#all this to say. we are all incredibly susceptible to propaganda- especially from those we view as authority figures

[mars-ipan]

you guys ever think about the milgram shock experiments? i think about the milgram shock experiments a lot. they feel kinda relevant right now for some reason. hm

[olivieblake]

I want to thank you for taking so much time with me, I have in some ways been unfair in regards to my grandmother (you and the others reading this may not think so lol) she did not vote trump in 2016 so she's not lost to magaville she's in her 80's and very susceptible to propaganda but she loves to talk to me and is open to learning. She hates the way the right treats people like AOC in regards to making them seem less cause they were working class she supports things like SNAP and M4A

and doesn't like that the GOP doesn't support those types of things. Anyway long point is long but thanks to your patience I was able to go back to her prepared and explain the issues she is being told are simple are quite nuanced, !!! I knew that abortion laws hurting people who miscarry wouldn't sit well with her, between that and the arguments you used with your grandpa especially the false prophets we really came to an understanding that trump causes far more harm than he could ever fix. omg yay so yes I want to thank you, I don't judge people for cutting off people for political reasons I appreciate you not writing off my grandma who needed someone to sit and have a real conversation with her, like I said she's in her 80's she's not on social media she only knows what the news and daystar say otherwise you know? also people who pretend they had visions from God about trumps holy purpose or w/e I may not know they're fakes for sure but they are harmful and I think they suck anyway 🙃

oh what INCREDIBLE news!! I’m happy to know she wasn’t too far gone and OVERJOYED to hear you were willing and able to have a real conversation with her about these issues. I think it was AOC who said that everyone has a voter in their lives who only they can get through to, and I’m so pleased you put in the effort. very exciting to have your grandma on the team! while you’re right that some people cannot be moved (constant misinformation and propaganda is very powerful) there are still definitely those who can, and what a blessing to have that faith confirmed at such a complex and chaotic time. happy for you both! and for me/all women tbh, phew, close call

[lazuliblur]

Hello. When I found your blog, I pegged you as someone who had a rather deep understanding of what Team Minato's members were like, based on your posts. I wanna ask you opinion, if you don't mind. Madara's expert brainwashing aside, do you think Obito is weak for giving up what he believed in because of the event of Rin's death? And do you think he is weak for abandoning the Moon's Eye Plan after everything with Naruto?

Hey there! First off, omg! Let me just say that you are a super talented artist and I’m in awe of your expressive style, but I still haven’t quite forgiven you for crushing my heart to bits with those beautiful team Minato drawings of yours from a few days back! ❤

Secondly, ahhhh, I don’t know that my understanding is all that deep. I just love these kids and identify with Obito in a way that I’m not sure is entirely medically advisable, so I also have a very personal opinion about them. You’re welcome to agree or disagree with it. I’d love to hear your own take on the subject!

I don’t really know about weakness/strength. You can define those traits in so many different ways. Strength is most often associated with resillience and steadfastness, but sometimes it takes more strength to change than to remain as you are, so that doesn’t work as a definition. Strength can mean folding and weakness can be standing your ground when change is the preferable action, but who’s to say what’s right or wrong (especially in the Naruto world where every one of these guys, even the so-called cinnamon rolls like Minato, have extremely skewed moral views)? I prefer to think of characters in terms of how good they are at following through with what they believe is right and in terms of how justified/coherent/sensible their reasoning for considering something “right” is. That’s what I’ll consider strength in my answer. That said, let the magic of the read more cut begin because this got long.

Was Obito weak for losing faith in the world after Rin died? Well, let’s face it: Obito is not the most refined thinker. He has a tendency to exaggerate and think of the world in extreme terms. (Uchiha’s “curse of hatred” at work right there. These guys have zero chill, they just feel things too damn much, too damn deep!) Rin’s his best friend, so she’s “his one light in the darkness”. Kakashi and he don’t always get along, so they’re “like water and oil”. The shinobi system is broken, so clearly the only thing to do must be to raze it down to subbasement levels and start anew with something completely different!

When you think about all the things that Obito did after becoming Madara, putting aside for a moment the fact that his deeds were incredibly reprehensible from a moral standpoint, you have to admit that Obito accomplished so much. He was tireless. That was pure strength and unwavering determination. Because Obito is the kind of guy who, once he gets something in his head, follows through with it.

Obito, like Kakashi and every other kid in Konoha in their generation (and those before), was a child soldier. Naruto’s generation, the offspring of these child soldiers, the first to not have to worry about going to war in the history of Konoha, were spoiled by comparison. We have no way of knowing what kind of methods Konoha used to prepare these kids before dumping them in the middle of a battlefield, but it could not have been pretty. (Minato admires A for acting like a “true assassin” ffs!) Indoctrination is a pretty staple procedure, so we can assume that happened. Propaganda is also standard during war time. It helps people feel better about themselves if they paint the enemies that they’re going to have to kill as little more than animals and devils.

My point is that, by the time Obito went out to Kannabi Bridge, Konoha had already sufficiently motivated him to want to change the world and make it a better place. He wanted to do it from within Konoha (by becoming Hokage) because he believed with his whole heart that his village was a good place (see: indoctrination). He also wanted to do this with his friends beside him (when he wakes next to Madara, one of the first things he says is that he’s glad that his teamwork with Kakashi is going to improve now that they share sharingan).

Madara chipped away at Obito’s beliefs and forced him to let go of the rose-tinted lenses with which he perceived Konoha, so that he wouldn’t want to return home or keep the village as it was. Madara made a nihilist out of Obito using nothing but logic. He posed the question: if not for Konoha, would your friends have been in that dangerous situation? And the only answer to that was no. Then Madara used the fact that Obito was accustomed to Konoha asking him to sacrifice himself for the good of others to ask him to do the exact same thing for himself.

In a way, Madara did Obito a favour by breaking him out of that close-minded way of thinking that Konoha could do no wrong. Freedom of thought and child soldiers are not two things that typically go well together, you know? On the other hand, Madara took advantage of the mindset that Konoha had instilled in Obito to get him to do what he wanted without Obito realising it.

I believe that Obito showed strength here. He became convinced that the world needed to be made better and he sacrificed himself – his identity, his nature, his connection to his remaining friends – to make sure that it happened.

Obito was not weak for opening his eyes and seeing the world for what it truly was. He was a little weak in accepting Madara’s Moon’s Eye Plan as the only way to fix it. That was naïve of him. However: he was a child soldier who was just learning to think for himself. It would be unreasonable to expect him to be able to start thinking about everything at once. He had to take baby steps. (Besides, he eventually started to add his own changes to the pre-established plan, diverging from Madara’s orders and showing that he didn’t necessarily agree with everything that Madara said.)

What does that amount to? I don’t know. As far as I’m concerned, he was both strong and weak here, but he went on to build himself into a strong character over this weakness.

Regarding Obito’s abandonment of the Moon’s Eye Plan after Naruto’s Talk no Jutsu… I’ll be honest. I hate that so much that I rage quit the manga when it happened. I only picked it back up because a friend told me that Obito was doing awesome things with Kakashi and that Rin had made some sort of comeback. And, yes, seeing Obito and Kakashi fight side by side one more time was cool, but… it just wasn’t the same. That wasn’t the Obito I’d come to know any more. His character was done a huge disservice at the end there. The overall story’s need to make Naruto the saviour robbed Obito of the ending he deserved. I would have liked Obito to reach a compromise with Naruto et al. that was like ��ok, Madara’s methods are messed up, I see that now, but I have valid questions that will be addressed after we’re done taking him out.”

(Because Obito didn’t really like Madara, you can tell. My guess is that Obito would have rathered bring the old man back to life just before casting the genjutsu, so that Madara could have his happy ending, but no chance to interfere with Obito’s plans. At least, he didn’t seem thrilled that Madara was brought back as an Edo Tensei.)

I get why the plot required Naruto’s TnJ to work and I get why Naruto had to be the one who changed Obito’s mind (because he’s the freaking messiah who can never fail!!one), even though Naruto had no connection to Obito and they were nothing alike aside from the fact that they were lonely as children and wanted to be Hokage (FOR TOTALLY DIFFERENT REASONS!!one *ahem*) Kakashi’s the one who should have had that conversation with Obito (and I will forever be salty that Naruto 100% shut down Kakashi’s attempt to do just that when they first unmasked Obito).

I also understand that Obito was emotionally worn down by this point. He sought out Naruto during the 5 Kage meeting to reaffirm his purpose, so, yeah, Obito had doubts and he took that moment to assure himself that he was on the right path. Naruto was too stupid/concerned about Sasuke to realise that this was his chance to have a heart to heart with Obito and talk him out of his plan before anyone else died, and Kakashi was too much of a ninja, focused on his one job – to kill the enemy/protect Naruto – to consider it a possibility. Towards the end, Obito was also tired from fighting Kakashi and dealing with Kabuto. It’s at the moment right before a plan comes together that it is most frail and most susceptible to falling apart.

Anyway, Obito started out the war stronger and more committed than ever before: he had triple checked himself to make sure that his cause was right and no one had been able to deny that the ninja system was messed up. Even the good guys (barring Naruto), while talking amongst themselves, were all kinda “yeah, well, uhm, yeah, someone should do something about that”. Due to the plot’s need to make Naruto look strong, though, Obito had to be made weak, even though this volte face went entirely against his character. You do not spend years committing horrible acts that contradict your nature (Obito’s true nature was kind) because you feel that there is a problem that needs fixing, only to turn around at the last moment and let a 5 minute conversation with a stranger convince you that that issue you were so desperate to correct never needed addressing in the first place.

Bottom line, Obito was a strong character made weak at the very end by shounen plot requirements (though if Fullmetal Alchemist has taught us anything is that you don’t need to sacrifice character to have a satisfying ending and genre is no excuse for poorly executed plot).