#also I realised all of these are mxtx’s because those are the novels which I’ve dove deepest into in the fandom

[lryghe]

SVSSS thoughts; perspective

Perspective and the change of it is a major part of the story telling in Scum Villain. I think it’s used in such a genius way, because through Shen Qingqiu’s horrifically unreliable narration, the novel is distorted in such a way that makes characterisation a very difficult topic, alongside drastically altering the concepts and themes explored. 

Through Shen Qingqiu’s eyes, everything is rather black and white. “Luo Binghe will be blackened, Liu Qingge will die, Liu Mingyan, Sha Hualing, and Ning Yingying will marry Luo Binghe, and I’ll just try not to get pickled. Easy right?” But because Shen Qingqiu sees everyone through this extreme lens, the drama of the novel is downplayed significantly. Transmigration novels will always have a moment where the main character realises that they’re in a novel, that the people here all have thoughts and feelings just like they do, and it’s done in such an interesting way with Shen Qingqiu, because it’s one of the four (4) times he’s like entirely serious throughout the novel. He realises that he’s alive and breathing, and that the actions he takes affect those around him, and suddenly the world has a bit more of grey added to the spectrum. He rather quickly accepted he was in the novel originally, so this is essentially a world-shattering realisation for him, having to actually think about his feelings beyond speed running a sexuality crisis. 

But because the novel is through SQQ’s eyes, we don’t see the other side of the coin, we don’t see Luo Binghe, or Liu Qingge, or even Yue Qingyuan’s view on everything (which haunts me because it would be SO COOL AND INTERESTING). And they would all be such interesting topics to explore, because having Scum Villain from entirely Luo Binghe’s perspective would be a legitimate nightmare. Young and vaguely traumatised Luo Binghe being abused by his teacher, then suddenly he wakes up one day in his little woodshed and his Shizun is nice to him? And he continues to be nice to him for years? And then he pushes him into Actual Hell for no apparent reason (because at the end of the day, SQQ had gone around saying that demons were cool for years, before quick-step changing his mind the second his beloved student was one, which was ridiculous and he should be lucky LBH was only murderous for a few years because I would have done a lot worse honestly)? And then his teacher dies for him? And then comes back? And continues to sacrifice himself despite all the wrong he’s done, and you never get an explanation for it? Luo Binghe doesn’t need nor want an explanation for SQQ’s actions though, he’s content to just have his Shizun by his side.  

I found while writing my Luo Binghe analysis on his MBTI that it was seriously difficult to find good instances of characterisation simply because SQQ made everything difficult by being a blockhead about anyone and everyone. I really wanted to talk about this because SVSSS is my favourite of MXTX’s works and it deserves to be equal parts criticised and applauded for this narrative perspective. The unreliability presents a challenge to her audience, and also gives depth to the extent to which you can characterise and the extent one's head canons can prevail. I thought people would talk about this more, but I’ve only seen like 2 people ever talk about this </3 

Words: 571 

Reading time: 3 mins 

[crossdressingdeath]

to continue off of the anon talking about jc stans downplaying jc’s canon homophobia, i wonder if it’s partly because they view the homophobia present in the plot and in character behavior as a flaw of the novel rather than an integral part of the romantic conflict and character motivation

like, i’ve seen plenty of takes in this fandom around the idea that cql is ‘better’ because its world exists without homophobia (which they never acknowledge is because of censorship 😬). i’ve even seen people pass around edited versions of the translation “without the homophobia” as if removing those scenes doesn’t actually affect anything at all in the story and in our understanding of the characters.

i don’t think all jc stans or only jc stans have this take but law of large numbers there is definitely some overlap and i really think these attitudes contribute to each other. a person already predisposed to ignore the flaws of jc also gets it into their head that his homophobia isn’t even his flaw but the author’s. just another instance of horrible mxtx showing her biases :///. then they absorb this weird idea that jc’s flaws are actually a result of bias from the author and that jc himself (as if he is anything more than a literal construct made by the person they are determined to dislike) is a victim of her just truly awful thoughts :////////

Yes! It’s a big problem, where people fail to realise that a work containing something is not the same as that work supporting something. Personally I suspect that with MDZS in particular the issue is that the people making this argument have come to the conclusion that JC is the “hero” and so always right and correct; if JC is always Right And Just in the narrative and JC is homophobic, clearly we’re supposed to conclude that homophobia is Right And Just! This is, of course, incredibly stupid, but here we are. And as you say alternately they’ve decided that JC’s homophobia isn’t his flaw, it’s the author’s, because there’s no way an author could give a character a belief they don’t share or anything. There are of course other explanations for why people would hate the canon gay couple and stan the only openly, violently homophobic character who doesn’t learn better by the end of the novel while calling him their “homophobic gay king” and insisting he’s the only good gay rep, but... well, let’s not get into that.

With CQL in particular it’s... almost funny, because the subtext makes it very clear that unlike in the novel (where LWJ is punished for, y’know, treason) CQL’s LWJ is beaten for... having feelings for WWX. Meaning homophobia is in fact real and present in CQL’s universe. In fact it’s more present, even with the removal of all textual gay content meaning that all textual homophobia is also cut; remember that the Lan sect canonically isn’t homophobic, or at least is not-homophobic enough to take zero issue with their heir marrying a man beyond “Wangji why that one”. Meanwhile in CQL they’re straight-up beating him for it! And yet CQL has no homophobia in its setting? What, because it changes it so that JGY just accused MXY of harassing QS instead of going for the triple whammy of harassing his married half-brother? Because JC doesn’t outright call WWX disgusting for hugging a man? That is not how it works. Cutting the gay from everything except subtext is not the same as the setting not being homophobic!

People really do fail to realise that... the antagonists being homophobic or using homophobia to achieve their ends isn’t the same as saying that that’s a good thing? Yes, the MDZS universe contains homophobia, and it’s fine to not really enjoy a work that contains homophobia at all. But it never appears as a lasting trait in characters we’re supposed to root for, and when it appears at all in those characters it going away is an important part of their development. See JL; him going from being disgusted by WWX’s flirting with LWJ to demanding that if WWX is going to be Like That he should at least stay loyal to LWJ to just grumbling a bit over seeing his uncle being lovey-dovey is basically giving us a clear metric for his growth as a character! Honestly I’d take a work where homophobia exists in the setting but it’s clearly set up as a negative trait that only shows up in the heroes as something they need to grow out of over a work where homophobia supposedly doesn’t exist but people still seem weirded out or disgusted by gay relationships any day.

[captainkirkk]

Finished tgcf book 1! Btw reminder that you can blacklist ‘liveblogging’ if you don’t want to see these posts.

Thoughts so far:

Not sure whether it’s because this is my second translated book so I’ve adapted to the writing style, or if MXTX’s writing has improved since this is her latest novel, but I’m finding tgcf really easy to read! SVSSS bogged me down in places and I found the writing a bit clunky at times, but tgcf has been a breeze

I adore Hua Cheng. I love how he just wants to support and spoil and spend time with Xie Lian. He tells him, “Just keep doing what you want.” And also he says, “For some, that special person just existing in the world is hope.” It kills me.

We keep learning more and more about Xie Lian’s life and how fucked up it’s been. No wonder he has such a shitty concept of self worth. I mean, he’ll still defend and protect himself and I do think he still has a sense of pride (even if it’s changed over the centuries), but he’s carrying around so much guilt and believes he’s really the God of Misfortune

I wonder what Hua Cheng has been through. People keep saying that a Supreme is born from extreme suffering, but we know very little about Hua Cheng’s past. All I know is that he was the poor boy that 17yo Xie Lian caught in his first life. I wonder what happened between then and now to turn him into such a powerful Ghost King

Love the side characters! I really hope Qianqiu doesn’t turn cruel and realises why Xie Lian did the things he did. Their characters are so similar.

And Mu Qing and Feng Xin! LOVE those fools. Want to learn more about their pasts. I have a feeling they’re harboring a lottt of guilt about abandoning Xie Lian after his first banishment

The Wind Master is a bit of a tricky one, but I have to say, the way they were so quickly ride or die for Xie Lian is very good. Also genderfluid gods?? Genderfluid gods!!

As for the Emperor.... I don’t trust him as far as I can throw him (re: at all). I have a feeling he knows exactly how powerful Xie Lian is, even though Xie Lian himself doesn’t exert that power very often, and is using Xie Lian which is incredibly worrying because Xie Lian is the kind of person who would recognise he was being used and let it happen anyway, so long as no one else was being hurt too badly along the way. I mean, it sounds like they fought after Xie Lian’s second ascension, and Xie Lian even managed to stab him a few times, so he knows firsthand how powerful he is. I just can’t trust his intentions. He’s manipulating Xie Lian but I don’t know yet what his end goal is. Probably something to do with Hua Cheng. Not sure, but I’m very worried.

[ouyangzizhensdad]

I don’t mean to “pile on” or give hate for that specific take (that I have just now seen for the first time–this is what happens when one staunchly refuses to use twitter), but it is indicative of some takes I’ve seen recently about the novel (especially those which aimed to highlight what was ‘better’ about CQL) so I will use it as a springboard to share some of my thoughts on this. 

The argument that “mdzs would be better without the reincarnation” is fascinating to me because mdzs would definitely not be a better piece of fiction if the narrative was linear and stopped at wwx’s death as none of the themes and arcs would have been realised, and most of the storytelling devices MXTX uses would be rendered meaningless. Unless OP suggests that a totally different piece of fiction be written about the events of wwx’s first life, with new themes and arcs that can be fully realized by the time he dies, then it would not be a stronger piece of fiction. It might be a piece of fiction that suits their personal tastes more, which is a totally fair opinion to hold (which OP seems to suggest, ie they like the tragedy and the Yiling Laozu arc more, personally). But I have found that, within fandoms, people seem to struggle with drawing the line between what makes a piece of fiction “better” (more competent, more impactful, more creative, etc.) and what makes a piece of fiction more suited to our own personal tastes or agendas. 

Most posts I see about what people argue is “better” in CQL have generally little to do with the quality of the storytelling, how well devices are wielded, how motifs are introduced, or how complex the narrative and the themes get to be. More often than not, they will underline divergences that make CQL into a more straightforward romance with less tension, or point to Peak Romance Moments™, or refer to general goalposts that are applied to all pieces of media indiscriminately (there are more scenes with women in them!) or to other personal preferences. Which again, is fine! Totally fair! You can write about what you personally prefer in a piece of fiction! You can highlight what resonated more with you! But because it features things you like or prefer, it does not mean a work is better or stronger(as someone who has a soft stop for ‘delinquents with secret heart of gold’ I know what it means to lovingly consume middling-to-bad content). Laying on the romance during wwx’s first life, for instance, contradicts a central tension set up by the novel after his reincarnation: that is, that wwx believes that lwj hates him and refuses his help or to reveal his identity for this reason. CQL ends up wanting to have the cake and eat it too with the choices it makes, and as such, from a storytelling perspective, it handles this source of tension less successfully and introduces unresolved contradictions within its narrative. It might be a more enjoyable piece of fiction to you, but it is a weaker piece of fiction all the same because it does not fully set up this source of tension, and it simplifies the changing relationship between wwx and lwj.

Another example: Arguing, for instance, that CQL is better because the existing female characters are included in more scenes has always been interesting to me, because from a storytelling perspective, this increased inclusion often muddy or weaken their original arcs/thematic resonance (or that of other characters), or change nothing to their original impact on the events of the plot. Mianmian, I’d argue, is not better served or established or more meaningful on a thematic level because they added her in more scenes, and other characters are not better served by it either. Portraying proud Jin Zixuan, whose arc necessitates him to realize he was blinded by his pride, works a little bit less when we’re introduced to him and his best pal Mianmian (especially since Mianmian was supposed to be of very low social statuts, ie the child of a servant)–it also cheapens his choice to stand up for her in the xuanwu cave. In the novel, he’s not protecting his friend, but an unknown disciple, which makes  it the first moment in which wwx (and the audience!) gets to see a side of Jin Zixuan that shows that he is more than his pride and his upbringing, and that he can become someone worthy of JYL! It also cheapens Mianmian’s choice on a a thematic level: she was lucky enough to rise as a disciple in the novel after the sunshot campaign (we see her sitting next to a (her?) sect leader by then, which suggests her growing recognition) despite her low social status and yet she gave it all up when she realized how corrupt the cultivation world can be–having her start up as Jin Zixuan’s favorite disciple sort of changes the thematic resonance of her arc and choices in comparison with other characters in the novel. 

TLDR: I am using this confession as a springboard to share my thoughts on why saying ‘something would be “better” if X’ sort of annoys me as it often does not (or will not) differentiate between personal taste and more competent and interesting storytelling. 

this confession is regarding a post that I made like a year ago(?) saying that I think mdzs would be better without the whole wwx reincarnation thing anyway someone recently shared it in twitter and things got pretty heated. my god this fandom takes things so personally 🙄🙄 Well it seriously was not that deep, I just like angst/tragedy and I like wangxian during yiling laozu period. Okay that’s literally fucking all. Holy shit. It was just a passing thought I had. (1/2)

(If mods posted this right away it would be appreciated considering it’s a very recent thing. Thank you) 2/2