#and I really liked Shang chi and black panther

[greetings-inferiors]

Damn I kinda wanna watch guardians again

I’ll wait until my family watch it on Disney plus

[c-is-for-circinate]

MCU 2024 Rewatch MASTERPOST: yeah sure why not

Fuck it, guess we're doing this! I, in the year of our lord 2024, am watching my way through the full MCU, in release order. Just that kind of masochist I guess. And because this is the Masochism And Schadenfreude website, you all get to watch!

One of the reasons I'm doing this is because I actually really want to track where it feels like the MCU went wrong. I saw the original Iron Man in theaters in 2008 (twice!), and it was genre-defining in several ways that seem very distant after sixteen years and thirty-some-odd movies. We all watched these for a reason! Time to figure out what it was and also where it got lost.

Note: for now we're skipping the various TV shows, Agents of SHIELD, the assorted Netflix miniseries, Agent Carter...it is Too Much and unlike Twitch reacters, I ain't getting paid for this shit. We're also skipping The Incredible Hulk. Fight me on it.

I have seen...some of these. Pretty much everything through Civil War, and then most things through Infinity War, and basically nothing since then. So it's also going to be interesting to see how future knowledge impacts some of the earlier movies, and then y'all are going to get my actual reactions to the later movies. Which I'm sure will be fun for SOMEBODY.

Anyway I'll be tagging everything as C Watches MCU 2024, and I'll link below on the list after the readmore as reactions happen. Hopefully this whole list will keep me honest!

(oh god there are 32 movies on this list even skipping the Hulk. why am I doing this to myself. what have I begun. why.)

Iron Man (2008)

The Incredible Hulk (2008) THIS DOES NOT COUNT AND I'M NOT DOING IT

Iron Man 2 (2010)

Thor (2011)

Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)

The Avengers (2012)

Iron Man 3 (2013)

Thor: The Dark World (2013)

Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)

Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)

Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)

Ant-Man (2015)

Captain America: Civil War (2016)

Doctor Strange (2016)

Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (2017)

Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)

Thor: Ragnarok (2017)

Black Panther (2017)

Avengers: Infinity War (2018)

Ant-Man and the Wasp (2018)

Captain Marvel (2019)

Avengers: Endgame (2019)

Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)

Black Widow (2021)

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021)

Eternals (2021)

Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021)

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022)

Thor: Love and Thunder (2022)

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022)

Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2023)

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (2023)

The Marvels (2023)

[manicpixieyandere]

A Show For The Witches!!!

Agatha All Along

OH MY GOD WE REALLY CAN'T BELIEVE IT?! Agatha All Along, a show that actually honors IRL witchcraft while still maintaining its Hollywoodness in good faith that also is for the girls and gays???

Still cannot believe Marvel actually followed through and didn't shy away from showing any intimacy between Agatha and Rio??? Not to mention Billy also has a same sex kiss! (Thought we'd love to have seen Agatha and Rio in the cottage raising Nicky, it also makes sense narratively what they did with Nicky).

Like yes obviously the witches have unrealistic flashy powers, but they still do tarot and magic with intent. It was fucking awesome and obvious they did their research! In an interview Kathryn Hahn even said she talked to a real witch. There always needs to be something to be able translate something into the medium. Film and TV is a visual medium and thus you need spectacle. The MCU has done this before with having Marc and Steven from Moon Knight talking in reflections. Dissociative disorders don't usually work like that, but it works well for television and it was clear they did their research in all the other aspects.

Honestly the MCU has gotten better with representation and we couldn't be happier. Hawkeye and Echo showed physical disabilities, Moon Knight was about neurodivergence, and there are many more heroes who aren't white (ex: Black Panther, Shang-Chi) and aren't all men (The Marvels). Probably many more we are forgetting at the moment. Hell things are so good it'd be a bit too long to mention them all!

And that isn't to say representation is what makes the show good. You can have a diverse cast and still a shit show. But Agatha All Along was actually GOOD! What was the difference? It was structured like a TV show. All the Marvel shows so far have felt like split up movies with an overarching plot. It works sure, but it doesn't feel like TV and can be a bit much to take in. But Agatha All Along uses its format to its advantage, having each trial be an episode is so simple and yet genius. It feels fresh in the new landscape of movie budget limited series. Not to mention the show used its motif of "The Witches Road" to create the whole story. Every twist and turn goes back to that song and yet it was still surprising and exciting. It's a lesson on how even seemingly simple ideas can be the best. Not everything must be grand.

The best episodes were 7 and 9. 7 was very creative with how time was out of order from Lilia's perspective. Lilia's death was also a perfect moment for her character and it was quite beautiful to watch. The creators also said all the characters (besides Agatha probably) will stay dead. That's a decision we can respect. The MCU can sometimes feel low stakes with all the resurrection. Episode 9 was also amazing! The way the story comes full circle, the heart of it being Nicky brings many tears to the eyes.

We just wish we saw a bit more of the Agatha / Rio moments. Not everything needs to be shown on screen of course, but a bit more would have been nice. Even just Rio watching from the distance as Agatha kills each coven. But still, top tier stuff!

Honestly sorry to Moon Knight, but I think this is our new favorite of the Marvel shows so far! We had fallen out of love with the MCU over the years, only tuning into the ones we really cared about, but this restored our hope in the series. Hopefully Agatha will come back like she does in the comics and then is with Rio for the rest of eternity because lord knows Death needs it. She's a bratty bottom at heart.

[animebw]

So I've been stewing a bit with the whole concept of "MCU Fatigue" after my disappointment with The Marvels, and I think I've come to a realization.

See, most people when they shit on the modern MCU act like they're been putting out tons of terrible stuff. But looking at their track record, that's not actually true. In fact, I'd argue that the majority of their Phase 4 and 5 output has still been above average. The only real misses I'd count are FATWS, Dr. Strange 2, The Marvels, and maybe What If if I was feeling particularly uncharitable (and I guess Secret Invasion, but the bad response kept me away from that one so I've never watched it myself). Other than that, Marvel's still putting out a lot of good stuff.

The problem is they're not putting out a lot of great stuff.

Like, we need to take a step back and realize just how fucking insane the MCU's track record used to be. They didn't just put out good movies on a regular basis that put every other franchise to shame, they regularly released some of the most iconic superhero blockbusters of all time. They cranked out all-time classics on such a consistent basis that at this point, at least half of the top 20 greatest superhero movies of all time list would be taken up by MCU projects, maybe more. That's how they built trust with the general audience; not just consistency, but the promise of greatness. People flocked to the MCU not just because there was a near guarantee of a well-made fun time at the cinema, but because that was a strong probability you were going to see something truly spectacular.

Seriously, just look at the studio's track record through Phase 2 and 3. Iron Man 3, Captain America 2 and 3, the first two Guardians movies, Thor Ragnorak, Black Panther, Infinity War and Endgame... you could argue that over half of their movie output from this period was unqualified home runs. And sure, maybe Thor 2 was a dud and Avengers 2 was disappointing, but it didn't matter because there was always the promise of another masterpiece waiting in the wings. People weathered the occasional misstep because they could trust the MCU to always find its way back to greatness.

But now consider: how many all-time bangers can you name from Phases 4 and 5?

Like, I can name a few. Wandavision, Black Panther 2, Guardians 3, Spider-Man 3, maybe Ms. Marvel if I pretend episode 5 doesn't exist (and I've heard Loki season 2 was also great, but that's another one I haven't seen yet). But the ratio of Big Deal Events to Just Another Marvel Thing has gotten much steeper. Between the movies and the Disney+ series, Marvel's cranking out more stuff than ever, but it hasn't been cranking out landmarks any faster than it used to. It's just shoving a lot more padding between the properties that really set the world on fire. And it's training the audience, unintentionally, to no longer associate the MCU with guaranteed smash successes every other weekend.

And I still like most of the MCU's current output! But I don't love it as much as some of its older stuff. Black Widow and Shang-Chi are good, but not quite great. Eternals I will defend to my dying breath, but it was destined for cult classic status. Love and Thunder I would argue is actually pretty fantastic, fuck you fight me, and Quantummania is fine, you guys, but I wouldn't die defending them the way I would, say, Iron Man 3. And as much as I enjoyed Hawkeye, Moon Knight and She-Hulk, you can only watch so much Pretty Good TV before it starts to feel like a chore.

This deluge of content hasn't resulted in tons of more Great Marvel Stuff. It's just resulted in tons of more Good, Okay, and Not That Great Actually Marvel Stuff. It's resulted in audiences feeling like you can't trust Marvel to regularly crank out classics that change the way you view superhero media. And it turns out, it gets a lot harder to justify spending so much time on such an overstuffed time-sink of a franchise when it can't guarantee you a steady stream of masterpieces on a regular basis.

Especially with so much more of it coming out now in such a painfully short timespan. Even in Marvel's busiest years, they used to max out at three movies per year and a couple spinoffs like the Netflix shows that you didn't need to watch to feel up to date. You went out to the movies a couple times a year and were basically guaranteed a good movie every time, and that was it. Now, though, with the Disney+ content, it feels like a constant battle to not fall behind, to keep up with tons of stuff you're just kind of enjoying to justify getting to the increasingly few nuggets of true gold. This stuff would need a track record just as good as the Phase 2/3 days to justify sitting through so much of it, and it just... doesn't. And the second you drop off from exhaustion, it's already roaring ahead and leaving you with too much to ever reasonably catch up on if you're not prepared for a couple days of heavy bingeing.

The shared universe model is fucking hard. Every studio's failed attempt to copy Marvel's playbook is a testament to that. The fact it even maintained its cultural domination as long as it did is nothing short of a miracle. Because it turns out, even being consistently good isn't enough to maintain the level of trust and engagement necessary for such a long haul. You need to be consistently excellent. You need audiences to come away from every other event singing your praises as the new gold standard of blockbuster cinema. And the second you can't maintain that standard anymore, all that goodwill slowly bleeds out as more and more people decide that the effort it takes to keep up with everything is no longer worth the reward.

Does the MCU recover from this? I don't know. At this point, what it needs to do more than anything is slow the fuck down instead of overloading audiences with too many shows and movies to keep up with. Maybe it's not the dominant cultural force anymore, but with a little patience and willingness to sacrifice quantity for quality, it can at least re-establish itself as a franchise worth sticking around for. Marvel used to be special; with a little luck, maybe it can be again.

[demontouched]

i'm slowly catching up on the mcu....

(thoughts and opinions of someone who is not, and probably will never be, a comic enthusiast, a film major, or cgi specialist below the cut.)

so. i have heard and read nothing but votriol for just about everything after end game. maybe it was the classic fandom progression where everything gets turned into a cesspool (either the fandom survives and becomes good again, or everything implodes and only incels and tarpits remain). i don't really know because i left fandom spaces for like 3 years, but that's a whole different story.

i dropped off after end game, i'm just barely catching up, so i don't know how a lot of everything else turned out. i've liked the multiverse movies i've seen so far (shang-chi, eternals, multiverse of madness, quantumania). they're not masterpieces, but they're good movies. (please remember that this is my opinion and i'm not an expert on anything except myself. the block button and i are best friends.)

despite starting the movie several times, i can never seem to finish wakanda forever. it just feels... sad. without chadwick boseman. don't get me wrong, the movie is interesting, and i love shuri and wakanda. it just doesn't feel right that chadwick isn't there. call it parasocial or whatever, but idk. when black panther first came out, it was compelling. i fell in love with the story of the mcu all over again, and this character specifically. call it parasocial or whatever. idk. i just can't finish the movie.

i really liked shang-chi, i thought it was an interesting movie and it was very pretty in the special effects/cgi department. i liked the story, and while i wasn't completely blown away by the lovie, i did enjoy it a lot. probably my current favorite of the post endgame movies.

eternals was... well, i didn't much care for it either way. it felt strange and lonely, but i think any movie would feel strange and lonely if it happens in a preexisting universe, and is effecting the whole globe, and yet only a certain set of super powered people show up to help.

multiverse of madness was interesting to me. we got to see two preestablished characters who have never interacted collide in a way that doesnt really happen in marvel movies. it wasn't a crossover of any sort (not like venom in no way home or deadpool's fourth wall references) but it was cool. i haven't seen wandavision (i'm television adversed for the most part, honestly. watching movies is like pulling teeth for me, and focusing on a tv show is worse. to me, the tv is for background noise so i don't go insane.) so i'm missing pieces of background for that, i'm sure. something something wanda wanted kids and so she'd destroy the world to have that or whatever. (i'll watch wandavision eventually) i sympathize with craving a life ripped away from you by circumstances out of your control, and i found myself in tears at that one scene, when the kids are terrified of her.

quantumania was a whole other thing. they're setting up the big bad of the arc. like they did with phase one. those little touches of thanos in the end credits, ths machinations of a monster much bigger than them. this is just a step up, a mulitversal problem rather than an in universe one. they did (*imo*) a great job taking this step through by including the slow build to it. the hints of the quantum in phase one movies has lended itself greatly to the build up of this phase.

quantunmania itself was mid. i didn't hate it, i didn't love it. it was interesting to see the probability storm. i think it says great deal about scott as a person that even when he is split into hundreds of millions of versions of himself, his focus will always be cassie. that's a dad if i've ever seen one. it was also an interesting read of hope, as well, that she came all together to help scott and even though the scotts all helped og scott, they only came together when hope arrived. (the metaphor was like a bright red circle in a youtube thumb nail.) also, i loved the ant mimicry in thay scene. and the ants! the ants were probably my favorite part.

end game was a unique film, with countless hours of work from a HUGE cast and crew put into it. blood, sweat, and tears went into that movie. it's a cgi wet dream. it tied up loose end after loose end, sweeping the plot bunnies together in a neat 3 hour long package. i could wax poetically about end game for 3 hours at least. anway. the point of all this is that these movies are fine. they're not end game levels, but i don't think anything will ever live up to end game. maybe i'm wrong, we shall see. maybe i'm stuck in the past. maybe i'm missing a humongous chunk of context bc i haven't been keeping up with the news surrounding marvel. idk. i'm gonna keep enjoying what i enjoy, and despite it's flaws, i do enjoy marvel.

[dragon-snoots-a-boopin]

Before I start this I want to make sure I am very clear when I say that MOST OF WHAT I AM GOING TO SAY IS MY OPINION AND MINE ALONE. You are more than welcome to disagree, just be respectful about it.

It has come to my attention that the most recent MCU movie, The Marvels, has landed itself in the position of being the worst MCU movie ever, only bringing in around $47 million. This is worse than the 2008 Incredible Hulk movie in a comparison to another Marvel movie and is also worse than the recent The Flash movie. I've heard that this has put Marvel and Disney in a bit of disarray, with them thinking that they "need" to bring back Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans to drive interest back into MCU movies.

To me, hearing this makes me laugh quite a bit. My opinion is two fold here. The first is that all of the MCU movies after No Way Home have been so uninteresting that I didn't bother or downright terrible that I wish I had not watched then. The second is that if Disney/Marvel's idea of "fixing" the issue is to bring back their two big name actors then the MCU is in more trouble than they realize.

MCU movies like Black Widow, Shang-Chi, The Eternals, Doctor Strange 2, Thor 4 and Black Panther II just had little to no interest in them for me to even make me want to watch them and the one I did, Doctor Strange 2, was just awful. My biggest opinion as to why I think the MCU has been hurting is because of the Marvel shows on Disney+. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone can afford/has access to Disney+ so, for example, my own self was utterly lost with what happened to Wanda and Vision because I had not seen their show. I think this is a case too as to why I have very little interest in The Marvels because I've not watched Ms. Marvel so how am I supposed to know who this character is without having watched their show?

Personally, I think that TV shows based on Marvel characters is a fine enough idea but would be better if they were in their own self contained universe and not connect to the greater MCU as a whole. This is what the Netflix Marvel shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, The Defenders and The Punisher did and those shows, in my opinion, were better off for it. As an example, I find that this is what makes the Arrowverse so good is that they didn't try to tie it all into the DCEU, even with Ezra Miller's Flash having a cameo in Crisis. The MCU's storytelling has become inconsistant over all the movie and the TV shows are not really helping if you ask me.

But, I think that the other biggest problem with the MCU is that they seem to have a thing for quantity over quality. This is apparent when you see that it would take someone around 350 hours to get through all of the current stuff in the MCU and that is just stupid. I'm sorry but that is just too much. But, what will Disney/Marvel do? I have no fucking idea honestly. Marvel is too much of a money maker for Disney for them to just stop. The only thing I feel like they can do is to slow down and make better quality movies and not this quantity over quality strategy that results in a more hit and miss thing with each movie.

[justanotherwildfangirlsstuff]

Superhero Burnout

Superhero burnout has been huge for me recently and it sucks. Growing up, I loved Marvel and DC. I used to watch stuff like Adam West, Lynda Carter, etc. I had (and still do) a huge collection of comics, figurines, posters, etc. My favorite show was Justice League, I could recite the Green Lantern mantra by heart blah blah blah. I was a huge hero dork. But being a superhero nerd still wasn’t super popular so I couldn’t often connect with my friends or classmates on my interests. When Marvel and DC started to get their feet planted on the ground more, I was overjoyed. Superheroes were once again part of the mainstream media and I could die happy. But then they started to run things into the ground.

Any new hero films were stuck with the same formula, some storylines weren’t developed as well as they good have been and were instead rushed, super powerful and interesting villains were pushed to the side as one off characters. Content after content was pumped out without anything new being added to the table. Sure it was enjoyable, but it was getting old- and much faster than our capitalist Hollywood industry would have preferred.

Then came the wave of the dark storylines. In an effort to stand out and add something new to the conversation, we were given grittier and darker hero content. A look at a more realistic view of what the world would ACTUALLY be like if people had powers, or just darker storylines overall. DC put a gray filter on their heroes, making them all act like their most successful hero- Batman. We also got stuff like Marvel’s Zombies and Werewolf at Night. Non-mainstream media got to enter the spotlight too with Brightburn, The Boys universe and Invincible coming to play. IMO, The Boys was probably the most entertaining out of these and brought an interesting perspective to the table. It was harsh, but probably the most realistic portrayal of the genre in a long time. Gen V is also such a fun addition and I will be doing its own well deserved appreciation post soon.

Now one thing I do appreciate in this hero dump of content is the opportunity for more representation. I adore Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Shang Chi, Blue Beetle and Gen V. They intertwine their respective cultures or identities into the hero storyline in an unapologetic way. They don’t shy away from showing the struggle of day to day life people of color or queer folks have to go through or showing the generational trauma that comes from historical and modern abuse and I really appreciate that. But although these do this, often times they are still not bringing something new to the genre overall. It still falls back on overused tropes and I just know that it can be even better than what it is. I wish these big hero movie conglomerates would focus on the quality of their products instead of the quantity. But that’s capitalism for you 🤷‍♀️

[theredqueenandthebloodwyrm]

America Chavez Comics vs Multiverse of Madness

Once you know like the bare minimal of comic lore + the whitewashing and racism done to characters in the MCU, it's just like "why?" why would they do that?

I already didn't like Multiverse of Madness due to the whitewashing and racism surrounding MCU!Wanda Maximoff (otherwise called Wendy Mayomoff due to being played by a racist white woman). But whatever I was at least hoping to get something out of that movie when I watched it a while back. Spoiler Alert: I got nothing but racism and whitewashing and shitty writing. (shocker, said nobody ever).

But reading some of the West Coast Avengers (2018) issues/comics, you really get a feel for America Chavez as a character right off the bat. She's proud, loud, and in your face and it's fucking great. She's kicking ass, she's afro-latina and a lesbian and I love her as a character alright? (even though I haven't read like most of her stuff).

But if you take a look at Multiverse of Madness? That "adaptation" of America Chavez is not it at all. She's a plot device who doesn't do much, and the casting was undeniably whitewashed (this isn't hate against the actor for America Chavez or anything like that). Also America Chavez's comic hair type doesn't match the actress at all??

The article above pretty much lays out the issues with the casting plus it has comic book examples of America Chavez. Go check it out.

It's just like I'd like to believe the MCU can write better stories and better characters but they're consistently dropping the fucking ball of a tall ass cliff into a pit of lava (see the majority of minority character being adapted into the MCU: Wanda Maximoff, America Chavez, Sam Wilson, Jewish-erasure, Roma-erasure, and so on.) Sigh The MCU will do one or two good movies that I like (Black Panther 1 & 2, the introduction of Ironheart / Riri Williams was cool, Shang-Chi, Antman) and then fuck up something else and it's like "Oh you were hoping for something good? psych, bitch" (and even the films I listed have flaws-like every piece of media yknow but still)

[smokeybrandreviews]

A Rambling Retrospective of Phase Four

I always find it funny that cats keep attacking the MCU because Phase Four was the worst one, but people forget that the entire Marvel franchise is for f*cking kids. Now, I'll be the first to say a kids flick doesn't need to be brain-dead on arrival but, with the exception of Thor 2, none of the MCU films actually are. For the most part, they are solid flicks with decent messaging and great characters. In terms of Phase Four, the writing has slipped, for sure, so a ton of sh*t is getting shoehorned into shows that should have been films and films that should have been shows. And that’s the problem with Phase Four: Execution. WandaVision should have been a movie. Shorten up that run time, focus the budget a bit, and that sh*t could have been wonderful. The last two episodes of that show were trash. They ran out of money. With a cinematic run time of two and a half hours, you are forced to trim that fat. Same thing with Ms. Marvel. Make it a Special, like Werewolf by Night and carry on. Eternals should have been, for sure, a limited series. Focus on the principal characters as we follow them over the years after their break up, subtly weaving the danger of the those Deviants throughout the narrative, and end with that revelation about the Celestials which could potentially lead into a film. Build a little mini-Eternals universe within the MCU because that’s basically what they are. Execution.

Honestly, while Phase Four has been disappointing, it’s not all terrible. There are some very strong entries in this, more or less, experimental Phase. Obviously No Way Home is peak Spider-fair, i really dig Moon Knight (a fourth watch is actually what spurred this essay), and i actually really liked both Loki and Ms. Marvel. I though Falcon and Bucky was a very strong entry which was as important a story to tell as Black Panther and, for all of my previous criticisms, i genuinely enjoy, like, eighty percent of WandaVision. Speaking of, MoM was amazing because of Wanda and Shang-Chi worked in a way i did not expect. There is much more good in Phase Four than bad. Let’s be honest, even at it’s worst (She-Hulk), Phase Four has nothing as sh*t as say, Transformers 2. Not even Dark World is THAT dog sh*t. Phase Four is, undeniably, the worst the MCU has ever been but its not because of wokeness or lack of passion. People are blinded by all of the “social messaging” and “identity politics”, which is f*cking stupid because, upon a revisit to the majority of these entries, these films don’t say sh*t. There is no messaging. Outside of making people of color the leads of these new entries, or gender-swapping a few B-list villains, there is nothing so overly egregious about Phase Four to make it that controversial. I you have beef with Phase Four, make sure it’s on the merit of the shows, themselves, and not because of the diversity put on display.

Falcon and Bucky has an undercurrent of race relations throughout it’s run, which makes sense, because the lead character is a black man. More than that, i hearkens back to the incredibly f*cked up history the US has with black bodies, personified with the character Isaiah Bradley. That type of sh*t happened to us all the time. It still is happening to this day. The fact that there is a capeflick story about, doesn’t take away from the fact that Falcon and Bucky is arguably the strongest entry in Phase Four. It’s also the only show with a message. Well, i take that back. She-Hulk kind of does, too. Now, i liked She-Hulk. I th0ught it was a cute little side-story which rang true to the character i know from the comics but all of the neckbeards and chauvinists were ringing their bigot bells because the dared to make light of their sexist squeals. That entire show is meta commentary about the reaction said show was going to get in the blogshpere. It’s f*cking wild because, even the few who picked up on the fact that the entire goddamn show was dunking on them, still went on their rants about how the “M-She-U” was ruining everything. Outside of these two entries, there is absolutely no messaging in  anything the MCU has ever made. Even in Phase Four, those two shows are the only inherently messaged pieces of media but, apparently, the entire Phase is terrible because of politics? Really? Y’all are throwing the baby out with the bigoted bathwater.

Phase Four sucks because the writing has dulled considerably and the executives started taking the audience for granted. hey stopped trying and got comfortable with their formula. The worst hing about the MCU is they blew their load with the first three Phases. They used up all of the recognizable heroes early on, which is funny because, when the MCU started, those cats were B-list. Plus That’s why Marvel even had the rights to Iron Man in the first place; No other studio wanted to buy them. He wasn’t known as a top seller. That movie MADE the MCU, which made every other character introduced along the way. But that’s over now. Just like in comics, it’s time to change the guard. Phase Four was always going to be a difficult situation. It was always going to awkward. We are saying goodbye to characters we’ve known and loved for a decade, while introducing characters no one knows a f*cking thing about. Shang-Chi? Really? Kamala Khan? Riri Williams? Who the f*ck are these character and why should we care? That’s literally the same thing everyone said when Iron Man dropped in 08. Look how far we've come. And we got this far on the back of solid writing, dope execution, and great f*cking performances. Phase Four has two out of three, which kind of lines up with Phase One when you think about it.

More to the point, how do you come back after Endgame? DO you have any idea how difficult a challenge trying to continue any semblance of narrative after the f*cking Infinity Saga? Of course the first Phase after such an endearing narrative was going to be all over the place. What threat is as potent as Thanos? What villain is a is imposing? How do you tell a better story after half the goddamn universe was snapped out of existence? That, in of itself, should give a bit of leeway in where we are to go next but nope! “Fans” are taking to the internet in an effort to spew their vitriol and hate, not because the shows; themselves, are bad, but because they are too “woke.” Woke being code for ethnic, of course. I’ll be the first to say some of that is a little heavy-handed but even with the current management botching fundamental aspects of cinema, these films are still popcorn blockbusters that have a ton of heart. If I'm a twelve year old getting into comics for the first time, the MCU is a perfect adaption of that experience. They are fun, lighthearted, character-driven adventures which don't go too heavy on the messaging and isn't some grimdark, edgelord, misery festival like Snyder's DCEU. There's a reason Aquaman, the most MCU of that lot, made a billion goddamn dollars. Capefilms can be highbrow fair if they want to be. Road to Perdition and V for Vendetta exist. They can be elevated to Oscar caliber cinema. Joker and The Dark Knight claim that crown. But let's not forget that, first and foremost, these are movies about cats who where their underwear on the outside and cut this genre a bit of slack. Cut the MCU a bit of slack. They’re starting over after giving you a decade’s worth of the best entertainment possible, even though they’re just supposed to be kids movies.

[agentem]

I watched WAKANDA FOREVER again and thinking about Chadwick Boseman. Not just “he was a great actor” or “it’s awful that cancer takes people too soon.”

But about his purpose. When he died, there was an article with one of the friends that knew Mr. Boseman (it feels weird calling him Chadwick). And the friend said he selected his roles very carefully not just because it’s important for creative people to put something out there. Sometimes we put comedy out there to make people laugh or we write a memoir hoping to be seen. (Samuel L Jackson says he wants to make movies he would’ve seen as a kid, and I think he’s doing a good job with that purpose.)

The friend said Chadwick’s purpose was he wanted everything he put out into the world to have a positive effect. On the culture, on the world.

That means not just taking culturally conscious roles like Jackie Robinson and Thurgood Marshall. He also added his star power to August Wilson plays. And he took the role of T’Challa in CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR because he thought it would be a positive effect on the culture to see a Black superhero.

Ahe worked really hard on it. He studied capoeira, Muy Thuy, and Tae Kwon Do for BLACK PANTHER even after he found out he had cancer. (He was diagnosed in 2016, the year CIVIL WAR came out) And if I had been in his shoes, my purpose would then become to not move unless my doctor told me to because I’d be scared of the cancer.

But positive effects on the culture was what he wanted.

Ryan Coogler said in an emotional interview about how much Mr. Boseman created Wakanda because he was the only one making decisions during CIVIL WAR. He, for example, convinced the directors T’Challa should speak to his father in an African language because “why would they speak English?”

So John Kani (the actor who played T’Chaka) taught him how to say his lines in Xhosa, Kani’s own language. He wanted it to be a real African language and not, I don’t know, Dothraki. A made up thing. And that was a decision made on that day, that had a ripple effect through the future.

Because ultimately what happened with Wakanda, was this decision to use very specific cultural reference points. Not to make it look “vaguely African” or “completely made up” but to pick a specific thing from the continent of Africa. To weave the Blanket of Wakanda with real threads, that maybe don’t go together or wouldn’t be in this region, but have some real world inspiration.

More African Americans tried to learn Xhosa after BLACK PANTHER. Maybe it’s not the “correct” language for the place Wakanda is supposed to occupy on the fake map. People are connecting to a real culture that may have been ripped from them by Slavery. Maybe. (And, at the very least, also not paying Disney for a fake Wakanda dictionary like LORD OF THE RINGS have to buy for Elvish.)

That is something positive that Chadwick Boseman put out into the culture. He did that.

And it rippled out to a lot of African artists who were used for the cast and crew.

And then they have those people, who can make a Wakanda real, already on staff when they have to do it again for WAKANDA FOREVER.

Chadwick Boseman’s ripples will keep going out until all the cultures have a Marvel superhero, I think. The success of BLACK PANTHER allowed for things like SHANG CHI and MS MARVEL to be maid. (Also helped CAPTAIN MARVEL, I should add but that was already in production.)

Not only that but he’s having such a positive effect on some artists who were close to him. Coogler again talked about how he basically “had” to cast Letitia Wright as Shuri because she was the only one who could make him smile a “Chadwick Boseman” smile (lots of teeth) and not just a T’Challa (regal, restrained) smile.

And Chadwick’s positive ripples have made Letitia Wright a leading lady.

Chadwick’s ripple might get Angela Bassett the Oscar, which would make me happy in the future and Make Amber Ruffin feel positive in 1993.

I know Black people have asked to see fewer white people’s thoughts on Mr Boseman.

But, man, I have to say. If you wanted to put positive into the culture, man. You did it.

[sunandsstars]

Hey. I reblogged my own response to that representation argument you had with the individual lol. If you’ve read my response, then you know how I feel already. If not, that’s cool too. All you need to know about that person judging by their responses is that they’re miserable. Only miserable people complain about something as asinine as fictional characters, rich white people, and “appropriating culture”—they used that word wrong btw. I hope you didn’t let that get to you.

I read through it and i agree with all the points you made!

white people using their powers and privilege to create amazing things with people of colour in the media are greatly appreciated, because we know they could not have done that at all. And i love your point about Black Panther, he’s one of my favourites and i love love the movies, the music, the people and the fact you can really see your history and culture so well done.

the other person is very sour, i don’t understand why they are hating on people or a large movie just because James Cameron happened to direct and made it.

As a SEA i’ve also been on the oppressed side, people are not kind and still fail to be. but i am not angry when people represent asians in the media. For marvels example, Shang Chi. it was a great movie and it beautifully showed off chinese culture. But i feel like we still need a lot of work!

and i’m not bothered by the other person, their issues with this movie does not matter to me at all. if they fail to see the positive aspect in life then it’s up to them to rule out the negativity

[colorisbyshe]

What do you think about racebents in adaptations, when actual LGBT/POC characters in the source material that could use a popularity boost are ignored and it's mostly racebending C/D list characters? I hate it and I've been noticing it more and more. Take the MCU for example. They ignore the lgbt aspect of a/b list characters like Loki and Valkyrie, but they turn a boring z-list str8 white guy into a boring gay black man and expect praise. Call me when Dev Patel plays Doctor Strange 🥱

IIRC, both Loki and Valkyrie technically had moments of acknowledging their ~LGBT identities~ which I think is part of why you also have the bit players being changed to be more "diverse."

Both are small gestures (small moments, small characters) that are easy enough for bigots to ignore/censors to snipe that will get them kudos frmo those weak minded enough to go to Marvel/Disney/[Insert soulless corporation] for representation.

The natural consequence of corporations seeing diversity as a potential selling point rather than an organic part of storytelling is that they've found a way to Min-Max it. They found a way to minimize the push back they'll get for including "representation" (although, often, their diverse characters aren't representing any... actual marginalized experiences) while getting maximum amount of praise for that level of diversity.

Even with this current "phase" of Marvel, the movies are so disconnected, that anyone prejudiced against any type of person can just cut off that mini-franchise and enjoy the rest of the universe. You could skip the black gay character who feels responsible for the atomic bomb in the eternals and still understand what's happening. You can skip Shang Chi or Black Panther or The Marvels or whatever. ANd because they're using each one of these movies as sort of Concentrations of certain rep while the other fils are devoid of it, they still get their market share. Someone might be alienated for one movie but meanwhile that one movie is making bank off of exploiting a group waiting for said rep.

It's grotesque.

[Race, gender, sexuality, whatever]-bending has its place. Creating original characters with "diverse" features has its place. But when the main motivator is cynical min-maxing for profit... it's not good storytelling, it often isn't even really representation at all, and most of it's just so fucking bland.

[loftwingsuarus]

Ok every movie I’ve watched in the last 7 years

Why did I bother:

- Shang-Chi and the Seven Rings

- Soul

- Scott Pilgrim vs. The World

- Frozen II

- The Breakfast Club

- Midsommar

- Smile 2

It was fine:

- To All The Boys I’ve Loved Before

- Barbie and the Diamond Castle

- Luca

- Titanic

- Corpse Bride

- Memento

- The Secret World of Arriety

- Klaus

- Song of the Sea

- Barbie as Rapunzel

- My Neighbor Totoro

- Barbie and the 12 Dancing Princesses

- Barbie as the Princess and the Pauper

- Barbie as the Nutcracker

- Encanto

- Barbie (2023)

- The Witch

- Barbie in Swan Lake

- Belle

- Interstellar

- Mary and the Witch’s Flower

- Batman (2023)

- Candyman

- The Nun

Safe Choice:

- Puss in Boots: The Last Wish

- Lego Batman Movie

- Howl’s Moving Castle

- Black Panther

- Moana

- Mulan

- Tangled

- Nimona

- Us

- Coco

- The Steven Universe Movie

- Coraline

- Scarface

- Legally Blonde

- Bohemian Rhapsody

- Cinderella

- Sleeping Beauty

- Lady and the Tramp

- Smile

- The Old Guard

- Knives Out

Okay I really liked this one:

- Everything Everywhere All At Once

- Into the Spider-verse

- Across the Spider-verse

- Spirited Away

- John Wick

- Jojo Rabbit

- Pulp Fiction

- Ponyo

- Princess Mononoke

- The Menu

- West Side Story

- Pride and Prejudice

- Good Will Hunting

- The Breadwinner

- Fiddler on the Roof

“That’s a movie???”:

- Cinderella the Cat

- Perfect Blue

- The Tale of the Princess Kaguya

- Kubo and the Two Strings

- Gattaca

- The Cabinet of Dr. Caligiri

- Dracula’s Daughter

“Hey are you mentally well?”:

- Raise the Red Lantern

- Silence

- Sybil

Ok that’s not an insignificant amount I thought it was a lot fewer when I started

[thatsolacegirl]

Marvel is whitewashing a Romani character, they have a history of not casting Jewish actors in Jewish roles, and also they're publishing a comic about time fascists, who have used outright nazi imagery. I feel like this is a problem that should be talked about.

It's about damn time we get the diversity (in every sense) that Marvel has promised its audience again & again. Casting Tenoch Huerta as Namor & producing projects like Black Panther, Shang-Chi & Ms Marvel doesn't make them fully diverse. I have loved some of the casting (esp Moon Knight because I love Oscar) but I agree that it would've been very nice if we got a Jewish actor to play a Jewish character. The same goes with Wanda & Pietro, Wiccan (as sources say that Joe Locke is playing the character), Kitty, Lorna & others. This really speaks about the hypocrisy of Marvel as a company that can introduce such characters in comics but is scared shitless to introduce the same diversity in live-action.

About the TVA comic series, I feel they're riding too much on Loki's 'success' that they're forgetting that TVA is actually a fascist organization obsessed with order. What really pisses me off is that they had sold merch based on TVA.

At this point, I really think that Marvel should have stuck to animation (I love Earth's Mightiest Heroes & Avengers Assemble).

[awesomejustgotawesome]

Honestly, while Doomsday & Secret Wars obviously make much more sense for a Part 1 & Part 2 thing, I think the MCU still needed Kang Dynasty.

The problem they had was they tried to make it way too big of a thing when it should have been an Age of Ultron type of film. Not one that needs to feature every MCU hero that they have like Endgame, just a small team of the main ones (you know like Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Ant-Man, Wasp, Shang-Chi, Captain America, and maybe Spider-Man and the Hulks. But that's about it.)

Cause they introduced a lot but still have no plans for any follow-ups, team-ups or ways to connect these characters. Plus Kang's story still kind of needs closing. So having a smaller Avengers film would be exactly what the MCU needs right now, and it would have given the few characters they include room to breathe and interact with each other better than if there's like 40 of them.

They really need more team-ups before these next two big films because otherwise it's just gonna be a bunch of characters meeting each other for the first time. One of the reasons IW/E were so good was because the characters knew each other already. No doubt these next two films will be entertaining, just feels like they've terribly screwed up the road to get to them. And what really sucks is how easy it would have been to do better. Darn shame.

[whispered-into-the-void]

"Superhero fatigue isn't real" how much fucking shit. In one year. In half a year, really.

Like the Dark Knight trilogy released 1 movie every 3-4 years? (2005, 2008, 2012). The Spider-Man movies released every 2-3 years (2002, 2004, 2007) and then there was 5 years between Spider-Man 3 and Amazing Spider-Man (2012). There were 2 years between the Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014) and the movie the MCU Spider-Man appeared in (Civil War, 2016)

Hell, even the closest ones in the Mid-2000's to Mid-2010's had valid reasons for the proximity; Man of Steel released in 2013, less than a year after The Dark Knight Rises, but that was probably because their last major franchise had just wrapped up *and* The Avengers came out the same year as TDKR.

The initial MCU also had a couple of films released the same year as each other; both Thor and Captain America released in 2011, and, admittedly, I don't have any justification for that, but I can justify Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk coming out within months of each other because they were, at least, nominally different studios - Universal being the studio responsible for Hulk.

Compare that to 2023. Ant-Man 3, Guardians 3, and The Marvels, all cinematic releases in a single year. 2022, Doctor Strange 2, Thor 4, and Black Panther 2. 2021 - the year after the pandemic shut everything down - saw 4 releases, Eternals, Shang-Chi, Black Widow, and Spider-Man NWH.

Once we start dipping into the shows, it gets even bigger. 2021, as well as four movies, saw 5 series; Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, What If?, and Hawkeye. 2022 saw three movies and Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, and She-Hulk. 2023 gave us another 3 shows, between Secret Wars and seasons 2 of Loki and What If?.

I would say, "and these are just the Marvel stuff!" But to be frank, with Disney absorbing Fox and working with Sony, DC is the only competitor. I was gonna say "they can be discounted," since their only slated movie for 2024 is Joker 2 and 2025 is Superman, but they released four films in 2023 - Shazam 2, Aquaman 2, Flash and Blue Beetle - and both The Batman and Black Adam in 2022, so yeah, they're definitely also still contributing to the oversaturation.