#and i will always support palestine i will never support israels genocide or frame the death toll in palestine as less meaningful than

[giritina]

What's with tumblr commies and seeming to have no consistent world view on how colonized countries should act and just base it off of their attachment to the colonizing state. Like they just flatly justify the Hamas terror attack as freedom fighting without nuance or research but oppose Ukraine fighting against Russian invasion. They also justify the invasion via saying they have right wingers in their military while trying to ignore or attribute the right wing politics of hamas to the populace of palestine. Russia and Israel are both right-wing, nationalist, and imperialistic states, but they have this dream of Russia as a leftist state that they cling to?? They're happy to dehumanize Israelis bc honestly they don't care about jews and what has led to the state of Israel (which should be dismantled but these ppl genuinely are just happy to imagine the citizens of the state being mass murdered) but then cry about the Ukrainian war causing unnecessary bloodshed and how there should be peace. And again the Russian state is not fucking left wing at all but they are infatuated with an imaginary version of the USSR that did not commit any crimes against humanity and did not have hundreds and hundreds of years of imperialism under its belt . Idk just shows to me they don't really give a fuck about human life or the oppressed beyond using them as game pieces to play out the theory they read in books

[germiyahu]

"If you describe a horrific and detailed act of racism committed by an IDF soldier or a Kahanist or other anti Arab extremist (say Baruch Goldstein's massacre), you'll find that a huge majority of Jews condemn him, his philosophy, his actions, denounce him and consider him a poor practitioner of Judaism"

No they don't, that's the whole fucking point.

Whenever IDF soldiers kill Palestinians the only reaction from Israelis you would get is them bringing up how military service is mandatory in Israel so you can't be mad at the soldier, how this is an extremely complex two-sided "conflict" where both sides are equally wrong and equally victims, how everything is the fault of the entire government of Hamas and Bibi (but just Bibi, they will never hold anyone else in the government accountable) and gaslighting people into believing that this is an isolated incident that doesn't normally happen and that the Israeli committing the crime will actually face any type of justice.

And this assuming that they would even acknowledge a crime has been committed instead of calling it "blood libel" and using what happens as a segue to talk about anti-semitism even more.

So you clearly don't know any Jews because Baruch Goldstein is one of the least controversial figures in Jewish history to condemn. Like, he probably has defenders in Israel but they're definitely a pretty small minority, and you'd be very hard pressed to find any diaspora Jews who approve of his crimes.

And aside from that, because yes people do defend the IDF when they are presented with similarly horrific sounding stories... but look what happens, most of these stories turn out to be exaggerated or completely false to begin with! This isn't about starry-eyed Jewish supremacy vs Muslims just doing an oopsie and they had good reasons for it, this is about truth. That's the key element. It's a little ridiculous to whine that Jews won't full throatedly condemn bombing a hospital and killing 500 people when that turned out to be a lie!

Baruch Goldstein was a terrorist, he factually provably committed horrific crimes. Osama Bin Laden was also a terrorist, he factually provably orchestrated horrific crimes. If you ask the average Jew to defend the former, they'd be equally as uncomfortable as if you asked the average Muslim to defend the latter. There are always going to be braindead terrorism fanboys in both groups, duh. I'm talking about the average person.

And here you are, deciding that no, the average Jew is a savage devotee to terrorism and genocide, just like every other Jew Hater online. It's becoming a bit stale. See that last part in particular, this is about a deep envious rage you feel that Jewish people "get away" with doing/thinking/saying "The Bad Thing" and you feel a need to bring them down a peg. You frame a very real thing (like blood libel is not trivial and Jewish people do not actually talk about it frivolously), as a privilege, a cheat code. You're jealous because you probably belong to a demographic that can't "milk" it's own historic oppression and tragedy, so you feel that Jews shouldn't "get" to.

But this is the real world, where exaggerating the alleged crimes of Jews is demonstrably linked with an increase in antisemitic rhetoric (check), harassment of Jews and Jewish institutions (check), and even violence (they just thwarted a planned terrorist attack in Brooklyn, very much the last roadblock to a liberated Palestine).

Anyway my point was that if you zoom out to more and more abstract concepts, a greater percentage of both Jewish and Muslim populations will probably support them. And I think it's telling that "a Jewish state founded on war and large violent population transfers" has a higher moral burden on it than "a Muslim state founded on war and large violent population transfers."

Ask a Muslim if they support "Pakistan exists" and how many would disagree? Realistically? But you dare act disgusted and shocked that a similar number and percentage of Jews support "Israel exists"? My entire question is why "This is a country that has done bad things and it exists amid ethnic conflict" is even on par with "this niche cult within a giant religion (literally they admitted to it) did a massacre on civilians."

If that's the moral equivalence then we're done here. I'm not playing games like that.

[fairuzfan]

Genuinely curious, because I've seen some people say that one should vote biden because if you vote for trump or desantis their stance on the ongoing genocide and other matters would actually be worse than what we're contending with, and I have no true frame of reference: do you think that's actually true or a likely possibility?

I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't matter who we vote for anyways, the outcomes will still be the same. Biden is enabling 4 different genocides/ethnic cleansing (Palestine, Congo, Armenia, Sudan) and honestly, I don't see how it can get any worse.

They often make the argument that things will happen *here* that is dangerous but speaking as someone who has lived in a very Red state my entire life, it has never been safe or welcoming for me to begin with, along with others who have similar identities to me. Not to mention that bad things have already happened here under Biden, with the Abortion ban, book bans, and ban on critical race theory being taught in schools.

Trump is not great, like I don't want him to win either. He was the person who moved the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem and it was seen as a political slap to the face to Palestinians (click). Don't get me wrong they're both piles of shit. But I refuse to elect people into office that let such flagrantly terrible things happen in the world. These people have no oversight in their actions, are free to do what they want, and no manner of "democratic" intervention will stop them from doing the things they want, especially when they're afraid of losing funding for going against major lobbying organizations like CUFI and AIPAC.

This isn't the first time Biden ignored Palestinians in this term. Remember in 2021 with the settlements in Shiekh Jarrah? He didn't say a word condemning Israel for their forced displacement and their bombardment of Gaza (click). Sure the Abraham Accords sucked and that was brokered by Trump, but Biden could have undone that. He didn't. He just re-approved aid to Palestinians (which, who cares when they're under occupation? No amount of aid will help them attain liberation). Palestinians don't want aid — they want America to stop funding the Zionist Entity.

Everyone in Palestine already knows that the Israel's biggest supporter, America, is also their biggest funder. If they just stopped funding, everything would be cut in half. There is no way the Zionist entity would be able to sustain itself. Even now, their economy is failing because they relied on Palestinians for much of their cheap labor. They cannot support themselves without USAmerica's direct intervention.

I am of the opinion that we should organize to change the way our government operates or else things like these will keep happening. It does not help anyone but the ultrarich and the people in power. Things like Cop City and the genocide in Congo and Sudan and Armenia only happen because the US has a vested monetary interest in oppressing them. This will not change between presidents. Biden will just be quieter about it.

I don't know how to organize stuff like this, or where to go to organize, but if we keep playing in the system they laid out where they always win, then there's no way anything can change.

[heyguys-itsnicole]

something that's so vile and disgusting is seeing how people will defend Israel's actions on the basis that Palestinian people simply have less value as human beings; always referring to them as "animals", and saying it's "good they're behind a wall" and it's "necessary" to protect the "civilised people."

if anything, you would expect a Jewish state to be the last one to fall for something like this. And yet, no lesson has been learnt. The dehumanisation taking place is so abhorrent and prevalent that its mind-boggling how it doesn't get questioned by the people posting it.

plus, the framing of the conflict has been shocking. expecting palestinian territory to get smaller and smaller and more and more militarised by their land-seizers whilst expecting no response or backlash is completely unrealistic. the actual oppression Palestinian people go through is completely ignored - the way this is being reported on, you'd think Palestinian people started a world war over a minor disagreement, not an operation to liberate both themselves and a thousand Palestinian hostages.

dehumanisation and apartheid is what leads to full-blown fascism, (it's a symptom of it) and eventually genocide if left unchecked and supported. it happened in germany, rwanda, america, etc. and each time it was simply based on so-called "rational thinking," it just made sense that the more advanced white man is destined to manifest the US into creation, ignore the backwards savages. it just made sense to blame the Jewish population for somehow losing WW1, and it just makes sense to contain the "subhuman Hamas supporters" to protect freedom and democracy. The goal is always complete eradication, of Native Americans, Jews, and now those in Palestine.

Critics will promote complete peace rather than any violence, saying that they just need to march or go on strike or host a sit-in. these are the recommendations of painfully disconnected people who can't seem to comprehend how violent action against violence may be necessary in some cases. Especially when your imperialist occupiers are permitted on the world stage to host all this violence, dehumanisation, and broadcast biased news with impunity.

and all based on a religion claiming since they lived there 2,000 years ago they should get it back. someone should probably tell them that religions aren't real. they're made up, im not sure if they know that. literally the most pathetic justification for imperialism. no but god said i need to live here just like how god said my family specifically deserves and has the right to rule this country. i love divine justifications!! they're so great and never unfair every single time

[hellsbellschime]

I also think the US’s alliance with Israel is beyond political parties, most dem and republican candidates would provide aid because the alliance is too beneficial for us whether people like it or not. I also find it funny that people are getting on tiktok saying they’re no longer going to vote for him because of this, yet not a single person realizes how much the Ukraine would be fucked if they either didn’t vote or didn’t vote Dem. Oh you don’t like genocide for Palestinians but fuck those Ukrainians who are still fighting for their land and at war. It’s the hypocrisy.

One guy said Biden would go down as one of the worst presidents and I asked how is he “one of the worst”. Every time I ask people who declare that they never counter with any one of his policies that are so supposedly shit. And let’s be real, this rage is temporary and dare I say inauthentic, come next year there will be a big push to vote for Biden because Trump is terrifying.

Exactly, I get that it's a hugely cultural thing, but the positive propaganda for Israel has been INSANE in the US for decades, and there are a lot of very weird niche things that make people buy into the US/Israel alliance (for instance the nearly 100 million Evangelicals in the country are obsessed with Israel and Jewish people and therefore "supports" them in the hopes that they will all die and start the apocalypse, there's a lot of revisionist history that frames the US as the "heroes" of WWII so support of Israel is an easier sell, etc.). I mean FFS, the House vote to provide Israel with FOURTEEN BILLION DOLLARS IN AID should give you a good idea of what the political perspective on Israel has been for a long time. As far as politicians go, Biden is actually far more favorable towards Palestine than the vast majority of American politicians. And yes, ultimately that propaganda has always existed for a reason, because Israel is an incredibly valuable ally. The fact that Biden is putting any pressure on them to cool their jets at all given how yeehaw Americans are when it comes to demolishing terrorists is pretty abnormal.

And exactly, frankly, even if Biden were doing a shit job (which he's really not, yes he is too old for the gig but quite possibly the only upside of that is that he is politically experienced enough to actually get shit done when the Republican party has made obstructionism their first priority), the other options are fucking CRAZY. Like, it's probably going to be Donald Trump, a literal serial criminal who tried to overthrow the American government, and if it's not then it's Ron DeSantis or some other lunatic who will undoubtedly try to criminalize abortion and medical treatment for trans people and shit. Criticism towards US support of Israel is valid, but I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that WE are in the midst of a political crisis ourselves that has been going on for like 20+ years at this point and has only gotten worse. So if any remotely left-leaning people don't pull their shit together and stop losing the forest for the trees then a lot more than just Palestine is going to suffer for it.