#and how hillview is done differently

[not-poignant]

Hi Pia

Hope you dont mind but UtB Temsen scares me. Like... there are things about him that just make me feel very unsafe lol.

I'm not sure whether you intended for him to have such a threatening undercurrent but if I existed in the Underline universe I'd stay far far away from him. It's strange because I don't get that same sense of foreboding from Gary or Augus and I'm wondering whether that because Gary has a pov and Augus is simply not present much. But idk.

I get a sense that there's an extreme darkness beneath peak alpha Temsen's character. Like, he apparently cares about omegas enough to go into a rage on their behalf and later work at Hillview but then does and says things that are like the exact opposite Like admitting that he would've raped Ef if Ef had been given to him instead of Gary and would've done it despite witnessing first hand through his profession the type of trauma that sexual abuse causes. And the fact that forced sex would've been the first thing on his mind instead of investigating further and finding the source of the pain? Yeah that's... kind of chilling actually.

So in his mind, rape isn't ok if it's committed by other alphas (like ones at different facilities) but it's ok if he commits it?

And then reading some of your responses about how Temsen is with his one night stands, or how he'd potentially be with Gwyn, and it just solidifies my belief that even though he can be nice sometimes, he is not a nice person.

If i was an omega sent to Hillview, I would be horrified to even be in the same room as him. His kindness and goodwill seem extremely conditional and feels like it could turn around any moment if someone isn't "respectful" enough. Like, he didn't like Ef talking back to him and I have a suspicion that his reaction to it would've been worse if Ef was his instead of Gary's. Temsen seems to treat patients best when they're polite, passive and obedient, which are usually trauma responses and he knows that, but (judging by his behaviour/responses) still prefers it?

I also think his cheerful bedside manner is a mask he puts on and it hides something very dark and very ugly that not even Gary and Augus possess.

As you can probably tell I have quite strong feelings about Temsen lol. Most of them not good.

Please don't take this the wrong way, these aren't judgements! I just want to express and share my feelings about him as a reader. And maybe get your thoughts as well? I would literally read an entire essay dedicated to his character to see if I could see him in a new light.

I think the fact that he's not a pov character doesn't help him much. But then you've written other non pov characters before and none of them have made me feel like this so maybe it's just a UtB Temsen thing.

If you have the time and energy to spare, I'd love and appreciate your thoughts on his character. I always love reading your responses.

Thank you

<3

This ask is almost as long as my ask responses sdlakfjsda

And my response is VERY LONG so under a cut it goes:

Okay so, first things first, by our world standards, all of the alphas in Underline the Black are rapists. All of them. Every single one we've met so far. From the kind and caring Janusz who did not in any way obtain any kind of consent before raping Nate lovingly repeated times, to Anton who might get consent from Flitmouse this time but certainly hasn't in the past during heats, to Gary who has done god knows what to alphas before abandoning them, to Caleb who does not contain full and willing consent from the omegas he fucks and certainly puts the dubious in dubcon when he's with Faber.

So let's be blunt here, if we're going to be looking at these characters from like, our personal standards, they're all rapists. All of them. Some of them are nicer and friendlier than others, but this is a world where obtaining full and lucid consent from omegas in heat is literally impossible, and where rehabilitation facilities often make choices to put the physical health of an omega (i.e. the resolution of a heat) before the emotional or psychological health (i.e. letting the omega go through unfulfilled agony just to wait until they can get true consent).

When we look at almost all omegaverse stories through this lens, almost every single character becomes a rapist and/or capable of rape. It's one of the reasons so many of us like it so much, it's so good for rape fantasy + romance, and it fulfills a lot of the roles that oldschool Mills & Boon and Bodice Ripper romance used to fulfill. A lot of 'I hate it until I love it, and now I also love you.'

One of the things omegaverse does within the universe is create a culture where everyone just accepts this as normal, because heats exist and they must be fulfilled, because they can be fatal - and certainly agonising - if they're not. This is a world that has, by and large, decided that people dying of pain has more value than obtaining real and informed consent. Believe it or not, our world is also like this sometimes. Especially around certain medical emergencies.

In the specific context you're mentioning re: Temsen admitting he would have raped Efnisien, he's making it very clear that he would have done it in response to Efnisien's physical agony due to being in heat, and he says this in a regretful way, in the tone of someone who knows he would have been wrong to do that, after literally saving Efnisien's life during surgery, and I feel like you're really cherry picking Temsen's words here to justify how you feel about him, which is awesome - you can do that!

But if you bring it to me, I'm going to show the whole sequence of dialogue to demonstrate that he had a lot of humanity around this sentiment, instead of the absence of sentiment and humanity:

'I am sorry,' Temsen said with his formal forthright way of speaking. Gary hadn't expected the apology at all. 'I've had to put Efnisien first as my patient quite a few times over the last few days, but it leaves you neglected, and I don't mean the PACS, Gary. I...am doing a terrible job of being sympathetic to your circumstances. It would be easier, I think, if your actions didn't have a direct impact on Efnisien’s welfare. It’s hard to think when he’s in agony.'  'I know.'  'I keep thinking about the pain he's grown accustomed to. I'm... And on another matter, I think I'm in the strange position of realising an alpha who's that vulnerable has a kind of appeal, if I'm being honest. I think I might see you as a rival.' Gary lifted his eyebrows to indicate what he thought of that, and Temsen laughed.  'It's not a serious rivalry,' Temsen said. Gary didn’t think it was, or he’d be unable to be relaxed about it. 'I don't want him, he's too much work. But I'm pleased to have identified why I've been in such a strange state. I think it started off as protectiveness and became that thread of: 'Here's an alpha not doing a good enough job with him, I know I'd do better.' Realistically, I'm not sure I would. I'm not as kind as you are, for a start.' 'Kind?' 'I would have fucked him as soon as I knew he was in heat,' Temsen said, smiling slowly. 'Which would have been a nightmare, given the surgery he needed for a start. You're far kinder than I am, Gary, for all that you're a small-minded, petty tyrant, when it comes to your grief.' 

So the specific piece of dialogue you're referring to, is Temsen referring to a hypothetical situation where he suspects he would have done the wrong thing, and it would have been literally 'a nightmare' (his words) and he discloses that he knows he wouldn't be as good a match to Efnisien as Gary is, and also apologises for putting Gary second because he's had to put Efnisien first due to the agony he's been in.

That's the sequence in which he discloses that he'd hypothetically have raped Efnisien.

Which, incidentally, is similar circumstances in which characters like Nate and other omegas on-site do get raped by their alphas. Nate didn't consent, couldn't consent, and would have withdrawn consent multiple times. Is Janusz regretting that? He absolutely is. Will he stop? No! That's...the trope, and it's what I love writing, and it's why Underline the Blue and Underline the Black have a black box Rape/Noncon warning - not because of the histories of these characters, but because of their current relationship.

"And the fact that forced sex would've been the first thing on his mind instead of investigating further and finding the source of the pain?"

Yeah, that's literally the job! You'll note that Nate doesn't get a medical/surgical examination by anyone before his pain / heat is solved by sex with Janusz (if you haven't read Underline the Blue yet, that's what happens). That's extremely standard. For about 99.9999% of omegas and anyone going into heat, the source of the pain is the heat. This is also happening in Underline the Gold but those chapters aren't on AO3 yet.

It would be really unusual if he did assume the pain was caused by something other than the heat. And the only reason he did consider it is that he knows Efnisien's prior medical history.

Hope you dont mind but UtB Temsen scares me.

I don't mind! It's literally canon that he scares and intimidates many of the characters, including Flitmouse, Efnisien (at times), Nate, Janusz (to a point), and Anton (at times). The threatening undercurrent is there because many characters canonically say they find him intimidating or frightening, because they have felt nauseous around him, and because of explicit canon details about things he's done in the past, as well as being extremely pragmatic about admitting to wanting to harm or kill people.

So in his mind, rape isn't ok if it's committed by other alphas (like ones at different facilities) but it's ok if he commits it?

In context of what I said above re: all alphas being rapists in this story, it's more like:

Raping maliciously to intentionally cause harm because you enjoy it isn't permissible. Raping to save someone from physiological agony, when there's no other safe way to deal with it, is. That's...why Hillview exists. They don't see it that way, because their culture is different to ours: Heats exist, and alphas exist. That radically changes the entirety of their culture.

And that's why the story is tagged as a Dystopian Universe story. Because that's dark as fuck.

And then reading some of your responses about how Temsen is with his one night stands, or how he'd potentially be with Gwyn, and it just solidifies my belief that even though he can be nice sometimes, he is not a nice person.

Yes! He says this himself! :D He knows this better than anyone and that's why among other reasons, he's not an alpha companion and he's not interested in being one.

He knows his flaws, he's the one who told you his flaws, he says canonically and more than once that he doesn't see himself as especially kind or nice, he even says it in the sequence above where he admits that he would have assaulted Efnisien. Your belief is his belief, and it's a belief he shared with the readers and has shared with other characters. This isn't something Temsen hides from, and it's also not something he indulges, that's why he's not an alpha companion.

If i was an omega sent to Hillview, I would be horrified to even be in the same room as him.

Many of them are. If you haven't read them yet, you might want to look at Underline the Gold in particular, and sections of Underline the Blue, where the omegas freely admit they find Temsen at best intimidating and overwhelming. Flitmouse comes straight out and accuses Temsen of threatening him, and Temsen baldly admits that he is. And then he keeps doing it.

That doesn't mean they still don't prefer him over the other doctors they've seen though - *points forever at the Dystopian Universe* tag. Nowhere in this story are we saying he's a good consent-focused story, but we are saying this is a fucked up world where he might be the best an omega ever gets in their life.

His kindness and goodwill seem extremely conditional and feels like it could turn around any moment if someone isn't "respectful" enough. Like, he didn't like Ef talking back to him and I have a suspicion that his reaction to it would've been worse if Ef was his instead of Gary's.

Absolutely, again, that's why Temsen isn't an alpha companion.

But also, he's a peak alpha. Gary is quite unusual in enjoying the way Efnisien talks back to him, it's so unusual for peak alphas that he basically has a kink for it at this point and it's a fetish rather than like...a realistic representation of peak alphas.

Temsen seems to treat patients best when they're polite, passive and obedient, which are usually trauma responses and he knows that, but (judging by his behaviour/responses) still prefers it?

Highly recommend you read Underline the Blue and Underline the Gold, where he actively praises omegas for standing up to him!

In this sequence, Flitmouse is defending his right to death by starvation (cw anorexia and other disordered eating) and fires up:

'I've been- But I've been eating here!' said Flitmouse. Temsen's smile was sad. 'I always love when an omega can fire up a bit more around me. I appreciate you sharing this with me. It's safe to speak your mind around me. I just selfishly wish you weren't defending your right to starve to death so passionately. I'm glad you've been eating here. Keep doing it. Try to do it a little more. That's all I'm asking.

Please don't take this the wrong way, these aren't judgements!

I mean, they are judgements :D I just don't take it the wrong way because it's normal to have strong feelings about a complex and morally grey character, and Temsen is definitely that!

In addition, a lot of what you've written out is stuff that I have explicitly written out into the story, they're things Temsen has told you / other characters about himself. He is his own biggest warning, and he is very aware of his flaws and the reality of his nature, if he desperately wanted to rape omegas, don't you think he'd have chosen to be a companion by now? He certainly could have, very easily. None of this stuff is hidden or swept away, these are things Temsen puts front and centre, and then it's up to others how much they see that or don't see it. But Temsen also puts other aspects of himself front and centre which you (and others) choose to ignore or think are false, which I think is created by the tempting trap that if someone has very awful qualities, all their good qualities must be a lie or a mask.

And that's not reflective of how complex people (and characters) really are. But it's a lot easier to deal with a character when we can sweep them into the 'I just don't like them' box or the 'I just like them and I don't see the bad stuff' box.

Temsen's good qualities are very real. He's dedicated his entire life to omega QOL improvements, and has created those tangible improvements in a dystopian universe. If he was a 'normal' peak alpha, he would have euthanased Efnisien the first day he arrived on site - maybe he would have raped him first. This is very very much a dystopian universe. I'm not going to try to convince you that he's 'good' because that's very simplistic, he does very good, and even heroic things, and he does very bad, and sometimes really awful things. These are just facts about him. And then it's up to other people to decide where their line is re: liking him or not.

In fact of all the characters we've met, Janusz has raped someone on the page and Gary has (re: Efnisien), we know Anton has historically for work, and Augus.

The only significant alpha who hasn't ever done this to omegas is actually Temsen.

The most important thing to me personally is that all Temsen has told you so far is speculative. He speculates that he would have raped Efnisien, but he actually saves his life. He speculates that he's not very kind, and then puts Efnisien first and sacrifices sleep for him to find articles that will make him more comfortable. (I would tender here that you're believing his hypotheticals over his repeated actions) He doesn't tolerate disrespect from an alpha, because that's how alpha rapists are created (he is stern with Efnisien because he's an alpha, because alphas who are allowed to disrespect others become like Gwyn or Christian or Vadim), but he accepts it often from omegas, who are vulnerable and need to learn how to speak up.

That's what's important to me! But I also think he's a dick, lol, and I like that about him. I don't need a character to be good or pure to love the shit out of them, and that's how I end up writing a world where almost every alpha is a rapist to some degree, and most folks still end up giving them a pass anyway, because the stories are fun and entertaining, and these people and world's aren't real.

TL;DR: Temsen is a complex character capable of healing, heroic, cruel and controlling actions, and I think you're cherry picking certain parts of his dialogue / actions to justify how you feel about him while missing others, which is absolutely your prerogative as a reader! But honestly, if you just don't like a character, or find them too dark, you don't need a reason for it - you can just not like 'em - feelings are the most irrational things we have, after all, and often resist logical justification. :D I'm not really trying to change your mind here tbh, feelings are feelings, but I am the kind of person who will point out the inconsistencies in a discussion, especially when invited to sdlkfjsa

[ledenews]

Shadyside Schools to Benefit from Cracker Project

Residents of the Upper Ohio Valley have been thirsting for some semblance of good news, and it may have just arrived in Shadyside. Citizens of Shadyside learned this morning officials with the Shadyside School District are finally allowed to share a secret they had been keeping for quite some time. In short, money—$38 million to be exact—will be infused into the district as soon as PTT Global Chemical makes its official announcement of the proposed ethane cracker in Dilles Bottom. “Today was the first day I was allowed to talk about it,” said John Haswell, superintendent for the Shadyside district. “This is something we’ve been working on for six years. This was one of the last steps in the process. The final investment announcement will come hopefully in June, and at that point; everything will be official.” The district will receive a total of $38 million in the deal, spread out across 19 years. There will be four payments made during the construction phase and the remaining 15 once the site is operational. What that will mean for the district is a new, Pre-K through 12 school building for starters. “We do have plans. We’re looking at a brand new building for the district. There are also plans to retrofit part of the high school and turn it into a STEM academy. It’s quite a vision.” Haswell said once the announcement becomes official, school district leaders will navigate a year’s worth of community envisioning during the process, getting insight from residents and making the school into exactly what suits the district’s students best.

A portion of Shadyside High will be retrofitted to become a STEM academy, greatly enhancing the district's science and technology offerings.

Location, Location, Location

Haswell explained the district already has a site in mind for the new building. “We’re looking at the Leona property up by the athletic facilities,” Haswell said. “We’re also in the process of getting Hillview Park back from the village, and we can incorporate a lot of different things up there as well.” Haswell said the district has a roughly $60 million framework its devised so far and is expecting input from the public to help fill in the substance for the plans. He wants to get started on soliciting that input as soon as the announcement is final. PTT Global and business partner Daelim Construction have spent more than $300 million on the Dilles Bottom location to date for a proposed $10 billion facility that would utilize natural gas to produce plastic pellets for the plastics industry. More than 6,000 individuals would assist with construction, and then as many as 700 employees would operate the plant. The potential for downstream companies to follow is very high, according to industry experts. Although Haswelll was informed the announcement likely is coming in June, the stoppage ordered for the petrochemical plant project in Beaver County, Pa., will likely delay the construction in Dilles Bottom. How long depends on the length of time it takes to re-start construction in Potter Township. “Hopefully it’s only a three-month waiting period and, once finalized, we can start the process and get financing for the project,” Haswell said. “Hopefully, with a year or so of visioning and a two-year construction period, three or four years from now, maybe five, 3-4, maybe five years, we’ll be looking at a brand new facility among other things.”

The iconic loop is a fixture of downtown Shadyside.

Dollars and Sense

Haswell said Shadyside would be eligible for a grant from the Ohio Facilities Construction Commission (OFCC) to build the new building. The grant would cover 77 percent through the state, and the district then would need to provide the remaining 23 percent. “The only problem right now is that money is so far down the list, but we’re working on getting it done and that money could finance the entire Pre-K through 12 building,” Haswell said. “There are a lot of opportunities.” Shadyside is currently ranked 134th statewide in the funding eligibility listings for Fiscal Year 2020. The school district isn’t the only entity set to benefit from PTT Global Chemical’s investment plans. Mead Township will receive $9.5 million, while Belmont County will collect more than $20 million in sales tax revenue. Read the full article

[not-poignant]

Hi Pia!

I hope you are resting and getting the time you need. Please answer this on your own time, no rush from me. Go nap and sit in the sunshine and have a nice walk.

Apologies if this has been asked before. I’m just starting my first re read of FFS and am so impressed, first by your writing/character development, and then second by the huge change in Ef from the beginning to the end of FFS. How long is that? Less than a year? Do you think is this the most improvement or development Efnisien has undergone in his treatment, in this short period of time we get to know him? I know Dr. Gary remarks that the work Efnisien has done is noteworthy, but I’m curious about the work Ef did in the those 3 years before FFS. Just improvements of a different kind?

thank you kindly!

Hi anon!

and then second by the huge change in Ef from the beginning to the end of FFS. How long is that?

I don't know exactly! I don't generally track timelines. I think it's close to but not quite a year.

But there's time skips and other chapters that are told quite close together, so I don't actually know.

Do you think is this the most improvement or development Efnisien has undergone in his treatment, in this short period of time we get to know him?

This one's hard to quantify.

I feel like Dr Gary would say it's the period of time that has the most obvious quality of life breakthroughs, but that every period of time was significant, because each one was so vitally important.

Getting Efnisien to start talking to another therapist again, within Hillview, a place he was sexually assaulted, and to another therapist, when he was sexually assaulted by a therapist, is itself a huge, massive breakthrough on its own. Nothing could happen without that. And while it took 'longer' chronologically and might not look as momentous to us, I think for a character like Dr Gary, he knows that moment took so much bravery and courage from Efnisien, amongst his abject terror and hatred, that he still probably gets a pang in his chest when he thinks about this non-verbal kid who goes from complete mutinous frightened silence, to one day just starting to talk again.

And I'm sure if I'd written all of that in the style of FFS, it actually would have felt like Efnisien was having a lot of different kinds of breakthroughs even back then - to sit in the same room as Dr Gary, to storm out less, to reflect on the possibility of opening up again, to swim through the worst of his intrusive thoughts to try and see a point in fighting for himself again etc.

I think what Dr Gary finds so surprising about the course of Efnisien's treatment in general is how fast all of it has gone, and how committed Efnisien has been to it. Like, yes, Efnisien experiences a lot of growth in a short period of time, but that's because he did a lot of growth in the years preceding as well.

It's hard to quantify overall. The changes Efnisien makes in FFS matter the most to us and seem the most momentous because we're with him during those changes, and because they positively impact his quality of life the most. But I suspect Dr Gary would be more cautious about saying it's the year he had 'the most' growth, so I'm going to be cautious today too. :D

I know Dr. Gary remarks that the work Efnisien has done is noteworthy, but I’m curious about the work Ef did in the those 3 years before FFS. Just improvements of a different kind?

You can actually see the kind of work that Dr Gary and Efnisien were doing together previously in Efnisien's flashbacks to those sessions, or when he recollects those sessions. You'll notice when you reread that there's actually quite a lot of times where Efnisien thinks back to his early sessions in Hillview with Dr Gary, and how they progressed from him being non-verbal, to him eventually starting to talk but being very angry and hostile, to him learning that talking is actually worthwhile.

So in a way, the answers will be there when you reread! If you missed them the first time, hopefully you can enjoy them the second time. :D

[not-poignant]

Hey! I got into your work recently, with Falling Falling Stars (which I adore!!), and quickly jumped into Underline the Black. I was shocked to see Dr. Gary shift to being the main love interest, but I was engaged in seeing this new dynamic with him and Efnisien. Two questions: 1. Gary feels like a different character than in FFS, and I'm wondering what were the sprouts in character traits in FFS tht you expanded in UtB? 2.What would Arden be like in UtB? (Srry if u've answered b4)

Hi anon!

I'm so glad you enjoyed Falling Falling Stars! Funny fact about that, my beta and I actually shipped Gary and Efnisien really hard in the first few chapters, but I knew they weren't end-game and it had to stay professional, so we kind of back-burnered it for over year and then Underline the Black was born.

So we actually saw the huge, huge potential for chemistry even then. Some of the readers did too, and there are actually some comments in the first and second chapters where Dr Gary is present, where people talk about their chemistry and/or shipping them. And some continue to do so as the story goes on!

As for the sprouts, I genuinely feel there are far more similarities between Dr Gary from FFS and Gary from UtB than differences, so I'll just start listing em out.

Both doctors of niche psychology that most psychologists don't really want to go into and/or specialise in.

Both CEOs of Hillview

Both controlling in their personal lives

Both extremely private people who reveal almost nothing about their personal life by preference (this is not just Dr Gary's job in FFS, he's the same with Mika in The Moon is Down).

Both familiar with BDSM and kink

Both enjoy prodding and poking at a person and even deliberately provoking discomfort in them verbally.

Both enjoy trouble-shooting complex issues, but sometimes have significant blind spots and/or become so focused on one thing they miss another.

Both are quick to apologise when they recognise they've done something wrong, and naturally seek to repair a situation

Both are semi-competitive with their colleagues, but also friendly with them.

Both are highly professional, and will use that professionalism as a front to hide their true feelings about a situation.

Both feel extremely strong bursts of empathy or compassion.

Both have a golden retriever named Polly (Efnisien tries to break the glass in the photo of Polly in FFS - this is the scene where Gary says it's Perspex).

Both have practice dealing with volatile situations and people.

Both enjoy topping / dominating others in the bedroom (though they do have other styles, the biggest departure is here, because Gary is a peak alpha in one story and just a tired person in the other).

Both overwork extremely and;

Both need Efnisien to learn how to work more realistic hours for their health.

Both are friends with Henton (and are betrayed by him)

Both prefer structured forms of support rather than spontaneously reaching out for support, though Dr Gary in FFS is more mature here than Gary in UtB is.

Both dress the same way

Both have the same style of talking, and the same way of framing thoughts when they speak.

Both dislike disruptions to their personal life.

Both are very zen about the fact that 'bad things happen in the world' which gives them an unusually large capacity to work in fields where other mental health professionals often don't want to work (omega rehabilitation sciences for Gary in UtB and aberrant juvenile psychology in FFS)

Both have a laconic and dry sense of humour and are not frequently prone to outbursts of emotion or laughter.

Despite being quite 'closed in' on the surface, both can be quite transparent about their emotional state, but not often in a very labile way. So they will calmly state they are sad while feeling sad, instead of tearfully stating it.

I could go on and on and on anon, but to me, you can see that I pretty much see the main departure as being purely biological/hormonal re: Gary being a peak alpha and the changes that have had to happen along that strata.

Otherwise to me, they are both very much Gary!

As for Arden, I suspect he'd be a beta dominant probably living the same kind of life he's living now in FFS!

[not-poignant]

“I’m sure part of you wants to follow in their footsteps” holy shit temsen does not hold back 💀 it’s true though!! ef wants to have power and the people who have had power over him have been callous and cruel. but he has to unlearn those patterns aaauGh i love reading about ef learning how to be a person again in every universe

Temsen does not hold back. Though to be fair, he'd kind of snapped at that point and delivered a much more reasonable (though still very stern) lecture before that.

The fact is, Efnisien has been domestically violent, and he's been abusive. Gary acts so permissive of it that in some ways we all do, but it is an act of domestic violence to destroy someone's loved items, knowing it will hurt them. You don't have to hit someone to be a domestically violent abuser, and Efnisien has a lot of different methods covered.

I find this kind of path really interesting. Efnisien's not really learned better because of his upbringing and he needs to be expected to do better at the same time. In many respects, that's not fair. He's not being given time to process what was done to him, while being expected to step up in Hillview, which is a place where he was abandoned by his family.

I think it will be quite a divisive chapter, frankly. My sympathies are actually very much with Efnisien, but the story could not afford to be soft to him in that moment. Part of his growth journey is well, growing, and learning to take responsibility for his actions. So I think some people will feel that Temsen (and me by association) are being very unfair or even mean to Efnisien.

I'm also okay with that. I think some people will also take Gary's side. And some folks won't take any sides. It's a tense series of chapters, that's for sure!

These boys aren't perfect, but they're getting there.

[not-poignant]

your whole world in Underline the Rainbow seems incredibly well fleshed out, down to the thought of what dietary needs alphas would have in comparison to omegas. Is there any omegaverse fiction that inspired the world of Hillview? Are there any fics/original fiction in the omegaverse that you particularly enjoy? Your interpretation of it has been my favorite that I’ve ever read, so I’d love to know what you draw from and what you enjoy reading in that world. I can’t wait for more Underline the Blue, I can tell that it’s going to tear me into teeny tiny confetti sized pieces and then put me back together again - janusz and nate already have my whole heart

(Also I hope that whatever is going on in your life resolves quickly and easily and with the best possible outcome - it seems like you’ve been through hell lately, I hope things get easier for you soon <3)

Hi anon!

The worldbuilding is so fleshed out in the Underline the Rainbow series because I just outright stole some of it from my other original omegaverse series, my published Perth Shifter e-books Blackwood and The Gentle Wolf (you can see those on the first pinned post on my Tumblr).

And I spent like...quite some time actually - like hours and hours - doing the kind of research I've never seen in most of the omegaverse stories I've read. I dove down pretty deeply into hormonal research, before inventing unique hormones (ardolphogen, larentin etc.) - even giving them the same suffixes as known hormones - for alphas, betas and omegas to distinguish them physiologically, so I could at least make a pretence at dealing with the medical side of things re: suppressants and health matters.

What I actually haven't included in Underline the Rainbow is all the historical research I did for Perth Shifters. Because in Perth Shifters, as the name implies, the characters are wolf shifters, and there are also humans who aren't alpha/beta/omega in that universe. So some of it wouldn't apply.

There's no one omegaverse work that inspires me. I'd say I've read literally hundreds of them now - in original publishing, in fanfiction, in manwha and manga. What I actually really love about it is that quite a few of us appreciate the chance to do some unique or different things with the standards of the genre, which means I can do stuff that people have seen before (knotting, heats), but that I can also do stuff that no one has done before (no one has given omegaverse folk the names for the hormones that I did, for example).

When it comes to details like the dietary needs (more fat for omegas, more protein for alphas etc.) I literally made that up on the fly. No thought went into that beyond 'shit that sounds good.'

But what goes into being able to do this is simply that I'm an avid learner of just about everything. I know a little about hormones already because I have a hormonal cancer. I know a little about nutrition and digestion already because I have an eating disorder and see a dietitian. These kinds of things are often in the back of my mind (along with decades of research into things like PTSD, or biology, or ecosystems and ecosystem management, or...the difference between grass fires and tree fires and the heats they burn at and how to survive either, etc.) I am filled with a repository of knowledge that is often useless in my day to day, but comes in handy when I'm writing.

So while I improvised the nutritional differences on the fly, I didn't do it with no knowledge behind it, I just didn't need to stop and research it at the time. It pays to read like over a thousand non-fiction books on literally any subject, y'know? That shit is so helpful for improvised worldbuilding.

The reality, anon, is that I'm drawing way, way more from research into science than I am from other omegaverse stories for these specific kinds of worldbuilding. Spending hours reading books and Wiki articles on hormones for example, has done way more for my omegaverse worldbuilding than any fics/stories I've read. Which probably sounds pretty weird, but most of the extra worldbuilding in this comes from science and resembles more of the work you'd put into science fiction or even hard science fiction worldbuilding, than it does from...reading other books in the genre?

Because frankly most omegaverse stories don't focus on this stuff. And also, a lot of the omegaverse I've read is pretty much straight-up smut, lmao. Which I love. Let's face it, a lot of folks are here for the knotting and the heats. :D And I love that! But I also love...worldbuilding (both in advance and on the fly, lol).

I will say that Leta Blake's omegaverse work has some pretty awesome cultural worldbuilding that I've not seen before. Mine isn't based on hers, and a heads up that there's mpreg, including literally 'sex while the baby is inside and the person feels the baby moving through their dick' which is like...very much past my line of what I like reading lmao. But the worldbuilding itself in Slow Heat and Alpha Heat is pretty awesome. She often does unconventional omegaverse dynamics, such as older omega / younger alpha with significant age gap, or alpha / alpha, etc. I would definitely say that I admire her worldbuilding, even though I don't base mine on hers. (Hers is a world where women no longer exist at all, for example, with religious and cultural lore that springs up around this and the duties that then apply to omegas and alphas to procreate in a fairly extreme dystopian setting where the mortality rates for omegas re: childbirth are shockingly high and being afraid of dying during childbirth is extremely normal/appropriate).

The Big Bad Wolf series by Charlie Adara also has some pretty cool worldbuilding (though not nearly as deep as Blake's, also no mpreg), which features a human/alpha pairing. Also it's romantic suspense which is just an awesome genre overall.

Also, there's more Underline the Blue coming on AO3 this month! And also more coming on Patreon too! This is definitely an Underline the Blue month. :D

[not-poignant]

pia pia! ive finally sat down and binged UtB and!! i am!! obsessed!!! literally been rotisserie chicken rotating the concept in my head for a full day now - i was hoping youd be willing to expand a bit more on the worldbuilding of hillview/facilities in this au? what exactly is the end goal of these centers and how do they gen go about achieving that, understanding that hv does things diff than most (? presumably) ? thank you for putting out yet another story to live in my head, rent free <3

Hi anon!

Some of this stuff has been answered in the story already, so I'm going to pull some quotes so it might look a bit clearer when put together.

From chapter 1:

Rehabilitation centres only existed for omegas, organisations run by alphas to retrain omegas to be the perfect, subservient husbands or the best children to present at Omega Confirmations. Rehabilitation centres were generally only used by affluent families or spouses because they were expensive, because no one bothered investing in retraining omegas from the lower classes unless they were acquired by an affluent alpha in the first place. The nurse made it sound like Efnisien was going to be paired with a nice, sweet guy, but Efnisien knew Kadek was an alpha, and being ‘paired’ with him meant being fucked and tortured into behaving himself.

From chapter 4 (Dr Gary's POV):

He cared about the reputation of his facility, and he cared that he was introducing a new model of omega rehabilitation and companionship that was highly respected, but he didn’t care about individual omegas much beyond knowing Hillview had a good success rate, and positive reviews from the omegas themselves.

And:

You’ve dedicated yourself to helping reintegrate omegas into society.

And from Crielle:

‘Do you know? He doesn’t even have a birth certificate,’ Crielle said softly, and then she laughed again. ‘No one would ever know, either way, no matter what you decide to do with him. You have all that land spare, after all, I’m sure it’s something centres have to do on occasion. We might consider taking him back if you can make him a presentable omega in high society, but if you’re not confident, do whatever it is you must. With the exception of wasting any more of my valuable time with these pointless questions. Have a lovely evening, Dr Konowalous.’

From chapter 5:

‘If you try and fuck me, I’ll kill you,’ Efnisien said, steeling himself to scowl at Dr Gary. ‘I’ll kill you. I’ll kill everyone here.’ Dr Gary’s expression was faintly perplexed, but Efnisien was sure Dr Gary was putting it on. ‘Don’t fucking pretend that’s not what you do to omegas,’ Efnisien snarled. ‘Of course it’s necessary to help omegas through heats,’ Dr Gary said as though he couldn’t be less interested in the subject. ‘It assists bonding. But there’s no point in doing it now. I can’t see how it’s going to be functional or useful at this juncture.’ ‘I know you think you’re being clever, trying to use this whole bait-and-switch thing to get me dependent on you, before breaking me, but it’s not going to work.’

From chapter 7:

All omegas received an internal exam ideally before their first heat. Testing the health of the lare glands was important, and one of the ways they could be sure an omega had developed well and was biologically ready for heats. But the internal exam was put off until the omega at least had some kind of bond with their alpha. Sometimes it took months before it was performed, and in the case of Alois Flitmouse, it had taken almost half a year and two half-completed traumatic heats before he’d even allow one under sedation. Internal exams were invasive. In almost every other rehabilitation centre, they were performed as early as possible, and omegas were restrained and sedated or paralysed, but Hillview had never operated this way. They avoided restraints wherever possible, and barely had the facilities to isolate omegas. The whole architectural structure of the facility was designed to be homely, which was starkly apparent when they realised they had almost nowhere to safely put Efnisien after he'd attacked Kadek. And now they’d have to operate more like one of the barbaric facilities where the internal exams were done immediately. They couldn’t sedate him safely to make him unconscious during the actual procedure, but Gary didn’t think they could afford to wait, either.

From chapter 9:

‘So you can’t go home, and you can’t leave under your own steam,’ Anton said. ‘Why don’t you at least stay until you’re stabilised? It’ll be easier to negotiate then, and maybe your family will be open to taking you back. I know I make it sound like a question, but the fact is, that is your only option. It’s not what you want, which sucks, and I’m going to talk to Dr Gary about some stuff after all of this, because he’s shit at being a companion, isn’t he? But aside from that, you have to come back with me, we have to go back. At some point. Maybe in another few minutes.’ ‘So you’re the fuckhead who manipulates people but in a nice tone of voice,’ Efnisien said dully. ‘You still rape omegas.’ Anton stared up at the canopy for a long time. ‘If you weren’t so dangerous, I’d get you to talk to Flitmouse. But I don’t think he’d like you very much anyway. And, honestly, with how some of the rehab facilities run, what can I say? It happens. Omegas get raped.’ ‘Here too. Just because you brainwash them into thinking it’s what they want, or their heats take their ability to know their minds away, doesn’t mean you don’t rape them. You get paid to do that. Paid. I hope one of them kills you in your sleep. But it’s not like an omega to do that, is it? So maybe I have to.’

From chapter 10:

‘You medically raped him within 24 hours and you’re telling me you don’t need a supervisor? Do you remember any of the protocols you wrote up for us? For this facility? What about the shit that you’ve toured around the world, to all these different conferences? All these protocols you recommend for ground-breaking omega rehab centres? You remember any of that?’ ‘Anton,’ Gary said darkly, and he expected Anton to back down, instead Anton planted his feet and his posture stiffened. ‘You need a supervisor,’ Anton said, his eyes flashing. ‘And if it can’t be Temsen, and it’s not Augus, then it might as well be me. Because you need to report to someone. You’re not a manager, right now, Dr Gary. You’re a companion. Like it or not, that’s what you are! You have a basic but challenging job right now, which is to make a scared omega feel safe and validated. And instead you keep doing the opposite! Over and over again. Like, tell me I’m lying, did you tell him he’d be raped to death in a prison?’

Okay I'm going to stop there because this post got long.

So! From all of this: Omega rehabilitation centres are places where omegas are sent by affluent people essentially to be 'broken' and made compliant by being forced to bond with an alpha (including rape), mate with them, create a sense of dependence, and essentially trained into a more compliant version of themselves that is more submissive to the wishes of the people around them.

And that Hillview differs by offering a new type of rehabilitation that still requires bonding with alphas (as well as removing them from abusive situations), but is generally more patient on the mating front, and has good reviews from omegas so far and has a good success rate (i.e. pleased clients - husbands/families that sent the omega there in the first place).

I hope that helps. :D

We can also make some assumptions so far re: Hillview. They have caterers and cooks on site and Gary has been concerned with getting Efnisien not just food, but tasty food - indicating they're a facility that isn't into starving omegas or feeding them poor quality food. They let bonding happen over a period of time instead of rushing into rape so they care a bit more about consent than the average rehab centre.

Bonding obviously requires a lot of close contact, because when we've seen Anton and Augus, both have almost always by referring to the fact that their omega is worried and needs them and/or needs to be checked up on. And since it's rich families and spouses that send omegas to these facilities, 'graduating' an omega we can assume to mean is sending them either back to a spouse, family, or arranging a new partner/relationship for them.

Beyond that I don't know what you're looking for anon, I'm not like...going to write a complete curriculum on say 'retraining' because that's Dr Gary's job (mine is to just tell the story asldkfas), and it changes based on the omega anyway. :D But if there's anything else feel free to ask! I'm not going to go into too much detail though re: a structured teaching program say, because I want Efnisien (and therefore the reader) to find out as we do.

[not-poignant]

Thanks for answering my ask about Arden’s POV! Makes total sense. Totally different style question, but in your opinion will Gwyn and Ef be able to come together again in the far future and have a relationship of some sort with heavy boundaries, or will it be better for them to not ever speak again? I could see it both ways so I am curious. Anyway thanks for writing! FFS has become a comfort fic for me as a “bad” ocd haver…

Hi hi

Yes! Actually that's very much what I imagine (that they do meet up again in the future). The reason Efnisien cut Gwyn off now was, in many ways, so that they could have some kind of connection in the future.

If things continued as they were now they would have never learned how to be healthy together. For a start, Gwyn had zero accountability for his own actions, because anything toxic he did, he threw under the 'you started it' bus. Which is not useful to, well, anyone. Even Gwyn. Gwyn's only going to learn that accountability with better therapy, and some time to actually process his childhood and what he experienced.

Likewise, Efnisien needs to learn how to respect himself around folks like Gwyn, and how to stand up for himself and his boundaries healthily. Gwyn violated his boundaries literally every single visit they ever had, and even the times Efnisien did weakly try to stand up for himself, Gwyn consistently and repeatedly ignored him. It's safe to say that was happening for years before this story started. So Efnisien certainly needs to learn to a) stand up for himself more firmly around Gwyn and b) walk away with a strong 'if you keep treating me like this you do not get my presence, period' if Gwyn ignores him.

I do think they can get there with time (a significant amount of time, like a decade or two). I think especially once Efnisien doesn't need Gwyn in any shape or form, and Gwyn has sort of learned some perspective on how he wants to treat people in general, including people that treated him badly (i.e. if he wants to go down the path of Lludd, which he's tentatively done already (Gwyn is, actually, extremely violent, and attempted to murder Efnisien, and did not stop himself - but was stopped by Augus), or if he actually wants to develop a personal ethical code, which Efnisien is lightyears ahead of vs. him - largely because of choices Efnisien was forced to make, and Hillview).

Honestly I like to imagine that one day they do meet, and Efnisien has pet dogs (or a pet dog) of his own, and as soon as Gwyn looks at them like 'oh god what are you doing to them' Efnisien's like 'right, see ya!' because he's just not going to put up with that anymore after the years and years and years of hard work he's done on himself. And then at their second meeting, Gwyn is much better lmao, and he actually gets to know Efnisien as a person, and they start figuring out a new path forward together. :)

[not-poignant]

That last ffs chapter was perfect! Didnt realize just how bad Efs therapist triggered PTSD was and reading the part where he gets scared and starts stuttering got me in the heart. And Dr Gary handling it so well! telling him his hands are important! It kinda reminded me of Ef feeling like his hands weren’t important when Arden first tied them up. And also when Arden told him his hands were perfect. Can’t wait to read this one over and over again!

I’m so glad you enjoyed it!

And yeah, Efnisien’s PTSD that’s triggered re: Henton has been present in almost every session since the beginning actually, it’s just not been very ‘eventful’ in some cases and it’s a lot more subtle (which, frankly, a lot of PTSD is, which is why it’s easy for people to have it to kind of ‘forget’ about it even when it’s ruling their lives). But from... never wanting to touch Dr Gary’s hands, and being hesitant about handing things to him, to thinking that Dr Gary is lying to him because Henton said something different, it’s always kind of been lurking. I could probably point out several places in each therapy session where Efnisien has behaved in a certain way because of Henton-related trauma.

Efnisien’s had two pretty major meltdowns around Mika now, and that’s pushing too close to a pattern for Dr Gary’s liking, so they’ll never have a joint session with the three of them in that office again. If/when Efnisien sees Mika again, it will be a pretty different scenario, and Dr Gary and Efnisien will probably talk a lot about it first.

It’s funny, I think Dr Gary handled it as well as he could given the circumstances, but he made some big mistakes. Aside from creating the environment where this could happen in the first place, he also initially threatened Efnisien with Hillview or a hospital to get him to comply with them while standing and crowding him and being a direct trigger, which is actually not a great thing to do with someone in general, let alone someone who’s self-harming (it’s why he back-pedalled pretty firmly on this, with both apologies, and then reminding Efnisien that it’s perfectly understandable to self-harm when he feels he had no other option left to him - a situation Dr Gary created, and then compounded. Like Dr Gary apologised for a lot of stuff in that session, and he was right to).

Dr Gary has a very pushy style that wouldn’t actually suit a lot of clients. And he took a risk and it did not pay off during that session, because he wasn’t assessing the situation properly. I think sometimes - at least rarely - he can get lax with Efnisien because Efnisien is an ‘easy’ client for him. But easy doesn’t always mean that he doesn’t need some vigilance and gentle handling from time to time.

So while I’m happy that Dr Gary recovered really well, he really did kind of set the situation up to be a perfect storm in the first place. I think he was repeating to himself ‘this is an opportunity, this is an opportunity’ a fair few times in that session, lmao, which is what he reminds himself when something goes wrong and he realises he’s fucked up. But I don’t think he’s going to get Efnisien’s expression and words out of his head any time soon when Efnisien straight up reacted to him like he was Henton and started begging him not to touch him. But that’s why Dr Gary has his own therapist.

I feel bad for Mika though. So much of Efnisien’s feelings around his sexuality and his submission are directly tied to aspects of his past. I think he would have been submissive anyway, even without Crielle, but he doesn’t have that meta in his own head - all he knows is that he was raised to behave a certain way, and now he’s behaving that way around Arden sometimes, and he doesn’t know what that means about him as a person. There’s very few subjects that Mika and Efnisien can safely cover without directly stepping through the minefield that is Efnisien’s past. I honestly think Efnisien was charging headlong into a serious meltdown before Dr Gary even came back in the room and tipped him over.

I think we can see how disturbed Efnisien was at the end of the session by the fact that he was really resistant to being calmed down. Like, he changed the subject several times when Dr Gary started encouraging him to think and talk about Stupidhead. Efnisien wasn’t ready to be coaxed away from that emotional upset, and it’s a sign that he’s not really that stable right now. Like Dr Gary did his best, and they did have a good conversation, but Efnisien really wasn’t ready to leave at the end of that session. I think that’s the first time we’ve seen him really hesitate and stay back to try and grab a few more minutes with Dr Gary at the end of a session, though some of that is because he’s resistant to seeing doctors, but some of it is...he’s very upset, and he didn’t find the equilibrium he usually finds after a session. And that’s a pretty big neon sign that Dr Gary messed that one up. But hey, as he says, he’s only human - therapists make mistakes, and they are opportunities.

Part of therapy is learning how to enter the rupture-repair cycle safely. Which is that - something happens where you’re upset at something the therapist has done (or vice versa) and that creatures a rupture. But ruptures always lead to opportunities to repair. And some of the strongest relationships and friendships in the world are the ones that have a healthy rupture-repair cycle. But this rupture has not yet been fully repaired, which I think Dr Gary recognises by his suggesting that they talk further about the way he can support and help Efnisien when he starts regressing or seeing Dr Gary as Henton specifically.

(I’m thinking about it, I do think Dr Gary’s pushy style actually suits Efnisien a lot of the time! Because it gives/affords Efnisien opportunities to have an anger response, feel his anger, realise that he doesn’t like what someone else has said, and do something about it. And a lot of the time he responds and vocalises that anger safely. Like, yes, he’s rude about it, but for the most part, when he feels safe enough, he will tell Dr Gary that he thinks he’s mean, and that gives them a further opportunity to talk about that, and for Dr Gary to apologise, or course correct, or explain himself - and that teaches Efnisien that pointing out when he’s been hurt by someone doesn’t always have to lead to catastrophe - so in that sense, it’s really crucial to this stage of Efnisien’s development. When it works, anyway).

God I’m rambling salkdfja