#also thanks to batthew for indulging me and letting me spout nonsense about my two favorite criminals in the jianghu

[magnaflourious-nerdity]

So the ask got deleted accidentally, but @autisticharrywells asked me about SANGYAO for toxic ship bingo, and now that I have forcibly dragged them through all 50 episodes, i can at last go off---- you FOOL! you have fallen directly into my trap!!! Muahahaha

I do not know how I ended up here. I don't know WHY I ended up here, except that I'm some kind of masochist.

Like I was all prepared to be 100% team wangxian otp and read all the fic and shit, and I started out so promising. (And I do love them...) But then. Then. That little demon brought a bird to class. And the other little demon protected him during the Wen thing. The stabbing ?? The warning as Meng Yao was leaving to huaisang DESPITE actively bleeding. The pleading to Mingjue to let Meng Yao stay despite no evidence of Huaisang ever really standing up to question NMJ decisions before like that (esp in front of other clan members) (other than with things like blowing off Sabre practice) THE FAN CLENCH. MY HEART. And THEN they committed their various atrocities during which the no turning back point was hit for them so many times and yet i do believe the remorse was there and so too was some affection still, twisted as it was by time and hatred and isolation and i... I just....I slipped?

There's so much there!!! (and please keep in mind I'm mostly talking from a cql/the untamed perspective, though I have seen the donghua and am aware of book cannon, I just kinda prefer the show as the version I take to heart (with some notable jgy or Huaisang based exceptions bc i'm nothing if not willing to excuse their pretty boy mid-divorce war crimes))

These two have such a deep shared history that spans the entirety of the cannon, and their relationship is extra fascinating on rewatch as you can more clearly track the downward spiral of events.

There's also the tragedy that it COULD have been avoided, was so close to being avoided several times bc JGY is not really EVIL, (any one who says this is being super reductive imo) but he does preserve himself above all other things and people through sheer learned necessity (with the exception of xichen and isn't that also a beautiful part of sangyao tragedy?? That so clearly xichen and JGY were destined to be the tragic counterparts to wwx and lwj's relationship not nhs and jgy? That xichen was the only thing JGY ever sacrificed true parts of himself for, that huaisang knows that he could have done the same for him, but didn't? Because there was too much history with Mingjue to let it go, and also bc the devotion or affection he held for huaisang when they were both on the mountain never surpassed that point. He had too much caution to truly be himself, and Huaisang, I don't think could ever truly see past JGYs status in the way that xichen was able to since he served as his big brother's vice general and also his appointed companion to a degree. ) And where does that leave huaisang? Where he always is. ALONE. On a mountain he never fit in on in the first place. Where does it leave JGY? Stuck in a permanant customer service role to his awful father and branded further untrustable as a spy. Humilated and broken down to the point of just. So much murder. (Some of which I still maintain tain as a public service coughcoughJinGuangShancoughcough)

They are so much alike and yet so different in such key aspects, that I also have to believe they were meant to act as parallels to one another, just like wwx and jgy, or xichen and wangji. The planning and manipulation they both do (in their own ways bc i am in the camp that while huaisang is smarter than the average bear, smarter than he ever wants to let on bc it makes his life easier, he isnt able to truly outpace JGY's ability to craft a situation. What he is good at is manipulating people and social situations, and adapting his outlined plan extremely well on the fly- with the exception of maybe xichen. I dont think he meant to truly hurt xichen like that. I think that was a natural panic that if JGY was allowed to live it would mean Huaisang actually had to die at some point instead, Though I do also think perhaps there is some lingering resentment there that leads to it to bc why is JGY worth pardoning after his crimes to xichen? Doesn't this mean he inherently valued JGY over Mingjue, over Huaisang’s own pain and anguish? (he did, but not maliciously, lans are love blind we know this))

The tragedies of nie huaisang are inextricably linked to the tragedies of jgy and vice versa! Technically, huaisang, as a bastard of the clan leader with one of his concubines, (I think that's right) should be discounted as a noble son, esp considering his weaker nature and lack of talents dictated to be valuable by the standards of the nie clan. He should have the same status really or at least a status more closely similar to jgy who is constatly looked down on because of his mother's position and bastard status, despite his constant hyper competency, as we see so vividly. And yet Huaisang is given title and rank and (some) respect where JGY gets trodden into the mud and shit of life, even as he succeeds in raising the jin clans success through his actions and talents. Meanwhile, huaisang is thought to be a useless leech by others, untalented in the ways of ruling or anything that's deemed an actually respectable skill by clan leader standards. A pathetic little dude who doesn't know how to do anything, and yes, he does get cast as a headshaker in the eyes of the people, but it's never his background thats brought into question as to why he might be failing. It's considered a result of his personality, not his upbringing. And even then he doesn't get shit talked as much as JGY does. Huaisang has all the privilege that JGY was never afforded, and does that color JGYs view a bit? Does it make him just bitter enough that, when combined with his father’s looming threats and taunts, and Mingjue’s inability to ever let anything JGY does go, that he's willing to hurt huaisang in such a way, even just as a byproduct of his mission?

Huaisang’s plan is successful, bc people discount him as incompetent, yes, but also bc they still see him as a noble, as someone of enough inherent value, diminished though it may be, that he weilds that influence even when playing the fool. JGY doesn't get that respect even at his height of his power and competency as a ruler.

They are, neither of them, strong cultivators. But that factor only really affects JGY bc it means he has to fight even harder for acceptance and validation. Huaisang also gets the luxury of CHOOSING not to be a strong cultivator. Because his position in life IS secure, he can slack off. He is allowed to try his hardest to avoid the fate of his family and do his utmost not to cultivate in that manner. Which I think, too, causes some of the resentment. On both sides. Huaisang never has to work a day in his life, has barely any expectations to live up to and still gets the respect Meng Yao is constantly robbed of. And for huaisang- On top of killing his brother via musically-induced, full-bodied rage embolism, JGY is now also the reason that huaisang is thrust into a position he was entirely unprepared for way before he was supposed to be.

And we know, we KNOW that JGY is responsible for so many of Huaisang’s pretty little things. His beloved indulgences granted not by his own brother, but by his doting san-ge. Things that got burned or destroyed by Mingjue simplu for the fact that a) they were from JGY and B) they are not the type of things NMJ cosidereds respectabke hobbies or skills. A large number of his fans and painting supplies are gifts from JGY, and he stood up for and encouraged those hobbies against the person he probably fears the most at that point, Mingjue (even if he's already actively trying to kill him by then). And huaisang seemed genuinely pleased that JGY had found acceptance and was getting what he (thought he) wanted. The friendship and affection was real, just not near strong enough to withstand the crimes of the other.

And oh boy that divorce was rough and bloody and beautiful and tragic and I just love the messy nature of the relationship, how deep and how twisted it went and became. And i think, right up until the very end, JGY didn't truly want to believe that Huaisang was capable of doing this to him, I don't think he ever wanted to hurt huaisang again the way he had to when he killed Mingjue. Use him? Maybe. But not in a malicious way, not by his standards.

I am happy to read any sangyao content I can get, however! I love reading about them as companions on the mountain, growing together, bonding. Maybe young and in love? I love reading the gradual drifting apart. The years they schemed and used each other. The final divorce. And what comes after. Or what could never be. Any content, I will take, and it depends on where in cannon we are that a particular square is filled in.

Jgy had to fight for both acceptance and sheer survival, and huaisang never really had to do either. Except maybe during the ~10 years of the gap when Huaisang had figured him out, but was pretending to be useless to achieve his ends. You could argue the mindset that aside from just avenging his DaGe, he was also concerned about his own survival bc what if he became an Inconvienience instead of just the annoyance he was playing up to be? If he actually stood in Guanyao's way? It would be much easier to take him out than Mingjue, realistically. But what would be that threshold to have JGY actually do anything? Are Huaisang’s histrionics and uselessness useful to him? Or a result of guilty indulgence? Or left over fondness from a ti.e they were so close? Some combo of all? Who can say and I fucking love that uncertainty about them

Saying all that, these two are the poster child for OTP I don't want to end up together in Canon, lol. Unless it's one of the many time travel fix it aus, they simply have too much history and shared issues and rage between them to ever make sense working out. But their stories are so incomplete without the other, they are inexorably linked, and I just think they're neat!

(Please don't come for me cql fans. im sure I've misunderstood or posted an opinion that's utterly debatable on here. But like, also. I'm tired and I love them and I don't care.)

I have more to say about them that you'll probably get to hear at some point when we talk, but for now, they have BROKEN MY BRAIN.

Also, to all my fellow sangyao peeps: please feel free to send fic recs if you want. I am so hungry for the content.