#acknowledging the canon abuse in a series and finding toxic characters interesting to explore in fiction is not fetishising abuse

[killshopdeluxe]

fandom related

[idreamtofmanderleyagain]

Five years ago, the women on this site who treated me like trash over loving Labyrinth and shipping Jareth/Sarah were almost always obliviously consuming Radfem propaganda, or were out and out Radfems/Terfs themselves.

They were the types of people who casually threw the word “pedophile” around against grown women who shipped an adult Sarah with Jareth, aka literally one of the most popular ships for women in fandom for 30 years.

Pretty much invariably, these women had serious sex-negative anxieties, which included a severe paranoia about any and all kink and fetish, and porn in general. I saw a lot of shocking, fear-mongering propaganda surrounding sexual expression. Pretty much invariably, their method of approach involved immediate personal shock-value attacks on anyone they perceived to be “bad.”

Today, you can look at the way some people react to other popular so-called “problematic” ships and recognize the same toxic, fear-mongering rhetoric coming from women who consider themselves regular, trans-inclusive feminists. Sometimes it even manifests in the words of very well-meaning people (including myself here), who feel the need to talk about specific issues that pertain to their own experiences of trauma and oppression.

The people who shit on Labyrinth often seem to not really be able to comprehend that the Goblin King, like the film itself, is canonically a representation of a teen girl’s psyche, a soup of fears and anxieties and desires and dreams. He’s not a literal human adult preying on a literal child, and to read the film that way seriously undermines the entire point of the film. 

When I (and people of many fandoms) say “This is fiction, calm down,” I’m not just saying it’s not real so it cant hurt you and you can’t criticize me. I’m trying to call attention to what fiction actually is - artistic representations of feelings and experiences. The Goblin King is Sarah’s fiction. Therefore, he can be anything she or any woman who identifies with her wants him to be, including her lover when she’s grown and ready for such a thing.

I once took an alarming dive into Beetlejuice fandom to see what content was there (the cartoon was a favorite when I was little). Chillingly, what you’ll find is an extremely wounded fanbase, with a sharp divide between the older women who had long been shipping BJ/Lydia because of their love for the cartoon series (and whom were previously the vast majority of the Beetlejuice fandom), and a massive amount of young people riding the wave of the musical fad who had decided that the entire old school Beetlejuice fandom was populated by literal pedophiles. 

I saw death threats. Suicide baiting. Constant, constant toxic discourse. It did not matter how the BJ/Lydia fandom dealt with any particular issues that would exist in their ship, in fact I’m certain that the people abusing them cared very little to even consider if they were trying to handle it at all. The only thing that mattered was that they were disgusting subhuman scum asking for abuse. If you have at any time reblogged recent Beetlejuice fan art or content from fans of the musical, you have more than likely been engaging positively with the content of someone participating in toxic fandom behavior.

Nobody is really sticking up for them, either, as far as I saw. It’s really hard to imagine how painful it must be to have such a large group of people explode into into your relatively private fandom space to tell you that you are evil, vile, and deserve constant abuse, and also you are no longer allowed into the fandom space to engage in it’s content. But I think there’s something very alarming indeed about this happening specifically to the BJ fandom, and I’ll explain why. 

The pop-culture characterization of Beetlejuice, which is heavily influenced by the cartoon series to be clear, has always in my mind been a vaguely ageless being who matches with the psychological maturity of whatever age Lydia is supposed to be. He’s more or less like an imaginary friend, a manifestation of Lydia’s psyche. In fact, I would argue that i think most of us who grew up with the cartoon or it’s subsequent merchandizing before the musical ever existed probably internalized the idea as BJ and Lydia as this ageless, salt-and-pepper-shaker couple beloved by the goth community, similar to Gomez and Morticia. In each version of canon he may be a creepy ghost in the literal sense, but any adult who is capable of identifying literary tropes (even just subconciously) would read cartoon!BJ as an artistic representation of a socially awkward outcast girl’s inner world. Lydia’s darker dispositions and interests, which alienate her from most others, are freely accepted and embraced by her spooky magical friend. BJ/Lydia in the cartoon were depicted as best friends, but to my memory there was always an underlying sense that they had secret feelings for each other, which I identified easily even as a small child. In fact, their dynamic and behavior perfectly reflected the psychological development of the show’s target demographic. They are best friends who get into adventures and learning experiences together, who have delicate feelings for each other but lack any true adult romantic/sexual understanding to acknowledge those feelings, let alone pursue them.

Though I haven’t seen the Musical yet, I’ve read the wiki and I would argue that it embodies this exact same concept even more so for it’s own version of the characters, in that Beetlejuice specifically exists to help Lydia process her mother’s death.

This is not a complicated thing to recognize and comprehend whatsoever. In fact, it looks downright blatant. It’s also a clear indicator of what BJ/Lydia means to the women who have long loved it. It was a story about a spooky wierd girl being loved and accepted and understood for who she was, and it gave them a sense of solidarity. It makes perfect sense why those women would stick with those characters, and create a safe little space for themselves to and imagine their beloved characters growing and having adult lives and experiencing adult drama, in just the same ways that the women of the Labyrinth fandom do. That’s all these women were doing. And now, they can’t do it without facing intense verbal violence. That safe space is poisoned now.

Having grown up with the cartoon as one of my favorites and been around goth subculture stuff for decades, I was actually shocked and squicked at the original Beetlejuice film’s narrative once I actually saw it, because it was extremely divorced from what these two characters had evolved into for goth subculture and what they meant to me. It’s not telling the same story, and is in fact about the Maitland's specifically. In pretty much exactly the same way two different versions of Little Red Riding Hood can be extremely different from each other, the film is a different animal. While I imagine that the film version has been at the heart of a lot of this confused fear-mongering around all other versions of the characters, I would no more judge different adaptations of these characters any more than I would condemn a version of Little Red in which Red and the Wolf are best friends or lovers just because the very first iteration of LRRH was about protecting yourself from predators.

I would even argue that the people who have engaged in Anti-shipper behavior over BJ/Lydia are in intense denial over the fact that BJ being interested in Lydia, either as blatant predatory behavior a la the film or on a peer level as in the cartoon (and musical?) is an inextricable part of canon. Beetlejuice was always attracted to Lydia, and it was not always cute or amusing. Beetlejuice was not always a beloved buddy character, an in fact was originally written as a gross scumbag. That’s just what he was. Even people engaging with him now by writing OC girlfriends for him (as stand-ins for the salt-and-pepper-shaker space Lydia used to take up, because obviously that was part of the core fun of the characters), or just loving him as a character, are erasing parts of his character’s history in order to do so. They are actively refusing to be held responsible for being fans of new version of him despite the fact that he engaged in overt predatory behavior in the original film. In fact, I would venture to say that they are actively erasing the fact that Musical Beetliejuice tried to marry a teenager and as far as I’m aware, seemed to like the idea (because he’s probably a fucking figment of her imagination but go off I guess). The only reason they can have a version of this character who could be perceived as “buddy” material is because...the cartoon had an impact on our pop cultural perception of what the character and his dynamic with Lydia is. 

We can have a version of the Big Bad Wolf who’s a creepy monster. We can have a version who’s sweet and lovable. We can have a version that lives in the middle. We can have a version who’s a hybrid between Red and the Wolf (a la Ruby in OUAT). All of these things can exist in the same world, and can even be loved for different reasons by the same people.

I’ve been using Beetlejuice as an example here because it’s kind of perfect for my overall point regarding the toxic ideologies in fandom right now across many different spaces, including ones for progressive and queer media, and how much so many people don’t recognize how deeply they’ve been radicalized into literalist and sex-negative radfem rhetoric, to the point where we aren’t allowed to have difficult, messy explorations of imperfect, flawed humans, and that art is never going to be 100% pure and without flaw in it’s ability to convey what it wants to convey.

This includes the rhetoric I’ve seen across the board, from She-Ra to A:TLA to Star Wars to Lovecraft Country. We don’t talk about the inherent malleable, subjective, or charmingly imperfect nature of fiction any more. Transformation and reclamation are myths in this space. Everything is in rigid categories. It is seemingly very difficult for some of these people to engage with anything that is not able to be clearly labeled as one thing or another (see the inherent transphobic and biphobic elements of the most intense rhetoric). They destroy anything they cannot filter through their ideology. When women act in a way that breaks from their narrative of womanhood (like...not having a vagina), then those women must be condemned instead of understood. Anything that challenges them or makes them uncomfortable is a mortal sin. There is an extraordinary level of both hypocrisy and repressive denial that is underlying the behavior I’m seeing now. Much like toxic Christian conservatism, these people often are discovered engaging in the same behaviors and interests that they condemn behind closed doors (or just out of sheer cognitive dissonance). As an example, one of the people who talked shit to me about Labyrinth was a huge fan of Kill La Kill, which to my knowledge was an anime about a teenage girl in like, superpowered lingere (hence why I stayed the fuck away from that shit myself). Indeed, they even allow themselves plenty of leeway for behavior far worse than they condemn others for, and create support systems for the worst of their own abusers. 

Quite frankly, I’m tired. Instead of talking about theoretical problematic shit, we need to start talking about quantifiable harm. Because as far as I can tell, the most real, immediate, and quantifiable harm done because of anybody’s favorite ships or pieces of media seems to consistently be the kind that’s done to the people who experience verbal violence and abuse and manipulation and suicide baiting and death threats from the people who have a problem.

[worldevoured]

GUIDELINES

BEFORE INTERACTING

About the writer: Marianne, she/her, 27, EST. I’ll answer to Ani or Mari, as well. Full-time grad student, working two jobs. My time is limited and this is for fun!

This is a private and selective MULTIMUSE blog for characters from the Dragon Age series, as well as a few crossover characters based in the Dragon Age universe. This blog will feature triggering material, including plot-appropriate violence, sex, drug/alcohol use, discussion of abuse, and other potentially triggering content. I will tag all common triggers, and anything I am asked to tag. Please take care if you follow!

Please tag cancer, sexual violence of any kind (including ‘dubious consent’ and somnophilia), and images of spiders.

ON INTERACTING & FOLLOWING

This blog is mutuals only. If I follow you, I want to write with you! OCs, multimuses, and crossovers are always, always welcome!

I reserve the right to not follow, unfollow, or block users as I see fit, including for the following reasons:

You are under 18, or have no mention of your age/age range on your blog. All minors who follow this blog will be softblocked.

You are inactive for more than six weeks. (If you come back to your blog, please message me so I can refollow!)

You repeatedly ignore my rules.

You don’t seem interested in writing with me, and have a pattern of not responding to my attempts to interact (repeatedly ignoring starters, memes, etc.)

You romanticize Nazis in any way, shape, or form.

You write “dark themes” such as abuse in a disrespectful manner. It’s possible to write on a “dark theme” without romanticizing or fetishizing it.

You engage in racist, sexist, cissexist, homophobic, ableist, or otherwise harmful behavior.

You guilt and/or manipulate me or any of your followers.

I feel distress or unease writing with you, engaging with you, or seeing you on my dashboard.

Regarding cisswapped characters: I will not follow or interact with cisswapped characters written by cis writers. (I’m cis; it’s not my place to tell anyone who isn’t how to approach gender.)

Regarding “overpowered” characters: I don’t enjoy writing with characters that are completely devoid of flaws, vulnerabilities, or weaknesses – it’s just not fun for me when there aren’t any real stakes, and the rules of whichever universe we’re playing in don’t apply to one of the characters involved.

Feel free to write greeters, send memes, turn memes into threads, and message me to plot! Please don’t write me unsolicited starters otherwise.

I don’t require reblog karma, though I don’t like being used as a meme source if we never interact.

Regarding duplicates: please come write with me! I don’t experience duplicate (character or face claim) anxiety or insecurity and would love to bond over a character we both clearly adore.

ON CANON & FANDOMS

Any character-specific canon divergence will be noted on individual bios. Some blogwide canon divergence:

Re: Cailan and Anora – Cailan divorcing Anora to marry Celene doesn’t make sense to me — it would be a long and difficult process to divorce someone and marry the regent of another sovereign nation, and would cause a lot of ill will with the people — and while I’m perfectly comfortable with including references to such rumors, it’s not something I recognize as canon overall, without extensive plotting.

Re: the Dark Ritual – Because Loghain has to be persuaded or ordered to participate in the Dark Ritual, and thus cannot fully consent, I will not acknowledge Loghain as having completed the Dark Ritual, without extensive plotting to explain why he would consent without persuasion or orders coming into the mix. I also will not write threads that involve in any way Alistair completing the Ritual due to persuasion or coercion. There are ways for Alistair to agree to the Ritual without the “persuade” option being chosen. This is a matter of my own comfort.

I do not interact with whitewashed characters. I recognize Fiona as Alistair’s mother, and Fiona as a woman of color. Tabris’ mother is a dark-skinned woman of color, likely intended by the mods to be Black. ( Source one / two / three ). Their biological children should reflect this. Merrill, Isabela, Dorian, Zevran, Fenris, and Sebastian are all nonwhite. I won’t interact with any portrayals that engage in whitewashing, or ignoring canonically established races for characters.

There are only a handful of fandoms I will not interact with, due to my own comfort. I may interact with the characters in AUs if I am comfortable with the writer. Find the list here.

ON RELATIONSHIPS

I love shipping, and am always interested in exploring new dynamics. With that said, I reserve the right to limit or refuse any plot that makes me uncomfortable. I won’t write incest (relationships between third or greater cousins is fine, but nothing closer than that), and while I am very comfortable writing complicated relationships, I won’t romanticize abuse or toxicity, or write explicit abuse scenes.

Please read this post if you’re interested in shipping !!

ON CONTENT

Please understand that the source material I draw from deals with potentially triggering material, including (but not limited to) violence, sex, drug/alcohol use, and abuse. All of these topics will be dealt with on this blog. With that said, I do reserve the right to refuse to write anything for any reason, especially my own comfort.

I am a legal adult and am comfortable writing legal adults having consensual sex. I will not write smut with or about anyone under the age of eighteen. I am perfectly comfortable with and willing to write scenes fading to black or time jumps. I will not use visual aids of any kind in replies involving graphic sex and ask that you do the same. All NSFW images and text will be tagged as #nsfw;

My formatting is minimal – typically small text and 100x100 icons. English is weird, in spelling and grammar. I don’t super care if you get it right all the time. If I need clarification, I’ll ask!

The dash updates were great for me, as a person with limited visibility. I won’t follow anyone sacrificing accessibility for aesthetics, including with photoshop replies, impossible-to-see icons, and purple prose excessive to the point of being incomprehensible.

If you are uncomfortable with anything you see here, please let me know. I am not perfect and I am sure I’ll make mistakes; if that happens, and you’re comfortable, tell me, and I’ll make every effort to fix it and to be better in the future, in the case of me doing something harmful.

CREDIT

Found here.

EXCLUSIVITY

Notes – If I am exclusive with a particular portrayal, please do not approach me to write with other versions of these characters on this blog. Please also know that I’m unlikely to drop exclusivity for any reason besides extensive (two or more months) inactivity, or breaking mutuals. Threads which ignore or disrespect my exclusivity will be dropped.

Exclusives:

Draco Malfoy – potterstillstinks

Jace Herondale – createdivine