#and if you eradicate antisemitism worldwide- i mean some of us will still want to end the diaspora no?

[vamptastic]

I highly fucking dislike this post purely because literally everything in life is complicated and in particular the prospect of dissolving an existing state to create a new one is obviously Fucking Complicated. Maybe you find it uncomplicated morally, but that's not what the post actually implies. Make every country in the world safe for Jewish people- a noble goal, but most certainly not an uncomplicated one. And like- what is the implication? If antisemitism did not exist worldwide, then Israel would likely not have been formed, yeah. Would love it if that had happened. But it didn't, and eradicating antisemitism tomorrow would probably still not inspire the 7 million Jews living in Israel to move, you know? Like, unambiguously, the treatment of Palestinians by the Israel government has been reprehensible. It was entirely unnecessary. But a change in conditions, statehood, governing body, it doesn't actually move people to a different location, and right now there is a lot of bad blood between Israelis and Palestinians and both of them have nowhere else to go. I don't get how people can say things like this without thinking logistically about how you can get two groups of people to live in the same place without killing each other. I think equal rights and and equal standard of living is a damn good place to start, but the fact remains that the past 70 years happened. It's just kind of maddening- people will use South African as an example of major political upheaval caused by similar strife, and like, that's a good example and good place to start but the main difference is that South Africa was a British colony. British South Africans went back to fucking Britain and other parts of the UK. The Jewish people were up until the formation of Israel a stateless nation and I think it's understandable that we don't want to go back to the countries that expelled us repeatedly- but I don't think the Zionist project was a good or moral solution. It just feels like people can't discuss this without trying to ignore the Jewish part of the equation, when it's what actually makes this ~nuanced~ and ~complicated~. And it's unsurprising that those who think they have it all figured out possess no grasp on Jewish history.

[hazel2468]

I keep seeing people bitching about "uwu when I say 'from the river to the sea' people say I'm calling for geeenocide! They say I'm antisemitic!" and like.

Maybe. instead of clinging to a phrase that a bunch of white leftists have co-opted because they think it sounds nice. And digging your little immature heels in. You should LISTEN when people tell you that yes. The phrase's FUCKING ORIGIN was a call for the eradication of Jews from the area known as Israel and Palestine. That NO, you cannot divorce it from those roots. YES, it IS still used to mean that TO THIS DAMN DAY.

And look. Maybe you DON'T think that Israelis should all be killed and/or exiled from Israel and Palestine. Maybe you DON'T think that the genocide of an entire people is the solution. Maybe you DON'T hate Jews and want all of us dead. And if that's the case? Great!

But how the FUCK are we supposed to tell the difference when you are using the EXACT same phrase as countless people who DO want those things. People who DO hate Jews, who ARE supportive of organizations that want to commit violence, people who SUPPORT what happened on October 7th?

When people tell you "hey, this phrase means something else, it has ALWAYS come from those roots, and using it is NOT OKAY because it is STILL used as a rallying cry for violence against Israelis and Jews worldwide", the way to react? Is NOT to fucking double down and use it.

Because that? DOES make you an antisemite. And if I see you using that phrase? Then I MUST assume that at best, you do not know what it means and have SOMEHOW avoided the countless Jews and non-Jews I have seen talking about it, or at WORST you actively hate me and want me and every single one of my people dead.

And frankly? You are not worth that risk to interact with.

Stop saying it. There are SO many ways to support Palestine, the Palestinian people, and their fight for rights, that do not involve spouting genocidal, antisemitic rhetoric. it is NOT HARD.

But apparently, some of y'all are insistent on being racist.