#also I realised all of these are mxtx’s because those are the novels which I’ve dove deepest into in the fandom

[lryghe]

SVSSS thoughts; perspective

Perspective and the change of it is a major part of the story telling in Scum Villain. I think it’s used in such a genius way, because through Shen Qingqiu’s horrifically unreliable narration, the novel is distorted in such a way that makes characterisation a very difficult topic, alongside drastically altering the concepts and themes explored. 

Through Shen Qingqiu’s eyes, everything is rather black and white. “Luo Binghe will be blackened, Liu Qingge will die, Liu Mingyan, Sha Hualing, and Ning Yingying will marry Luo Binghe, and I’ll just try not to get pickled. Easy right?” But because Shen Qingqiu sees everyone through this extreme lens, the drama of the novel is downplayed significantly. Transmigration novels will always have a moment where the main character realises that they’re in a novel, that the people here all have thoughts and feelings just like they do, and it’s done in such an interesting way with Shen Qingqiu, because it’s one of the four (4) times he’s like entirely serious throughout the novel. He realises that he’s alive and breathing, and that the actions he takes affect those around him, and suddenly the world has a bit more of grey added to the spectrum. He rather quickly accepted he was in the novel originally, so this is essentially a world-shattering realisation for him, having to actually think about his feelings beyond speed running a sexuality crisis. 

But because the novel is through SQQ’s eyes, we don’t see the other side of the coin, we don’t see Luo Binghe, or Liu Qingge, or even Yue Qingyuan’s view on everything (which haunts me because it would be SO COOL AND INTERESTING). And they would all be such interesting topics to explore, because having Scum Villain from entirely Luo Binghe’s perspective would be a legitimate nightmare. Young and vaguely traumatised Luo Binghe being abused by his teacher, then suddenly he wakes up one day in his little woodshed and his Shizun is nice to him? And he continues to be nice to him for years? And then he pushes him into Actual Hell for no apparent reason (because at the end of the day, SQQ had gone around saying that demons were cool for years, before quick-step changing his mind the second his beloved student was one, which was ridiculous and he should be lucky LBH was only murderous for a few years because I would have done a lot worse honestly)? And then his teacher dies for him? And then comes back? And continues to sacrifice himself despite all the wrong he’s done, and you never get an explanation for it? Luo Binghe doesn’t need nor want an explanation for SQQ’s actions though, he’s content to just have his Shizun by his side.  

I found while writing my Luo Binghe analysis on his MBTI that it was seriously difficult to find good instances of characterisation simply because SQQ made everything difficult by being a blockhead about anyone and everyone. I really wanted to talk about this because SVSSS is my favourite of MXTX’s works and it deserves to be equal parts criticised and applauded for this narrative perspective. The unreliability presents a challenge to her audience, and also gives depth to the extent to which you can characterise and the extent one's head canons can prevail. I thought people would talk about this more, but I’ve only seen like 2 people ever talk about this </3 

Words: 571 

Reading time: 3 mins 

[danhoemei]

Hi...who are your top 5 favorite side-pairings (can be canon or fanon) from all of the danmei novel that you've finished? Why you like them?

Thanks so much 🌻

Welcome back ✨ First of all, so very sorry for letting your ask sit in my inbox for so long and collect dust dfvbdkfjvgb I’ve been so busy lately.

Also hhhhh this question is hella hard because I suddenly realised how many side pairings I like for so many different reasons xdd so I went with the pairings I read at least one fic about.

(In no particular order)

Moshang

Let’s be real, this pairing is a mine for comedic shenanigans and an epitome of oblivious pining idiots in love. There are basically a lot of tropes I enjoy and sqh is one of my fav characters from svsss so it’s fun to read things from his pov. Peak comedy tinged with angst and sweetness, from distrust to I-will-kill-for-you, hurt and untrusting person finally letting it sink in that they are loved and they will go feral for their loved one, a constantly mistreated and used by others person finally getting something back and realising that they are worthy and loved... *clenches fist* yeah.... 

Bingliushen 

Tbh canon bingqiu didn’t really make it for me, their relationship felt so toxic and on strings, and I needed quite a few fics after finishing the book to actually Feel them. Another of my dissatisfactions was lqg who was left just like that, never having his (hella obvious) feelings seen, validated, or at least acknowledged. And he’s one of my fav characters ever xdd so I want him to be happy ;-; But liushen didn’t feel right for me as well unless it was an AU or we kill off binghe, because in my eyes this obsessed demon would never let anyone else have his shizun, over his (literally) dead body.

Then I stumbled upon acernor’s bingliushen fics. And let me tell you, I’ve never been keen on threesomes or polyamory, for me if there was any doubt in the relationship caused by a third party I felt anxious and insecure and was not enjoying the story, I just needed two people madly in love with each other, happy and sure. But then I gave acernor’s fics a try and BAM *fanfares* a new door opened and I experienced a galaxy brain moment, realised how soft and wholesome and completing polyamory can be, and that was it for me. Everything fit into place, bingqiu actually falling in love and sorting out their communication and relationship, lqg getting his share of love and even more than he’d ever thought of, all three of them finding what they need in each other then living happily and together and I AM SOFT SDKJFDFBKJE

So ye acernor doesn’t even know how much I’ve been reorganised because of their fics (not only when it comes to shipping >2 characters together but also my own approach to relationships lmao) and that they literally inspired me to take a shot at writing my own explicit fic xd and here I am now 

Qijiu

Yeah they were tragically harmful to each other and those around because of their inability to communicate and open up to each other and handle their traumas. And yeah I wish happiness for them. I dwell on AUs in which they can be happy together after all they went through, with them admitting what they want and living with it. I am weak for characters who are misunderstood and have difficulties with opening up, so shen jiu especially has a soft spot in my heart. But yqy needs to be there with him for me to feel complete, because these two can’t live without each other whether they like it or not, as we very well know from the novel. And I want them to experience cosiness of happiness, peace for these two stitched souls T-T

Xicheng

I don’t even ship them as in headcanon ship, my headcanon is 3zun or at least xiyao and/or nielan. But I love jiang cheng too much (another grumpy character who can’t say their feelings clearly huh xd) and want him to be happy. I saw so many arts and read quite a few fics with xicheng, and I just really enjoy this dynamic even though I don’t consider it fitting to my view of the canon story. In short, energetic fiery mind meeting a calm and soothing partner, bonus for lxc hiding a storm behind that calm especially when it comes to his desires ;d Explosive characters being tamed is kinda a thing for me ajkvnfdkjvsd 

Songxiao

I am weak and soft for them, and weep for their tragic story every single time. They were so harmonious together, like two sides of the same coin, complementing each other and completing each other. They shared the same dream and I like to think that they would create a really good and open sect which would set an example for others. Thus, Yi city arc absolutely annihilated me, stepped on the pieces of my soul while sprinkling my tears on itself like perfume then spun around and walked away laughing. I need AUs with these two being happy with their adopted daughter a qing ;____; 

There are so many more but this time I will keep to the limit of 5 xD unless someone asks ;d

[crossdressingdeath]

to continue off of the anon talking about jc stans downplaying jc’s canon homophobia, i wonder if it’s partly because they view the homophobia present in the plot and in character behavior as a flaw of the novel rather than an integral part of the romantic conflict and character motivation

like, i’ve seen plenty of takes in this fandom around the idea that cql is ‘better’ because its world exists without homophobia (which they never acknowledge is because of censorship 😬). i’ve even seen people pass around edited versions of the translation “without the homophobia” as if removing those scenes doesn’t actually affect anything at all in the story and in our understanding of the characters.

i don’t think all jc stans or only jc stans have this take but law of large numbers there is definitely some overlap and i really think these attitudes contribute to each other. a person already predisposed to ignore the flaws of jc also gets it into their head that his homophobia isn’t even his flaw but the author’s. just another instance of horrible mxtx showing her biases :///. then they absorb this weird idea that jc’s flaws are actually a result of bias from the author and that jc himself (as if he is anything more than a literal construct made by the person they are determined to dislike) is a victim of her just truly awful thoughts :////////

Yes! It’s a big problem, where people fail to realise that a work containing something is not the same as that work supporting something. Personally I suspect that with MDZS in particular the issue is that the people making this argument have come to the conclusion that JC is the “hero” and so always right and correct; if JC is always Right And Just in the narrative and JC is homophobic, clearly we’re supposed to conclude that homophobia is Right And Just! This is, of course, incredibly stupid, but here we are. And as you say alternately they’ve decided that JC’s homophobia isn’t his flaw, it’s the author’s, because there’s no way an author could give a character a belief they don’t share or anything. There are of course other explanations for why people would hate the canon gay couple and stan the only openly, violently homophobic character who doesn’t learn better by the end of the novel while calling him their “homophobic gay king” and insisting he’s the only good gay rep, but... well, let’s not get into that.

With CQL in particular it’s... almost funny, because the subtext makes it very clear that unlike in the novel (where LWJ is punished for, y’know, treason) CQL’s LWJ is beaten for... having feelings for WWX. Meaning homophobia is in fact real and present in CQL’s universe. In fact it’s more present, even with the removal of all textual gay content meaning that all textual homophobia is also cut; remember that the Lan sect canonically isn’t homophobic, or at least is not-homophobic enough to take zero issue with their heir marrying a man beyond “Wangji why that one”. Meanwhile in CQL they’re straight-up beating him for it! And yet CQL has no homophobia in its setting? What, because it changes it so that JGY just accused MXY of harassing QS instead of going for the triple whammy of harassing his married half-brother? Because JC doesn’t outright call WWX disgusting for hugging a man? That is not how it works. Cutting the gay from everything except subtext is not the same as the setting not being homophobic!

People really do fail to realise that... the antagonists being homophobic or using homophobia to achieve their ends isn’t the same as saying that that’s a good thing? Yes, the MDZS universe contains homophobia, and it’s fine to not really enjoy a work that contains homophobia at all. But it never appears as a lasting trait in characters we’re supposed to root for, and when it appears at all in those characters it going away is an important part of their development. See JL; him going from being disgusted by WWX’s flirting with LWJ to demanding that if WWX is going to be Like That he should at least stay loyal to LWJ to just grumbling a bit over seeing his uncle being lovey-dovey is basically giving us a clear metric for his growth as a character! Honestly I’d take a work where homophobia exists in the setting but it’s clearly set up as a negative trait that only shows up in the heroes as something they need to grow out of over a work where homophobia supposedly doesn’t exist but people still seem weirded out or disgusted by gay relationships any day.

[captainkirkk]

Finished tgcf book 1! Btw reminder that you can blacklist ‘liveblogging’ if you don’t want to see these posts.

Thoughts so far:

Not sure whether it’s because this is my second translated book so I’ve adapted to the writing style, or if MXTX’s writing has improved since this is her latest novel, but I’m finding tgcf really easy to read! SVSSS bogged me down in places and I found the writing a bit clunky at times, but tgcf has been a breeze

I adore Hua Cheng. I love how he just wants to support and spoil and spend time with Xie Lian. He tells him, “Just keep doing what you want.” And also he says, “For some, that special person just existing in the world is hope.” It kills me.

We keep learning more and more about Xie Lian’s life and how fucked up it’s been. No wonder he has such a shitty concept of self worth. I mean, he’ll still defend and protect himself and I do think he still has a sense of pride (even if it’s changed over the centuries), but he’s carrying around so much guilt and believes he’s really the God of Misfortune

I wonder what Hua Cheng has been through. People keep saying that a Supreme is born from extreme suffering, but we know very little about Hua Cheng’s past. All I know is that he was the poor boy that 17yo Xie Lian caught in his first life. I wonder what happened between then and now to turn him into such a powerful Ghost King

Love the side characters! I really hope Qianqiu doesn’t turn cruel and realises why Xie Lian did the things he did. Their characters are so similar.

And Mu Qing and Feng Xin! LOVE those fools. Want to learn more about their pasts. I have a feeling they’re harboring a lottt of guilt about abandoning Xie Lian after his first banishment

The Wind Master is a bit of a tricky one, but I have to say, the way they were so quickly ride or die for Xie Lian is very good. Also genderfluid gods?? Genderfluid gods!!

As for the Emperor.... I don’t trust him as far as I can throw him (re: at all). I have a feeling he knows exactly how powerful Xie Lian is, even though Xie Lian himself doesn’t exert that power very often, and is using Xie Lian which is incredibly worrying because Xie Lian is the kind of person who would recognise he was being used and let it happen anyway, so long as no one else was being hurt too badly along the way. I mean, it sounds like they fought after Xie Lian’s second ascension, and Xie Lian even managed to stab him a few times, so he knows firsthand how powerful he is. I just can’t trust his intentions. He’s manipulating Xie Lian but I don’t know yet what his end goal is. Probably something to do with Hua Cheng. Not sure, but I’m very worried.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I just found a chengxian blog and checked out a fanfic - just to see how they worked around wangxian - I’m always curious and sometimes this kind of thing gives me insight I didn’t realise was present - but jfc, the delusion is real.

Now I know, it’s bad form to go look for this stuff and shit on a ship, and I’m not shitting on the very concept of chengxian. Hell, before the fall of LP, I could even see something? Something unhealthy and all sorts of unbalanced but okay sure. And AUs of course. Either way, to each their own.

But these post-resurrection or even worse, post canon fics are hilarious.

Because suddenly we’re all forgetting just how gone WWX is for LWJ because they have similar interests (music and literature), morals (you know, being good) and have always been equals (in talent) - and instead we have WWX being a miserable drunk and hating CR because LWJ gives in too easily, he doesn’t have enough pushback to stimulate him (are we forgetting how this relationship started?) and it just baffles me.

Why it baffles me is the lack of awareness. Do they actually believe this? I mean, I’ve read some XiYao fics and some of those shippers are very well aware of the effed up dynamics at play. Sure, they mess around with it, give Yao some benefit of the doubt, make a lot of canon divergences, but these guys just see everything through opaque rose coloured glasses and somehow try to justify it and I don’t really know how they function...

Btw I’m a CQL only but with a healthy respect for the other forms but CQL really did mess with minds when you see JC clapping for WWX during the archery thing (albeit with a constipated smile and he didn’t even participate) while the donghua which is closer to the novel clearly shows us that he was upset at not winning himself - this is apparently a very clear sign of his adoration and of course justifies how he basically led to WWX throwing himself off a cliff because the irrational grape would have led to both wangxian falling.

Just🤦🏼‍♀️

I'm dealing with a migraine so hopefully what I put here isn't too mean in regards to this ship.

I don't in anyway care what others ship given that I myself lowkey ship ridiculous things that have no romantic basis in the material (and given I respect the author I see exactly what she means that none other than the purely romantic pairs shown in MDZS are meant to be seriously interpreted as romantic in canon). But hey, I like shallow, I like the effed up dynamic in NieYao and XueXiao and like the shallowness of X!cheng for fun what if's. But you (general you but for the stans specifically) have got to admit when something is just for shallow fun without demeaning the real work itself and hate the main core of it and changing the dynamics to be so wildly OOC because you are personally salty (You look like a major Karen doing this shit and are fucking adults sounding like those middle school shit heads).

I also have a whole fanon conspiracy that Jiang Cheng works as a false love interest and as an unrequited fucked up crush/obsession since I personally feel it adds more to Jiang Cheng's depths in terms of exploration for FAN works.

"Do they actually believe this?"

Yes, they honestly do believe, in all their tiny galaxy brained power that this ship is somehow superior and has romantic chemisty along with needing to have been the focused CP. I will point out it is really not even what I would consider a popular pair given it has just under 2k on AO3 alone for the Western base along with the Untamed/MDZS having the largest audience for Danmei works there. Lofter itself has it's own top 100 ships with Jiang Cheng's most popular being X!cheng by a large margin similar to it's Western stats.

If we breakdown it's rankings for both

AO3: Rank 2 of overall ship works 2020: Wangx!an

Rank 55: X!cheng

with ChengX!an being too low in numbers to rank in.

Lofter overall ship works 2020: Rank 1: Wangx!an (with X!anwang ranking again at 66)

Rank 13: X!cheng

Rank 48: Xiancheng (and yes this is a very important distinction as it denotes the "dominate" one in the pair)

If we were to mesh these together with tumblr stats in a similar way the overall would still be Wangxian ranking high as Rank 1 in the Untamed/MDZS tag, overall ships Rank 13 and the only MXTX pair to be featured.

After that digression, regardless of the interpretations, even with Wang ZhouCheng he himself only played up the sibling aspect of the relationship as was in script, it does not have the supposed chemistry they speak of when they slap the Wangx!an one on it. God damn if I have to see this Cuckji shit from these shippers one more time my eyes will roll on the floor and melt from the stupid, which is ironic since Jiang Cheng himself was the canon Cuck who's bro got swept off his feet by the canon Chad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jiang Cheng through several passages in the book shows that his downfall was his jealousy of Wei Wuxian as his own person that did not listen to him specifically but it was never in terms of romance at the base of what MXTX was showing simple as that. This was shown with Wei Wuxian's interest in Lan Wangji, him saving Lan Wangji and to a point MianMian, as well as the Wen Remnants because it simply left Jiang Cheng what he considered more work and trouble. He cared about Wei Wuxian in so much as Wei Wuxian didn't make a splash for the reputation of Yunmeng Jiang while hypocritically having made use of Wei Wuxian during the war and turning around to be jealous of the devotion Wei Wuxian had during that time due to the attention Wei Wuxian garnered. Jiang Cheng simply did not think he had to extend some sort of actual good will to Wei Wuxian since he felt he had given enough of that just by the sake of Jiang Fengmian taking him in as a disciple and raising him. HOW you get Wei Wuxian having romantic inclination out of this, I can't say as I am not enlightened enough for the wonders of ChengX!an and apparently want to fuck MXTX who I have never met or know, or, want to fuck the very gay leads (who do not exist) despite being a lesbian.

[ouyangzizhensdad]

I don’t mean to “pile on” or give hate for that specific take (that I have just now seen for the first time–this is what happens when one staunchly refuses to use twitter), but it is indicative of some takes I’ve seen recently about the novel (especially those which aimed to highlight what was ‘better’ about CQL) so I will use it as a springboard to share some of my thoughts on this. 

The argument that “mdzs would be better without the reincarnation” is fascinating to me because mdzs would definitely not be a better piece of fiction if the narrative was linear and stopped at wwx’s death as none of the themes and arcs would have been realised, and most of the storytelling devices MXTX uses would be rendered meaningless. Unless OP suggests that a totally different piece of fiction be written about the events of wwx’s first life, with new themes and arcs that can be fully realized by the time he dies, then it would not be a stronger piece of fiction. It might be a piece of fiction that suits their personal tastes more, which is a totally fair opinion to hold (which OP seems to suggest, ie they like the tragedy and the Yiling Laozu arc more, personally). But I have found that, within fandoms, people seem to struggle with drawing the line between what makes a piece of fiction “better” (more competent, more impactful, more creative, etc.) and what makes a piece of fiction more suited to our own personal tastes or agendas. 

Most posts I see about what people argue is “better” in CQL have generally little to do with the quality of the storytelling, how well devices are wielded, how motifs are introduced, or how complex the narrative and the themes get to be. More often than not, they will underline divergences that make CQL into a more straightforward romance with less tension, or point to Peak Romance Moments™, or refer to general goalposts that are applied to all pieces of media indiscriminately (there are more scenes with women in them!) or to other personal preferences. Which again, is fine! Totally fair! You can write about what you personally prefer in a piece of fiction! You can highlight what resonated more with you! But because it features things you like or prefer, it does not mean a work is better or stronger(as someone who has a soft stop for ‘delinquents with secret heart of gold’ I know what it means to lovingly consume middling-to-bad content). Laying on the romance during wwx’s first life, for instance, contradicts a central tension set up by the novel after his reincarnation: that is, that wwx believes that lwj hates him and refuses his help or to reveal his identity for this reason. CQL ends up wanting to have the cake and eat it too with the choices it makes, and as such, from a storytelling perspective, it handles this source of tension less successfully and introduces unresolved contradictions within its narrative. It might be a more enjoyable piece of fiction to you, but it is a weaker piece of fiction all the same because it does not fully set up this source of tension, and it simplifies the changing relationship between wwx and lwj.

Another example: Arguing, for instance, that CQL is better because the existing female characters are included in more scenes has always been interesting to me, because from a storytelling perspective, this increased inclusion often muddy or weaken their original arcs/thematic resonance (or that of other characters), or change nothing to their original impact on the events of the plot. Mianmian, I’d argue, is not better served or established or more meaningful on a thematic level because they added her in more scenes, and other characters are not better served by it either. Portraying proud Jin Zixuan, whose arc necessitates him to realize he was blinded by his pride, works a little bit less when we’re introduced to him and his best pal Mianmian (especially since Mianmian was supposed to be of very low social statuts, ie the child of a servant)–it also cheapens his choice to stand up for her in the xuanwu cave. In the novel, he’s not protecting his friend, but an unknown disciple, which makes  it the first moment in which wwx (and the audience!) gets to see a side of Jin Zixuan that shows that he is more than his pride and his upbringing, and that he can become someone worthy of JYL! It also cheapens Mianmian’s choice on a a thematic level: she was lucky enough to rise as a disciple in the novel after the sunshot campaign (we see her sitting next to a (her?) sect leader by then, which suggests her growing recognition) despite her low social status and yet she gave it all up when she realized how corrupt the cultivation world can be–having her start up as Jin Zixuan’s favorite disciple sort of changes the thematic resonance of her arc and choices in comparison with other characters in the novel. 

TLDR: I am using this confession as a springboard to share my thoughts on why saying ‘something would be “better” if X’ sort of annoys me as it often does not (or will not) differentiate between personal taste and more competent and interesting storytelling. 

this confession is regarding a post that I made like a year ago(?) saying that I think mdzs would be better without the whole wwx reincarnation thing anyway someone recently shared it in twitter and things got pretty heated. my god this fandom takes things so personally 🙄🙄 Well it seriously was not that deep, I just like angst/tragedy and I like wangxian during yiling laozu period. Okay that’s literally fucking all. Holy shit. It was just a passing thought I had. (1/2)

(If mods posted this right away it would be appreciated considering it’s a very recent thing. Thank you) 2/2