#also hope this isnt like. extremely disjointed....

[toast-in-a-cowboy-hat]

This is about to dissolve into something that's only semi-related to my original point, but this reminded me of some things I'd been thinking about, and I'm a Chronic Blabber lmao

First thing is, I didn't include this in the original post because I couldn't quite figure out how to phrase it, but I was making the post with the idea that it's a sort of a point of Contradiction for them

Like they're often so focused on Being the Original and Having the Original Person around, but also they will disregard that the second it suits them like, they save him, he is Michael to them despite the fact that Michael is most likely Not the Original Michael, therefore technically not the "real Michael" by their own standards (There's a whole other post I have in my drafts about Michael and this sort of idea, well this idea tangentially at least, but I haven't quite figured out how verbose I wanna be on that one yet lol ) All the characters have a lot of hypocrisy in the way they view and talk about/to different iterations, they will switch on a dime to whatever fit their wants and needs at the moment, and I love it, because, yeah, that's exactly how people work, malicious intent or not, it's great <3<3

Anyways the second thing is the difference between Real and Original, and the reason why I keep putting quotation marks around the word 'real' and not 'original'.

There's always an Original Version.

Original in this case, the way I take it and the way I use it just means "something serving as a model or basis for imitations or copies" or "being the first instance from which a copy, reproduction, or translation is or can be made"

Original means the source of something.

There has to be an original in order for there to be an iteration.

Iterations are the Person (or object) like a split second before (if I'm remembering everything correctly lol)

From Ep.49:

From Ep. 50:

( I think there's a 3rd scene somewhere that I'd like to inculde as well, but I don't know where right off and I don't have time to dig through 180+ episodes right now lol)

So there is an Original i.e. there's always a version that serves as the source, the basis, a version that is the Oldest, even if ultimately the age difference between all of them doesn't even total like 2 actual seconds

You can't make a copy, a duplicate, an iteration without an Original, because if there's no Original, no source, that just means that person doesn't exist.

The important thing in this case is: That doesn't make the other versions less Real.

Just because something isn't exactly the original doesn't mean it becomes not a real version.

My best example of what I mean, that I don't think I necessarily need to give, but I'm giving it because it's fun and slightly ironic, is it's like with trees.

With certain trees you can take a cutting off of the Original tree and plant it and it will grow and be Identical to the Original Tree.

Yes, there's only one Original Tree, one source where you got those cuttings, but it doesn't make the other trees Not Trees.

No one would look at a tree grown from a cutting and argue that its not a "real tree", because it is Real.

They're all still Real Trees.

They're all still Real Version of their Species, they have the same Real characteristics, the same Real makeup, they're not somehow fake version, they're still Real.

They're just not the Original.

(I wanted to give this sort of example because for any of the folks that don't know, that form of growing is called propagation... you can see why that's funny to me)

The characters seem to conflate Being the Original with Being the Real One, which means there's a lot of emphasis, a lot of importance put onto being the Original, as opposed to what it seems like generally actually matters to them, which is being Real. Obviously there's more to it than just that, there's other things that go into it, nuances and personal perspectives and opinions and experiences and consolidations and so on and so forth, but that's a different discussion and I feel like I've talked too much as it is, this's mostly just my perspective on that particular dyad, none of this is particularly important, or even really relevant to my original post, I just like talking, thank you and goodbye

You ever think about the fact that the Michael we'd had this whole time, the Michael that Base broke out of the Compound, is and was most likely just one of the various iterations and not technically the "real" Michael That the Original Michael, that one made the deal with Ty, that walked into the Compound willing to be experimented on to try to keep everyone safe, most likely never left and probably died there?

[picnokinesis]

In Campervan does River wish that she and the Doctor would have rekindled their relationship when she visited her in 2018? Or does she know that it isnt right/healthy for her/the two of them?

This is so interesting actually - let me explain what happened here. So, picture the Doctor, I think a couple of weeks post-train crash, who has got pretty much most of her memories back that she's going to get back, but a lot of them are still like...disjointed? She's read through her email chain with O, and Grace has gotten her to map out everything that she can remember roughly year by year, and she realises that she's got some big blank spots - namely, everything before 2002 skksks, but also some other points, such as the one around 2010. And, from O's emails + reading back through her old text conversations on her phone with River, she figures that River is probably from the 2010 blindspot. And so she just.....texts her. And I'm pretty sure she just says 'hi' and River probably nearly drops her phone, but then says 'hello sweetie' - and then the Doctor just says 'I need to see you', because she's awful. And explains nothing.

And so then - well, ofc River agrees. But she obviously does NOT know about the amnesia - I reckon that the Doctor was putting her money on the memories being triggered as soon as she sees River, but it doesn't WORK, and so she's just stood on her doorstep like.....having to admit that she has no idea who River is. Which is obviously awful for everyone involved. So then, for River.....she probably did hope for something. Whether that was being able to have another shot at what they had, or just straight up being back in the Doctor's life again in any capacity, I'm not sure. Probably both, to be honest. But as soon as she finds out about the amnesia, she completely loses hope in the relationship thing. Like, she can't hope for that when the Doctor doesn't even know her. Even though, arguably, they COULD have a go of it - but the Doctor is only just coming to grips with who she is herself, let alone doing anything like starting a relationship - of which she has extremely limited experience in anyway, namely because she didn't even completely understand how she felt about anything when she DID have all her memories, let alone now. If it were going to happen, the Doctor would need to get settled with herself first. The other issue ofc is that post-amnesia Doc still has a lot of the issues that pre-amnesia Doc had...only, she doesn't know that they're there until they raise their ugly head, and she has no context for them. Which is just going to make it really difficult to deal with for both of them, if they tried. And it wouldn't be impossible, but with River knowing what the Doctor was like BEFORE all this...she knows it wouldn't be a good idea. And also wouldn't be fair on the Doctor, unless she wanted it too? Like, wanting to have a relationship again when River has all this context and the Doctor has none of it? It's exactly why the stuff with Koschei has thrown her so much - he knows everything and she knows nothing.

There's still a lot of complicated feelings there, though. The Doctor's amnesia is actually pretty upsetting for River (esp since it was kind of sprung on her SKKSKS like, it's definitely a parallel to the way the Doctor doesn't know her at all in the Library episodes in the show). After the Doctor leaves, River actually sends her a song for her mixtape, and it's Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls. But - I won't go into it too much more because you'll get some more about River from the Doctor's pov in a few weeks time!