#also i thought the tuunbaq would be

[babtest]

Watching The Terror and having the opposite emotions of the person who watched an intimate personal drama and kept waiting for the protagonists to also have to deal with godzilla.

Maybe this I my bias as a coldhater and a boathater, but I really thought the show was only about the inherent horrors of being literally stuck with these men in the Arctic.

I expected a slow drama about a bunch of relationships fraying and snapping, the pressures of society dissipating, close quarters breeding initmacy and hatred, y'know 'this movie could have been a play'stuff, slowly escalating to a frenzied finale.

I didn't expect godzilla to be there in episode two.

[dravenscroft]

So I make a loooot of shitposts and jokes (mainly because my actual career is writing dark and serious novels and therefore I come to Tumblr to get away from that) but I FINALLY wanted to write a post that sums up my thoughts regarding the Hickey/Tozer dynamic because it fascinates me so much.

I'm putting it under a read more because I know I'm going to ramble.

Okay so first of all, as much as I may like to make jokes about the sex being so good it drove a guy to mutiny, I don't actually believe there was any sexual intimacy between Hickey and Tozer at all. This is mostly because I think post Carnival NOBODY was getting laid, everyone was far too sick and weak and tired for that - do I think in different circumstances it could have happened between them? Possibly, yeah. I definitely see the dynamic as romantic, but in a weird, unspoken, 'whatever the hell they have going on is also way more complicated than that' way.

The main thoughts I have about how and why Tozer ends up locked into in the Worst Situationship Of All Time are mainly due to three factors:

Heather's death and the breakdown of command.

The obvious Oh Shit moment of watching the Tuunbaq devour Collins' soul.

Physical touch.

The first one is the primer, as it were. It sets Tozer up as angry, desperate, and willing to mutiny. It's already become clear by Carnival that command is breaking down, they don't know what to do, and what a soldier needs more than anything is a CLEAR, DECISIVE CHAIN OF COMMAND. Without that, Tozer - who already has some Opinions about the way the marines are being put at additional risk (unionise, king) - has no one to keep him on a leash, for want of a better word. He's a dog trained to kill that suddenly doesn't have a master. He cannot be in command himself. He needs someone above him; he's not a leader.

This builds and builds, but then Heather's death - the loss of any vestige of something that would keep him loyal, since evidently Heather's care would continue under ordinary command - at the hands, essentially, of the very command he's started to doubt...well, that's it. Gun primed.

The discovery of Fairholme's group shatters any remaining hope he may have had, Crozier's reluctance to tell the men only further compounding the 'command is failing' mentality Tozer already has in spades. And there you go - the trigger is pulled.

BANG. Mutiny.

The second major factor comes after he's thrown in his lot with Hickey in a way he can't go back on. He sees Collins' soul sucked from his body by Tuunbaq before his very eyes. Suddenly, everything he thought he knew has been tipped on its head and an existential crisis he definitely didn't expect or need is thrust upon him, but now any decision he might have made to stay with Crozier and co based on this revelation is no longer open to him. The gun is still smoking, there's no way of putting the musket ball back, and now Hickey is his only option.

But maybe that isn't so bad? Because Hickey is providing something command didn't. He seems in control. He seems to know what he's about, what he's doing, and what to do next. He gives clear concise orders. He's taken up the leash command dropped, and Tozer has a master again. He feels like a marine again, like some of his identity has returned to him in a weird, perverse way (and we know Tozer is incredibly proud of being a Royal Marine from his earlier conversations)(not to mention Crozier's remark to Fitzjames about not asking the men to leave bits of themselves behind straight away when leaving the ships; Tozer has already lost bits of himself, when Heather died, and he lost faith in command).

Tozer is NOT willing to do a second mutiny because that would put HIM in charge, stripping him of that identity all over again, and he cannot handle that.

And finally, physical touch - physical touch is one of the things that keeps him chained to Hickey (quite literally by the end). It's perhaps not nearly as much of a factor as the other two, or perhaps an enormous factor, but definitely there. Throughout the earlier episodes we see that Tozer is a pretty tactile guy. Playfully wrestling at the birthday party. Caring for Heather, squeezing his hand to try and get signs of life. This is a man who isn't afraid to touch other men. When Hickey holds his face in That scene, he doesn't appear surprised - a little spooked by the way he leans in suddenly, and Hickey's intensity, but not shocked. Not like it's the first time Hickey has ever touched him. I generally imagine there's a lot of physical intimacy Hickey offers him during the scenes we don't see, because Hickey IS good at recognising things in people most of the time, and I can see him honing in on that need for touch immediately.

I imagine him touching him a lot, sleeping unusually close to him, soothing him, everything to make Tozer feel safe and secure and remind him WHO is meeting those specific needs. He's providing certainty, command, and comfort, three things Tozer desperately needs.

If there WAS any sexual intimacy between the two, I believe it would build off this even further - confuse Tozer about his feelings, make him feel uniquely bonded to Hickey in a way he can't easily undo. Especially as a Royal Marine, essentially a symbol of the warlike 'noble' Empire, with all the corresponding Victorian hangups and ideals, which would no doubt feel incredibly threatened by any attraction to Hickey. Hickey, who, as we know, WANTS to erase this sense of Empire as identity, not because he understands the evils of Empire but because he wants to replace it with his own where he is at the top.

Hickey both offers Tozer his identity back while at the same time trying to reshape it to fit his own empire. And for Tozer that's confusing and conflicting - but it's better than what he had before. Because Tozer, too, cannot see the world through any lens but that of Empire and hierarchy and command - that's the fatal flaw of all these men.

By the end, it seems he's starting to see what a horrible mistake he made - but by then it's far, far too late.

And a dog NEEDS a master.

Tldr; I think Tozer's bond with Hickey stems from both very human needs such as touch and closeness and certainty, but also from a very thematic need to have a place and easily understood identity within the structure of Empire. And there's almost no real way for those two different sorts of needs to coexist without disaster.

(One day I'll go into how I think Hickey gets more from this relationship than a mere henchman, but this isn't the post for it! This is about Solomon)

[stoportotouch]

anyway. just remembered this. i had that earlier version of over the ocean where little and hodgson were able to go home from the arctic together without either of them ending up in Boat Jail for six months but it all went really badly. this is uh. following on from that idea, but it also has irving being magically restored to life Some How (idk how this happens) and then turning up on somebody's doorstep, going back to them, and. uh. things continue to happen.

had another idea for a fic, which i shall present to you here for posterity

[incesthemes]

I'm coming to bother you even though you're asleep because your sad long dead gay arctic explorers are haunting me so you have to deal with the consequences of your actions by me asking you to talk.

I'm curious to know your thoughts on Tuunbaq. How well you think he worked as a plot device in general in the amc, whether the book portrayed it in any different ways (I believe you said you read the book, might be wrong, ignore this if you had), anything interesting you've happened to read about it through your other research into the sad dead tent men, whether you really really fucking hated the cgi, etc.

I'll be back to haunt you with questions about Jopson but right now my brain is just record scratch sounds and sobbing so you're gonna have to wait for something coherent to come out of that mess lol

i am AWAKE now and i gotta say i wasn't expecting the jopson talk last night to lead into tuunbaq but that's okay. he's my perfect fluffy wuffy teddy bear who can do no wrong

i think others have said this kinda thing better than i ever could, but i really do like how tuunbaq is used in the show. he's like a manifestation of colonial hubris—the embodiment of fuck around and find out. they came to the arctic and destroyed the ecosystem, and their imperialist entitlement to conquer the land was inevitably their downfall. and i like that it's the "land" itself (in a metaphorical way, through tuunbaq) that shows them that entitlement is nothing but a false, vain hope. it doesn't matter what you think you're owed; the world doesn't exist for you to exploit and command, and it will not bend to your will.

because like, if gore and bryant had hesitated before shooting the shaman, tuunbaq likely would never have been a problem for them, right? he certainly wasn't in the 8 months since they'd gotten stuck in the pack. had they been peaceful and had they respected the land and its people, nature never would have clapped back. it was retaliation and defense. and the explorers' escalation of the issue—trying to hunt the bear, again out of entitlement to conquer and dominate—only caused further harm. they paid the ultimate price because they couldn't let go of their own entitlement and imperialism. they refused to listen to the netsilik, they pursued vengeance and sought dominion, and they died.

(i think about that inuit account a lot where it was said that the netsilik provided a group of starving men with an igloo and seals to eat, and they came back months later to discover the seals untouched and the men consumed. that they chose cannibalism over adaption to the local food sources is a horror in itself and an exemplar of the hubris these men carried with them—while the show depicts them as more sympathetic to the netsilik (really hard to get worse than this real account, no matter how hostile the show characters are), i think it does a good job of presenting the mindset of the real expedition)

i haven't read the book though, and based on the reviews i've seen of it i don't have much motivation to either. i may end up reading it in the future but i don't currently have plans for it. as for the tuunbaq himself, i don't think much(?) of him was actually cgi! he has a whole uhhhhh like. i don't know the word or i've forgotten what it is. but he's real:

i don't know much about his production though, and i actually thought he was cgi too until i saw this picture!!! the actual cgi from what i've seen of it (i haven't had much of a chance to look at the BTS stuff tbh...) is really well done. i didn't even realize they weren't like, submerging these poor actors in frozen water until i saw the greenscreen 😭

for tuunbaq's design, i don't know. i've become endeared to his weird human face, but i prefer the Long Neck version which is apparently the book description of him. i just think it's crazy and kooky, and the fanart i've seen of the book tuunbaq is just so awesome. sufficiently creepy for a "monster" but also extremely compelling.

anyway i love tuunbaq. he's the chilling manifestation of colonial hubris. he's blanky's wife. he's my good buddy and best friend. i'm his biggest fan forever 💖

[cashmere-caveman]

hello everyone :) inspired by this post by @burrowingregg, please enjoy my thoughts on "what if crozier fucking dies and little becomes captain"

if he dies before sir john

one of two outcomes. sir john either doubles down ("we have to find the nwp for francis!"/"well now that the haters are gone its time to have Real Men Solve This Like Champs") or he goes hm. maybe this is a sign and actually this is a dire situation. perhaps we should pack it in men

i dont rlly have any thoughts on this except i am rlly curious what this would do to fitzy. does he ramp up the charming pretender routine now that he's the uncontested no1 son and crozier cleary didnt know what he was talking about or would this be an early wakeup call and jumpstart the fury beach convo w blanky?

if he dies pre ep4 (tuunbaq)

the lashing would not turn out this way bc little wouldnt have hickey punished as a boy -> less men would berth on erebus

mutiny later maybe? definitely different

(is this a good moment to squeeze in some solittle bc they have to cooperate to keep all the men in check.)

definitely better communication within terror command bc the lieutenants will know little is going to hear them out i think and since little sucks at asserting authority hed have to rely on them more than crozier did

weird tension between jopson and little i think. is it sexual. is it antagonistic. actually maybe i could see jopson joining a mutiny in a crozier dead scenario hmmm…. heres how hickeyjopson can still win !!1!!!!!

if he doesnt survive the withdrawal

jopson.exe stopped working

maybe i could see jopson joining a mutiny in a crozier dead scenario hmmm…. heres how hickeyjopson can still win !!1!!!!! (1).docx

joplittle coworkers to enemies speedrun. i think jopson would grieve so fucking much but then go Ah! We compartmentalise this emotion! Nothing easier than that :) and then hed be so fucking passive agressive as the new captains steward without even realising bc WHY does little walk around alive and hale when little was the one who got crozier the alcohol that killed him how is that fair (jopson is Not at a point where he is willing to confront the fact that he himself was just as much an enabler as little, if not more so)

also sidenote but he wouldnt shave little since that actually never was in a stewards job description in the first place lol no homoerotic blade to throat interaction for you, sir!!

i do think little and fitzjames would work well together! they did a good job on coordinating the carnivale and fitzjames is not someone who lashes out a lot, which is good bc little does not deal well w getting screamed at

i think blanky would become elemental. w crozier dead and (assuming carnivale still happens) mcdonald gone hes the last brit who speaks inuktitut fluent enough to communicate w silna Plus hes one of the v few remaining high ranking arctic veterans

(what would change in a scenario like this if my good friend and upcoming romance novel love interest graham gore - who was an arctic veteran and even competent and charismatic - was still around? food for thought)

what would hickey do? the object of his obsession is out of the picture so he cant get revenge for getting whipped, he still wants to go to his tropical vacation and i think w crozier dead he would switch to survival mode 3000 (he is always already in survival mode to begin with, but i mean the point at which he switches from playing defense to offense) sooner. if the captains dead theyre fucked for real whats holding him back? hickey voice in fact what is holding anyone back? men, we need to confront the situation!

i really think this might be where thomas "shouldve been a news reporter" jopson would shine. that nosy bitch knows about Everything going on, and in a situation like this where every information must be handled in a v tactical way so as to Manage The Situation i think there would be a great deal of avenues of action open to someone in a position like his. especially, i think, bc to me a great deal, if not to say the entirety of jopsons optimism and endurance and focus is simply build on this vast foundation of trust he has in crozier and w crozier gone, what happens to all of that? there are a few ways this could play out imo

a) he instead reorients himself toward the next Authority Figure, which in this case would probably be Fitzjames. I do think it is unlikely, simply bc due to crozier dying during withdrawal the fences would not yet have mended entirely and jopson Will Hold A Grudge. it wont be little, for previously mentioned reasons, even though i dont think jopson would be able to realise that himself. he does not have a lot of interactions w the other lieutenants up until then (not counting serving dinner etc) and since iirc they had not been called into the Sobriety Meeting i dont quite know about how much he would trust them. so unless sth drastically changes during the walkout the options would be fitzjames or little and i personally vote no on both

b) he would retreat into himself and simply Wait. wait for what? u ask. well :) he would wait. and then, maybe one day he might even React. but for now, he would Wait, and Pay Attention

c) i realize this is quite a shrewder reading of jopson than what dave k has said of how he sees him but as i said earlier to me a lot of jopsons "goodness" hinges on crozier providing him w the trust he needs to unfold these qualities. and w that gone, i think that leaves him as someone v smart, in a position where he has access to a lot of information, and also in a state of absolutely crushed hopes and reopened trauma. and that certainly does put you in a state of mind doesnt it?? atp his trust in the remaining leadership might be v fragile and he would certainly wonder how any of this would go on. so hed either implode and fucking idk. wither. (which, for the record, i think he would Not do) Or! he would decide that alright. no one left to handle this but himself so time to take matters into his own hands! youve shot smaller hawks than this tommy its time to get out of here! which, again, is where i think a possible hickey alliance, maybe via billy, might take place. if jopson and hickey would team up for a mutiny they would definitely constantly be daydreaming of killing each other <3 not to be me but i would read the fuck out of a hickeyjopson mutiny vs a solittefitz alliance. give me intrigue! give me bastardry! give me some fucking losers dishing it out in the canadian arctic over the worlds worst buffet options!

this is not necessarily a full point on its own but more of an addendum: i genuinely think jopson has it in him to pull a dundy. aka i think he v much does strike me as someone who would stage a quiet not so much mutiny but a quiet usurpation of power through simple calculated ruthlessness. which! speaking of usurpation!

option d) jopson decides that hes the only competent bitch left and the only way to ensure everyones survival is to go full grima wormtongue and become the puppet master advisor to littles captain. little would actually let this happen and might even welcome it. we know this guy is genetically engineered to follow orders. dont say i never did anything for joplittle enjoyers!!!

crozier dies during the walkout at any point:

i dont really have anything big for this. it would be bad but depending on what has happened at that point (how scurvy ridden is fitzjames? is jopson a lieutenant yet? has hickey killed irving already?) it might not change too much tbh

if he gets shot during morfins suicide it would be disastrous i think but it might actually make the men come closer together again maybe? if little becomes captain then and there maybe the mutiny might get prevented or at least postponed bc little would let the marines get their armed patrol and thus they might not be as resentful/mistrusting toward command. ofc little As A Captain trusting tozer and getting fucking bamboozled by him if the mutiny still happened would be an even worse look lmfao. that is if morfin shot him. if it was however a Marine who shot crozier…… well. i think thered be an execution first thing at daybreak! and any and all weapons would be under lock and key w extra attention to the point that i think not even armitage would hand them out. plus lbr it wouldve been tozer in this scenario w the killing shot so! armitage without tozer…. does that poor lad even know how to exist when he is not in sols orbit. how would hickey exploit this….. (also extremely evil version is jopson shooting crozier which is so evil that we do not consider it. goodbye)

if crozier dies pre tuunbaq attack id be curious if the (attempted) hanging would still happen. i personally think it would, simply bc hickey would definitely try to start some shit and fitzjames would be wary enough to order a post mortem on irving plus jopson would definitely catch that rat. maybe he would actually hang, even, but that depends on whether little as his captain or fitzjames as the overall expedition commander would give the little speech beforehand. if it's fitzy, either him or hickey in his response would run out of time before the tuunbaq shows up and hickey would escape, but if it's little theres a real chance he would shortly state some dry facts let hickey speak for two sentences of last words maximum and then get it over with. and now That would be a fascinating scenario to explore. crozier gone, hickey gone, camp in ruins, dozens of men dead, fitzscurvy left in charge. would there be a second mutiny? des voeux, perhaps? or billy himself (he was also an architect of this!!! he went to burn the fucking maps!!! billy was not regular rat who marrydivorcemarried the evil rat he was evil rat no2!!! simply a less flashy (fleshy….. hah) flavour!!!) just quietly absconding w a bunch of men into the fog? what would tozer do, if he had survived and hickey hadn't?

last minute death scenarios

anything w crozier dead before hickey could capture him would not change much i think. maybe hickey would deflate some upon the news but hed still capture goodsir and still die as a wannabe new god. i think the real tragedy would be if little was left as the only captain after fitzjames' death. that man was Not made to carry such a burden and dundy would smell the blood in the water and ursurp him early i think, which ironically might lead to a scenario where there could be a sliver of hope for survival for the healthier parts of the crew

if crozier died during the capture bc hartnell didnt take the bullet hickey would fucking kill whoever fired that shot (i do not remember who it was. golding? was it golding? i fucking hate that guy i can easily belive it was golding) and i think hartnell and little and whoever else was there would either escalate the situation into a shootout to avoid the mutineers taking croziers body for food (lbr hickey would love to eat that old man) and die right then right there or maybe get themselves captured bc everything is just pointless now (unlikely outcome imo the tension would be too high) OR theyd somehow get the fuck out of there, organize a party of men to take the mutineers and have a final showdown (unless dundy intervened and ursurped ofc) which means: tuunbaq survives!!! yay :D good ending for silna :) she has not lost the tuunbaq so maybe even no exile <33

if crozier just died during the final tuunbaq fight: no changes at all

which concludes my thoughts! this turned out way longer than i expected and honestly did not focus on little v much but it was super interesting to consider all these scenarios so thank u burrowingregg for giving me the idea to begin with :) i would also be super curious to hear everyone elses thoughts on this so please do chime in!!

[synesindri]

so admittedly i did think it was a little bit random when they started calling the mutineers a coven but i've seen the light now so here are my thoughts on this kickstarted by this description of a common 19th century british witch archetype:

literary representations of witches would also be underpinned by popular tales recorded by folklore collectors in most parts of Britain, which portrayed such people as utterly wicked, possessed of all too effective magical powers, and ending up brutally punished by death or injury

— ronald hutton, "Witches and Cunning Folk in British Literature 1800–1940," p29

1. "utterly wicked." i mean. no justification needed for this one probably.

2. "possessed of all too effective magical powers." not directly, but hickey is weirdly unaffected by sickness and starvation and exposure and exhaustion compared to the others (a lot of his off-the-rails behaviors/mentalities later on do map on reasonably well to symptoms of lead poisoning and other things going on, but like, he isn't bleeding or losing teeth and i would sell my soul for my skin to look the way his does even during the very worst of everything, so). he also clearly has a lot of power over many of the men, in an understandable leadership way that is more reliant on charisma, bribery, planfulness, and situations than magic, but it does seem kind of magical at times

3. "ending up brutally punished by death or injury." hard to get more brutally punished than literal bodily bifurcation. the rest of the "coven" likewise meet brutal ends.

4. devil shenanigans. lots of focus during this time period in british lore on witches and devil worship. obviously the tuunbaq is not a or the devil and it is troubling to suggest as much (even in its role as a fabricated entity that does not actually belong to the culture it has been inserted into). nonetheless, it is presented fearsomely in a way that seems likely to be understood as demonic or hellish by a christian crew such as the men of terror and erebus (it might even be described as such canonically? i don't remember specific examples and i haven't checked). certainly everyone has a good christian "avoid that thing" reaction to the tuunbaq — everyone except hickey, who finds it appealing and sees an opportunity to seek power through it, much as folkloric and literary witches of the era were depicted as doing through the devil.

5. christian inversions and rejections. the mutiny arguably really kicks off with the murder of lt. irving, the most outspokenly christian person in the group. christ symbolism through the "punished as a boy" scene through framing and posture. as lt hodgson so kindly spells out for us, cannibalism and (catholic) communion both involve the consumption of human blood and flesh. at mutineer supper time i was briefly convinced they were about to say grace (totally subjective on that one but whatev). hickey going up the hill to listen to his thoughts was very prophet-like imagery. hickey's final speech rejects god and religion. probably there are more examples but i think that's enough for this post that is already longer than i planned for it to be.

6. sexuality part 1. witches of the time and place were associated with non-normative sexual practices (including homosexuality, promiscuity, femdom, sexual coersion, so on and so forth). hickey is directly depicted in a sexual and romantic relationship with another man (who is also the one who first suggested mutiny in the first place, solidifying the narrative importance of the connection between gay people and mutiny. be gay do crimes but for serious). idk what the stance in general fandom scholarship is about the hickey-tozer dynamic, but i would say that is plausibly depicted as at least being implied to be not 100% heterosexual, which is particularly notable because that has important potential effects on how the power structure of the mutineer camp works — a chaste rank-based collegiality has a very different vibe than a situation where the main guy in charge and his second in command might be fucking (or kissing, or holding each other's faces in a sort of tender pseudo-religious way, or whatever else they might have been getting up to together) — this is getting a bit off from witchcraft but certainly there are many comparable depictions of witches coercing powerful men to do their bidding by using sexuality (see my non-existent au i just thought of just now that's based on lewis's the monk, i guess???)

7. sexuality part 2. witches also were notorious for doing castration to people. sorry, irving.

8. sexuality part 3. perhaps most notably witches were regarded as having sexual relationships with the devil. none of the mutineers ever gets it on with the tuunbaq obviously (although i feel confident that some adventurous fic writers out there have probably made this a subject of their study), but it is KIND of attempted symbolically. i talked about this already but it bears repeating here that the tongue is an erogenous body part generally, and there is possibly some mild extra narrative emphasis on that symbolism for hickey specifically, so the metaphorical self-castration of him cutting out his own tongue and offering it to the tuunbaq is a little bit giving weird sex. it's also giving nun/priest/monk-like disavowal of the potential for (at least a few types of) sex with human beings in favor of pledging oneself to a deity.

9. human sacrifice. common trope with witches, and the clear point of hickey's dragging everybody up that hill with him when he goes also to attempt to sacrifice part of his own human self to the tuunbaq.

10. identity. this is a little less solid but there's often kind of a sense that witches aren't who they claim to be? see lewis's the monk again, with (spoilers, i guess) the character of monk rosario revealing himself actually to be matilda, a seductive witch, who eventually does a double reveal that she's a demon. the "i'm not really cornelius hickey" reveal is giving that, a bit.

[brucequeensteen]

thought quastion you have likely already pondered but wish to ask: would your little band guys survive the terror? also, would your little terror guys survive the mid 20th century music industry?

this is such a good question i actually haven't considered it before which is crazy but. its a delightfully bizarre combination let's get into it. considering the monkees are mostly based in california i think they would be severely unequipped to go to the arctic, but once you get past that barrier... the order of deaths would be micky (frighteningly skinny, delicate constitution, far too good-natured and optimistic to live very long in a horror survival situation) , then mike (also even more frighteningly skinny but more scrappy and had a less plump and sheltered childhood than micky so would pull through a little longer, but he is for sure succumbing to either scurvy or the extreme conditions), then davy (he's a trooper he's working class he's fearless he's british so more fitting to canon. he probably wouldn't back down from cannibalism if it means he might survive. unfortunately he will die from lead poisoning 3 years into the expedition because he is small and his body won't recover). leaving peter to die last may seem like favouritism but he is probably the most final girl coded of them all and the least likely to get lead poisoning, eat poisoned human remains, antagonise tuunbaq and get ripped to shreds, or abandon his crewmates to go die alone from exposure. i just see him carrying on through til the end. but also eventually dying. SAD

as for the terror guys in the 20th century music industry HELP HELP LOL!!!!!!!!!1 most of them would NOT make it in the first place (edward little and george hodgson im looking at you), a lot of them will be succumbing to pressure and promptly dying from drug abuse or going into hiding or going bankrupt (first that comes to mind is billy gibson rip king) . some would rage quit early on george harrison style but without making a solo career comeback (tozer and crozier amen) . there are 3 characters that would absolutely thrive: hickey because he's an attention whore and a straight up regular whore, fitzjames because he's a diva and a magical girl and the jimin/paul mccartney of the terror, and lieutenant john irving who would have a semi-successful career as a 70s christian folk singer without too much exposure but with a very devoted fanbase . i can't consider the implications of putting them in The Box the monkees head 1968 style because that's just too crazy. but i do want to trap them in a time loop so thank you danny for making me think about that

[saints-who-never-existed]

sundogs!

Sundogs - Talk about a moment in the show that interests you most

I've been thinking a lot today about a particular line reading in the final episode, right before the Tuunbaq showdown:

"I can't go back."

It's the way Hickey just sort of blurts it out that I find absolutely fascinating!

Not five seconds earlier he appears to be in full ranting, raving, condescending cartoon villain mode - "You think you're going back...?" but then, even if only for an instant, his whole demeanour changes!

He falters!

There's glint of humanity there, a chink in the armour, fear and shock and trepidation as if the weight of all that's happened and is about to happen suddenly hits him! And it's delicious!

"...I-I can't go back..."

And there's no direction for it in the script either - only a more explicit indication that Hickey is starting to feel the effects of Goodsir's poison than we see in the show. So it seems that may have been a full and very interesting AdNags Acting Choice TM though I wouldn't like to declare that for sure?

I would like to speculate wildly though on the reasoning behind that choice. Is it just the shock of realising that he's come too far and there really is no going back or could it also be fear and dread at the memory of whatever it was he was running from in the first place?

I'd love to know other's thoughts on that actually! <3

[laststandx3]

I think there’s a case for “heather could have stopped tozer from joining the mutiny,” a big part of why he joined seems to be that hickey could use his grief over heather to convince him that crozier wasn’t looking out for the marines

Exactly!!! very real case!! this why i'm here screaming about it in polls.

Because Heather was THAT important for Tozer than after he died (in an horrific way) Tozer wasn't the same man anymore.

And of course Hickey took advantage of that grief, but what if we have the same story and the only thing we change is that Heather survives? There's still a monster hunting them, there's still the arctic cold around them, there's still people that burned alive at carnivale.

If Heather is there with Tozer after Carnivale there are still point that one can make against Crozier's leadership. There is still a base for a mutiny. To try and save your skin because so far the captain hasn't capitaned much.

Personally I think both Tozer and Heather would have joined the mutiny. And this comes from the fact that they're really close and that we actually see Tozer advocating (in a way) for the marines before Hickey got any chance to even think of a mutiny.

and let's assume it wasn't Heather the last victim of the Tuunbaq. It was another man. There are already dead marines who don't really belong in the expedition.

Tozer is making the Heather is strong speech, yes but he's also pointing out how none of them choose to be there. It's a vent out of fear for his life, for his close friends life. but it's based on a belief he already had. They had no choice, that they had no extra pay, that they were the first line, first to cut down (an acceptable sacrifice because their job as put them there)

If Tozer had these beliefs before the mutiny there's no reason that someone very close to him wouldn't share them.

And Hickey overhears it and that is why he can get Tozer in the mutiny, because they have the some common knowledge that command isn't looking out for you.

Now an extra because I'm obsessed with scenes nobody talks about:

When Sir John visits the marines waiting for the Tuunbaq. You can say whatever you want about sir John but the one thing he was good at was approaching the men. He's always kind, constructive and positive. He's was a man of politics after all. So when he visits the marines he brings them booze, makes jokes and compliments them on their cleverness of using the rats as bait. They take a picture for posterity and like a good politician now that he showed up and did nothing he can go back to the safety and warmth of his ship. Franklin doesn't want to freeze his ass any longer. Already about to shake hands. Then Tozer stops him : Then sit with us Captain, why don't you? Perhaps it can be you who fires the shot that will convince it [Tuunbaq]

Heather: At least be here to see it felled

script dialogue. that tells us that Franklin gets touched by the offer, it leaves us no indication on how to understand Tozer's offer. So when he invites Franklin to stay, my interpretation is that he does it out of being a little annoyed at his boss. Have you seen how Franklin moves around? He has the pose of a man who's never lift a finger in his life, can you imagine him firing a weapon? can you imagine him firing the striking shot? You can't tell me that Tozer invitation is genuine praise for his captain. And then Heather who sees that Tozer aimed to high with Franklin's vanity reframes it a little. (have you ever told a lie with your bestie and they sort of adjust your version of the story?) This is why I think that Tozer and Heather share at least the core idea that pranking your boss it's a good thing to do there's a gap from the marines and anyone else there. They are technically the ONLY ones who give Franklin's authority a lesser weight. You can't imagine this little prank made by anyone else. To everyone else the captain is THE authority and they would never ever imagine that authority wouldn't see thought you. But Tozer and Heather do. they don't owe Franklin/command anything because they're not there looking for glory, the country, or an hawaian vacation. They're there because they got assigned to the job. And they do feel the gap between them and everyone else, and when there's an us and them than it's enough seed to start a mutiny.

[georges-chambers]

Arctic, Sundogs, Franklin

Thank you for asking these, very glad that you did because they're very fun <333

Arctic: "How would you cope on a Victorian ship?"

Depends on at least 1 factor with whether I'm essentially me as I literally am right now or me if just a few things were changed but otherwise the same. Like if I were me right now? Not very well. If the 'Victorian' part implies they don't have any good anti-convulsants yet, I'm. Pretty much as good as slowly painfully dead. But if I simply did not have those physical issues? Again, not well immediately, I don't have any real training or anything, but I do feel like I could adjust well enough to be a passable ships boy at the very least within. Probably a week or so, at best. Depending on when and where we may be. It's very much the sort of thing I feel like if it didn't kill me, would change me so much it'd end up fixing me.

Sundogs: "Talk about a moment in the show that interests you the most."

God. They're are so many this is so hard to pick. A well-known interesting scene like the comforting of Goodsir by Silna as she just held him? And the way that both many audiences and possibly Goodsir at another time immediately are inclined to think of potential romantic implications but at the same time, this is a great way of showing how that itself could be considered a western standard applied to the western views of those 2. And after all that's changed and happened, all Goodsir does is not resist it, but just. Ease into it and accept the comfort for what it is, which is unconditional simple human warmth? But of course in my recent rewatch there was also so much if not everything going on between Tozer and the other marines. And Tozer and Heather, of course. It's practically infinite, honestly. But one i noticed, though it was a very small moment in the whole show, actually just something of a line that may as well have meant literally nothing, was when Golding was talking about seeing the Tuunbaq somewhere to mislead Little and the others with him, he did say, "Chambers and I would have shot it if we had our wits about us." I don't know why, but somehow my at least 3 or 4 other watches of the whole show, I always thought he said "James and I" but no, and to me this does actually mean something. Because we also do see Chambers another time before this, at Hickey's attempted execution in which we can assume Golding, who was almost definitely already recruited by then before since Hickey trusted him so unquestionably (which means a lot coming from Hickey) and thought him capable enough to handle a spy and misleading mission later on, was watching. And it's hard to judge how he seems but it does seem almost 'justified'. You can see why mutinying for stuff like extra rations would tempt someone that low in rank. And I can easily see Golding having brought something like it up to him, maybe even only subtly, once or so at least. But the scene when Golding then says if he and Chambers had their wits about them when they saw the Tuunbaq they'd have taken a shot at it becomes a lot more interesting to me then thinking about it with that potential because then we have to also realize that this Does mean Golding really doesn't think 1. Chambers would ever mutiny by this point, and 2. No one would bother asking Chambers about that. But I also do have to wonder if it's possible he tried to see if Chambers would have mutinied with him or even helped him lead them into a trap earlier that day, because I can certainly see it even more when worse just happened and the mutiny lost a considerable amount. This is literally a single line which very well probably means nothing bit I'm thinking so much about it

Franklin: "Who's an underrated character your opinion?"

I could say all the ships boys but that's a bit of an exaggeration because I do have to admit a lot of their characterization isn't really in the show much at all, nor is their story relevance that great, so I get the lack of interest. Golding is another matter, but I also completely get kind of hating him. But of course I do wish more found the way he seems to actually have both Hickey's trust in not betraying him, but also some belief on Hickey's behalf in his capabilities intellectually, something Hickey just. Very rarely seems to afford practically anyone either of, but Especially both. But the simple fact that a lot of people don't actually even know much of Anything about Dundy when to me he's almost like a main character because of how much more I notice him after the first 2 watches is truly absurd. What do you mean most people didn't realize how devastating James death was to him? What do you mean few others see how important it was for him to help crew morale when announcing the Carnivale despite how his toes just got cut off? What do you mean they don't even really see whatever is going on between him and Little? He means so much to me.

[pomodoriyum]

go for broke, tuunbaaq, sundogs!

go for broke - what role do you think you’d be good in on a polar expedition?

going to be completely honest i think i'd rather blow up into 1 million pieces than ever go somewhere that cold (also im so fucking scared of bears). which is a shame because the poles are some of the most beautiful places on earth and are so fucking cool. i love deserts so much. i guess this aversion means id be more involved with preparing the expedition itself. maybe im the one who buys the goldners tins and inadvertently poisons them all.

tuunbaq - were you frightened by the show? which scene do you find the “scariest”?

hmmmm i would say the billy orren corpse reveal got my heart rate up a bit, and david young's death, but other than that, no. In terms of what I find most horrifying on a personal level, though, I gotta say the punished as a boy rape-by-proxy scene is disturbing to me (hickeys foot curling inwards...the salting....woof) and also des voeux's death in particular are just. ugh. imagine someone disliking you so much they leave you to a slow, horrible death from dehydration + exposure. yikes <- to be clear silna was 100% right about doing that. but ohhhhh my god that particular death hits the horror button for me so so bad

jopsons death wasnt great either tbh :(

fitzjames's death was awesome though. i loved that scene so much.

sundogs - talk about a moment in the show that interests you most

oughhhh, this one is so harddd. there are a *lot* of really poignant ones. and all of them are fairly subjective. and i think i dont want clarification on any of them.....

that being said. i really loved the birthday scene for Mr. Strong i thought it was great and also the tiny bit where they're playing football. i just love the glimpses of their daily lives. oh my god and dont get me started on all of the furniture and rooms and hammocks and diggle's stove..... i think about the items on billy gibson's table frequently.

the scene that absolutely fucking haunts me, though?

that's got to be the bit where tuunbaq brings silna a dead seal to eat.

[bunnygibson]

Ok bunnygibson since u are the gibson authority: what draws u to the character of gibson? What r his most compelling traits in ur eyes? What do u think he’d have gotten up to if he survived? Do u think he genuinely loved hickey (and what kind of love was it)? Do u think he and jopson were friends?

YAYYY opportunity to talk about my girl :D this is gonna be Long so im putting it under a readmore

okay so first off i love a character who is DOOMED especially when it's Love that dooms them. there is nothing more compelling a character can do than follow their heart to ruination against their better judgment. like, on one hand he's this very practical guy, trying to stay out of trouble and even being a conniving bastard sometimes!! but really he's a Romantic and listens to his heart rather than his head when it comes to the person he loves... he so clearly Knows Better like he Knows that getting with hickey is a terrible idea but he's in love !!! and despite all the red flags he stays with him, he follows him straight to his own death... he's such a fantastically written character like, his arc is so deeply satisfying to me it could not possibly be better.

if he survived!!! in a situation where they got back to england, i think he would tell hickey he never wanted to see him again, but if hickey showed up at his doorstep he would let him in every time. shoutout to this super super good fanart where hickey billy and tozer survive and kill the tuunbaq and hang out in the arctic.... in only my self-indulgent imagination i like to picture him and hickey and tozer in the most annoying toxic throuple of all time <3 it starts out as hickey and his two boyfriends but then his two boyfriends make out #gibsontozer <3 i think if they survived and made it to hawaii, and hickey asked billy to run away with him instead of returning to england... man, i really don't know. it depends on what his life in england was like, whether he'd be willing to abandon it, and we really don't even have any clues. i'm sure he would be extremely tempted... staying in paradise with hickey instead of going home to cold rainy england and what, marrying a woman? going back to sea and being a steward? but i don't know if he could bring himself to do it... outside of a survival situation i just don't know if he would allow himself to do something so self-indulgent.

YES i believe with my whole heart that he was genuinely in love with hickey (and hickey was in love with him too). maybe he didn't even admit it to himself, but he loved him, even after learning he's a murderer he loved him so so bad... he probably hated the fact that he was in love because it's Inconvenient as hell LOL after every time he slept with him he was like "okay that was the LAST time" but then he would go back to his little bunk and write his name surrounded by little hearts in his diary. bro is down sooo bad down atrocious

i think he and jopson were probably more co-workers than friends, but they had a mutual respect for each other because they both enjoy being snarky and bitchy from time to time... like jopson would say something passive aggressive or underhanded and billy would give it right back and they would look at each other like Alright, I See You. but i don't think they really hung out outside of steward duties... i always headcanon billy as being best friends with armitage even though i don't think they ever interact in canon lol

THANK YOU ANON for letting me rant (and also for giving me the title of Gibson Authority hehe) i Love shit like this 🫶 i could write a ten page essay on billy.... i could write a Book i could give a speech. i have so many thoughts and opinions

[chaotic-goodsir]

Ooh Hickey for the ask meme 👀

Thank you! As requested here are my thoughts on the rat man :)

Favourite thing about them:

The way his actions disrupt everything the expedition stands for - the whole idea of 'civilisation' and 'bringing order' through colonialism. If the Tuunbaq represents the unfamiliar outside world that the colonizers don't understand then Hickey represents the threats from within that they know all too well but don't want to admit to - the fact they're far from as 'civilised' as the propaganda they're used to suggests.

Least favourite thing about them:

Everything he put Goodsir through :(

Favourite line:

'Bugger Victoria, we’re here!

Bugger, Nelson, bugger Jesus

Bugger Joseph and Mary

Bugger the archbishop of Canterbury

None ever wanted nothing from me!'

broTP:

Hickey and Tozer, the brains and brawn of the mutineers. 

OTP:

Hickey/Gibson, but I think Hickeysir is also intriguing. They're such perfect foils to each other that if it weren't for GoodSilna (which I love) I think more people would probably ship them. Also Hickey/Irving has potential. 

NoTP: 

I'm not sure if Hickey and Crozier is even a pairing but no thank you.

Random headcanon:

Hickey definitely has a thing for the fact Goodsir sees right through him. I feel like this is almost canon based on the 'does that really work with anyone, Mr Hickey' scene.

Unpopular opinion:

I'm sorry Hickey fans but this man does not deserve that trip to O'ahu.

Song that reminds you of them:

Get Famous by the Mountain Goats

Favourite picture of them: 

I don't have a screenshot but the carnivale outfit. He really said tonight I'm gonna dress like the Penny Dreadful villain I am.

[charlesdesvoeux]

top five tertiary characters from amc's the terror

WARNING: we're about to enter my mind palace aka The Terror That Exists In My Head bc some of these guys get like. 3 lines tops so a lot of my thoughts on them are informed by fics and whatnot but here it goes

1. Charles Des Voeux: my namesake, my sewer gremlin, my beloved. he doesn't get a whole lot of screen time but when he does it is DAMNING. he's bitchy, he's racist, he's weird he's a weirdo he doesn't fit in have you ever seen him without his stupid hat on. the dezza that exists in my head is indeed a very weird guy whose mind astounds me; he thinks he's doing a very good job at coming off as Normal but he is NOT everybody knows he's weird and they're either kind of scared or think he's pathetic. extremely classist (son of a baronet, after all) but also he was shipped off to the navy bc his own family found him a little unsettling so he resents them too. of course he also has a psychosexual fixation on Dr. Stanley and the stuff he is into sex-wise more generally would probably freak an average 21st century person out so you can imagine how his 19th century peers saw him.

2. Tommy Armitage: my darling tortured boy. i am SO fascinated by hickey's assessment of him just before carnivale (while he is delusional in many aspects he is great at reading people imo); why is he so fixated on the marines, why does he "long for it" in hickey's words? does he feel degraded by his work as a steward, essentially a servant? does he feel like he's a coward and wearing that red coat would give him courage, would mean that he's amounted to something in his life? he also feeds Heather at carnivale and I think that speaks volumes to the extent that tozer probably trusted him. his devotion to Sol- AND IT IS THERE IN CANON IMO, YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR IT A LITTLE BIT BUT IT IS THERE- is also so interesting to me. He followed that man into mutiny, into ruin, saw him become a shadow of himself but continued to love him.

3. Henry Le Vesconte: yeah, I'm gonna call him tertiary. he doesn't have a lot of lines or screentime; I think he tends to be more prominent in fics due to his station as lieutenant (and bc from episode 3 onwards he was the only surviving lieutenant of erebus) and also because HE IS A CHARACTER WITH POTENTIAL. dandy-ish and charming, with just a touch of the rake. to see him broken and desperate and ultimately mutinous, abandoning crozier to the mutineers and the ill to their fate in a desperate attempt to prolong their survival when he started off sooooo different is very intriguing to me. also post-abandoning-captain-quiet-mutiny-starvation-march nedconte makes me feral.

4. William Pilkington: he went down but he went down swinging (he's the one who dies with a wilhelm scream). did you know he interacts with Armitage at least 3 times in the show??? considering how little time they get this is HUGE trust me #tommypilks is real. I see him as a guy who was probably pretty convivial and fun to be around before... everything that went down, maybe even a little cocky but in an endearing kind of way. to see the desperation in his face as him and Tommy try to talk tozer into going back to the ships and as they face tuunbaq for the final time and thinking about what he used to be.... Jesus Christ. There's also this image:

which I think about every day. "he has that sadness in his eyes" etc. and his expression as crozier is brought to mutineer camp. also interesting!!!!

5. Edmund Hoar: considering that he has like. 2 lines I think about him a lot. The fact that he rose to the post of captain's steward in his early 20s is really impressive imo but what really made me go "hey WHO is this guy" was the carnivale soup moment:

that's him on the left, Samuel Crispe from Terror on the right. like wait a minute what is going on here. a steward kind of has to maintain a level of "propriety" and "respectability" bc they work closely with command but fuck it- its carnivale, our id is showing, and hoar's id told him to get into the soup with this other guy nearly naked. two bros chilling in a big pot less than 5 feet apart cuz they are gay. also in my mind he's like the bratty teenage daughter to bridgens' impossibly patient dad and that dynamic is very dear to me.

bonus: my "canon OCs" (people that existed historically but were not mentioned in the show) William Elphinstone Malcolm (jirv's best friend who in my show!version is in love with him and jirv is also in love with him but won't admit it) and Eleanor Franklin (Franklin's daughter by his first wife who in my show!version is essentially "what if cornelius hickey was a Poor Little Rich Girl lesbian")

[ohelpthekraken]

Title: You May as Well Fire at the Moon

Summary: Post “First Shot’s A Winner.” The fact that the skitterbots hadn’t worked on the creature concerned Lt. Little.

Warnings: Blanky's amputation is non-graphically described, and Edward has suicidal thoughts (but does not act on them) towards the end.

500 words.

Lieutenant Little watched the ship’s boy walking around the deck picking up the deactivated skitterbots. The BN-NX-82 rifles [1] the Marines had used fired a swarm of nanobots that, upon contact with a living target, would skitter around devouring it and use the biomass to self-replicate. They were also dangerous to anyone who touched the poor sod being eaten, hence the use of inorganic medics [2] in situations where skitterbots may be present. Depending on their programming, they would devour each other or deactivate from lack of fuel when the target was gone. He had watched several shots hit the creature’s haunches and seen the skitterbots deploy, and the start of the swarm. But the altered magnetic field that surrounded the beast [3] had disabled them before it could be meaningfully injured. The ship, on the other hand, had been injured.

The creature—the Tuunbaq, he reminded himself—had ripped open part of Terror’s hull like tissue paper causing the compartment to depressurize. Mr. Honey had only just struggled into his enviro suit and begun patching up the hole, sparks flying, and Hickey was redoing the sealing on the hatch he had broken earlier. In Little’s memory the sound of rending metal merged with Blanky’s pained screaming. Over the comms. when the leg of his suit had been breached and Blanky’s leg was sacrificed to the stars, and again in Medbay when MacDonald had cut the remains off. Little imagined what the doctors were currently doing: snipping, pruning, sealing, doing whatever reconstruction they could now that the replication technologies onboard were starting to fail.  And now, Crozier’s pistol was burning a hole in his coat pocket.

Back in the solitude of Edward’s cramped cabin he pulled the pistol out and turned it over in his hands. Examined its construction. Toyed with the safety. Pointed it at the small shaving mirror, making eye contact with the darkness of the bore. Crozier’s pistol wasn’t an NX model, meaning it didn’t fire skitterbots and therefore would not grant him the complete disintegration he wanted and secretly thought he deserved.

Edward thought about the Navy firing two ships of men out into unknown reaches of space and wondered if they were no better than the skitterbots—programmable, mass produced, devouring everything in their path before dropping dead. Edward hoped this sad little expedition would drop dead before they started eating each other.

Well Captain, Little bitterly thought, putting the pistol into a drawer. All our clocks are running out. But I have a duty to the men, so I will prolong my time as much as possible.

Author's Notes:

Thank you for reading a scientific writer's first attempt at creative writing in about a decade! While this was fun to write I struggled a bit, so I may or may not just post a list of ideas of how things work or events might happen in this little AU. Regardless, please feel free to talk to me about it!

The title is a quote from British Army Col. George Hanger about the accuracy of the ‘Brown Bess’ sea rifle (1814).

[1] British Navy NanoExtruder mk. 82. [4]

[2]  Stanley and Goodsir are the inorganic medics on this expedition.

[3] In this AU I picture the Tuunbaq to be the simulacrum of a neutron star’s soul. Not exactly sentient, but able to be directed to an extent. It can manifest in a typically physical sense, but the men perceive it to be surrounded by radiation and strong magnetic and gravitational fields that royally fuck up their equipment. Signal interference.

[4] Lead is the 82nd element ;)

[the-meri-rose]

Okay I caved and I'm on my first rewatch of The Terror through episode two, and I have assorted thoughts:

Fitzjames is growing on me. Now that I've been through the "end of vanity" scene I'm picking up on little ways he tries to be seen by Franklin. 😥

Cannot believe Franklin made his exit from Terror in episode two by essentially saying "and BTW your shitter's cold." C'mon, man.

I stand by how I voted in that poll - episode two might be my favorite! There's some sense of exploration left in them, some wonder, yes even among the crewmen who smirk at Goodsir's more childlike awe. And then bam! Tuunbaq. Best of both worlds, really.

As much as I love the young Peglar/middle-aged Bridgens dynamic of the show, I was extremely charmed by middle-aged book Peglar and would have liked to see more of the confident captain of the foretop in the show.

I was also overconfident in my ability to identify cold boys. I went "who tf is that" to between 1 and 4 possibly different guys, then, finally... "wait is that Pilkington?!"

More to follow? I will commit to nothing!