly unlike their original ff7 selves, and instead more like their Advent Children (and general non ff7 appearances) selves: aerith and sephiroth. Sephiroth's character being NOT like ff7 originals is more irritating personally. Because yeah... i get it. As a sequel to original ff7, this Remake/Rebirth Sephiroth might be from the future (so he is Advent Children esque version of himself), hes had time post losing his way to really get all mysterious and hyperfocus on cloud and be a looming vague pest. But the thing is... in the original ff7 the reason we learn hes used to be a SOLDIER war hero, is so the cast and you are confused why he kills Shinra people. Then you and the casy figure: well cloud remembers sephiroth finding out hes a monster cause of shinra, justifiable for sephiroth to hate shinra. Unflrtunately Sephiroth also decided to hate ALL HUMANS. Then you later find out maybe Jenovas controlling Sephiroth/one with him etc. But the key here is you find out at some point in original ff7 that sephiroths goal is mainly Destroy World because Hes not Human. Rebirth... does not clarify this very important and very BASIC point ever. Maybe it assumes its so basic that as a ff7 fan you should know.. but plenty of new players wont. Rebirth clarifies yes sephiroth may be Jenovas kid... but the whole MOM, im an ancient like Jenova! Oh Jenova isnt an ancient oh well fuck humans anyway! Either way fuck humans ill kill them all! None of those Very basic sephiroth motives are clarified much. I felt Rebirth did good explaining the Gi and the black materia. But to make Sephiroths motives so vague, why he wants to end the world SO VAGUE, why hes in clouds head (the black robes are everywhere but the game HINTS theure sephiroth clones but never actually spells it out eevn though its a BASIC KEY DETAIL). Now... because Rebirth is a sequel, it makes sense... if hes Advent Children Sephiroth he already knows he isnt an ancient, knows hes Jenovas kid, knows he wants to fuck with Cloud specifically now and the world generally but not necessarily so singlemindedly desperate to just kill all humans. So yes, Sephiroth is in character for his future self... but i feel like even with him less SINGLE MINDED and freshly with Jenova, clarifying some basics of his Original old timeline motives... would be helpful to new fans. So it annoyed me. I think the biggest Not Good writing decision in Rebirth was to never fucking clarify Sephiroths original basic goal: im not human like mom, hate humans, kill world. I suspect the writers either thought players KNEW so hinted instead of being on the nose (but to new players theyll just be CONFUSED), or they plan to explain those basic things in game 3. Which seems stupid to me and shouldve been explained earlier.

And Aerith. As a sequel? She remembered the other timeline which explained some moments she was calmer than original ff7. She forgot, then toward the end of Rebirth she seems to have remembered the other timeline again and that she needs to die and X happens etc. So her being calmer based on the plot they wrote for Rebirth? Makes sense. However... i deeply miss her Original FF7 personality where as an Ancient she freaks out a bit LIKE sephiroth, paralleling him, that shes not human, a freak, that it all rests on her as only one ancient left. Their overwhelm parallels each other. Aerith is more scared in original ff7 of being the only ancient, of what it means, of finding out more. That fear is slightly there in Rebirth but WAY LESS. its only a little in cosmo canyon and almost gone in the Ancient Temple. In ff7 expanded universe theyve changed her character over time to a calmer wiser goddess type like in Advent Children, and so yes in Rebirth when she remembers the alrernate timeline it makes sense she'd be calmer like her future self. However... i miss original ff7 aerith. I miss her initial shock, loneliness, fear of the weight on her shoulders, not being sure what to do. Her and Sephiroth, because of Rebirth writing them to know more, act more like their future selves and so. While it is in character and logical to the Rebirth plot. Its also sad to me that anyone who only plays Remake and Rebirth simply wont see what they were like WHEN these revelations were brand new shocks to them, forcing them to react and grow and fear. I dont think Aerith is written bad, i just think because this game is in reality is a Sequel im just personally mourning that it didnt have that as much of the original Aerith's personality who was afraid and discovering. Mostly her Rebirth personality is similar to original ff7s. But in some high tension moments shes way calmer and wiser than in the original. I miss getting to see some of that before to after character growth.

Oh and. The aerith dies scene. Does it make sense in context of Rebirth written as a sequel? Sure. Is it impactful? Not as much as the original. In Rebirth, theres a scene where Cloud is losing control and listening to Sephiroth and attacks Tifa, causing Tifa to fall into mako. That scene is high stakes and emotional and lands WELL. Later in Rebirth, when Aerith actually dies, Cloud has not lost control and isnt the one who killed her. Its fine, as a sequel to ff7 i get the choice to make him able to stop himself from hurting her. But it does make the scene less impactful: now cloud will NOT be blaming himself for her death, will not be struggling with the guilt and fear, and will not be as terrified of losing control again. Since he wasnt the one who attacked her. And since he saw her ghost/something post death, hes not even sad or grieving her. He thinks shes fine. These 2 things will result in a WILDLY DIFFERENT cloud moving forward than the original ff7 one who very much was distraught and horrified he did that. So like... as a sequel its fine these changes were made. But death wise... i wouldve prefered like, cloud drops her from up high qhile struggling with whispers, or doesnt get to her in time and sephiroth stabs her when shes too far away. The way Rebirth did it, cloud was near her, she gets stabbed anyway. It seemed to me almost like the writing was trying to vaguely or softly kill her, like somehow making it vague would make it hurt less. Yeah it did hurt less... but id rather if a character i love dies that its a Worthy Scene for them to die in. A strong meaningful scene that makes me cry, that felt like the loss it is. The Rebirth scene... couldve done its plot as intended and just make Cloud farther away or something and it wouldve been better to me. Maybe the writing point was Cloud thinks its fine, and its still not, and he cant even feel distaught because he cant tell if she died or if things are fine? Thats the only angle i can see where maybe the death scene did what the writers wanted? Anyway. Aeriths moms death made me sob, Aeriths death did not. It is what it is. I feel like Tifa, crying in my heart off screen, the game acting like Cloud like its fine and it looks fine to him but im confused like Tifa aa to why hes (the game) treating it that way. Lol.

Overall? Um 4/5. 8/10? Really solid square enix game, Amazing as far as final fantasy 7 SEQUELS go. It has one main weak spot in treating Sephiroth fully mysterious when a few clarifying details could help the game stand on its own Better (and make Sephiroth a stronger enemy character instead of a vaguer one). The other weak spots are more my personal preference and mourning the parts of ff7 original i miss and had wished were in this, but as this is a Sequel in a parallel timeline i dont feel the parts effect Rebirth on its own merit. It IS the best Square Enix game ive played in ages, at least since Final Fantasy X or XII. I thought it was better than FF13, FF15, definitely better than ff7 remake (i hate time wasting dungeons and bad pacing its a dealbreaker), and than kh3 (although kh3 was quite good for a kh sequel). I get to play FF16 next, which will hopefully be as good as Rebirth or better! Since its also on the PS5 and clearly from Rebirth, the square enix main team can do excellent combat, open world, level design, mini games, side quests, and good pacing now. So i'll just have to see if ff16's story is better. And i am guessing it hopefully will be, since Rebirth as an ff7 sequel has some weirdness to its plot quite typical of ff7 extended universe stories like Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus. Whereas ff16 is a brand new plot, so they have nothing preventing them from a tight excellent written story except themselves. I am curious how BIG ff16s world will be though. Because ff7 Rebirths world was MASSIVE and very full of stuff, tons of mini games, cool stuff to find or do or little character side quests. If ff16 also takes me 60 hours to beat the main story its gonna be thw longest final fantasy main title ive ever played.

Rebirth is very replayable if you enjoyed it. I will probably replay ff7 original soon.

[worldofcloti]

Long meta of Anon regarding Cloud, Tifa and Aerith [LTD]

Re-arranged it in order since this since the anon asks have the first one in the bottom of my inbox. Also separated the paragraphs. I have an answer under the cut as well. 

Anonymous said to worldofcloti: May I say something since we’re somewhat on the topic of ltd and fandoms? Prefacing this saying I’m definitely a Cloti fan and only a CT fan but I don’t deny Klerith (I think that’s how we’re referring to them here), at least not my version of them. In fact, I think they’re a necessary stop on the road of CLOTI’s relationship and helps bring them closer. Now this probably sounds cruel but please hear me out. I see Aerith as someone who has a very positive effect on every person she encounters(1)

This included Cloud, and Tifa, and the whole gang. In the beginning of the game Cloud is in a horrible mental state, we know that, he’s battling his demons. And Tifa can’t help him because she’s battling her own demons and she has an introverted personality. I think that’s where it’s necessary for Aerith to come in and help them. Both. She brings lightness to them. Helps guide them towards the light, fun, positivity, which they couldn’t do by themselves. And while it’s ultimately Tifa who (2) heals his mind, and could only be Tifa because of their past, imo Aerith pushed them towards this AND I also headcanon that she also gave them a push in the lifestream. Her character and actions also had an effect on Tifa helping her realize her feelings and to become more active in pursuing what she wants. I also think both of them loved Aerith albeit differently, but I don’t think that Cloud was IN love with her. It just did not happen in the game that I played.

I know everyone has their (3) playthrough and this was mine, there were no straight romantic Klerith scenes in my game but I think they had positive feelings towards each other. I think she will always be in his heart but not as this one true love. Cause even if she were alive I still don’t see how after regaining his self the boy from Nibelheim who did so much for Tifa for years, and Tifa who had feelings for him for years and then did so much for him would not end up together. But this is my interpretation. And I have (4)  no problem with others having another. My only problem is with the version where a 21yo Cloud must live the rest of his life alone waiting for death to reunite with the girl he supposedly loved, I have aversion to this strictly as a Cloud fan cause I find this incredibly cruel and selfish of fans, wanting for Aerith to be allowed to move on from Zack, but not giving same courtesy to Cloud. Tiduna and Noctluna are often mentioned as examples to strengthen this theory but I strongly disagree. (5)  

Yuna and Tidus only had each other as romantic partners. And while Yuna did wait 2 years she was too busy during that time to think of romance, and X-2 shows that she was ready to move on, one of the endings even has her moving on, and as much of a Tiduna fan as I am, if Tidus never came back I would never wish for a 19yo girl to wait for him forever. Noctluna, well, is one of the weakest FF romances tbh, not a good thing to be compared to, but even here we have both of them dying almost at (6) the same time. Yes, there’s 10 year time skip but he hasn’t lived that, he lived very little time without her. And both these examples have one huge factor not considered for some reason: TIFA. 

None of these pairs had a third person for whom protagonist had canonical reciprocated feelings for for years (whether he still has those or not are maybe up to interpretation but still important point) so the comparison falls moot for me. Not to mention if we parallel Tidus and Luna with Aerith for (7) their death, we can also parallel them with Tifa, e.g. for childhood feelings lasting for years. I might also mention my problem with compilation and AC. While for me it solidifies Cloti 100%, I still don’t like how it does it. I’m against the fact that Aerith of all people was used as a character whose memory brings depression to Cloud, to Tifa, children they’re raising. I think it’s a disservice to her and a cheap trick by SE in an attempt to bring her back and fan service her/Klerith fans.(8) 

Especially since in OG her smile was used as a motivation in before battle speech (where, btw, Tifa was the one who showed bigger understanding of her character). So I don’t see how or why use AC as a romantic evidence when Aerith is used for such negative effect on Cloud. This came out huge omg I’m so sorry. But anyway I wanted to talk about how I don’t fully deny Klerith even as a Cloti fan, but how my view of it differs from their fans, & I’m fine with everything except that one scenario. (9)

You brought up a lot of points and thanks for sharing them to us. At first, I’d like to say that I am limited to what I can say since this blog is strictly pro-Cloti and not about debunking Klerith evidence. Although, I unapologetic-ally rant about bad treatment of characters in the fandom. 

> I agree a lot on positive feelings. Aerith may have had a troubled childhood but she has become a well-adjusted adult, contrary to Tifa and Cloud with serious trauma and haven’t recovered from them [in Cloud’s case, it’s a full false persona]. Aerith is someone that added fun to the party, and she is the one excited to get out of Midgar and have an adventure. On the LTD side, I think Tifa would have waited for a longer time to make a move on Cloud without Aerith around, she definitely was a competition to Tifa.

> Aerith helping Cloud and Tifa  in the Lifestream is in the short story Maiden Who Travels the Planet. I think it’s canon, although a secondary source rather than a main entry.

> I agree that Tifa is the end game love interest, although I would say she doesn’t have an explicitly romantic scene either. On Aerith, as much as Cloud grieved for her, I don’t think they became intimate. 

> Parallels are generally a weak proof and more of just cuteness. I am limited to the rebuttal I can say in this blog but I hate if characters are misrepresented. Yuna moved on as early as FFX, especially with her speech about rebuilding Spira, having new homes, but never forgetting those who were lost. Just because she grieves for Tidus in FFX-2 it doesn’t mean she has no intention of loving again. I would also say that any couple compared to Noktluna is being insulted, because it is one of the worst written romances I have seen in a video game.  While I dislike interpreting the story based on guidebook quotes, Square Enix is has actually been explicit in some parallels with FF romances in the Cloti side as well: http://danseru-kun.tumblr.com/post/40338671251/cloud-and-tifas-feelings-for-each-other. You can search other “fanservice” tagged posts in this blog.

> I like your thoughts on what Aerith represents and AC being about grieving for her, but personally I see it as a natural emotional process. Cloud was not only upset because of Aerith, but also because of Zack and Denzel. Cloud is a mentally weak person and suffering some serious trauma and guilt for his past failures. Despite hitting a low point, I love how Cloud found strength in AC through the help of his friends, both the living and the departed. It ended on a very positive note for all characters involved. This is why I hate interpretations of AC as romance.

You might like my meta on Aerith here: http://danseru-kun.tumblr.com/post/141774984234/aeriths-journey-to-the-promised-land