#also it doesn't make sense the writers didn't want rory to say yes to logan's proposal cus they wanted her to be 'independent'

[folkloremay]

the real gilmore girls is s1-5 to me the rest is a shitshow

[stellaluna33]

What do you make of that car scene where Rory is ranting about Jess and how she "doesn't like the things she does" with him? I was always confused by it because what things? Going to a party and making out on a stranger's bed? Going to a concert without telling your mom? Because those things are very tame compared to what she later did with Dean and Logan, yet we don't get such a scene with them even though it would have been so much more fitting. Jess antis point out this scene to show how the relationship was toxic but I don't see it, it just seems like the show is telling us one thing but showing something completely different. Yet on my new Rory poll, so many people reblogged and commented that they started disliking her when she fell for Logan and saying that was the moment her character went downhill! Not Jess. Do you think the writers originally planned for Jess to be the big mistake Rory makes, but then decided to add Logan as an afterthought in her college years because they didn't know what other storylines to give her? But even so, Jess and Rory didn't get nearly enough scenes exploring their relationship before Rory suddenly crying that she doesn't like who she became around Jess, and we don't see her acting out of character around him ever, so it all just falls flat.

Yeah, I don't know, honestly. My best guess has always been that she was expressing frustration with the way she tended to be too timid to confront Jess about the things that bothered her, which actually IS something that was a frustrating change from their PRE-dating relationship to their DATING relationship. Rory used to feel comfortable telling Jess when she was unhappy with what he was doing (and he tended to respond well, even! That's part of how they grew closer!). But, for some reason, when they started dating, she started feeling afraid to bring things up. She left him that impulsive, angry answering machine message, yes... But then when he showed up, she chickened out and asked him to delete it without listening to it (who knows if he actually did, haha!) and I think THAT'S what she hated herself for (not going to the concert)- that she felt afraid to rock the boat. And then after the disastrous party, there's that whole sequence where she wants to approach the diner to talk to Jess, but then chickens out (and Jess does the same). For whatever reason, she was afraid to tell him how she felt, and he wouldn't tell her how HE was feeling either!

That's something that actually really frustrates ME about their dating relationship too, so it's interesting to think about the possibility that Rory was ALSO aware that she was doing that, and was frustrated by it, but maybe couldn't understand why she was acting that way. I don't necessarily think that means that it was Jess's FAULT either, but it was something that was broken in their relationship.

I don't know if the writers intended to make any comparisons to OTHER relationships there, either? It might have just been about them. Milo was leaving, so Jess had to leave, so the relationship had to be sunk, I don't know. But it is interesting that Rory does ALSO compromise herself for the other guys- and in larger and more catastrophic ways- and yet she didn't seem to see it that way with them (maybe her rueful "despite all the bad he's done, I'm in love with him" is a similar sentiment?). I really don't know. Maybe the other guys were just more likely to talk her round to a particular point of view, which made it easier for her to rationalize it with "It made sense at the time" afterwards. Kind of ironic.

[at-thestillpoint]

For your fic writer ask meme: 5, 20, 22!

[ask me things!]

5. What’s a fic idea you’ve had that you will never write?

THERE ARE SO MANY. There's the Rory says yes to Logan and they figure out how to do long distance when they're in their early 20s fic that I dream about but won't ever commit the time to. There's the one that explores the year (see what I did?) after Logan finds out Rory didn't tell them about their kid that I want to get to someday, but it's going to take so many words, and we've seen how long it takes me to write things. I have couple half-written post-season 6 explorations for Seal Team (I am decidedly un-immune to military propaganda shows) that would break my heart to finish at this point. And it's looking increasingly unlikely that I'll ever finish my F1/ballet modern AU of Little Women, but I'm still holding out hope for myself on that one.

20. What’s a favorite title for a fic you’ve written?

In a time-honored AO3 tradition, I steal song lyrics and make them lowercase for my fic titles, so I don't actually feel that attached to any of them. Various snippets of Cowboy Take Me Away ended up being even more perfect for this universe than I could have imagined, so maybe that? I do have a silly habit of naming every fic before I really get into writing them, though, and I love the title I gave the Rory-doesn't-tell-Logan fic: bold alone among the wreck. For that reason alone, I might push myself to actually write it someday.

22. Do you know how your fic will end before you start writing?

Almost always! (This is, perhaps, the beauty of writing ship-focused fics.) A lot of the time, it's a vague sense of where I want things to end emotionally. Other times, the ending is actually incredibly defined. With as high as you can into the wild blue, I actually had a very big chunk of the last chapter written before I'd written anything else. I also twisted myself into knots making sure I could keep "transitive property of home" in the last line of texas man. With my first foray into PJO world, the last lines, "Yes, the Sea God means but does not say. Yes, of your mother, and of you." were the second and third sentences I wrote. The first was the first sentence of the fic.

So I usually know where I'm starting and ending, and it's a matter of figuring out how to get from point A to point B realistically and with emotional logic. I used to do a lot more plotting of the journey, but that ended up with me not writing at all, because I couldn't think myself past plot holes or emotional needs. I've gotten better at writing myself through those now, but in general, I need to know where I'm going to be able to do that.

[nelllover]

This is all so true! Logan constantly gaslights Rory, makes her doubt herself, talks her out of her feelings and ends up making her feel unsure of herself, he literally toys with her and plays mind games with her at first and ghosts her leaving her wondering what she has done wrong. He makes her feel so bad about herself while at the same time not being able to leave him even when he does. Exactly like Dean is shitty but Logan is so so shitty and people overlook his red flags so often and pretend he's perfect. Like yeah they had a few cute moments and where he wasn't a total ass but the overall time of there relationship he was horrible to her and he did cause her to start changing herself for him to the point where she started to feel lost! He cheats on her then gaslights her and invalidates her feelings for it! Like some people may or may not view it as cheating but the fact of the matter is Rory felt cheated and he completely invalidated her! He blame shifts all the time. The conversation where he starts yelling at her in the pub about "I didn't tell her to quit Yale you did that" like she wasn't even talking about him but he made it all about himself flipped it around to make it like "don't you dare blame me" she wasn't even blaming him. I could go on and on about all the reasons Logan makes me so mad! It's so cathartic that you feel the same! Sorry about my long rant I saw your tags and yeah it's all so true!

First of all, never apologize for ranting it's my favorite thing and second I agree 100% with you!!

The scene with Rory crying on the bathroom floor will always make me sad and the fact that I've seen so many of the Rogan shippers talk about that scene like it's proof that he's the bf that Rory loved the most (no I'm not kidding they really count that scene as a win) when personally I think it's the start of the toxic cycle that is their relationship.

The cycle is: They get together something happens they fight instead of dealing with it Logan ghosts her and then he shows up out of nowhere and expects everything to go back to normal (and sadly most of the time Rory lets it slide :( )

My biggest problem with Dean is that he gives me the vibe that at any second he could get physically abusive but at least in canon he doesn't do anything as bad as Logan (altho he definitely manipulated the hell out of Rory and Lindsey in the S4 arc) and like I get why he's the most hated but at the same time, I really think that title should go to Logan (Dean's biggest crime in canon is having absolutely no personality).

Honestly to me, any cute Rogan moment gets overshadowed by the fact that Logan treats Rory like a rug 99% of the time (also most of those moments are so cringy like the 'workdork' thing were the S7 writers trying so badly to make them have a 'booktease' scene I'm sure of it)

On the Rory changing thing I agree 100%. Rory in S5 was trying to play a role she was trying so badly to be what she thought Logan wanted that she lost herself (which I think contributed to the breakdown that she had in S6) and Logan didn't even realize because let's be honest he doesn't know her! The man didn't even know her birthday!!

And yes people need to understand that if to Rory it felt like cheating then it was cheating (granted I don't think there is any way to not make it sound like cheating but don't ask them to make sense) and his weird Ross Geller like speech doesn't change that!!!

The scene in the pub is so funny to me in the sense that she didn't say shit about him she was talking about herself but he got so butthurt! like damn you called yourself out! she didn't have to say anything!

The thing is that yes, Rory is an adult and she made a choice but that does not change the fact that Logan was more than happy about it he didn't try to talk to her about it. I'm not saying that he should have dragged her back to Yale but he didn't try and as her boyfriend, he needs to be real with her and call her out when she's doing something stupid! (and guess who actually does that)

See no reason to apologize about the length of your rant I did worst!!

[anxiouspotatorants]

Honestly with the exception of like, the last 2.5 episodes of season 3 (and I say 2.5 because Jess was ready and willing to go to the prom with Rory in ep 19), I don't consider Jess and Rory's relationship to be as horrible as many people who hate him do. Yes, he wasn't completely honest in certain moments (like with the swan attack) and there were other moments where their lack of communication proved to be a problem for Rory, but I feel like they found an equal footing of sorts in their relationship by the time episode 18 comes around. Like you hear about Jess spending time with her every weekend, doing movie nights and organizing meetups with each other. And that's when shit hits the fan by the time the end of the season comes around. And when it does, it is AWFUL, but before that, it really did feel like Jess was also learning the wheels behind what Rory wanted as well and was not only willing to hear her out but also respected her perspective. Like I can even say that in certain moments like with Dean, Jess was kind of even better than Logan because sure, he was insecure and jealous, but he didn't ever take it out on Rory for that. He just wanted her to let him know when she'd hang out with Dean, he didn't forbid her from it or taunt her once she did.

Oh I have so many thoughts about this (some I've probably shared before, but it's been a while and I want to rant literati) that I simply have to apologize because this is going to be a long one:

So first off, not only do I think Jess is a flawed boyfriend, but I'm glad that he is. A lot of shows featuring teen romance have a tendency to write them either really soapy or like the perfect coupling between two teens with the emotional maturity and experience of somebody in their 30s. I really appreciate that ASP and the writers' room kept Rory's first three big relationships flawed in a way that made sense. Yes, her and Jess are incredibly smart and right for each other, but they're also allowed to be childish and mess up as they figure out what they want to be to each other.

Second, I think that he was both a flawed boyfriend and a good one. Like you said, Jess did learn and improve whenever the opportunity presented itself. Once he was with Rory he actually revealed how mature he could be: he changed when she opened up about her wants but also set boundaries for himself, he didn't isolate her from others, he made an effort with her family and befriended her friends, he made compromises on activities and was calm and patient around romantic rivals. What made their relationship doomed to fail is something you find in a lot of couples anyway: crap self-esteem and an inability to share and display vulnerability. At first that inability could be overlooked, because it was about swans and rowdy exes, but when bigger issues occured (like getting behind on school and his dad appearing) that inability blew a massive hole in their relationship. This doesn't make him a horrible person, just somebody who needed to work on himself in order to make relationships work. (Also I don't read that scene as badly as some do, but the bedroom scene at Lane's gig can be really hard to swallow. The writers could easily have written this to go a lot darker than they did, and I don't shame anyone who are unable to root for Jess after it.)

Now I can't speak for all of Logan's run as a boyfriend (I remember so little about seasons 6 and 7 and it's taken me basically two years to reach them now), but from a seasons 1-5 perspective Jess is the obvious best boyfriend in my mind. Both because of how suitable he was with Rory on several levels (interests, intellect, understanding) but also because of how differently each of them reacted to the same issues. Whenever Dean caught wind of potential romantic rivals he would get loud and angry and often blame Rory simply for existing and being kind and unprejudiced. When Jess was made fully aware of how Dean planned to 'steal' Rory back, he remained calm and asked only to be in the know of Rory's friendship with Dean. When Dean got egged on by Jess he grabbed every bait and then some. When Logan fished for fights with Jess, he consciously kept himself on a leash and left when he realized he couldn't anymore. When Jess was confronted by Rory about her feelings for him and then for her wish to be spoiled, he listened and did what he could to set things in order. When Rory calmly told Logan that she wanted a relationship and respected his lack of desire for one, he lashed out and accused her of forcing him into something he didn't want before doing a 180 and begging to be her boyfriend. When Jess was made aware that his pranks were actually hurting people, he toned it down. When Rory begged Logan not to steal from her grandparents for a secret society ritual, he did it anyway and kept his mouth shut as the maid risked her job until Lorelai forced his hand.

None of these boys are perfect. And in some things the other two did better than Jess (Jess did have a tendency to make things harder for himself with the townies, where Dean caused no trouble and participated enough to be accepted as a townie, for example) but overall Jess has the best track records so far. And it says a lot that he has that when he was still incredibly flawed and seasons away from his massive character glow-up.