#and Chilchuck is Chilchuck. There's no need to explain any further.

[doodlingwren]

Thank you for the tag! If somebody wants to take part in this, feel free to join! Have fun! (*^_^*)

Not me having some kinda type... Who shall I tag? I think I wanna tagggggg... @mybugsmybugsmybugs @mexicangela @lunar-years @biscuitboxpink but no pressure!! I just thought it would be fun!

[pyreo]

I'm comparing the Dungeon Meshi manga to episodes I just watched and now I gotta capital-p Post about this one episode (spoilers past Episode 12)

So this part is an emotional side-step from the central throughline so far - Laios and Marcille got Falin back successfully and reunited, and they got that payoff from the very beginning where they thought it would be impossible. But Chilchuck is very much a part of these layers of development, so after that dragon finally dies, we stop for a second - Laios and Marcille are recovering, Falin has disappeared again - how does Chilchuck feel at that point?

It's the perfect stage to insert that because he didn't really share in that sense of victory in the same way as Laios and Marcille recovering someone extremely close to them. And that's on purpose because he keeps everyone at arms' length. As soon as that arc hits its end and Falin is recovered, there's at last space to ask - why is Chilchuck even here.

He's asking himself that through the chapter. Now that they've lost the person they intended to save, he regrets agreeing to come.

And starts shouldering responsibility for everything ending up this way. We saw that when he got stuck in the mimic room before - he refuses to let himself ask for help, or he'll try to take burdens alone to lessen relying on others. The original Touden Party was six people, and when Laios insisted on going back underground they were two, and he knew they would die, and figured maybe, maybe if they were one more, with his skillset, maybe they'd have a chance. He couldn't let them walk back down just to die.

And he's going back to that mindset - their lives are on me. He thinks he could have prevented this if he'd chosen differently. Essentially, the walk alongside the orc woman is him working through a guilt spiral.

He sees a second chance to correct that mistake of joining the party. He wants them out now, before they die. The orc asks him how they defeated a dragon and, in explaining it, he reminds himself of all the risky, ridiculous things they had to do, and he isn't satisfied with just getting lucky. Laios got his foot bitten off, on purpose! This proves to him that if they go any further they will not survive. And he hints at this dissatisfaction a couple chapters later, wishing his teammates prioritised things other than winning at all costs...

Like, obviously. The point of this chapter is Chilchuck pretending to be a self-serving coward. To the point where others react with disdain, even disgust, towards him because he wants to lie to Marcille and Laios to ensure they turn back. He's desperate to get out of a hopeless situation by any means necessary, and will destroy his standing in the group in a blink if it means nobody else dies. He has to go on a stupid mental health walk for his stupid mental health and talk through his little bout of panic and doubt.

'You called me a coward so don't be surprised when I act accordingly'

He needs someone very blunt to tell him 'dude you're not being a coward for wanting your friends to get out of hell alive. you're a coward for making excuses instead of honestly telling them your concern is genuine' and he BSODs about it. He needs to rant and externalise that frustration over their recklessness at a third party. He needs to scream that they are idiots because he's the only one for which the ends don't justify the means and he can't keep losing his mind over everyone's safety. Down to a point, the orc praises their ability to survive the explosion from the dragon's fuel sac, and it only justifies Chilchuck - Falin didn't even know she could cast the spell that stopped them all being killed, and they cannot continue getting lucky like this.

Anyway. The reason I stopped to think about it was this part-

Where he recovers Laios's monster-infused sword. The thing that made their situation in the dragon fight go from bad to worse, that he swore at Laios for in every language he knew. The most angry we'd seen him. And now he calmly picks it up and praises it for being the only one of them smart enough to make a run for it.

He's projecting, obviously. He's internalising the label of 'coward' and changing himself to fit it. And, look at him, he's so tired of this. It's evidence of his sheer exhaustion that his anger immediately disappears and he actually gives it a compliment. Him and Laios's sword, the group cowards, the only one who agrees with him.

Then, because he had a walk before getting into the argument, he's organised his feelings and drops all the walls and pretense and just says it.

There's a rule of writing where you contrast your high energy sequences with parts that are slow and mundane, to make the difference more apparent. I think that's why I like this bit so much. The fight against the dragon is long, and the emotional stakes are enormous. Right after that we have the bath scene with Falin and Marcille, and Laios ruffling Falin's hair, and this part that pauses everything to explore the stuff that Chilchuck finally needs to say. And it's wrapped in this neat little solemn journey to pick up their supplies and remember how it felt when all five of them had a meal around a real dinner table at last.

And because he doesn't resort to individualistic trickery, because he explains his point as a duty of care rather than pitting himself against the others, he gets backed up. Senshi agrees that they don't have the supplies to continue, and the orc lady mentions her brethren will return later and can give them support, all of which together breaks down Laios's singleminded devotion to his cause.

Personally I think the manga's better suited to comic timing, but in the anime you can get fleshed out little moments, like Laios's face journey as he realises the other three are making a good case for their survival.

This was my favourite part so far, and I like how both Chilchuck-centric episodes have separated him from the others. Because he won't reveal anything he's thinking otherwise. lmao

[mekatrio]

giving dungeon meshi the second highest honor i can bestow to it: complaining about it (its ending specifically):

anyways the ending felt super rushed to me, almost like the author hadnt realized how long an ending with a cast this expansive would need to be, and ended up pacing it weirdly while also rushing some parts along the way. also these opinions of mine dont take into account any post-canon supplemental material, im judging the canon ending on an as-it-is basis, so maybe some of my gripes here get better explained in a bonus comic, but im not counting any of that rn. maybe later i will look back at this ending and feel better about it, but these are the impressions this ending had left on me as of now:

- laios becoming king makes sense when u consider the prophecy that this entire series prefaced itself with (the one who defeats the mad sorcerer will inherit the golden kingdom), but like.... it still feels somewhat out of place. its not a choice that i hate entirely, but i feel like the pacing towards this decision felt very off, when, in the ending to a series like this, shouldve felt more inevitable/final. it really did feel like there were numerous other options laios couldve taken on in the ending.

^these all felt like plausible outcomes to me

and while its somewhat logically explained that the only reasonable outcome for laios was for him to become king (cant leave the island to the long lived races and needs to take responsibility for.. saving the world?), this rationale for laios becoming king felt lacking in any emotional drama that i personally think this series' ending should have, especially considering that the events during the final climax just before this were extremely satisfyingly dramatic.

- izutsumi.... i can recognize that rui did her best to integrate her into the story and serve a narrative significance (barometz chapter succubi arc etc), and this did succeed to an extent, but it also felt like a case of too little too late.. the early arcs before izutsumi had very excellent pacing, with different chapters rotating its focus on a different party member effortlessly. it was during this time that the foundations of our main characters were really set up. izutsumi's late arrival meant that her character narrative had to squeeze itself between the other main characters' further developing narratives, alongside with the steadily developing climax, which had a whole other share of new character narratives it needed to develop (mithrun kabru thistle etc). this lack of breathing room for izutsumi made her feel kinda out of place in the overall narrative, when she, as a main party member, shouldve had more solid ground.

like for example, her yaad doll was barely mentioned until it was time to serve its narrative role (leading them out of the dungeon). looking back at the story, the doll was mentioned at least one other time besides its introduction and its narrative role:

^chp 85 in marcilles tower

but this happens during an extremely dramatic moment (marcille is losing her fucking shit) and this yaad doll mention ends up being overshadowed by it. i feel like the story shouldve called more attention to it; it's role as the plot key that lets the party safely escape the collapsing dungeon is a big role after all, and it shouldve been mentioned at a degree similar to shuro's bell or kensuke, two other objects that play a big role in the story's ending. but as ive said, izutsumi's character has to struggle to secure a spot with the various other rapidly developing narratives. this failure to cement izutsumi's bond with the yaad doll then had this important moment fall rather flat for me;

just like many other izutsumi moments that were meant to be emotional. izutsumi's character sadly didnt have enough time to stew and leave the bigger mark that she really should have, imo

- speaking of characters who didnt feel super impactful in the ending, i was disappointed that chilchuck and senshi didnt play bigger roles in the final climax. i think they played a significant role while marcille was the dungeon lord, but after that (while laios was the dungeon lord) they didnt really do much.. i wish we saw them do more when laios had turned into a monster, the way we see marcille lead the chase after demon-laios.

- also! why did the citizens of the golden land survive??? im so confused about that. like when i think about it i.. guess????? it makes sense?? bc they were cursed by thistle to remain in the dungeon otherwise they would turn to dust, but when thistle lost his desires, that curse was lifted, and they could return to the surface... i think??? but see, thats my problem w this, to make sense of this im doing a lot of guesswork, and something this significant shouldnt be left up to guesswork. i dont expect a story to explain every single detail about itself, especially with its ending; in fact some of my favorite endings are ones that leave certain details ambiguous, but this is an instance where there really should be some sort of explanation.. and the same can be said for why tf did thistle die! if he even died that is???? like man, so much is left up in the air, and the only really concrete things that happened are 1.) laios becomes king, and 2.) falin is resurrected. but my biggest gripe, the biggest thing imo that is not thoroughly explained when i really feel that it should be explained is....

- CAN PEOPLE JUST BE RESURRECTED NOW???????????? like marcille just spelt it out for us that they needed to learn to accept death, especially after spending such a long time in a dungeon where death is merely a suggestion, and yet.... falin was able to be resurrected outside of the dungeon?? does this mean Anyone can be resurrected outside of the dungeon, since the lines between a dungeon and the surface world have now been broken???? that cant be right, can it....??? didnt we just have 97 chapters of why People Should Not Live Forever And Need Food (taking the lives of other creatures) To Be Considered Alive? but how was falin able to be resurrected then??? 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 again, this is guesswork that I REALLY THINK should not have just been left to guesswork, man........ tho i do have an alternate explanation that kinda explains how she was able to survive, and ill hopefully post that at some point..