#and I still think Stan is written inconsistently between s2 and s3

[deliciouskeys]

I agree that they’re transposing the comics James Stilwell storyline onto this one. And I think Stan’s conversation with HL in season 2 episode 1 regarding not having to consult HL about team members is an example of doing that deftly. Stan comes off as cool, collected, scathingly honest, and fearless to tell HL how it is— put him in his place and leave him speechless.

But the comics had nothing even close to equivalent for the kind of prolonged provocation that happens between s2 and s3, and what we see in the first 2 eps of s3. Stan being petty is a solid explanation but that’s very different from the comics, and it implies that— far from a mastermind— Stan is very short sighted and pretty irrational if he didn’t think something would eventually give. He doesn’t seem to understand what drives HL at all. HL’s line about “I’d rather be loved, I really would, but if you take that away from me, being feared as a-okay by me” comes to mind. Stan came close to taking away that fanbase, love, etc. HL’s tirade at his birthday special shocked everyone, but at least it was just words and an appeal for someone to take his side during this unfair treatment (it worked very well, because HL has rizz even at his most stutteringly angry moments). But that kind of public breakdown could have been much worse. He could have been provoked by someone in the audience and decided that, fuck this, he’s not playing this game anymore, and he has nothing to lose because his fanbase has been eroded, and just fried the entire audience, Stan included, as phase 1 of his campaign to just terrorize all of humanity so at least they pay attention to him. So either Stan misunderstands what motivates HL and what keeps him in check, and was lucky it wasn’t worse, or he knew what he was risking and did it out of pettiness anyway, which I guess is supposed to be an echo to James Stilwell’s apathy towards HL’s threats. But James Stilwell never spent any energy provoking HL specifically so it’s a very different vibe in those conversations.

Regarding storytelling perspective for choosing Starlight… I understand the mechanics of what they wanted to do with Maeve etc, and it’s certainly more interesting that Starlight gets to play that role than either Maeve or some rando new character. But that doesn’t change the fact that they did very little with it. It didn’t really strengthen Starlight’s motivations, if anything she became more of a pacifist in the group towards the end. It almost revealed something about HL’s neediness for affection, but then it… kind of didn’t. So if it didn’t serve that much in driving storylines or character development forward, it’s strange they didn’t give Stan a more explicit reason to promote her. I don’t think it’s just young woman vs old— why promote a woman at all? I think we’re supposed to deduce that Stan knows quite a bit about her double agenting, the uneasy detente she has with HL, and that she has the most antagonistic relationship with HL out of the Seven. I think it’s heavily implied Stan promotes her to specifically irk HL. Which is fine, but gets back to the needless risky provocations question above. The writing in season 3 leaves a lot more vague conjectural motivations for some characters than seasons 1 and 2 in general. Global problem.

Stan Edgar's and Homelander's relationship: my two cents

Tl;dr: Stan Edgar's show-canon relationship with Homelander presumes (and loosely establishes) the relationship between comics Homelander and James Stillwell, including James' Stillwell's extreme confidence vis-à-vis Homelander, which explains a lot of Stan's more insane choices provoking Homelander, but I remain naively hopeful that the show also means to show us in the end that he has miscalculated.

Following up on this post trying to figure out what the hell Stan Edgar's end game is with Homelander, I just want to add a small point to what I think is an excellent discussion because I think you can't really answer the question of Stan's intentions via-à-vis Homelander without establishing what the show-canon relationship between the two is supposed to be (even if the execution is done badly). Personally, I think show canon tries to do one of two things: 1. take the canon relationship in the comics and twist it by having "James Stillwell"/Stan Edgar miscalculate or 2. take the canon relationship in the comics and keep "James Stillwell"/Stan Edgar as the mastermind. My guess (and hope) is that they are going for number 1, but who knows, maybe there's some secret third option.

Either way, what is clear is that the show is trying to replicate, in some form, the dynamic that exists between Homelander and James Stillwell in the comics. That's apparent when Stan Edgar tells Starlight that Homelander will stay in line as long as he is in charge, which is supposed to establish that Stan Edgar is 100% confident in his ability to manage Homelander no matter what.

(It is also hinted at from Homelander's perspective when they replicate the comics plot point that Homelander is confused by/scared of his blood pressure/heart rate/whatever other readings he gets, and when he wonders if Stan Edgar is the headpopper because he thinks he must be a very powerful supe due to his lack of fear.)

Seriously, I think the sentence above is central to understanding the relationship. BUT, interestingly, when he says "and we both know why", the viewer doesn't know why, and this is where the show could have really done a better job explaining it.

This is a problem with many of the points taken directly from the comics because they are casually imposed on the show without properly "translating" them to the new medium and the new storyline to actually make them significant to the show (instead of just mentioning them on the side). Another good example of this is Maeve's alcoholism. We see her drinking in S1E1 during a work meeting, then we don't see her drinking in meetings again though she still has occasional drinks, and in S3, she tells Butcher she's been sober for X months. But that's really all we see of it -- it never becomes a major point in her character arch and gets lost easily. So from a storytelling perspective, that's dissatisfying. Either weave the point properly into the character's arch, or leave it out entirely.

So anyway, back to the main point, which is that the show presumes the relationship from the comics and makes it visible here and there. I think they do a slightly better job with Homelander and his relationship with Stan "James Stillwell" Edgar than with Maeve's relationship with alcohol, but the point is still not translated very well. However, what we can take away from it is that for whatever Stan Edgar does, he always proceeds from the assumption that he has Homelander 100% under control, same as when James Stillwell tells an enraged Homelander, who has come to kill him, to do it already because he is bored out of his mind by his rant.

That is the level of confidence that should be assumed behind every single of Stan's actions that affect Homelander. My personal take is he takes some joy in humiliating Homelander and getting away with it, especially since this person he considers largely irrelevant to the company's bottom line has just given him a ton of extra work.

I did also consider the possibility that Stan is doing this strategically to show who the real boss is and bring Homelander back under his thumb, and I guess that's possible given that he has just had to deal with two Homelander contingencies in a row -- the supe terrorists and HL discovering Ryan. That would seem like a good time to reassess his prior assumptions about his control over HL. But I do think his confidence in his ability to manage HL is supposed to be taken as real and not just an act in S3, so my personal headcanon is that Stan is being petty. Homelander annoys him, so why only punish him once if he can do it -- cost free in his mind -- over and over again?

Anyway, my hope is that the show is going with having Stan Edgar miscalculating instead of masterminding. I don't want a "Stan as puppet master who saw every single one of Homelander's moves coming" storyline, but based on the way the scene between Homelander and Stan Edgar on 99 was done, miscalculation also seems more likely, because Stan does slam the glass down on the table as he leaves the room, which I'm guessing is meant to indicate that despite his blood pressure and calm demeanor, his blasé attitude was an act and he is waking up to the fact that, oops, he did miscalculate.

That doesn't answer all the questions, such as why choose Starlight over Maeve, but I mean, the answer to that one is pretty evident from a storytelling perspective: if you have a central heroine and a character who will leave the show at the end of the Season 3, which of of these two characters are you going to put at the center of a major conflict? Obviously the one who is your main heroine. Bringing in a new person mid-season just for this would be... a very questionable choice in any writer's room.

Anyway, I would also argue that in this case, it doesn't really do much harm to Stan's character building and story arch. It's totally in line with his own and Vought's overall ethics that they would discard a woman who, by industry standards, is old, and go for a fresh face, their rising star, a person Stan presumes to still be impressionable and malleable -- he knows how to work with people like that. Sure, she may not be as young as Vicky was when he got to her, but it's reasonable he would assume he could shape her more easily than Maeve, so I really don't see any plothole here.

Starlight's relationship with The Boys is irrelevant because Stan canonically does not see The Boys as a threat. He may not love Butcher, but he's good enough to form a temporary alliance with, and Stan certainly does not view him as a existential threat to himself or to Vought. That may be another miscalculation, but for the time being, given Butcher's hyperfocus on Homelander and his inability to see the big picture about Vought, it seems fair enough. Stan also doesn't believe that he's giving Starlight a whole lot of power with the new position. The co-captains are performing monkeys in his mind (just like Homelander himself has always been), so the risk, to him, is not much higher than having her join The Seven in the first place.

It certainly doesn't answer the question of why Stan put Stormfront in The Seven given what must be a very complex relationship between the two. Clearly, she's influential at the company, clearly, they work together (she does the high risk stuff for him so that he can maintain plausible deniability and distance himself from the ugliest parts of Vought's medical experiments), clearly, they do not like each other (unless there's something we don't know). But perhaps that's their deal: Stormfront does the ugly stuff for Stan, Stan gets her closer to her beloved Nazi-ideal-confirming potential son-in-spirit. Obviously, their exact relationship is never explained directly. It's either a plothole or a plotline that was left open because it will be closed later, or a plotline that was left open and will remain open because the way shows are written means not all loose ends are tied up in the end. Personally, I don't think we'll see this one resolved.

Anyway, best case scenario, the show will deliver as a twist on "James Stillwell" as someone who miscalculated on multiple fronts (mainly Homelander, possibly Butcher, but that's probably just my pipe dream lol) thanks to his overconfidence, and gets destroyed along with Vought as a consequence. Worst case scenario, this will all fizzle out and not be resolved properly as the show descends deeper into the contemporary American politics non-plotline.