#and it's always “Mohg did nothing wrong”

[fairymousse]

If I see one more unfunny "Miquellestor" joke, I'm going to start biting people

[anonymergremlin]

Elden Rings' gods and demi-gods are a good example of godhood.

They are powerful beings, but even with power...

Their lifes are filled with sadness, pain and the feeling that their power is not enough.

Not enough to protect them from their curses, from the world influencing them but most importantly...

Not enough to make them truly live a happy and fullfilling life.

[cowboyballads]

kind of tired of the unending argument of the morality of demigods. l like all their faults and heinous deeds and i like the shreds of humanity and kindness that shines through every now and then.

[blasphemousclaw]

Idk if you plan on doing the "questions-about-character-x" list yet, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on Marika (maybe with a side of Radagon but mostly the golden strumpet).

• favorite thing about them

nothing hits me harder than characters who lash out because of the injustice or suffering they’ve endured… there’s something so cathartic about characters who make their pain and anger felt in the world in a tangible and consequential way. Marika is this character to me!! I think it’s so powerful to introduce her as an all-powerful goddess, keeping her at a distance as this enigmatic figure who shaped the world as it is today and then shattered it, and then to humanize her by showing us where she comes from and what she went through… she was never just a cold, distant, uncaring deity, but a person, with very human motivations and flaws. learning her backstory gives us so much context for why she did the things that she did and gives us the opportunity to feel close to her and empathize with her… I think she was always sympathetic in the base game, but she still felt so distant, so I really love how the dlc fleshed her out and made her character so accessible

• least favorite thing about them

this isn’t even about her, but about how the fanbase has responded to her writing in the dlc because like dear god

it almost makes me want to avoid content of her which sucks because I really like her LOL

• favorite line

“Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices...”

absolutely fascinating quote… we don’t really know the context, so there’s many different ways to interpret it… Marika urging her children to become a lord or a god is interesting, because when she deposed the Gloam-Eyed Queen and removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring, it seemed like she was fighting hard to stay in power and to become “Eternal,��� but her children succeeding her would necessarily end her reign? This also almost seems like she’s encouraging conflict between her children… there can only be one god and one lord, after all. we don’t know when the quote was spoken, but it almost seems to reference Ranni’s sacrifice of Godwyn on her path to godhood on her own terms? is this a warning? is it a challenge? is it just the words of an extremely jaded and cynical goddess?

• brOTP, ОТР

ok I’m gonna do away with this format here because I just want to list some of her relationships that I really like without having to categorize them:

Marika and Messmer: the dynamic of Marika being a god-queen whose grace is blinding, and her son being born cursed with a serpent of the lightless abyss is so good… him taking up the crusade on her behalf, of his own volition, because he hates how he was born so deeply and will do anything to try to atone for something that isn’t even his fault, committing horrors in her name, is SOOOO

Marika and Radagon: I love pondering where one of them starts and the other begins, how they have opposite goals and worldviews but exist in the same being. really good

Marika and Rennala: I wouldn’t call it an otp but I like it as a ship. Marika being the one to steal away Rennala’s husband, but she actually IS her husband. unparalleled dynamic

• nОТР

there arent any Marika ships I’ve seen that I dislike

• random headcanon

I think she was horrified and disgusted by Morgott and Mohg AND she loved them still. omen babies would have their horns cut off, usually causing them to die, but omen babies born of royalty did not have their horns cut off, so they were allowed to live… I love the idea that Marika couldn’t bear to sentence her children to death, but she also couldn’t bear to look at them because of her past, so they were confined to the Shunning Grounds

• unpopular opinion

*cracks knuckles*

SO MANY people have the wrong idea about her. you’ve got people saying everything she did was justified, she didn’t go far enough, “total hornsent death” etc etc. and on the other hand you’ve got people saying the dlc writing is terrible because it’s excusing Marika for her crimes, it’s baiting you to feel bad for the hornsent and then pulling a plot twist that actually, they were evil and Marika was good the whole time!

both of these interpretations are flawed because the story is not arguing that the hornsent are fundamentally evil people, and it is not arguing that Marika is now blameless because of what she suffered. the story is rife with moments of sympathy for the hornsent’s suffering and examples of the crusade’s inexcusable cruelty, and so much of what’s in the base game showcases the cruelty that Marika’s Order has inflicted. just because the story is giving Marika a sympathetic reason for why she is the way she is does not mean that these facts cease to exist! sympathy for Marika, sympathy for the hornsent, and condemnation for the Golden Order’s and the crusade’s crimes can all exist in the story at the same time!!!!!

• song i associate with them

…how about this: if anyone has a song in mind, leave it in the replies or tags!

• favorite picture of them

Ranni holding her head u_u

[balteus]

Elden Ring SOTE and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

//j (spoilers ahead)

I'm gonna be honest initially my opinions on the story were pretty mixed, and while that still is the case in some respect, the overall story and its implications have grown on me and made me like certain characters (mohg, malenia, radahn) even more, and add a layer of tragedy to what we know about them from the base game. while i am aware the story overall was forced to bend by the gamedev crunch, I think FS did a good job with the time and resources they had available.

caveats of this post: obviously going to be colored by my own opinions and views I've held abt the story since abt march 2022: that being, Marika is a Nashandra parallel through and through, and Miquella is a benevolent but manipulative hypocrite - "Path to hell is paved with good intentions" the character. I'm aware there's plenty of discourse about the interpretations of these characters but just remember: I have never been wrong ever in my entire life <3

Malenia, despite her overall lack of appearance in the DLC, I personally feel the most about given certain... revelations.

Malenia is a character who has always lacked true agency, lived her life in a state of fighting against the inevitable and looking up for anything to alleviate her suffering and help her push through the sheer horror that was her fate. Very much a white-knuckle-gripping the dirt while drowining in her grave kind of character.

And so... SOTE reveals that Miquella was willing to sacrifice her. It reveals that for all his posturing, his leaving the golden order because of her, Miquella was fully willing to throw his own little sister who looked up to him as a lord and savior, to the wolves. He was willing for her to become the thing she hated most, was willing to order her to do it even, if it meant his plan would inch one step closer to fruition. In sending her to fight against Radahn and which consequently led to her bloom and ultimate decay. and it didn't even work. Malenia lived and fought and died never knowing that her ultimate mission was a failure, that in her blinding loyalty, much like her father's, she destroyed herself. The fearsome "Blade of Miquella" herself, and the dream of her healing she had once shared with her brother, was discarded as easily as a butter knife.

Radahn, on the other hand... man. Isn't it funny how upon being told that Miquella awaited him in his death, the man straight up refused to die for centuries? The entire Radahn festival becomes recontextualized once you realize that Radahn would rather let himself become a rotting, shambling, mindless corpse before he allowed himself to become a part of Miquella's plan. I know some people think he was willingly taking part in the vow - but remember, Radahn had to die for the vow to be fulfilled, as we learn - and knowing everything we do about him - would Radahn abandon the Redmanes, Sellia, the entire Caelid, the land he fought the stars over - would he let them be destroyed for Miquella? He gains absolutely nothing from that transaction.

I get discourse-y here but his death is anything but a warrior's one, if you take that to be the promise Miquella made to him in return. Perhaps in the grand scheme of things, you could say that you're putting base game Radahn to rest, but with the context of the DLC, you're subjecting him to a fate worse than death.

Mohg. Not much to say abt him I'm just really happy Mohgposting is legal now <3 Free my man he did nothing wrong the blood cult was based and mohgpilled actually.

[katyspersonal]

Hi there, I hope you don’t mind the random question but in your mind which fanbase would you say is worse, Elden Ring or Bloodborne in terms of annoying fans. I used to think Bloodborne fans could be bad but holy shit ER fans are something else when it comes to lore discussions. As someone who is pretty active in lore talk with both games do you find one side to be more exhausting to deal with than the other? Obviously feel free not to answer this if you think it might start drama

Honestly? I can't hate Bloodborne fandom enough.

Bloodborne was my first Fromsoft game and one keeping me hostage in terms of fixation for over three years, like I said! And yes, it has incredibly bad, toxic people in it - Maria fans who kept slandering Gehrman despite all the info against their takes, honestly believed there is anything problematic with Gehrmaria, had mental breakdown if anyone dared to see Maria as bi or straight despite her not having canon sexuality, believed that the whole story is either about man bad woman good OR was incredibly misogynist, no between. Close minded, toxic people who would deliberately bait anger and pain with placing their hate in the tags and then play victims when those hurt fans snapped back. Oh, I hate them, and revealing that Gehrman's "creepiness" and "misogyny" was completely and fully translation mistake, as well as pointing out how comes why nothing is wrong with how Doll is dressed with facts, is forever my most valid contribution to the fandom. More so than my ugly childlike fanart or convoluted theories could ever be. But, not THIS is why Bloodborne fandom is worse in my opinion.

Elden Ring fandom introduced not one but SEVERAL annoying and exhausting topics to deal with! I "affectionately" titled especially rabid Malenia and Miquella fans 'Twin Cultists' because this is exactly what their behavior is and have always been! Funny enough, a person who got mad at me for this one was someone who got alienated on Discord server for Miquella fans because owners started to insist that only their headcanons are valid AND admitted to me on feeling unsafe for not shipping Finlenia. I am dead serious! Malenia fans are strikingly similar to Maria pseudofeminist fans in toxicity, Miquella fans are like if you removed all likeable traits of Leda and replaced them with even MORE of undying vitriol for anyone who dares to interpret him as anything but perfect pure radiant sunshine. Mohg triggered a pretty awful discourse between those who insisted he was rapist molester whatever and if you interpret it differently you are insensitive and media-illiterate victimblamer and people who defended him "becoming the very thing they sworn to destroy" as well as also exhibiting cult-like thought control in their circles (they know who they are -_-).

But the DLC has changed things a bit, right? Some Twin Cultists are still spilling vitriol, except now they also claim that writers are bad, not only fans that disagree with them! Still, blessed, deserved vindication finally arrived! But what about others, whose situation never changed? Vitriol towards Godrick is ABSURD. You know how common fandoms L is that they judge and hate female character for something, but when male character did the exact same thing it is humored or justified? Godrick is this, minus the gender difference, yet everyone who points out his actual characteristics and the hypocrisy of his haters gets ridiculed. You thought that his fans would flock together to support each others? No, turns out that pocket are loosers who think people who don't headcanon him as trans are childish and ridiculous and loathe cishet Elden Ring fans in general. Fia and D are caught in the weird discourse loop where one is always simplified and idealized and another is demonized to Hell and beyond, when they both are strongly caught in religious brainwashing of sorts but also are sympathetic in their own right. Ranni's fans and haters both do not know the term of Machiavellian (aka "Ends justify the means" philosophy). She is the worst most evil character in the setting over what crimes she committed in order to protect the world from the problem of potentially anyone being able to grab the laws of nature itself and shape them according to their bigotries and preferences, OR she is a perfect innocent fighter against oppression and people who dislike her Just Hate Women TM. And of course we cannot forget the one above them all! The radiant, omnipresent, eternal!...

Marika truly brings out the worst of discussions! She has been before SOTE, but you YEARN for pre-SOTE times if you hate OR love her! Not because things changed, but because now discussion can't be avoided. She is THE Elden Ring character who is only ever demonized and idealized. Before SOTE, she was only ever just a tyrant who loves genocide OR simply a puppet of Greater Will (or rather Two Fingers claiming to speak for it as it turned out) who never meant to do that shit and finally heroically rebelled. After SOTE... hahaha, oh boy... we started to deal with the issue of excusing genocide. Her fans will claim into essays and more essays why Hornsent are all fundamentally dangerous race and Marika is merely trying to rid the world of filth that ruins it by sending Messmer. However, demonization didn't quite go away either, and her haters are so angry at writers humanizing her a bit more that they say WRITERS are pro-fascist!

So, why? I've described such horrid discourse, when Bloodborne fandom sounds like it simply has a few bad apples in comparison! What can be worse than Elden Ring fandom, after a description like this? Yeah, you see... Elden Ring fandom is thorn by awful arguments and discourse, it is hostile and dangerous for your mental health if you are invested into fandom beyond just "consuming content" and advertising your art for sale. Yet, it lives. It lives in the same sense as a land torn by earthquakes lives. It lives in the same sense a volcano that won't stop smoking lives. It lives in the same sense sea lives during the storm. But it LIVES.

Bloodborne fandom is a fucking Caelid.

If you question whether I'd be scared of "drama", I assume you are new here and don't know my epic lore. I am not afraid of anything because society made itself clear on what I am for it. In the most condenced way possible, one OF those toxic Maria fans didn't like me thinking for myself too much so they went out of their way to slander me for various -ists and -phobias. Their ableist friend that doesn't take racism seriously joined in. I was a victim of stalking, harassment, slander, witch-hunting and cult-like shunning for over a year, and so was every kind fool who treated me like a human - friend or mutual. I can NOT speak of Bloodborne fandom experience from personal standpoint because obviously it is not an objective experience (though someone who also got unfairly slandered by Maria fans too contacted me, so I question whether it IS a trend..?). Still, it isn't about me or my friends, we are an oddity. Bloodborne fandom for me was just a bunch of gullible, weak sheep who are okay with witch-hunt because letting just a few people get harassed is not worth souring their fandom experience. And I do not wish to turn back or even try to mend anything. I caught my stalker and exposed their crimes, I made everyone who believed they were innocent feel stupid and ashamed, it was all I wanted. I don't wish to "befriend" the fandom afterwards.

YEAH YEAH "THINGS ONCE BROKEN" WHATEVER

But I was still posting and drawing and playing and talking and writing, right? I was still present. So, I was at least observing what was going on. And what truly soured Bloodborne fandom was actually happening afterwards, what was not involving me or any friend or enemy I knew. The worst thing happened, worse for fandom than any amount of discourse. I call it "centralization", for lack of better term.

Bloodborne is a niche fandom, yet it had a sudden zoomers burst. And that led to dynamics of "fandom leaders", and stupid fucking Discord community that are akin to elite club in which if you are not invited you might as well not exist. It ALL became about stupid "web of mutuals" nonsense. It ALL became about some cool kids deciding what will be the ship or the take of the week/month, and soon you'd see NOTHING but this thing posted. Always through the exact same lense, too. Only to then be forgotten, because it was just a trend. Rom x Caryll comes to mind as a FAD of similar vibe. Micolaurence too.

I just hate this. The fandom stopped LIVING. I saw genuinely absurd things happen! Like someone drawing Mariadeline, one of the most popular ships in the fandom, yet they get completely ignored because they've failed to grab a beer at the bar with "leaders" of this ship who "hold" the distribution of that approval and love. Even worse; over a year ago, a very talented, fun, energetic and creative fan of Mensis Trio and Byrgenwerth squad showed up! They were SPAMMING art and writing, and all of that was good! So good that..... all of that barely got over 20 notes, maybe 30. Why? Because, again, you can't just post about blorbos and expect to be liked and approached. You have to get on the "good side" of "holders" of love for characters like Micolash, Laurence and Rom, or else they'll just side-eye you! But imagine this with literally everything else. I have been watching it happen all the time, to people that were not even targets for cult-like shunning by Alfred, Eugene or Anna for associating with me. You keep to yourself, you are shy, you are not on Discord with them, your headcanons are a bit different? Too bad, you may rot, because it is not about you! People look up to a few popular artists with shallow takes and so much creative liberties they might as well make OCs to know whether this or that person should be liked and reblogged, instead of JUST liking and reblogging them!

THIS is why Bloodborne fandom is Caelid. Not for toxicity, but because it is rotten. It used to be far less "organized" when I joined in. There were no trends to define fandomry for next few weeks decided on a party where ignored creators were not invited to. There was not hegemony of certain ships, designs and headcanons. There was no "web of mutuals" and pressure to either assert yourself by the good side or vanish. Everyone were doing their things and coexisting, nobody could determine who flourishes and who rots, diversity of headcanons and interpretations were celebrated. Oh, what's a matter? You really dislike that popular artist who infantilizes Marika and stripes her out of any agency over her actions? Well, so do like 500000 other people! Every popular take is ALSO popular to hate on in Elden Ring fandom! But if you dislike a popular take in Bloodborne then sucks to be you, because diversity of interpretations, opinions, preferences and takes just doesn't exist in it. Not anymore. Unless you "asserted" your novel idea to the "court" on some stupid Discord server and was "approved", of course.

Look. Elden Ring discourse annoys me to no end. I always get my headcanons and interpretations "corrected" in the worst condescending fashion. My friend posted a very well made lore post and got harped on because his take contradicted someone's idol's headcanons (with that idol approving of that harping) and I am still mad. I don't want to post my GEQ takes to be reminded that "aktualy" she is Melina. I dislike seeing claims of Miquella's nonexistent character assassination or Radahn hated just because some sexist Redditors were using him as a mascot. Nonetheless, deep down, I am THANKFUL. Because even really annoying debates end up being entertaining. Because people here TALK about things, REVISIT things, ARGUE about things, CARE about things, HAVE OPINIONS on things. They will annoy you in the comments or reblogs, but they SPEAK to you. No take is so popular that it defines all art and fanfics because every popular take is also popular to hate on. Things are disorganized. No fandom leaders, no elite club ignored blog wasn't invited to, no "web of mutuals" that should get sucked into a vacuum cleaner and never be seen again. Elden Ring fandom is a battlefield, but also free market minus the money.

To be honest, Bloodborne fandom was done for me when based people started to vanish. Fishbowlcarnage deactivated everywhere, Cuddlefish mysteriously disappeared and I worry whether they are even alive to this day, user Molluscock got bullied away... It felt like a bad omen, it happened before my drama, and I've never seen users like this before. Except I have been, but they all are now ignored because of this stupid high school dynamic taking over. Had Elden Ring hyperfixation not happened, I'd probably just end up blocking many Bloodborne accounts and never care for trying to make connections again, just post art and vanish to draw the next one. I did end up blocking some Bloodborne mutuals, after all. After it hit me, what was bothering me so much. Appreciate Elden Ring fandom and it's earthquakes, because shaking earth can't be bigger evil than stagnation. Bloodborne fandom no longer breathes, they are champions of not feeding the sparkles that were meant to become fire hoping they die down, and I hate every looser that benefits from that "system". In Elden Ring, ALL things flourish, whether graceful or malign.

[velvet-apricots]

OK. Radagon/Marika for the ask game. I am not sure if it's needed to separate them, but you can separate and choose one to answer about if you want! (I didn't find question about them)

favorite thing about them

I love how complex they both are. The flaws and crimes of her Golden Order stem from her own trauma. Text in game indicates she had a good deal of love and affection within her, but she was also filled with rage and hatred, and was willing to inflict it on anyone who wronged her. She returned the pain she received a thousand fold, to the point she had to erase she did it because it was so utterly brutal. She is both tragic, and horrifying. A victim and a villain. I love her and I can fix her. Radagon was a man who threw himself into everything he did. He had a void within himself that he was desperate to fill. He filled it with war, then with Rennala's love, their children, with scorceries, and when a higher calling came, he threw it all away in the hopes that a life with Marika would fill it. But it didn't. So he devoted himself to the Golden Order.

least favorite thing about them

How the fandom woobifies and also villanizes them both. Some people turn Marika into raging bitch with nothing redeeming about her, same with Radagon, and others insist that Marika is a victim and only a victim, same with Radagon. Hey guess what, you can be a victim AND A VILLAIN.

favorite line

For Marika it is: Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices... and all Radagon does is grunt in pain when you hit him.

brOTP

Marika and Nanaya, because I think both were numen and they knew one another and were close friends.... Then Marika ditched her to get her godhood. Radagon's only friend was his dog. And Rennala got it in the divorce.

OTP

Marika x Godfrey and Radagon x Rennala. Listen, I am a basic bitch. I just want them happy with the people they loved. I am always of the Belief Godfrey and Rennala were their one true loves.

nOTP

I got jumpscared by Marika/Godwyn once and was not a fan of that so that is my notp. Also don't like Marika/Maliketh.

random headcanon

The decree to remove the horns of Omen children came before Mohg and Morgott were born. When they were, she changed it so royal born Omens were spared certain death, and then she assigned Perfumer Trica to watch them until they were old enough, setting the woman's sympathy for those bereft of grace in stone. She also made it very clear to any Omen Killer to spare any Omen they met with golden eyes. She spent a little bit of time with them when they were very young, in secret. but ultimately it was too painful to see them. These were her only acts of kindness to them. Radagon is the one repelling everyone from the Erdtree, not Marika.

unpopular opinion

People just need to accept that what Marika did was unjustified. I also think they used to be separate people from the beginning, and were forced to join together for some unseen reason. Perhaps so Marika could be controlled in some last ditch effort to contain her, but it was ultimately for nothing as she rebelled.

song i associate with them

only got one for Marika

favorite picture of them

God my favorite image i have ever seen of Marika was this drawing of her lounging in bed, holding a sheet up so she could look at a sleeping Mohg and Morgott. It was so gentle and tender and GOD I WONT LET GO OF THE IDEA SHE LOVED THEM.

[krakenguard]

Gonna get some weight off my chest.

Like, what REALLY... Gets my absolute goat is how... Like...

Being INCREDIBLY disappointed in the direction they took Miquella in with the DLC -- like we knew nothing about Miquella's character before the DLC, so it gave a lot of people time to come up with their own headcanons on who Miquella was, and what he was like. I had my idea of Miquella. Everyone had their idea of Miquella. Granted, I was on the fence about the character, seeing as the DLC would be dealing a lot with his character, but, I indulged!

I LIKED the idea of having an alternative to Ranni -- siding with someone who'd actually work toward making the Lands Between - and possibly the Lands of Shadow - a better place, instead of making off with the Elden Ring and leaving the world behind in a total disarray.

We didn't get that. Instead, we got someone who was driven by the ambition of becoming a god who would then go on to charm the whole world -- pacify everything and strip away free will -- do people not realize how terrifying that is?

And to find out that the whole reason for the state of Caelid was that Malenia essentially nuked it IN MIQUELLA'S NAME. JUST to incapacitate Radahn, whom Miquella wanted as his consort.

Which, by now everyone knows my stance on Radahn! Radahn's whole presence in the DLC is complete bullshit -- there was no foreshadowing in the base game! It wasn't the Tarnished that killed Miquella; it was the red string!

And then the whole bewitchment of Mohg -- GOD! Like, people are SO hellbent on seeing Mohg as this pure evil monster, and will justify Miquella's bewitchment of him, and call Ansbach a biased liar for seeking justice.

Mohg was a victim. He was not a good guy - no! But he did not deserve what happened. He didn't deserve to get locked away in a sewer by Marika. He didn't deserve to get bewitched by Miquella, and subsequently have his body desecrated in death.

Which also ties in to the Pre-DLC Headcanoning of Miquella - I was onboard with Miquella/Mohg after initially being on the fence about it! The reason why I started shipping the two was because I liked the idea of Miquella, despite all the wrongs Mohg did, still having it within himself to show compassion; because yeah, Mohg WAS deserving of compassion.

Like, that's the kind of compassion I THOUGHT Miquella was striving for -- But we did NOT get that! Hell, the whole "Become our lord; not for gods, but for men" -- I thought that's why Miquella went all those lengths of shedding himself. So he could be mortal. So he COULD be a lord; not for gods, but for men.

Anyway though, TLDR: A good chunk of the playerbase was not expecting the direction they went with Miquella. A lot of people who had genuine faith in Miquella were left devastated. I was sympathetic. As a Mohg sympathizer myself, I was sympathetic toward people who were left disappointed over Miquella's characterization, as well as everything else that happened in the DLC.

Which is why I made DLC Disgruntlements! Like... I wanted a place where people could come in, vent their frustrations about whatever that got their goat in the DLC without spoiling it for everyone who wanted to go in blind! People didn't HAVE to agree with what others were saying; all I wanted, however, was that things be kept civil.

That didn't happen. One person voiced their frustrations about Miquella always being painted as this symbol of pure goodness while Mohg was always relegated as the 100% evil villain to be vanquished, and frustrated with people still trying to justify Miquella's actions in the DLC -- because it really IS no different from people arguing that Marika and Messmer were justified in their genocide of the Hornsent -- and got run out for it.

Like, I really DO understand being disappointed in the direction they went with Miquella's character -- He was acting on what he BELIEVED was good, but that doesn't mean that what he was working toward WAS actually good JUST because he believed in it.

They're... Trying to justify his actions in the DLC. Trying to paint him as entirely good who's done no evil, and it JUST...

Yeah, like I am really... Incredibly frustrated with it! It pushes my buttons!

And, like... Everyone else can gripe on their blogs. I think I can afford to just be a little bit precious on my own when it's something that DOES genuinely bug me! 🙄😒

[sealer-of-wenkamui]

Very glad muting/blocking exists cause one of the most annoying things to come out of the dlc is the amount of people acting like Mohg did nothing wrong and acting like he “beat the allegations”. As someone that loved him in the first place BECAUSE of the rape implications and the way you could see how his upbringing would lead him to have a very warped sense of love, I swear it’s just people looking for the first excuse to deny that. The charm is hardly complete mind control even on people that aren’t demigods, and no one else exhibits that level of possessiveness over Miquella on top of our source of info about this being a high ranking knight of Mohg’s who obviously is going to be biased (as annoying as I think him always talking about Mohg as a victim is, yeah of course he’s gonna focus on that. Also why do people act like he’s all good and pure too he’s part of the BLOOD CULT, and they’ve been shown to be very elegant? Like the sanguine nobles and Mohg himself even? It’s not that surprising he’d be polite and refined.)

[linda-ravstar]

You're so right about the Miquella stuff. The idea that he's getting a unique pass is laughable. He got second in the most evil demigod poll by a massive margin, and you don't have to look very far on Reddit to see extreme homophobic comments about him from Radahn fanboys is like open your eyes lol

So sorry about not answering you before, anon, but you are right. Everybody has their takes and interpretation regarding Miquella, Radahn and every other character. I think the DLC narrative is not univocal nor is clear or consistent. You can take one event and, with in game information, without headcanons and only using items, dialogues and environmental details, arrive at opposite conclussions, and both be supported. I think arguments can be made for different interpretations of events, and I even think we can argue "what's the most likely interpretation/what's the most likely intention of the writers", but at the end of the day you are still negotiating with the narrative.

All of that to say that yes, I don't think Miquella as character gets a unique pass. And yeah, sadly, there is a lot of homophobia and transphobia in the subtext of a lot of jokes, criticism and hate that some fans throw at the DLC depictions and characters, which is never okay.

There are always exceptions and fans that go to the extremes, but most people discuss the level of grayness/evilness/wrong stuff done by Miquella. Very few people, minimal I would say, seriously say that he did nothing wrong and that he is completely justified. On the contrary, a lot of people are pretty comfortable just writing him off as a complete evil mastermind that never cared about anything or anyone......... or an absolute stupid naive child that shouldn't have gone near anything more than a crayon. It depends, really. But this cartoonish depictions, I think, are slowly being left in the past. But things like Mohg's relationship to Miquella, the extent and nature of Miquella's charming powers, the nature of the vow between Radahn and Miquella, the motives behind the Battle of Aeonia, the status of Radahn in the final battle, the reason as to why Miquella discarded his flesh and 'soul' (doubts, love, fear), the nature of the original sin, the meaning of the Age of Compassions and a looot of other topics will probably be discussed for a long time. Which I suppose was the original intention.

[miirshroom]

Shadow of the Erdtree Ending (Spoiler)

I haven't gotten to that point myself yet, because I dislike rushing and will probably spend weeks combing through the environment. But I also find it more efficient to work with the ending in mind and the info is out there already so...

My thoughts on the reaction: the Miquella twist was in no way out of nowhere. The Bewitching Branch description was a smoking gun and this is payoff. Miquella being a childish character with bizarre desires for a consort is entirely expected because the nature of his being is to be an Eternal Child. Makes sense that Godwyn has almost nothing to do with this storyline because he was the old tarnished version of Miquella - Marika's older kid left behind in favour of the new Golden Child.

However, having gotten a more solid idea of the themes that FromSoft are going for here, people who are saying "this vindicates Mohg entirely" are completely missing the point. Think about where the DLC is accessed. Think about how Mohg in his cutscene emerges from the blood of the corpse in the cocoon. And maybe think of all of the things that were discarded from Miquella to reach the point that he does. The framing here is that Mohg imagines himself to be "bewitched" and hollowed out by Miquella, and so the flattened and idealized version of Miquella memorialized in this death dream complies by doing exactly that.

Elden Ring is and always has been a game about perspectives. The Shadowlands contains the worst and most pessimistic perspective by design. By getting inside Mohg's head and presenting his twisted perspective it may in a roundabout way validate the idea that the living Miquella had no particular mind control powers. More likely, Miquella had charisma and big dreams, but it was a point of frustration that he needed to metamorphose into an adult form to make those dreams reality for everyone. And it was his followers who crafted the Bewitching Branch in his name because they simply believed in him for the sake of idealism alone. But by inviting everyone to share in the dream with no filtering process they inevitably invited bad actors into the fold.

In other words, I suspect that going through this story and concluding that Mohg did no wrong is like reading Lolita and concluding that the narrator did nothing wrong.

[chibelial]

Debating on my next Elden Ring Build, please gimme your thoughts!

Under the cut I’ll describe builds I already have, and please in the notes talk about your own builds!

Alright I’ve got a few characters, 2 of which have been rebirthed into a new character/build. Here they are, in the order I made them

1. Veteran Blood Priest - Aegon: this being my first character, it went under a few revisions. I don’t remember exactly what build I was trying to run with initially, but as soon as I defeated Mohg and got the Sacred Spear; everything had to change. I love this weapon, it’s probably my favorite in the game. I revamped my character immediately into a wall of armor and poise, every stat that wasn’t put into stamina for that express purpose was poured into Arcane for max damage. With the Veterans armor and the bullgoat talisman, I could almost always activate the weapon art uninterrupted, and it would even melt bosses who can’t bleed. I went into NG+ and finished near every boss in maybe 12-15 hours and I take these playthroughs SLOW, the trident was just that strong, especially its weapon art. However I leveled this guy to like 170 or 180 and after that I realized you generally wanna stop anywhere between the 90s and the 140s, so I really don’t play him anymore, hence why I have bleed characters and a trident build on my list lol, I’d like to make one within decent leveling parameters. Also, this guy got the Frenzy ending. I found the 3 fingers by accident on my first playthrough and got the most vile ending.

2. Black Flame Knight - Bakura: Night’s Cavalry Armor and all the black flame incantations, maxed out godskin seal and godskin peeler. With Shard of Alexander and some other fire damage buffs, nothing melts bosses faster and more consistently than the black flame tornado, and all the spells are just insanely strong. People who say Intelligence/Dexterity builds are playing in easy mode may not be wrong, but I’d wager the game is almost as easy when you run a proper black flame set up.

Initially this guy was gonna be a death sorcerer, the name Bakura was a Yugioh reference to Bakura who always used occult themed cards and quite famously had destiny board, which I was supplementing as the rancor spells. Like 2/3 way through the game the build was trash. I just didn’t do it right cuz my brother has built a phenomenal death rite sorcerer. Ended up rebirthing and doing a black flame build. Haven’t renamed him yet but I probably will give him something more suiting.

3. Ranni’s Consort Eternal - Asmodeus: This was meant to be a conglomerate of all the “night” themed magic stuff I could use, and ofc this character did ranni’s ending. I used the zweidander with a magic, and later a frost weapon art, for most of the playthrough, to get myself ready for the Darkmoon Sword. Tried out Blaidd’s as well and loved it, but stuck w the darkmoon for immersion. Sorceries were a mix of night and gravity sorceries. I think I threw in 1 or 2 frost ones near the end just to prock the status more often.

4. Perfumer/Status Build - Carl Weezer: my brother and I were doing Carl weezer (from the show Jimmy Neutron for those unaware) and one night when I was stumped on what to do w a new character, I was like fuck it let’s make Carl. So I used the Godskin Noble armor, with the Albinauric mask, and I specifically made use of breathe and scream attacks. Using talismans to boost those and the perfume items, Carl was a VERY gimmicky tarnished. If you’re confused as to why the scream, breathe, and perfume attacks, it was simple. Carl is always defined by his failing health and his asthma so we decided, the perfume items were his inhalers and the breathe attacks kinda fit too. Scream attacks were based on the fantastic 4 / X-Men episode where his powers are burp based. Sorry to offend asthmatics but I had very little to work with. Carl ended up being such a mess that I rebirthed him with rennala and turned him into the next character I’ll list -

5. Beast Champion: This guy had Bernhal’s full set of armor, except of the head which was the Blaidd mask. Maim focus was just damage with the Beast Claw Hammer, but I ran the claw mark seal and all the beast incantations as well, along with a couple crucible spells. Ran a Cinquedea as well for a speedy option during pvp. I tried to use physical buff items and spells as often as possible to make up for the fact that this build was pure physicality, no damage dealing items weapons or skills unless they dealt physical

6. Lord of Frenzied Flame - Tenebrae: My magnum opus. This tarnished is the best in pvp of any of my builds, and aesthetically he’s so perfect. He’s a balance between faith and arcane, and I have the dragon communion seal in 1 hand and the frenzy in the other. I wear Eleanora’s gauntlets and have the Frenzy seal in the gold hand, and the communion seal in the red dragon scaled hand. I usually cast with the frenzy seal for the buff but in pvp the communion seal builds frenzy super easy on other players. With the gauntlets I just have Morgott’s Robe and the Merchants Headpiece, the headpiece is obv a reference to where the three fingers are found as well as Kalé’s cut questline. I thought morgott’s robe looked so raggedy and worn, it was perfect, plus what a mocking gesture to the golden order and the greater will than to be clad in the robe of Leyndell’s last king. It also was the only piece I could think of that kinda suited the giant flaming head you get during the end cutscene, thing has the watermelon for head size like SpongeBob’s sweater of tears. Ofc I was also running Vykes spear with this guy, but he was mostly a caster.

7. Blood Knight - Belial: I basically wanted to make a bleed character who was super fast instead of super slow and tanky, unfortunately I chose to use Eleanora’s poleblade instead of katanas or reduvia or something. It’s such a cool weapon but I was struggling a bit at the endgame, so I rebirthed this guy to use the trident again, but with a light roll. He’s currently got Mohg’s robe and I switch the other armor around here and there. I’m not sure what I’ll end up doing with this tarnished he hasn’t finished the game. Maybe the dlc will give us a twinmace and I can turn him into Ultraman Belial. I think I may just NG+ him into one of the guilds on the poll.

8. Adherent of Rot - Icky Vicky: this character focuses on inflicting rot and poison on strong enemies, while quickly cutting away HP with powerstanced daggers and consecutive damage boosting talismans. Right now she mainly uses 2 scorpion stingers and swaps 1 for reduvia at times. Haven’t NG+ yet but someone gave me a 2nd stinger. I’d like to get a 2nd Antspur rapier, with a poison weapon art both weapons could build rot and poison simultaneously. Character also wears Malenia’s gear with the mushroom crown. I use perfume items a lot and the poison and rot pots.

[barnabusbarnabus]

All fair and reasonable. I reach a hand across the aisle in friendship - Both Characters Did Nothing Wrong, Except For All Those Things They Did Wrong.

For what it's worth, I do genuinely love Mohg's theatricality too - it's what drew me to the character in the first place. I even think that he was always Like That, aesthetically - I think that Mohgwyn was also always Like That. It's just that I headcanon that it started out as a tongue-in-cheek "we're the obvious villains so we may as well act the part" bit, very "Thou call'dst me dog before thou hadst a cause; / But, since I am a dog, beware my fangs." - and then it started attracting people who genuinely no-shit seriously bought into it and went "yeah, let's be fucking evil, slaughter babies and murder entire villages". Ansbach and his order likely kept them out/kept them pointed towards productive targets/sacrificed them upon the altars of blood depending on how deranged they were, but once the original Pureblood Knights died out there was nothing stopping Mohgwyn from being populated with psychos.

Also, in terms of Morgott, I think he's ostensibly slightly less normal than Mohg was at the beginning - the man has catholic guilt in a universe in which christianity does not exist, and he's really self-effacing all the goddamn time - but fundamentally a lot more stable because he had something to fixate on during their durance in the sewers, no matter how unhealthy that fixation later becomes. Mohg's time in the sewers was empty of meaning or love, and so the Formless Mother got her hooks into him; even as he strove to be a good, just, respectable ruler, the curseblood was forever roiling under the surface, waiting for a moment of weakness.

Mohg's stability is fundamentally superficial; a sufficiently destabilising event, such as Miquella's enchantment, could break it completely. That's what makes him tragic. Morgott's stability is much more deeply-rooted; unshakeable to the end, even when it costs him his life. That's what makes him tragic.

what do mohglers have to say about the bloodfiends im genuinely so curious…. because it def would seem to be more formless mother bloodshed motifs -> insinuating that bloodshed genuinely is just part of her patronage

also oomf said that bloodflame was also kind of a hornsent/omen thing but they dont exactly look like omens? what does cursed blood even mean……

[allknowingofnir]

Another Afternoon in Liurnia

He had traveled without Ensha this time, and had gone in a different guise than the hallmark helmet he was known for. It would be too obvious and would draw far too much attention especially given where he was headed this day. The large turtle opened his eyes as the visitor in grey robes entered the ruins of the Church of Vows, looking about.

“Welcome, dear visitor. I am Miriel, steward of this sacred place. What guidance are you in need of?” The turtle turned his head toward the visitor. Gideon lowered the hood, squinting his eyes in the afternoon sunlight. He still wasn’t used to being out and about like this, beyond the walls of the Hold.

“Ah, I must thank you for sending your student to the Hold for instruction, it is an honor to do so.” Ofnir bowed his head toward Miriel. Miriel’s eyes lit up at mention of that before nodding briefly.

“Ah, Sir Gideon Ofnir, an honor to meet you in the flesh. I must admit, it was a surprise to hear one as busy as yourself show interest in such matters. Has the issue of ascendance to the throne been resolved then?” The turtle asked, voice hopeful. Gideon made a light frown and shook his head. Miriel remained cheerful regardless.

“I’m afraid not. I am here on a related business. You may be aware already of the title I go by, the All-Knowing, but I’m not here to boast to a holy man in his church. Even my hubris hasn’t degraded my sense to that level of debasement.” Gideon said, sitting on the ground to meet Miriel’s gaze easier. The turtle nodded, seemingly content to be engaging in conversation.

“That is good news indeed, Sir Ofnir. I am humbled to know someone remembers the holiness of this place and its value to the Order. Few stop by on matters beyond absolution, but do not think I disparage such things if that’s what brings you here yourself.” Miriel chuckled with himself at that. Gideon said nothing, it had been a serious consideration.

“I’m more interested in hearing of your... philosophy, you might say. Word along the grape vine is that you disparage the idea of heresy as a concept, that all things can be reconciled?” Ofnir asked, pulling the hood of his cloak up once more to keep the light of the sun and Erdtree out of his eyes. Miriel considered the question.

“I would not say it is a matter of philosophy but rather... an expression of kindness, that even that which may seem at odds can still be made to relate to something else. The joining of the Moon and Erdtree brought about a peace when there had been war, and even if the union of Rennala and Radagon did not last, that bond is still maintained to this day. You yourself make use of the Glintstone Sorceries of the Academy, even though you are an ally of the Erdtree, yes?” Miriel lowered his head, closing his eyes. He knew the question would give Gideon something to think on for some time.

Perhaps it was possible, when put that way, Gideon contemplated. There were some elements that would always oppose any and all attempts to bring the lands together. Mt. Gelmir and the Recusants came to mind immediately, though other elements would resist on history. The Omens and their scorn would not be easily forgotten or forgiven. Mohg was still out there, and so long as he had planned his own dynasty any change to the Throne would be opposed, but perhaps that was something they would have to face when that day came either way.

“Oh yes, you mentioned it briefly, but... absolution?” Gideon asked, motioning toward the basin. Miriel looked at Gideon, his ancient eyes peering into the All-Knowing’s. Gideon felt the weight of his heart in the back of his throat, not from a look of shame or scorn from the great turtle, but the kindness the creature’s gaze granted him. Miriel understood, not condone, but understood that Gideon had done wrong, hurt others. There was, for him, still hope. He motioned toward Gideon’s side, knowing what lie in the glass bottle he had brought with him. 

“You know it, Sir Ofnir. I would not expect you to come here and be unaware of it. However, I will once more recite it. Anoint yourself with the Celestial Dew within the basin, and repent of your wrongs. The transgressions of your deeds will be remiss.” Miriel motioned toward the fountain at the end of the church.

Gideon said nothing but once more bowed his head toward the great turtle, standing there for a long, quiet moment. Finally he stepped over, lowering the hood of his cloak. He removed the bottle of celestial dew from his satchel and held it above his head.

“May the stars bear witness, to the misdeeds of a proud old fool.”

[bloodrosebriars]

smouldring​:

She found no reason not to be kind to him. After all, he hadn’t defaulted to violence when they’d first met; he’d actually spoken with her – and not just talked at her, either, but listened, and responded to what she said and what she did without making the worst of assumptions. In the Lands Between, such a person still capable of reason was invaluable, and while she’d realized very quickly that her new friend wasn’t perfect, well, neither was she, nor anybody else. If she stood around waiting for perfection, she would never get anywhere. Such was her philosophy in questing and friend-making.

       Staring at the blade, she could just barely recall where she’d found it. It had been at the head of the Agheel Lake, back when she’d been wandering about with nowhere in particular to go, simply soaking in the ambience of the region. The invader had come out of nowhere, and it was only with help from Yura that she’d survived. Yura… she wondered where he was now. She hadn’t even picked up the knife then; she had stepped on it on her way out of the cave, half-sunk into the mud at the bottom of the river, and had picked it up absently. That man, that Nerijus – had he once stood here with Lord Mohg, the same as she? Well. He’d chosen his opponents poorly.

       Her eyes widened a bit as he cut into his finger, smearing the steel with blood. “Hey–,” she began, only to abort the warning. He knew what he was doing; she just couldn’t help it but worry. Then again, it was nothing she hadn’t done before. The art of bloodletting was relatively new to her, but she found it extremely effective in battle. She’d been plucking blood roses and mixing them with resin to coat her blade long before she’d met Mohg. Now she watched, curious, as the great lord swung the Reduvia in a wide arc, unleashing blood and flame upon the garden. She felt compelled to clap, and then thought better of it. It was probably improper. Instead, she made a soft sound of appreciation.

       “–wait, me?” She hadn’t expected that. Fire and blood were her modus operandi, but, faced with Mohg’s assessing gaze, she found herself growing nervous. Why? She’d used a knife plenty of times, and she certainly knew how to do this. “Alright!” Moving with a confidence she didn’t really feel, she cut the air a few times with the knife, then tried a stab. Nothing happened. Pursing her lips, she swung again; again, nothing. What was she doing wrong? Magic was a slippery thing. When it came to incantations and sorceries, she was a poor learner. Only the art of dragonfire made any sense to her, and then, only very little. Overall, her casting left much to be desired. Was she missing something to make this work? Or was she simply too weak.

       The thought didn’t sit right with her. No, she was better than this. She wasn’t going to give up after the first try. Besides, she was a warrior, and she wanted to prove to this lord that she could stand as his equal. If she couldn’t eke blood from the blade, she had a good supply of it, herself. Spinning the dagger around, she took a breath, then plunged it into her own chest, hitting center and bumping up against the sternum. It hurt, but she didn’t falter, and as she drew the blade free, the wound closed. Crimson gathered on the cutting edge and flew out in an arc; her eyes burned gold; the fire that came of it was not of the Formless Mother, and smelled strongly of dragon ash, but it was fire nevertheless, and the scent of burning roses filled the garden.

As always, Merri’s confident optimism, whether forced or not, is infectious, and Mohg finds himself smiling down at her with a sense of almost paternal pride that he has yet to notice he really only feels with her. Ah, a realisation for another day. Still, he has great faith in her abilities, and is eager to see her cast the blade’s peculiar spell.

When her first attempt fails, he frowns. When her second and third ones do too, he finds himself looking down upon her with something more akin to worry than anything else. Surely she, with all her flint and kindler, would be able to call forth the blade’s bloody enchantment, would she not? For the sake of doubt, many a Bloody Finger before her has held this blade, and only a sour few have ever been able to cast the spell, but… this is Merri we’re talking about. Surely she has it in her…?

In a way, it turns out… yes, actually. It seems she does.

The Omen’s brow raises in surprise when Merri turns the blade upon herself, familiar enough with spells of all matters from his countless fights with sorcerers and numerous studies on the matter that he worries not for her safety, but is still surprised that her stubborn will was creative enough to find a means around the end. Ah, suppose he was foolish to think Merri wouldn’t be capable of coming up with something clever to bypass her own magical impasse. She always has been the creative sort, and deathly curious to witness. His smile returns as the roses burst into flame, flickering with dragonfire and smoke.

Though the flame be not the Mother’s, he is proud nonetheless; and while Merri may have foregone applause for the sake of his display, he, on the other hand, thinks she rightly deserves it. Monstrous, clawed hands would soon clap together in gentle congratulations — a bit softer than he would like, given the scissors he still holds, but honest nonetheless — as one would clap for a singer upon a stage. Is this display not musical in its own right, after all? It certainly sings a beautiful song.

“Thou never cease to impress me, my smouldering lamb,” Mohg says, lacing one hand behind his back, his other coming to rest gently upon Merri’s shoulder. “Rare is it that I am fortunate enough to see thee in action, as the saying goes. Ah, forgive me for oft forgetting the magnitude of thy strength. Thou’rt such a kind lamb, and carry thyself with equal grace, that it is easy to underestimate thee.” His smile turns mischievous. He pats her shoulder gently. “Perhaps I should be worried, in truth, that thou will one day overtake Miquella’s due throne, and become Elden Lord thyself.”

A genuine statement. His brow remains quirked as he says this, as if to ask, Is that your plan?