#again i reiterate i don't say these things to try to sway people on characters they don't like lol but just to reinforce the complexity of

[trashlie]

FP 202

There’s just a couple last thoughts I’d like to spit out before we move to 203, if I can, and this one in particular is something I didn’t get a chance to get to in my last post, one that I think both embodies the overall theme of ILY and I think hints at things to come yet. 

“Everyone’s got their own struggles. No matter how good you may think they have it. Remember that.” 

Shimhan’s words to Shinae in the hospital are significant because they demonstrate one of, if not the core, message that ILY has been telling us from the start. Even though it looks like some people may appear to have the good lives, are afforded better opportunities than you, even if on the outside everything appears to be well and good, more often than not this is not true. We all have struggles we must deal with, we all have personal burdens that we may not show to others. 

In the case of ILY, some of these are obvious. Shinae and Shimhan’s struggles are very overt and open - but as the timeline progresses, Shimhan attempts to keep it all together and pretend that his struggles are not nearly as bad as they really are. To us as readers, but not immediately to Shinae or even his friends, Nol’s struggles are apparent. Though he does a good job of keeping up a facade and hiding it all away, no one really knew just what goes on under the surface, what all he has endured and suffered through. 

But moreso, we see it true for all of the characters. Kousuke is a shining example: he has a good job, makes good money, he appears to be the favored son (or at least he certainly is by Yui), he is considered a gentleman and a most eligible bachelor. But Kousuke certainly has his own struggles, though he’s not opened himself up to them and Hansuke is one of the only characters to really key in on it. Kousuke has dealt with a lot of emotional neglect that has absolutely impacted his ability to deal with people and read and understand emotions - including his own. He has a nasty habit of repressing things and trying to compartmentalize things, attempting to apply logic to very illogical matters. The kind of neglect he suffered as a child manipulated the man he’s grown up to become, and he’s been so blinded by his quest for Rand’s favor that he’s unable to see what it’s done to him. Kousuke’s troubles are compartmentalized, shoved away in neat little boxes where he can continue to try to ignore them, but that doesn’t mean he lacks them.

Alyssa, too, lives up to this example, and Shinae actually touches on this. I think it’s something we may see more of, whether or not it’s through introspective Shinae in this flashback, or older and maybe just a little wiser current Shinae. To Shinae, Alyssa had everything she wanted: an intact family with a doting mother who spoils hers, a room full of books and portraits and expensive make up and sheet music and instruments, parents who are so involved in her life they border on suffocating, so many educational opportunities, skills Shinae can only dream of. It’s easy to look at the affluent and go “What can possibly suck about your life?” when they have all the things that could make your life easier. For Shinae, who fees lonely and maybe even neglected by how very busy her father is, the idea of parents who are so involved and so-ever present doesn’t seem like a bad thing, but to be the person who is smothered by a family that leaves you no real chances to try things out for yourself, it’s not a dream. In fact, there’s probably an argument to be made that because they seemed to be so involved in her life and she lacked connections with kids her age, this is largely a reason she isn’t good at interpersonal relationships and cannot deal with confrontation or disappointing people. It was probably born of a fear of disappointing her parents (especially when they make such efforts to meet her interests, which then can lead her to feeling guilty if she doesn’t follow through) that grew and expanded until it became what it has. 

But more than that, I think we’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Alyssa and the struggles she’s dealing with. The potential of sexuality especially comes into question here, because what a struggle that is to hide and bury deep down, right? But we also have seen enough hints to know that her home life is not as idyllic as it looks and I am willing to bet that, much like Kousuke, the manner of Alyssa’s upbringing has absolutely affected the way she developed emotionally. Though Alyssa is a clever and intelligent girl, it’s kind of like book smarts vs street smarts. She lacks the experience and understanding to know how to deal with interpersonal relationships and very complex feelings, especially laced with deep-set fears. I think something worth remembering about Alyssa is that the kind of fear she feels isn’t just something casual you can brush off. In the same way that Shinae struggled to open up to people because of the number of times she’s been burned and how hard it was to let her trust and rely on others, I think Alyssa’s fears are also deeply ingrained and are something she needs to work heavily through to deal with. I don’t say this to dismiss her actions and behaviors, but just to reinforce that she is merely a product of her environment, and to reiterate that I think this will be a running theme with Alyssa through the story, when we finally learn more about her. Especially now that Alyssa is entering adulthood and has an idol career, I think we will find a lot more about the struggles she’s dealing with, even though to Shinae, it looks like she has everything and that her life is as neat and tidy as Shinae wishes hers was. 

Rand, too, is nothing but struggles. Beyond the obvious Yui vs Rand, we’ve definitely seen it alluded to that Rand has lost a lot of things in life - and many of them seemingly by his own hand. It feels very hinted at that Rand was in love with Nol’s mom, and that his relationship with Yui is much like a prison. We’ve seen moments of him attempting to parent Kousuke, only to be shadowed by Yui who undermined him at every opportunity. I think it was probably Rand’s intention to try to keep Nol safe, but the ways he attempted it were so abhorrently bad he did worse damage than had he maybe sent Nol away. I think in time we’ll find deeper struggles confirmed - that perhaps Rand wanted to be a better parent but it put Nol in danger or something. 

And Yui, too, surely has her own struggles. My personal theory remains that love and romance were never really something Yui wanted. I think she ultimately wants to be powerful and in a society that favors men probably disdains the situation she’s in. I still believe at this time that marriage to Rand was meant to provide her the means to be the shadow ruler she really wants to be - the person who is actually in charge, but unable to be in title and name, and because of this she’s taken it out on others. I imagine, too, if we ever learn more about her own upbringing, we will learn of plenty of struggles. 

It’s such a simple line, but I think it tells us a lot about how we are supposed to interpret the events of ILY - that nothing has ever been simply what it was at face value to us, that there is always another side of the story. Our own personal struggles and journeys affect our interactions, and we will continue to see that play out in ILY. No matter how good someone’s situation seems, never forget everyone has their own struggles, everyone is saddled with their own burdens, and though it may not excuse their behavior, it will at least explain it. 

[obfuscobble]

Passerby here - in regards to Fate/Grand Order, the reason they don't explain stuff in detail is because they kind of already did? The Fuyuki prologue in the actual mobile game is a longer, more in-depth tutorial, while the anime is an hour-long film. They can't do EVERYTHING in the short time slot they have. Also, the "explanation on Servants" thing is something repeated in every adaption and spinoff and just gets very redundant after a while, so it getting cut is understandable.

Also, arguing that they HAVE to explain EVERYTHING for newbies within the short 1 hour time slot for the F/GO anime is nonsensical considering the setting of Fuyuki - everything and everyone in Fuyuki (such as the statue Medusa Lancer destroys) only has significance if you’re familiar with Fate/stay night proper, and explaining EVERYTHING would waste time, especially since the premise of “Chaldea has no idea what originally happened in Fuyuki” makes explanation impossible anyway. Basically, you’re treating the Fate/Grand Order anime like some sort of standalone story, when in reality it’s more like the Rogue One to Fate/stay night’s mainline Star Wars, or the Fantastic Beasts to Harry Potter. Even if it’s a spinoff, demanding that it explain everything all over again is pointless and would detract from the plot given the very limited timespan, especially when the premise IS so heavily based in past installments. I hope you understand my points here.

I perfectly understand your points, but please keep in mind that you are making the exact same points as your predecessor which I have already rebuffed politely by reiterating my points of debate.  I thank you for trying to state this case in more detail again, but my counter points remain solid and admittedly mired in my initial reactions to the material.  The strength of my initial negative reactions is what prompted me to write my post, and upon re-view of the film, my problems with its structure, choreography, and colour design remain.

If I may attempt to restate your points, trying hard not to make a strawman : 1. there’s more info on everything in the game, 2. there’s more explanation of everything in the rest of the Nasuverse media, 3. this is for fans who already know everything and trying to explain too much in a short one hour featurette would be wasteful, 4. this should absolutely not be viewed in a standalone manner.

1. there’s more info on everything in the gameI understand this.  But the movie was, as I was approaching it, supposed to get me pumped to play the game had I not already done so.  It did not.

2. there’s more explanation of everything in the rest of the Nasuverse mediaI understand this.  But it doesn’t defend against bad story structure.

3. this is for fans who already know everything and trying to explain too much in a short one hour featurette would be wastefulI contend this.  Allow me to voice my contention in two manners, one polite, and one rude.Politely: Fans who enjoy this are absolutely deserving of their enjoyment, and as a fan placation vehicle this movie is certainly fantastic.  I do not want to rid anyone of their enjoyment of this featurette.  People should hold on to their joy where they can find it. : )  However, I still believe that a shortened running length was not truly a bar to cut out all explanation.  I’m not expecting someone to dump typemoon.wikia.com onscreen.  I was simply stating that within the world that the movie itself created with a protagonist who knows nothing and a fresh new aspect of the Nasuverse being presented, that a tiiiny bit more explanation would have been completely natural to present within the storytelling framework of the brand new setting.  To fully explain Servant structure and the history of Fuyuki is not necessary.  To explain more about Chaldaea and how it interacts with these structures is highly desirable.  That Fuyuki is a mystery to Chaldaea is absolutely fine and a good mystery to hook the audience.  That Chaldaea remains a complete mystery to the audience, apart from clichés that the audience can place upon it through inference, is unforgivable.Rudely: yeah I get it they made a pretty movie out of your waifus look at your waifus in good animation happy new year nasufans here’s a tv special to sell more nasushit including 5000 yen dvds but it’s worth it because WOW YOUR WAIFU she’s moving and going UGUU this is such a CATHARTIC pandering MOMENT you can’t wait to heal her with YOUR MAGIC RITUAL YA KNOW WHAT IM SAYIN[* “your waifu“ in this case referring to the fandom at large, not you specifically, holdharmonysacred, as I do not wish to make assumptions about you.]

4. this should absolutely not be viewed in a standalone manner.You bring up a comparison of Fate/ Grand Order to Rogue One and Fantastic Beasts.  Here is where I very much would like to make more comparisons, as I have seen those movies and their attendant series as well!  However, first it is important to keep in mind that whether one chooses to view a film as a standalone vehicle or as a chapter of a larger narrative is up to the individual viewer.  Yet, ask any good author or script editor and they will tell you that the internal story of a feature should hold itself as a standalone story with good arc structure.  While it’s true that Grand Order had a proper arc structure (problem, mysterious anomaly; action, fight to stop anomaly; resolution, bad guy temporarily wins, time to steel ourselves to do this again), I feel that it failed to present a story that an outsider could care about.

Honestly, Rogue One also failed to impress me as a standalone vehicle.  It was infinitely more pandering than Grand Order, although at least it didn’t leave too many questions unanswered.  Largely, it had more running time to establish its world, which Grand Order did not have.  What Rogue One had in common with Grand Order was a dearth of likeable protagonists.   At least the motivations of Rogue One’s antagonists are clear though, unlike R.E.O. Lev’s.

Fantastic Beasts actually worked as a standalone film.  Parts of it that connected directly to the Potter storyline [erhem, Grindelwald] were frankly its worst aspects.  Yet apart from that, the movie clearly established through its action and a bit of exposition the stakes of its world.  There are wizards and magical beasts and non-wizards, the wizards try to hide from the non-wizards, never the twin shall meet, and in America magical beasts are not allowed to run free in non-wizard areas.  The audience doesn’t have to know about rulings of the wizengamot or the history of wizarding in America to appreciate these in-story rules.  Magic is shown throughout the movie, and major magical plot points like the obscurial are explained, though not exactly perfectly.  But a bully attempt is made.  One can watch Fantastic Beasts without knowledge of the Potterverse and still follow its structure while appreciating its characters who are presented with definite emotional ties and stakes in the movie.  It’s not an outstanding movie, but it does very well to establish the basics of its world.

On the other hand, I maintain that Fate/ Grand Order failed to firmly establish the very basic internal rules that its world runs by either through exposition or onscreen action, preferring to hint at them, and that its characters were flat, especially the main character who could have been replaced with a soggy cardboard cutout for all it would have mattered. 

I understand that the main character of this movie is supposed to be an audience insert surrogate, and a standin for an in-game protagonist, but that’s honestly no excuse for having him be void of emotional reaction to anything in the world around him except Mash.  Mash is hurt?  Oh noes, she’s pretty and talked to me so I guess we’re dating and now I’m upset.  I’ve been transported to some techno-magic base? Oh well.  Everyone else here has died en masse?  Oh well.  Now I’m in the past and things are attacking me?  Oh well.  That girl just died? Oh well.  The guy who was nice to me turns out to be evil and he has some weird plan to do with wiping out the entire human race?  OH WELL.  I’m not asking for him to scream or anything, but the most proactive action he took in the entire movie to move the plot forward was to hold Mash’s hand in her climactic battle, and even then he did so blandly, not even a “ganbatte” or a “You mean a lot to me so don’t give up.”  Every other scene where he took an action, he had stumbled into that place or been pushed there by other characters or the plot at large.  The guy fell asleep during the one scene that would have explained shit to him and therefore us.  How are we supposed to like him as a protagonist?

In conclusion, I do indeed understand the points you laid out in your asks, but feel that I have previously responded to most of them.  Of the new concerns you bring up, my previous complaints about Fate/ Grand Order still hold sway.  And yet, I do not at all wish to say that people should feel bad for liking Fate/ Grand Order.  My stance is that I did not enjoy it, and it failed the rubric by which I was watching it.  You state that my rubric is flawed, and that is a fair enough criticism.  Please continue to enjoy the Fate/ universe and the Grand Order game.  I hope they all bring you lots of continued enjoyment in the coming year!