#and it's always “Mohg did nothing wrong”

[fairymousse]

If I see one more unfunny "Miquellestor" joke, I'm going to start biting people

[cowboyballads]

kind of tired of the unending argument of the morality of demigods. l like all their faults and heinous deeds and i like the shreds of humanity and kindness that shines through every now and then.

[balteus]

Elden Ring SOTE and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

//j (spoilers ahead)

I'm gonna be honest initially my opinions on the story were pretty mixed, and while that still is the case in some respect, the overall story and its implications have grown on me and made me like certain characters (mohg, malenia, radahn) even more, and add a layer of tragedy to what we know about them from the base game. while i am aware the story overall was forced to bend by the gamedev crunch, I think FS did a good job with the time and resources they had available.

caveats of this post: obviously going to be colored by my own opinions and views I've held abt the story since abt march 2022: that being, Marika is a Nashandra parallel through and through, and Miquella is a benevolent but manipulative hypocrite - "Path to hell is paved with good intentions" the character. I'm aware there's plenty of discourse about the interpretations of these characters but just remember: I have never been wrong ever in my entire life <3

Malenia, despite her overall lack of appearance in the DLC, I personally feel the most about given certain... revelations.

Malenia is a character who has always lacked true agency, lived her life in a state of fighting against the inevitable and looking up for anything to alleviate her suffering and help her push through the sheer horror that was her fate. Very much a white-knuckle-gripping the dirt while drowining in her grave kind of character.

And so... SOTE reveals that Miquella was willing to sacrifice her. It reveals that for all his posturing, his leaving the golden order because of her, Miquella was fully willing to throw his own little sister who looked up to him as a lord and savior, to the wolves. He was willing for her to become the thing she hated most, was willing to order her to do it even, if it meant his plan would inch one step closer to fruition. In sending her to fight against Radahn and which consequently led to her bloom and ultimate decay. and it didn't even work. Malenia lived and fought and died never knowing that her ultimate mission was a failure, that in her blinding loyalty, much like her father's, she destroyed herself. The fearsome "Blade of Miquella" herself, and the dream of her healing she had once shared with her brother, was discarded as easily as a butter knife.

Radahn, on the other hand... man. Isn't it funny how upon being told that Miquella awaited him in his death, the man straight up refused to die for centuries? The entire Radahn festival becomes recontextualized once you realize that Radahn would rather let himself become a rotting, shambling, mindless corpse before he allowed himself to become a part of Miquella's plan. I know some people think he was willingly taking part in the vow - but remember, Radahn had to die for the vow to be fulfilled, as we learn - and knowing everything we do about him - would Radahn abandon the Redmanes, Sellia, the entire Caelid, the land he fought the stars over - would he let them be destroyed for Miquella? He gains absolutely nothing from that transaction.

I get discourse-y here but his death is anything but a warrior's one, if you take that to be the promise Miquella made to him in return. Perhaps in the grand scheme of things, you could say that you're putting base game Radahn to rest, but with the context of the DLC, you're subjecting him to a fate worse than death.

Mohg. Not much to say abt him I'm just really happy Mohgposting is legal now <3 Free my man he did nothing wrong the blood cult was based and mohgpilled actually.

[sealer-of-wenkamui]

Very glad muting/blocking exists cause one of the most annoying things to come out of the dlc is the amount of people acting like Mohg did nothing wrong and acting like he “beat the allegations”. As someone that loved him in the first place BECAUSE of the rape implications and the way you could see how his upbringing would lead him to have a very warped sense of love, I swear it’s just people looking for the first excuse to deny that. The charm is hardly complete mind control even on people that aren’t demigods, and no one else exhibits that level of possessiveness over Miquella on top of our source of info about this being a high ranking knight of Mohg’s who obviously is going to be biased (as annoying as I think him always talking about Mohg as a victim is, yeah of course he’s gonna focus on that. Also why do people act like he’s all good and pure too he’s part of the BLOOD CULT, and they’ve been shown to be very elegant? Like the sanguine nobles and Mohg himself even? It’s not that surprising he’d be polite and refined.)

[linda-ravstar]

You're so right about the Miquella stuff. The idea that he's getting a unique pass is laughable. He got second in the most evil demigod poll by a massive margin, and you don't have to look very far on Reddit to see extreme homophobic comments about him from Radahn fanboys is like open your eyes lol

So sorry about not answering you before, anon, but you are right. Everybody has their takes and interpretation regarding Miquella, Radahn and every other character. I think the DLC narrative is not univocal nor is clear or consistent. You can take one event and, with in game information, without headcanons and only using items, dialogues and environmental details, arrive at opposite conclussions, and both be supported. I think arguments can be made for different interpretations of events, and I even think we can argue "what's the most likely interpretation/what's the most likely intention of the writers", but at the end of the day you are still negotiating with the narrative.

All of that to say that yes, I don't think Miquella as character gets a unique pass. And yeah, sadly, there is a lot of homophobia and transphobia in the subtext of a lot of jokes, criticism and hate that some fans throw at the DLC depictions and characters, which is never okay.

There are always exceptions and fans that go to the extremes, but most people discuss the level of grayness/evilness/wrong stuff done by Miquella. Very few people, minimal I would say, seriously say that he did nothing wrong and that he is completely justified. On the contrary, a lot of people are pretty comfortable just writing him off as a complete evil mastermind that never cared about anything or anyone......... or an absolute stupid naive child that shouldn't have gone near anything more than a crayon. It depends, really. But this cartoonish depictions, I think, are slowly being left in the past. But things like Mohg's relationship to Miquella, the extent and nature of Miquella's charming powers, the nature of the vow between Radahn and Miquella, the motives behind the Battle of Aeonia, the status of Radahn in the final battle, the reason as to why Miquella discarded his flesh and 'soul' (doubts, love, fear), the nature of the original sin, the meaning of the Age of Compassions and a looot of other topics will probably be discussed for a long time. Which I suppose was the original intention.

[miirshroom]

Shadow of the Erdtree Ending (Spoiler)

I haven't gotten to that point myself yet, because I dislike rushing and will probably spend weeks combing through the environment. But I also find it more efficient to work with the ending in mind and the info is out there already so...

My thoughts on the reaction: the Miquella twist was in no way out of nowhere. The Bewitching Branch description was a smoking gun and this is payoff. Miquella being a childish character with bizarre desires for a consort is entirely expected because the nature of his being is to be an Eternal Child. Makes sense that Godwyn has almost nothing to do with this storyline because he was the old tarnished version of Miquella - Marika's older kid left behind in favour of the new Golden Child.

However, having gotten a more solid idea of the themes that FromSoft are going for here, people who are saying "this vindicates Mohg entirely" are completely missing the point. Think about where the DLC is accessed. Think about how Mohg in his cutscene emerges from the blood of the corpse in the cocoon. And maybe think of all of the things that were discarded from Miquella to reach the point that he does. The framing here is that Mohg imagines himself to be "bewitched" and hollowed out by Miquella, and so the flattened and idealized version of Miquella memorialized in this death dream complies by doing exactly that.

Elden Ring is and always has been a game about perspectives. The Shadowlands contains the worst and most pessimistic perspective by design. By getting inside Mohg's head and presenting his twisted perspective it may in a roundabout way validate the idea that the living Miquella had no particular mind control powers. More likely, Miquella had charisma and big dreams, but it was a point of frustration that he needed to metamorphose into an adult form to make those dreams reality for everyone. And it was his followers who crafted the Bewitching Branch in his name because they simply believed in him for the sake of idealism alone. But by inviting everyone to share in the dream with no filtering process they inevitably invited bad actors into the fold.

In other words, I suspect that going through this story and concluding that Mohg did no wrong is like reading Lolita and concluding that the narrator did nothing wrong.

[krakenguard]

Gonna get some weight off my chest.

Like, what REALLY... Gets my absolute goat is how... Like...

Being INCREDIBLY disappointed in the direction they took Miquella in with the DLC -- like we knew nothing about Miquella's character before the DLC, so it gave a lot of people time to come up with their own headcanons on who Miquella was, and what he was like. I had my idea of Miquella. Everyone had their idea of Miquella. Granted, I was on the fence about the character, seeing as the DLC would be dealing a lot with his character, but, I indulged!

I LIKED the idea of having an alternative to Ranni -- siding with someone who'd actually work toward making the Lands Between - and possibly the Lands of Shadow - a better place, instead of making off with the Elden Ring and leaving the world behind in a total disarray.

We didn't get that. Instead, we got someone who was driven by the ambition of becoming a god who would then go on to charm the whole world -- pacify everything and strip away free will -- do people not realize how terrifying that is?

And to find out that the whole reason for the state of Caelid was that Malenia essentially nuked it IN MIQUELLA'S NAME. JUST to incapacitate Radahn, whom Miquella wanted as his consort.

Which, by now everyone knows my stance on Radahn! Radahn's whole presence in the DLC is complete bullshit -- there was no foreshadowing in the base game! It wasn't the Tarnished that killed Miquella; it was the red string!

And then the whole bewitchment of Mohg -- GOD! Like, people are SO hellbent on seeing Mohg as this pure evil monster, and will justify Miquella's bewitchment of him, and call Ansbach a biased liar for seeking justice.

Mohg was a victim. He was not a good guy - no! But he did not deserve what happened. He didn't deserve to get locked away in a sewer by Marika. He didn't deserve to get bewitched by Miquella, and subsequently have his body desecrated in death.

Which also ties in to the Pre-DLC Headcanoning of Miquella - I was onboard with Miquella/Mohg after initially being on the fence about it! The reason why I started shipping the two was because I liked the idea of Miquella, despite all the wrongs Mohg did, still having it within himself to show compassion; because yeah, Mohg WAS deserving of compassion.

Like, that's the kind of compassion I THOUGHT Miquella was striving for -- But we did NOT get that! Hell, the whole "Become our lord; not for gods, but for men" -- I thought that's why Miquella went all those lengths of shedding himself. So he could be mortal. So he COULD be a lord; not for gods, but for men.

Anyway though, TLDR: A good chunk of the playerbase was not expecting the direction they went with Miquella. A lot of people who had genuine faith in Miquella were left devastated. I was sympathetic. As a Mohg sympathizer myself, I was sympathetic toward people who were left disappointed over Miquella's characterization, as well as everything else that happened in the DLC.

Which is why I made DLC Disgruntlements! Like... I wanted a place where people could come in, vent their frustrations about whatever that got their goat in the DLC without spoiling it for everyone who wanted to go in blind! People didn't HAVE to agree with what others were saying; all I wanted, however, was that things be kept civil.

That didn't happen. One person voiced their frustrations about Miquella always being painted as this symbol of pure goodness while Mohg was always relegated as the 100% evil villain to be vanquished, and frustrated with people still trying to justify Miquella's actions in the DLC -- because it really IS no different from people arguing that Marika and Messmer were justified in their genocide of the Hornsent -- and got run out for it.

Like, I really DO understand being disappointed in the direction they went with Miquella's character -- He was acting on what he BELIEVED was good, but that doesn't mean that what he was working toward WAS actually good JUST because he believed in it.

They're... Trying to justify his actions in the DLC. Trying to paint him as entirely good who's done no evil, and it JUST...

Yeah, like I am really... Incredibly frustrated with it! It pushes my buttons!

And, like... Everyone else can gripe on their blogs. I think I can afford to just be a little bit precious on my own when it's something that DOES genuinely bug me! 🙄😒

[chibelial]

Debating on my next Elden Ring Build, please gimme your thoughts!

Under the cut I’ll describe builds I already have, and please in the notes talk about your own builds!

Alright I’ve got a few characters, 2 of which have been rebirthed into a new character/build. Here they are, in the order I made them

1. Veteran Blood Priest - Aegon: this being my first character, it went under a few revisions. I don’t remember exactly what build I was trying to run with initially, but as soon as I defeated Mohg and got the Sacred Spear; everything had to change. I love this weapon, it’s probably my favorite in the game. I revamped my character immediately into a wall of armor and poise, every stat that wasn’t put into stamina for that express purpose was poured into Arcane for max damage. With the Veterans armor and the bullgoat talisman, I could almost always activate the weapon art uninterrupted, and it would even melt bosses who can’t bleed. I went into NG+ and finished near every boss in maybe 12-15 hours and I take these playthroughs SLOW, the trident was just that strong, especially its weapon art. However I leveled this guy to like 170 or 180 and after that I realized you generally wanna stop anywhere between the 90s and the 140s, so I really don’t play him anymore, hence why I have bleed characters and a trident build on my list lol, I’d like to make one within decent leveling parameters. Also, this guy got the Frenzy ending. I found the 3 fingers by accident on my first playthrough and got the most vile ending.

2. Black Flame Knight - Bakura: Night’s Cavalry Armor and all the black flame incantations, maxed out godskin seal and godskin peeler. With Shard of Alexander and some other fire damage buffs, nothing melts bosses faster and more consistently than the black flame tornado, and all the spells are just insanely strong. People who say Intelligence/Dexterity builds are playing in easy mode may not be wrong, but I’d wager the game is almost as easy when you run a proper black flame set up.

Initially this guy was gonna be a death sorcerer, the name Bakura was a Yugioh reference to Bakura who always used occult themed cards and quite famously had destiny board, which I was supplementing as the rancor spells. Like 2/3 way through the game the build was trash. I just didn’t do it right cuz my brother has built a phenomenal death rite sorcerer. Ended up rebirthing and doing a black flame build. Haven’t renamed him yet but I probably will give him something more suiting.

3. Ranni’s Consort Eternal - Asmodeus: This was meant to be a conglomerate of all the “night” themed magic stuff I could use, and ofc this character did ranni’s ending. I used the zweidander with a magic, and later a frost weapon art, for most of the playthrough, to get myself ready for the Darkmoon Sword. Tried out Blaidd’s as well and loved it, but stuck w the darkmoon for immersion. Sorceries were a mix of night and gravity sorceries. I think I threw in 1 or 2 frost ones near the end just to prock the status more often.

4. Perfumer/Status Build - Carl Weezer: my brother and I were doing Carl weezer (from the show Jimmy Neutron for those unaware) and one night when I was stumped on what to do w a new character, I was like fuck it let’s make Carl. So I used the Godskin Noble armor, with the Albinauric mask, and I specifically made use of breathe and scream attacks. Using talismans to boost those and the perfume items, Carl was a VERY gimmicky tarnished. If you’re confused as to why the scream, breathe, and perfume attacks, it was simple. Carl is always defined by his failing health and his asthma so we decided, the perfume items were his inhalers and the breathe attacks kinda fit too. Scream attacks were based on the fantastic 4 / X-Men episode where his powers are burp based. Sorry to offend asthmatics but I had very little to work with. Carl ended up being such a mess that I rebirthed him with rennala and turned him into the next character I’ll list -

5. Beast Champion: This guy had Bernhal’s full set of armor, except of the head which was the Blaidd mask. Maim focus was just damage with the Beast Claw Hammer, but I ran the claw mark seal and all the beast incantations as well, along with a couple crucible spells. Ran a Cinquedea as well for a speedy option during pvp. I tried to use physical buff items and spells as often as possible to make up for the fact that this build was pure physicality, no damage dealing items weapons or skills unless they dealt physical

6. Lord of Frenzied Flame - Tenebrae: My magnum opus. This tarnished is the best in pvp of any of my builds, and aesthetically he’s so perfect. He’s a balance between faith and arcane, and I have the dragon communion seal in 1 hand and the frenzy in the other. I wear Eleanora’s gauntlets and have the Frenzy seal in the gold hand, and the communion seal in the red dragon scaled hand. I usually cast with the frenzy seal for the buff but in pvp the communion seal builds frenzy super easy on other players. With the gauntlets I just have Morgott’s Robe and the Merchants Headpiece, the headpiece is obv a reference to where the three fingers are found as well as Kalé’s cut questline. I thought morgott’s robe looked so raggedy and worn, it was perfect, plus what a mocking gesture to the golden order and the greater will than to be clad in the robe of Leyndell’s last king. It also was the only piece I could think of that kinda suited the giant flaming head you get during the end cutscene, thing has the watermelon for head size like SpongeBob’s sweater of tears. Ofc I was also running Vykes spear with this guy, but he was mostly a caster.

7. Blood Knight - Belial: I basically wanted to make a bleed character who was super fast instead of super slow and tanky, unfortunately I chose to use Eleanora’s poleblade instead of katanas or reduvia or something. It’s such a cool weapon but I was struggling a bit at the endgame, so I rebirthed this guy to use the trident again, but with a light roll. He’s currently got Mohg’s robe and I switch the other armor around here and there. I’m not sure what I’ll end up doing with this tarnished he hasn’t finished the game. Maybe the dlc will give us a twinmace and I can turn him into Ultraman Belial. I think I may just NG+ him into one of the guilds on the poll.

8. Adherent of Rot - Icky Vicky: this character focuses on inflicting rot and poison on strong enemies, while quickly cutting away HP with powerstanced daggers and consecutive damage boosting talismans. Right now she mainly uses 2 scorpion stingers and swaps 1 for reduvia at times. Haven’t NG+ yet but someone gave me a 2nd stinger. I’d like to get a 2nd Antspur rapier, with a poison weapon art both weapons could build rot and poison simultaneously. Character also wears Malenia’s gear with the mushroom crown. I use perfume items a lot and the poison and rot pots.

[allknowingofnir]

Another Afternoon in Liurnia

He had traveled without Ensha this time, and had gone in a different guise than the hallmark helmet he was known for. It would be too obvious and would draw far too much attention especially given where he was headed this day. The large turtle opened his eyes as the visitor in grey robes entered the ruins of the Church of Vows, looking about.

“Welcome, dear visitor. I am Miriel, steward of this sacred place. What guidance are you in need of?” The turtle turned his head toward the visitor. Gideon lowered the hood, squinting his eyes in the afternoon sunlight. He still wasn’t used to being out and about like this, beyond the walls of the Hold.

“Ah, I must thank you for sending your student to the Hold for instruction, it is an honor to do so.” Ofnir bowed his head toward Miriel. Miriel’s eyes lit up at mention of that before nodding briefly.

“Ah, Sir Gideon Ofnir, an honor to meet you in the flesh. I must admit, it was a surprise to hear one as busy as yourself show interest in such matters. Has the issue of ascendance to the throne been resolved then?” The turtle asked, voice hopeful. Gideon made a light frown and shook his head. Miriel remained cheerful regardless.

“I’m afraid not. I am here on a related business. You may be aware already of the title I go by, the All-Knowing, but I’m not here to boast to a holy man in his church. Even my hubris hasn’t degraded my sense to that level of debasement.” Gideon said, sitting on the ground to meet Miriel’s gaze easier. The turtle nodded, seemingly content to be engaging in conversation.

“That is good news indeed, Sir Ofnir. I am humbled to know someone remembers the holiness of this place and its value to the Order. Few stop by on matters beyond absolution, but do not think I disparage such things if that’s what brings you here yourself.” Miriel chuckled with himself at that. Gideon said nothing, it had been a serious consideration.

“I’m more interested in hearing of your... philosophy, you might say. Word along the grape vine is that you disparage the idea of heresy as a concept, that all things can be reconciled?” Ofnir asked, pulling the hood of his cloak up once more to keep the light of the sun and Erdtree out of his eyes. Miriel considered the question.

“I would not say it is a matter of philosophy but rather... an expression of kindness, that even that which may seem at odds can still be made to relate to something else. The joining of the Moon and Erdtree brought about a peace when there had been war, and even if the union of Rennala and Radagon did not last, that bond is still maintained to this day. You yourself make use of the Glintstone Sorceries of the Academy, even though you are an ally of the Erdtree, yes?” Miriel lowered his head, closing his eyes. He knew the question would give Gideon something to think on for some time.

Perhaps it was possible, when put that way, Gideon contemplated. There were some elements that would always oppose any and all attempts to bring the lands together. Mt. Gelmir and the Recusants came to mind immediately, though other elements would resist on history. The Omens and their scorn would not be easily forgotten or forgiven. Mohg was still out there, and so long as he had planned his own dynasty any change to the Throne would be opposed, but perhaps that was something they would have to face when that day came either way.

“Oh yes, you mentioned it briefly, but... absolution?” Gideon asked, motioning toward the basin. Miriel looked at Gideon, his ancient eyes peering into the All-Knowing’s. Gideon felt the weight of his heart in the back of his throat, not from a look of shame or scorn from the great turtle, but the kindness the creature’s gaze granted him. Miriel understood, not condone, but understood that Gideon had done wrong, hurt others. There was, for him, still hope. He motioned toward Gideon’s side, knowing what lie in the glass bottle he had brought with him. 

“You know it, Sir Ofnir. I would not expect you to come here and be unaware of it. However, I will once more recite it. Anoint yourself with the Celestial Dew within the basin, and repent of your wrongs. The transgressions of your deeds will be remiss.” Miriel motioned toward the fountain at the end of the church.

Gideon said nothing but once more bowed his head toward the great turtle, standing there for a long, quiet moment. Finally he stepped over, lowering the hood of his cloak. He removed the bottle of celestial dew from his satchel and held it above his head.

“May the stars bear witness, to the misdeeds of a proud old fool.”