#actually i guess it wasn't rly an answer because there wasn't rly a question. we're having high-minded debates in the literary salon lol

[superfallingstars]

Personally I think jily is supposed to be idealized (like how James and lily were idealized) to Harry. James gets knocked of his pedestal in swm and so does jily by Harry questioning if his father forced his mother into marriage. Later when talking to lupin and Sirius James and Jily get a slight defense and Harry is back to feeling alright but with the knowledge that things weren’t perfect.

I personally don’t read Jily as abusive (even though I read James as being abusive to snape at school, but I don’t think that violent, physical behavior was extended to Lily) but I definitely don’t read them as a “good” couple (whatever that means). I think you can read it in many different ways given there is so little of them and I think an interpretation that their relationship wasn’t the healthiest is perfectly plausible with the scant information we’re given.

Yeahhhh that’s probably what JKR intended. James and Lily are the fridged parents who are dearly mourned and missed, and as a result, their flaws are completely smoothed over in everyone’s memories. But in Snape’s Worst Memory, Harry learns the hard lesson that things aren’t always what they seem, and that nobody is perfect, not even his dead father. Hurrah.

My problem with this is that I think it’s very boring, LOL. Like it really is probably exactly what JKR intended (given her middle-of-the-road takes on every moral and political question that happens in these books), but man, it feels like such a cop out. James basically ruins Snape’s life for no reason, and the conclusion we’re meant to draw from this is just, well, people are complicated! NO!!!! Bad answer!!! Like, Snape also did some terrible things, but at least he spends a ton of pages actively suffering/atoning for his sins. But James, on the other hand, is only somewhat implied to have changed maybe slightly a little bit somewhere off-page, and we just have to take #1 James Potter fanboy Sirius Black and serial understater Remus Lupin at their word. So if James was supposed to be “redeemed” – or even just excused – wow, it really doesn't work for me. You can't go as dark as "protagonist questions if his father forced his mother into marriage" and then just brush it off like no big deal, Joanne! And it’s so frustrating, because all it would've taken to fix this would've been to show James being a good person instead of just telling the reader that he was one (proof: trust me?). Ugh.

So because of all that, I agree that from what we’re given, it’s quite difficult to read Jily as “good.” We rarely see them interact, and when we do, James’s behavior is wayyyy too similar to the trope of “terrible guy eventually gets the girl even though she seems to hate him with every fiber of her being because his persistence and not taking no for an answer is just toooo romantic to resist.” Which sucks, lol. It feels like JKR is basically being like, “eh, James was young and dumb, whatever” and giving him a huge out for all the grief he caused Snape (and Lily, for that matter) – and she expects that the reader will agree that that is a legitimate excuse for his behavior, and by extension think that it's reasonable for Lily to forgive and eventually marry him. And man, I am just not sure if that is enough to convince me. (And evidently, I'm not alone, considering the “Jily is abusive” meta post that likely sparked this ask!)

With that said, I agree that it’s a stretch to say that James was abusive (or even implied to be abusive) toward Lily. It’s not a completely unfounded take – it could probably be written well in a fic, and even be canon compliant – but you would really have to extrapolate that dynamic from the little information we’re given (as you pointed out). And more importantly (at least, re: that meta), I don't think JKR intended that interpretation at all.

Personally, I just don’t think it makes sense for the narrative for James and Lily to have been in an abusive relationship. And by the narrative, I mean Harry. If Jily is an abusive (or even just bad) relationship, that would have massive ramifications for the way Harry sees his parents. Ideally he would have to come to terms with that at some point – I don’t think it makes sense for James’s and Lily’s relationship to have been this way and not have significantly affected Harry – but imo JKR clearly does not want to deal with that. Like you said, the point of SWM – aside from foreshadowing Lily and Snape’s relationship – was to knock James off his pedestal and basically go, See, nobody’s perfect. <3 And the story is not interested in engaging with James’s behavior on a level any deeper than that lol. Which ok, I don’t love it, but if we’re not going to spend time dealing with morally gray James, then it doesn’t make sense for him to be even more morally gray (or rather, have him fall face first over the line into becoming a downright despicable person) by making him abusive toward Lily.

So that's my Doylist analysis: no way in hell did JKR intend Jily to be an abusive relationship, but she also didn't do a good enough job defending and/or redeeming James after SWM, so we're just left to speculate about how much he really changed. Still, I don't think "JKR is a bad writer" is a very satisfying answer. After all, the only reason that I'm engaging with this text in the first place is because I'm a fan of it, so I think it's also worth looking at it from a Watsonian perspective – or at least, to accept the events of the book as they're written and try to fill in the blanks. (Imo so much of the fun of fandom is trying to fill in those blanks in a satisfying way, to expand upon a character and try to reach a more interesting conclusion than the author did... And I would be remiss not to mention that, because it undoubtedly influences the way that I (and probably also you, if you're on this side of tumblr) engage with the text.)

So for me, as a Marauders era fan, I’m faced with: ok, I don’t really like the idea of these two characters together, but they canonically got together, and I think the story is better because they got together, and it’s better if they genuinely like each other, and it all had to happen somehow – so how can I explain it in a way that both makes sense with the story and is satisfying to me? And my answer to that is twofold.

First, I imagine that James was not always quite such an awful guy (as in, not always as showy, combative, and cruel as he was in SWM). After all, there is a glimmer of goodness in him when he chooses to save Snape’s life during the Prank, revealing that somewhere deep down, he does in fact have a moral compass. And second, I think that he has to have changed. And I mean a genuine change – one that might not have resulted in completely different behavior (after all, he was still hexing Snape through his seventh year) – but regardless, something that makes him seriously reflect on his actions and reconsider his motivations. His behavior in SWM is just too inexcusable for him to get with Lily – partly because Lily is generally framed as a Very Good Person, and partly because regardless of how she is framed, James was still awful to her – without any self-reflection or growth. Of course, the problem then becomes explaining this in a satisfying way!

And I have some ideas in mind – but they’re definitely more speculation than fact, and omg this post is long enough already. Luckily, I received another ask on this topic, so I will save my self-indulgent headcanons for that.

There is one last thing I want to mention, which is (part of) my reasoning for why James may not have been such a bully all the time and why I think he has the capacity for change, and it's been nagging at me ever since I read that meta post (which again, presumably started this whole thing). I think one thing that bothers a lot of people (including me!) about James is that it seems like he chooses to pick on Snape in SWM because of Lily’s presence. He wants to show off to her, so he keeps looking over to the girls by the water, he ruffles his hair, he deepens his voice, and he tries to get her attention by targeting Snape. Following this logic, we can presume that James wouldn’t have done any of this if Lily hadn’t been there – and that’s the part that got me thinking. I have to wonder if Lily was perhaps not the only person who James wanted to impress in that scene… in fact, I think it’s incredibly likely that James would have acted differently if the Marauders hadn’t been there! (Harry has "the distinct impression that Sirius was the only one for whom James would have stopped showing off," and Sirius saying that he's bored is the inciting incident for James spotting Snape...!) Yes it’s going to be a James masculinity analysis because this is what happens every time I talk about these fucking characters apparently. So idk, stick around if you’re into that.

And of course, thank you for the ask!

[yuukei-yikes]

ah! if you're taking questions about the fankids, can i ask about what's going on about the whole reincarnation thing? (how konoha finds out, if anyone else figures it out, even how he finds out about konoha (before he died) and the whole "daze" thing in the first place. poor kid's got a lot to deal with lol)

YIPPEEEEEEEEEE <- this yippe was written before i finished writing the reply. no yippee anymore. under the cut bc i also went crazy long with this and its embarrassing and erm erm erm erm. hehe. so much mental illness i basically wrote a fic under the cut

i've actually answered this before BUT im changing my answer. when i answered that ask konoha and ayame were only like 40 hours old so now it's simmered in my head better...hehehehheheheeh <- my evil laugh because im abt to give konoha 80 mental illnesses.

so i know i linked to the old answer but if u went to read it just forget abt everything i say in there

yknow how i talked abt like overprotective parents haruka&takane in my last ask LOL i actually had a big wall of text that i deleted while answering because it was rly sad and it got super long and i was like erm. maybe another time and THEN I GOT THIS ASK AND IM LIKE BOYYY WHY DID I DELETE THE TEXT but whatever i'll just go crazy now and even more bc i can dedicate the whole space to it HEHEHEHEHHEEH

konoha is nonverbal for years and since ayano works with kids i think she knows sign language teehee and when it became obvious konoha wasn't going to speak as a kid haruka&takane are like. well. let's do that ig. mekakushi dan learning sign language arc 💖 still is nonverbal most of the time i think. if i had thought of it beforehand i would've kept it for present time JUST IMAGINE THE DOODLES I MADE THE FIRST TIME HE'S SIGNING EVERYTHING IVE DECIDED MY NEXT GEN KONOHA IS NONVERBAL. HE DICHO. CASO CERRADO

ok they're overprotective not only bc they're disabled4disabled and terrified that konoha will one day wake up and be diagnosed with u got 6 years to live type of thing but also. konoha autism swag

and when konoha becomes a toddler shit goes down. then he starts hallucinating and having all these night terrors abt stuff like hibihiyo's timeloop and reviving azami over and over while she was living in the real world but also he's a kid so he doesn't really register all this horrifying stuff the same an adult would duh. and he kind of ALWAYS saw it he just can put it into words now ig. so he's not like AUUUUGHHH he's more like.. confused and scared. he's also not super communicative and i dont mean that bc he's nonverbal like even if he is, he still speaks through signs!! but he's still kind of quiet and slow and etc. like he IS konoha yknow?? he's just like playing and hanging out and suddenly just sees azami and he's like erm mom can u tell the lady in the corner to go away :(( and takane's like LOL. GET IN THE FUCKING CAR. he just gets diagnosis or derivations to other doctors and a child therapist etc and its not wrong bc HE IS completely human now and that whole thing IS translating into not only a human mind but like A TINY human mind. basically mental illness. so many mental illnesses.

HE'S STILL A RLY HAPPY KID...BUT THERE'S SO MUCH TO GET THRU... it's not like he's permanently hallucinating or having night terrors every night either he leads a fairly normal life!!! and is a little kid and has fun and plays around and he's so so so sweet and rly happy!!! but. there's also The Horrors.

i dont think the dan would hide their powers. like yeah sure kano can turn into a cat yippeee!! if we lose a toy we go to hibiya he can find anything!! seto can ALWAYS guess what number we're thinking of it's so funny!! LIKE IT'D BE CUTE RATIO + PLAYING + HAVING FUN OK? PEACE AND LOVE ON PLANET EARTH, OK!?!?!?!?

but the thing is that haruka saw everything konoha did like THEY WERE. YEAH. haruka & konoha is a THING so i think konoha can ask something and haruka's increasingly like HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT bc there is no way ANYONE could've told him that like the only person who would know is. WELLLLLL KONOHA? i think the big reveal can happen thru konoha being like hey. do u remember when we talked. in that big white room that never ended. that was rly weird lol like when did that happen. where even were we lol. also u were yelling thats so weird u never yell it was scary. lol!! and haruka's like Hehe(shaking) bc as soon as he realises He Cannot Stop realising

what the dan doesn't say is their story ofc bc it's rly sad and like why would they tell their kids abt that lol but. konoha starts asking Questions... Very Specific Questions.

ok sorry i havent even gotten to the way he finds out he's even awakening eyes LOL i think haruka realises btw. he realises before konoha realises. well konoha DOESNT realise. but he HAS been having this identity crisis and he's like damn i already transed my gender WHAT IS IT THIS TIME and he keeps asking these oddly specific questions that are freaking everybody out because he's not even really asking about their pasts?? he's just like mixing his old memories to his current memories and being like uncle shintaro remember when we fell off that high place together :3 and shintaro's like what the fuck are u talking about. like he doesn't describe it specifically enough or whoever he's talking to just assumes someone else told him abt something that happened back then.

like THATS HIS OTHER SELF so haruka isnt even doubting it, as soon as he realises HE DOESNT UNREALISE HE DOESN'T TRY TO CONVINCE HIMSELF OTHERWISE once he knows HE KNOWS. but konoha still doesn't know he's just kinda watching haruka having like a crisis or something.

from then on erm.... about how to manage it... well it'd be a complicated situation. haruka obviously tells takane and she's like ur fucking crazy lol im gonna go talk to him *leaves* *comes back* ok u were right. how the fuck did we even create this.

basically the dan knows before konoha does and it becomes a rly complicated subject about what to do about it because most of them are like the only way to rly make sure is to talk to konoha and they dont know if they wanna do that because they'd have to come clean about their horrible story and yknow konoha's just a kid!! but also if he IS konoha and everything he is seeing are those awful memories then he should know? for peace of mind? maybe? it's... a whole thing. like konoha isn't.... suffering. like obviously all his mental issues are awful but it's not like they will go away just by having context to some stuff. he's still a happy kid. the dan's like ok somehow haruka and ene created a freak of nature. it happens.

like what if they tell him and then all the memories become super clear. why would they wanna do that. most of the memories are total ass and awful. but also konoha's clearly confused and feels so lost. but maybe that's better than him being properly traumatized by remembering everything??

at the end of the day haruka and takane are the parents and they have to decide lollll man they'd be so torn about it. konoha probably throws a line like i just always feel like im forgetting something. THEY'D BREAK DOWN ON EACH OTHER SO BAD AND KONOHA'S LIKE WHYYYY ARE U GUYS CRYINGGGG!?!?! srry haruka and takane for putting u thru the horrors. i think it's funny to do that. congratulations on the marriage and the kid but also cry about it

erm. idk if or how they'd tell him. this is all i can come up with now. bye tune in for next chapter i fucking guess

[insanetwocubes]

I'm feeling so emotional right now.

I'm so tired.

I talked to our therapist about what happened in college. Cried a lot. Realized I forgot a good chunk of it. Now we need to finish the other half (hopefully) of the story. And then maybe next week I get to talk about something light. But I guess I'm doing my job and unblocking these things that have been bothering me.

If I had it my way, I would just talk to Flare but...

I wish I could just talk to Flare. But. *sigh*

Every time I run into this issue I'm lowkey kinda scared Flare and I will have to break up. But.. neither of us want to. But if your moiraillegence isn't working then you gotta find someone else, right? But it's also not not working? I mean we love each other a lot. But every time I talk about Flare I feel like... they're not pulling their end of the deal. But they are actually. And I don't actually want to break up. And we probably won't break up. And I will still love them if we break up.

But idk. I feel like the therapist is gonna be like "You deserve better" and convince me to break up. It doesn't at all make sense. Flare is my world, there is /nothing/ better than Flare. Idk.

Idk it feels like weird talking about our relationship. Because even though I /know/ Flare is doing their part, I can't put words to it to prove it? Lyke if someone decides to question it, what really would I say?

I could just answer with a scoff. Which is really what such a question deserves. I love Flare. End of story. We work together. We love each other. We support each other. And we're happy.

Except. I need more. And that feels so bad. But I don't love Flare any less. Obviously lol you're a fool to pass someone like Flare up.

I don't want to break up??? Four???? I love you.

I don't want to break up either. That's what I'm saying.

What's the core issue here?

I feel like I'm cheating on you.

With our therapist. The /doctor/ we're paying to help us live a healthier life? You're cheating me with a paid doctor?

Look okay, I know it sounds stupid. But lyke. What are we?

Moirails.

But are we?

That's what I thought we are?

Yeah, but you're....

Doing a better job at it lately?

Uhm. Yeah. But you didn't. Before.

Sorry.

And you only started doing better thanks to therapy.

So you're unhappy I'm doing a better job at being your moirail.

Yes... no. No. Augh.

What's changed? This feeling wasn't there since we went through the memories.

No. No, it wasn't.

Did I say something or...?

No....

So what happened?

It's.... different. Now.

You don't think you can help me now that it's your turn to get help.

That's.... hm.

Our dynamic flipped and now you're getting help and you're not sure about our dynamic anymore.

Yeah. Maybe. Is that okay? Sorry.

Four. Hey. Four Four.

Hm?

I don't want to break up because our dynamic flipped. Let me take care of you. Of us.

...

Okay? I love you, lover.

Ily rly?

~Four

[stray-tori]

TPN Vol 8 - Chapters 66-70 Thoughts

[we're already on vol 9 but I'm slow with compiling]

I know I always rag on the "cop out" deaths and it is true that no corpse no dead, and I am curious if there will be any more worldbuilding regarding Lucas' survival (hello deus ex machina person) but uh. Idk. I'm sure it has a point and it makes sense in universe (having him be the reason for the knowledge among GP kids is good) but it just feels a little. Eh. Like it feels like paddling back on a small part of geezers guilt and feelings. In part it also feels like a "reward" for choosing the heroes moral side and going to help save Emma (why ever that happened - ig bc Gilda would blow up the shelter if he doesn't so. YAY).

...

Obviously the development is still his, and he obviously isn't expecting to find anyone alive there, but ig i felt like he was leading up to... healing more through the kids and not one epic Emma speech and "oh your one friend is alive btw" reveal later on. It feels like a spark of hope and happiness for him that I'm not sure if was needed narratively. He already decided he wouldn't harm them.

Like maybe they handle it very differently so i might be jumping the gun here but idk. It just feels a little... weird to me. Probably in a similar way how speeches about Norman hurt but also kind of get that "well uh about that...." Air once you know. I feel for the characters and their separation but it doesn't have the same weight it could have anymore.

In theory it reminds me a bit of the whole gate reveal structure in s2. With a setup being built up or established and a reveal just going "nvm that's not what we're doing".

It makes sense, I'm just not a huge fan of what it does for me for previously established things.

But i guess writing wise it puts its cards on the table with small scale Lucas and then Norman haha.

.

I find it rly funny how much the arc sort of mirrors the s2 arc so far (character assumed dead is alive, new cast of demon kill children introduced, a plan to kill demons).

Ig that might be intentional, for all intents it's a good method of conveying character change. Or different specifics or how things might be judged differently with different specifics (like hunting for enjoyment vs. farming)

I'm totally jumping in on this too early but idk it's interesting to think about.

That and also our whole "There's someone I want you to meet" - "ITS NORMAN" jokes made me think, like you could probably ACTUALLY restructure some of this in a way that would allow Norman's return here instead lol. Could be a fun AU, esp since we have the seeds of a (small-scale) demon annihilation plan anyway.

I also just find it funny to think about Norman grumbling from his future self that Emma agreed to some random guy's plan so easily udkhjsd

Obviously the time is a bit of a mess -- it's only been 3 months? is Adam out bc Norman's escaped already or was Adam just shipped to GP? if he already escaped, our boy is quick - plus, why would he go to GP. the supporters in Lambda probably know it's been compromised, so aside from freeing the children, there isn't a lot of reason to go there and while that may have priority, I feel like 3 months is a bit of a short timeframe for Norman to settle in there well enough -- so it's more wonky than anything BUT IT'S FUN TO THINK ABOUT.

.

btw I find it so funny how Emma has that whole "intent to kill" thing going on now, considering her later moral stance - like it's fair but coming from s2 it's a bit of whiplash haha especially since she's so determined about it right from the start. (though I have no idea if she ever addressed killing demons before this, memory bad)

Though notably she said "she wants to shut down the hunting ground too", not "want to kill them too" - and it's good that she draws a line but IDK IT'S JUST INTERESTING because what bothers her is the toying / no respect for their lives, right? - "this kind of hunt", not hunting in general.

... so like, if you were hunted by a demon in the wild, who didn't toy with you, just killed and ate you, that would be fine then? Idk, it's a very fine line and I get it, but it's interesting to think about. A quick, suffer-less death is of course a valid thing to want if you will die anyway, but you're dead afterwards in both variants.

Of course maybe I'm reading it wrong and it's just her sort of realizing that between mass production farms and GP, they really did have it good, even if they died an early death, and how this is much more hate-worthy than GF's method. Which is true, I suppose, and might expand on the building blocks of her moral development down the line (as in "there's different stages of demon-badness").

.

Also a more funny thought but imagine if Lucas DID have the pen, would... Geezer-senpai just not find the way back? And even if he did would he even get into the bunker? That'd be one tragic ending pff. Tell the person to run away and they can't even go back inside sudhdjd

.

Also i thought about it and isn't it weird that none of the books or materials mentioned what goldy pond actually is? Like youd expect sth that important to be in there.

We know WM wasn't at the bunker in the last 13 years and we know that the books he supplied to GF, the newest one was 2015. What if he was discovered or had to limit his WM activity 30 years ago?

So 30 years ago, he still sent people to goldy pond.

I'm just realizing.... That totally sounds like a setup for minerva to actually be on the demons side or a demon himself sjdhjddj. Like he orchestrates escapees (who are likely to be smart) and then sends them to GP where he and his noble friends can hunt them.

But where i was actually going with this uh, what if GP 30 years ago (potentially longer depending on how long ago he was there last) wasn't actually a hunting a ground? Why would you send kids there without a warning otherwise? What if it WAS a small human community (tho that would likely have been passed around by the inhabitants) or it was at least WM supporter base like the bunker, intended for humans to live there. Not sure about mansion then but YKNOW.

If it was, i wonder if it being discovered was a huge part in WM cover being blown OR if the demons decided to keep it secret bc you know this place is rly convinient haha

I also wonder how wm even finds and builds all these underground things lol. Bc it can't have existed since before the world split i think?

Man has some big construction projects running pfff.

I'm also not sure how that underground thing works-

.

its tori is confused about minor things hour

[Emma takes the axe with right hand, her right hand is still behind her as if she was winding up, but the axe is already thrown?]

like if she had the axe still in hand it'd make sense or if it was in her hand AND spinning, it'd be like "2 frames".

but this?? i am just-

.

im rly late with this but the glove is Lucas' memorial. the pair will only be together again when they reunite :<<

what I want to know is HOW. like the John thing is already questionable but I guess he could have gone back again?? but with this.

he has both gloves when they part he still have one glove on when his arm is gone. but the arm Leuvis has, doesn't have a glove?? So either Leuvis took it off but i wouldn't know why, and just dropped it on the ground for geezer to come pick up ORRRR he took one off for some reason?? maybe he threw it at the demon pff something is very un-continous here and i need answers-

.

the duality of man... not wanting people to know a) your age and b) your name (which you may have forgotten, who knows)

we just assumed geezer's name is censored here but I guess it could be anything haha-