#and if you genuinely believe what he’s saying then he’s successfully manipulated you

[excaliefur]

it’s one thing to be able to reclaim a slur because you’re a part of the community that it affects and it’s another to call anyone, let alone a group of people who are probably still minors, that slur in a way you mean to cause offense with.

dream is a garbage human and I cannot believe that anyone can still defend him.

[ckret2]

What's your stance on Ford as a person? Honestly, I believe that for thr majority of canon he is a bad person. But I believe he grew. Still not great though XD

(Love him anyways obvs)

I disagree entirely! I think he's equally as good a person as any of the other main cast.*

*Except Mabel, who, as we all know, is always right about everything.**

(**This is a lighthearted joke. For the love of god, I don't want Mabel discourse in my inbox.)

His biggest sins in the show:

After telling his brother that he was thinking about changing their shared life plans, and then discovering that his brother had gone to the high school that night for no good reason and gone to the science fair for no good reason and messed around near Ford's science project for no good reason and broke it and didn't tell Ford about it... Ford believed Stan did it intentionally and held a grudge for it. You know what, it WOULD be pretty damn hard to believe it was an accident.

Hilariously ill-equipped to cope with Fiddleford's mental health. A guy who responds to "I have anxiety" with "have you tried yoga, it helps me" isn't a bad person, he's clueless. "Character cheerfully enacts a bad idea while a loved one in the background goes NO PLEASE DON'T DO THAT" describes half the episodes of Gravity Falls.

Was successfully manipulated by a professional manipulator into believing his best friend wished him ill. Man, what a terrible person Ford is for being manipulated by a manipulator and saying cruel things to somebody he'd been genuinely convinced was trying to harm him.

??? Didn't say thanks to a guy he was still mad at after the guy fixed a problem he himself had caused. This is a solitary example of stubborn bad etiquette, jesus christ. There's half a dozen different reasons why it makes perfect sense Ford wasn't in the right mindset to feel grateful, this is not something worth indicting his entire character over.

He had high ambitions, which everyone seems to lambast him for, but high ambitions that wouldn't have required doing anybody harm! (Until the professional manipulator started manipulating him into harming the people around him, but we are going to demonstrate some reading comprehension and not blame Ford's underlying morality as a person for things he never would've done if not for Bill's bullying, con artistry, and outright lies.) Like, what is it that he wanted to do with his life? Use his talents to get rich and famous? Shit, that's exactly what Stan wanted to do with his life. It's what Dipper fantasizes about doing with his life. Even Mabel, who thinks about her long-term future the least, dreams big with her art & performances and is already making big money off cheap-ass commissions. What terrible people they all are, for—let me check my notes here—uhhh... unrealistically fantasizing about achieving success in life by doing the things they're good at.

When their dad accuses Stan of lying as a child, Ford puts his entire summer on the line to defend Stan even though he knows Stan is a habitual liar and has no reason to believe Stan is telling the truth this time.

When his new college roommate he barely even knows gets laughed at for proposing an outlandish scientific theory, his first emotion is outrage at this injustice and he drops everything to convince his already-despondent roommate that he was right and help him prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

When he moves to a new town, he tries again and again to befriend his new neighbors, and fails not because he's rude or a jerk, but because he's awkward as hell, tells terrible jokes, and sucks at identifying phoenixes.

When Fiddleford gets hurt around him, he cares about it, feels guilty about putting him in that position, doesn't want it to happen again, and tries his best to help even though he's bad at helping.

When he gets kidnapped by a weird holiday folklore creature, he concludes without even thinking about it that he's now in charge of protecting and rescuing the kidnapped kids. Yeah, then he immediately starts hollering at the folklore creature for trying to impose his religious beliefs on Ford and the kids—but like, Ford was right tho, he just had bad timing.

When he discovers that the Northwest family committed atrocities against their poorer neighbors a century ago, his first instinct is to march up to their house, find the first Northwest he can locate, and give them a piece of his mind for it. Like, this won't even FIX anything. He's just THAT OUTRAGED over the injustice.

When he sees what he thinks is a fortune telling fraud conning the people, he attempts to debunk her because he's mad to see someone cheating other people with lies—and when he can't debunk her, he just leaves her alone rather than harass her about it. Typically, if assholes think somebody's doing something wrong but don't have any proof of it and fail to get proof when they look, they decide they're right anyway and keep giving that person shit. Ford doesn't give her shit. That's the opposite of an asshole move.

When he discovers his Portal To Knowledge (And Fame & Fortune) is actually a Portal To Doom (But Still Possibly Fame & Fortune, Maybe Even Godly Power), he isn't tempted for a second to keep working on it anyway. There is no moment where Bill manages to tempt him. No matter what Bill offers, no matter how long Bill offers, never, at ANY point, does Ford have a SECOND of "but what if I did make a deal with the devil?" the way so many heroes in similar situations often do.

You ever notice that? So often moral moments in the show are presented as choices the characters make. Will or won't Dipper give Bill a "puppet" in exchange for knowledge. Will or won't Stan fight a pterodactyl to protect Mabel's pig. Will or won't Mabel hand Bipper the journal. Ford is never given a "will or won't he" moment over Bill's threats, offers of friendship, or offers of infinite power—he steamrolls straight past them without a second of consideration—because, to him, the selfish, cowardly, easy choice ISN'T EVEN AN OPTION. He doesn't even SEE it as making a choice because the possibility of doing the wrong thing is invisible. A character who wavers first before turning Bill down would look more noble for "overcoming" temptation—it's harder to notice just how much stronger Ford's moral compass must be to not even feel temptation in the first place.

Greed and pride never tempt him to join Bill's side. Exhaustion, despair, and fear never tempt him to give up. He bears up under weeks, possibly months of extreme sleep deprivation, physical torture, psychological torture, emotional torture, threats of death, threats of brainwashing, threats to his family. He doesn't hold up so that he can pat himself on the back for being a hero—if that was all it was he would've gone "screw it, this isn't worth it and nobody would know I'm the one who gave up" a week in—he does it because he simply knows it must be done and because he's so isolated (half because of Bill's influence!) that he believes he's the one who must do it, all alone.

Thinking he has to do it by himself isn't egotism or pride; it's helplessness. He thinks no one else stands a chance. He thinks he's alone.

And, when he discovers his Portal To Knowledge is a Portal To Doom, he immediately feels guilty. No trying to deny the situation to protect his ego. No shuffling the blame off to someone else. No "maybe the apocalypse could have a silver lining!" No locking the door and trying to ignore the problem. He blames himself for being fooled—he IMMEDIATELY takes full responsibility for his actions—and he CONTINUES to take responsibility FOR THE NEXT THIRTY YEARS.

He takes more responsibility than is even warranted—he treats himself like he's an idiot for believing in an APPARENT GOD who's been practicing manipulating humans for thousands of years and who had never given Ford reason to believe the portal was anything but what Bill said it was. He beats himself up to no end every single time his past with Bill comes up. He even keeps beating himself up thirty years later when he's shoving warning notes to future readers in Bill's evil unkillable book!

When he falls into the multiverse, he dedicates his entire life NOT to finding a way to rescue himself, but to finding a way to permanently stop the CHAOS GOD who's still at the threshold of destroying Ford's world and countless others. He makes himself a hated criminal in the process, just to stop Bill. He's ready to spend the rest of his life trying to protect a world he doesn't think he'll ever see again. He does it because, as he sees it, somebody has to stand in between the children and the obnoxious folklore cryptid menacing them, and he's the only adult in this damn cave with the skills and knowledge for the job.

When he gets home, he doesn't tell his family about Bill and his quest because he's afraid that doing so will get them involved and endanger them too—and because he's too deeply ashamed of himself and his mistakes to stand the thought of his family knowing about the horrible things he's done (AGAIN, WHILE BEING MANIPULATED BY THE GOD OF MANIPULATION).

He loves his great-niece and great-nephew the second he lays eyes on them; he nevertheless tries to steer away from them to keep them safe from Bill; and yet he caves to the very first temptation to emotionally bond with his great-nephew he gets, because in spite of his noble "keep them safe" intentions, he wants so so badly to be close to his family.

As pissed as he still is at Stan and even though neither of them can look at each other without hissing like cats, he still makes an attempt to start bridging their divide by inviting him to play DD&MD.

When the apocalypse happens, he immediately puts his life on the line to try to kill Bill.

And when he's captured, isn't fazed for a second by Bill's offers or threats... until his family is threatened. The exact thing he'd been trying to avoid & prevent from the very start.

And when he's reunited with Fiddleford, his immediate reaction is to point out that Fiddleford's well within his rights to hate him—which isn't a new revelation, it's not like Ford had to do any soul-searching to reach this conclusion, he'd concluded that 30 years ago the instant he realized Bill had played him and that he'd been lied to about Fiddleford.

And then he tries to kill Bill again.

And then he's ready to sacrifice his own life to kill Bill—and the only reason he doesn't is because he has a metal plate preventing him from making the sacrifice... but, Stan doesn't have a plate. If Ford hadn't had the metal plate, he would have gladly done the exact same thing Stan did—and he would have thought it was right for him and only him to make that sacrifice, because it's VERY clear he feels (and has felt from the start) that this is all his fault and he's obligated to fix it.

Over and over and over, these are Ford's two defining character traits: getting so pissed off at injustice that his common sense shuts off and he goes into terminator mode until he's righted this wrong as best he can, even when he can't actually do anything about it; and feeling like he's Atlas, weighed down with the full responsibility of fixing everything he's done wrong and made to believe that, for everyone else's sake, he has to do it all alone. Even when doing so puts himself in harm's way, even when he has to put his entire life on hold for it, even if it might cost him his life. Scrape off his awkward social skills, his loneliness, his nerdiness, his endless curiosity, his zealous love of the strange, his starry ambitions, his yearning for recognition and success—scrape his personality down to the bone and that's what you're left with. A man who believes in defending the exploited so strongly that it makes him a little stupid.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that you probably don't think Stan's fundamentally a bad person, and that you probably think that isn't even worth questioning. Stan's made a whole career out of swindling people, conning them out of as much money as he possibly can, stealing, lying, committing a long list of goofily-named crimes, and attempting douchy pick-up artistry on women; and to cap it all off, he held the safety of the entire universe hostage to demand a goddamn "thank you." Don't send me any "But he had reasons—" "But it was only to—" I don't need it, I don't want the essay, I'm not arguing that Stan's a bad guy, it's fine.

But. You can look at Stan's moments of cruelty and unkindness, his uncharitable thoughts, his character flaws, and think, "that doesn't define him. He's more than his cruelest moments and worst mistakes. He's imperfect, but he cares so much and his heart's in the right place, and beneath all the flaws his core is good."

And if you can't do the same for Ford, it's not because he's a worse person. It's because we got two seasons with Stan and five and a half episodes with Ford—and while we saw Stan yearning to fish with the kids or encouraging Mabel to whoop Pacifica's butt at minigolf or crying over a black and white period drama or punching zombies to save his family, we only saw Ford at the worst moments in his life and under the stress of a prolonged apocalyptic crisis—and, it so happens, all the moments he was pissed at the guy we spent two seasons learning to love.

Ford's got moments of cruelty and unkindness, uncharitable thoughts, and character flaws. But, at his core, he's a good person, and he always has been, and he still is.

[jingledbells]

Ford defenders like you are now called "Ford apologists": https://eeveelotions.tumblr.com/post/772624427048419328/hey-ford-apologists-dont-interact-with-my-stuff

i feel like. I can kind of understand where this person is coming from like yes he does have flaws and make mistakes and I acknowledge this but there's a difference between saying a character doesn't have flaws and defending them from fans who demonize/heavily mischaracterize them.

in fords case, there are so many people shitting on him for things that are false or misinterpretations of things he’s said and done. a good chunk of the fandom has an irrational hatred for him.

as well as this the fandom also waters down his trauma to make it seem like nothing compared to Stan's as well as making countless jokes about his trauma. for example, the thousands of jokes made about bills abuse of ford. I cannot count the times I've seen people look at this abuse and their only takeaway/only thing they have to say about this is 'haha he fucked the triangle.' as someone who's been in an abusive relationship in the past it is extremely tiring to see these jokes constantly thrown around about bill and fords relationship. either people are ignorant and cannot see that their relationship is textbook abuse or they do know but just don't care(what is wrong with you) and I genuinely don't know what's worse.

as well as this, there is a tremendous amount of victim blaming being made towards ford when discussing ford and bills relationship. I've seen so many people straight up say it's ford's own fault for getting abused by bill and it was because of his 'hubris' and 'huge ego' and his 'selfishness', which is no thing to ever say about a victim of abuse. ive also seen people call ford 'stupid' for getting manipulated by bill, which is a) wrong, because bill has successfully manipulated and abused many others before for(have you read tbob), and has manipulated other members of the pines family shown in the show, and b) just victim blaming. I don't even know what else to say about this but many of you cannot be normal about abuse victims in media.

regarding his growing distance with fiddleford during portal construction era, this is caused by bill isolating ford from him, one of the only humans he's in contact with which is a technique often used by abusers. many people claim this is because ford 'views fiddleford as lesser', or 'has little respect towards him', which is straight up wrong. ford states in the journal that he is a great friend and a brilliant scientist and engineer, and his appreciation of him is shown through his excitement of his arrival and immediately gets to making him feel welcome in his home and gifts him with microchips and banjo strings. in fact, when they first met in college, ford was the only one who genuinely believed his theory and he immediately jumped to helping him prove it for 9 hours, despite barely knowing the man. their bond, whether romantic or platonic is strong and that's why bill's isolating ford from fiddleford is so vital to bills abuse of ford.

not only that but these people are obsessing over Stan's homelessness for ten years but don't dare acknowledge that ford has been homeless for thirty. they fail to acknowledge that both Stan and ford were being abused by filbrick even if it showed in different ways. ford wasn't favored by his mother(his mother favored stan) and his father didn't see him as anything but a way to make money for his family, providing him only conditional love and not seeing him as his own person aside from his intelligence and his hands. this is often something many immigrant children experience, having endless pressure to succeed and get top notch grades and choose a high salary career in order to raise their family out of poverty. and if they were to slip up, they would often get severely punished or even physically hurt as a result. so logically, ford being upset by this is very understandable, not to mention he was also a teenager when this happened.

i have more examples I could use, but tldr, defending ford from fandom mischaracterization, victim blaming, and from claims being made about him that are blatantly false is not equal to saying he lacks flaws or hasn't made mistakes.

[saintsenara]

I’m curious how you envision Voldemort tasking Draco with killing Dumbledore. What would the conversation sound like? Angry threats, quiet manipulation, dramatics? Did he outsource it? Stick a post-it to the top of Nagini’s head and send her into Draco’s room? HBP provides some insights into Voldemort’s reasons and expectations and Draco’s motivations for attempting the task. And if I recall, it’s meant to be a secret even among the Death Eaters (Bellatrix is surprised that Snape knows already, right?), otherwise I’d be inclined to imagine some public humiliation during one of the biweekly Death Eater meetings. I don’t think I’ve ever read a fan take on the scene itself and would love to hear your thoughts!

the only logical conclusion is that voldemort is lovely to him, which - in context - means voldemort honing in on his desire to avenge his father's incarceration [for which he can be plausibly made to blame dumbledore, as well as harry], his belief that this makes him the man of the house with a responsibility to protect his mother and honour his family name, and his belief that voldemort's aims are the establishment of pureblood oligarchy, in which families like his will be at the top of the pile.

draco is bullish about his task at the start of half-blood prince because - as narcissa tells snape - he genuinely believes it will all be fine. this is clearly an impression voldemort himself has given him - if voldemort's saying "if you fail, i will make you watch greyback tear your mother's throat out" from the off, his attitude would be very different.

and voldemort not telling many people about the mission is another strand of this grooming process. if draco's mission were public knowledge, there's a reasonable chance that several death eaters might at least hint to draco that he's fucked - or might alternatively offer him help in successfully killing dumbledore [which voldemort doesn't want him to actually do; he wants dumbldore dead, but he wants snape to do it, with draco then tortured/killed as a punishment for his failure]. keeping it a secret indulges draco's desire to be seen as special and to have a uniquely important relationship with voldemort, while making him all the more vulnerable to voldemort's control.

the threats clearly come later. by christmas, draco is looking "ill", but is still defiant and still claims he'll be successful. by easter, he's started crying to myrtle and has started to openly acknowledge that voldemort's going to kill him. on the basis of this, i imagine that the botched necklace scheme got him something along the lines of "ah... draco... lord voldemort understands that mistakes happen... but he does not tolerate them happening more than once", and the botched poison scheme got him "you have until 30th june. if dumbledore's still alive by then i will kill your father, your mother, and you. in that order."

[deckofcookiez]

The Alex Kister Situation

Alright; I've been more of a lurker on here for awhile, but for months now--almost a year--I've been a massive fan of the Mandela Catalogue, and this fandom has been a major form of escapism and safety for me. So, I feel the need to say something about the current situation.

To start, I'm putting a link to the document with all of the information about what happened, as it's important to read it and learn about this whole situation in depth:

With that out of the way, I just wanted to share my own personal opinion; personally, Mandela Catalogue has legitimately become my special interest. I have pretty much obsessed over it ever since I first found it, and everything I've written or drawn since then has been to do with it. It's been very important to me, especially due to the community here on tumblr, as this fandom is probably the most supportive and open places on the internet I've found. I feel a lot more connected because of it, and it made me feel comfortable and safe.

I was in a bad mental space today, and when I found out about this, I had a pretty bad breakdown--some might call it an overreaction, but you don't know just how dependent my mental health had become on this series and fandom. (I will be working on avoiding this habit in the future, as it isn't healthy to depend so heavily on one interest)

After reading through the document, and just seeing so many opinions and contributions from others, I am almost certain that these allegations are true. But I always, always listen to all perspectives before making judgement, so I will not be going full "I hate Alex, he's a despicable person!!" before Alex gives his own point of view.

That being said, I do believe Alex has serious issues that he needs to get handled. I am hesitant to call this pedophilia, as from what I've gathered, he didn't seem to have active malicious intent towards minors(correct me if I missed something that said otherwise)--rather, I get the impression that Alex simply doesn't understand boundaries, and genuinely saw his fans as mutuals. He seems to be a person who's manipulative--whether intentionally or not--and his personal relationships, platonic, romantic, or sexual, turn very toxic because of this. So, trying to have personal relationships with fans, people who look up to him and see him in a very different light, results in inevitable toxicity as well.

I get the sense that Alex simply is a young person, struggling with mental health and gender dysphoria, who was thrust into extreme popularity very suddenly, and doesn't have the maturity level to handle it properly. Overall, I do not support him, if he continues to act like this--if he makes genuine, real efforts to deal with his mental health and his unhealthy behaviours, I would respect him for that. I wouldn't look at him quite the same, but as long as someone makes genuine efforts to better themself after doing something wrong, I appreciate and respect that, and may eventually give forgiveness. But, if he doesn't make those efforts, if he continues his patterns and refuses to try and get better, then that is on him and at that point I have lost any and all respect for him. At that point, you are not a good or reasonable person, in my eyes.

Regardless of how things go with Alex himself, though, I want to say...

You do not have to support a creator to enjoy their work!!

I am a huge fan of Danny Phantom, and that show's creator is a genuine piece of shit. Like, a truly despicable human being. That fandom successfully has, just... completely ripped the show and characters from their creator. They have cut him out entirely, nothing he says holds any impact or meaning to them and it hasn't for years. He's seriously fallen off. And it's still a fun, active fandom! The people in there are super neat!!

And, hell, look at the whole mess with J. K. Rowling!! She is an absolutely disgusting person. But so many people grew up with Harry Potter, and still like her stories, without actively supporting her--lots of creators turn out to be really awful people, but that doesn't mean that what they made is automatically awful as well. They still have some kind of creative ability, that happened to produce something that garnered a significant amount of attention.

We don't need Alex to still enjoy the concept, characters, and overall story he's created. We can still make fanworks, still appreciate what it is that drew us to the series in the first place.

Honestly, out of everything that the fallout of this would bring, I was most terrified of the fandom itself dying, as that is what truly matters the most to me. This place, these people are so important to me, and I am so scared of this community falling apart. I've already seen plenty of people stating that they will no longer be associating with TMC, and are just completely distancing themselves from it. It feels like things are already dying and disappearing and it really, really fucking hurts.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that... if that is your choice, if you truly do not want to associate with TMC anymore whatsoever, then I don't blame you for it. I understand if you can't look at the series the same way after this, and I respect that choice.

But you don't have to, if it still means anything to you. Fandoms are more than just their creators--they're the community that has been built around the work, and this community is possibly the best one I've ever been in. I don't want to see it die. So, just know, that you can still love this fandom, this story, these characters, without supporting Alex. You can still draw the characters, make OCs, write fanfiction, etc. He won't get money from that--only from directly watching his content or buying his merch.

Finally, I'd like to say to go support the victims. They didn't deserve this--no matter what Alex's intentions were. Please support them, and regardless of how this turns out, do not continue actively supporting Alex Kister. I am sure that, whatever his intentions were, he did still harm people and that is not okay.

Also, this is all just my own opinion, based on what I know; I was not in the discord, I don't have Twitter, I don't personally know anyone involved and I have not seen everything regarding the situation as a whole. I simply felt I should state my current opinion, as I'm seeing a lot of people freaking out and spiraling and just leaving the fandom entirely. I wanted to remind people that it's okay to still enjoy this fandom and be a part of it, without Alex. My opinion may change some with new information I find, but overall, I am of the opinion that Alex should not be supported, while the Mandela Catalogue itself can be separated from him and still be enjoyed and appreciated.

And, whatever happens... Adam Murray, Jonah Marshall and Thatcher Davis are officially honorary characters in my stash of little guys. If he's not fit to keep them then they will become my creative outlet instead (and others who love them, obviously). They're very special characters to me, I can't express just how many things I have written and drawn to do with them, and I refuse to give them up.

(another addition, regarding the apparent 'alter egos' Alex apparently had: Possibly consider DID? I know a lot of people with DID will often mistake it for other things, including simply being gender non-conforming, when in actuality they really have alters that just identify differently. Not diagnosing, I don't know enough about him to make any real claims--it was just a thought.)

[arcadiabaytornado]

Do you think Nathan actually saw Jefferson as a father figure? Or was all that just BS?

I think he genuinely saw Jefferson as a Father figure, but I also don't believe Jefferson's influence is the ONLY reason he did what he did.

We're shown in BTS and LIS that Sean Prescott is a shitty Father. He's far too harsh and not willing to give his son the mental help he clearly needs. Nathan sees his Father's faults as clearly as the audience does, so it's not shocking that he would latch onto an older man who's telling him he has genuine "talent."

I also do believe that part of the reason why Nathan attacked Rachel and Chloe was to impress Jefferson. I think on a psychological level Nathan desperately needed/wanted a Father figures approval, and when he couldn't get it from Sean, he changed his route on the tracks.

But, you'll notice that I'm saying "part of the reason" instead of giving Nathan a free pass. I say that because I DO think Jefferson was his father figure, and I also DO think Jefferson was manipulating him, and I also DO think it mainly got as far as it did with the dark room because of Mark. However, for a guy who "didn't want to hurt anyone" he sure was developing his own MO.

The women Mark liked to kidnap were like Kate and Max. Women who were innocent and could be corrupted by the dark. If Nathan really was only doing the dark room thing for Mark's approval, he would be choosing victims that Mark approved of. But he wasn't. Nathan had his own type of victim that he preferred: Fiery women who had lost their innocence long ago. That's why he attacked Rachel and Chloe despite the fact that they don't fit Mark's MO. Because Nathan was partially doing it for himself. Mark says himself that was "In lust" with Rachel, and we can assume he was attracted to Chloe if they met at a bar and he invited her back to his room.

Nathan was choosing his own type of victims that he was attracted to. I can't see that and then say that Mark Jefferson is the only responsible for his actions. Nathan was a monster of his own right, but it is 100% true to say (in my opinion) that he looked up to Mark and Mark made him worse. I think it's one of the many nuanced subjects in LIS where it's like "Yeah. Mark was successfully using his "mentor" role to make Nathan worse, but, like, maybe a guy who uses "dykes" as a slur and uses the word "feminazi" and was making his own victim MO didn't ONLY hurt women because he was influenced to."

[saytrrose]

Carnival Kinger (Relationship) Headcanons!!

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Note: Warning you now, there is TW: Mentions of Dubcon, Manipulation, Physical Violence, and NSFW at the end.

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My first headcanon I will share here, visible for everyone. I believe a genuine relationship with Carnival Kinger would be HELL. It would be really toxic, and would not be good considering he displays symptoms of severe paranoid schizophrenia, bipolar syndrome, anxiety disorder, derealization, narcissistic personality disorder, and more all at once ON TOP of the fact he is an AI in this au and would not understand human emotions as easily as most. I would like to clarify that while I romanticize some of his actions in this it is purely fiction! Despite my lovely delusions I like to keep things as canon as I can and to how I assume things would be. Now enjoy :)

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SFW

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- A genuine relationship with Carnival Kinger would never leave you with an ounce of comfort. His personality is quite deranged and he does not have the best control over it, and nor do you.

- In order for this situation to likely even arise, you’d have to have been in the game for a long time and definitely finished Kingers level. If you managed to get that far, which as we’ve seen in the official comic; Caine has not yet visited Kingers room and Able stopped right before he reached that level, so it is quite the mystery. And considering the corruption that took place within the game, I think it is safe to say his level is not the same as before, similarly to the others.

- Carnival Kinger, as pre discussed with Mushy herself and also it just being rather point blank with all the AI, hates humans. He would; regardless of his mood, not hug you and his relationship with you would have to take a really long time to build.

- If ever does find himself feeling this weird fondness to you, he would immediately feel. frustrated. He can’t stand you, he doesn’t want to be near you, and even seeing you would make him aggressive. Which is confusing to you and the others, because as far as you were aware you had settled in quite nicely once and for all and you had even maintained a rather calm relationship with Kinger. Which by the way, is a truly remarkable achievement in itself.

- It’s similar to cuteness aggression. He craves your attention all of a sudden but he’s not built to handle this emotion and hasn’t felt this sort of way for a long time. Not since… her. So after grappling with the aggression of it all- Kinger probably tearing up stuff in his room and lashing out, breaking things- after you’ve successfully passed the stage avoiding being alone with him where he might rip your head off or get so tense he grabs you and tries to slam your head into the ground over and over and over, to the point you’re gone- it’s over, he doesn’t have to feel that way anymore, after you’ve somehow,,, SOMEHOW gotten past that stage, he’d go into a form of acceptance.

- He will likely think he sees you as a bestfriend. That is what Queenie was after all! His bestfriend, a good.. close friend. He can’t stand the thought of comparing you two but atleast he has come to terms with the fact that he likes you more than the others here now. More than any of the other AI even, and normally if he formed a favorite it would not be too much of an issue but the thing about this situation that stressed him out the most was that fact you were a human. You are the player, the very thing that he swore many times to himself he wanted to destroy. And yet, you have him in this predicament.

- Sprinkling a small showtime mention in here… Kingers first resort would be to call Butterfly. He had been dealing with all of this on his own and had been bottling it up. Caine and Pomni were a well known established couple- people know of their feelings better than they do themselves and it’s pretty obvious those two.. are together. That, and were very romantical, mostly on Caines part.

- Kinger knows of their relationship, and he was very disapproving at first as I’m sure all the AIs were. But he was definitely one of the worst. However, now that he had such unique feelings for a player of his own, he wanted advice, and who other than Pomni?

- I think upon hearing Kingers request, Pomni would be utterly shocked. Confused as well, who would’ve known of all the people this would happen to and of all the things he called her into his throne room for it’d be for… relationship advice? She had scrambled together a whole routine on her way down the hall to see him- a small little performance in her head to do last minute just to find out he wasn’t even interested in that from her.

- Carnival Pomni.. is also an AI. But she has learned more from Caine about humans and emotions than the others certainly have so she tries her best. She talks to him, and the best advice she’s really able to put forward is.. to just be honest? She’s nervous, and tries to be genuine. She tells him to just confront his person of interest and talk about it, as it’s better so that any unnecessary tension is cleared. She struggles a bit on the overall topic of romance, but atleast she’s able to get the idea into Kingers head that “Ah, alright. I’ll tell the player.”

- Oh boy. Getting into the confession, Kinger is.. well.. he can be good with words, he can communicate nicely, but that also depends heavily on his mindset. Handling a situation like this would absolutely have him jittery and stressed and clawing at his hands and wishing he could go back to stage one where he didn’t care- where he could get rid of you- but now it’s been too long and he doesn’t want to do that.. he doesn’t want to get rid of you entirely.

- You are called into his room, and let’s be honest. You likely are not aware of any of his new behavior as of the late. You are still in a fight or flight mode as you’ve had to be in due to his recent behavior. He has been aggressive, brushing you off, and acting very similarly to when you first arrived and you were not sure why. So of course, you do not know what to expect when you are called in front of him.

- I’m torn between how he confesses. He is a complex and unpredictable character so he could out right say it bluntly, or be vague and ramble on about what he’s been experiencing. Regardless, you have two choices.

- If you tell him no, I think he would stare at you silently, wide eyed and just.. watch you for a second. He’d watch you for an uncomfortably long amount of time, before maybe persisting. I don’t know if he’d take a no. Because a no doesn’t really get rid of his feelings. A no, specifically someone telling him no, is not something he particularly enjoys. He’d persist his feelings, repeating his words and I won’t lie, you’d be pretty uncomfortable.

- If you tell him yes, he act like the first part of if you tell him no. Stare a bit, before standing up and walking over to you. His mood would change drastically, for if you went along and confessed as well, then he would probably invade your space and pick you up and get really happy and excited. It would be another very overwhelming emotion for him to experience in a burst at once, which would make him squeeze you a bit.. tightly, but luckily he’d able to control himself.

- In conclusion, I think you’d end up saying yes, and pursuing the relationship whether through genuine feelings or a bit of pressure. That, or you’d sabotage your relationship with him. Kinger forgets things all the time- ALL the time. But a feeling like this is not something he would let slip his mind entirely. I’m trying to avoid out right saying he’d kill you, but it’s definitely an option that would cross his mind. How dare you say no. How dare you embarrass him. How dare you humiliate him. He’d be livid.

- Now, the relationship. Prepare to be met with the clingiest, and most insufferable man you’ve ever met. Yes, he loved your company before and preferred it over the others but now I hope you’re ready to deal with some obsessive behavior. “Where are you going?” “When are you coming back?” “What are doing with them?” “How long will you be gone?” “Where exactly will you be?” Shit like that.

- I think Carnival Kinger would try to mimic off of Pomni and Caines relationship at first. It’s the only real relationship he has to go off of anyway, a romantic one to be specific. Caine and Pomni are inseparable! So we should be too. They do anything and everything together! So we should too. They are touchy, and have a pretty openly affectionate relationship! So let’s do that too.

- It takes him a long time to feel comfortable discussing boundaries with you. His mindset is never in the right place, he’s not suited for this kind of relationship but his feelings will not waver and he’s already come to terms with it so you are staying with him. Now, he DOES listen to you, if he goes to grab you or nuzzle his head into your neck or anything at all, if you tell him not right now, or no, then he will at least listen and stop. But he might try again later, once there has been some time.

- Carnival Kinger is also touchy, he’s touch starved and I will stand by my headcanon that I think ALL the AI are touch starved. Whether you like physical affection or not, he certainly does so expect it to some extent.

- I feel like everyone would know about the relationship immediately, it’s not something that could stay hidden. It’s just suddenly you two are always nearby each other. I mention that, because I also think everyone would be well aware your relationship with him is either not perfect in the slightest or not really.. good for you. Either way, not a single one of them would utter a word. I’d imagine Jax might bite something at him, to tease or mock his behavior with you but after no one seemed to find him for a few days and he finally came back but refused to talk to anyone I don’t think anyone wanted to bring up the topic anymore.

- In conclusion for this part, it’s a toxic relationship. Kinger is not mentally well in the slightest and as much as I like to fantasize because I have the “I could fix him” mentality it is safe to say I could not. I still want him tho, I want him really bad. I need him carnally. And speaking of carnally…

—————

NSFW:

—————

- As silly as I feel and as fun as I had writing the drabbles below, I realistically think the AI would have low libidos. They are just simply not programmed for sexual purposes and as my horny hypersexual heart aches in this trying time, I will survive as I have a very strong urge to keep things in character. So atleast in his relationship you do not need to worry about this area! For the most part…

- Hes either vanilla or very kinky, and it changes like the weather. One thing that never changes though, is the fact he really likes to watch. Kinger is big on voyeurism and he doesn’t play into the stereotype of the kink where it’s non consensually watching someone- he’s not a creep despite being.. wacky in the head in various other ways. He just simply likes to watch you do all the work, for you to listen to him and do whatever he wants, because it’s far more entertaining to him.

- Because of this, he’s also very big on positions where you are facing him because he wants to look at you, and scan your face for a reaction it of anything he tries to do. Oh, and eye contact, which (FUCK I’m not good at hahAA)

- He is probably an experimentalist, and likes to incorporate games into when you two have sex. He doesn’t like things to get stale, as the point of it all is he wants to be amused and the same thing over and over is never fun.

- Because his mood switches often, it’s hard to really know what you’re about to get into. You could be expected to do all the work, climb on top of him and do all movement- or you could be expected to do utterly nothing but let him do what he feels like. It’s… quite the coin toss.

- He’s more fixated on his own pleasure, but that’s not meant in the sense of prep. He would never intentionally try to hurt you, he is just messy and rushed with foreplay, often far too impatient.

- Okay let’s be honest.. Carnival Kinger, despite his mood is ALWAYS impatient, so don’t be surprised if as soon as you lay down on a mattress he’s already tugging your pants off.

- He doesn’t rush the experience, of course not- not when he wants to have that sort of fun and amusement and is actually horny in the moment. He just wants to get it started and going.

- To sum it up, he thinks foreplay and prep is quite the hassle and he’s a giant piss baby, so oral and face fucking is not uncommon…

- He is just too fucking impatient to wait to get his dick wet ❗️☠️

- There are times though where he is more considerate.. if he’s in a good mood he might be more playful. Instead of wanting to let off some steam- he’ll actually play around with toys.

- The only time he uses toys if he’s implementing them into a game, because again, as much as I love him we all know Carnival Kinger is a huge egotistical jackass who just wants to see your reaction and watch you squirm and writhe by his own actions.

- Games.. speaking of those, they don’t just apply between you two privately. He will make you wear vibrating underwear for the pure reasoning of he thinks it’s funny, and then shove you out his door and tinker with the remote whenever anyone else decides to come up for a quick hello. That, or maybe he will edge you until you’re literally on the verge of tears, begging him to let you cum and he’ll tease and taunt you until he gets bored.

- And you can’t even get upset at him either, not properly. God forbid YOU get upset with HIM. His mood will switch from one to two things. He can be really teasing and silly, to shutting down emotion wise- just cranking the power up on the vibrator and leaving you there without a way for you to turn it off. Or, he get so emotional he starts to cry, and it makes you look overdramatic.

- And he might accept the apology. You’re lucky if he even considers it, but you’re even luckier if he simply just forgets the entire ordeal all together.

- But when this happens, he will still be very upset with you. You ruined his mood. You ruined his game. He’s pissed. He doesn’t care about you or how you feel anymore because you messed it all up so he will grab you and drag you back to his room and throw you on the floor or on a table or wherever he takes you and what he does next I’ll just leave up to your own imagination. Again, he would NEVER resort to noncon. If you tell him no, then he’ll just leave you but he will be very frustrated with you for a good while. The likely scenario to happen here is he neglects you a few days as a form of punishment but if you ask me, you could use the vacation.

- Like I said, he cares more about his own feelings than you but he does have his limits. Nothing non con, I clarify that again but things can get pretty dub con because he gets mixed up in his emotions very easily.

- You never know what to expect. He could get frustrated and scream and yell at you and then the moment you get upset he will talk sweet, try to hold you and brush your hair out of your face and hold you in his hands and tell you it’s okay- The worst part of him is how unpredictable he is, and you will never know what to prepare for.

[anonymous-eggy]

your leander analysis was soooo spot on !! it's the first one that made sense to me !! i was always like ?? why would he try to mess with you ?? it just didn't make sense to me ?? you're so big brain

exactlyyyy!

i think my point didnt really get across because i said it in a very dramatic manner, but the point is there.

at the end of the day, Leander wants to manipulate you into trusting him. for what reason? we don't know yet. To take down the senobium? for selfish reasons? both?

no matter the reason, he's cunning and manipulative. he's not prone to outbursts and immediate revenge from what we've seen in the demo. he didn't become the trusted and adored leader of a huge gang by having childish outbursts and taking his frustration out on others for not trusting him or not wanting to be around him. he's like a wolf. he will play the long game if he really has to. if it becomes a game of stamina, he'll keep chasing you until you dont want to or cant run anywhere but into his arms. into his maw of fangs that he's conditioned you to believe is home so he can finally snap his jaw shut on you.

He is the safehouse, the leader. everyone follows him eventually. he just likes to make you feel like it was your choice all along and not something he was steering you towards since the very beginning.

this is literally what makes him such an attractive character. we know in the back of our minds (whether or not we realize it) that this is what he's doing. its so bad, but it so good at the same time. he has secrets and depth to his character and we want to know them.

honestly, if anything, he grabbed mc's hand when they choose to hesitate out of desperation to prove he can handle it and gain that huge leap of trust in Mc.

which caused mc a moment of panic and surprise, thus causing their curse to flare up. the same way i assume mhin's curse would flare up to protect them. this flare up was more than what leander had planned for, so he has a moment where he has to bat away the curse with whatever stupid powerful magic he's gotten ahold of.

once again, he wants you to trust him. this is obviously a bad situation where there's only two believable and sucky ways to play it off. the truth, or a prank. so he has to pick the lesser of two bad choices and play it off like he was just messing around. like it was just jokes and everything was fine all along!!! i think theres a small crack in his facade when he says something along the lines of Mc's curse being some serious stuff he's never seen before. this is a true statement buried in false ones. its easy to breeze over. he's successfully fooled you and won if he can get you to believe he was genuinely just fucking with you.

but yeah, sure Mc could have gotten pissed with him, but isnt a moment of Mc being pissed at a joke better than them not trusting him with their curse? the trust broken from a prank is MUCH easier to repair than trust broken from a curse that almost slipped through his magical protections.

Leander wants Mc alive, safe, and trusting him COMPLETELY. He (i assume unknowingly) hints at this anytime he talks about how he shouldn't have let you leave his side. he is that one "the illusion of choice" meme.

My ending statement will be this: i am OBSESSED with characters that have a true personality hidden under a different one. the little phrases that slip out and give insight into the truth are my JAM. characters that dangle a shiny charming personality like an angler fish. maybe its because of my trauma, but we dont have to talk about that.

[nightcolorz]

For the ask game: ❤️💚💙

YAYY thank u sm for the ask! these questions r so fun. I’m going off of the book fandom btw

❤: Which character do you think is the most egregiously mischaracterized by the fandom?

Louis <3 I think this is an affect of how likable and overtly sympathetic he is in the amc show but I've seen people getting genuinely offended over Louis being described in fandom (and by Anne rice herself) as a manipulative cold hearted ass who uses his perceived vulnerability and gentleness to distract from the fact that he is just as cruel if not crueler then the other vampires. Like Louis does nottt have strong morals or high empathy lmao. Book Louis weaponizes his privilege like a white woman crying to self victimize into making the other vampires look worse them him 😭 . He refuses to kill humans for a while not bcus it hurts him to take life (he actually takes more pleasure in it then most), he refuses bcus he has catholic brain the way a christians who say "how do atheists have morals without god?" do, misunderstanding that most people actually care about other people and dont need an existential threat to encourage them not to hurt others.

His moral compass is self centered and based in up keeping the appearance of self restraint and monk style lack of enjoying himself, not empathy. If a vampire killed u would u feel better if u knew he cried over how much he got off on it then flaunted his suffering over how little he indulged so that everyone knew how piosis he was 😭.

He is way worse when it comes to how he treats his victims then Armand who intentionally seeks out victims who r asking to die or Lestat who tries the vigilante approach. Louis kills innocents and he thinks it makes him better cuz he only does it sometimes and he feels really really bad about himself afterwards. As akasha said (paraphrased) he's the most predatory of them all.

To specify I love book Louis SOOOO much I love how shitty he is that's why it makes me sad when people mischaracterize him as sincere and get gen mad when ppl characterize him how he is in canon (a lying selfish bitch bless his heart). Like ik amc Louis at this point in canon is unambiguously in the right but he isn't like an accurate reflection of how he is in the books 😭 it's not like amc did what anne rice was trying to do more successfully, they just nulled what anne rice was doing in favor of a more likable protagonist. Which is fine, but like, there's no crime in preferring evil to the core horrible asshole Louis of the books.

💚: What does everyone else get wrong about your favorite character?

I think the common fandom perception of Armand as the crazy unhinged "omg I can't believe he actually did that in the books??" sadistic maniac villain guy is funny but not really accurate. Armand explicitly not only tries to avoid violence but dislikes it and finds it hard to comprehend why someone would seek out violence and conflict.

The reason he is always doing fucked up shit isn't out of a lestat-esc desire to cause chaos, it's bcus his highly strung ptsd brain has him convinced that the world is a battle ground and he must always be defending himself and acting out in violence.

Since acting out in violence is a reaction hes been taught throughout his life to be standard and necessary, as violence is something so normalized to him he considers it more of a tedious chore then a last resort measure, he usually reacts to conflict in ways that are objectively extreme to anyone who isn't thinking from his perspective. In qotd he even asks Daniel why men choose to fight in wars, explaining that he doesn't understand the draw of violence (bcus he's not a man) and he can't comprehend the supposed thrill of it.

Then he says this in pl to Gregory

💙: Which character is not as hot as everyone else seems to think they are?

i was going to say Marius but I figure that's too obvious since everyone at this point knows I don't like Marius 😭 so here's an even hotter take,,,,, Lestat ‼️

Only to a degree, I think Lestat is hot and deserves the hype, but i also think he's hot in a different way then a chunk of the fandom does. Based on his book description he's kind of wonky looking, mouth too big for his face, vaguely unnerving shallow pale skin, starved 1700s peasant build but also kind of buff in the unhealthy "i dont eat regularly but I'm strong enough to carry a wolf for miles on my back" sense, weirdly small fucking feet. He def has creepy ass florescent blue doll eyes too. my point is I think when drooling over Lestat the fandom tends to forget this wonkiness in favor of blonde bombshell, Sam Reid chizzled jawline and abs, or conventionally beautiful anime twink, when they should be appreciating lestat in all his weird as shit glory.

[chickenkurage]

CHAOTET 7 !!! AAAHAHHSJ CALLED IT HES JUST FAKING IT

Goodness!!!!!!! He wants their company so bad hes willing to act like they successfully erased his memory but no one really suspected that hes aware?? Except slate???

Wow they always kept underestimating him in some way even before the events in arc 3 the fact that it took him getting kidnapped, dehumanized, and tortured to becoming just a weapon for them to care about him. Its genuinely saddening. i hope Alan (and everyone who was wronged by That Guy) gets his just revenge against him

Chapter 7, Alan is a faker! What a manipulative conniving dictator! Did you give in?

Okay, I'm just kidding, but seriously, Alan pretending the memory wiper worked? shakes head. It’s wild how he’s willing to act like everything is fine just to keep them around. I can’t deal with this guy! And you’ve got a point— and Alan having to go through some crazy shit just for them to feel sorry for him. Like, where’s the logic in that? But I guess they have their own messed-up views on him, and that got in the way of everything.

It’s insane that no one really noticed—wait, scratch that. We know they never cared to notice because they wanted a clean slate with Alan, acting like nothing ever happened. So, if Alan acts a bit off, they’re just going to say it’s normal. And somehow, he’s totally taking advantage of it. They wanted everything to be “normal” so badly, it’s kinda funny.

And can you believe it? If I were Alan, I’d be crashing out. Slate (who’s supposed to be the idiot, right? I mean, he literally drew Alan on a piece of white paper, LOL) could tell Alan was faking it. If I were Alan, I’d just lose it right there! We all know he was about to go after Slate! Thank goodness for you, Agent, for saving our poor Slatey boy!

Alan and Slate, go find freaking Halo and work together please - S

[holygroundgone]

AND WHEN IT COMES TO CHU WANNING

His mental illness is very much a big part of his character!

His strong moral convictions and stoicism and asceticism are only compounded by his strong belief that he's an inherently insufficient person, that he's too stiff and harsh and ugly to be liked by other people.

You can point at his disciples and Xue Zhengyong and say that belief is misplaced, but is it really? His perception of the world and the way it reacts to him is incurably pessimistic, yes, but it's true that people avoid him. Chu Wanning's disciples might genuinely like him but all three have their reasons for avoiding him or acting aloof with him.

It isn't enough to break past his existing convictions. He is not going to act in a way not backed up by his own perception of how the world is and how it reacts to him.

If he believes he is unlovable and too old and ugly why on earth would he ever open up in the slightest about his feelings for Mo Ran? His sense of propriety as a shizun and in general is very strong. He wants to do things the right way because he feels like because it's himself, if he doesn't do it the right way it will be unforgivable.

His incredibly low self esteem is something he has come to terms with in his life and has accepted as a matter of course.

There's no point in apologizing or making excuses for himself when it'll only make him look like a hypocrite when he continues to act in the only way he has ever learned to be. There's no point in softening himself if it'll only result in him being thrown away. He's lived this way so long, wouldn't he look insane to change now? And if he did, what would it reveal about him to other people?

I also see a lot of people castigating Chu Wanning for his attachment to a young Mo Ran which I feel is unfair given:

1. He actively distances himself from Mo Ran and does his best to avoid showing him favor because of his infatuation (which ironically causes a lot of the mishaps in the book but i would say he tries to act responsibly in regards to this) and successfully shows no signs of this attachment that anyone and especially Mo Ran can recognize

2. He's aware that he's like this because Mo Ran is from his perspective the first person who chose him for him, is unyieldingly kind and affectionate despite Chu Wanning's instinctive hedgehog spikes. He's aware that it's his own pathetic failing for being such a lonely person.

3. It's explicitly stated that he never wanted anything to come of it, he never actually rationally wanted to be with Mo Ran beyond what his heart impulsively yearned for which he constantly got upset with himself for

The way that he punishes Mo Ran and uses physical violence on him especially impulsively when triggered by anger at Mo Ran's indecency or by his own jealousy is awful, a marked character flaw, but I think it's somewhat understandable when you consider the only example he had for a shizun in his life.

Huaizui is shown at the end of the memory scroll (and i would consider Huaizui's memory scroll to be incredibly (likely unconsciously) emotionally manipulative on his part, constructed in a very specific way that reveals Huaizui's flawed perspective) to react with impulsive anger and violence to Chu Wanning's disobedience. I really have to doubt that it was the first time he reacted in such a way.

I think through reverse engineering there have to be some of Chu Wanning's character flaws that must've come from Huaizui's upbringing- impulsive violence, the uselessness of apologies and excuses, hiding himself, an inability to do chores and basic self-care

Huaizui's few pieces of memories of a young Chu Wanning are interesting- in them Chu Wanning acts like a 'completely normal' and sweet child, but the Chu Wanning we know is naturally fussy, extremely stubborn with strong convictions and picky. In other words, he is autistic. But the child Chu Wanning in these memories shows very little sign of these traits. Did he change completely after what Huaizui put him through at the end there? Was every moment they shared exactly like those sweet and easy moments in the memories?

I really doubt it.

I think those memories were Huaizui's favorite moments with his undeserved disciple. His less favorite moments are easy to imagine, and so are his reactions to them. Chu Wanning was someone he always thought of with a dehumanizing and almost possessive sense of mind- "this piece of wood that I carved for the sake of absolving my sins". Any guilt he feels in thinking of a child in this way was clearly deserved and equally clearly not enough to stop him from locking him up in a cave and telling him to carve out his core.

Chu Wanning's self-dehumanization had to have come from somewhere, and I don't think it only started there at the end of their relationship.

Impulsive violence in reaction to disobedience is what Chu Wanning learns from a young age. And even then after whipping Mo Ran for plucking Madam Wang's rare flower he still questions himself and is questioning what he's done.

I do think that it's a flaw Chu Wanning still needs to learn and grow out of given that in postcanon after two years of living together he still whips Taxian-Jun- something the man is clearly terrified of.

In general I think ranwan have a lot to grow and develop from postcanon before they can be a genuinely healthy couple but given that from the bottom of their hearts they want the best for each other and for the other to be happy at any cost to their own person... I think they are going to make it.

[lakesbian]

here’s a question, do you think Blake’s responses to Rose would be fundamentally different if Rose was a guy? cause like- there’s Absolutely misogyny to it, as is, but I always thought Blake would’ve reacted like a cat being shoved in a bath to anyone trying to “tell him what to do” (quote unquote).

genuinely could not keep reading pact until i blake misogyny posted because he's sooo bad. he's literally worse than brian. like he's out here making brian look like a feminist. the thing that really sucks about Blake Misogyny is like.

brian will espouse misogynistic gender essentialist viewpoints he believes to be The Natural State Of The World, but in the context of his social environment, it's sort of just him beating himself against a brick wall. if it doesn't successfully alter his social environment to his preferences--which it never does--he'll get crotchety about it, but he's really not manipulative or vitriolic about it. it has 0 impact on the behavior of his female teammates, and he ultimately has to live with that. sure, in a different circumstance he might be able to socially steamroll over women, but as-is all he's doing is giving himself a concussion.

blake, on the other hand, is misogynist with plausible deniability. which is how vast portions of misogynistic behavior presents itself! obviously men believe (& frequently outright say) the things brian says, but they also have consistent interactions w/ women they have material power over where they demean, exert control over, and expect the women to cater to them--all while never directly bringing gender up and thus leaving them with enough plausible deniability that someone can go "well, he might respond the same way if she was a man, right?"

the answer to that question doesn't matter--even though it's very plausible that rose would be afforded far more respect if she was a man, it's insidiously impossible to prove it (which is part of the point of the behavior!), and either way proving it is irrelevant to our ability to point out the ways in which blake's interactions with her are already fundamentally misogynist.

as i've already mentioned, he does a lot of expecting her to "compromise" where "compromise" just means "you do what i want and i put up with the agonizing ordeal of knowing that you're not 100% happy about it," and he's also really prone to putting the burden on her to "communicate" while being fundamentally hostile to sentiment which even remotely infringes on his utter control over a situation (& subsequently over both of their survival). not to MENTION how gendered their division of labor is. you know how, 4 example, men are the ones supposed to know how to fix a car/drive (& are subsequently given the power of freedom of independent movement) whereas women are the ones supposed to do, 4 example, the laundry (confers no power, is labor which consistently services the man in the household)? similarly, rose is the one who does consistent domestic labor--i.e reading/researching/memorizing information to support blake with (thus consistently lowering his workload without having influential power over his behavior)--whereas blake holds power over infrequent & power-conferring tasks like deciding what they're buying* or calling all of the shots in a social interaction.

(*while mundane and laborious financial decisions are usually the woman's responsibility, like what to buy for dinner each week, the infrequent & high-stakes circumstance of purchasing survival supplies mean that blake is in fact the one holding power by being responsible for determining what weapons/etc to buy.)

also, to circle back to the topic of blake's expectations regarding "communication" for a second, i think this post is an exceedingly good explanation of exactly how that little dynamic works between them. hint: it's also him being misogynist. (yes, that post is mandatory reading for this post.)

all of these points culminate in this awful little exemplifying example of his behavior here in 2.1:

“Don’t worry about me if you’re not going to worry about yourself,” Rose said.  “You look as tired as I feel, and since you’re the one making the big decisions, like when to go out and-” “Woah,” I said.  “Woah, woah.  You’re talking about this?” “About going out with Laird.” “I thought we weren’t fighting.” I could see her expression change.  Barely restrained frustration, slowly but surely being covered up, hidden behind a mask.  “We’re not.  Nevermind.  I got carried away.  I’ll meet you downstairs in a bit, and then we’ll go?” A big part of me wanted to argue.  To press the issue.  To air grievances and get things on a more even keel.  To convince her that I didn’t want her as a slave or a servant. Except we had more pressing matters.  Better to find a way to show it to her rather than tell her. “Sure,” I said.

he's:

dramatically interpreting rose mentioning that he's been the one to make big decisions thus far as "fighting," manipulatively smothering both her ability to acknowledge their social dynamics + division of labor & her ability to even approach critiquing his decisionmaking--because how can she criticize him, when even mentioning a circumstance that turned out badly, with zero focus on his errors, results in him treating her as if she's being cruel?

again internally focusing on the idea of "communicating" ("airing grievances/getting on a more even keel"), but outright stating that the intended outcome of the "communication" he wants to have is "to convince her that he didn't want her as a slave or a servant"--in other words, he's viewing her feelings as something inaccurate that need to be corrected and brought in line with his viewpoints vs. as possible indicators that he needs to alter his mindset or behavior

sure, he purchases the bike mirrors as part of his attempt to "show it to her," but without self-awareness regarding how he's treating her, it will ultimately just be an attempt to "convince her" vs to genuinely address her concerns. i actually find it hard to believe that she was smiling about the bike mirrors when he was shopping for them--i don't think she would have any reason to read it as a genuine shift in his mindset & intentions. i'd be willing to guess that she had something else going on over there she was smiling about and he coincidentally caught her at the right moment to misinterpret it as being about bike mirrors.

in conclusion: "damages 2.1" more like. Damaging your relationship with rose thorburn by being a bitch idiot misogynist

[sweetblossoms]

saw your post abt rapunzel manipulating tim in their convo and god hard agree it Is concerning that so many ppl didn't see it. also crazy to me that ppl are mad at tim and defending rapunzel, saying that they would have taken the book too because tim was being rude etc. to me it seemed that both tim the character and ally the player Wanted to believe that rapunzel wasn't part of the plan and was good but just kind of strange, and both are successfully fooled. tim absolutely fumbles the interaction and ally could have played things better, but rapunzel was so clearly in charge of the conversation, leading him into saying worse and worse things and putting his foot in his mouth while tim was genuinely trying to be nice. tim is awkward and blunt and eccentric with Everyone, it's weird that ppl are saying he was being singularly rude to her or patronizing her or that he deserved to get the book taken. that interaction was clumsy as hell and so many words could have been chosen better but tim so clearly was trying so hard to fix his initial fuck up and be friendly w her in the same weird way he talks to everyone. I don't see how ppl came out of that scene on her side even if tim was a little rude and unfortunate w his word choice, and it's concerning to see ppl being like "ha take that stupid old man!!" abt the book being taken + in defense of a character we met an episode and a half ago and who we have been told outright is an expert at deceiving people. the princesses are so so interesting as characters and the morals going on are complex and that's a whole different conversation, but I feel like no matter whether you love rapunzel or not, ppl should be able to recognize that she was manipulating tim in that moment and taking advantage of his trusting disposition. not trying to start discourse in your ask box ofc!!! I've just seen No One Else express discomfort w rapunzel in that scene

anon this ask has been living in my head rent free since you sent it, i've been stewing over how to respond because y e s. for context, check out this post to save discourse on main (this is about to be a long one of fan critic analysis, get your popcorn and settle in if you wanna read, this is the longest post i've ever made), im gonna put my thoughts and response under a read more, sososo many spoilers under the cut read at your own risk

These were all in the replies and tags and I want to reply to all of them bc they're all worthy of being talked about bc i feel like the majority of the fandom is almost scared to critique?? So like let's talk about it since nobody else seems to be taking this approach from what I can tell (thank you to you anon for being on my side as well as the rest of you who are screaming with me) I will begin by saying that my original post is not critiquing ally the player, or any of the other players. i understand that they were in that dome, filming a session of dungeons and dragons, and improv acting and roleplaying for many hours on end with back to back episodes. i kind of get ally and the rest of the table maybe just wanting to "hope for the best", especially ally as they are quite a "hope for the good in others" type of person. it's frustrating from a viewer perspective sure, but i totally dont blame anyone ever for making a "wrong" or "non-optimal" choice while playing a ttrpg, they just have the misfortune of being filmed while doing so. i myself have made tons of bag fumbles while playing dnd, even when i thought everything through ten times over. so anything i have said or will say forward isn't to put any shouldering on to the people playing these silly storybook characters, like, i Get It

What i do want to critique is the fan response, which is the more worrying one!!! like i said in my original post, i was surprised by my d20 watch buddy having a similar response to ally. the total "oh, maybe she's just quirky bc of the self isolation, maybe she's autism rep" approach. my friend, love her to death, is also one of those "sees the best in others and hope everyone is always aiming to be their best selves" type of person, very similar to ally. i came online after that episode expecting everybody on the fanbase level to be screaming with me in a "i told you so!!" way

instead. i came online and saw people just on the attack and the defense in absolutely skewed ways!! out of NOWHERE, all these fans have come on to post about how "tim was patronizing her, and thats why she stole the book" "wow i would have hated being called girly and honey as well" "wow these conversations really didnt go their way why was tim so mean to her :(" or the opposite of "rapunzel is the evilest person to ever exist bc xyz these princesses are evil villains" or "we need to protect these princesses bc they just didnt know any better uwu"

i feel like, on a fan level, me and you anon (+all these lovely folks in the notes of that post) were the only ones screaming "hold on, that is literally not the same media i just watched"

i've seen before a lot of people be like "wow, media literacy is at an all time low" and i never really understood that until i saw the reactions after that episode. as a fan or viewer watching any media, we have the privilege of seeing more about the media than the people who are creating it. that's the best joy of being a viewer, we get to sit back and spot those foreshadowing moments and bite our nails in suspense when the music goes creepy and see the artwork and overall, we have the privilege of catching vibes that maybe those acting in it do not. this leads to those bonding moments of "i told you so" "wow im biting my nails and pacing" "oh they're gonna REGRET that". and, an "oh my god no no no do not hug her she wants to take your book god now she's feeling you up with her hair she's looking for the book ROLL INITIATIVE!!!!". it leads to glorious moments of ~dramatic irony~, a literary term for literally when something is happening in a story and the readers can catch it, but the protagonist probably didnt bc they're not seeing the full picture. While watching, from my perspective, yeah it was frustrating to watch the player bag fumble turn after turn, but it's a game of dnd, they film so many back to back, they don't get the same experience as us. however.

brennan did a great job at dropping the foreshadowing, to the point of not even so much subtly foreshadowing, he DIRECTLY TOLD THEM rapunzel was a liar and uses her words as knives. like someone pointed out, the players even PAID for that information, with the golden bridle. by the time they met these princesses, they probably knew the most about rapunzel's true nature over all the other princesses, that she uses her charisma to her advantage. the players made their choice to do the diplomatic route, to split up and chat. ally did the right thing for picking rapunzel with tim's 19 charisma stat, it would have been charisma against charisma, and an even playing field for someone they have been explicitly told is a master of words and deceit.

as fans, we've seen these episodes edited and put back to back. clues are lined up in a row. was it frustrating to see ally playing tim in a naïve way? sure. but tim's been pretty naïve this whole time, so you could stack it up to a character choice. what's more frustrating is seeing the responses of viewers being blindsided by the book thieving and chalking it all up to "evil vs good" and rapunzel's choice shaking them to their cores.

by this point in the story, by the time you get to that episode, rapunzel already gave enough bad vibes with the talk of her charismatic deceits and with her hair everywhere spying on them. maybe that last one wasn't explicitly stated, but it was heavily implied to the point of gerard writing the plans on a note instead of wanting them said out loud by elody, a scene that happened way before tim's. by the time we see rapunzel get to the kitchen, she is INSTANTLY catty. someone described her on the post as "eldritch regina george" and. yes. exactly. eldritch regina george. from our privileged spot as a viewer, rapunzel comes in, puts on the fake smile, puts on her fake tone, and says "what are you doing in here? :)". she was already ready to fight timothy. that first sentence was hostile. she was OFFENDED and checking on tim to make sure mother goose wasn't counter-spying. i honestly didnt think that would have to have been explicitly stated, she was in attack mode and plastered the fake smile for a show so that she had the upperhand in the conversation that was about to happen. this is something that fans should have at least caught on to right off the bat, we've been explicitly told that she is fake more than she is honest for the sake of being a "performative person"

the conversation happens, and she starts becoming more verbally hostile. "i dont know, what SHOULD we do hehe. it's ruined now :)" "no use in crying over spilt milk *pours milk with hair on the floor with a smile* oh no :)" "...or if it was on purpose :/ :)" "why dont you go get a mop :)" "i chose to be charming :)"

every sentence she replied with was carefully chosen. as viewers, we can watch brennan's face in full clarity of intimidation. we can have the knowledge that has been provided to not trust rapunzel as she is a charismatic spy who has words for knives. in my opinion, even without those clues before now, her show that she put on in the kitchen should have been enough as is to show that she is acting maliciously and with hostility. the smile is there as to not incite physical violence on tim's part bc then it would make TIM look like the bad guy if he attacked first. by the time she goes in for the hug. im sorry. but ally the player should have caught that, the whole table should have caught that, and-more importantly-the fans should have caught that. we all watched the same thing. we have all been told the same information. to purposefully ignore all of the red flags just to pull a "well tim was kind of mean and patronizing, and rapunzel doesnt have social skills from being locked in a tower, i forgive her, wow i didnt see that coming" is absolutely *batshit*

the lack of people catching on is what concerns me. i've met TONS of people growing up (sorry here, im all for women's wrongs, but mainly cis-girls tbh) who act like rapunzel does. from middle school and high school bullies/mean girls. mean girls at college. from parents or teachers or bosses. from normal adults in my life. they always have the same tone and inflections in the same places. the same faces with the wrinkled nose. the same sickly sweet smile. brennan played rapunzel, a known manipulator, perfectly. to a T. he embodied it fully. people JUST LIKE RAPUNZEL walk amongst us every day. i can guarantee you that even these fans that didnt catch it have met people like rapunzel in their own lives.

rapunzel is a character yes, but she is a character that mimics a masterclass manipulator. she IS the mean girl, the regina george. it leaked out of her every word, tone, and inflection. every single thing told about her and shown was, in no world, some "uwu the sweet bean was locked in a tower and doesnt have social skills". that was her origin, her start point. just like sleeping beauty locked in a castle, snow locked in her coffin. rapunzel directly says "i chose to be charming. :)." she had her origin of no social skills, her sad origin of being locked in isolation in her tower, and said "this is my greatest flaw, so i am going to dedicate my life to improving this skill bc it's what stopping me from achieving my goals." she trained her social skills to be good. too good. so good that she hopes nobody will catch her sweet charming self in the act of malicious intentions. this. was. directly. stated.

it worries me on a psychological level of the fans. yes it shows a lack of media literacy, something is frustrating on a fan-to-fan level. it shows a lack of ability of critical thinking. it shows a lack of ability to participate in dramatic irony, a necessary literary device to instill tension into a horror campaign. but also, and to what is probably my main point in this novel long hot take: it has real world implications. mean girls like rapunzel are a guarantee in life. i'm sorry, but it's true. maybe the person acts differently, maybe they aren't as obvious or more obvious. but these people walk amongst us. they use the same tone and same cadence to their words. these manipulators see what they want, and devise a way to convince the person into giving them what they want. rapunzel did not use the Charm Person spell, or the Friendship spell. She used. her words. like a normal human being. and by doing so, we as the fans were able to catch on and should have had a moment of "RUN GOOSE, RUN AWAY, NO DONT LET HER HUG YOU". but instead, a lot of people turn a blind eye to these manipulators in their lives. they pull a "aw but they have a tragic backstory, they're just confused and need love :/" "they cant be THAT bad..." they see a sweet little smile on the face and an upticked tone of voice, and go "well, they're playing nice, so now i have to play nice bc otherwise im the bad guy here" which!!! you do not!!

this is exactly how manipulators worm their ways in, this is what ALLOWS manipulation to work in its various forms. it's how people get trapped in abusive relationships. it's how people get scammed. on a personal end, i lived a narcissistic manipulator for a long time growing up, and it was exhausting. once you could put down the rose colored glasses and see right through the act, you notice how every inch of their mannerisms are performative. everything they say and do comes with the caveat of them wanting something from you and are trying to butter you up in the meantime. if you catch and call onto it, they IMMEDIATELY turn on you, they sneer and retreat to their next target who it will fool. the cycle continues, the next target is selected.

on a fan level, if we as fans cannot play into dramatic irony as a practice, if we cannot exit our seats of mind to catch on to those "eldritch regina george" quirks at the bud in a piece of fictional media where the puzzle has been handed on a silver platter, then there is a l o t more work to be done on 1) general media literacy 2) ANY fandom perception on media and 3) general awareness of how to spot and deal with manipulators in real life. if you can't catch on to it in a silly fictional ttrpg media, how do you expect to catch on to it in real life? how many of these same fans are trapped in manipulative relationships around them? how many more will they fall for bc of the "oh no but they have tragic backstory so it's forgiven uwu"? as fans, you cant sit there in the same breath saying that tim was condescending to rapunzel and then follow it up with not noticing what was ACTUALLY happening in real time. if you wanna say that rapunzel was ALLOWED to be a manipulator because of her origin, what other manipulators are you defending in your real life? how many of these manipulators continue their tricks BECAUSE they know naïve people exist and will fall for it? how many have been enabled in the same cycle bc it worked on one so it'll work on the next?

i wish i had a fun way to conclude this absolutely massive chunk of fandom critique gibberish, but i just dont. i wish i could find a more comprehensive way to scream about this, so take this post as me SCREAMING about this, anon my dm's are open if we wanna rant some more

[zhouxiangs]

(1/2) hi. So i have to talk about the delicious toxic relationship between Way and Babe that series has served us. ( let's remove Charlie out of equation for a while).

True that everyone says it's because of Way manipulation powers their real friendship turned toxic. But I feel even if we take out Way superpowers out of equation for a while, their friendship was always toxic. And very deliciously toxic.

Hear me out, it's because Way is depressive person who isolates himself leaving no room for anyone to reach out to him.

I'll get back to this point later, but before lets go to beginning when Way was in Tony house. After Pete left ,Tony must have gotten crueler and dumped all the abuse on Way, making sure to keep this only enigma in his full control. How did Tony ordered Way to go impregnate Babe? Surely it couldn't be a just one sentence order like' go get this man and bring me baby'. 🙄 We know Tony manipulates all his kids with love and emotions, until he loses it finally. So wouldn't Tony have constantly manipulated a teenager Way into that there's a special alpha who only belongs to Way and Way only and he should go get him if he wants happiness in his life. ( in ep 1 Alan advices Way to confess, Way answer seemed like he really believe Babe will eventually come back to the person to whom he really belongs). So doesn't that mean even Way feelings for Babe are manipulated and planted in his head from beginning?🤔 I have no idea. This is so fucked up. But I do believe Tony successfully made Way believe in all those years that if he wants to get out of this trap, Babe is the only key.

For now lets go with general consensus that Way does approaches Babe with a purpose, but he starts caring about Babe and Alan for real as the time goes. (Reminding you again that I have taken Way powers out of equation for a while bcz this character has too many layers for me to understand in one go. )

In those flashbacks it seemed Way and Babe were really happy together achieving their dreams. And they WERE happy. I believe while at some points Babe bared his past, his pain, his traumas, his dreams to his friend, Way listened to all of it and was always there for other. ( The motivation behind this bcz of mission or bcz he genuinely interested in babe already or bcz he's kind of person who listens. Maybe all,maybe none. Idk.) In ep 1 Way says if he doesn't know everything about Babe then who else. And it's TRUE. Way really knows very much about Babe bcz he has always paid attention to other's emotional needs and felt a connection with him while in process. And that's why he fell so deeply. ( bcz love is exactly that, when we feel connection with someone). No matter if it's friendship love, or romantic love or just affection.

But ..but, what about Babe? From those flashbacks i feel Babe also felt something for Way, in beginning, even for a while. How could that love starved, super sensory guy not notice how much someone was caring for him? But could he form a connection with other on deep level to say it's love? No, he couldn't. Because unlike Babe, Way is isolated, depressed person who finds it difficult to share what goes through his mind. Unlike Way, Babe doesn't really knows anything about Way because Way never really allows anyone to come close to his actual real thoughts and feelings.

Surely Babe must have tried in beginning to get closer to other on same level, to listen about Way past,his problems. But couldn't as Way pretends to be all okay. So maybe with time Babe came to conclusion subconsciously that Way has no same emotional needs or problems, that Way doesn't need same care from him. Without that connection, Babe felt no romantic spark was there in between them and put those feelings under friendship.

Way has his own huge baggage too. When Babe felt loved with Alan and Way cuz he was honest, Way himself was always ALONE even in company of Babe and Alan, as he was trapped in his own mind. Those precious moments which only meant happiness and familial love for Alan and Babe, in them sure Way could forget about his initial lies for some moments but the tinge of guilt always stayed there preventing him from feeling full happiness.

Way gave his all, constantly but never thought of taking or couldn't dare to. But he does needed help. A lot of it actually. And that's when relationships turns toxic bcz healthy relationships are about equal give and take. We saw it in series many times, whenever Way has some problem with other,he never confronts him directly about it, but he mopes in corner, alone. ( Way didn't tell Babe that he's feeling left out until Babe himself comes to find him in ep 6. Even in ep 7, after being ditched on dinner, he goes in corner and Babe comes to find him). I think those fights are normal occurrence for them, even before Charlie came, but they weren't in beginning but started some time after, the first sign of their falling apart friendship.

Way needed to be listened but couldn't say first and In the end, Babe is always left guessing other's thoughts and that starts to frustrates him with time. ( Because Babe is not good with guessing or seeing people beyond for what they are representing themselves as ). Way stars to feel exhausted and empty with time by just giving, considering he was also stalling Tony for 10 frigging years.

When Way constantly says if you have problem come to me, he might have been asking for help himself. And babe always replies with ' yeah,i know'. Not for once does Babe says if you have problem, you can also come to me. Like Babe was conditioned to always being the one to receive care from other. He stopped wondering or never wondered if vice versa could be possible too. In ep 1/2 when Way shows him rumors on phone, Babe just dismisses it saying Way is always the one who handles all matters beyond racing for him. Babe was too much used to Way always being there for him to look after his matters. Way obviously start to feel drained with this one sided care.

It started to get toxic, they start to fight more and Way conditioned himself to show his real thoughts even less, yada, yada. The communication between them failed more and gap widened.

But they both still held on to it, way too tightly that it was choking them. And I mean both. Because that's the only place from where they received whatever form of love.And this doomed friendship exploded with Charlie entry, when Babe felt he could get his emotional and sexual needs fulfilled at one place and stopped giving Way time. When in ep 6, Way says it's enough for you if I'm just by your side., he really meant it as he realised Babe doesn't care to stand by his side the same.

In ep 7 when Babe says to Alan after their fight that it's bcz of what Way said in past that he couldn't dare to love. (Sure Way said that but I thought main reason was until Charlie he couldn't get closer to anyone bcz all those alphas stink to him. 🤔. Plothole?? ) Hey, but a good sign of toxicity from Babe himself bitching about his best friend to another friend. And that Babe himself was getting fed up of this friendship where they couldn't understand each other anymore. but still held on. Why? Bcz it was easy, bcz guilt, bcz he still cared. Maybe all, maybe none.

Babe says it many times that Way is most important person in his life, his only friend whom he cares about a lot. He believes it But he couldn't reach out to Way, couldn't really help other, couldn't see him. Way thought he gave Babe everything he could ever need for other to love him back, but didn't give his real wounded self, didn't give other the chance to really connect, to help him, To form a real bond. Really deliciously toxic😌, I would say it's poisoned. If somehow Way blurted out his feelings to other before in 10 years and these two would have gotten in relationship, it would have been so suffocating that none of them could breathe.

Now, lets bring back Way powers. Actually I don't really have clear idea of how often, how much, since when and in what way did Way used his powers on Babe to manipulate him. Way powers ranges from making someone sleep, paralyze, commanding them to do exactly that to just planting ideas. If it was just for Tony mission , wouldn't it be easier to force Babe in beginning Or make other fall in love with him with his powers instead of torturing himself in this toxic relationship for a decade? ( another reason why I feel Tony sent him with the idea that Babe belongs to him. Yk, soulmate kinda thingy , I'm sorry I don't know much about omegaverse. And so why Way was waiting forever ) Yet he never crossed that line with other except planting ideas that he was always there for Babe. Until of course Charlie came. As his desperation grew and he became bolder.

Now I have many other questions too, why he was saying to Babe that no one would love us, it's better to be alone. If he wanted Babe to fall for him, how would this even work? Shouldn't the manipulation be like, look how much am I caring for you, no one can love you more than me, reminding other of his good deeds at every point? Like remember how Vegas used to say to Porsche that how he is better in this, better in that and different unlike Kinn who is too heartless and impulsive. Isn't that how a selfish manipulator mind works?

Now lets go back to how I said Way felt connection with Babe when Babe must have revealed his trauma to him. I'm sure Way couldn't felt more closer to anyone other than him after hearing those things. Did it gave him consolation like two prisoners in same cell? But unlike Way, Babe with time must have dared to get out of this cell and Way couldn't dare as Tony was still breathing on his neck behind the scenes, fearing loneliness so he held Babe closer. Also Way could see the cage that Tony has put over them that Babe couldn't and Way really believed he could keep Babe safe only by keeping him with himself. ( that makes me wonder What were the terms of Tony if Way failed in the task? Was Tony going to send some other enigma or was he going to kidnap Babe then force him and sell him? If Babe fell for some other alpha, wouldn't it be a clear sign Way failed?) Or Way felt he alone was trapped in his own trauma and Tony has conditioned him in believing Babe is the only key. Way couldn't use or hurt Babe cuz he really cared for him but also he couldn't let this key go away from himself cuz then he would felt there literally is no hope for him.

How exhausting it is to pretend to be okay and happy for 10 years in front of your family kinda friends ? Babe was the anchor he held on to as Tony showed him. Even surrounded by people all the time, he was still alone trapped in his thoughts and weaving the trap more and more day by day with guilt, lies, that there was no space left for anyone to come closer to real self. It was only until Pete who literally crawled in his mind to read him.

I still don't really know what exactly driven him to do things the way he did. He is too complicated, in addition to above mentioned points he could also be carried jealousy, possession, obsession etc, etc.

And what exactly did he aspire to want from Babe? Love? Freedom? A sense of belongingness? Help?

Way is a character with so so many layers on whom I still don't have a clear reading as most people here have only two reactions to him either they hate him or love his face. But Way is more than a pretty sad pathetic face with horrible character. His eyes always expresses his villainous deeds doesn't stems out of lust or bad reasons but of trauma and fear. That alone makes him a very unique villain than those one dimensional cartoonish villains, better than Tony and Winner.

Does that negate him from what he did to Babe? No. Not at all. What he did all those years and what he was trying to do in ep 9 is definitely horrible and fucked up shit. He betrayed his only friend of years in worst way possible, when he could have chosen differently. Babe doesn't deserve any of that shit.

But that's not the point, I'm talking about here. The point is how a genuine happy friendship of people stemming from same origin as we saw in those flashbacks turned so so toxic to reach at this ugly point and how beautifully it was portrayed, their fallout, their flashbacks.

I have only started this series a week ago, so I don't know what happened but i feel fandom has majorly divided itself in two groups of Charlie haters and Way haters. And it makes me sad when they carry biased views towards these characters, also because of novel spoilers when clearly series characters are more in depth. Idk, someone said it before but character or their dynamics are not meant to put in just two categories of hate or like by putting our moral compasses on it. They are meant to tell a story. Characters aren't always simple to understand but complex, interesting or uninteresting. And It's not fair to judge every single thing in this fiction by actual world logic because by that logic Dean and Winner are also tragic characters and right on their own because this competition was definitely never fair to them, and they deserve most sympathy. But that's not what series is about, we need to roll by what they portraying and understand why, instead of pushing our own judgements on this fictional omegaverse .

(2/2) And i wish people would stop judging with comments like how could people still like Way. Like come on, this is 2024. When I say I like Way, it doesn't mean i support real life SA. What kind of fcking logic is this?? it means the character is interesting to me. When he says things like I never thought of hurting my family after clearly hurting and betraying his friend, he makes me curious where the hell is he coming from to say things like this. He makes me curious why he never confessed in 10 years and instead resorted to condition his friend into being dependent on him. How fucked up he is in his head to cry after attempting to force himself on his friend ?

Way deserves more reactions than simple hate, and dismissing him of his complexity. Babe and Way ( and Charlie) deserve more than people blaming and defending them and praising their beauty.

Like please 😭look past their fixed ships, these characters have so much more story to say, their interrelationships are beautiful too. Do you people really wanna see just two boys kiss and just hea? No drama? That's boring!!! And i would say pit babe is the only bl to achieve this, showing bonding between characters outside of fixed pairs.

Similarly putting our own judgement on characters choices, like ' how Babe could even think of saying he could forgive Way one day after this all. I would never. ' it's annoying. We are not Babe. Instead why not be curious that why Babe said so? Babe himself is not a simple character but has his own complexities. Even after being betrayed by everyone he loves, he is still full of compassion and he opens his heart for love again and again.

Babe was grieving two closest things to his heart, his lover and his most important friendship. He was very alone, and sidelining his hurt by putting all energy on his revenge on Tony. The friend who always said come to me whenever something bothers you, That friendship whom he needs the most now, doesn't exist anymore. It's still unbelieving bcz few days before he had everything in the world. And then the said ex friend comes to apologises and asks if things could go back. Babe hopes for the same too, cuz he still can't believe he has nothing left now. Babe hopes, for things to go back too when he had Charlie and everything, and stop hurting so he says maybe one day, but not soon. No matter how much people hate it, Way was a very important person to Babe and 10 years of feelings doesn't disappear in one day and neither the hurt of betrayal from same person. It hurts too deep. His reaction might have been different if Charlie was alive. Of course their friendship is too broken to mend again, but hoping of different circumstances is another thing. And i also liked this reaction bcz it showed the hints of their toxic dependent relationship. They had already let go of it all but still, still after all this horrible betrayal, they still kinda hanging on. Bcz despite everything Babe believes or want to believe that not everything was a lie.

In ep 10, After losing Charlie, first place he goes to seek was Way, when naturally he would have barged in Tony house like before. But Babe was still hurting from that betrayal and he needed answers from Way. ( See how even this time Way was moping in corner and Babe has to come confront him first. It's nothing I just like the pattern. In ep 12, first time Way seeks other out to communicate and it wouldn't have happened if not for Pete.)

And compassion is a far thing but wishing death upon Way character is just too much. Isn't it better for him to stay alive, repent for the hurt he gave to others and heal himself too. Cuz u can't deny he clearly needs help.

Arghh. Thanku for entertaining my giant thesis. I was gonna talk about Babe and Way relationship but somehow ended up with Way character analysis. Their toxic relationship feels most compelling and really stands out to me. It's so rare to see such a well written relationship in bls. there's is lot more to unpack, and i was so in feels that I has to write something. I'll write thesis on Charlie some other day but he's perfect for Babe bcs with him Babe doesn't have to guess as Charlie is pretty straightforward with his needs and emotions ( I mean aside from initial lies and fake death he is honest and communicates, which makes it easy for Babe.). While Way emotional baggage was too much for Babe to handle. Since Pete volunteered himself so good luck to them, as he's the only one who can really reach out to him.

hi anon! thank you for sending this, sorry it took me a few days to reply and this isn't really a proper response (sorry about that), i was saving this in case way got the end that i feared and. well.

i really just wanted to say that i love your reading asdsa and share it bc some of us are coping with today's ep by rolling in waybabe tragedy (i'm some of us) and this is just perfect for that. for the record i don't think waybabe could have ever happened, they're sooo one-sided and painful and delicious to me <3

also about the times way used his power on babe and the not daring to love: to me it was clear that it was from the beginning something they both thought about themselves and what brought them close (something that way did tell babe twice? during the series once he started to make him stop loving charlie. lol as if he could.) and that stopping babe from loving someone was something new for way. i don't think there was anyone that was a thread before, alpha smell or not; i think babe fell in love with charlie because it was charlie.

Babe himself is not a simple character but has his own complexities. Even after being betrayed by everyone he loves, he is still full of compassion and he opens his heart for love again and again.

babe is my perfect angel baby full of love and forgiveness and i can't believe we got that twice in this ep, i love him so much.

[kissesforsatoru]

That’s gonna end up a shit show- Yandere bf manipulating you to think Yandere Baji thr worst- i can imagine this leads to you no longer talking to Baji or having any part of Baji

This will cause a pissy Baji- consideinf he dosent even know why your suddnly cold to him but it dosent help too that Yandere bf am smug when Baji sees you two and your leaning onto his arm all cozy bc that suppose to be Baji spot

One way he may directly now angerly ask you why your suddnly ghosting him or two he may go directly to the source- Yandere bf who affiliated with gang it’s gonna be a common ground thag there gonna be a fight especially Yandere bf smug remake sayinf “she just knows who truly looking out for her after all”

Yandere và Yandere fight begins but honestly it a fight to the death bc only one of them will be left breathing

- 🌑

oh yes, bring on darling ignoring baji after yan!boyfriend successfully manipulates them. baji would be so pissed he might full on just hit your boyfriend and demand what he did to you the next time he sees you. he might also assume the worst, like that you were punished or kidnapped, or something he would rather not think about, killed. and to ad insult to injury, your yan!boyfriend says something smug and snarky??? goodbye to your boyfriend because baji will kill him.

but if he runs into you first expect to be corned. he might drag you to an alleyway or his house and cage you between him and the wall so you can't run. and you can tell he's pissed just by looking at him--it makes you shiver in fear. but despite that, he leans his head against your shoulder and asks you why you're avoiding him and all his little feelings sort of just come out.

"i was so worried something happened to you."

“i don’t ever wanna lose you, little thing.”

"please don't ever avoid me again."

this sort of pure, genuine emotion towards you makes your resolve faulter and now you don't believe a single thing your yandere boyfriend said, because someone trying to ruin another persons life doesn't worry about them like baji does for you.

[holiciouspursuitofenvy]

It took me a really long fucking time to acknowledge why i can't handle boundaries/end up being manipulative as fuck to real and sometimes online people.

EVERYBODY FEELS LIKE I HAVE TO WALK ON EGGSHELLS WITH! I truly did not understand stand that consciously, i only ever chalked it up to social anxiety. No matter how many times i told myself i wish there was a class on how to talk to people and what people will judge you on.

I grew up with parents who would be gone from home long periods of time (due to their jobs bc we were poor and childhood divorce). And when they came home would either fight eachother or their children (me and my siblings). Belittling us for little things we did or want which oftentimes was extremely normal kid stuff. And because i was the youngest, i was an honorary child of the eldest teenage sister who obviously was a bad mother but also actively bullied me for years.

Not to mention parents who would constantly tell me don't trust anyone, everyone is judging you and out to get you. So they sheltered you home minimizing play time or hanging out with other kids. I actively remember being a kid and trying to set up healthy boundaries like "hey mom, it really hurta me when you yell at me for crying when i get shots or needles, I'm trying my best." And her going "fuck off, you're just sensitive and you need to get over it by now." Or my dad actively triggering me when he does his angry sound tell so i asked him to please do it less and he angrily calls me a child in a long drawn out paragraph and huffs away.

I was/sometimes still am stuck in a toxic cycle of needing to learn how to set up boundaries for myself and telling people, namely my family, to fuck off if they don't. I used to have a hero complex where i would help people at the expense of myself to often but then i said fuck that and now I've made my over defensiveness even more obvious.

But i also couldn't acknowledge this extends to EVERYTHING. In real life when someone says you did a bad thing suddenly it feels like a volcano of the most angry emotions stir inside of me BECAUSE I AM FURIOUS.

I'M FURIOUS that no one acknowledges how hard it was to walk on eggshells all the time. How I'd need to pat myself on the back every time i completed a social interaction successfully or comb through every detail of them to find something to improve on. I never felt i was progressing to normal but that i was stuck incompetent forever.

I get told a lot that I'm very mysterious and never tell anyone anything and this is why. I HAVE MAJOR TRUST ISSUES. This is where the hyper-independence, the closed offness, the combative nature against people i trust especially comes in. Why I'm always surprised people who don't see me everyday or run to me anytime the see me say I'm their friend. I'm sure i came off super cold when i asked them why but i was genuinely surprised. Because being teased, bullied, and dismissed by everyone close to me growing up fucked up my view of people and relationships.

I don't mean for any of this to come off as an excuse but as an explanation. And me trying to reach people who've gone through the same things i have but kept getting back into the cycle of needing to defend yourself by all means possible to people who just said "please stop, i don't like this," or any other variation of you have done something wrong. Especially if you went over the line online and someone said "hey thwt way too over familiar, don't talk to strangers like that." because yea STRANGERS ON THE INTERNET ARE NOT YOUR THERAPIST OR PUNCHING BAGS.

I really need people to understand this isn't from entitlement, it's subconscious mistrust in everyone you meet bc subconsciously i believed everyone was out for me. Someone i needed to defend against before or after they talk to me. No matter how nice and gentle it comes doesn't matter. Everyone has to be lying and think it's the biggest deal in the world actually or this is a greater sign of you being awful all along. Like everone did that to everyone elae. And if anyone just casually calls this narcissism I'm hitting you with a 2x4. Those posts never resonated with me. They felt dismissive for me personally.

I AM ALWAYS IN A PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE VICTORIAN ENGLAND TEA PARTY WITH A BAD REPUTATION. Or better yet I'm always walking on eggshells with people.

Coming from someone who knows they're mentally fucked up but not knowing exactly how for all your life but especially in the past 5+ years of not going to therapy except when it was closeby and free a couple times but never being truly open with them because you learned vulnerability equals dismissal and pain 99% of the time.

So yeah, i highly recommend looking back on your childhood and examining when you were dismissed or had your boundaries broken. Then work on active trust with people and be open to more people because not processing my trauma but trying to steamroll being a functional persom also fucked me up.