#and 2) i have no idea how in the greek myths persephone only ate 4; my roommate and i were eating them by the handfuls

[sweetearthandnorthernsky]

for no particular reason, i feel like pomegranate seeds are very popular snacks in gondor

[finelythreadedsky]

so persephone eats 6 pomegranit seeds right? BUT pomegranits have like 200-1400 so thats an average lets say of 600, so would would she be contractally obligated for 6 months instead of 3 and a half days?????? or is the 3 seeds thing not in the text or somthing else? thank you for knowing things !

so the thing is that the number of seeds/amount of time spent in the underworld thing varies A LOT depending on which text you’re looking at, and they’re actually often not at all linked

the homeric hymn to demeter (the oldest surviving narrative of persephone’s abduction, c. late 7th/early 6th century bce) actually uses the singular and indicates she ate only ONE pomegranate seed: αὐτὰρ ὅ γ᾽ αὐτὸς/ῥοιῆς κόκκον ἔδωκε φαγεῖν μελιηδέα λάθρῃ (371-2, “he secretly gave her a pomegranate’s honey-sweet seed to eat”) then later αὐτὰρ ὃ λάθρῃ/ ἔμβαλέ μοι ῥοιῆς κόκκον, μελιηδέ᾽ ἐδωδήν (411-12, “he pushed a pomegranate’s seed onto me, honey-sweet food”). and in the homeric hymn, she’s supposed to spend a third of the year in the underworld, so four months (446-7). in this telling the number of seeds and amount of time in the underworld are not at all connected.

ovid’s metamorphoses (c. 8 ce), says seven pomegranate seeds (5.536-8) and six months in the underworld (5.565-7), with apparently no connection between those numbers. ovid’s fasti (unfinished c. 8 ce) says three pomegranate seeds (4.607-8) and six months in the underworld (4.613-4) and “six months” is literally rendered as “twice three,” possibly suggesting a connection between the number of seeds and months in the underworld, but it’s not explicit and it’s not a one-to-one connection. (and like. i’m wary of taking ovid too seriously, as always, but his two tellings definitely do reflect that there wasn’t a fixed or “canonical” number of seeds. that seems to have been one of the details individual authors played with.)

and of shorter/more cursory tellings: hyginus (late 1st century bce/1st century ce) doesn’t mention the pomegranate seed(s) but says she spent six months in the underworld (146), and (pseudo-)apollodorus (1st/2nd century ce) follows the homeric hymn and says it was one seed (actually copying some of the exact language: ῥοιᾶς ἔδωκεν αὐτῇ φαγεῖν κόκκον) and four months of the year in the underworld (1.5)

the general trend seems to be that earlier/greek authors say she spends four months in the underworld and later/roman authors say six months, but that’s not a hard-and-fast rule. the number of seeds (and any connection between number of seeds and number of months) tends to vary a lot between authors, and even (in the case of ovid) between different works of the same author. so i don’t think any of that quite answers your question, but i’m now really curious about where the idea of 6 seeds=6 months (or 4 seeds=4 months) came from, because that’s often the version that we just know, but it actually isn’t in any of the major texts that tell the story (unless i’m missing something? if so please do sound off in the replies).

anyway it sure does sound like she could have eaten more seeds and it wouldn’t have affected the amount of time, since the portion of the year she spends in the underworld is usually just about the fact that she ate SOMETHING, rather than exactly how much she ate. i guess there’s no reason to assume 1 seed=1 month rather than 1 pomegranate=1 year (and thus 1 seed=half a day or so)-- both are equally absent in the homeric hymn, which is probably the most important text for this story-- but a most unsourced myth tellings (think myth books for kids, encyclopedias, etc.) tend to go the 1 seed=1 month route.

[translationandbetrayals]

Why kamigami no asobi is a waste

  (disclaimer this a critic made for the 1-3 chapters of the anime series, also I don’t know all mythologies so I can get something wrong)

Kamigami no asobi is a franchise of otome games made in japan who also launched an anime in 2013It features multiple culture gods (Greek Egypt Nordic Japanese) because they cause bad karma and that affects human for that Zeus make an academy for these young-looking gods learn about love and humanity. The history is about a single Japanese student who has to take care of them.

The first problem I get is character and accuracy to chosen them. Zeus is by far the weakest of any of leaders of any of the mythologies and being the one of order kill all a generation of humans + give permission to give pandora the box because he wants to make her marry Prometheus and make him miserable. And he is charge in run a place to show love for humans, is messed up. Second “hades and Apollo problem” 1 Hades is happily married, with Persephone. He is very loyal to her even taking harsh punishment’s when she was kidnap by  Pirítoo ft. Teseo. So, love isn’t a thing they can teach him so. Also, Hades is brother of Zeus, he is the same as him so Zeus hasn’t a right for him. Also what all this stuff of “he bring the bad luck with him” come on is the king of all riches down in earth, death and invisible things he can’t be “that unlucky” like Friday 13 unlucky, I kind of get It for the Heracles myth(the guy get down to get Cerberus, Hades say no but Heracles threatens him with arrows whit the venomous blood of hydra) but if it was a hydra arrow  it would be venomous  not a curse.And about Apollo the myth about the laurel is all about “you can’t force love “so neither. Also, they made him so kind and dandy, but him is a brat sadist. When someone threats him with a “I sing or do stuff better” he asks the thunder out of Zeus and only ashes remain. Maybe he really has a reason to be there but they will never show that things.  I can’t very do this analysis in the other mythologies for short Loki and Thor. All I know Thor is the protector of humanity so discarded and both know about romantic love at least. Then are the Japanese gods I think are ok like basically. Then the Egyptians god Thoth and Anubis Thoth are fine but I really want to see this two with the animal heads it could be funny, Anubis is depicted as a light hearted thing he don’t have any depth .at all. And because he isn’t the only Egyptian god of death, I don’t get why only him. And death is kind of a big stuff in the ancient Egypt is all about the pyramids and mommies are about, they prepare for that and like it. I can continue but is exhausting.

Figure 2 Anubis i will revenge your head

 Is a waste and a big mess, join all this forces together to make a better world, it doesn’t has to feel that bland, because all 4 of this mythologies has styles of lives different so 4 ways to think, is sad that all has to dress the same uniform the most of time, is sad they have to ate the same and don’t have time to talk about different food, because Nordics eats more meats and fish and dairies and Greeks has fruits cheese, olives based diet and black soup Japanese is has a diet similar to Nordics and could make something great about sharing experiences and information and it doesn’t. The boys don’t interact a lot between, and could be more chaotic specially for being the beginning days, it seems nobody is there because they want, maybe they don’t have magic but still they can make a riot specially in part of Thor and the Japanese gods.

Also the last thing is the protagonist center history, all by the stupid mind of a 16 year old girl that have to look at least 6 gods who are way older than she,  that’s the worst part because we don’t know what is happening if we don’t see it, also is the only one and the rest of people who fill the school are soulless clones of people, that’s bad specially is you want to do something fast to fix the karma. The gods go to the only person that care because there’s no more. Maybe Thot being a counselor but it isn’t the fittest to the job. If were more people who want to connect to the past it could be better boys and girls trying to understand what happened and how to help, is significantly

more interesting that only see a girl who don’t know better.

The idea of mythology mixing is a very interesting one but see it getting used is very rare, it could be a heart breaking story, about strangers that became friend to get a common goal save the world because is worth protecting it, if you chose good the characters and make a good quantity of research, is possible do a good story of connection of cultures that’s is something is happening right now with the globalization phenomena. We need history’s that show us that we can convive together, and that’s is why Kamigami no Asobi is a waste.

by Francisca Valenzuela

[ginnyzero]

Booktober 2020 Week 4: Classic & Myth

Welcome back to booktober! Booktober is the month I talk about books; in particular I’m talking about horror and paranormal books. Okay, so Booktober isn’t a thing but we can make it a thing. Anyone is welcome to join me in booktober at any time. Just use the hashtag booktober and if you at me, ginnyzero, on social media I’ll reblog your post. 

This week it’s time to delve into the past, classic and historical horror and paranormal. Fun fact about Ginny, I was born on November 8th. Who else was born on November 8th? Bram Stoker, the writer of Dracula. This could partially explain my early obsession with vampires and my necrophobia; the fear and fascination with death.

Dracula, the story itself, is one of those stories that’s been so regurgitated by popular culture that the basics of the story are known by about everyone. The book itself is written in an expository way and so if you like that type of reading, then you’ll like the book. I like watching or reading different remakes of the idea rather than the book itself. Hellsing, Van Helsing, NBC’s 2013 Dracula, and so on and so forth.

My favorite classical horror story is from Edgar Allen Poe, and is ironically rather appropriate for these telling times as it is the Mask of the Red Death. And in the Mask of the Red Death, plague haunts the land killing everyone, so the nobles lock themselves away in a castle with a beautiful and fancy imperial suite and they determine to party the plague away. Until the man in the mask of the red death comes and they all fall down.

It’s a beautifully written and chilling story that I’ve enjoyed since high school. You can’t run away from pandemics and death.

Poe enjoyed drawing on real historical stories for his works, such as the black plague in the Mask of the Red Death. But he also drew upon one of the stories in Glamis Castle, considered one of the most haunted castles in Scotland. Glamis is popular enough to show up in a lot of horror books because of the different tales in it are so outrageous ranging from secret rooms a la the folktale Bluebeard, to the devil coming to play cards, and horrifically, a group of men or a family being bricked up inside the walls until they had to commit cannibalism.

Castle ghosts are some of absolute favorite real life paranormal phenomena because they come with such rich stories behind them. Most of the paranormal phenomena in castles are audial. Hearing voices, such as the Lord of Glamis and the Devil playing dice and laughing at Glamis. Or even hearing pipers, such as the doomed Piper of Duntrune Castle who played his pipes to warn his clan of the Campbell Clan’s treachery, and they cut off his hands and buried him under the flagstones of the courtyard. (And yes, they did find a skeleton without hands buried within the castle grounds of one castle with a piper ghost.) There is an entire phenomena called grey or green ladies, these are ghosts of women who protect castles and castle ruins. Many of them were young women who fell in love with the wrong man and committed suicide when their families wouldn’t let them marry them. Very common theme.

The United States doesn’t have many castles. Not ones with the history of Europe, we do have a lot of penitentiaries and insane asylums that are haunted by the inmates, residents, and employees that look like castles. And if you watch the Dead Files, there are places in the states the land is bad. There’s no other word for it, people should not be living on the land. I think the most detrimental thing Protestantism has done is convince people spiritual and paranormal phenomena aren’t real. Catholicism has a heavy focus on mysticism and the influence of the devil.

If you watch the Dead Files, there are so many interesting things going on with ‘normal’ homes in the states from homes being situated on pathways for the dead, to bad land, to malevolent earth spirits, to even portals to alien dimensions that can’t be closed. That one was freaky because the spiritual alien entity was scratching the side of the house. And the worst thing that can happen is when someone doesn’t believe in it. 9 times out of 10 it makes things worse.

The one phenomena I’ve had some personal experience with is one of our naval ships, called the USS The Sullivans. Now, the USS The Sullivans is named after 5 Sullivan brothers who died at sea during World War Two after their ship was sank by a Japanese submarine. The Sullivan brothers became the reason for the important policy of not putting family on the same ship. They built a Fletcher Class destroyer, a small destroyer, in their honor and it was sponsored by their mother. The ship served in World War 2 and the Korean War and ended as a training ship in the 6th fleet before being designated as a museum ship and eventually stationed in Buffalo.

Sometime after being commissioned and being docked at the Naval Museum, the spirits of the Sullivan Brothers found their way to the ship named after them. Employees have reported lights turning on and off, they’ve seen the brothers, they have come upon locked doors that should be unlocked and vice versa. I think they’ve also heard voices and footsteps when it was supposed to be empty at the end of the day. Pretty typical stuff for a haunted ship and haunted places in general.

I have been to the naval museum. And I got through the tiny submarine the Croaker, and walked through the larger destroyer the USS Little Rock and everything was fine, lovely day, until I got to the ramp of the Sullivans. I didn’t know the ship was haunted at the time. They don’t warn you about this. As soon as I got to the ramp, something felt off. You could not pay me to go on that ship. No way. Absolutely not. I decided having seen the Little Rock and being reassured by my dad, the Sullivans was more of the same, I would not risk my skin and go on board the Sullivans. I stand by this decision.

I love my dad, but I’m not sure how spiritually sensitive he is to these type of phenomena.

Now, I have been on board the Aircraft carrier in New York City and felt a little weirded out on the electronic section because of the heat and static in the air but never since have I felt that sense of dread I did at the end of the ramp of the Sullivans.

Horror has been going on from the very beginning of storytelling and it’s older than dirt at this point with tales such as Beowulf and stories sanitized by the Grimm Brothers as they translated them from oral tradition for the Victorians. My personal favorite which how horrifying it is depends on your point of view and interpretation of the story is Hades and Persephone.

Now, the basic gist of the myth is grim Hades wants a wife and he decides on his niece Persephone asking Zeus, her father, for her hand. Zeus goes to Demeter. Demeter says absolutely not. Zeus goes back to Hades and is like “well, bro, her mom says no, but um, you’ve got my blessing to carry her off in traditional Greek style and marry her.” This was completely legit in Greek culture as long as dad’s permission was granted. (Great time to be a woman, not.)

Hades does so and well, we all know what happens is Demeter gets angry and causes a famine. Zeus panics and goes “hey, bro, we need Persephone back, my wife is going to kill all of us.” Since, you know most of Olympus’ problems are created by Zeus. And Hades is like “Fine, she can come back, as long as she hasn’t ate anything.” And Persephone, had ate 3 to 6 pomegranate seeds and they ended up compromising where Persephone lived with Hades part time as his cold queen, and the rest of her time with her mother, as the personification of spring.

So, the horror comes in on if Persephone was actually involved in this or not. Did she know anything? Was this a surprise? Was she looking to escape her overbearing mother? Did she love Hades? Was she in on the plan and ate the pomegranate seeds on purpose? Were they actually pomegranate seeds? Your interpretation may vary, so the horror could be having to go back to the overbearing mother or her being taken away without her consent to the grim Underworld.

It all seemed to work out in the end. There seems to be only one myth Hades cheated on Persephone and she turned that woman in to mint. (Don’t mess with Persephone.) But otherwise, Hades was faithful to Persephone and they had a lot of children included the personification of nightmares.

Obviously, my favorite folklore creature is the werewolf. Now, I’m talking about the werewolf in the context of folklore only. I’m not talking about the werewolf as presented by Universal Studios or any of the movies after 1935. The folklore werewolf was not considered evil or associated with the devil until the later Witch Hunts of the late 1500s to the 1700s. Before this, the werewolf was considered mostly benign and quite possibly someone who had been cursed by the church itself for punishment of perceived misdeeds.

The culture of the middle ages didn’t view being able to turn into an animal as bad or even evil. In fact, the church itself, most likely relying on the story of Nebuchadnezzar in the Old Testament, was thought to be able to curse people into take the shapes of wolves. The fear of curses and poxes had real power back then. It wasn’t shameful to be a werewolf, it was shameful to act like an animal without thought or reason.

Conclusion: You could be an animal, as long as you spoke with reason and didn’t attack people indiscriminately. Go ahead, be wild. Just don’t act like you aren’t civilized.

The Werewolves of Ossory in Ireland meld most of the ideas of middle age werewolves into several stories. They were warriors who would take on animalistic traits while fighting similar to Norse berserkers, or were able to transform into actual wolves using a wolf pelt much like a selkie or a swan maiden have pelts and capes, or they projected their souls from the bodies to be wolves. They were looking to make up for past misdeeds. Some stories say they were forced to change every seven years. Cursing men into wolves is a common trick of St. Patrick apparently. Or if you angered your wife by cheating on her for instance, she could curse into being a werewolf.

There were other ways to be turned into a werewolf. Some people were considered born as werewolves. You could drink water from the paw print of a wolf. Or as an adult, pass under a birch arch entwined with a wild rose briar three times. Or even by sleeping out under the full moon for three nights. The Yule werewolves, would like to come out during the holiday of yule and party drinking and dancing.

There were “cures” for werewolfism, mostly the use of wolfsbane or even exorcism and some torture because the Spanish Inquisition. But most werewolves lived peaceably with their neighbors and outside of what you might consider the “uglification” of the ‘savage’ before being converted to Christianity, no one noticed until they went on a wolf hunt and hurt the wolf or hurt the body of a soul traveling wolf and it was converted into an injury on the human.

Like Middle Ages witchcraft, unless it involved heresy, werewolfism was ignored and in some places such as Norway, female werewolves were even venerated. There were even laws instituted about to protect them unless it involved blasphemy and heresy.

Folklore and legends are extremely interesting because the way they changed over time and even by location and the way they were written about in Christian sources of the time, which outside of some written down oral tradition and actual laws are the only way we know about these creatures.

Next week is personal week! Time to talk about personal paranormal and horror things related to my writing and what I’d like to see in the future and just go wild. If anyone wants to join me in promoting themselves this last week of October, here is a handy dandy image!