#and all of it’s gonna be the most platonic and maybe queerplatonic thing you’ll ever see

[rabbittush]

I love everyone, and i wanna hug and kiss them on the cheek and maybe on the mouth and I wanna feel good and happy and piss of a bigot ‘cause I’m so fucking SICK of it all

[bumblingbabooshka]

Dynamics within the Chakotay/Janeway/Tuvok Dynamic

Janeway/Chakotay Enemies to Lovers: This doesn’t last long but it’s still there  Friends to Lovers: Sometimes you’re laughing with your friend and look over and realize they’re the most beautiful person you’ve ever seen. Forbidden Love: From the Maquis thing and the fact that she’s the captain and I guess the fact that she’s engaged to Mark would be a barrier earlier on in the show.  Pining/Slowburn: This ship burned so slow it’s not even boiling in the actual show What are We?: They both like each other and know they like each other and know the other one knows they like each other but they aren’t dating. Everyone Knows: Every single person on Voyager is keeping their eye on this Sunshine Guy: Chakotay can always make her smile...get a lil laugh out of her We’re Not So Different You and I: They’re both leaders who would put their lives on the line to protect their crew, even if their leadership styles are different. More of an early-seasons trope Enamored at First Sight: This seems like something that’d fit them, I seem to remember them getting along very quickly Dump Him: Chakotay being better than Mark in almost every way seems like a trope that could be used here...like, Mark not being a bad guy by any means but hoo-wee Chakotay just blows him out of the water ___________________ Chakotay/Tuvok Enemies to Lovers: This would be a true enemies-to-lovers arc both due to the betrayal and because early on Chakotay seems to find Tuvok generally just annoying as a person (and the feeling is mutual) I Trusted You: The whole spying-on-you thing’s gonna be a whole ordeal, huh I Trusted You (but with romantic intent): Same as above but in this scenario one or both of them developed budding little feelings for one another and the whole spying thing is gonna make that extra hard to grow back.  Oh Fuck Not This Guy: Sometimes you share an unexpected little moment with your tolerated coworker/maybe kind of friend and you look over and realize they’re the second most beautiful person you’ve ever seen. And then you scream and scream about it on the inside. Forbidden Love: From the Maquis thing, potentially the fact that Chakotay and Janeway are having their own little thing, and - most importantly - Tuvok’s absolute devotion towards his wife.  Pining/Slowburn: Because of all of the above. Mr.Steal-Your-Girl?: Tuvok being slightly too close to Janeway for Chakotay to view their relationship as purely platonic but not so close that he can determine for sure that it’s romantic is a potential something that I personally think about a lot. You’ll Never Be Her: Tuvok and Chakotay being together but each being primarily in love with someone else (T’Pel, Janeway) is also something I think about a lot. Get Along Shirt: Sometimes your sort of maybe girlfriend wants you to get along with her best friend and it works a little too well (or maybe the perfect amount)  Rebel With A Cause: Sometimes the romantic type you thought you grew out of as a rebellious teenager comes alive. Seriously though, Chakotay being a kindhearted rebel labelled as a criminal who believes in what he does is something that teen Tuvok would have found so attractive and I can imagine him hating that some part of him veryveryvery deep down...still finds it a little attractive. The Man The Myth The Legend: These two will make up anything and say it’s ancient wisdom or a Vulcan thing Coworkers to Friends to Enemies to Coworkers to Friends to Lovers: It’s complicated ___________________ Tuvok/Janeway Forbidden Love: She’s the captain, and they both have canonical spouses (I know she and Mark are engaged but that’s as good as married for this trope) A Tried and True Tradition: She’s the captain and he’s the Vulcan What are We?: A sort of queerplatonic vibe from these two Unrequited Love: But if you’re in the mood for angst I’m getting a real ‘doomed romance’ vibe from these two Friends to Lovers: They’ve known each other for decades  Enemies to Friends: The very first thing Tuvok did upon meeting Janeway was scold her in front of superior officers Not Like Other Humans: Tuvok having a difficult, frustrating time with humans leading to him quitting Starfleet would probably lead to him not really liking humans that much but then when he comes back there’s Janeway and at first she probably seems much like the others he’s encountered (hence the scolding) but then...something happens.. Ugh Not This Guy: Sometimes you share an unexpected little moment with a reckless human or a guy who embarrassed you in front of superior officers and you realize oh no you actually like them a lot I Need You: They rely on one another for guidance, support and comfort. Especially during trying times like being blasted into mystery space with death approaching fast and often. They’re also the only ones on the ship’s starfleet side who have known each other pre-canon.  I’ll Never Be Her: Janeway 1000% knows T’Pel (is probably good friends with her) and has seen firsthand Tuvok’s love for her and I think that would ratchet the angst up so high No Longer Needed: Tuvok watching Janeway and Chakotay grow closer and seeing her come to rely more on Chakotay for matters both personal and professional. You Like Him Don’t You?: Janeway @ Tuvok or Tuvok @ Janeway but it’s always about Chakotay. Oh my God just tell him already please this is painful ___________________ Chakotay/Janeway/Tuvok Three Braincells: I just like the trope of three very intelligent people who usually are so responsible and calm finally being able to let loose and bounce around one another. There’s usually a voice of reason but who that is rotates. Old Hollywood: There’s just something so old Hollywood about the three of them and I don’t know if I can explain it. Forbidden Love: Literally anything about this could be forbidden Men Get Pegged: Self explanatory Get in Loser: Tuvok is getting forced to a party Go the Fuck to Sleep: Chakotay dragging the two of them to bed...they work too much. This also applies to just general rest, not necessarily sleeping. What are We?: This could get complicated depending on your specific brand of loving angst.  I Hate Your Boyfriend: Depending on your specific brand of loving angst this applies to the Tuvok/Chakotay ship even if they’re both sort of dating Janeway It’s an Inside Joke: Imagine dating two people who’ve known each other for decades. You Did What?: Imagine dating two people who the universe just loves to fuck with. Little Miss ‘Died but Got Better’ and Mr ‘Sure I’ll Mindmeld With You’ We Look like a Couple...of Besties: I can hear Janeway saying something along these lines when asked if she’s dating either Chakotay or Tuvok Not if it’s You: Chakotay’s the only one who’s demonstrated an affinity for grander gestures (Giving Janeway that ring[??] in Year of Hell) so I can just imagine them wordlessly taking care of one another in practical ways...they’re all a bit older and more appreciative of smaller more helpful gestures Food as Love Language: Seska explicitly mentioned that she’s the only one who knows how to make soup the way Chakotay likes it as a seduction technique, Janeway is Miss ‘You Never Bring Me Tea...’ and Tuvok is a picky eater. Janeway can’t cook while Tuvok is very good at it, or at least at baking. Idk, I’m just thinking v_v The Crushing Weight: I love the trope of characters who have to be strong and calm and keep everyone else safe finally being able to break down with a loved one or two. There’s literally so much to break down about and only two people to do it in front of. (Though Chakotay would probably be less strict on himself than the other two) Oh He’s Got Jokes: Tuvok is funny and Chakotay’s open-mouthed in awe at him actually playing along or making a joke while Janeway’s just smirking...she knows. She’s known the whole time.

[ineffable-endearments]

Okay. Now I'm going to submit some theories about how I think Crowley and Aziraphale specifically are going to go in the future of Good Omens.

Again, this post is not really...specific theorizing about plot events. It's big-picture stuff.

With that said, this post will get a bit heavy at times, in the sense that it will contain opinions that not everyone will like. It drifted into rambling about queerbaiting and all that stuff. I'm not going to spam anyone's dashboard with drama over it, but it's very possible someone else might try. It's also not really a negative post, depending on what you want to hear, I suppose. But if you're only in the mood to read fluff today, you'll probably want to pass it up.

Oh! Also it's very long, and sexuality is discussed in a vague way that doesn't involve any story elements or body parts.

For starters, I don't think Good Omens 2 - or even 3, if that comes about - is going to have anything explicitly sexual or romantic between the two of them, where "explicit" is things like the characters giving outright definitions of their relationship or outright discussing exactly what goes on between them, either on or off-screen. I also don't think there's going to be kissing or "hooking up" (come on...that person on Twitter shouldn't have even asked). Those actions are too blatant for what Neil has already said about the series. While they technically leave some room for interpretation, they probably don't leave enough.

I DO think it's quite possible other characters will continue to define the relationship FOR them and Crowley and Aziraphale will continue to not deny it.

As far as the queerbaiting debate, "is Good Omens queerbaiting"...it's gonna depend how you define it. I always learned that queerbaiting was basically where the creators intentionally make it look like a character is gay or otherwise queer but then swap that character development out for a cis identity and hetero relationship at the end. The point is that the "bait" leads to queer audiences being actively hurt. That's the behavior that seems awful to me, and I don't see Neil and company doing that.

However, I think it's far and away the most likely option that it will be left up to interpretation whether Crowley and Aziraphale are, you know, a buddy duo or a romantic couple or some sort of ineffable queerness all their own off-screen. So if your definition of queerbaiting is "the characters seem gay to us, but homophobes can tell themselves they're not," then yes, I think that debate will follow us to our graves if we let it.

I am a cisgender, possibly straight (?? demi/bi? I might never find out) woman. There is absolutely no way I could ever tell anybody, ESPECIALLY not gay guys and nonbinary people - the people Crowley and Aziraphale tend to resemble the most - how to feel about their treatment in the story. All I can offer is that I'm one flawed individual and there are things I have the emotional capacity to handle and things I don't. Crowley and Aziraphale as both a canon construct and a fandom pairing mean an absurd amount to me, and I can't hang around in spaces where people are constantly talking about how my own interpretations of them are not enough, or how the story is written with ill intentions. I don't want to stop anybody from venting about it, but I am going to be removing myself from those situations.

I like to imagine 1990 NeilandTerry, or TerryandNeil, as a sort of two-headed God who came up with Crowley and Aziraphale, set them loose on Creation, and now are watching them get up to way more ridiculous stuff in the brains of their fans than they'd ever imagined in the first place. I like to imagine them watching, amused and bemused, as their creations fall in love in thousands of universes, and saying, "Well, we didn't specifically Plan for this, but we did promise free will."

This is psychoanalytical toward a public figure and is therefore a bit dangerous, so please take it with an entire mountain of salt, but I sometimes think perhaps Neil sees some of his and Terry's friendship in Crowley and Aziraphale, and suspect that he wants to reserve the possibility that they could be platonic because he and Terry were platonic, while at the same time leaving room for the fans to have their own interpretations, too. Because if there's one thing that comes up really frequently with Neil, it's his belief in imagination and how much stories matter to people. He can have his little corner of the universe where A and C reflect himself and Terry, and we can have...literally anything we want, as long as we're willing to extrapolate just a little bit from canon. It's not even that much extrapolation! It's just "Yes, they love each other, so what exactly does love mean to you?" and if love means kissing, well then, if we can think it, we can have it.

Given that Neil has written LGBT+ characters before, I think he has non-bigoted reasons for wanting Aziraphale and Crowley to remain undefined, and given even the small chance that those reasons may involve the grieving process for a dead friend, I believe it is unkind to argue with him about it or hold his reputation hostage over it.

With that said, do I want canon kissing/hooking up/all that stuff we put in fics? Listen, I can't deny that I do! Personally, I'd be over the moon. I'd probably be so happy I'd have to go to the hospital to get sorted out. Even the thought of it makes me giddy and light-headed, because that physicality is a part of my own experience of love.

However, there are a lot of people who would feel left behind if that happened. Ace and aro people in the fandom whose love for their friends and partners is just as strong as mine, but who are sex-repulsed or just don't want to see kissing on-screen. The loss of Crowley and Aziraphale as a pairing who are extremely easy to interpret as queerplatonic would be hurtful to them, and I do not want to see them hurt like that. I don't think Neil does, either.

So, once again, the "best for everyone" option becomes a really strong canon relationship based in both narrative function and profound affection, which has genuinely thoughtful queer undertones and leaves open the logical possibility for romantic or sexual encounters but does not insist that they must happen. People, especially fans who are super invested, tend to have an easier time imagining scenarios that take place off-screen (e.g. kissing, sex) than they have erasing scenarios that they've already seen in canon (e.g., if someone wished they could continue viewing it as an ace relationship but they were shown "hooking up"). Also, while relationships are super emotional and extremely subjective, I'd argue that in a long-term adult partnership, the non-sexual connection is more important than the sexual one. As a fan, I'd prefer to extrapolate "they love each other so maybe they'd have sex" rather than "they're sexually attracted to each other so maybe they'll intertwine their whole existences together."

It probably isn't necessary to add, but I will anyway: I'm aware that Good Omens is sort of sacrificing social leverage - the ability to whack homophobes over the head with canon if they try to deny the show's queerness - and is thus not really contributing to making specifically gay relationships more widely seen and accepted. However, I don't think all stories have to invest heavily in every social issue they touch on for them to still be meaningful. I also do think Good Omens is an excellent example of a relationship that is extremely profound without being heteronormative.

I don't think the next season is going to be a rom-com. It will likely not even be a "love story," where the definition of "love story" is "a story that follows the development of a relationship and employs certain plot beats to make its point." Remember that conflicts and breakups are key to love stories, so if it IS a love story, then we're going to have to watch the relationship get challenged in ways some of us might have thought were already resolved in season 1! And while that could be thrilling and ultimately very good, it would also be likely to undercut some of the careful headcanoning and analysis we've already done. Any sequel is going to do that to some degree, but a second love story would probably do it a lot, with interpretations that people are even more protective of.

I'm sort of thinking the next season is likely to be a fantasy-heavy mystery, only because those are the two concepts Neil's introduction led with - an angel with amnesia who presents Crowley and Aziraphale with a mystery. Crowley and Aziraphale's connection to each other can still absolutely be a major theme! It can still be the thread stitching the plot together! It just probably, in my opinion, won't escalate and escalate and escalate like it did in season 1. And it will probably be woven in there among a lot of other plot threads that are, in many moments, louder. Still, I'd love to be left with the impression of these two existences, the light and the dark, subtly becoming more intimate, subtly growing more comfortable in this shared place they've chosen in the universe, gradually starting to behave like they know they aren't alone in the world anymore, all while other things happen to and around them.

Nonsexual physical intimacy - a really great hug, or leaning together on the sofa, or a forehead touch, or something like those, something that could happen in a lot of different kinds of relationships but is undoubtedly based in deep trust and affection and a desire to be close...that's the dream, for me. Oh, how lovely it would be.

Of course, I could be just absolutely, embarrassingly wrong about all this. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[violetemerald]

Grey's Anatomy: Owen Hunt & His Journey to Becoming a Parent - "Bless The Broken Road"

Voiceovers are transcribed at the bottom of this description. ~~~ I don't know what to expect with Owen and this foster baby storyline going forward but I'm SO HAPPY about it so far. Also my OTP on Grey's right now is Owen/Amelia and her being so involved has not hurt my happiness about it... lol. But seriously, I have all the excitement of shipping feelings right now but more toward Owen&happiness, I have been rooting for Owen and parenthood for 7 years, I'm pretty sure, and it's all HAPPENING!! ~~~ As you may have learned from my personal video about my queerplatonic relationship I was in on-and-off for a couple years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN_3ynvHdY4 - I really want to foster and/or adopt children myself in my future. Owen's storyline (including a willingness to adopt or even foster an older child!) and his struggle to find a partner he's in love with who actually wants to have children has been one of the parts of Grey's Anatomy as a TV series that has resonated with me the most, especially recently as I re-watch a big chunk of the series knowing I'm asexual and aromantic-spectrum. I was so shocked when 14x19 happened and Owen signed up to do parenting single via fostering to adopt, as that is basically my plan if I can't within the next 6 or 7 years or so find a partner to co-parent with. I started this vid immediately and have been SO inspired.

Special thanks to cardiffgiant02 for helping me brainstorm scenes!

I couldn't fit in everything I wanted to, especially in regards to explaining how his relationship with Emma in season 10 was so close to giving him his dream of children but SHE wasn't who he wanted in a romantic partner, and actually in order to fit in most of what I wanted to I edited the song and EXTENDED IT...

...but repeating certain instrumental sections a few times. I hope the song extension/edits don't sound horrible and overly distracting... I couldn't help it, I really *needed* the extra 30 or so seconds, lol. Also I hope my glowy effects on the scenes from the two "What If" episodes where Owen has kids in season 8 and season 10 are not too much...

Mainly I'm pretty happy with how the video turns out even if it's not entirely perfect. I worked hard on this and I really hope people enjoy it. Please leave me a comment if you like it, as it took me many, many hours to edit. :)

And yay for my first Grey's Anatomy video in 4 years, by the way! Check out my playlist of all my Grey's Anatomy vidding here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQIrXD4weMlgmJGC93E8d3QAXaht9guad

I actually hope to make some other Grey's Anatomy fanvideos soon, probably to vid Cristina & Meredith's relationship, to vid Amelia and/or the Owen/Amelia ship, AND to vid the hospital shooting storyline and the whole aftermath of that trauma throughout season 7.  I already have perfect song ideas for all of those. They all mean things to me personally. Cristina & Meredith are the epitome of queerplatonic partners in many ways, although there is no one way to do that relationship structure, and I love so much in my re-watch noticing the show exploring their bond. The trauma and coping with the aftermath of a gun related trauma is personal for me after my friend perpetrated a murder-suicide 5 months ago. Etc. There's a LOT going into my feelings toward the show right now.

I felt a little weird vidding this song because A) I started a vid years and years ago set to a different cover of this song and I almost-never repeat vid songs, and B) I'm an atheist - I don't believe in God and this song is kinda more heavily about "God" "blessing" the difficult journey to get to the happy ending. But the previous vid I had been working on, a Lucas & Peyton (One Tree Hill) one I didn't vid more than about 45 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l9yExD5zQY and I just couldn't think of a better song for focusing on the "broken road" part, the angst and long journey to getting tot the end. A lot of other songs that crossed my mind, like "Brighter Than Sunshine" by Aqualung or other covers of that, focused too much on how life NOW is great, brighter than sunshine, and while it turns out episodes 14x20 and 14x21 gave us quite a few Owen w/ a child scenes and I could've probably made a song like that work, I picked the song when all I knew was the end of 14x19 and I was expecting maybe one scene at best by the end of the season of Owen getting his dream of Parenthood. I was expecting the happy ending to be more implied in this vid when I first started out making it. Anyway... I think the song worked pretty perfectly, even if at the end the lyric switches to "lover's arms" so I had to be creative with Amelia... :P There aren't a lot of songs out there focusing on platonic happy endings after a lot of broken hearts, if you know what I mean.

Song: Bless The Broken Road Cover Artist: Luke Murgatroyd & Mike Watson (Originally by Rascal Flatts) Discovered it here on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYP8UqF5x8s

Voiceovers:

Cristina: I don't want a baby. Owen: Well, you have one.

Owen: I could take a leave for six months, or a year. Cristina: No, you couldn't. Owen: Yes. Sure, I could. I'm telling you I want this. I can do this. Cristina: There is no compromise! I don't want to be a mother.

Cristina: I made an appointment... to terminate the pregnancy.

Owen (to Megan): I always imagined us raising our families together. Camping trips, cookouts.

Owen: It's a cute baby, right?

Owen: I could sing a song... You tired? [Sofia coos]

Owen: It's always been about you! It's what YOU want. That's always been your position. We live like you want, how you want... you get WHATEVER you want.

April: I don't know, it's just a feeling. [Owen scoffs a little] April: But... you don't have any kids.

Owen: It was- it was a... life that I envisioned for myself, okay?

Megan: You don't have any kids. How exactly would that dream work out?

Owen: You KILLED our baby! You don't ever forget that!

DSHS Worker: So, are you looking to foster a child? Or foster-to-adopt? Owen: Foster-to-adopt.

Owen: Oh, sure. Ok, we're fine. Except for the part where you aborted the child that I wanted. Cristina: Except for the part where you held my hand while I exercised my right to choose, and then four months later you screamed I killed your baby in front of all our friends.

Cristina: I do not want kids- Owen: Most people would've considered dropping a bomb like that BEFORE the wedding. THAT is when it would've been relevant.

Meredith: He should be with someone who wants a baby.

Amelia: You have wanted this forever!

Ethan: Can I stay with you? Owen: [chuckles] No, no, no, I have to- I have to work.

Owen: When you and Derek adopted Zola, how did you know?

Owen (to Emma): Are you planning to break my heart?

Owen: I mean, how did you really know that that was something you were gonna do? Meredith: Why? Are you thinking...?

Owen: You know, this kid, he needs someone. And... I like him! And, uh... he likes me! He's scared and alone, and... I could help. I know how to help, and I want to. It's a huge commitment; it's a lifetime of responsibility... but then I spend one minute with this kid, and... I can't imagine not doing it.

Meredith: You know, Owen was talking about taking the kid, himself.

Cristina: Were you even going to tell me you wanted to... ADOPT him? Owen: Well, that didn't happen, so... Cristina: But you WANTED to! Owen, you want kids!

Cristina: Derek watches Zola put applesauce in her ear, and he's enchanted. You felt that way with Ethan.

Alex: Mm. Maybe you're not a "baby guy". Babies just don't like some guys.

Cristina: You broke up with her? She was IT, Owen. Picket fence, a dozen kids. Owen: I don't want to talk about that.

Owen: I'm a baby guy! You can see that, right?

Owen: Um... kids? Amelia: Five. Owen: Whoa, five? Amelia: Sure, unless the first few terrorize us, then we can have four. Owen: Are we really talking about this? Marriage and kids?

Owen: Hey, did I tell you I spent all day with Harriet today? It was so much fun. After a while, I just... I felt like I'd done it forever.

Owen: And so I was thinking that we could turn the... study into the nursery!

Megan: If I die, I need you to promise me that you'll take care of Farouk.

Amelia: My baby lived for 43 minutes.

Owen: I keep trying to think of him as like a "practice baby", but he is such a cute practice baby. [Sighs] Oh.

Amelia: I got to hold him. And it almost killed me! I haven't told Owen all of it.  [Breathes.] He wants a family so bad.

Owen: You know, and then we can- We can turn the nursery into his room! Or her room. I mean, it's a good room for a kid, right?