#adventures !!! the most notable ones are in the fantasy genre (like D&D and Pathfinder) but they can exist for any genre (modern fantasy)

[ilovettrpgs]

What's ttrpgs?

I just stared at my screen like this

[utilitycaster]

Been burning through the third campaign of NADDPOD recently off of your recommendation and it's been incredible. Though it has made me think of what exactly makes its callbacks and references to the previous campaign work so well compared to C3. As you pointed out in your post about the podcast, they share more than a few similarities. I'd guess that the lighter tone overall helps quite a bit, though the Irondeep Saga and Hardwon's return to the adventuring life is genuinely very effective!

To me, most if not all of C3's returning characters and callbacks were self-aggrandizing and distracting. The initial return to Whitestone for Laudna especially.

I have not finished NADDPOD's C3 yet so maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I was just wondering if you had any insight on why it just, works better than its counterpart? Also, big fan of the blog! Your meta post have kept me sane during the various errands that Bells Hells half heartedly accomplish.

So I do want to note my issue with Whitestone and Laudna's resurrection isn't so much seeing Percy and Vex and Pike and Keyleth; it's much more that having that available so early cut off some notable opportunities in Marquet. Going to Jiana would have probably made the Delilah issue much more of a factor (since I doubt anyone she'd have known would have been a L20 cleric familiar with Delilah), would have done interesting things for Ashton's story, and would have kept the party on the continent and in the city, possibly spending more time with Eshteross and maybe even giving them an additional chance to encounter Otohan in person. In retrospect this could have fixed like five different things. I actually found that the previous character callbacks were one of the strongest elements and increasingly I also feel the original NPCs of C3, Otohan and Ozo aside, while few and far between, would have been great if Bells Hells like, cared about them and spent time with them.

I think the more important part is that Murph is not trying to wrap up an overarching plot across multiple campaigns; he's simply telling, well, the campaign after the campaign. He was pretty clear about that in the initial discussions for NADDPod C3 - it's heavily influenced by the decisions in the initial Bahumia campaign but like, the plot isn't to end the astral plane god-battles that set off; it's to save Bahumia from Mothership (and those two factions evolve to have other implications, but the core conflict is introduced early and remains as is). Now, I also think that having a smaller party that is generally absolutely fearless when it comes to decision-making is an important part and they deserve credit (just as, while I think Matt's errors were most significant for C3's issues, the cast's waffling and fear of picking the wrong choice is a factor - even a "wrong" choice would have been better in most cases), but a lot of it is that it's a pretty standard D&D style plot executed well. (This would be another really long post but I really do think D&D can handle a range of plots and genres, but it's still a limited range of plots and genres, and if you try to subvert it, as people increasingly try to do, it will not reward you for cleverness but rather backfire. I don't think C3 tries to subvert D&D nor do I think D&D is the problem here; also just to stave off dumb comments, Pathfinder has the same exact limitations and Daggerheart likely will have very similar ones - this is about a combat-skills-forward fantasy game with level progression in general of which D&D is the most prominent but by no means only example. However since I just answered about Neverafter, while that's not the question, I think Murph has a particularly good understanding of what D&D can do.)

I think it's a few things but I think one reason Murph has such a track record is first, he identifies pretty strongly as a comedy writer, though he's also obviously a performer; secondly, he is as far as I can tell cautious and surly and he came to TTRPGs as an adult; and thirdly, two major influences he has that others tend not to cite are gaming and wrestling, and I really think this is important.

I think as a writer, he tends to have a good sense of narrative and where things have to go. That doesn't mean there aren't unexpected turns, but I think he does a good job of planning for contingencies and having a confident hand in turning the story back. And again, I think having a 3-person party makes it easier to get back on the rails (or to build a new track very quickly) but I think he, to quote a truly stupid but not entirely wrong self-help quote, begins with the end in mind.

The cautiousness and surliness are in my opinion the secret to NADDPod. Look. Niceness is, well, nice, though Brennan has a great bit that I watched recently and have since forgotten the source of about how kindness and niceness are two separate concepts. I think Murph is really willing to tell his players "No" and I think it is always to his benefit. I think making your players explain what they want to do, or being willing to turn your player's riffing into something that might not be their intention (Sol and Albie and the whole reveal that the Academy made everyone feel like a hero while essentially churning out manufactured duos stands out to me) is important. I don't want to say every home game should have this because it shouldn't - if you are playing at home casually and just want to make your friends feel like the coolest people ever, you don't have to do this! But if you are an actual play show you should be telling a story, and to tell a good story you do have to kill a few darlings and make a few edits, and Murph is willing to do that and Matt is sometimes too generous for his own good to the detriment of story (and, imo, I think it's ultimately less rewarding for the players in the long run much of the time too!)

And thirdly, games and wrestling. Now I am obviously no expert in games, but from a complete beginner's perspective, something that keeps striking me is how many people become affronted when the side quests (or, more accurately, ignoring the side quests) impact the main quest in significant ways, even though it's simply good writing to have side quests that enhance your understanding of the main quest and make you stronger or better able to approach it because of your experiences. This is in fact one of the biggest reasons why C3 is so weak, and one of the reasons why I think NADDPod is consistently strong. And then as for wrestling: I am even less of an expert here, but wrestling requires clear storytelling and especially clear motivations, (hard to be subtle in that medium) and story told primarily through combat that better have a great conclusion. It's also, notably, a remarkably unpretentious thing to be into, even though it's popular with a lot of nerds (Danielle Radford is the guest from last week; Ify's a wrestling fan as well). As a result, I think Murph isn't afraid to be blunt and unsubtle in service of actually making something good and entertaining and cohesive, instead of trying to say something deep and failing. Because nothing crashes to the ground and burns than trying to say something deep and failing. I mean I love pretentiousness, but I know when to drop it, and I think NADDPod on the whole does too.