#and ngl there’s a criminally lacking amount of stuff for these two

[kelpermoosee]

It’s a booigi kind of night 💚💜

[bma-2020]

W/ONDERLAN/U/NDERLAND DIVERGENCY

            Now much of this divergency stems from varying factors, the main being: A: while the first movie had a good storyline, it didn’t delve as deep as it could have. B: obviously, certain actors have done some things so for my editing capabilities, i had to change his fc. C: I’m someone who very much likes to take a base and work beyond what i know the company would ever give, which is why i take the base of burtonverse and the game, as well as companion guide, and move beyond that. D: My blog is very much based in a verse where a spell happened and all the animals are no longer animals, which screws with people. and E: because ttlg was a hot mess on the major scale and as someone who half finished her own sequel to the first movie, barely acknowledge ttlg’s existence beyond regular whining.

            So in the essence of the changes i’ve taken, both for my blogs purpose to keep the b/urtonverse name… possible, but also for my own safety since i’ve dealt with people coming at me for something that isnt my fault, isn’t related, or otherwise just shows that theres a lot of uneducated adolescents on this website that actually believe telling people to kill themselves either for differing opinions or lack of knowledge on a topic or person, i’m severely trying to avoid dealing with those people. So this is a wild mesh of thoughts not put together anywhere nearly as well as it could be, but im doing my best with my limited amount of free time and non chemical thought process as i am capable.

            now nobody cares abt that stuff so lets get into the changes, rewrites, and divergency, shall we?

            Now in my Underland (Which I know is different from Wo/nderland, but i do still think having it not be called w/onderland was a stupid idea therefore my calling it wonderland is both shade and because i type it quicker) its been several years since Alice’s visit (probably a lot less for her, if even a year, Gina had this cool time post for s/yfy alice that i keep alive every few months by regularly reblogging it so I’ll probably go find that and bring it back again later. ) and there’s been a magical outbreak– things creeping up which had long been deceased, spells cast to make nearly all the animals humanoid (the horses werent lucky enough, and it didn’t effect ches/hire because chesh already had a human form, and the capability to transform into whatever he pleased to a point), and it screws with a lot of minds for awhile, but something about being humanoid felt familiar to Mally.

            Now, something which they never fully explained was how everyone knew each other. The game hints at them all knowing each other for awhile, many factors hint at St/ayne being a heavy influencer in the game, and likely having done something to the Queens relationship ( which, of course, was all dropped in the sequel because god forbid they give crispin more money), and i refuse to believe what ttlg gave us was anything close to what it actually was (especially with the lack of stay/ne, who played such a major role in the first movie that it makes no sense for him not to be in their past)

            this is gonna be long, and be depth for a lot of characters. A good deal of Stay/ne by my opinions and headcanons can be read on my sta/yne sideblog (illosovic) in his about, and that blog is mostly just me whining abt ttlg but whatever. Most else can be read here, but i will touch on st/ayne some here, too.

TEA TRIO

            Obviously the part most people care about, and with the face i actually chose for S/tayne, Sebby is not only one of the better actors to play a hatter imo (i legitimately only watched ouat for him ngl) even though he has done it before, i do feel like in the version i adapted from b/urtons and the hatter we had from b/urton anyways, seb could pull off the personality fluctuations as well as the insanity best. I was honestly torn on the alternate for a long time because i didnt want to use someone who’s played a hatter before, but all in all, who better to play a hatter than someone who has played a hatter and absolutely killed it.

            anyways, the actual important part of this is, Everything ttlg had regarding mally in the past, that shiz aint real here. M/allymkun was born shortly before the R/ed Queen took over W/onderland, after her biological father was framed as a war criminal, her mother turned her into a mouse, and abandoned her in a clearing the forest by Witzend, and after the King and Queen already died, and Mi/rana was set to take over. I actually see it as Mirana hadn’t been Queen for that long before I/racebeth took the crown, because the longer M/irana was Queen, the less sense the story makes in my opinion, which I will get into.

            Thackery is actually who found Mally, and that was after the H/ightopp residence had been burned down. Mally never learned about Hatter’s former name, at least not until C/heshire told her, because she never knew him as anything but Hatter.

            Whilst out looking for something that could be of help to them (Years before the Oraculum was found), Thackery came across a tiny thing left alone beneath a large leaf. She was extremely tiny, frail, didn’t seem like she’d survive long. Neither of them were sure of her species yet, but Hatter took to taking care of her. She was raised by the Hatter and the Hare, and much of who she is comes from the two of them.

            As with the fact she didn’t know either Queen, nor Sta/yne prior to Irace/beth’s takeover, Mallymkun never really came to know what the real personality of any of them was. She knew Ira/cebeth was evil, St/ayne was her lapdog, and M/irana was the truest good, because that is what Hatter told her. Hatter raised her, Hatter trained her, and the main reason Mally knew Miran/a could have the potential of acting just as bad as her sister was because she saw a moment in which Mira/na went dark. But she believed Mir/ana had to be the better ruler, because Hatter said so!

            Each held their own capabilities, T/hackery with his minor Telekinesis (often used only with teacups, but occasionally bolders as well.), Hatter with his ability to conjoin objects in his mind, as long as they were able to fit together (worked brilliantly with creating delicacies in food, something both he and Th/ackery could do) but Mally wasn’t like that. She had none of the gifts they possessed, which led to Hatter teaching her much more fighting techniques, Thackery as well, until she had to start teaching herself the rest. Her physical capabilities go far beyond that of most of those in Won/derland, in spite of her small size. (only grew stronger when she got bigger.

           Mally had once gone undercover in the Red Kingdom, which she doesn’t entirely remember. An accidental mishap caused her to turn humanoid then, and St/ayne quickly figured out who she was– hard not to when she looked so much like her mother. He’d taken to manipulating her, which she fell for for a time, even developing a slight crush on St/ayne himself, though she saw his true nature not long after, and more of a fear grew from that.

C/HESHIRE CAT

There actually aren’t many changes to the C/heshire Cat, or many additions I’ve made personally (my friends who write him do a far more beautiful job of that.) I do include the reference in the book, however, where The Du/chess views the Che/shire Cat as her pet. Whilst C/hesh doesn’t see himself as her pet, he does take advantage of her spoiling of him. C/heshire also wasn’t exactly effected by the spell, since he already could transform into a humanoid form, as well as copy others. 

THE RE/D KNAVE 

Il/osovic S/tayne, has the most changes I’ve made next to mally. Mostly due to the fact that his character, in my opinion, was extremely underused. With all the hints and inferences made for his character, they didn’t really deliver. He could easily have been the real main villain, much of what happened could easily have been caused by him, much of which I have here, though I do have to make edits to that. 

Mainly, I view Sta/yne as the whistleblower. he purposely ensured the rift already forming between the siblings grew worse, he set them up against each other, he was behind every bit of the plot, or encouraged it forward, just to ensure he had a shot at whichever queen became superior. He lost with M/irana, he wasn’t going to lose with Irace/beth. He couldn’t stand being around Ir/acebeth, but like hell was he gonna let her know that. He’d flirt, he’d manipulate, and he’d slyly degrade her until she felt like she needed him. He emotionally manipulated her to the point he was in control, and he wasn’t planning on letting that control slide.

He was also, at one point, friends with Hatter. St/ayne was a poor boy growing up, but Ta/rrant hardly judged him, but as St/ayne grew bigger, jealousy over how his sister was treated with love, whilst his mother harmed him, his brother was popular and he was ignored, and his growing desire to gain so much power, nobody could hurt him again, that forged a rift in their friendship. By the time they were adults, and Sta/yne already hurt M/irana, he encouraged the destruction of Hatter’s village and family, shattering whatever bond they formed as kids, as well as ensuring Hatter knew what pain was. Something, he felt, he did not know.

WHI/TE RABBIT

Whi/te Rabbit, by contrast, is starkly different. M/cTwisp is an agent of Time, fulfilling his role as the guide to Alice, and M/cTwisp is likely older than most others– though, in some situations, he hardly realizes it himself. His only responsibility is to guide Alice to her destiny, each time the clock turns. Sometimes, when a new Alice is born, he forgets himself, practically reborn in the moment. He’s a stopwatch given to him by Time itself, allowing M/cTwisp to temporarily freeze Time in a moment to accomplish a task, and the time traversement of Wonderland’s portals through other realms (many of which transfere through M/cTwisps own halls), Time never passes for M/cTwisp. Not in the sense it does for others. Whilst months would pass for a normal creature who left Wonderland and returned a week later, hardly a day would pass for M/cTwisp. Time always occurs as a constant for him, no matter how it occurs for others. He is also capable of traversing to exact points in Upperland’s time should he need to. 

MOCK TURTLE

    An extremely apathetic man, the Mock Turtle was never entirely a turtle, and never entirely anything else. He longed for the days he was in the sea, until he was cursed to live between lands. A ‘teacher’ in a way, though his version of school far different than others are accustomed to. He ‘taught’ the Queens, but eventually was sent off back to the sea by the King for disrespecting M/irana during a lecture, mostly for stating she hadn’t the heart to be a Queen, she barely had the heart to swim in the sea. He had been particularly kind to Ira/cebeth, however.

THE CATERPILLAR

A//bsolem, the wise. Many view him as the all knowing in Wonderland, yet many still only hear him talk in riddles and puzzles. Mallymkun really hates the way he talks, tbh. She hates how he makes a point to make it so you have to figure something out on your own. But, she likes how his words can be taken wrong and prove her point, even if her point is actually wrong. 

DODO BIRD

Uilleam held full belief in Alice, and, after narrowly escaping the Jub Jub bird, would later return to his post as a mentor in the W/hite Queen’s court. A nobleman, he’s seen as wise, often kind, though he holds the mentality that nobody should have to lose for one to win– something that kept him from fighting in the war at the start. He is extremely good with kids, but many adults tend to dislike him, except when he takes their side. In certain situations, however, he will state that there needs to be a winner, which is what led to him finally taking part in the resistance, and helping to take the R/ed Queen down. 

BAYARD

The most loyal of beings, Ba/yard was forced to serve the R/ed Queen for a great deal of time, but only so he could protect his wife and pups. M/allymkun used him as a sort of horse due to her size at the time, and he hadn’t minded. Often, he comes over to Mally, acting much like a father figure to her, as he does on occasion with Alice. Ba/yard cares far more for people than he likely should, but would risk anyone else for the safety of his kids and wife, whom he holds in the highest of regards. 

THE QUEENS

The tart thing was the stupidest thing i’ve ever seen, i’m just pointing that out right now. I believe there was a rift long before any incident. I/racebeth’s accident wasn’t M/irana’s fault, and M/irana never meant to be malicious to her sister. Ira/cebeth was spoiled when she was young, but when M/irana was born, most of her parents attention went to her– and I/racebeth was left mostly to her tutors, trying to raise her to being a good queen. 

S/tayne was initially attracted to M/irana, though he played nice with both princesses. When they were younger, S/tayne had started courting M/irana– though, it was kept private, the lowly stable boy (though, eventually gaining a promotion to a knight, with the held of M/irana) being considered too lowly for a princess. Though, S/tayne often had a wandering eye, and betrayed M/irana– which led to her lashing out on him, and causing his loss of an eye.

He kept his position, having glamored his way into the hearts of the princesses parents (a gift which ran in his family– he could bewitch and charm others into falling in a form of love with him, trick them into adoring him, manipulate to new bounds.) M/irana never trusted him again. The eye was ruled as an accident on assignment, and the rumors of Mi/rana’s mistreatment of a man she wasn’t officially with (S/tayne, spreading the rumor that a woman flirted with him, and whilst he hadn’t responded, the disastardly princess was so filled with jealously over not getting her way for once, she harmed him for it. ) grew, and he ensured I/racebeth would learn his version. 

I/racebeth, already feeling emotional distraught from her parents, became an easier target for S/tayne. When their parents died ,and M/irana was labeled next in line, S/tayne took it as a chance to send Ir/acebeth into a fit of rage, and have her J/abberwocky attack the H/ightopp clan, taking the crown and becoming the Queen. He also whispered the rumors of infidelity of I/racebeth’s husband to her people, ensuring Ir/acebeth would hear of the faults. The Red K/ing’s demise being an aftereffect of St/ayne ensuring Ira/cebeth thought he cheated on her with M/irana, an ultimate crime, and S/tayne made sure he was there to pick up the pieces. His adoring of her keeping his place held high, and ensured he got his way.

ALICE

breathes in, breathes out, M/ALLYMKUN DOESNT HATE ALICE!!!! NOT IN THE JEALOUSY SENSE!!! In fact, Mally’s distaste for Alice goes far beyond the stupid jealousy people think it’s about. Because, don’t forget, when Hatter said Alice was the right Alice, her treatment of Alice instantly changed– she was nice to her, she answered her questions, it was when Hatter’s life was put at risk because of Alice that Mally treated her badly again.

In the sense of my blog (and, when Mally first unlocks her powers, mostly) Alice had finally come back. Hatter missed her, and she left without a second thought. Mally didn’t like how Hatter perked up at Alice’s return, she hated how he suddenly started caring more for her than his friends, in her sights. 

She wasn’t jealous, Mally might have been in love with Tare, but she didn’t care if he didn’t fall in love with her. For flips sake, she stated directly that she thought he had a thing for M/irana, and seemed all dreamy about the idea.  You know she was shipping whitehats. 

But, Alice was just a child when Mally first saw her. Mally was training all her life to be a hero, she wanted to be the one to save Wonderland, then they found the o/raculum– and Alice was the labeled hero. Alice, upon returning, didn’t want to be the hero, and Mally hated that fact.

Mally was afraid, but she jumped at the chance to take Alice’s place as the hero. But she wasn’t allowed, she couldn’t save the world, that was Alice’s responsibility. 

And Alice only killed one creature.

And she was the hero.

Mally trained all her life for that, and she was pushed aside for Alice. Mally had been with Hatter through her entire life, she’d seen him at his lowest (including a time he couldn’t control his own actions anymore, an older headcanon of mine where he had accidentally hurt her because of his swings, which is what caused him to become so guilt ridden, he started being able to more easily be pulled from that state of mind– he didn’t want to hurt his friends ever again.) M/allymkun loved Hatter through everything, she never left him, she never left her friends, she stayed with them and she did everything she could to save them. 

But Alice was he hero.

And when Alice comes back again years later, and they’re faced against S/tayne again, Mally’s put in mortal danger.

But Hatter goes to Alice first.

not because he thinks she’s more important, Hatter weighed in the options, he thought Mally would be able to pull herself out of trouble, but Alice might not be able to. He went to Alice because he didn’t think she could save herself like Mally could. But that caused Mally to fall, and disappear for weeks while people thought she was dead. This is what broke the spell her mother placed on her, blocking her powers from being used, and keeping the rest of her family from being able to find her, but she was left abandoned, alone, and in pain, because Alice came first.

And Alice, thinking with her worlds point of view instead of theirs, thought Mally couldn’t have survived the fall. There wasn’t a way she could have lived from where she fell, and no way she could have gotten out of the water.

Mally thought they didn’t bother to look, but their search efforts were pointless.

She came back, she found out Alice said something, and she thinks her pain is Alice’s fault. If Alice wasn’t around, they could have found another way to defeat I/racebeth, they could have wom another way. Any Mally wouldn’t have had to experience pain.

Then there was the fact the marks of her father’s bloodline started appearing on her skin, marks remembered belonging to a clan that tried to destroy the royalty. Up until her father (whom nobody knows was her father), who fought for the King, was his greatest warrior, and was set to marry either M/irana or I/racebeth. He hadn’t, and her mother framed him to have killed the King and Queen. He disappeared, and the family was forever seen to be a collection of traitors.

Mally didn’t know any of that, she can’t even read to learn about further history beyond I/racebeth’s betrayal. 

People treated her differently, and she could only hold Alice responsible for that. 

Mally doesn’t hate Alice because she’s jealous of her and Hatter, she’s pissed off that Alice was (accidentally) the cause of her pain, and thinks that if Alice weren’t around, she wouldn’t have had to suffer at all.

Though, certain things started the second Mally became a humanoid– her eyes were different, but the resemblance to her mother was too strong to be ignored. It was pretty clear she was Feina’s daughter, especially to M/irana and I/racebeth– they had to see it, because they grew up with Feina, and spent a fair bit of time under her care. 

THE D/UCHESS

The D/uchess was a childhood friend of the Princesses, thought she wasn’t a royal at the time. Her mother was the former Duchess, and her father had died at a young age, shortly after her younger brother, I/losovic was born. Their mother treated her and her brother with great care, but I/losovic was treated with terrors– often beaten, no matter what he did. This was due to the work their mother took up to keep them in position, even if they no longer were wealthy as they were. Allergies were formed which led to a great deal of violence on their mothers part, and I/losovic held the closest range to her. 

Upon becoming a Duchess herself, she was always kind and well treated. C/heshire being a dear friend of hers, whom she considered her dear pet. Often she’d treat him to the greatest of delights. 

However, her friendship with the Queens had shattered overtime, due to I/losovic ensuring she held some form of hardship– he tricked the siblings into believing her horrid and evil, trying to tear the titles from their hands and steal their father from their mother. The D/uchess was banished, once the R/ed Queen took control, though she never took full stride in it. The only one who knows her whereabouts is C/heshire. 

MALLYS EXTENDED FAMILY

Her biological father, Vas Moraj. He is Gethris younger half brother, and is known to be the strongest, and most strange member of their family. The Moraj line was long known to be filled with traitors to the court, but Vas wanted to protect the royalty. He was the child of Fate, and though not exactly a deity himself, did possess far stronger powers than the rest of his family. He’d fallen in love with Feina in his youth, and had an affair with her,which led to Miseris and Mallymkun. He also raised her elder children, Seracien and Torielle, as his own. He wasn’t around when Mally and Mason were born, though, as Feina had trapped him in a pocket universe, to keep him out of her way. 

Feina Laquer Morae, an extremely powerful sorceress. She was only around 20 or so years older than the Queens, and being Wonderlands slowed aging, appeared around their age most of her life. She trained Mirana briefly in magic arts, and always tried to encourage Iracebeth not to let go of her title, that she could be the greatest queen of all, so long as she didn’t take no for an answer. A creature of chaos, and an empath, Feina held the power to force horrid memories back on a person, to force emotions on someone through touch, and held telepathy and telekinesis, among other things.  Her powers hadn’t transferred to Mallymkun nearly as much as her looks– out of all four of her children, Mallymkun held the greatest resemblance to her. 

Miseris, or Mason, for short, was raised by his uncle (whom he believed to be his father), Gethris. He was raised with the impression that his cousins, Jynx and Hayze, were his sisters, but over time, as his powers over the mind increased, he came to learn the truth. Especially when he met his elder half siblings (half cousins), and Seracien told him the truth. The rest, Mason worked out for himself, and he knew two things for sure– he was going to be one of the strongest members of his family, and when Mallymkun grew her powers, their powers combined could make them deities. 

Gethris horribly mistreated his own children, manipulating them into his own persnoal servants, and he hadn’t done much better with Miseris. Gethris partnered with Feina to destroy Vas, which feina agreed once she learned Vas was intending on denying the King’s wishes, so he could marry Feina instead of the princess. Gethris only got his hands on one of the twins, however, as Feina betrayed her half of the deal before he betrayed her. A spell was placed on Mallymkun, which kept her powers hidden away, her appearance altered into a mouse-like form, and her overall existence from Gethris knowledge or ability to find. As Gethris lost his powers centuries before, he planned on using Vas children to fulfill the prophecy– for their family to ascend– only he intended on taking Miseris and Mallymkun’s powers for himself, and destroy the rest of Wonderland.

When Gethris had gotten ahold of Mally, he tortured her in attempts to unlock all of her power. Miseris eventually let her out, and she ran off, Though, Gethris is always searching, and didn’t plan to stop.

TIME, SPACE, FATE (not pictured)

each their own being. Fate defines the future, Time controls itself, and Space alters and holds between each realm. Fate chose to enhance the Moraj family through leaving a piece of themself in Vas, and create the prophecy regarding Mallymkun and Miseris. 

Time is seen more as a neutral character, caring about securing itself through the world, and keeping fate’s reign.

space is above itself, but fate decides the ultimate. 

I do have a lot of other characters and info, but that can be saved for a …shorter post…

[theworldgate]

Now that I’m done with the avatar change, some somewhat spoilery thoughts on the epilogues are due!

And some non-spoilery ones first: Both of them are ‘creepy’ for want of a better word, though this seems to be mostly intentional (the more “wait is this meant to be creepy or not” stuff is in Candy; I can’t recall something like that in Meat). Like, I suppose this is a somewhat spoilery thing but also there’s a massive wall of trigger warnings, and it comes before the choice for a reason.

I think Meat sticks the landing better.

I hope you aren’t too attached to two particular Alpha Kids <laughs in ‘literally just changed my avatar from one>. I think it’s compensating for the actions of them in ‘canon’ that didn’t age well, and I’ll stop before getting into spoiler territory.

Gamzee makes everything terrible.

Seriously, Meat is pretty solid, though I can see why it’s polarizing. I’m not sure I want to read it again, but I’m also not sure that I don’t.

The second part of that sentence doesn’t really apply to Candy. I think it does provide some key context. Probably. But meh, a lot of it isn’t my sort of thing, and there’s a plotline kind of but it doesn’t go anywhere.

There are strong satirical elements and the issue is that, especially in Candy, it gets a bit muddled as to, like, how satirical it is.

This one is a spoiler a bit, but I think putting it above the cut is in the same spirit as the warning tags: there might also need to be one for Gaslighting.

There is a LOT of content there; that I finished it within a few hours reflects that I have the literal exact reading speed that Spencer Reid from Criminal Minds brags about when it comes to fiction. Also ngl I did kind of skim some of the relationship stuff in Candy. But also there being a lot of content means that this is not going to be comprehensive.

Not to mention that there are some explicit callbacks that could really do with links.

And into the spoilery stuff:

Honestly, you would think Vriska would have a bigger role given that there are 8 epilogues in each? She also provides one of the “I think this is meant to be creepy but I can’t tell???” moments in Candy. (well, I mean (Vriska), but the one who wasn’t in brackets during the canon but acquires them)

The Gamzee ‘redemption arc’ stuff really did not need to be dragged throughout the literal entire Candy epilogues. I mean, the core of the joke is pretty funny (it’s very dark humour, but still), but it’s eggs it a bit too much and Alive Calliope’s rationale for it is confusing and seriously Jane went full fash like 10 chapters before, have her do something to get him out the story before that. Like, it’s sort of what I got mad at wildbow for what (I thought) he was doing with March in Ward late last month, except if March also did nothing actually plot relevant and was just there being obnoxious. I mean, I’m glad the Homestuck comparisons still stand (though I think the content of Candy in particular vindicates Wildbow for drawing his lines where he does as far as sex stuff goes).

Oh, yeah, right. Jane went full fash. Twice. In one timeline I’d actually be willing to chalk it up to “yeah, this is a Dirk idea”, but he full on removed himself from the timeline (... suicide feels like an odd word when it’s not-unlikely that that Dirk did it in order to merge with Dirk Prime) and she just kept at it. Her actions, and the responses of the cast to it (universal horror by the end) definitely fall into the things I was thinking about with the level of satire being muddied. I can sort of see the point, but I think Hussie Hussied too hard and... it does actually read like a not-terrible-but-not-great-edgy-AU fanfic now I think about it. Like, the resistance is totally a stock fanfic setting for Homestuck. Huh.

Also, like... poor Jake and Tavros.

It actually nails Kanaya’s voice reasonably well? Which, yeah, makes sense, Promstuck is like the only fic I can think of that features her heavily and actually pulls it off (she is... not lacking in smoothness, but also not particularly interested in being a force of seduction), and from urbanAnchorite’s other fics I’m pretty sure that’s down to cephied_variable.

And that actually does bring us to our sometime narrator of Meat: Dirk. He’s actually a pretty well written villain. Very much in the Lord English vein which, like, makes sense given his handling of Caliborn and how the latter seemed to like him. Said handling was also the thing I meant yesterday by the “this shows the danger of humouring assholes”. But, y’know, there’s an element of assuming Dirk is memeing when he isn’t that is also very present here now. And, y’know, not exactly lacking in cultural relevance given that, again, Jane went full fash and at least some of the rationalisations for it were provided by him.

The other narrator of Meat is pretty chill, though leaving us hanging was kind of a dick move not gonna lie.

Oh god yeah, poor Jake again. Dirks is such an asshole. I mean, I can’t say enough how well written his assholery is, but that doesn’t, like, make him not an inutterable asshole.

I am not particularly qualified to comment on the Roxy gender stuff (beyond “the pivot to he/him is literally something I’ve had several AFAB NB friends do, though usually accompanied by a name change”. Although I will probably just avoid using pronouns for Roxy unless I mean specifically Meat Roxy or Candy Roxy since I think they (plural) did ultimately settle on different approaches to their gender(s? I think they’re both agender (like, specifically; Candy!Roxy very much reminds me of agender people I know) due to being the same person but go very different ways about it due to life circumstance stuff; I imagine Candy!Roxy would consider herself a woman for sociological purposes, but I very much doubt that Meat!Roxy would do the same himself).

Back on Candy discussion - there’s definitely a narrator, and actually maybe the final bit of Meat before the postscript (which follows on from Candy and likewise Candy’s is the immediate follow through on Meat) implies that it’s Dead!Calliope, but then the stuff that makes me think it has a particular speaker (before Dead!Calliope outright says so) makes me think otherwise. I know I both briefly thought Rose and then encountered some stuff that made it make less sense for it to be Rose (even ascended robot Rose, even if that would provide a neat symmetry to Dirk’s hostile narrative takeover+desire). It’s also a lot more... heterosexual than Meat, which makes me wonder if it’s Dead!Caliborn, but dead!Caliborn wouldn’t care about seeming sexist in this one line early on. Rose totally would despite being (as far as I can tell) a woman. Hmm...

Actualy, rereading the Meat postscript, I’m more sure that Candy is... not so much non-canon, as utterly orthogonal to the main storyline. Or it is now.

I mean, at least some of it will intersect; it gives us background for davebot for starters. Actually, given the treatment of robots as frequently de-facto nb but happy to roll with gendered pronouns (a la Candy!Roxy; I believe Mark Rosewater has said that this is broadly how Karn (the silver golem) thinks of himself, for example).

Okay, so I’m also 90% sure that Barack Obama is not actually the real Barack Obama, but that doesn’t give me any insight as to who created the fake Obama in order to get Dave to turn into Davebot. Unless it’s literally actually Jake because he does have some random robotics skill, and Jake is also a hope player. Plus Jake also used his Hope powers briefly in Candy I think? Which was near the end and I think possible precipitated it. But, like, Jake would have to have a reason for that, and I don’t think “Jane is a genocidal maniac” would prompt that specific response.

Speaking of an English... did Lord English take over the narrative of Meat briefly? I kind of kept hopping up above the line to add extra non-spoilery thoughts. Or acceptably spoilery thoughts. Like, the sort of thoughts that amounted to making the very intentional trigger warnings clearer. So, uh, I’m on about the callback to the vine thing. That thing. Plus some other stuff.

Another cognitive aid might have been a few drawings (I don’t think it needs full on panels, but just to make it clear where certain scenes take place), though I get why they wanted to avoid illustrating some of it.