#also anti zionism doesn't equate antisemitism

[claireneto]

To supposed "leftists" who turn away from revolutions because the people doing them aren't white.

[anshelsgendercrisis]

I appreciate learning from your blogs (both transmasc stuff and Jewish stuff), so if it's not overstepping, I am interested in your thoughts on something. Knowing that the terms Zionism and Zionist are being misused so frequently, I did some introductory reading from a few sources, one of which was the ADL. I've found their Hate Symbols Database helpful in the past, and I was looking into their anti-bias training resources since the school I work for has been failing (spectacularly) at such training. Reading their page on Zionism answered some basic questions, and their Myths and Facts about the ADL page also mentioned that "anti-Zionism equates to antisemitism".

Knowing that you (if I am remembering the specifics correctly, sorry if I'm misremembering) are an anarchist and against the existence of all states (including a Jewish one, thus you have explained you are neither Zionist nor anti-Zionist), I was wondering what your general thoughts are of the ADL's perspective on Zionism, and on the ADL as an organization. I hope this question doesn't come off negatively; I know I'm lacking a lot of knowledge, so I'm very grateful to be corrected on anything I said that's wrong/hurtful/ignorant/naive.

Once I get my recent medical stuff figured out, I look forward to signing up to your Patreon and giving more consistently than here-and-there Kofi donations :)

a little background on the adl: it was founded after the conviction and lynching of leo frank. its original purpose was to pressure media and businesses who engaged in antisemitic discrimination or defamation (hence the name). some of the things they engaged in early on were boycotts, demanding prior review of theater productions to screen for antisemitic content, and pressuring advertisers who relied on antisemitic stereotypes. this was in the time leading up to the holocaust, when violence and discrimination against jews was surging all over the world, so it makes a lot of sense why an organization like this was founded.

in terms of the modern organization, i have mixed feelings. i think their hate symbols database can be helpful, and i think some of the data collection is good as well, but there are a lot of stances they have and statements they've made that i really do not agree with, and some of which i think are harmful. that, for me, is why i don't generally use the adl as a primary or sole source for any news or info. i always double check multiple sources and try to use pages like myjewishlearning for educational things.

the adl is also very explicitly pro israel, as in supportive of the current state and government of israel, which is something i'm very much not. as you mentioned, i am an anarchist so i oppose the concept of states in general, including israel, and i'm also highly critical of the current israeli government.

their page on zionism is...accurate from their point of view, and from a lot of progressive zionists' points of view. but i think it paints a rosy picture of zionism that avoids any of the problematics or history of political zionism, which is just not helpful at this point. they're correct that for most people, zionism means advocating for jewish statehood in eretz yisrael, and that there has absolutely been a sort of "yearning for zion" in the diaspora for hundreds of years. and they are correct that there are many zionists who do not support the current israeli government or who advocate for a two state solution.

i also staunchly disagree that antizionism is in and of itself antisemitism. i think it is an ideology and movement that does very easily and too often fall into antisemitism, just because of the nature of how intertwined the conversation is with jewish identity and the jewish people, and we have seen many examples of this over the past month. however, because of the nebulous nature of the definition of zionism, the definition of antizionism is also going to be nebulous. if someone says "i'm a zionist", unless they elaborate i'm not going to know if i'm talking to someone who thinks that jewish people should be able to live peacefully in eretz yisrael alongside other indigenous people or to someone who wants a sovereign jewish state where jews are the ones in power. if someone says "i'm an antizionist", unless they elaborate i'm not going to know if i'm talking to someone who opposes the current state and government of israel and the occupation or someone who thinks (((zionists))) control the media and the banks and that jewish people as a collective are killing palestinian babies for fun. so for me, the terms "zionism" and "antizionism" are kind of useless unless the person i'm talking to further explains their stance, which means trying to label either zionism or antizionism as entirely inherently Bad is counterintuitive to any goal.

so to wrap this up, for me, an unwillingness to tackle the problematics is why i tend to clash with a lot of zionists and zionist institutions and organizations, and it's why i don't generally trust the adl on anything related to israel without other sources to verify.

[transfaguette]

I'm not the last passive aggressive anon, but I have seen many Jewish people explain that using Zionism to refer to defending the genocide happening right now as antisemitic because Zionism is a very complicated religious identity that doesn't necessarily relate to how someone feels about the current genocide. Essentially, it is just the belief that Jewish people have a historical tie to that land and that there needs to be some place for Jewish people to reside that is safe from antisemitic violence and attacks. I think that might be where the other anon is coming from. I saw a very in depth post yesterday that went over the details of how certain phrasing and wording in this situation could be antisemitic, I'm on mobile right now so I can't leave this message on the side while I find the post, but I will find it and send a link to it in a few moments

I think this post is ofc good and i don’t think op had bad intentions (the post is from 2012 also) but I do think its definition of zionism is overly soft. the political project of zionism and israel has always been, from its conception, rooted in the subjugation of Palestinians, and has never viewed them as being rightful inhabitants of their own home. This has always been part of the equation. Other people in the notes of this post bring this up. I have heard this opinion from other jewish people. I have read some of The Hundred Year’s War on Palestine by Rashid Khalidi and especially the parts about the origins of zionism as a political movement. Make no mistake, it is equally supported by non jews who wished to rid their countries of jewish people, and they also saw Palestinians as hardly even people.

I don’t really hold it against people who think zionism is politically neutral, but I also don’t think its an accurate conclusion. sorry. I think it’s possible to conceptualize an ideology that wants Jewish people to coexist peacefully and as equals with the modern day inhabitants of the region, but that isn’t the historical context we actually live in today.

wish I could be more detailed and provide more information but I have brainfog and I’d rather be concise.

[the-cunt-of-montecristo]

October 15th 2023

The major Italian newspapers are flat out lying about the peaceful pro-Palestine march that happened yesterday in Milan.

They describe it as attended by relatively few Palestinians, and the bulk of the protesters being "Arabs from North Africa" and "radical leftist fringes". The interviewed protesters - all brownTM - characterized as "Tunisian raised in Milan" and "resident of [italian town] from Egypt".

All of this to avoid saying the word "Italian".

The march was full of Italians. We were all Italians, regardless of the other nationalities some people might also hold.

The press focused on the "veiled girls" which are one of the scariest thing to ever happened to the west. They completely ignored the sheer amount of FAMILIES with CHILDREN, both white and brown Italians, marching peacefully.

They claimed we "insulted Netanyahu" and "shouted anti-semitic slogans". Bibi was called a murderer, which is not an insult but an adjective that describes someone who does what he does. Israel was called criminal, fascist and genocidal, all things it manifestly is. Not a word was said against the Jews; it was often remarked by the organizers how this was not a matter of religion, how Palestinians ARE semites, and how Judaism =/= Zionism.

The press pretended there were no "true" italians at the march, all the while openly comparing Hamas to alQuaeda and Daesh (always Isis on their papers), criticizing the choice of holding the march "on Shabbat" as if that was an intentional choice and not an organizational necessity, and publishing interviews to the Israeli ambassador about how "other democratic countries banned these protest in favor of terrorism, why doesn't Italy?" with heavy implications that it's because italy is antisemitic. All the while equating Jew and Israeli, and claiming that Israelis feel unsafe in Europe because of the widespread pro-Palestine sentiment.

The march was criticized for the absence of peace flags and lack of "focus on the part of the organizers on the matter of peace."

Peace WAS discussed. The first day of peace will be the last day of the occupation.

As the organizers spoke, they received news that in that very moment a hospital in Gaza had been flattened. People were dying as we marched. An organizer, a girl named Filastin, lost her voice from crying out her people's pain and anger and commitment to justice, until someone else had to take over to lead a "free Palestine" chant.

As Filastin said, people in revolt are those whp write history. Intifada until victory.

From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.

[agentoffangirling]

All sources are biased; everyone has a bias and there’s no such thing as an unbiased opinion. That being said, if you have any sources that aren’t Al Jazeera, I’d be happy to read them /gen.

JVP may be a majority Jewish organization but it has been denounced by the larger Jewish community. Does that mean Anti-Zionist Jews don’t exist? Of course not. But to claim that Jews SHOULD be antizionist when it goes against our beliefs and values is antisemitism and promotes the idea of ‘a Good Jew’ ie one that you agree with.

The Levant isn’t in the Arabian Peninsula. The reason the people there identify as Arabs is because of Arabic colonialism of the levant (this extends to other places like North Africa which clearly isn’t geographically Arab but part of the Arab world because of conquest and colonization. Middle eastern ≠ Arab. Jews are indigenous to the Middle East. We are not Arab.

Do you have a source stating that Israel is an apartheid state? I’d be happy to elaborate on why it isn’t one.

Zionists and Zionism do not want an end to Palestinians. There is literally no evidence to suggest that. Zionism is the belief that Jews need a homeland. That’s literally it. The actions of certain Zionists (such as Netanyahu) do not define Zionism or Israelis, just as Hamas does not define Palestinians.

What does an independent Palestinian state look like to you? What separates or differentiates it from the current Israeli state or a two-state solution. Because if the illegal Israeli settlements (which are wrong btw) ended and was enforced by international law, would there be a problem. Because morally, Israel, the Jewish homeland, shouldn’t have to end. It’s not fair or just.

Yes, everything and everyone does have a bias, but the point I am trying to make is that you chose sources that are very clearly pro-Zionist and conservative; one of those sources even used Canary Mission and poised them in a positive light when they have been doing irreparable damage to pro-Palestinians

I never said that all Jewish people should be anti-Zionist nor did I say that I agree with all of JVP's views. I believe they have faults and have some way to go, but I do believe in their overall mission of stopping Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians and calling out the Zionist regime

Middle Eastern doesn't equate to Arab, but many of the countries within the Middle East are Arab. The Palestinians who live in Palestine now are descendants of the people who stayed there throughout Arab colonization, so they are both Palestinian and Arab, and they seem to have no qualms about calling themselves so

Israel is apartheid. There is a reason why there are several cases investigating them right this moment; both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have called them out on it. Israel has also supported apartheid in South Africa prior to it being dismantled. It is not hard to find multiple sources on this just by searching it up

Then why have Israeli leaders made statements that the international community has deemed genocidal? Calling and comparing them to animals, saying that they want to burn Gaza to the ground? Zionism is a political movement that was designed to get the Jewish people out of Europe by claiming they should return to their "ancestral homeland". It is not the helping hand Zionists call it is

Simply, an end to the illegal settlements, pulling out of the Gaza Strip, West Bank, and all other areas entirely. That's the first step, which would then follow removing all restrictions on Palestinians, genuinely allowing them to have their own government without any sort of meddling. In the end, it would be them giving all land and authority back to the Palestinians, removing Israel as a state. This would later allow for people of different backgrounds to live together, to how it was prior to 1947

[madintersexmermaid]

My bio:

*read before you follow, like or interact!*

My name's Orion (my online name to protect my privacy). Here's some background about me:

I'm 30 years old

I'm an interfaith believer in Christ, with many additional Christian influences of Native American Christianity, Quakerism, Catholicism, Ringātu (Māori indigenous Christianity), Calvinism, Celtic Christianity, Hellenic Christianity, Appalachian Indigenous Christianity, Hellenic Judaism and Messianic Judaism as part of my faith and beliefs (yes, like it or dislike it, we interfaith Jewish believers in Christ exist. You don't have to worry about me forcing it on you as I'm aware it's a messy and complex topic to get into but don't get nasty, rude or disrespectful in my comments via invalidating my Jewishness or insistently trying to force me to not talk about my faith. Respect me and I'll respect you and vice versa).

This page and account is an adults only page for grown 21-30+ adults and older adults only.

I'm autistic, neurodivergent and mentally ill, with comorbid clinical depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, ADHD, chronic and severe debilitating OCD, borderline personality disorder, complex PTSD, schizophrenia, antisocial personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, etc.; I believe in both professional diagnosis and in self diagnosis and every mentally ill and neurodivergent individuals' illness and neurodivergency presents differently in each individual, so don't start any pointless discourse as it always tips into ableism, disrespect, rudeness and neurotypical social desirability standards and I'm not in the mood for any of that.

I'm extremely mixed race, with extensive Black Native, Afro-Indigenous, Afro-Native, Afro-European, Afro-Aboriginal, Blasian, Romani, Melungeon, Asian-Indigenous and Jewish ancestry. Don't start any pointlessly rude and disrespectful discourse thinking you have any right to dictate how a mixed race and biracial individual should identify or express themselves or what they should look like; it's racist, featurist, colorist and plain rude, point blank.

I support the Jewish community especially as I'm Jewish and a Jew of color, so antisemitism will not be tolerated.

I'm also pro Palestinian and anti zionist and yes, like it or not, being Jewish doesn't automatically equate to being zionist and being Jewish doesn't require anybody to be zionist; plus, zionism's fascism and white supremacy, and with me also being a mixed race Afro-Palestinian / Palestinian Jew, I refuse to have anything to do with zionism. If you're zionist and have a problem with any of this, block me immediately.

I'm intersex. I was born intersex and have a large amount of intersex variants (i.e. polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), PCOS-related hypoandrogenism, XXX syndrome, Non-classical Cogenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (NCAH), hypogonadism, partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (PAIS), etc.); the only type of questions I'll answer are questions that are respectful not just to me but intersex folks at large, especially intersex women/femmes and black and brown intersex women/femmes of color and also intersex men/mascs and intersex men/mascs of color. Any questions that get invasively oversexual, rude and intrusive will be stopped immediately. And any form of intersexism, interphobia, intermisogyny, intermisogynoir as well as intermisandry and intermisandrinoir, whether it be intersexist erasure and invalidating intersex folks' existence, regurgitating of harmful and offensive right wing conservative or radical "feminist" eugenicism that reduces and stigmatizes, and wrongly and falsely paints intersex folks as medical deformities or pitiable defects in need of "fixing" (aka promoting unethical and unwanted surgeries that leave us intersex folks physically, mentally, emotionally and psychologically damaged and traumatized) or just any type of manipulative, abusive and disrespectful intersexist gaslighting and endosplaining will be reported and online trolls that do these things will be blocked. Oh, and if you're a radfem = instant block. Ya'll are the worst perpetrators of everything I mentioned and I know ya'll are bigoted, extremist IERFs (Intersex Exclusionary Radical Feminists) by proxy, and we have nothing to talk about and I have no interest in listening to any of the baloney ya'll have to say. Ya'll are not feminists and are not radical, ya'll are frauds and chronically online fake feminist Karens.

I'm an Appalachian and an Urban Appalachian and want to know more about that part of my culture especially given my Melungeon heritage and my roots in midwestern and southern states such as Texas, Louisiana, Virginia, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Ohio, Mississippi, Missouri, Tennessee, Illinois, Georgia, Indiana and Florida, and the Ozark Mountains.

DNI (do not interact) if you're: zionist (liberal or conservative), right wing conservative, Donald Trump/MAGA supporter, Andrew Tate defender/sympathizer, Amber Heard defender/sympathizer, Justin and Hailey Bieber fan or defender/sympathizer, Ron Desantis defender/sympathizer, Lovatic/Demi Lovato fan/defender, Trey Songz defender/sympathizer, radfem, redpill fratdude, racist, white supremacist, divester, an apologist for any type of abuse towards others, if you have any hateful antisemitic views, if you have anti Palestinian racist and xenophobic views, etc.

[batri-jopa]

The article under the link:

German leaders denounce US artist's fiery Israel speech

Photographer Nan Goldin denounced what she called Israel's "genocide in Gaza and Lebanon." She was in Berlin for the opening of a retrospective about her life's work.

American photographer, artist and activist Nan Goldin has caused outrage with a speech in Germany accusing Israel of "genocide in its conflicts in Gaza and Lebanon." Goldin, who is of Jewish origin and among the most renowned artists in contemporary photography, also used the opening of her exhibition at the Neue Nationalgalerie in Berlin on Friday to say that criticism of Israel doesn't equate to antisemitism. German cultural leaders criticized Nan Goldin's speech for being one-sided but emphasized the importance of free expression and dialogue. What did Nan Goldin say? The 71-year-old Goldin began her almost 14-minute speech with four minutes of silence to remember victims of the conflict in the Palestinian territories and Lebanon, as well as civilians killed in Israel. The gallery's lifetime retrospective of Goldin, entitled "This Will Not End Well," showcases a comprehensive overview of her work, including slideshows and films, backed by music. "I have decided to use this exhibition as a platform to amplify my position of moral outrage at the genocide in Gaza and Lebanon," Goldin then told the audience. Her comments were made a day after the International Criminal Court in The Hague issued arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant on suspicion of war crimes and crimes against humanity. "My grandparents escaped pogroms in Russia. I was brought up knowing about the Nazi Holocaust. What I see in Gaza reminds me of the pogroms that my grandparents escaped," she said. How have German-Israeli ties changed since Oct. 7 attacks? "Never again means never again for everyone," Goldin added, referring to a phrase used by Germans as a key lesson of the Holocaust during World War II in which 6 million Jews were killed. "What have you learned, Germany?" Goldin continued, attacking the country's handling of pro-Palestinian protests during the war. She also spoke up about the treatment of artists and others who expressed harsh criticism of Israel, who have had exhibitions in Germany canceled or dealt with other repercussions. Criticism of Israel has been conflated with antisemitism," Goldin said, adding that, "Anti-Zionism has nothing to do with antisemitism." She then alleged that Islamophobia was being ignored in Germany, saying that the country is the "home of the largest Palestinian diaspora in Europe. Yet protests are met with police dogs and deportation and stigmatization." she said. Goldin walked off the stage to loud chants of "free, free Palestine." The crowd chanted "Free Palestine" during a subsequent speech by the museum's director Klaus Biesenbach Speech criticized by politicians and cultural leaders Museum director Klaus Biesenbach gave a speech after Goldin, defending Israel's right to exist, arguing the conflict started with the October 7, 2023 attack by Hamas on Israel, but he also called for sympathy toward the suffering of the civilian population in Gaza. Biesenbach later released a statement, saying the gallery distanced itself from the protesters' stance, adding that it "stands for freedom of expression and respectful dialogue and interaction with each other." German Culture Minister Claudia Roth denounced Goldin for her "unbearably one-sided political views" and said she was "appalled" at the way people in the audience chanted slogans like "Free Palestine." But Roth rejected calls for a boycott of an upcoming symposium and said she hoped for an open and civilized debate. The culture minister of Berlin state, Joe Chialo, also accused Goldin of "one-sidedness" and "obliviousness to history" with her remarks in Berlin, "the city in which the Holocaust was planned." Hermann Parzinger, the president of the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation, also sharply denounced Goldin's talk. "This does not correspond to our understanding of freedom of expression," he said.

Here's the full speach of Nan Goldin with English and German subtitles on Instagram:

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by @about_socialarts

Few quotes:

"never again means never again for everyone"

"because advocating for human rights cannot be antisemitic"

German leaders denounce US artist's fiery Israel speech – DW – 11/23/2024

Antiszemita/anticionista zsidó. Elásta magát libernyák körökben, mehet vissza ugrálni a balettba

[gotta-bail-my-quails]

The poster proceeds to bring up the point of Anti-semitism, which may be one of their very few, if any, valid arguments. They claim hating Zionists is "latent Jew-hatred" and that Zionism itself has no definition [even though the first thing that comes up when you search it up is a definition: noun 1) a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.] Though they acknowledge only a small portion believe that Zionism is equivalent to Judaism, they accuse others of being complicit. They also mention the "equating [of Zionists] with Nazis"

Yes, antisemites will and have tried to use the conflict to encourage hatred of Jews. However, there are Jews everywhere who also argue for a free Palestine (something the poster doesn't agree with—again "one state under Israel") and it would be ridiculous to claim they are antisemitic. Holocaust survivors have even spoken out against Israel's actions. Frankly, Israel's aggression only hurts Jews by appropriating their name for their inhumane and oppressive cause.

We can only continue to speak out against antisemites (which as others have pointed out, also includes those discriminatiing against Arabs!) and responsibly inform ourselves.

On the specific point about comparing Zionists to Nazis, I would like to point to a post here (will try to link later if I can) of a quiz asking whether a phrase was said by Zionists or Nazis. It was so difficult to tell the difference if you did not have prior knowledge of the quotes, that it was basically blind guessing all the way through, with near 50/50 results.

The poster claims that this attitude causes Israelis or Jews to vote for Netanyahu's party—if they do, that says more about them and their priorities and opinions than anyone else's, in my opinion. 

The poster claims that disinformation and propaganda (from all sides*) are pumped out "in order to manipulate uneducated Westerners into supporting their interests". I'm actually uncertain if they mean to include Israeli propaganda in this though they list pro-Israel state USA because they then proceed to only address the issue when it comes to pro-Palestinian news.  I won't address this point much but I do at least agree that critical analysis of any information should be used. For instance, as I was doing (admittedly brief due to time) research for this response, I found that the IOF claimed videos of Palestinians holding white flags being shot were edited (who has the time or technology or resources for that in this war? Obviously the Hamas base under UNRWA or the hospitals they bombed /s). I had also found a post from twitter of an apparently false translation of Zionist chanting to make them seem more aggressive (rather than just celebrating the occupation of Palestine, hah…). I can't translate so I can't verify anything (and I don't even know if the person who apparently falsely translated wasn't some elaborate ploy to discredit pro-Palestinian movements either—see the problem here?) but I would like to emphasize it can go both ways. Remember the calendar claimed to be Hamas names? Yeah… And I recently saw a post of Palestinians apparently condemning Hamas for "rejecting a ceasefire" (not sure what event they are referencing—the first thing I found was that Hamas rejected an Egyptian offer because they wanted a permanent ceasefire; will have to research more later) but the poster was pro-Israel and furthermore the account which apparently translated it was also one that was seemingly pro-Israel so who can say what is true and what is not.

In this section they also speak of how this propaganda is meant to "destabilize Western democracy" (which, as I've already discussed, is ridiculous because Western democracy has already long been a sham. Re: Vietnam, Re: Donald Trump's election despite losing the popular vote, Re: this whole shitshow)

5/6

I would like to preface this post with an acknowledgement that I have blocked the user who originally posted this. The main reason is because nothing would convince them to change their mind (especially because they seem to be intent on "changing minds" but only if it is from a Pro-Palestine to Pro-Israel mindset). That being said, this post I'm making may seem superfluous—why make a response if I don't want the person to see it? Mostly, I want to warn others of the rhetoric used against support for Palestine and—as I will soon address—because these people dared to bring up a subject personal to me and I will not stand to let it to be appropriated for this purpose.

I will be addressing one main post and a few other arguments used against Palestinian resistance.

The main post was posted on Tumblr, and was a respost of a post from Reddit. It is in image form below, but I will add the text if asked in a reblog. My response summarizes the points I address. Also I'm going to have to add my full response in multiple reblogs due to character limits.

The arguments can be summarized as thus:

I would like to preface this post with an acknowledgement that I have blocked the user who originally posted this. The main reason is because nothing would convince them to change their mind (especially because they seem to be intent on "changing minds" but only if it is from a Pro-Palestine to Pro-Israel mindset). That being said, this post I'm making may seem superfluous—why make a response if I don't want the person to see it? Mostly, I want to warn others of the rhetoric used against support for Palestine and—as I will soon address—because these people dared to bring up a subject personal to me and I will not stand to let it to be appropriated for this purpose.

I will be addressing one main post and a few other arguments used against Palestinian resistance.

The main post was posted on Tumblr, and was a respost of a post from Reddit. It is in image form below, but I will add the text if asked in a reblog.

The arguments can be summarized as thus:

The methods Western leftists use are ineffective and/or immoral due to idealism and radical approaches. The suggested solution is to give funds to "the Israeli left" and supporting a "reasonable solution" meaning a two-state or one-state under Israel solution, with a "humanitarian end" with a "unilateral Hamas surrender"

Here, they compare the "dream scenario that will never happen" to the situation in Vietnam. I presume they mean the opposition to the war, while the government continued to bomb the country more than all of Europe in WWII combined despite knowing full well they would lose and that they do not mean to make an analogy using the war as a whole. If they had, then I would like to make a snide comment here about the North winning despite the South having the US's support, but I will refrain. More than that, I would relate this to a later argument the poster makes about the "destabilization of Western democracy". Considering the poster is American, I will address this within a US context (although we should really explore the ways other Western countries are acting). This is a reflection of the failure of the power structures within the US as a whole, and not the ineffectiveness of the protests. The war in Vietnam was vastly unpopular but the executive department has historically used presidential power to push war—evidenced by the war power acts previously and Biden forcing through funding for the conflict now. The US is a republic, not a true democracy, and it is self-evident that the same reason the poster claim protests don't work invalidates their claims of an otherwise functioning Western democracy. I would go so far as to suggest revolution is being implied, but the poster evidently thinks resistance is hardly reasonable.

I am curious as to how the poster thinks positive changes have occurred, if they consider boycotts and the like are ineffective (they only say "it doesn't take a lot of thought" to see their point, but it seems to me they are avoiding the issue under the excuse of "common sense" and "brevity"). Most Americans (and most in general) do not have a direct hand in the government—California excepted, perhaps, given the proposition system—so, we turn to utilizing economic power and force. Unions, for one, have earned better treatment for workers for decades (remember the recent SAG-AFTRA strikes?) through the threat of withholding labor and therefore profits. After all, our world is one based heavily in economic-morality (which I am currently writing a separate essay on and which we may point to the response to Yemen right now).

1/5