#also i hope to Never fucking draw or paint dogs again. Horrible

[princema-k]

so draw your blade, you wretched fiend and let's you and i fight like the dishonourable dogs we are savage, violent, yet free and when the curtain calls, let me put you out of my misery

[saelwen]

Your Witcher

Dark!Geralt of Rivia x Shy!Reader

Chapter Three

Masterlist

Summary: You were a shy girl that worked on the tavern of your town, serving drunken men that came to drown all their problems in alcohol. On one of your busy days on the tavern, you grabbed the attention of a certain witcher. In which resolve you being taken away by the white-haired witcher. (Sorry I´m bad at summaries 😂)

Warnings: just a little of Smut on the end

Words: 2k

A/n: I wanted to thank everyone for the lovely comments and i really happy that you guys are enjoying my story! Well...Who doesn´t love a dom Geralt 😂😂 Also, English isn´t my first language so sorry if is there any errors.

Days have passed and you were still chained up on the room. Geralt spends his days with you, feeding you, spoiling you with rich presents such as good quality dresses, beautiful jewelry, and exotic foods, and also fucking the life out of you.  

You notice that if more submissive you stay for him, more gentle he is with you. Staying all night cuddling with you and massaging your sore body. He still uses that god damn aphrodisiac since you still refuse to let his warm touch affect you.  

Opening slowly your eyes, the first thing you saw was the naked figure of Geralt beside you. His handsome face was contoured with a heavy frown, his silver brow twitching gently and his eyelids trembling. His hold on me starts to tighten it up, making you hiss in pain.  

Putting your small hands on his shoulders, you try to push him away but he was much stronger than you. Taking a deep breath, you sat up and look down at him, seeing his muscled body shaking furiously. “G..Geralt...wake up!” You said quietly, shaking his tense body a little as you were afraid of being slapped or something. His movements stopped as his golden eyes shot open, sitting up and looking around to if there was some threat in the small room. His breath comes out in tiny puffs like he had run a marathon.  

Geralt rubs his hand on his face when he notices that wasn´t any threat in the room, a groan escape from his lips. “Fuck,” he mumbles under his breath while standing up and grabbing his clothes from the floor, putting them on. Your e/c eyes lingering on his muscled body, seeing every scar on his pale skin.  

When he was all dress up, he walks to the door but stops and look to you over his strong shoulder. “I will be out for some hours. I need to get some more food and wood from the town.”  with his words, you shot up from the bed. “Can I go with you?... Please?” your eyes were shining with hope and excitement, the only thing in your mind was the desire of feeling again the warm sun in your skin and see the beautiful blue sky...and also see people.  

Geralt looks to you with an amusing face and shook his head. “No, my sweet princess. I think that you weren’t prepared to see those horrible people again...maybe after some months, you will be ready.” His voice was firm, making you look down in defeat. That was your chance to escape from him or ask for help since the people in the town know you since your a little child.  

Nodding slowly, you bit your lower lip as tears start running down your delicate face. Geralt sigh and walk to you, sitting on the bed. His large hand cup gently your soaked cheek and lift it so your e/c eyes were looking to his golden ones. “Don’t cry now, my sweet princess! It won’t take long...I promise to run back to you as I get everything that I need!” He said with a gentle and sweet voice, making your guts twist in disgust. Little did he know that you wanted him dead, so you could be free from his hold, free to do what you wish, free to run in the forest like you used to do every single day, free to eat what you wanted.  

He leans down and captures your lips on his, kissing gently. “Don’t worry I will be quick.” He said while standing up from the bed and walking out of the room. You hear him grabbing some bags and walking outside the house, putting the leather bags on his horse.  

A defeated sigh escapes from your lips as you hear the hooves of his horse in the distance, the excitement in you disappearing slowly. What he wants from you? He could have any beautiful young women in the world so why he desires you so much? You’re just a simple woman that live in a small poor hut. And don’t let's get started with how shy you are, not having any self-confidence.  

Pulling the soft blanket, you cuddle into the gigantic pillow and grab the book that Geralt has given you yesterday. Opening the book, you start reading the elegant words painted on the old paper.

                                                      /// \\\

As Geralt arrives at the small town, the first thing he notices was the posters hanging around the taverns and shops. Draw there was the beautiful face of Y/n. “Fuck!” He groans under his breath a while dismounting from roach’s back. He should have known that this could happen but he thought that the people would think that Y/n had been eaten by some monster or something, and would forget about her.  

Pulling his dark cloak over his white hair, he starts walking around the lively market. Hearing the old women gossiping about some event that had occurred in the other week and seeing the children playing with the town dog, throwing a small ball for him to catch.  

He stops by the vegetable bank and orders some carrots and potatoes. After that, he walks to the meat bank and asks the butcher to arrange a deer so that he could bring it to the hut.

In the corner of his eye, he notices a small figure following his every move. Taking his order, Geralt walks back to Roach. He puts the thing he brought on the leather bags and pet gently roach. “There’s something that I could help you with it?” He asked while looking over his shoulder, seeing a woman with lovely red hair and tired blue eyes. She walks slowly to him with a crumpled poster on her frail hands. “Excuse me, Witcher! I like to hire you!” Geralt roll his golden eyes and let out a tired sigh. All he wanted to do was run back to the small hut and wrapped his large arms around his sweet princess. “What is it?” He asked firmly, turning back to the red-haired woman.  

She lets a tear escape from her eye and gave him the poster with Y/n face. “ Y/n have disappeared some weeks ago... Some people said that maybe a Ghoul has eaten her but I know Y/n would never let that happen since she knows the forest like the palm of her hand!... Please, sir! I will pay you well but please find her... she’s like a daughter to me.” The woman wept, cleaning her tears with a dirty cloth.  

Geralt looks down at the poster with a serious face. This was his opportunity to make the people of the town think that Y/n was dead, pretending that he found Y/n’s body on Ghoul nest or something.  

Looking at the woman, he nods and puts the poster on his pocket. “I will look for her but I can’t ensure that she is alive.” He said to the woman. She nods gently and thank him, walking inside the tavern.  

Geralt let out an annoyed sigh and look to the sky, seeing dark clouds start covering the bright sun. “A storm is coming.” He whispers to roach. Checking all the bags, seeing that he has everything. Geralt climb to roach’s back and begin his journey back to the hut, back to his little princess.

                                                      /// \\\

You lift your head from the book as you heard the strong wind and rain falling outside. You put the book down and stand from the bed. You look to the fireplace, seeing the fire die out. A shiver runs down your spine as a gush of wind pass by you.

Looking to the side, you see a basket full of wood. Taking a step forward, you hiss as the chain around your bruised ankle stops you from walking forward. A curse fell from your lips as you try to get to the basket.  

Lying down on the cold floor, you stretch your arm, the tip of your fingers brushing lightly against the basket. “Almost there, princess.” Geralt’s voice sounded in the room, making jump a little. Looking back, you saw him against the wooden door with soaked clothes, dripping water to the floor. “You’re back.” You whisper quietly. He nods and walks to the basket of wood, putting some logs in the fireplace. Then he took his wet clothes and hang them beside the fire. You crawl back to the bed quickly and hide in the corner.  

“There will be a large storm coming... I’m glad that I went today to the town or else we would be stuck here without food.” He said while sitting on the bed, pulling out his ponytail so his hair could dry properly.  

You nod gently and start playing with the chains around your ankle, running your finger along with the cold metal.  

There’s a long silence in the room, the only thing you could hear the fire cracking and your breath. Another gush of wind passes through you, making your body shiver in cold. This grabbed Geralt's attention, he moves closer to you and grabs your leg, pulling you to him.  

A squeal escapes from your lips as you’re dragged to him. “It seems that my princess is cold...Let me help you warm up.” He said with a sultry voice, a huge smirk on his face. His warm hands start petting your legs, rubbing gently his rough palms against your skin. He pushes your simple red dress up, baring your womanhood to him.  

You move your hands to your slit, trying to cover it but your movements stopped as you hear the loud growl that came out from Geralt’s mouth. Looking up, you saw him staring at you with a dark look on his face. Closing your eyes, you let out a defeated sigh, knowing that was better obey him or else you would feel his wrath.  

The Witcher leans down, kissing softly your thighs, sucking gently on the skin there. A whimper fell from your lips as you feel him kissing his way to your core. “You are so wet already, princess.” His voice was full of lust.

Your breath was cut on your throat as you feel his plump lips around your sensitive nub, making you throw your head back with a loud moan.  

He knows your body like the palm of his hand, knowing every nerve and sensitive spot on you. Making you a moaning mess in one minute.

His skillful tongue push inside you, thrusting in and out of your tight hole. His long fingers press into your pearl, rubbing in small circles.  

Looking down, you put your hand on the blanket beside you, clawing tightly. “G..Geralt...Please...” you moan quietly, rocking your hips into his warm tongue. He opens his eyes and looks to you, moaning softly as he sees your e/c eyes darker with lust. The vibrations from his moan spread through your wet slit, making your back arching. “You taste so good, princess!” he said with a growl, making you even wetter.  

You feel your orgasm forming, warming your body. Your eyes roll back when you felt Geralt´s finger thrust inside gently, touching on your weak spot. “Fuck!” your moans and whimpers sounded around the hot room, the air was heavy and smelled like sex.  

His long fingers thrust harder, making you see stars around the room. Your legs squeeze around Geralt´s head as your orgasm broke through your veins, making your blood in liquid fire.  

Outside there was loud thunder that covers your scream as you cum on Geralt´s fingers and mouth. He let out a groan when he feels your sweet nectar dripping into his warm mouth, drinking to the last drop.  

Your body melted into the mattress as your orgasm die out. A whimper escapes from you when you feel Geralt take his skillful finger from inside you, sucking them dry. “Such a good girl you are,” he said while kissing your neck. Your eyes start to feel heavy but when they start closing, Geralt squeezes hard your breast, making you squeal.  

“Don´t sleep on me, princess... the fun just started now,” he said wickedly.

Hey Guys!! Here the new chapter. So what do you think so far? I hope you like it and feel free to comment and tell me what you think!!

Also, the taglist is open! Click right HERE

XOXO

Taglist: @burningcoffeetimetravel | @crazyxreader | @uncoolcloudyhead | @supernaturalvikingwhore | @ellallheart | @notyouraveragemochii | @lucia-leno03 | @bloo-moon-freak | @viyamystic | @decaffeinatedwolfbouquet-8655385 | @mikariell95​ | @notavintagecliche​ | @rynabarnesrogers​ | @salliebley​

[sarcastically-defensive17]

The last time - C. Hood

Part 2 for “The moment I knew”

Original story by sarcastically-defensive17

For the lovely anon who requested a two-part songfic!

Hope you enjoy, lovie!

And requests are always open!

He didn’t intend to find himself facing the red door. The same door he helped paint, and the same door that is covered in uneven patches and brush strokes in every direction because she didn’t want something too basic.

He knew it had to be as unique as the woman herself.

It was something nostalgic. He would knock on her door, she would greet him with a wide smile and a kiss. Every time up until he stopped showing up.

Until he stopped putting her first.

And until she stopped their relationship.

Find myself at your door. Just like all those times before. I’m not sure how I got there

His feet carried him unconsciously, the beers in his stomach working as liquid courage as he sucked in a deep breath.

Was she even home?

Would she answer? Even let him in?

The lights were all off, but there was a soft noise coming from inside as if the television was on.

She always loved to relax on the lounge in the dark with a bowl of popcorn.

All roads they lead me here

There was a possibility that she could be with somebody, the same way she would cuddle with him with a random movie playing as background noise. Something to break the quiet as they lost themselves in one another.

He didn’t have the chance to brace himself to knock, because the small dog at his feet knew the house well.

He thought taking Duke for a walk would be a good idea, but the Corgi/cross had his own idea, as his paws began scratching at the messily painted door.

“Duke! No!” Calum whispered in a stern tone, pulling the dog into his arms and moving to walk away before she noticed they were there.

I imagine you are home. In your room, all alone

Just as he steps off her last step the door opens behind him. He pauses, waiting for it to slam at the sight of him.

Yet nothing comes.

“Calum,” her voice trails off. There’s more shock than malice. After all, it had been near a month since they had seen one another.

He turns to face her, and his world comes crashing down at the sight of her.

Her eyes bore into him and he feels frozen to the spot.

And right before your eyes I'm breaking, no past, no reasons why. Just you and me

“Y/N,” his voices comes out more choked than he intended and suddenly his emotions rush out.

Y/N had never seen her ex-boyfriend look so small.

Her 6” tall, Maori ex who is the toughest man she knew, and with one look in her eyes he was reduced to a sobbing mess with his small dog clutched to his chest with apologies falling from his lips.

She was pulling him up the two steps and into the house within seconds in hopes to not draw the attention of her neighbors.

She shouldn’t have, but she did. She ushered him inside, taking duke from his arms and flicking the lights on.

“Calum?” She held his face on her hands, forcing him to look up at her. “Stop crying please, it’s okay. You’re okay. Just tell me what’s wrong.”

It took a few minutes of reassurance and a soft tone from Y/N before his sobs started to ease.

He still had tears falling, but he was able to stop his shoulders from lurching.

“Why are you here?” Her voice regained the hardness it held on their last phone call, and his heart stopped at the sound before starting the harsh thudding again.

You find yourself at my door, just like all those times before

“I fucked up, Y/N,” his eyes were downcast, fingers tracing the initials marked on his skin. “I fucked up and I don’t know how to fix it. I don’t know how to make you see how I feel.”

She pinched her brows together.

She had made the decision to leave Calum behind for a reason. She was sick of being last on his list. She was sick of having her heart break over and over as he simply forgot about her.

She let out a scoff, “it’s a little too late for apologies, Calum.”

Her fingers were scratching Duke’s head, and she didn’t dare bring her eyes to meet Calum’s.

“No, Y/N just let me-“

“No,” she set the small dog down, standing to her feet and dragging a hand through her hair. “No. You had your chance to explain every time you left me sitting alone in this house while you were off doing god knows what, Calum.”

You wear your best apology, but I was there to watch you leave

“You had your chance to do better, and to actually show up when we had plans or when I needed you. But instead, you left me sitting here. I was all dressed up, wearing your favourite lipstick and ready to spend my birthday with the man I love and my best friends-“

“Baby, please,” his tears started again, and Y/N knew there was real remorse in his tone. She just couldn’t see past her anger. “I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. You didn’t deserve-“

“You’re right, I didn’t deserve that,” her arms were now crossed over her chest and she was facing away from him. If she turned to look him in the eyes she would break down. She knew it. “I didn’t deserve to be left there on my birthday. I didn’t deserve to be treated as if I wasn’t even in a relationship with the man I love,” her own tears started now, and she frowned at herself as her voice cracked. “I didn’t deserve to be made to feel so unwanted, Cal. But that’s how I felt.”

She heard the lounge move behind him and his footsteps grew closer to where she stood.

“That’s how I feel.”

And all the times I let you in, just for you to go again

He put his hand on her shoulder, spinning her around to face him slowly. Her heart nearly shattered at the pure emotion resting in his deep brown eyes.

“I fucked up, there is no excuse I can give you. There is nothing I can say to forgive what I did, Y/N.” His hands are shaking as he places them on her upper arms.

She refuses to look away. It caused her so much pain, but she needed to see his face as he apologized, just to watch for any hint of lies. Even if her vision was blurred by the tears in her eyes.

“I honestly can’t tell you why I treated you so horribly. I guess, I’m scared. I’m scared to have you leave me for somebody better, and I pushed you away.” His hands were now clasping hers, and his voice was wet through his sobs, “please, please believe me when I say that I am so unbelievably sorry that I hurt you. I never wanted to cause somebody so beautiful so much pain, because of either of us deserve it, it’s me. You deserve so much better than me, but I want to be better for you.”

His sobs were returning with force and Duke was judging at his leg with worry.

This is the last time you tell me I've got it wrong

This is the last time I say it's been you all along

This is the last time I let you in my door

This is the last time, I won't hurt you anymore

Tears fell down her face in silence. She was emotional, but nowhere near the level of her ex boyfriend, for hers were spurred from confusion and anger.

She loved Calum. There was no disputing that, but she also knew that the pain he caused her was deep and lasting.

“You know about my parents, Cal. You know that they were never there for me, and I didn’t have anybody until I had you.” He bids his head softly, lips turning down deeper in the corners of his mouth.

He hated her parents. He hated the pain they caused her.

“But then you weren’t there for me. You weren’t there for me when you promised you would be,” she pauses for a minute, breathing deeply to contain the emotions threatening to spill over. “I can’t be at the bottom of your list anymore. I can’t have somebody else leave me, I just can’t go through it again.”

His heart broke at the vulnerability on her face. Y/N was the strongest woman he knew, but to see her break in such a way would always rip his heart in two.

Just like it did when she first opened up to him about her past.

“I promise,” he held her face in his palms the way she did to him earlier in the night. “I promise, no more. No more putting everything above you. I can’t lose you again, baby. I can’t. I need you in my life.”

This is the last time I'm asking you this put my name at the top of your list

“Cal-“

“This is the last time I hurt you, I promise, darling,” his voice is low, and he leans his forehead against hers.

Her breathing is shaky and her eyes fall closed. Her mind is racing a mile a minute, what if’s and possibilities darting through her head.

This is the last time I'm asking you why you break my heart in the blink of an eye

When she speaks again, she hopes her voice isn’t too broken.

“I’m scared, Cal. I’m scared to be hurt again, especially by somebody I love so much.” She pulls back from him, opening her eyes and letting tears fall as she looks into his. “This is the last time that I ask you to be there for me. The last time that I forgive you.”

A small smile breaks onto his face and his heart jumps with the possibility of where her words lead.

“This is the last time I let you walk through that door with an apology. If this happens again then I don’t want to see you anymore. I can’t be hurt again, Calum.”

“The last time,” he nods, connecting their foreheads once again. “I promise, baby.”

Last time I'm asking you this

[volleyball-dontknowher]

you know I’m an annoying dumbass but I can tend to be quiet at times😌 I like doing artsy stuff like embroidery or something musical, my biggest pet peeve is when someone mansplains. My favourite colour is purple, my ideal date is cinema/bowling and a meal. If I’ve fallen hard for a guy, I simp hard😌 you know I have a thing for “right dickheads”👀 but I would love someone who loves cuddles and being fluffy. Do your worst Nat, I’m thirsty and I need some nsfw please 😚😚

Match-ups open! 

I hope you enjoy this bb!! I am so nervous for you to read this aaaaaah I hope you like it idk if not please take my left leg as a sacrifice 

I ship you with 

Tanaka!!!!

First off hear me out you two are both goofy and serious but also super caring for your friends and passionate about the things you are interested in and he gives back the sass that you dish out so please hear me out 

The two of you are literally is perfect for each other like it is simp city between the two of you and you can’t help but spoil each other all the time, if not with little gifts or presents than through words and actions like you both take such good care of each other 

If you ever bake him anything he is going to cherish it so much and is going to show it off to everyone around him and brag about you and you, of course, request a ton of kisses as payment from him and he will literally tackle you onto the couch and kiss you until you are begging him to stop

In public, he always looks like such a badass, like he is going to keep an arm around you and death glare every single boy who even crosses paths with you but at home, he is so soft for you like he is going to make sure that you are comfy all the time and is going to take such good care of you like he will make you tea and bring you snacks al the time 

If you embroider the two of you little matching logos of your initials onto a jacket or something he will never ever ever take it off like it will be his prized possession because it is so cute and then you made it and he cherishes it and if he leaves it anywhere (even at work) he goes back right away for it because he always likes to know where it is 

He is a horrible chef when you first meet but he really wants to impress your family and so he learns to cook so that you guys can all have a home-cooked meal by him, he even offers to help out with almost every family meal and at your family take away like one night it was short-staffed and he got his ass in there and cooked for hours because he wants to see it do well and he knows it’s the right thing to do and uggh it was perfect 

The two of you will go back and forth about who is cuter and he is always going to win, unfortunately for you but he is so stubborn and makes sure that you know that he thinks you are the prettiest girl to have ever walked this planet

 He hypes you up like no one else like you will be painting and drawing and he gets the tiniest glance of it before you try and hide it from him and he takes it from you and just admires it so much like if it is even halfway done he starts looking for places that you can hang it up

He is horrible at bowling but absolutely loves going with you like he either gets a strike or a gutter ball and there is no in-between and so you either get pummeled or you win with no competition 

He has no idea how a period works buttt he is going to spoil you rotten like he will get you chocolates and curl up in bed with you giving oyu tons of kisses while you watch animes and movies in bed and he asks a lot if you are feeling okay because he is worried about you and if you ask him to get you tampons he just knows that you need something called “regular” even though you are super….he about makes an ass of himself but then watches a youtube video of some guy explaining it and then it all falls in place and then he is in shock like you really keep that up there for what  

He literally could never mansplain anything to you because he is never like that but one time you were struggling with your bra and he was like just hook it together, duh and you made him do it and he was cheeky and smiling the whole time because that was his whole plan

Oh my gosh Tanaka cannot sing but he absolutely loves to try in the car with you, he cranks up the music and tries to sing along even though his voice is terrible and hie has no idea what the words are, it is always super sweet though like he is going to smile at you and belt the words to the song 

If you ever forget sunglasses he will have you wear his over your glasses and cause he doesn’t want you to go blind because then you couldn’t see his face 

He loves giving you his sweatshirts like his whole wardrobe practically becomes yours and if he wants something he will ask you first and just smile at you because  “you look hot’ 

Oh my gosh cuddles with him are the absolute best like he is down any time and will let you cuddle him however you want like if you want to be completely smothering him then you can, or if you want to lay in his lap, cool

He loves laying in your lap after a long day like he will lay on top of you and let you pet his fuzzy head 

Oh my gosh walking down the street with him everyone stares at the two of you like you are both so pretty and radiate such cool energy that you make people jealous and Tanaka always smiles and tells you that it’s because you are so smoking hot that people can’t stay away

You will come home and Tanaka got a puppy and is holding it with big eyes asking if you can keep it, so now you two have a dog together and it’s the most adorable thing ever like he will constantly fall asleep with the dog on his lap and gets it one of those badass collars so that it looks cool but coos at it every time it does something cute

He will literally take the cutest pictures of you and with you, like he is just so good at it somehow like even on bleh days he just makes pictures shine so you guys have the most Instagram-able pictures together and it is so sweet like his whole camera roll is just of you and occasionally your dog

He surprises you with vacations randomly, like he is going to find something he wants to see and just books the whole thing for the two of you and will take you everywhere and loves to see the world with you even though he may be really far off with things sometimes he really likes to try and impress you 

NSFW: 

Anything even remotely kinky you have ever thought of, so has Tanaka like the two of you are going to have a lot of sex and try a lot of different things all the time and it is going to never get old, Tanaka could have sex every single night and then again when you wake in the morning so if you are ever down then he is down 

I haven’t said this before but we all know that Tanaka doesn’t get his confidence from nothing like the man is completely packing and he knows it 

Casual sex is going to be super common between the two of oyu like you will be watching a movie on the couch and Tanaka gets bored and starts to play with the hem of your pants before sliding his hands down your pants and slowly fingering you, sometimes he will allow this to escalate to full-on sex, but other times he makes you sit there and enjoy it When the two of you are watching a movie on the couch and Tanaka gets bored with whatever it is he starts messing with the Hem of your shorts and slips a few fingers down in your panties and will start fingering you, some days this leads to fill out sex, some days he makes you sit there squirming as he fingers you until you orgasm several times then sometimes that leads to more sex depending on the mood he's in

If you flip the cards on him and start messing with the Hem of his pants 20% of the time you actually end up getting you are way, the other 80 percent he's going to flip you to over on the couch 

If you flip the cards on him and start messing with the Hem of his pants 20% of the time you actually end up getting you are way, the other 80 percent he's going to flip you to over on the couch and tease you until you are begging for him and then he will fuck you and make you moan out his name and go for at least two rounds on the couch as he pulls your legs over his shoulders and pounds into you as his lips attach to your breasts and leave tons of little red marks to claim you as his, the other position on the couch will be him flipping you over with your face down and ass up as he thrusts harshly into you and he will have one hand stabilizing your hip and the other hand pulling your hair or wrapped around your neck and then when he is done with you for the first couple of rounds he will pick you up and carry you to bed for another round 

If you actually get your way and you get to start messing with him and the hem of his pants then he is going to let you do your thing, he knows that he is big and would never ever force you all the way down him but if you can do that then he is going to lose his mind almost instantly because holy shit that is the hottest thing that he has ever seen and he is super sensitive on his underside so if you lick up the bottom he is going to be groaning and moaning at you 

If you wear lingerie around Tanaka you better now have any plans for the rest of the night and for the next day as well like he is going to take you to the bed and will fuck you all night then wake you up again in the morning by kissing your neck for another few sessions before he takes you to breakfast and at breakfast, he is unable to keep his eyes off of you and keeps telling you how sexy you are and how pretty you are 

Oh my gosh send his man nudes, he is going to be so supportive of them like he is going to hype you like nothing else and you will find them framed once or twice and have to convince him to take it down but if you ever draw him nudes he is going to show them off to everyone like no shame this is one thing that he can’t get over, he would never show people you naked but that’s a picture so it’s different 

He also absolutely loves coming up behind you and kissing your neck with his hands on your waists as he sways with you all the time like he is going to do it all the time and it always is super sweet and sexy 

He is also going to be so into shower sex like you look so hot like that, naked and wet already, he can’t help but push you up against the shower wall and fuck you

[armsinthewronghands]

Ron Edwards Making No Sense

https://plus.google.com/u/0/110790893064742233179/posts/JJj6ow3fEX5

Wayne Snyder Shared privately  -  Aug 18, 2015

Simon Bisley, 1997

(NOTE FOR THE TRANSCRIPT: The post consisted of a Simon Bisley painting)

43 Ron Edwards's profile photoMike Evans's profile photoMichael Moscrip's profile photoRichard Grenville's profile photo 84 comments

Richard GrenvilleAug 18, 2015+4 5 4

If I were in my bikini and bird mask ensemble I would not like to be in that position under all those razor-sharp spider parts, is all I'm saying. 

Richard GrenvilleAug 18, 2015

+Jeremy Duncan #startingequipment for Oriax?

Asia PickleAug 18, 2015

I do like his stuff. You ever seen that TV show Spaced?

Ron EdwardsAug 18, 2015

plus for audacity, but yeesh, Simon, you get the big bucks, try some figure drawing

Zak SmithAug 18, 2015+5 6 5

That is a baffling comment +Ron Edwards. I don't know if you mean to have a conversation about art here but techmastery snark against Simon Bisley is about as misplaced as taking Aretha Franklin to task for not knowing how to sing. Any distortions of naturalistic anatomy in Bisley are chosen stylistic effects.

Rafael ChandlerAug 18, 2015+3 4 3

Sweet. Love the bird-girl. Thinking she might not be human -- look at them fingers.

Ron EdwardsAug 18, 2015+3 4 3

+Zak Smith Ohhhh, I have been schooled now. I'm saying this as someone who likes you: fuck off, Zak. Can't a person post anything without you comin' in as Master Scold? Do you own art? All of it, or just Bisley? Can you not face being baffled, as you call it? Or that a person can post something wrong, like really wrong horribly OMG wrong, and the world won't collapse if you don't correct it?

And no, this isn't a debate. I don't like Bisley so much, so what, it's not going to change the world.

People knuckle under to you for one reason: because they're scared of being vilified Limbaugh-wise. You've got the moral high ground, the professional success, the accolades, and a life you can be proud of. Any reason you have to be a bully?

Answer me that before you crack down on me again.

Zak SmithAug 18, 2015+1 2 1

1. There's a difference between "I don't like Bisley" (statement of opinion, unarguable) And "Bisley lacks technical ability" (assertion of fact, arguable) and the second is so far as I can tell, simply misinformation. I have a moral obligation to correct it if I see it because you don't want people acting on bad information. 2.How are the rest of us supposed to know which of your many public opinions you want to discuss and which one we'll be attacked for discussing? You snarked at Simon Bisley (he didn't attack you), I neutrally commented that I don't think that was warranted, now you're biting my head off? 3. If you didn't want to talk about your opinion, why'd you say it where other people could read it? 4. How can a person with no coercive power over you be "bullying"? +Ron Edwards +Mike Davison 

David BaityAug 18, 2015

+Zak Smith lmfao

Victor Garrison (headspice)Aug 18, 2015+1 2 1

+Rafael Chandler​, Dude, what are you? A "fingers man"?

Ron EdwardsAug 18, 2015+1 2 1

+Zak Smith You hold and openly wield immense coercive power. You are a master of single-messaging people about whom they plus or not-plus, of posting public messages to shame, and of leveraging your deserved reputation as a great artist and contributor to the hobby for weight in conversations. You are widely feared and operate as a chilling agent throughout many discussions in which your tangible interests are not involved. You may intend this or you may not; I am not speaking to that. But either way, do not play "Li'l ol' me."

I won't be looking at this thread again until tomorrow, in case that interests anyone.

Zak SmithAug 18, 2015+1 2 1

Which one of these "powers" is forbidden from Mere Normal Men? "A master of single-messaging"? That isn't a magic spell, Ron, you can do that, too. +Ron Edwards You just type. As for "leveraging my reputation"--you can't simultaneously claim someone has a deserved reputation for contributions in a field and then claim that their influence is unfair . Either the reputation is deserved and so they should be influential. Or it isn't and they shouldn't.

Tony DemetriouAug 18, 2015+2 3 2

I love Bisley, and his style. This is pretty representative of my ideal goal, if I could magically make art in any style I choose.

The distorted anatomy is perfect, in the same way that I enjoy Disney animation - the choices of how to stylize or not to stylize it gives so much character to the piece. And I'm lucky that the choices Bisley makes are the ones I find appealing.

And those colours!

+Ron Edwards Um, not intending to dogpile or anything. I totally get why you might not like this :) - But I can't agree with the "figure drawing" comment, to my eye he clearly has mastered figure drawing, and now is deciding which rules to break. That's what I love most about this piece!

So when I see you criticize his anatomy, I assume that we've got a mismatch when it comes to what we enjoy about the stylizations.

I say this because in other posts you've made, you've linked to comics and referenced art with much weaker figure drawing than this without commenting on the lack of technical skills. While that might not mean anything, is it just that you find these particular ones to be ugly?

Joshua BlackketterAug 18, 2015

.

David Lewis JohnsonAug 18, 2015

.

Ron EdwardsAug 19, 2015

A new day, and two fallacies await.

1. The "magic spell" is classic deflection. I said nothing of who can and cannot do those things. Single-messaging is obviously available to everyone; . The question is why you do them, which you are failing to answer.

2. Deserved reputation in doing a thing, in this case art, is not a moral obligation (your term) to do some other thing. Especially if that other thing is itself morally unsound.

These were also posted as provocation: I said I wouldn't be looking at the thread again until today, which I didn't. You posted immediately with fallacy statements, which you're not dumb enough to believe are valid. I think you know well a person can barely if ever resist replying to such things. Then you can play "ah ha you were too looking." You caught me with that once, and that dog hunts no more.

I don't think you are posting in good social or intellectual faith. What frustrates me is that you usually do post in good faith, and with points I generally value - until someone flips your Scold Switch, and you launch into these modes of attack which have long passed their high-school sell-date. They're beneath you. Yes, anyone can do them, and again: why would you?

One more check-in tomorrow to see if you answer this time. Then I'm done.

Zak SmithAug 19, 2015+1 2 1

+Ron Edwards *People don't have ideas different than yours just to piss you off, Ron* You assume bad faith: this is not good. - 1. It isn't "Deflection"--Bullying by definition requires the bully have abilities the target does not. I cannot bully you as I possess no such powers. - 1b.  As for why I'd single-message someone: Because sometimes going "Dude do you know what's going on in that thread?" would derail a public thread so you send them a private message. Right now I genuinely don't know why you're attacking me or why anyone of good conscience would join in with you. I need facts. So I asked. - 2. Everybody has a moral obligation to fact-check stuff that's discussed. Period. You (or anyone else) say an inaccurate thing, it needs to get fact-checked. "I don't like Simon Bisley" requires no comment. "Simon Bisley lacks technical ability" requires a fact-check, just like "girls don't play D&D" or "game have to look like textbooks" or any other incorrect fact I come on here and check. - 2b. I say and believe things you disagree with  because I believe they're true, not out of a sadistic desire to upset you. (This probably goes for a lot of people.) I, of course, never post fallacies and don't do so in order to "provoke" people. Provoking you achieves nothing. It is a bizarre and paranoid conspiracy theory to assume I someone get some special cookie for making you (or anyone else) mad. Like what's my supposed motive in your worldview? I didn't wake up hating Simon Bisley just as much as you yesterday and suddenly pretend to think he had technical skill just because I thought it would upset Ron Edwards! And what a joy upsetting Ron Edwards is? Right? Oh I am so glad I got to do this! What glee  I have reaped from manufacturing this false opinion about my own profession simply in order to upset one random man! That would be like you pretending bats are made of goat cheese in order to piss off a biologist you don't like. Evidence I liked Bisley before today is not thin on the ground, nor is evidence that I fact-check people when they get things wrong. I would hope, as a biologist, you'd think fact-checking bullshit about your area of study is an end in itself . I feel the same way about art. When you make false  accusations and I counter them you are not the only audience for fact-checks I may do to those false accusations. Every single person who might ever read since the beginning of time needs to know you aren't telling the truth, not just you. Now:  The person making a claim has the burden of proof--if you are claiming I am lying prove that now.

Wayne SnyderAug 19, 2015+3 4 3

That's some pretty funny shit right there. This could have been one of those art posts where folks comment, "Cool." Or "Awesome!" But ya'll have brought the comments bar up a notch to down right entertaining. To bad you can't hear me slow clapping.

Wayne SnyderAug 19, 2015+2 3 2

But I must admit, I'm a bit sad it turned out to be an argument about arguing instead of an art criticism debate.

Tony DemetriouAug 19, 2015

Alas - the internet!

Zak SmithAug 19, 2015+2 3 2

+Wayne Snyder Would be happy to have the art criticism debate if there was someone who wanted to throw down on the other side. But that never really does happen.

Tony DemetriouAug 19, 2015

I don't know if anyone here has the technical chops to have that debate, +Zak Smith ?

Zak SmithAug 19, 2015+1 2 1

The whole talkin'-RPGs business relies on articulate amateurism +Tony Demetriou, if everybody here can say why they don't like Palladium or Pathfinder or Prometheus, they can, in theory, say why they think a painting fails. They may not be able to refer to personal experience painting, but I am not going to pull rank here and claim you need an MFA to critique a picture.

Tony DemetriouYesterday 12:22 AM

I kinda feel that, having played 2-10 hours of RPGs per week for a couple of decades now, I can speak as an expert on the topic (while recognizing there are many other experts)

With pictures, I can talk about what I like. But I don't really know how to engage in a criticism debate. Willing to try, of course! Especially since I learn so much by a good debate :)

Soooo....

What's with Bisley's neon colours? I love them, but my first impression when looking at this picture is a mess of brightness. That seems to be the opposite of when I look at, say, Franzetta who tends to use one dominant colour for the whole picture.

Is that a failing on Bisley's part, or just a stylistic preference? I love the colours, but could it have been possible to have made a picture like this, without the first impression being such a mess? Maybe better separation of them, rather than similar tones on overlapping objects?

I also find he often muddies the picture with unnecessary detail - like this picture has a great silhouette, and he pulls the two humans out of the background by making them brighter than the background. But the spider seems like it's a mess. What's with those skulls beneath its legs, that are the same colour as the legs, and the same brightness and contrast? It forces my eye to do work to figure out what I'm looking at. It doesn't "lead the eye" around the picture very well.

I'm a fan of both headdresses, but the material on the guy's one seems off - it looks like it's meant to be feathers, but to me it looks like some sort of white cardboard. The girl's headdress feathers look soft, which is what I'd expect from the guy's headdress too.

And the spider's abdomen kinda looks half finished? It looks like there's the brown from the background drawn over it. Or is that some sort of green in the background and not an abdomen? I dunno. I don't like it!

... but these are my nitpicks - as a whole image, I adore it!

Zak SmithYesterday 2:21 AM

I don't understand +Tony Demetriou , you have looked at far more pictures in your life than played games, why aren't you an expert on that, too?

Tony DemetriouYesterday 3:16 AM

Because of my nature.

I've mentally broken down and analysed what makes RPGs "work" and created my own, which tests my theories.

I've looked at many pictures, but until relatively recently (maybe 5 years ago?) I haven't been engaging with it in the same way. I'm trying to learn to draw, and it's given me a new perspective on art - I'm noticing things that I was never aware of before. My understanding of form and structure and linework is so much advanced just from this hobbyist learning - and I'm sure that once I go further I'll have similar gains with my understanding of tone, colour etc. once I start learning how to apply that too. So I "know how much I don't know" if that makes sense?

Maybe it's just how I learn - I very much "learn by doing", which explains why I'm more comfortable considering myself an expert on things that I make or do, rather than things I mostly observed.

That said - in the post above, I've given my criticisms of this picture. Do you agree or disagree with them, or have any comments of your own?

Zak SmithYesterday 3:26 AM+1 2 1

It can't be just you, as nearly every single intelligent person not trained inthe field is terrified of rendering an attempt at an intelligent opinion of a piece of art. As if it were somehow 1000 times more complex than a movie (which every person has opinions on). As for your criticisms: perhaps what they lack is a sufficient counterexample--like who does right the things you guess possibly he did wrong ? 

Tony DemetriouYesterday 3:39 AM

Good point. I have no problem at all discussing movies, and the artistry involved. Maybe it's some sort of assumed-complexity due to art criticism being viewed as some elite field?

Hmm, a counterexample - I can absolutely give examples of people who do it differently but I don't know if that means they're doing it right.

- For the bright colours, a lot of cartoons and 3D animation uses bright colours without the first impression being so confused. The artwork isn't nearly as good (in my opinion), but this picture is also brightly coloured, while still "reading" easily at first glance: http://www.wisdomswebzine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Tangled.jpg

I suspect it's because, although there are bright colours, it's still a pretty limited palette - mostly blue and purple. It also keeps the characters silhouetted by dressing Flynn in darker colours and with dark hair against the white horse, and putting the darker blue behind the horse.

Rembrant's The Night Watchman is a great example of a very busy picture with a lot of detail, where the detail doesn't muddy the picture (although it makes me feel like I've forgotten my glasses...) https://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2011/03/19/the-night-watchman/

If Bisley had done something similar around the spider & figures it might have helped give it a clearer shape, and stopped the spider being such a mess?

For the headdress - I think Bisley's own picture is the best example of doing it "right" - the woman's headdress feathers look great, the man's looks like cardboard. I think he should have softened the edges of the man's feathers.

For the spider's abdomen... uh, it just looks half finished to me. I don't think that needs a comparison? Although there certainly are other pictures that use that same effect.

Zak SmithYesterday 3:46 AM

+Tony Demetriou "I can absolutely give examples of people who do it differently but I don't know if that means they're doing it right." Well if you like it they're doing it right and if you don't they' aren't

Wayne SnyderYesterday 3:55 AM+2 3 2

Bisley is known for his bizarre pallette choices. I know he often used automotive paint in his illustrations. He's riffing off Frazettas choices, but taking it up a notch. Bisley is a heavy metal painter. He is painting visual representations of heavy metal music for the covers of a magazine called heavy metal. So the subject matter is over the top brutality and horror and sexuality. If you removed the spider and the warhammer from this piece it would just be pornography. The beef cake warrior's bulging junk is aimed directly at the sorceress's bulging junk and the course of image is obvious. But it is both, it is sex and violence in a pure cartoon proportioned form. It is the teenage mind and that is who is supposed to buy the magazine this is a cover for. I don't know why he put that skull mess in the center. I suspect without it the composition would be lopsided. Maybe it just wasn't "metal" enough for the Biz, so he added the skulls. It may have even been the choice of a art director and the Biz just wanted to get it out the door and get paid. But I doubt that. 

Zak SmithYesterday 4:05 AM+3 4 3

I think "when in doubt skulls" is a pretty good creative default

Richard GrenvilleYesterday 5:37 AM+3 4 3

Regarding people's reticence about art crit, I guess I'll state the obvious to get it out there: there is a whole industry of art critics, which was at some stage dedicated to placing painting and sculpture (although not really printmaking) in a special separate category elevated above the vulgar horde - to promoting the value of art as a vital endeavour in which humans aspired to the level of gods. And even if critics haven't done much of this in the past couple of generations, some of those old attitudes still linger on, especially in primary schools which tend to be the last refuge of ancient pedagogical ideas.* And those old values still inform the economics of the art market (the aura of the art object, the figure of the artist as a conduit into some extraordinary other world). So I suspect people might be reticent to talk about paintings partly because they're haunted by the snooty ghost of e.g. Vasari or Jacob Burckhardt, refracted through a thousand indirect sources, telling them there is something spiritual and ineffable in there which is not for the likes of them. The fact that this picture in particular is not in the (socioeconomic) category elevated by Vasari or Burkhardt but makes use of its gestures probably makes things worse, not better.

In contrast, AIUI in the early days of film there were conscious efforts made by auteur directors on one hand and populist producers on the other either to place the medium firmly in the elevated sphere of Art or to rescue it from that ivory tower and make it democratic, for the people. Perhaps the economic possibilities of mass-market film just blew away the arguments on the high art side. Perhaps the costs of commercial film production spiraled out of the hands of individual directors making their individual artistic statements and left only oligarchical demagogues, reliant on sometimes-subversive film-making experts.

* and some innovative ones too, I'm not dissing early education here.

Ron EdwardsYesterday 8:38 AM

+Zak Smith You're not hitting anything with that reply. I never said you were doing this vindictively to upset me personally as me. I'm saying you use rhetorical and social tricks to marginalize people when they post things that .. whatever it is those things do that prompts it. It fits into your own definition of bullying - because using techniques not only that others don't have, but that they won't use, counts in that definition. You said my post "baffled" you, yeah, well it baffles me that a person of your qualities and insights would do these things.

You're saying Bisley's distortions serve his (an) artistic purpose. You can just say so. You don't have to pursue anyone who plusses me saying something else. You don't have to claim "moral obligation" to put me or anyone else down, with chilling and silencing techniques. It's this pious scolding and shaming I'm talking about. Not difference of views about the artist - in fact, if you'd asked in a real way, you'd have found that I like the way Bisley does it most of the time, not so much in this picture this time. I did not say "Bisley can't draw bodies and can never draw bodies and never did." That is your trip, you brought it in, and all your high-minded fact-checking claim to being the intellectual in the room is based on that alone. You revved up your moral fires for nothing.

All of the potential for easy contrast of posts, no status issues, open to the reader to evaluate or ignore, is gone when you descend with your blazing moral obligation in play. You talk about assuming things? You assumed vast tracts of attitude, position, and intention in my post, so hard you "saw" them. You've created an entertainment environment where people can enjoy you putting someone down. That's bullying.

Daily check-in tomorrow. It is remotely possible that this could be a worthwhile conversation.

Zak SmithYesterday 9:04 AM

+Richard Grenville Sure, but just because someone is telling you to stay in your class and let them handle the heavy lifting, why would you let them?

Zak SmithYesterday 9:18 AM

+Ron Edwards 1. Why would I want to marginalize you? Your claim has no motive. 2. Asking people why their friends or allies are being dicks isn't a "trick". It's a straightforward way of dealing with bad behavior. 3. No definition (including mine) of bullying includes "don't use techniques that are totally legit and make sense and that are designed to make the person making a false accusation stop" which is what these "techniques" were doing. 4. You're using a begging-the-question argument "What you did is obviously motivated by badness because it uses techniques that are bad and those techniques are bad because they are motivated by bad" 5. "You're saying Bisley's distortions serve his (an) artistic purpose. You can just say so. You don't have to pursue anyone who plusses me saying something else." I didn't do that. I only talked toone other person--Mike Davison--once you called me "bullying" because that is an insane charge. If you call me bullying--you are lying. If someone I consider a friend plusses that lie--I must address that with my friend. Period. Anything else would be irresponsible on my part. Also, in my original comments to you I didn't say the distortions "served an artistic purpose" I said he wanted them to serve an artistic purpose , which is different, in case you didn't know that, which your joke (implying the distortions were mistakes) seemed to indicate. 5. "You don't have to claim "moral obligation" to put me or anyone else down," I didn't "put you down" I fact-checked you. You asserted Bisley's distortions were down to not knowing how to draw accurately (rather than choice).This is not subjective--his distortions may be (subjectively) undesirable but they are (objectively) not "because he doesn't know any better". Therefore you said something objectively inaccurate in a semi-public space . Anyone who knew you had said this and knew the truth would have an obligation to point out the fact-checking error. 6. "in fact, if you'd asked in a real way,..." Once you express yourself in the form of a snarky attack, you don't then get to demand benefit-of-the-doubt from someone defending your target. Bisley did not begin a conversation by making fun of you . You attacked Bisley. I defended him. You then attacked me. 7. ". I did not say "Bisley can't draw bodies and can never draw bodies and never did."" No, you just made a joke to that effect at his expense and then accused me of bullying instead of going "Oh, sorry, that's not what I meant, let's sort this out" 8. "You assumed vast tracts of..." I assumed nothing. I interpreted that you made a snarky joke at Bisley's expense.  *I can only be accused of assuming if you are claiming your comment was not a snarky joke at Bisley's expense.* You got a reasonable response to that directed not just at you, but to any naive 3rd party who doesn't knowmuch about art who might be reading (naive viewers might take your joke at face value and they need to be disabused of that and know the artist you're attacking can actually identify body parts and where they go). 9. " You've created an entertainment environment where people can enjoy you putting someone down. " I wasn't putting you down, I was fact-checking you. If someone enjoys that outside of some pre-existing reasont o dislike you, they are a total asshole. If someone sees that as important and necessary, they are correct.

Richard GrenvilleYesterday 9:48 AM+2 3 2

just because someone is telling you to stay in your class and let them handle the heavy lifting, why would you let them?

this seems like it might also have some bearing on your conversation with Ron - my guess is that a lot of people feel discouraged in talking about art the same way they would feel discouraged in discussing engineering, only even more so. On one hand, they feel ignorant about what they imagine is a specialized field of knowledge (like engineering). But also they have a sense that they might trip off some kind of lurking art trap and get laughed at by the cognoscenti for their ignorance or something, as if they'd used the wrong fork at a gala dinner.

Class anxiety may be silly and useless but it's real for lots of people and harder to negotiate than ever now that it no longer runs in simple hegemonic directions. 

...I'm not saying that Ron is suffering from class anxiety. Just realised I didn't leave that clear. 

Zak SmithYesterday 9:53 AM+1 2 1

Use whatever fork. Know why you made that decision. Speak with the courage of your convictions if someone gives you static about it.

Victor Garrison (headspice)Yesterday 9:54 AM+2 3 2

My only criticism of this piece is: why did he paint such awesomely proportioned derriere and legs and stick those spooky, fucking spindly assed fingers on her hand?!?!?

I mean as far as drawing in your gaze, it's obvious Biz intentionally wanted her ass to be seen first. I say this not because I'm a perv (tho I won't deny that charge) but because it's pretty much center and hi-lighted more brightly than anything else. Your gaze moves from there over to his crotch, up his breast plate, to his face and then -- OH SHIT!-- to the monster. I like how he lures you in with submissive sexuality, brings you further along with brute sexuality, then BAM knocks you in the head with a hideous creature. Nice work, nice work.

Rafael ChandlerYesterday 9:55 AM

+Victor Garrison He gave her fingers like that so you could tell your friends, "Hey, man, she gave me her digits." <rimshot>

Richard GrenvilleYesterday 10:12 AM+1 2 1

for me it's a tangle of long golden-brown forms that could be a tree root or something, and then I see a butt, and then the rest kinda unmasks slowly. 

Zak SmithYesterday 10:16 AM+1 2 1

The greens of the spider come on before anything else for me

Victor Garrison (headspice)Yesterday 10:28 AM+1 2 1

+S Robertson , If you're telling a linear story, yeah, that's the route to take. But it seems to me that Bisley is going for a visceral "EWWW" reaction. It's a dark piece, so much so, that IMO, it almost looks like a black velvet painting technique was used. The bird woman's butt is the brightest spot in the painting, which is a signal to start viewing there. Especially since that spot seems to be the counterbalance to the large, dark negative space at the top of the painting. The next closest bright spot is the cod piece, then the breast plate, then the helmet, and that's when I made out the spider creature. IDK, that's just the way I encountered it, not as a story, but as an....oh shit, MONSTER! kinda thing.

Victor Garrison (headspice)Yesterday 10:32 AM

+Zak Smith  Damn, I didn't realize that green was the spider. Seriously, I thought it was shrubbery and had no clue wtf he stuck that in a dungeon.

Justice PlattYesterday 10:45 AM+1 2 1

Good to see that Zak knows what Ron said better than Ron does.  There is absolutely no contradiction between the belief that Bisley chose not to do good figure drawing for whatever reason and RE's comment.

Victor Garrison (headspice)Yesterday 10:57 AM+1 2 1

+Rafael Chandler​​, I wanna say I "dig it", but I'm reaching, yet I can't grasp it.... :)

Zak SmithYesterday 2:06 PM

+Justice Platt How do you interpret: "yeesh, Simon, you get the big bucks, try some figure drawing" ?

Justice PlattYesterday 2:14 PM+1 2 1

+Zak Smith , three points:

1)There is no logical contradiction between saying that and believing the artist capable of figure drawing.

2)The guy who said it says that' he did not in fact assert that Bisley cannot draw bodies.

3)It is entirely plausible that he meant to point to the lack of use of figure drawing skills.  Example: The Packers go 3 & out on consecutive off-tackle runs.  I say "Yeesh, Rodgers, you get the big bucks, try some passing" in whatever tone of voice you like.  I clearly mean, as a reasonably informed football fan, that the Packers are making a strategic blunder by not using Rodgers' passing skills.  I think the situation is exactly analogous for RE as a comic fan.

So, yeah, you seem to have jumped to conclusions about his asserting Bisley's lack of skill.

Zak SmithYesterday 2:23 PM

+Justice Platt Are you saying you think the comment was intended to be a responsible and constructive comment rather than (at best) vague snark?

Justice PlattYesterday 2:28 PM+1 2 1

I make no claims to being able to read RE's mind. He speaks for himself well.   I'm saying that your blanket statement that RE asserted that Bisley has no skill is false on logical grounds, on the grounds of the testimony of the author, and on the grounds that there exists a strongly plausible alternate interpretation.  Is any of this not true?

Zak SmithYesterday 2:30 PM

+Justice Platt I suggest only that RE;s comment was snarky and negative enough that my initial comment was necessary to clarify the facts. His subsequent comments could have been "Oh, that's not what I mean" and I'd go "Oh, ok" But instead he went "YOU CLARIFIED AFTER MY SNARKY COMMENT! YOU ARE BULLYING ME!" at which point he passed from "requiring clarification" to simply "wrong and insane"

Justice PlattYesterday 2:36 PM+1 2 1

+Zak Smith , bullshit.  You have repeated a false thing-that RE asserted that Bisley has no skill in figure drawing-multiple times, even after clarification from the author.  In no way did RE's reaction force you to do that, and blaming him for it is ridiculous.

Zak SmithYesterday 2:41 PM

+Justice Platt If he disagrees with that assertion, then he may say that and I will have no choice but to take him at his word. It does't retroactively mean: -My initial clarifying comment was in any way insulting or unnecessary (as his  initial comment was, at best, ambiguous and, at best, still insulting snark) and -any of his later statements were in any way ok, since they contain crazy false accusations

Justice PlattYesterday 2:53 PM

+Zak Smith ,  the issue is not RE and the terrible things he allegedly  forced you to do.  You are not telling the truth about what he said. My 1st & 3rd points from my comment above at 4:14 applied before you replied, and you jumped to the conclusion that he must be asserting that Bisley had no skill.  Further, it is a rather insulting assumption that a lifelong, voracious comics reader like RE has no awareness of Bisley's work & skill.

Zak SmithYesterday 2:56 PM

+Justice Platt If Ron feels that I have misrepresented his position, he can say so. My first comment is wholly justified because it was there to clarify the situation after his snark. My subsequent comments were necessary to to establish that he was not telling the truth about bullying.

Justice PlattYesterday 3:09 PM

+Zak Smith , textual evidence is what it is.  Did you in fact jump to conclusions and make false statements about what RE asserted or not?  Were those conclusions based on the insulting assumption that RE was unaware of Bisley's skill or not?  If the answer to any of these is no, which of my three points is untrue?

Zak SmithYesterday 3:48 PM

+Justice Platt I already spoke to this: " If Ron feels that I have misrepresented his position, he can say so. (Neither of us know what he meant.) My first comment is wholly justified because it was there to clarify the situation after his snark. My subsequent comments were necessary to to establish that he was not telling the truth about bullying. "

Justice PlattYesterday 4:12 PM

More bullshit.  Your entire justification for ongoing intervention has been that you need (in fact have a moral obligation) to correct RE's error of fact-an error of fact that you made up.  RE points out to you that you did so, and you repeat it yet again!  In bold even!    

As far as your subsequent statements go, this is more "Ron made me do it" nonsense.  Simply put, you can take issue with someone's tone, or with someone's attribution to you of bullying behavior, without insisting that your tendentious interpretation of his statement is utterly correct. You are perfectly aware of this.

So, do you believe that RE's statement must and can only mean that Bisley lacks technical skill or not?  If not, will you retract those parts of your statements in which you definitively, unambiguously assert that this is the case? .   And, yes, this is important.  There is at least one person on the internet with a strong propensity to twist any statements by RE that can be twisted and attack RE with them.   The person I have in mind also clearly values your opinion, and would be happy to have fodder for his horseshit that he can present as approved by you.  Whether or not there is an analogy to your own situation is up to you.

Zak SmithYesterday 4:21 PM+1 2 1

+Justice Platt " do you believe that RE's statement must and can only mean that Bisley lacks technical skill or not? " I do not know what it means, I only know what: -I think it implied and -that Ron, instead of clarifying, chose to attack me " If not, will you retract those parts of your statements in which you definitively, unambiguously assert that this is the case?" If Ron says this isn't what he meant, then he can say that, at which point I will go "ok, then that's clear now" but all of my actions remained justified: His first statement morally required that I (or someone) clarify--as it strongly implied Bisley didn't know how to draw. My later statements were likewise, *morally required* because Ron falsely claimed he was being bullied.

Justice PlattYesterday 4:35 PM

+Zak Smith , a man who does not know what a statement means does not repeatedly, confidently, unambiguously, in bold offer an interpretation of that statement, nor does he present it as a definite error of fact someone made, nor does he assert that he has a "moral obligation" to correct it.   Why are you so reluctant to admit that you jumped to conclusions?

And again, this "If Ron chooses to correct me" horseshit doesn't wash.  Either you parsed his statement right, in which case I owe you an apology, or you did not, in which case you owe him an apology.

Zak SmithYesterday 4:38 PM

+Justice Platt How, pray tell, do we know if I correctly interpreted Ron's statement, psychopath?

Justice PlattYesterday 4:56 PM

+Zak Smith, either the author agrees with your interpretation or there is no plausible alternate interpretation.  Pretty simple.  Neither is the case here.  You can answer my questions whenever you like.

Does you calling me a psychopath mean I'm officially on some list of trolls or RPG drama club members or whatever?  Can I have a membership card?

Zak SmithYesterday 5:03 PM

+Justice Platt "either the author agrees with your interpretation or there is no plausible alternate interpretation" YES. That's why we have to wait for Ron to get past addressing: -1. The minor moral crime of responding to a work of art by an artist who'd done nothing wrong with a snarky attack and -2. The major moral crime of accusing me of being a bully and then move on to -3. The minor and arguable possible crime of ignorance or incompetence of attempting to express a possibly-believed inaccurate view of Mr Bisley's working process ....before we can answer the question of just what interior mental space Ron's absolutely totally objectively shitty comment was meant to reflect. When and if he finally gets around to clarifying that, I'll address it. As for you: you are simply obviously a psychopath for being so worried about 3 after all the 1 and 2 going on and doing so with so much pointless swearing. It would be remiss if I didn't point it out, for the benefit of anyone who hadn't noticed and might considering collaborating with you on any projects or discussing anything with you.

Justice PlattYesterday 5:53 PM

+Zak Smith , how on earth can a comment that you admit you don't know the meaning of be "absolutely totally objectively shitty?"  And before you go to the "it was snarky" well, remember that my alternate interpretation turns the comment from "Hurr hurr Bisley can't draw" to "Bisley would have done well to exercise more figure drawing skills."  You appear to have admitted that my interpretation is at least plausible, so you;ll be wanting to make an actual argument about why that's "objectively shitty." Otherwise,  all you're really doing is tone policing RE, since, agree or disagree, that's a reasonably productive thing to say.

Also, we have both essentially been ignoring RE's 10:38 AM comment, in which he both specifically points out that he did not explicitly say that Bisley cannot draw, points out that you made assumptions (one of which I pointed out above as an insulting assumption) to get to that interpretation, and states that he generally likes Mr. Bisley's work.  All of this makes my interpretation substantially more plausible.

As to my concern with 3-I was under the impression that you agreed with me that smaller falsehoods in the service of "larger truths" was a bad thing.

Unnecessary swearing?  Never thought I'd see the day when you'd blanch at bad words explicitly directed at your ideas, but times do change.

Last, on the psychopath thing,  I look forward to seeing your compendium of "dumb things Justice has said."  Maybe you'll find some stuff I don't remember or whatever.  Little trip down Memory Lane.  I am disappointed by no membership card.

I don't, however, expect to see it soon.  Unlike RE, I have no real reputation in RPGs to lose, and my name, to the best of my knowledge, has never been mentioned in a thread I am not in.  That's not the case for RE. Agree or disagree with him, like his stuff or don't, he's been working very hard to write good games and think clearly about RPGs for quite a while.  This is a good & worthy thing.  Allowing distortions of his remarks to stand just gives him more nonsense to contend with, especially at the hands of the individual I referred to earlier, who clearly values your opinion, covets your influence, and craves your approval.

Zak SmithYesterday 5:56 PM

+Justice Platt "my alternate interpretation turns the comment from "Hurr hurr Bisley can't draw" to "Bisley would have done well to exercise more figure drawing skills."" Your translation inaccurately removes the snark, which is there regardless of whether you want to acknowledge it or not. And is still opinion expressed as if it were fact or advice expressed to someone who clearly chose otherwise, which is also inexcusable and does not lead to a good discussion. The helpful or informative form of the remark would be something like "I wish he showed off more of his figure drawing skill here". Most of your comments are unnecessary, you just need to wait for Ron to respond rather thant repeatedly trying to find new interpretations of his objectively dumb remark " Agree or disagree with him, like his stuff or don't, he's been working very hard..." Calling me a bully torpedoes any and all good intentions on his part and means his alleged accomplishments don't matter. He ceases to be a reliable voice immediately at that point and becomes a chew toy for the rest of his life unless he manages to apologize and there can be no real defense of him. Even if my interpretation of his remark in my first response was inaccurate, nothing licenses him to say that--it is evil.

Justice PlattYesterday 6:13 PM+1 2 1

+Zak Smith , you can do better than that.  One man's hateful snark is another's witty tone.  I found your initial response nastily condescending, but that's not an argument against you. It's just straightforward tone policing either way.

And, as far as opinion expressed as fact goes, come on.  Just silly.  



Zak SmithYesterday 6:21 PM

+Justice Platt "Witty snark" or "hateful snark" are still just snark at the artist, which makes you not A Respectable Helpful Voice In The RPG Scene it makes you The Comments. And the way you build a decent RPG community is not be ok with people acting like The Comments. The Tone was snark (not ok to make a negative comment without facts to back it up). The Content was implying inaccurate facts (likewise not ok). "Tone policing" is when you make an accurate criticism and get attacked for your tone. Ron made either: -an inaccurate criticism (which is wrong, regardless of tone) or -an opinion-as-fact criticism (which is wrong, regardless of tone) The internet SO doesn't need more opinion-as-fact or baseless snark.

Justice PlattYesterday 7:44 PM

+Zak Smith , my alternate interpretation, whether or not it is particularly incisive, is substantive.  Which, frankly, is the better standard-"accurate" kinda sucks, since how could we possibly ' whether or not a counterfactual criticism, like my reinterpretation, is accurate?  Do we have access to all the pictures Bisley could have drawn?

The opinion as fact thing is still silly.  Work harder.

I agree about elevating the tone of internet discussion to at least some degree.But notice, you've gone from a duty to correct any & all errors of fact to a duty to elevate the the tone, as judged & enforced by you.  

Which, given your earlier name-calling and ridiculous blue-stockingness about swearing, allows me only to say "Be the change," y'know?

Zak SmithYesterday 7:59 PM+1 2 1

+Justice Platt "The opinion as fact thing is still silly.  Work harder." This alone makes you wrong. The rest is icing after that. If you think the internet needs more "Kirk is just better than Picard" then you're not a person anybody else need to listen to. As for "being the change" you don't stop someone from robbing banks by quietly not robbing banks. You have to call out bad behavior or it will continue, as the entire RPG internet proves every day.

Justice PlattYesterday 8:03 PM

+Zak Smith , would repeatedly, unambiguously asserting that your somewhat implausible interpretation of someone's statement was absolutely true count as OAF?

Zak SmithYesterday 8:09 PM

+Justice Platt Only if they contest it. If I think a house is on fire that isn't because of taste it's because of what i thought was a true fact about the world (which is all any of us can do: draw conclusions from sensory data). A grown-up like Ron needs to know the difference between taste and fact right off, but everyone can take the facts in front of them and make an incorrect inference--there's no shame in that so long as it is investigated if it was insulting to the target. Since Ron's comment was a bad thing to say because represents all bad options: -"Bisley lacks technical facility (incorrect) -"Bisley doesn't lack tech facility but it's good to express personal distaste by pretending it does" (counterproductive and trolling) -"Bisley made a choice I don't like and I'm going to both obscure that it's a choice and obscure that it;s just a taste thing" (counterproductive and trolling) -"I'm gonna snark for mystery reasons" (counterproductive and trolling) ...my inference was not particularly insulting since all the options make Ron's statement bad

Tony DemetriouYesterday 8:19 PM

I also interpreted Ron's comment as implying Bisley can't draw figures well.

I can absolutely see how the comment could have been intended to imply that Bisley can draw figures well, and chose not to in this picture - but even so it was clearly snarky. By saying "try some figure drawing", in either interpretation, it's saying that he didn't do figure drawing in this image.

To me, the implication that he didn't do figure drawing in this image is objectively wrong - there are two figures in the picture with (although stylized) relatively realistic proportions, musculature, etc. - there is clearly figure drawing there, whether it's good or bad.

So, using your football metaphor, it'd be more akin to Rodgers regularly passing the ball, but failing to do it to your satisfaction. And then you make the comment about "Yeesh, Rodgers, you get the big bucks, try some passing"

So clearly snarky.

(But it doesn't bother me if Ron is snarky or not. Bisley isn't here on this thread, and isn't having his feelings hurt, so we don't need to defend him unless we believe that some tangible harm will come to him or others from this snark.)

I'm not convinced that Ron's comment was shitty or bad - but it was inaccurate, and I don't have a problem with someone disagreeing with a comment they believe to be inaccurate.

I was quite surprised by Ron's response - although Zak's comment can be read as condascending, the reply was more vitriolic than I expected. Especially as I've seen Ron handle other, more direct attacks, with grace. I'm assuming that is due to their history, rather than this thread itself. As such, hanging this disagreement on Ron's originating comment feels like everyone is talking around the actual issue*.

* Whatever that actual issue might be.

+Zak Smith - Although I recognize that you were using the word in a non-medical sense, if we're being technically correct, +Justice Platt is only a psychopath if he scores above 30 on the PCL-R checklist. http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

I dunno if he's likely to show up as a psychopath, as one of the primary traits is a lack of empathy, and Justice seems to be showing a lot of empathy towards Ron. (Although a psychopath might attempt to simulate that empathy as an excuse to exert their dominance in a conversation.)

Tony DemetriouYesterday 8:22 PM+1 2 1

+Zak Smith As a matter of taste, I don't know if this house is on fire, but it certainly is flaming

http://www.cynical-c.com/2015/06/19/relentlessly-gay-yard/

Zak SmithYesterday 8:25 PM

+Tony Demetriou the fact that Bisley isn't present is not the issue. Nor are his feelings. The point is a snarky negative comment does 3 things: -makes the conversation worse (because it is vague but contestable) and -(in this case) implies incorrect information. and -Violates the golden rule You don't avoid snark to spare peoples' feelings (surely thousands of people have snarked at Bisley before--he is an artist, this is a consequence of making art, it would be bad to let it affect your feelings), you avoid it because it makes the resulting conversation worse or (at best) does nothing but take up space. And, further, everyone must be subjected to the same standard whether they are present or not because they could easily see the comment in the future, and--MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY--uninformed 3rd parties, new to the situation might see it in the future.

Tony DemetriouYesterday 8:29 PM

+Zak Smith Out of context, I have zero problem with snark. I've got a friend that communicates almost entirely via sarcasm. I'm also Australian, where we'll use insults as everyday conversation tools. To me, this doesn't muddy the conversation.

In context, if snark is used as an attack, then I've got a problem with it. If it's used to express an opinion, but not specifically as an attack, then I don't. In this particular case, I couldn't say which is true.

I do think whether Ron believes Bisley is going to see his comment makes a difference on my interpretation of whether it was an attack or not.

If you feel that snark makes the conversation worse, regardless of whether it's an attack or not, then it doesn't matter whether Bisley is present or not.

I absolutely agree with you that Ron's comment implies incorrect information, and that incorrect information is bad (which is why I also disagreed with it.)

Justice Platt12:25 AM

+Zak Smith , RE did contest your interpretation.  I've pointed this out a few times. So yeah, OAF, by the standard you explicitly set out.  Really makes the rest of your post moot.  Snark always and everywhere bad might be defensible, but it is not the argument you were making in your posts to RE.

What I do want to address is your take on my opinion of OAF.  You immediately ascribed to me a complete straw man-that I want the internet to have more "Kirk is objectively better than Picard."  You had no warrant for saying so, and before you say that I should have clarified, does that justify the insulting  ascription of the most ridiculous position I could possibly hold?

It's of a piece with your professing to find four uses of a rather mild expletive "pointless swearing" and offering that as a reason people should avoid me.  In both cases, I cannot imagine that you did not recognize what you were doing and go on to do it anyway.  You are vigilant for strawmanning where you are concerned, and your body of work (to put it mildly) shows little concern about cussing.

These are the kinds of things that concern me in argument.  Your sanctimony about snark and OAF is sadly misplaced and rather grotesque when it occurs almost literally in the same breath with these other tactics.  You admit that snark can be harmless, OAF is pretty well understood as a statement of opinion by the vast majority of English speakers.  Faux outrage and strawmanning are always harmful.  So, yeah, be the change.

Zak Smith12:58 AM

+Justice Platt You ignored this: " If I think a house is on fire that isn't because of taste it's because of what i thought was a true fact about the world (which is all any of us can do: draw conclusions from sensory data). " You also ignored the fact that while Ron has repeatedly said pieces of what he thinks Ron has NEVER claimed his original snarky comment could not imply to a good-faith, educated reader that Ron thought Bisley lacked technical skill Until he: - does so, - does so convincingly and -then I deny him and can give no counterevidence ...then I am plausibly in the realm of fact. Right now I have an interpretation of his words "He implied Bisley lacked technical ability, despite possibly not meaning it" and my responsibilities "Therefore someone needed to establish this was not a true thing to imply". Nothing that has happened has changed any of that, and none of that is me taking something I know to be an opinion and claiming it's fact. So far as I can tell (and this is a guess),, from what he's saying, Ron agrees with this: "Ron implied Bisley lacked technical ability, despite possibly not meaning it" and his take is "Who the fuck cares? I get to just say random shit on the internet because who cares if anyone believes it? The important thing is nobody should ever clean up after the mess I make." As for the rest: OAF always leads to "Kirk is better than Picard" arguments, so you are totally defending that practice. On swearing: you're doing it against a target that's done nothing wrong in defense of a target that objectively has (he said I "bullied" which is objectively incorrect), that's the disturbing bit. ' OAF is pretty well understood as a statement of opinion by the vast majority of English speakers.' Incorrect: the whole reason for edition wars and other shitty internet phenomena is that nobody clearly draws lines between what's fact and what's opinion. Like it's a fact that people I know grasp percentile systems easily. But if I go "percentile systems are easy to grasp" then we don't know whether I mean that fact I just reported or whether I am just saying they are having done no research. Same with 90% of RPG arguments, treating claims you've researched the same as info you haven't ("This is "unworkable" "--well is it literally unworkable as in the math can't ever work because of a literal error or is it just you don't like it? "You can't satisfy both this and that at once!" Well are you sayng you tested it or are you saying you guess that?  "This drives most women away?" Well are you saying you checked or you're just guessing because you don't like it?) leads to nearly all the pointless fighting on the internet about games. So, just because you aren't smart enough to see why doing bad things causes problems doesn't mean they don't cause problems. Also, because you're not smart enough to see the reasons I call out bad behavior while at the same time engaging in behavior you think is the same, doesn't mean it's the same.

Justice Platt2:03 AM

+Zak Smith , you wanna get some sleep?  Rethink that post?  It's pretty feeble,

Zak Smith2:12 AM+1 2 1

+Justice Platt Again, the fact that you even posted that, resorting to just straight trolling and attempting to sort of wish away clear objections to your mistaken argument, suggests further that you have no value as a person to talk to. If you have an argument: make it. If you don't: apologize for wasting everyone's time.

Justice Platt3:06 AM+1 2 1

+Zak Smith OK. In order then:

I have no idea what you're talking about with the house on fire thing.  Hence ignoring it.

You're shifting goalposts again.  The idea that RE clarifying his position requires proof to the good faith etc etc is ludicrous.  It's also an entirely new standard.  My position has been consistently that your repeated, unambiguous statements that RE asserted (Not "implied"-another goalpost shift,.  "Asserted" is your multiple repeated original word choice) Bisley had no skill were not warranted, given that you don't know what RE means, and plausible alternate explanations exist.  "Plausibly in the realm of fact" is a ridiculous standard for big bold text this is true statements.  It is "plausibly in the realm of fact" that you're going to the bank tomorrow morning, but I'm still not going to claim that you definitely are, especially if you say you aren't..

You again change the claim you make-your original straw-manning is that I want more KP arguments, not that I'm ok with them.  

You,  a grown-up with some experience of the world, find it "disturbing" that someone called your argument "bullshit" in a cause you think bad?  What exactly does "disturbing" mean here, anyway?  Ooh-a vague insinuation!

Last, I can summarize your claims about OAF as: 1)Leads to unclear/confusing claims that sometimes require requesting warrants.  2)Abolition of this form of statement abolishes, or at least greatly diminishes, 1.    1 is not unique to OAF statements, and it is frankly risible to imagine that unclear claims and/or the need for warrant clarification stop or greatly diminish with their elimination.  So, minimal harms and inadequate solvency.  I'm not saying the practice is laudable, but c'mon.

Zak Smith3:26 AM

+Justice Platt 1. "I have no idea what you're talking about with the house on fire thing.  " Then the decent thing to do is ask not continue to be a tremendous shithead. I will explain: A grown-up person reporting on their taste knows they're reporting a mere opinion. If they dress it up as fact, they're pulling a rhetorical maneuver. Intent to deceive or bluster past rational objections. A person who thinks a house is on fire (they see the smoke, etc) and reports that it is and turns out to be wrong, has simply made a mistake no intent to deceive there. They inaccurately reported a fact which we all do innocently from time to time because we rely on our senses. My remarks in response to Ron have been of the second kind at worst--I believe Ron's remarks to be asserting (perhaps against Ron's real beliefs, because they are jokes) a certain thing that people may believe. Just as a joke may assert that a chicken crosses the road even if the person telling the joke doesn't believe that any chickens ever cross rods. 2. "You're shifting goalposts again. " Incorrect, I never shift goalposts, that would be disgusting, and it's disgusting you'd say that. My initial comment was based on and continues to be based on (and justified by) this idea: " (a) Ron's initial comment was such that a naive viewer might believe that Ron was expressing the following idea: "Bisley lacks technical skill" WHETHER RON BELIEVES BISLEY LACKS SUCH SKILL OR NOT. (b) It is therefore the responsibility of someone to explain to such a naive viewer that Bisley does indeed have technical skill " ...this has been my contention since the beginning. We know that Bisley does not lack technical skill. If he asserted Bisley lacked technical skill despite not believing it, he is evil and negligent. If he asserted it and believed it, he is ignorant and subsequently got mad about that being exposed. Neither of these conclusions is good for Ron therefore assuming one rather than the other does nothing to harm Ron's reputation more than the other choice. But there is no evidence anywhere that he did not assert this . You don't tell someone to try figure drawing if they're trying figure drawing. (a) Is not an opinion . It is an assertion of fact, so far as I know. If Ron wishes to contest the idea that his snarky remark may be read in such a way by a third party. I am (because I am sane) willing to consider the idea that my analysis is an inaccurate statement of the facts, but thus far there is zero evidence of this. Ron's defense and yours has simply been to talk about what Ron believes not what was implied to readers by the remark  (the only relevant thing). - As for the rest: you equivocate "not all harm is caused by x" (true statement) into "therefore there is no reason to eliminate x" (not a rational conclusion. OAFs cause: -some harm and provide -zero benefit ...so there is no good argument for them. Like bedbugs.

Victor Garrison (headspice)4:03 AM+2 3 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrCPIrs90eg

Ron Edwards3:32 PM

Looks like people were busy.

+Justice Platt thanks for the input.

+Zak Smith as I've stated before, there is no connection between my initial statement and a statement that Bisley cannot draw figures. Demanding that I repeat it was unnecessary, and as this is the second time, please don't demand it again.

You also demand that this statement be assessed or discussed in terms of its impact on readers. This is not the first time you have elected yourself the Voice of the Readers - I believe we agreed that you weren't going to do that to me again.

This is the day, unfortunately, when I have decided you're not going to explain why you single-message people to criticize their plussing choices, and why you often reply to others' stated views or takes on works of art in a chilling fashion yet post very similar statements about work you don't like. These are bullying acts. Why, in the complete absence of discernible need, do you do them?

My last statement before signing off. Willing or not, knowing or not, you have cultivated an environment of fear in this subculture. You can call this crazy and talk about more and more colorful metaphors all you want. Or you can try to assess this claim in any way you want that's not your gut, and see what you see then.

Signed off now, finished with the thread.

Zak Smith3:45 PM

+Ron Edwards 1. " as I've stated before, there is no connection between my initial statement and a statement that Bisley cannot draw figures. " Then what was it meant to communicate and why should we care? What's important is what it could logically be interpreted to mean literally by third parties 2. " You also demand that this statement be assessed or discussed in terms of its impact on readers. This is not the first time you have elected yourself the Voice of the Readers - I believe we agreed that you weren't going to do that to me again. " Citation needed. Why would I ever agree that the _most important thing about a public distortion of fact not be discussed? That would be like me agreeing to let you kick readers in the balls. 3. " This is the day, unfortunately, when I have decided you're not going to explain why you single-message people to criticize their plussing choices, " I do not message people to criticize them I message them to see if they are insane or not. If they are insane, it is important to block them from my circles. You haven't even explained how that's bad . It's Good Citizenship 101 to privately contact people you have conflict with so that you don't rake each other over the coals publicly unnecessarily. You are just grabbing random acts out of the air and affixing the word "bullying" to them out of what appears to be sheer insanity. How is sending someone a message in any way a harmful act? 4. " and why you often reply to others' stated views or takes on works of art in a chilling fashion yet post very similar statements about work you don't like. " Citation Needed. Since you aren't that smart and apparently can't read very well I suspect your definition of "very similar" is the problem here. 5. " These are bullying acts. " Incorrect: a bullying act would be: -negative and -something I can do that the target cannot or refuses on moral grounds to do. ...you haven't cited any such acts. You've only cited awesome good things I did.

6. " Willing or not, knowing or not, you have cultivated an environment of fear in this subculture. " If you're trying to say "Oh no, back in my day, indie game designers used to feel totally cool about posting false allegations and now they're afraid they'll be asked for evidence" or "I can't falsely accuse someone of bullying, then run away with no calls for accountability any more" well cry me a fucking river. I don't know any good person doing good work who claims to be afraid of jack shit--in fact people seem markedly less afraid than they were a year ago when you could be publicly accused of everything from hate crimes to cattle rustling and the Oh-I-Know-That-Guy network would back the accuser up because they both had the same grudge against the same dumb game. You can allege I've had an impact--but if you do so, then you have to weigh that against the fact that the DIY RPG scene is fucking kicking ass these days, in ways it hasn't for 30 years. I am totally proud of calling out shit people for their shit behavior--it's worked and we've made things better.

Zak Smith4:28 PM

I didn't come into this assuming Ron was insane, but now, I guess, we all know he actually is.

[ifwearestrangers]

All the numbers xo

I kind of hate you but y’all obviously don’t know me if you think I won’t answer them all I LIKE CHALLENGES. 

1) Put your iTunes on shuffle. Give me the first 6 songs that pop up - Save Me - Gotye / Smooth Criminal - Glee Cast (no comment) / Undone - Phoria / West Coast - Lana Del Rey / Six Feet Under - Louis Aguilar

2) If you could meet anyone on this earth, who would it be? Ellen Degeneres

3) Grab the book nearest to you, turn to page 23, give me line 17. “Yeah,” he said. The light turned green green. I braced myself. Augustus slammed the gas. 

4) What do you think about most? How much of a failure I am :) and Clexa of course.

5) Ever had a poem or song written about you? Maybe? probably. 

6) Do you have any strange phobias? Spiders, heights, and opression, like being underwater or unable to breathe? 

7) What’s your religion? Gayness.

8) If you are outside, what are you most likely doing? Being with friends, 

9) Simple but extremely complex. Favorite band? Florence and the Machine, The Cure, Ben Howard, Tegan and Sara, The Killers, Coldplay. 

10) What was the last lie you told? I told my best friend’s girlfriend I didn’t know what was in his head when I know exactly what’s in his head. 

11) Do you believe in karma? I sure do. 

12) What does your URL mean? It means that we’re all strangers here but we ought not to be, which is what brought us all together i guess.

13) What is your greatest weakness; your greatest strength? weakness, I’d say my low-self esteem, strength, I’d say my kindness. 

14) Who is your celebrity crush? At the moment.. jeez I don’t know! How sad! I’d say Dianna Agron though because I’m always crushing on her. 

15) How do you vent your anger? Talking people’s ears off in general. 

16) Do you have a collection of anything? Playing cards, books, funko pops, tattoos, prints and drawings.

17) Are you happy with the person you’ve become? Not quite yet but I’m getting there, and isn’t being human always striving for improvement? 

18) What’s a sound you hate; sound you love? I hate the crissing of chalk on a chalboard, ya know? And I love the sound of the rain and really really loud thunder. 

19) What’s your biggest “what if”? What if I had made it work, what if I saw her, what if we were still together? What if I was enough.. 

20) Do you believe in ghosts? How about aliens? Yes I do believe in people’s soul being stuck between two reincarnations, and aliens? FOR SURE. 

21) Stick your right arm out; what do you touch first? Do the same with your left arm. Right : nothing. Left: my heater. 

22) Smell the air. What do you smell? Pastas because it’s almost diner time! 

23) What’s the worst place you have ever been to? Hm.. toughie. I honestly can’t remember right now. 

24) Most attractive singer/s of your opposite gender? Of the opposite gender.. I’d say Chris Martin? But because that’s the only one I can think about right now lmao.

25) To you, what is the meaning of life? Wow, I ain’t got time to lay out my opinion on that, I’ve got too much too say. Long story short, living. Life in itself is insignificant but it’s also the only thing we’ve got so make it count. 

26) Do you drive? If so, have you ever crashed? I do not, but I did crash. My sister was driving and it was the worst memory I have. 

27) What was the last movie you saw? Hm Thor I think? With my sister. 

28) What’s the worst injury you’ve ever had? I have a ernia in my neck from the car crash and honestly? It’s the worst. Chronic pain each time I paint or stand for too long. Absolute delight. 

29) Do you have any obsessions right now? Clexa, my life, my future, faberry, writing music, writing clexa, drawing clexa, painting, my career. 

30) Ever had a rumor spread about you? Yes, in middle school there was this whole rumor around school that I was gay… SPOILER ALERT. 

31) Do you tend to hold grudges against people who have done you wrong? No, I am an easy forgiver but also because I strive for affection and also because I just cannot stand to be in a fight with someone even if I’m right. I have hold a grudge once in my life against my best friend because she was against same sex marriage in my country but fortunately she came around and voted yes. 

32) What is your astrological sign? Scorpio, passion all around. 

33) What’s the last thing you purchased? A bracelet for my sister’s christmas gift. 

34) Love or lust? Both? Please? They go together. 

35) In a relationship? Painfully not. 

36) How many relationships have you had? Hm.. Serious ones 3. 

37) What is your secret weapon to get someone to like you? My firting and my cuteness that I will deny until my dying day. 

38) Where is your best friend? I have severa best friends, and they’re all around the world. Unlucky me. 

39) What were you doing last night at 12 AM? Working on that next clexa thing I’m making and let me tell you guys it’s awesome already. 

40) Are you the kind of friend you would want to have as a friend? Probably because I try to be the best of friends to people even if I’m far from perfect, but I’m always trying to be better. 

41) You are walking down the street on your way to work. There is a dog drowning in the canal on the side of the street. Your boss has told you if you are late one more time you get fired. What do you do? I SAVE THE FUCKING DOG WHAT THE FUCKING KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT SCREW THE JOB. 

42) You are at the doctor’s office and she has just informed you that you have approximately one month to live. a) Do you tell anyone/everyone you are going to die? b) What do you do with your remaining days? c) Would you be afraid? seriously though I HAVE ANXIETY PEOPLE DON’T DO THAT. but anyway, as an anxiety full person I’ve thought about this before lmao. a) I’d probably wouldn’t tell them until the very last moment because I know they would act different. b) I would make sure every one of the people I love get what they need, that they’re happy so I can go peacefully. Also I’d sneak in a trip to brazil to tell her goodbye, see my best friend before I go. c) Of course I’d be afraid that I wouldn’t have enough time to make sure everyone’s safe and happy, to say goodbye properly. Afraid I haven’t made the most of it. 

43) What’s a song that always makes you happy when you hear it? hm.. Just Like Heaven - The Cure. 

44) In your opinion, what makes a great relationship? Trust and communication. (good sex too but ya know, thats just a bonus) 

45) How can I win your heart? Show me any kind of attention and affection I guess? Also my weakness are powerful girls who challenge me, provoke me and flirt hardcore, play hard to get. (But not that hard you get me?) 

46) Can insanity bring on more creativity? I think yes but there’s a very difficult balance to find between the two. 

47) What is the single best decision you have made in your life so far? A year ago I would have told you without the shadow of a doubt that it was falling in love with a brazilian girl and crossing the world to be with her but looking back maybe it wasn’t. Then again, I would do it all over again. 

48) What would you want to be written on your tombstone? “Beloved sister, devoted friend, she saved the world a lot.”

49) Give me the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the word “heart.” Right now, broken but also hopeful. 

50) Basic question; what’s your favorite color/colors? That kind of cerrulean blue that’s almost green, a little teal but not quite there yet. A soft, gentle cerrulean blue. 

51) What is your current desktop picture? A drawing fll of colors of a forest with wolves. 

52) If you could press a button and make anyone in the world instantaneously explode, who would it be? Donald Trump :) 

53) What would be a question you’d be afraid to tell the truth on? Am I worth it?

54) You accidentally eat some radioactive vegetables. They were good, and what’s even cooler is that they endow you with the super-power of your choice! What is that power? Flying. 

55) You can re-live any point of time in your life. The time-span can only be a half-hour, though. What half-hour of your past would you like to experience again? When I was up that hill in Brazil. Everything was uncertain but I was spent and on top of the world and for a minute there, I thought I could change it all. 

56) You can erase any horrible experience from your past. What will it be? The break-up. The depression that followed. The void in my chest ever since. That feeling of nothingness, of incomplete. Unfinished. The feeling that we are unfinished. 

57) You have the opportunity to sleep with the music-celebrity of your choice. Who would it be? MUSIC ONLY? DAMN. Hayley Kiyoko, then. 

58) You just got a free plane ticket to anywhere. You have to depart right now. Where are you gonna go? New York. 

59) Ever been on a plane? Yes and I love it. Also I’ve been on a plane at night, next to the window, and I saw the milkyway, and that was the most beautiful thing ever. I was seeing the sky underneath me and that’s a feeling I’ll never forget. 

60) Give me your top 5 hottest celebrities. Dianna Agron, Mila Kunis, Gal Gadot, Marie Avgeropoulos, Ruby Rose. 

[crystalsoul16]

Answer all the questions, mwahaha >u

Get to Know Me

Oh geez

okay, challenge accepted, let’s do this!!

I’m putting this under a cut for length tho lol

1. What is you middle name?My middle name is Ryan c:

2. How old are you?I am 24, but definitely don’t feel like I am >->

3. When is your birthday?July 11th! Best way to remember is that it’s also free slurpee day at 7-Eleven lol

4. What is your zodiac sign?Cancer

5. What is your favorite color?various shades of blues and greens. Hard to pick just one ^^;

6. What’s your lucky number?16~

7. Do you have any pets?I have three dogs (two beagles at my mom’s, one undetermined breed (assumed belgian malinois?) at my dad’s), and three birds

8. Where are you from?I live in the state of Virginia, USA

9. How tall are you?5′2″, making me the shortest person in my family T^T

10. What shoe size are you?Depends on the brand, since I have 6 ½ boots that fit just fine, but also have a pair that’s a size 9. So it’s kinda hard to say ^^;;;

11. How many pairs of shoes do you own?I have 8 pairs of shoes, but really only wear one ^^; I got a new pair of shoes for Christmas that I want to use tho!

12. What was your last dream about?…..crap, I don’t remember

13. What talents do you have?I feel like my drawing skills are pretty good, and one of my instructors at school told me I’m good at video editing. I really wanna play with that skillset more and get back into making AMVs one day, and of course continue improving my art skills

14. Are you psychic in any way?If I am, I’m not aware -shrugs-

15. Favorite song?oh gosh, I have so many it’s hard to pick one… At this current moment in time though, the one that is standing out in my mind is Strike Back by BACK-ON, which is the 16th opening for Fairy Tail

16. Favorite movie?Again it’s hard to pick one, but Brother Bear is jumping at me, so I’ll go with that for now lol

17. Who would be your ideal partner?Okay, um… Well, they definitely need to like animals, cuz I do not trust people who don’t like or respect animals. They also need to like video games. Considering I spend a lot of my time playing them, and really hope to one day be involved in video game production and/or design, I feel like my partner should also have an appreciation for video games. Plus ideal casual date is cuddling on the couch and playing games together, so a shared love of gaming kinda feels like a must ^^; Plus with online games we can still hang out even if we’re not together so yeah. Video games. Also liking anime would be great, since I love watching anime and going to cons and cosplaying (oh shit couple cosplaying tho yes plz~!!) so sharing an interest there would be great! Plus then if we’re not in the mood to game, we can just cuddle and watch anime. Also having a genuine kind and caring soul is a must. Those are probably the most important points, but I guess it’d be nice if they’re also in touch with their youthful side. I can be a wee bit childish at times myself, so I just wanna make sure I ain’t gonna be judged if I decide I want to eat dinosaur-shaped chicken nuggets or cuddle with a plushie lolol Also, not a requirement, but willing to do stuff in the kitchen together would be nice~ And not judging me for watching cooking competition shows every so often would also be nice >->

……..or honestly, just be Yoosung >->;;;;;;;;;;; cuz it’s honestly startling to me how fuckin’ close that guy is to an ideal for me. And by close, I mean he is -hides face in hands- but of course, he’s fictional. So once again, fictional characters setting the bar high… -facepalms and sighs heavily-

18. Do you want children?At this current point in time, no. I’m still too much of a child in my own eyes to consider being a parent to anything that isn’t covered in fur or feathers. Maybe someday in the future, I will. 

19. Do you want a church wedding?Not sure, honestly. It would also depend on what my partner wants. All I know is that a fantasy theme would be rad!!

20. Are you religious?Not entirely. I mean, I do believe that there is some sort of higher power, but I don’t really do much beyond that. I know there’s a term for it, but I can’t remember what it is right now

21. Have you ever been to the hospital?Once, when I was little. I think I was five? I think I blacked out though so I don’t remember much about it. Otherwise, I’ve only been to visit someone or sit in the waiting room while waiting for someone who was admitted.

22. Have you ever got in trouble with the law?Not yet, and I hope to keep it that way!!!

23. Have you ever met any celebrities?Do anime voice actors count? Cuz I’ve met a few at cons before, but I’m not sure if those count ^^;;;

24. Baths or showers?Personally I prefer showers

25. What color socks are you wearing?White

26. Have you ever been famous?Nope, and I’m totally fine with that. Too much attention makes me nervous lol

27. Would you like to be a big celebrity?As said before, I’m good without that sort of attention.

28. What type of music do you like?I tend to listen to rock music a lot, but I’m open to listening a lot of stuff. Especially video game OSTs and Fantasy/Celtic stuff!

29. Have you ever been skinny dipping?No I haven’t, and I think I’m too shy and don’t like my body enough to ever be comfy doing that ^^;;;;;;;

30. How many pillows do you sleep with?Three

31. What position do you usually sleep in?I’m usually on my side or stomach, and I’m pretty much always hugging a pillow or plushie when I fall asleep

32. How big is your house?Well, my mom’s house is bigger than my dad’s. That said, neither are very large really… My mom and I keep saying how we wish this house had more closet and storage space… And at my dad’s, my room isn’t even attached to the house lol. My brother took my old room, so I now have the small mini-house thing right next to the pool. It’s got a bathroom, a counter for a microwave by the door, and a small bedroom. I like the privacy it has though!

33. What do you typically have for breakfast?Sadly, I often skip breakfast because I rarely wake up before noon lol. When I do have breakfast though, it’s either a bowl of cereal or a bagel with cream cheese

34. Have you ever fired a gun?No I have not

35. Have you ever tried archery?No, but I want to so baaaaaaaaaaaad~!!

36. Favorite clean word?solely because of my bro saying it in a ridiculous voice, biscuit

37. Favorite swear word?Fuck, because it’s the one I use the most lol

38. What’s the longest you’ve ever gone without sleep?Over 48 hours. I had three final projects due, two of which I had to paint, so I stated up two days straight to finish them, and didn’t even fall asleep before going to school. That said, I don’t remember how late I stayed up including class, but due to class time, it was probably another five or seven hours… And it was misery. 0/10, would never recommend

39. Do you have any scars?I do have a small one next to my left eye from when I got bit by a dog when I was five, which was the cause of the hospital visit mentioned a while back

40. Have you ever had a secret admirer?umm……not that I recall, no

41. Are you a good liar?It depends. Sometimes I can be, but sometimes it’s easy to catch me. That said, I don’t like doing it

42. Are you a good judge of character?Not sure, honestly -shrugs- I like to assume I am, tho

43. Can you do any other accents other than your own?I can try, but they probably sound horrible XD

44. Do you have a strong accent?I was once told that I had a southern accent, but I’m not exactly sure. Sometimes I may slip into an exaggerated one, tho

45. What is your favorite accent?I’m a fan of a lot of accents, but I’ve always had a weakness for Australian! Probably because I grew up watching Steve Irwin all the time so I developed an early fondness for it lol

46. What is your personality type?INFP

47. What is your most expensive piece of clothing?I’m not sure, to be honest. I tend to be satisfied with “cheap” clothes, like at walmart or somethin’, so I’m not sure…. If I had to guess…it’s probably my Organization XIII coat

48. Can you curl your tongue?yurp

49. Are you an innie or an outie?Innie

50. Left or right handed?Rightie

51. Are you scared of spiders?Hell yes >~unless they’re spiders in pokemon, which always tend to be my favorite bug types for some reason lolol

52. Favorite food?shit, I dunno, I like a lot of foods….. I’ll just say pasta and be general about it lol

53. Favorite foreign food?dude I fuckin’ love me some mochi~

54. Are you a clean or messy person?Very clean when it comes to organizing files. Very messy otherwise

55. Most used phrased?Lately for some reason I’ve been saying “Oh dear” a lot and I have no idea why XD

56. Most used word?probably fuck

57. How long does it take for you to get ready?On average, to get ready in the morning takes me about half an hour, and most of that time is spent waking up =_=

58. Do you have much of an ego?I have no ego whatsoever. I could honestly use more of one, even just a small one to give myself at least a little confidence lol

59. Do you suck or bite lollipops?I try to just suck, but I tend to bite :/

60. Do you talk to yourself?always

61. Do you sing to yourself?sometimes, if no one is around to hear me >->

62. Are you a good singer?not at all lol

63. Biggest Fear?honestly, being disliked. I know I shouldn’t worry about what people think of me, but I do worry about people close to me finding me annoying or coming to dislike me for some reason.

64. Are you a gossip?nope

65. Best dramatic movie you’ve seen?Either Gran Torino or Forrest Gump

66. Do you like long or short hair?On myself? I used to always keep my hair very long, and just recently decided to try shorter hair. And I actually really like it on myself! In general though, I’m good with anything~ You do you~

67. Can you name all 50 states of America?yup. I don’t feel like listing them all, if that’s what you’re asking, but I do know that one song that lists them in alphabetical order, so yup

68. Favorite school subject?hmmm…. In school, I tended to like math best, since I was pretty good at it

69. Extrovert or Introvert?I am without a doubt an Introvert

70. Have you ever been scuba diving?nope

71. What makes you nervous?everything. My anxiety has me in a nearly constant state of nervousness lol But especially being in social situations that involve talking to strangers!!

72. Are you scared of the dark?hmmm….. I mean, I can sleep in the dark if needed, but I prefer having some sort of background noise, usually a TV

73. Do you correct people when they make mistakes?Depends on the mistake. If it’s a typo, then no. If it’s a pokemon type advantage or something like that, hell yes.

74. Are you ticklish?uhhhh;;;;;;;; yeah, I am, but I highly recommend against it, cuz I have kicked people in response before out of reflex >-> that and I’d just rather not be tickled plz >->;;;;;;

75. Have you ever started a rumor?nope

76. Have you ever been in a position of authority?no, and I don’t want to be! I’d rather be a follower than a leader!!

77. Have you ever drank underage?nuh-uh

78. Have you ever done drugs?no

79. Who was your first real crush?umm………I cannot remember, honestly…

80. How many piercings do you have?none

81. Can you roll your Rs?no, but I tried so hard to before… and my family rubbed it in that they could and I can’t so fuck :c

82. How fast can you type?I just took a quick test and averaged at about 40 WPM. Not sure how fast that is lol

83. How fast can you run?not very

84. What color is your hair?Naturally dark brown, but I like coloring the ends! So far I’ve done green and a sort of minty aqua, and I’m thinking of doing a light violet next, but I’m not sure yet

85. What color is your eyes?Hazel

86. What are you allergic to?nothing that I’m aware of

87. Do you keep a journal?nope

88. What do your parents do?My mom is a middle school teacher, and my dad does some sort of IT work

89. Do you like your age?well, I have no qualms with being 24. I just don’t feel like I am is all, lol

90. What makes you angry?Cruelty and unfairness

91. Do you like your own name?Yup~

92. Have you already thought of baby names, and if so what are they?I did at one point, but I’ve forgotten them by now lol I’ll give it more serious thought if the time comes around

93. Do you want a boy a girl for a child?I honestly have no preference

94. What are you strengths?I tend to be open-minded and empathetic, so I can understand others pretty well

95. What are your weaknesses?My anxiety and low self-esteem are not helpful lol

96. How did you get your name?……I honestly don’t know. I think my parents just liked the name lol

97. Were your ancestors royalty?not that I’m aware of

98. Do you have any scars?wasn’t this asked before…? -scrolls up- ….yup, number 39. Oh well, I’ll copy and paste it~ I do have a small one next to my left eye from when I got bit by a dog when I was five, which was the cause of the hospital visit mentioned a while back

99. Color of your bedspread?My sheets have a black and white pattern on the front, and a solid light green on the other side. Same for the pillows. The other sheets are white with a grey pattern

100. Color of your room? My walls are a beige color, and I have a hardwood floor

[scouringsaucepans-blog]

Would You Just... Help Your Mum with the Shopping?

I’m at my mum’s house trying to clean her kitchen. “Trying” being the operative word.

My mum is a hoarder. Not in the sense of stacking newspapers dating back to the seventies against the walls, or hiding mason jars filled with urine under the beds, but she does have trouble throwing things away. She wants to keep everything, finds meaning, memory, in everything.

“What about this?” I say, holding up a small and badly-painted plastic dog figurine, the kind you might get free with an RSPCA membership, perhaps.

“Oh, no,” my mum says. “He’s special.”

“These?” I point to the mountain of half-empty Tic Tac boxes I’ve found.

Long sigh. “Well, I suppose. Although if they’re different flavours…”

I usually leave my mum to her Ways. I’m not home often, and the odd evenings I do pop by we find enough about politics and religion and my future to argue about without bringing her house into it. But this is different. My girlfriend and I, after a long period pretending things were working when they evidently were not, have broken up, and lacking anywhere more sensible to go it now appears I will be staying back with my mum for a while.

There’s not much it would be fair to say about the break up. My life is material for my writing; Charlie’s is not. I hope she’s going to be happier eventually without me, that we’ll still be friends, all those cliches you cling to in a sea of terror and uncertainty.

Anyway, after two days on my friend’s sofa drinking whisky and watching, inexplicably, Mythbusters and Singin’ in the Rain, I decide I am not going to fall apart, so I cook my friend and his girlfriend a risotto, then go home to my mum’s.

This is not my house, I tell myself later, standing in the kitchen. This is my mum’s house. She has a right to keep it however she wants. If she finds calm in clutter then that’s fine.

Except, are these birch leaves here? Brought back from a walk last autumn, maybe, and now crumbling to dust beneath, what? a pile of ancient Spanish phrase books, some dog-grooming leaflets for the now dead dog, a one-legged, mud-encrusted action figure from my youth, rediscovered I presume while gardening, and a veritable smorgasbord, a cornucopia, of phone and camera chargers, some of these surely from phones and cameras that haven’t been turned on since before Live and Kicking went off the telly.

Perhaps I will do a little light clearing, actually. But I’ll be understanding. I won’t interfere; I will help.

“This?” I say ten minutes later, waving a car-parking voucher from a folk festival held in 2013 at my mum’s face in an accusatory manner. “Surely you don’t still need this?”

“That will go upstairs,” she says, “with the others.”

“Yes but are you going to put it upstairs, or are you going to drop it in the other room and then I’ll find it under a load of old crosswords in six months time?”

“Oh, Robert…”

As far as I can make sense of my mother’s system, she seems to have three baskets in this kitchen for odds and ends, either sort of inchoate, nebulous planets towards which odds and ends are being pulled from the asteroid fields of odds and ends littering the rest of the room, or else the odds and ends are the inhabitants of the basket-planets, now migrating across the room’s galaxy to find new homes among the stars (or kitchen appliances) – it’s hard to tell. There is also an odds and ends drawer, that will no longer open all the way, that probably contains clues to the birth of the universe, but I just cannot even think about that drawer right now.

I condense the baskets into one, fit all the odds and ends from the rest of the room into it. I pull out the microwave and the toaster and the bread bin, brush away all the crumbs and leaf residue and sticker-ties from loaves of bread that have accumulated behind. I wipe the counter tops, clear and wipe the table. I scrub the fronts of the cupboards and around the sink and behind the collection of Interesting Shells and Rocks (?). The grill, thankfully, is already relatively clean, but I do under the hobs and the oven front and around the dials. I sort out the Things Under the Table. I sweep the floor.

That’s okay, I think. Everything is okay. I cook tea for us, serve tea, respond to my mother’s conversational prompts – Yes, it’s tough, it hurts, but I think everything is going to be okay –, smile, take the plates out, wash up. Then I go to my room and close the door and spend the rest of the night worrying that everything is really not going to be okay.

* * *

The office chair is a problem. It’s my day off and Charlie is back home with her family and we’ve arranged that now is a sensible time for me to pick up my belongings from her flat. No longer our flat. It’s these little thoughts that are the most serrated. Other examples: We’ll never now finish watching season two of Mr Robot together. How will Charlie complete the Day of the Tentacle remaster without my Playstation? And what should I do about my office chair, the one Charlie paid for the day we went to Ikea, when I zoomed about on the trolley like a child instead of thinking about the future, before Charlie got angry and I got to pretend it wasn’t my fault? I want to offer to pay for the chair, but there’s something about this that feels horrendously pragmatic, cold, like we’re negotiating a business deal. But to just take the chair would be wrong.

I text Charlie, offering to pay.

“The chair was a present,” she replies. “I don’t want anything for it.”

I feel sick.

I put the chair in the car, along with my clothes, my PC, my books. The guitars I can barely play. The DVD collection I haven’t added to since 2010. All the stupid videogames with the stupid war-men on their covers.

I sit with the cat for a long time. She attacks my hand, bounds away. She doesn’t seem to comprehend the gravity of the situation. I say goodbye to her, close the door, leave.

Back at my mum’s there is no space on my floor left on which to stand. I look at all my junk splayed about the room. A sorry account for a life. Yet all I have left to hold onto. That night I fall asleep under floral-patterned spare covers, feeling that I am slipping through the gaps between the cardboard boxes and bin bags into a weightless void beyond. I feel like I am disappearing.

* * *

The next morning, however, I have not slipped, have not disappeared. I am still here.

My mother makes coffee, talks about the Archers – which programme apparently makes her more angry than some real-world wars, yet cannot ever be missed – then asks me if I will go to Sainsbury’s with her.

I have lived back home before, as an adult, and I was bad at it. I acted like an entitled adolescent. I would get in at 3am, drunk, maybe stoned, fix myself maybe one last gin and tonic from my mum’s spirit shelf (telling myself vaguely I’d buy replacement bottles some time, never doing it), then lock myself in my room and watch films or play games, feeling unhappy, until it was time to go back to the job I hated. I treated my mum horribly, as if it was her fault I was so miserable. I sat in silent disdain through her meandering stories at the dinner table, mocked her offers to get me out of the house on a walk to the countryside – “Thanks all the same but actually I don’t fancy spending my one day away from the purgatory of that job walking around a large body of water discussing farm-based radio soap operas with my mother,” – and, most of all, I despised being asked if I would go to Sainsbury’s with her.

I would slouch along the aisles, scowling, saying I didn’t care what we bought, I didn’t know when I’d be around for tea, I’d just eat out or something, whatever. I’d be as uncooperative as possible, hoping negative reinforcement would condition my mum into never asking me along again. I would basically be a terrible prick.

Remembering those days now I think about how much I don’t want to be that person. How terrified I am of still being that person.

“Of course I’ll come to Sainsbury’s,” I say. “Shall we go now?”

In the car down, as my mother talks about Karen, who I don’t know, who was the teaching assistant before Geraldine, or was it Katie? No, it was Geraldine, because it was Geraldine who, her husband Keith, it was very sad actually, Keith had lost his brother Gavin, and Keith hadn’t really recovered, although… no, well of course that was the year before, or… God, it wasn’t Gavin was it? It was Richard – as my mother talks, I look at her, think how lonely she must be in the house by herself sometimes, about how she texts me whenever she’s in town asking if I want to meet for a coffee and I reply, three days later, “Sorry wasn’t around”, and she texts back that she loves me, and I don’t reply.

“So yes,” I say. “Geraldine’s husband…?”

We walk around Sainsbury’s, chat. I pick up a few Belgian beers, don’t say anything about my mother’s silence, accept that she worries about my drinking, accept that she is making an effort not to comment.

Back home I bring the shopping in from the car, put it away, offer to cook.

Then I sort out my room. I empty the cupboards and drawers, the boxes and bags, of my own odds and ends, mementos left over from shared houses, old jobs, university, school. I put a few letters, notebooks, old drawings to one side, throw the rest away. I bag up for charity all the clothes I don’t want. I strip everything down, dust. Then I put out my books, and the names – Foster Wallace, Delillo, Vonnegut, Hemingway, Kerouac, Fitzgerald, Plath, Woolf – look down on me approvingly.

I don’t know. It’s all a bit fucked. But maybe it will be okay. Maybe a step backwards isn’t always a step back. When you’ve lost your footing, for example. When you’ve walked head-down into a bog. Sometimes the best way forwards is actually backwards, just a little.

***

I go downstairs. The light is fading. Mum is standing in the half-light staring out of the window, one hand lightly touching the locket she wears about her neck.

“I could get rid of a few bits myself, I suppose,” she says. “Take a few bits to the charity shop. I won’t be around forever, after all, and I hate the thought of you and Liz having to deal with everything when I’m gone. That wouldn’t be fair on you.”

I put my arms around her. She is very small next to me.

“I’m sorry I haven’t been a very good son,” I say.

“Nonsense,” she says.

We stay like that a while.