#and i can’t believe they cut out faramir and boromir stuff.

[captaincanonly]

this concludes my current hobbit + lotr doodle dump :) hope you enjoy!

part 1 part 2

[lesbiansforboromir]

If a person wanted to write Boromir fic, do you have any tips on how to capture the Tolkieny tone in writing/best scenes to re-read for characterization?

LET ME SEE if I can’t compile a nice guide for you;

First thing’s first! Boromir does not include his own feelings into his statements unless it’s utterly against his will, such as the ring-controlled scene. In fact his discussion with Frodo is the first and last time he expresses his emotions verbally at all and even then it seems to be squeezed out of him in the midst of his ranting ‘how it ANGERS me’ like he is almost shocked at how angry he actually is in that moment, so much so that he can’t hold it back like normal. 

‘I am’ statements in general don’t come often either. He doesn’t use ‘I’ at all if he can help it. If he is describing the war or some conflicts or battles, he uses ‘us’ or ‘we’ ‘Some said that it could be seen, like a great black horseman, a dark shadow under the moon. Wherever he came a madness filled our foes, but fear fell on our boldest, so that horse and man gave way and fled. Only a remnant of our eastern force came back, destroying the last bridge that still stood amid the ruins of Osgiliath. 'I was in the company that held the bridge, until it was cast down behind us. Four only were saved by swimming: my brother and myself and two others.’ Here he mentions himself only as an explanation for the circumstances, and goes quickly back to talking as a collective. (This is the first and last time he mentions Faramir too, and never by name)

The times when Boromir uses ‘I’ statements most is for defining his own actions and intent or when he is offering advice. 'I have let my horn cry at setting forth, and though thereafter we may walk in the shadows, I will not go forth as a thief in the night.' He is clear to himself and others about what he will and won’t accept. 'I will add a word of advice, if I may,' said Boromir. 'I was born under the shadow of the White Mountains and know something of journeys in the high places. We shall meet bitter cold, if no worse, before we come down on the other side. It will not help us to keep so secret that we are frozen to death. When we leave here, where there are still a few trees and bushes, each of us should carry a faggot of wood, as large as he can bear.' Note here he is also polite but in a confident manner. ‘If I may’ is added to acknowledge that he is not the leader of the company, but he is not shy with offering his advice and assuming it useful. 

When he’s in more familiar and less strict circumstances, and actually sometimes even when he isn’t, Boromir has what I would call a... hint of sarcasm in his tone at all times. He’s always got a little sardonic wit with him,  `Let those call it the wind who will; there are fell voices on the air; and these stones are aimed at us.' See? It’s not... OVERT but it’s definitely a little long suffering/etc. Boromir... talks like an old man I guess is my point. 'What do you say to fire?' asked Boromir suddenly. 'The choice seems near now between fire and death, Gandalf. Doubtless we shall be hidden from all unfriendly eyes when the snow has covered us, but that will not help us.' ESPECIALLY when he’s talking to Gandalf, there’s just a bit of dark humour and ‘cheek’. `I do not know which to hope,' said Boromir grimly: `that Gandalf will find what he seeks, or that coming to the cliff we shall find the gates lost for ever. All choices seem ill, and to be caught between wolves and the wall the likeliest chance. Lead on!' jhadsjd BITCHY... but very funny and he’s right. And here also, ‘wolves and the wall’, he tends towards almost... poetic isn’t quite the word but he likes sayings and flowing dialogue. 

Continuing on from that point, Boromir is also generally... not WARM but he’s got a way of speaking that is comfortable and confident in comradery. Especially with Gimli, actually, he often makes these lighter sighed statements that have a lick of humour to them. Again, it’s never particularly overt, more of a constant underlying note in his wording, even in the latter parts of the fellowship. `Ah, it is as I said,' growled Gimli. 'It was no ordinary storm. It is the ill will of Caradhras. He does not love Elves and Dwarves, and that drift was laid to cut off our escape.' 'But happily your Caradhras has forgotten that you have Men with you,' said Boromir, who came up at that moment. `And doughty Men too, if I may say it; though lesser men with spades might have served you better.’ This is one of my favourite lines of his it’s just like... confident, not over proud, you can hear him grinning and the leetle wry tone he’s speaking in. Even here! In like the very last days of his life, he still has this quality! 

We might labour far upstream and yet miss it in the fog. I fear we must leave the River now, and make for the portage-way as best we can from here.' `That would not be easy, even if we were all Men,' said Boromir.     `Yet such as we are we will try it,' said Aragorn.  'Aye, we will,' said Gimli. `The legs of Men will lag on a rough road, while a Dwarf goes on, be the burden twice his own weight, Master Boromir! ' (later) 'Well, here we are, and here we must pass another night,' said Boromir. `We need sleep, and even if Aragorn had a mind to pass the Gates of Argonath by night, we are all too tired-except, no doubt, our sturdy dwarf.'     Gimli made no reply: he was nodding as he sat.

AND ANOTHER THING. Whilst Boromir CAN be an orator and give long speeches, he tends towards economy of speech. This is especially noticeable, again, between him and Gandalf. Gandalf will go on for three paragraphs about something, patronising him, explaining a lot of unnecessary stuff to sound clever. And then Boromir will just answer with; `We do not know what he expects,' said Boromir. `He may watch all roads, likely and unlikely. In that case to enter Moria would be to walk into a trap, hardly better than knocking at the gates of the Dark Tower itself. The name of Moria is black.' And that’s it! AND HE’S FFUCKIN RIGHT GGSHAHGS

So you’re usually going to be trying to narrow down his speech to it’s bare essentials in order to get the point across and nothing more. Stream lined, impersonal, confident and clear are the hallmarks of Boromir’s speech patterns. NO. SHOUTING. Unless to be heard or in a brief flash of shock, immediately restrained afterwards. Actually if Boromir has any kind of outburst, he tends to walk away from whatever situation caused it rather than allow anything to escalate. Boromir’s verbal tone is almost always neutral, wry or reassuring/comfortable. From experience, I can tell you this is... GRUELLING to write. You want so desperately for him to say what he’s thinking and feeling, what’s important to him, but he’s utterly incapable unless briefly possessed by evil. Not even when he’s literally dying will this change, though that might be because it was Aragorn at his deathside. Which brings me onto my final point.

We actually have no idea how Boromir might interact with people he actually likes and is friends with, let alone his family. I’m inclined to believe that warm comradery element just becomes more overt but little else changes. But you’re entirely at liberty to decide for yourself. Certainly though it is different from how he behaves throughout the fellowship. We never really meet Boromir... is a thought I can hardly bare so we’re STOPPING now. 

[morwensteelsheen]

If Faramir went to Rivendell, how would the whole ttt/rohan plot be different?

A good question that I have spent an unreasonable time thinking about! My first LOTR fic was going to be an attempt to answer this, but then I got so wrapped up in not having the answers that I sidelined it and wrote WC instead. So I think instead of giving you one definitive answer I’ll give you a couple scenarios I think are plausible? If that’s not too much of a cop out lmao? Apologies in advance for the inevitable spelling errors, I did this on my phone and my dyslexia is off the charts today.

I think it’s basically unavoidable that he goes via Rohan first, geographically he’s sort of left without an option there. When he’s there, we get into this issue of whether and how he and Éowyn interact. Worth noting, I think, that the Unfinished Tales has Éomer living in Aldburg by the War, but Éomer does seem to imply he’s around for Boromir passing through. Is this because he knows and already is a fan of Boromir? Maybe! Or maybe Éomer goes to Aldburg after.

But I digress. We have to ask the question of whether Faramir falls in love with Éowyn because he was always going to fall in love with Éowyn, or if it’s because the things he’s gone through immediately preceding it primed him for it. I — perhaps quite cheaply — come down on the side of Faramir always having it bad for her on first sight. And contextually I think that comes from his, rather sweet, enunciation of the way his regard/love changes for her. He says that at first he pities her, and then he gets to know her and he doesn’t pity her anymore, he respects and admires her. That’s an interesting dynamic to bring into play in basically every AU, because you get this double barrel characterisation of his attitude to her changing, and his own character maturing/sharp edges softening.

I think he off the bat he sees that she’s beautiful, and immediately is drawn to her for that. Shallow? Maybe! But, to badly paraphrase my ol fav Victor Hugo quote — love always begins with a glance.

I imagine he stays for a short while, maybe a week, two at most. At this point I think that Éowyn’s basically viewing him as an official guest that she has to entertain, and I think Faramir is, in his own, slightly stilted, slightly wanky way, putting the moves on her. This can go, imo, one of two ways. She can either be receptive to it (which is a nice thought!) or she can be aware of it but mostly ignore it because, really, she’s got lots of shit on her plate.

Either way, he leaves Edoras at some point. The big question is where does his go from there?

One thing I toy around with is that, given his pre-existing relationship to Gandalf, maybe he’s willing to trust the Istari a bit more and goes straight for Isengard? Which, and I think I did the math on this once a few months ago, would have him arriving at Isengard around the time Gandalf’s getting his shit kicked in by Saruman lol. I think this could be a really compelling plot point, but I’ll be very honest with you, I 100% don’t have the imagination or writing skills to figure out how it proceeds from there, so I’m not going to try to.

If he goes the normal Boromir route, he still loses his horse at Tharbad and walks (lmao jesus???) to Rivendell. When he gets there, I think he’s immediately going to have everything he knows put to the test in quite jarring ways. First off, he’s going to be infinitely more deferential to Elrond, Aragorn &c when they’re trashing Gondor. He’ll push back a bit, no doubt on that, but he’s going to be starstruck by Aragorn in a way that Boromir just wasn’t.

No real difference I imagine between Rivendell and Lothlórien, except that he’d definitely be laser focused on palling about with Aragorn, and he’d probably spend more of his time being friendly with Frodo than with Merry and Pippin tbh (not in a douchey way, I just think he and Frodo vibe a little better. Though I bet he and Merry had some interesting chats about pipe weed history).

The underlying question here is what sort of relationship does he have to the ring? I don’t buy this idea that he’s not tempted by it, I just think that what the ring offers him is a bit shit. We don’t know what the ring tempts him with, he’s not clear on that in TTT. I can’t really see the ring being like ‘oh I’ll give you a king to follow’ because that is some intensely nerdy shit, but is somehow the one thing I could see Faramir actually being tempted by. Regardless of what it offers him in this AU, he resists it on the basis that he’s got this mythical king he’s been desperate for, and he’s not gonna risk that for anything.

Lothlórien comes next, and oh my god when I tell you this is the part I genuinely have no answer for. I stopped writing my first fic at Lothlórien because I couldn’t cope. Tbh it probably lowkey fries Faramir’s brain, and for so many reasons. The whole godmoding Númenórean stuff he’s got going on probably interests Galadriel a bit, and so that whole conversation is going to be wildly different than it was for Boromir. But what does she say to Faramir? I have no idea. I really don’t. There’s also probably a million and one things also going on psychologically for him at that point, which makes dealing with this bit difficult. Really difficult. So I’m gonna, uh, conveniently smash cut away.

Parth Galen! Again, another two potential splits here. The first, (from here on out I’ll refer to as Plot A) which I find rather endearing, is that he goes off with Frodo and Sam when Frodo makes the decision to split. I don’t know that I believe he’d do it, but it proves for a very delightful interpretation of his character.

Plot B is that when the Orcs show up, Faramir survives not by virtue of his being a ~ better warrior ~ or whatever than Boromir, but by the terrain surrounding Parth Galen being something he’s far more in the habit of dealing with, and by virtue of his having a bow at his disposal. I know there’s room for an interpretation of Faramir as not primarily an archer, but narratively I think that’s less interesting. So he’s an archer. He’s an archer and also his priority is on Aragorn first and foremost, so Merry and Pip still get taken, and Frodo and Sam use the hubbub to GTFO, which is actually slightly more in line with the movie’s chronology, funnily enough. The three hunters become four, and then go on Merry & Pippin’s trails.

In Plot A, they’re hauling ass across the Emyn Muil, bolstered in some ways by Faramir’s experience as a Ranger. The problem is the issue of getting into Mordor and whether or not they pick up Gollum. I think, in a way that frustrates me immensely, they do end up taking Gollum, not because they need a guide, but because Gollum fulfils this deep psychological need for Frodo, and I think he would have argued for keeping Gollum regardless. Faramir is going to be fucked off about this, but will ultimately, I think, be deferential to the ringbearer.

So they go across the Dead Marshes, but they do NOT attempt the Black Gate first because Faramir’s not a fool. Do they go to Henneth Annûn? I say yes, but with the caveat that in all likelihood Boromir is gonna be there, which is gonna complicate stuff tremendously.

Over to Plot B!

The four hunters go to the Mark! They meet Éomer! Hey! Éomer recognises Faramir! (And he’s probably a little fucked off that he lost his horse lol). But whatever, he knows this guy, so he’s probably gonna be like, uhhh, everything you saw before in Edoras is much worse now. Also my cousin's dead and everything is bad. Here’s some horses, sorry for maybe accidentally killing your pals, see ya! And at this point I think Faramir’s probably having a, hmmm, g e n t l e  p s y c h i c  c r i s i s, because if he’s still very 👅 for Éowyn (which he is, sorry, he has to be) then he’s going to want to go there ASAP. Obviously though that’s not gonna happen, so: Merry and Pip chasing, Gandalf finding, Edoras arriving.

Which means Éowyn. If, at this point, she and Faramir already have something of an arrangement going on (nudge nudge) then she’s really not gonna give a shit about Aragorn. You know how in TTT it’s not even clear that she actually sees Legolas and Gimli? 100% that vibe with Aragorn too. Théoden’s gonna get his house in order, they’re going to head to Helm’s Deep, and Éowyn’s gonna get named head of house. (Faramir, if he starts off just thinking she’s beautiful, is going to have quite the paradigm shift here, because he’s going to have to start reckoning with her as not just a beautiful woman, but as a very, very intense person. This is how his love for her starts to mature.)

Sometimes I dream about him being like, ‘hey! I have some first hand experience of ruling a kingdom, how about I stay and…….. lend you a hand……..’ to Éowyn while she’s keeping watch on Edoras. This is wildly unlikely, but a delightful thought nonetheless. In the more likely case, which is that he goes to the Hornburg, she’s going to start feeling some strain about this whole war shebang, and it’s going to lead to some difficult conversations. Chief among them is that Faramir, as second son, actually has basically nothing to give her, which is not exactly a great position to be in when you’re in love with the niece of a king. I’m of the opinion that Éowyn’s not fussed by that stuff (she agrees to marry him when he’s prepping to give up a shit ton of power anyways), so she’s probably like, 'no, fuck you, we’re getting married.' And then he leaves, and it starts to emotionally unsettle her more and more.

If they don’t already have a thing, then it either begins at this point OR he gets overshadowed by Aragorn. In either case, off to Helm’s Deep he goes.

Helm’s Deep happens, I think Faramir ends up extraordinarily impressed by how the Rohirrim handle the Dunlenders afterwards, which also begins to soften his harsh opinion of them more generally.

They go to Isengard, Pippin looks in the Palantír, and away Pippin and Gandalf go. Both Gandalf and Faramir here would recognise that it would be batshit insane for Faramir to go back to MT now, because Denethor would read him like a picture book and he’d have to admit to the entire mission of the Fellowship.

Over in Plot A, I think we’re going to have some real emotional complexity vis a vis Faramir showing up at Henneth Annûn with two hobbits, a ring, and Boromir in control there. God, it would just be a disaster. My incredibly generous interpretation of this is that Faramir keeps the plan vague enough that Boromir lets them pass unhindered. My less generous interpretation is… yeah I don’t wanna do it tbh. It’s not pretty. It's also, to be clear: not an indictment of Boromir as a character. His response is entirely rational for someone expected to lead a kingdom and for someone put up against the unbelievable power of the One Ring. The reason Faramir continuously gets to pass largely untempted by the ring is because he's a guy with no actual responsibilities once you take the Rangers away. His understanding of his duty to Gondor is almost entirely conceptual in nature. He can think and talk about defending Gondor as it once was because there are several people above him in the hierarchy defending Gondor for what it is. This is also not an indictment of Faramir. He and Boromir just have wildly different realities to contend with.

They are going to go through Cirith Ungol even though Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumbass both speak Sindarin and don’t cotton on to what its name implies lol. This whole scene is much shorter because Faramir’s significantly more cautious, so there is no Orc capture and Sam doesn't take the Ring. This is where things get a bit complex, and where I don’t think I have the imagination to say much more. Sorry!

Back in Plot B, the lads catch up with Éowyn as they prep to go down the Paths of the Dead. If she and Faramir are a thing, this is where the real emotional distress kicks in for her. All of the men in her life have, at one point or another, functionally abandoned her, and here’s Faramir, love of her life, about to do the exact same thing. Faramir inevitably goes with the Grey Company even though she begs him not to. When she tries to convince them not to go down the Paths at all, he is in the fortunate enough position to throw up his hands and say 'not my call, actually. King’s in charge,' which lessens the emotional conflict there somewhat.

No part of me doubts that Éowyn wouldn’t then immediately go over his head to Aragorn. She would, she absolutely does not give a fuck. And she’s going to get knocked back re: joining them in exactly the same way as in the book, because Aragorn’s take here isn’t actually dependent on her personally, it’s dependent on the duty she’s been charged with, which is taking care of her people. (Also going to be an interesting narrative parallel to a later conversation between Faramir and Aragorn after the Pelennor, which I’ll explain in more detail later.)

Faramir will, perhaps somewhat less dismissively, say this to her. He learns much more obviously the way to talk to her on her own terms, and he’s not gonna fall into the trap of letting her be like ‘you just want me to wait and die after all the men are dead.’ He’s going to probably give her some line about her being the last organised line of defence, and he might even invoke Haleth! It’s not going to work, because Éowyn’s very aware of the apocalyptic nature of all of this, but it’s not going to cause such abject hatred and fury as it otherwise would.

If she and Faramir are not a thing, her emotional distress is as it is in the book, except now Faramir’s trying not to pout in the background. He might even step in to try and soften the blow.

Regardless, she ends up as Dernhelm, she rides to the Pelennor.

Boromir is the one responsible for the Osgiliath retreat, and because it’s heavily implied that Faramir only keeps his seat because he’s got this dumbass Númenor garbage going on ('master of man and beast' — king Beregond), Boromir’s going to get killed by the Witch king here.

This is going to send shockwaves through not just Denethor, but Minas Tirith more generally, because Boromir is fucking adored. Denethor’s going to go high holy crackers much quicker, mostly because Gandalf is a shit stirrer and is going to waste no time at all in announcing that Aragorn, The Rightful King, is on his way, and Denethor will — correctly — surmise that Faramir has chosen Aragorn over returning with whatever Isildur’s Bane is to Gondor. This is the end for Denethor.

Éowyn rides from Dunharrow, slays the Witch king. Faramir and Aragorn show up with the Army of Dead, Faramir does not end up injured, but does end up as the Steward (obviously) and (obviously) aware that Éowyn is in the HOH. And also that everybody else he loves is dead. Yeehaw.

Here’s where I think things get really interesting. I think, counter to the way this is portrayed a lot of the time, Faramir doesn’t go to the Black Gate at all. I think he stays in Minas Tirith, not just to organise the wider range defences (esp the Rohirrim dealing w the Druadan) but in this very grim preparation to lead the retreat from Minas Tirith if/when Frodo & Sam fail. I think he's kind of fine with this for two reasons. The first is that him being conscious to process the death of his father, and it coming hours after the death of his brother means that he's going to have a personal-political crisis, and he's going to have to take the defence of Gondor more seriously than he did before. Second, Aragorn's going to tell him to fucking stay put, and he's going to be fine with it because it means he's going to get to spend the last few days of his life with Éowyn.

He and Éowyn reunite in the HOH, there’s still a lot of deeply emotional stuff going on, but, at least now Faramir’s conscience is clear re: marrying her because, well, he’s the Steward now. Also their reunion is going to take on greater significance because she’ll have killed the thing that killed his brother. So, that’s a lot.

If they are not a thing before the Pelennor, she's still going to drag his ass over to the HOH so she can bitch about being stuck there. But this time he's not a fellow hospital-prisoner, he's having to actually do things, and he's going to use that to his advantage in terms of keeping her from doing stupid shit. I think he's going to try to involve her in some of the strategic questions re: the retreat if the Morannon feint fails. I think he's going to make a point of talking to her to get her help on dealing with the Rohir forces that are in and around the City. I think that's going to go a huge way to helping to ease her misery, and it's going to be such a significant vote of trust in her (even after she's done the unthinkable and deserted her people) that she's going to fall in love with him here, as per. And the contrast between him and Aragorn is going to be all the stronger for it.

So yes. Those are just some of the possibilities I think! Sorry for the word dump!!

[vardasvapors]

@berrysphase replied to your post:                   berrysphase replied to your post:                ...                

   So, perhaps oddly, I agree with your statement about the wholesale stuff as concerns the greater legendarium, but not LOTR?  In LOTR, considered within its own boundaries, I come away with the deeply uncomfortable sense that the restoration of Gondor’s kingship, the mystic strength in the true line of Elendil, the high and fading virtues of Numenor (transmitted in the germline), are all unquestioned good.  

   but in the greater legendarium all these things are complicated and much more nuanced, especially the colonialism issue re Numenor.  

   eventually there are topics I just can’t think too hard about (especially in-world Valar-related morality questions and the infernal question of Numenor and how far its colonialism is ‘justified’) or it all falls apart and I have to go lie down – I mean, there’s a lot of quicksand    

   I guess what I am saying is *hands* it would be very illuminating and interesting to hear about one of your lines! because to me they are either not clear, or only clear if I carefully avoid looking at them    

OH YEAH THAT IS A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE. I think that would definitely qualify as a line -- in my opinion, LOTR is undermined as a story if Aragorn’s reign is Actually A Bad Thing, because the alternative-subplot that springs into existence under that reading is....uh....I guess “boring pointlessness tacked onto to a story that’s actually about Frodo etc” is a good way of putting it. But otoh the, like, Actual Lines of Dialogue The Characters Say in support of said Aragorn subplot are also.....what’s a better way of saying ‘irredeemably racist’? So it’s not like just “ignore it! it’s fantasy!” or some shit, but it IS one of those things that for me (though other people might feel totally differently) is much more satisfying to reconcile, rather than wholesale resist or overturn.

Anyway this might be making a mountain out of a molehill-sized solution, but I’m too tired to edit myself down in length so:

(uh.....before the cut....heads up i wrote this at top speed without testing for argumentative rigorousness/accuracy so.....fair warning)

Actually I think this is a much more easily fanwankable problem than some? Mostly because, imo, Aragorn’s character arc and the moral worth of his arc already HAS two alternative justifications right in canon! One is prophetic, and essentially is a 90%-blind prediction of the sequence of events that makes up the plot of LOTR. “either you will become greater than any of your ancestors since Elendil or fall into darkness with all your kin,” says Ivorwen and Elrond and Gandalf. The other is the whole Heir of Isildur renewal of the ~pure bloodline of kings bullshit, which doesn’t lend a single whit to the legitimacy of Aragorn as a person or to the readers opinion of him -- but it matters a lot to the in-universe Dunedain characters of Arnor and Gondor, including Aragorn himself. It’s the whole justification for them ushering him through the loophole and onto the throne. So I’d say, if you want to read Aragorn’s reign and arc as worthwhile - which I do too, because otherwise that subplot of LOTR is a vastly inferior and duller story at best, if not a complete and utter waste of time at worst - one could always go for the idea that the reason it has worth doesn’t need to be the same reason - the True Numenorean King stuff - that the characters of LOTR think it has worth.

Like, the first step is, LOTR’s timespan is so short. REALLY short. Substantively, one could just..pick another 6 month timespan in the legendarium, any 6 month timespan that overlaps a major political shift. or a 120 year timespan too, if you’re thinking Aragorn’s whole reign, in the Silmarillion. in the Akallabeth. in the unfinished tales. LOTR is a blip, time-wise -- it’s a personal story that intersects with the Silm-tier stuff for a brief, if pivotal, skip of time, and incorporates the brief, hindsight-less impressions of the people alive at that moment of time right into the reader’s POV, in a way that the Silm doesn’t do.

So when taking into account how limited the timeline and POV of LOTR characters are, comparatively speaking, I think of Aragorn’s crowning and the restoration of the line as not “inherently good,” but good because it happened to be the right thing at that one period of time.

I definitely think that...even the text, not just my headcanon, very strongly implies that the reason Aragorn’s king bid turned out successfully is because he lived most of his adult life with that prophecy over his head, and therefore practiced all his life to become an actually genuinely good king -- the whole bloodline/heirship stuff is just kind of...justification, in terms of personal/family/numenorean honor, and political plausible deniability -- Aragorn’s sincerely-felt path and reasoning to get there that isn’t just “either you’ll become king or everyone is doomed, because the future says so!” + “here’s a legal loophole to become king!”

And, I think, the in-universe reason the people of Gondor supported Aragorn becoming king is partly because coincidentally Denethor and Boromir were dead and Faramir didn’t reject him; partly because he had the bloodline loophole excuse; and partly (mostly) because everyone was so impressed with how he helped save the world.

But the reason Aragorn managed to wind up in a position to help save the world, and make the right choices to help save the world, is mostly that he was the type of brave and selfless and sincere person who would sacrifice his dream in order to rescue Merry and Pippin, or sacrifice his life to get Sauron to attack him and disregard Frodo and Sam. The sort of person who understands how much worth his people have, who knows what is deckchair-rearranging and what is a beam of true hope be it ever so slender, who accepts the sheer smallness and simplicity of what he needs to do for the greater good, and who respects and can influence his people enough to insist that they accept and understand all of this as well. Which are, like, actually good qualities in a king!

And the whole reason he became such a good person is....because he strove to be so, and because the people around him believed in him and helped him become so, and because of his and their own personal desire to restore the kingship and glory of his people. Uh. sorry. I already just said that.

It’s a circular thing. The myopic tribal hereditary reasons the characters/narrative assigns bloodline-related worth and authority to Aragorn have jack shit to do with the actual reasons he has real moral worth and earned authority, but his own priorities and desires that led to him developing that worth and authority are myopic and tribal and hereditary too.

So I think this specifically isn’t a case of “either Aragorn’s kingship is good because it is a restoration of the line of Elendil, or it isn’t good because the restoration of the line of Elendil is a morally vacuous cause.” It’s a case of causal connections that are really important but are far more circumstantial than the characters (or the narrative) acknowledges -- people interpret the restoration of the kingship as something Racially And Normatively Appropriate and Special And Right, which...is a) lmao plz, but also b) the Numenoreans and the line of Isildur specifically DO have evidence-based racially-based advantages. It’s just that those advantages don’t confer any inherent worth of any kind --- Aragorn’s bloodline just happened, in this case, to be SUPER USEFUL, because it’s ancient fairy-tale magic that lets him do SUPER USEFUL things in the context of weaponizing Middle Earth’s lingering scraps of fairy tale magic against Middle Earth’s lingering scrap of fairy tale horror. It lets him troll Sauron with a palantir that he could properly use -- due the fact that the Palantir DOES operate on ridiculous ancient morally vacuous bloodline-magic. Or lets him make the oathbreaker ghosts help him out with the corsairs, because the oathbreaker ghosts too, are ancient lingering equally morally vacuous Soulbinding Promise Magic. The whole concept of the Restoration of the Line of Elendil IS, of course, a morally vacuous cause on its own, as anything other than an in-universe stamp of political legitimacy -- but it appears to also have been an essential in-universe motivation and tool for getting the characters into the places they needed to be, in order for the intricately-woven web of events that make up LOTR to come out in the wash the way it did.

For the in-universe characters, saying that there’s something Inherently Good about the renewal of the line of kings and stuff is actually just....it’s only important to them. It’s this stopgap period, post-Ring-Destruction: re-righting the boat and kind of having this adjustment period of fairy-tale magic to kind of ease people from the pre-ring destruction world where there are dark lords and elves, to the post-ring-destruction world. Everyone in-universe goes “rah rah this isn’t just good because circumstances lined up in such a way so that it was good, as prophesied, it’s Totally Also Inherently Good independent of circumstances.” And it isn’t. At all. But it makes sense why they think that, and want to think that, and why the real explanation would not be sufficient for them. The idea that Aragorn’s one and only world-saving action was distracting Sauron from his destroyers, and that the only reason Sauron was destroyed was because of three hobbits and a mixed handful of coincidence and grace swirling together in an Augustinian whirlpool, is not a super crowdpleasing national myth.

And then, the period after he becomes king DOES imo involve like, a bunch of colonial-reminiscent shit that kind of plays into the people’s expectations and view of themselves -- the racial superiority and suggestions of imperialism-flavored actions regarding all the vague mentions throughout the early 4th age timeline of quelling rebellions in various corners of the world (though imo these are not as conclusive or devoid of wiggle-room as some people interpret them). And I REALLY DISLIKE THIS PART because I’m perennially like...yo, what a massive wasted opportunity there Tolkien...because the irony of Aragorn the hereditary king in exile being restored in such a roundabout way that has so little to do with his heirship is a plotline that would be SO MUCH BETTER to acknowledge and focus on than the bald OMG Heir Of Isildur The True King With Pure Ancestry Has Come!!! thing that happens in canon with only a tiny bit of wink-winking about how much dumb luck it actually was. It would have made a really wonderful story!

In fact, I occasionally do wonder -- from the Appendices and the Prologue of LOTR, the supposed “real” “historical” book which the in-universe character of “JRR Tolkien: Not An Author, Only A Translator” translated, is purported to be a copy of a copy of the Red Book of Westmarch that was edited and translated by the scribe Findegil of Gondor, as copied from Pippin’s copy, of Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam’s copy. And one can imagine it’s not too big a stretch that Frodo and Sam might have been more on-the-money regarding Aragorn and the whole kingship restoration plotline in their original story, but Findegil obscured their insights a bit -- even just from good-faith well-intended biased interpretation due to his understanding of Gondor’s renewal histories.

But still....even with all the undertones and overtones of the restoration of old colonial stuff -- does that mean restoration of old colonial shit in perpetuity? I don’t think THAT’S a necessary extrapolation. For one, imo there’s no testament of proportionality. Elements of recurrences of old colonial shit seem to have been present! -- but for how long, how impactful or destructive, compared to how much tables-turning revolutionary awesome genuine improvement stuff, given everything Sauron had been doing? I mean could be shittier than anything like is often is IRL, but this is as outsode of RL as you get. So. A drop amid a flood? Could be. Who knows? Not much is specified, but not much is precluded either. You can fill in that 120 year gap with almost anything. If someone wanted to fill it with some fantasy of a historical-fiction Realpolitik aesthetic, instead of actually making up something new from the unlimited amount of creative potential conferred by an ahistorical post-dark-lord fantasy setting, that’s legit, but it’s still just conjecture.

Going back up 5 paragraphs to when I thought this was going to be a short answer (LOL) -- 120 years is both very long AND very short -- i.e., 120 years is a nose-to-the-ground view vis-a-vis Silmarillion times, but otoh vis-a-vis RL timelines, there’s just so much TIME and room for....i mean 120 years ago today was 1897? Before World War I? How vastly has world and domestic policy has changed since then? Or like...pick from your choice of other 120 year periods in pre-modern history too, if that’s not a good comparison. Even if there isn’t much concrete reliable evidence, there’s still a lot of room, even before Aragorn’s death - but even more room after it! - for the people of the Reunited Kingdom to potentially, if you so choose, have their day in the sun comforting themselves about how great they are and how their ancestral royal line is restored, and then just slowly move on, change, grow, progress, decide some of their earlier ideas were dumb, reverse themselves in various political and foreign policy arenas (like they had already started to do in some cases during the LOTR timeline), quietly purge themselves of their racist bullshit  -- over the course of a few generations, as is the way of mortal realms. And most importantly, to finally let go of the past, because they’ve been able to taste the satisfaction of a fairy tale, and have come through it, and their children’s children have now lived to see a time where they don’t need it.

(This assumes that The New Shadow is non-canon. Which. HELL YES. It is  fucking non-canon, because it’s stupid and even Tolkien thought it was depressing and mean-spirited, which is seriously saying something.)

[justanothercinemaniac]

Epic Movie (Re)Watch #200 - The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

Spoilers Below

Have I seen it before: Yes

Did I like it then: Yes.

Do I remember it: Yes.

Did I see it in theaters: No.

Format: Blu-ray

1) The prologue.

This first scene of the last film does a number of things well. For one, Sméagol suddenly becomes a much more sympathetic and tragic character. We see how happy this creature was before being corrupted by the evil of the ring; before becoming Gollum. And that’s the other thing this scene does well: we understand better than ever how evil the ring is. How quickly it can turn good people bad. This sets the stakes high for the final chapter of the trilogy. Originally meant for The Two Towers, its inclusion in this film works so much better I think. Also it’s worth noting that the transformation from practical Gollum makeup to CG is seamless and visceral.

2) I love how freaking angry Gimli gets upon running into Merry & Pippin alive (after searching so desperately for them in Two Towers) before being tempted by what they’re smoking.

3) It’s worth noting that I HAVE watched the extended editions of all three films and while I usually forget about the scenes added in those versions, Saruman’s death scene (which is cut in this film) is always one I miss. It is a nice note of finality for such a major character in the trilogy.

4) Much as this film really covers Frodo’s eventual corruption by the ring, Aragorn’s journey is also complete. Over the course of the trilogy we see him go from a loner who wants nothing to do with leadership into the king of men. This film is very much about Aragorn accepting that part of himself, becoming the leader he was always meant to be, and we see it in many little ways. He takes a moment for himself to respect those fallen before celebrating a victory, he imparts wisdom onto Gandalf, he earns the trust of Théoden, later honors his promise to the ghost soldiers even though he could’ve used them as a weapon, and leads his army into battle in an effort to give Frodo the time he needs. By the time the credits role Aragorn fully embraces his duty as king and that’s a wonderful transformation to watch.

5) Have I mentioned I low-key ship Sam and Frodo?

Frodo: “I need you on my side.”

Sam: “I’m always on your side, Mr. Frodo.”

6) The last film very much covered Merry’s maturity, becoming invested in the war (which guides his actions in this film as well). In Return of the King we get to see Pippin grow more as a person. We see him go from a someone who doesn’t think before he acts (like when he looks into the orb and risks alerting Sauron about Frodo) to someone with deep sorrow who takes responsibility for his actions (such as when he pledges his allegiance to the Stewart of Gondor because he feels responsible for Boromir’s death). It’s a nice subplot for the film.

7) Can I just say: Théoden can be a real idiot.

Théoden [about Gondor]: “Tell me: why should we ride to the aid of those who did not come to ours?”

Dude, you made SUCH a big deal about not asking for Gondor’s aid in the last movie when you were heavily advised to do just that. And now you’re getting pissy because they didn’t give you something you said you didn’t want?

8) While Sam and Frodo’s kinship is wicked strong, that’s not to undersell how deeply connected Merry and Pippin are. They’re great friends and the sadness of their goodbye as Gandalf takes Pippin to Gondor speaks to that.

9) Okay, can I just say something? There are only three named female characters in these films I can think of who have lines: Arwen, Galadriel, and Éowyn. They’re all awesome, they’re all great. They never EVER interact with each other and while we understand both Arwen and Galadriel are dangerous women it’s only Éowyn who gets to fight in the war. And I get the books were published in the 50s and everything but come on. Some changes to improve on female presence wouldn’t kill the movie.

10)

Arwen [about Aragorn]: “If I leave him now, I will regret it forever.”

And that’s literal, because elves are immortal. I just wanted to point that out.

11) John Noble as Denethor.

While there is initially a bit of sympathy for the stewart of Gondor because he’s mourning his son Boromir, wow is that lost quickly. I am rooting for this guy to die harder than I am any other character in this series because he is such a raging asshole. I think he’s supposed to be and John Noble plays him in a very interesting way. Much like Imelda Staunton was great at making us hate Doloris Umbridge in Harry Potter, John Noble is great at making Denethor a selfish, arrogant, cruel bastard who I just want to punch in his fucking permanent scowl of a face. HE FUCKING ADMITS THAT HE WISHES FARAMIR WERE DEAD INSTEAD OF BOROMIR! I just…yeah, I’m glad when this jackass dies.

12) The Dead City always reminded me a little of the Emerald City from The Wizard of Oz. Or is that just me?

13) I apologize for this in advance.

Frodo [when he feels the Witch King near, who stabbed him in Fellowship]: “I can feel his blade.”

(GIF source unknown [if this is your GIF please let me know].)

14) At first I questioned the need to include Faramir’s skirmish with the orcs, but for one thing it shows the continued darkness which spreads across Middle Earth as well as the scale of this war. Not to mention it feeds directly into a conflict between Faramir and his jackass dad.

15) I love Éowyn, which I said as much in the last recap. But in this film she is just so freaking ready to fight for those she loves, to stand up against evil even though the sexism of Middle Earth tries to keep her off the battlefield. But she doesn’t and we get the best moment in the whole trilogy. More on that later.

16) When I was younger I never really understood why Frodo believes Sam actually stole the bread, why he sends Sam away. But now I get just how great a manipulator Gollum is and how dark the ring can be on Frodo’s soul. Gollum knows EXACTLY what the ring is doing to him, the little things it whispers to him, the greed and mistrust which is taking him. He knows because he spent (I think) five hundred years under that very same influence. He knows what Frodo is going through better than anyone which he manipulates to his advantage.

17) Sean Astin just freaking shines with his breakdown after Frodo sends him away breaks up with him (you know, after refusing to give Sam a ring). He’s come so far, sacrificing his very life, to make sure Mr. Frodo stays safe and trying to make sure the ring doesn’t take him. And he’s ALWAYS on Frodo’s side, he always trusts Frodo. But Frodo can’t do the same thing for Sam. In fact, he does the complete opposite and distrusts him so deeply he tries to get rid of him. And it’s based on NOTHING, just the manipulations of a fiend and the darkness of the ring. Astin i just so great and conveying how heavy this is on Sam, I love it.

18) Ah, the song.

First of all, Billy Boyd’s vocals are just absolutely amazing here. They infuse the song with such grand heartache which helps it set the tone for Faramir’s attack on the orc troops. This isn’t a grand action scene, this isn’t a heroic triumph, this is a heartbreaking suicide mission made because of a son wanting to earn the love of his soulless father. And that’s why the song works as well as it does. It sets a beautiful tone.

19) Honestly, a few of these notes are just going to be me acknowledging awesome Éowyn is.

Éowyn [after some troops laugh at Merry for wanting to fight]: “Why can he not fight for those he loves?”

20) The scene where Aragorn takes the sword from Elrond is a great moment. The music, Aragorn’s demeanor, the subtleties of the cinematography, the visual of Aragorn taking the sword, it all just makes it feel like a real hero’s moment.

21) While the extended edition of this film may have some more Legolas & Gimli moments (there’s this wonderful drinking competition they get into), the bromance of the entire trio is still something I love.

Gimli [after Aragorn tries going into the dead mountain alone]: “You might as well accept it: we’re going with you, laddie.”

22) Merry is told he can’t go into battle by Théoden, that no one will carry him on their horse. Meanwhile Éowyn - who was basically told to stay at home and look after things while the men fight - says, “Screw that,” and takes Merry into battle herself. I LOVE ÉOWYN!

23) The scene with the ghosts and the dead mountain is truly eerie. Peter Jackson’s roots as a horror director really shine through in this wonderfully creepy scene and place. It’s just chilling.

24) In the long running list of why Denethor is a piece of shit: he is so freaking eager for Faramir to be dead and to have some man pain he doesn’t even check his pulse! Then he bitches about not getting help from Rohan which HE DIDN’T EVEN WANT and then gives up. Thank god for Gandalf.

25) The initial battle of Gondor has a nice sense of scale and stakes to it, especially when we see it through the eyes of Pippin. There’s this constant sense of dread and hardship which builds tension nicely.

26) I’m not talking about the spider scene because I always hide behind my hands when that scene is going on. I fucking hate spiders, guys. I hate them. It’s a miracle I didn’t just straight up fast forward past all the spider stuff. AND IT JUST KEEPS COMING BACK! You think the spider is gone but then no, it comes back for one last attack! ENOUGH WITH THE SPIDER ALREADY!

27) Gollum is totally done with the manipulation, the tricks, all of it. As soon as Frodo reveals his intention is to destroy the ring, he loses it and just is going to solve his problem with brute force. This doesn’t really work for him though.

28) Awww, Sam comes back to rescue his boyfriend only to think he’s dead.

Sam: “Don’t leave me here alone. Don’t go where I can’t follow.”

29) A coincidence to get the character in trouble helps move the plot along. Such as when the orcs show up RIGHT AFTER Frodo gets paralyzed so they can easily capture him.

30) Through a strong sense of visuals there is a nice feeling of hope when Rohan shows up to participate in the battle of Gondor. The build up to that and the fact we see it via Merry and Éowyn works REALLY well because they - like the audience - are both new to this.

31) I always liked that Gandalf is willing to leave the main battle to save Faramir, because isn’t that what this is all about? Saving as much life as we can.

32) There are few film deaths which are quite as satisfying to me as Denethor’s death. I won’t include it hear but those who have seen the movie know exactly what happens. Know if you seek it out it does involve fire (so if that triggers you maybe best to stay away).

33) Once the freaking elephants show up to battle you KNOW this shit is epic. One thing this film does best out of all three is its battle sequences are amazing. They may be long, but they are choreographed interestingly and use a strong sense of action = reaction to them. They’re epic and totally amazing.

34) I do have a bit of a fear of death, so Gandalf’s words to Merry always bring me calm.

Gandalf [after Merry says he can’t believe it’s going to end like this]: “End? No, the journey doesn’t end here. Death is just another path we must all take.”

35) THE BEST FREAKING MOMENT IN THE ENTIRE FREAKING TRILOGY! If you only watch one moment from The Lord of the Rings, make sure you watch this one. This is all you need to see. This is beautiful and I love it and it’s awesome. Watch it! Watch it now!

FUCKING ÉOWYN VERSUS THE FUCKING WITCH KING! YES! You can see she’s TOTALLY scared but that doesn’t matter at all. She works through the fear, she fights this mythical creature who is supposedly un-killable AND SHE FUCKING KILLS HIM! It’s either him or her uncle and damn it’s sure as hell not going to be her uncle! It is glorious. I cheer every time. I love it. Best moment in the trilogy. No contest. Done.

36) There is this tone shift in the battle of Gondor once Legolas and Gimli start their contest.

Gimli: “There’s plenty [of the enemy] for the both of us, may the best dwarf win.”

They bring out an intense amount of fun to the battle which just has you cheering them on. Cheering on the victory! I mean, LEGOLAS TAKES DOWN A FREAKING ELEPHANT!

Gimli: “THAT STILL COUNTS AS ONE!”

I love it.

37) Again, I apologize for this in advance.

Orc [about to kill Frodo]: “I’m going to stick you like a stuffed pig.”

Sam [killing the orc]: “Not if I stick you first.”

(GIF source unknown [if this is your GIF please let me know].)

38) It is always important that characters not be passive. Them making a choice is interesting. So even when Frodo is at a point where he can easily STOP carrying the ring and let Sam carry it, but he CHOSES not to, that’s interesting. It speaks to his character.

Frodo: “You must understand: the ring is my burden.”

39) This is one of my favorite things to hit the internet in 2012. It’s so random and weird I love it.

40) The moment when Aragorn really becomes the king of men is when he rallies his troops to fight against Sauron. He takes his role as leader seriously and he’s damn good at it.

Aragorn: “I see in your eyes the same fear which would take the heart in me!”

He relates to them, he lets them know he’s afraid, but his bravery inspires bravery in others. That’s what a good leader does. They speak of hope and unity against hatred, they don’t encourage it. They don’t divide people, they bring them together.

41) Have I mentioned I love Legolas and Gimli’s bromance?

Gimli: “Who thought I’d die fighting side by side with an elf?”

Legolas: “How about side by side with a friend?”

Gimli: “Aye. I can do that.”

42) Frodo is literally pushed past his physical limits, unable to climb any further up Mount Doom to destroy the ring. But he HAS to. That’s high stakes. Forgoing physical needs for the goal is the highest stakes imaginable. And also: HELL YEAH, SAMWISE GAMGEE!

Sam: “I can’t carry it for you, but I can carry you!”

43) Can I just say: I will never truly wrap my mind around the super convenient giant eagles which show up at the last minute. Like, maybe there’s an explanation for this in the books, but wouldn’t the eagles have helped out A LOT MORE before this final battle? I mean really. What’s with this Deus Ex Machina stuff?

44) The scene where Frodo decides to keep the ring visually matches the one where Isildur did the same thing in Fellowship, meaning the seeds for this were planted in the trilogy from film one. It’s smart planning and helps make the choice all the stronger. We’ve seen the consequences of this action once, but again? Oh man, that could be disastrous.

45) You can really see the influence the ring had on Frodo when this is the first thing he says after it’s destroyed.

Frodo: “I can see the shire.”

Frodo talked about how he couldn’t remember it before, while he was carrying the ring. But now it’s gone and he can. I love that.

46) One of my favorite moments in the series is when Frodo wakes up in Rivendale with Gandalf standing at his bead. Remember, Frodo thinks Gandalf is DEAD from the first film. So not only is there the joy at his own survival but that of his friend too. And you can see it on Elijah Wood’s face.

47) This film has A LOT of endings. Like, it takes 20 minutes to end. But I like each and every one. Firstly, this massive respect the hobbits are paid.

Aragorn [king of men, to the hobbits]: “My friends. You bow to no one.”

[Aragorn bows, then so does literally EVERYONE else]

48) The Shire still brings about the same sense of peace it did in Fellowship. You know you’re really out of danger when you are in that place. The tension defuses and it feels like…home. It’s worth noting that the hobbits at first have nothing to talk about while at the bar. They just sit there in silence because…what is there to say?

49) The final goodbye.

I may not be the best to pick up on subtext, but even I get that this boat into the West is meant to represent the afterlife. That Bilbo, Gandalf, and Frodo are all going into the afterlife (even though I always forget that Gandalf leaves). This is honestly not only the most fitting ending to the story, but for Frodo’s character as a whole. There’s no way Frodo could’ve just gone home after all that evil. He couldn’t have just returned to normalcy. He’s changed too much, so he has to move on. But just because Frodo’s gone, doesn’t mean life moves on. And I think that’s one of the greatest messages this film has: even in the face of great loss, life moves on. And there is always ALWAYS hope.

50) And I think instead of analyzing the song “Into the West” I’ll just leave you all with a link to listen to it because it’s a wonderful piece.

The Return of the King is everything fans loved about the first two Lord of the Rings films dialed up all the way. The stakes are at their highest, the battles are at their most epic, the performances are incredible, and the characters finally reach the end of the journey they started at the beginning of this film. Winning Best Picture at the Oscars the year it was nominated, this film definitely deserves it and is worth the watch (even if it is a long watch).

[lesbiansforboromir]

I was thinking about Faramir and his whole attitude towards "lesser men." I find your writing on that topic so interesting and different from most stuff I see about Faramir! (I still love him but...well). And I was thinking about how he later marries Eowyn, the rustic illiterate of those very "lesser" folk, and what, if anything, that implies about his character arc. I wondered if you have thoughts about that? I tried searching your blog but the search function has been wonky lately. Thank you!

Well firstly thanks very much :) glad you find it interesting. 

SO. I've tended to avoid talking too deeply about farawyn because I am aware I am not precisely... UNBIASED... when it comes to this ship. I've said this before but Eowyn's marrying a man was the first #lesbianidentifyingBETRAYAL I ever experienced and it has emotionally stuck with me. So I restrain myself from throwing my numerous thoughts onto the dash because I can't be sure they come from a COMPLETELY honest place and also like... I dO try to not yuck anybody's yum and people seem so attached to Farawyn... BUT if you come to ask me directly-

It's a quite common thing with characters in LoTR that they dont really HAVE arcs in the books. Many characters do not change in any big or definable way throughout the course of the tale and what you actually feel is that like... the book's tale and it's eventual ending with Sauron's defeat essentially releases them TOO grow. Character growth often feels like it happens offscreen. Faramir is one of these characters.

I think Faramir justified his attraction and growing feelings for Eowyn as due to her 'uniqueness'. He placed her on a pedastal above her people because of her own dunadain heritage and royal status. The rohirrim are not usually tall like Eowyn or grey-eyed but, due to her amrothian grandmother, Eowyn does have those features. And, more than that, it's known that the household of Rohan's Kings often don't know how to speak Rohirric but can speak Sindarin (because Thengel lived most of his life in Gondor rather than Rohan and only returned upon his father’s death). So even Theoden's behaviour reinforces the idea that the royal line of the rohirrim 'aren't like the rest'.

So not only does Faramir internally say 'she's not like those OTHER girls rohirrim', he also entirely believes that's what Eowyn thinks of herself too. He thinks she would agree with him! “Yes, the Rohirrim are men of the twilight but I am of a different and higher state.” And I'm afraid Eowyn likes the way he treats her because of this! Faramir's attention and admiration is quite heady and Eowyn's at the end of five years of muting her own personhood, having someone treat her as special and unique is very soothing and gratifying.

LIKE... god I could talk a lot about how much her epilogue frustrates me, how much this whole ‘she learned to live in peace’ doesn’t WORK when she’s immediately married off to the Steward of a land that is not her own BUT... to keep my mind on task... This state of affairs couldn’t have held up long term, obviously. Eventually Eowyn would realise that Faramir’s view of her people was not the fair-minded criticism that she hoped it was. 

And they would have a fight! And... this is where I lose my general ability to predict endings and possible threads. Because in canon they have a loving marriage that lasts their whole lives, so this fight must have an end that includes Faramir’s growth and realisation that he has been wrong about the ‘men of the twilight’. And one would hope so since Aragorn reclaims all of Harondor so the people there are now Faramir’s closest neighbours! 

BUT I JUST... I do not know how this happens. I expect it’s a combination of Eowyn’s impressive ability to form a point into incredibly cutting metaphors, plus the general fear Faramir must have of losing Eowyn’s favour. BUT... BUT... I just wish he could have come to that decision by himself, and without that his ‘growth’ feels quite hollow to me. Like Boromir was there his whole life verbally and passionately advocating for the Rohirrim, Denethor speaks to Theoden through letter as not just an equal but with a tone that’s respectful and thoughtful. And then there’s his “let all who fight the Enemy in their fashion be at one” line too. Imrahil weeps open tears at the sight of Theoden’s body! Imrahil!! Lord of Elf Fuckers City Central!! Like... why was Faramir the only one out of this family who went SO blood purist and faux traditionalist? What about Eowyn convinced Faramir finally? That he loves her? Did he not love his family? IF IT WAS INSPIRED BY HORNINESS IT DOESN’T COUNT. There I said it.