#acd estate

[koalatysleep]

Reblogging because the posts contain some Very Important Facts that Sherlock Holmes himself would have wanted fans to know!

In essence there are 2 "estates":

The legit estate is called "The Conan Doyle Estate", and it's run by descendents of ACD. This legit estate is NOT the homophobic one that has been threatening to sue adaptations for protraying a queer Holmes.

The homophobic fake "estate" is called "The Conan Doyle Literary Estate", which was run by Andrea Plunket, a homophobic woman who did NOT actually own the copyrights to the Holmes canon.

Just so you know which homophobic estate to give the middle finger to if you're angry. Facts & Research are so important, kudos to the OPs who did both for us!

The FB link below has some of the same info as the posts, except with the excellent addition of how ACD himself only had 1 stipulation about Sherlock Holmes' depiction when a William Gillette asked for permission to revise the text - Holmes must not be protrayed as romantically interested in women. Apart from that, he tells William that "you may marry him, murder him, or do anything you like to him".

So it is actually with ACD's blessings that fan writers and artists have been depicting Holmes and Watson as a romantic couple!

The Conan Doyle estate have been very clear that they do not wish to see Holmes and Watson in a homosexual relationship? They have sued companies before for the misrepresentation of Sherlock Holmes stories. Do you think this could be the cause of the lack of Johnlock and perhaps why Moffatiss deny Johnlock so vehemently?

Hi Nonny!

I’ve covered this very topic numerous times under my copyrights tag, in these posts here:

Copyrights

Three Garridebs and S4

Copyright and S4 // Clarification on the Post

Andrea Plunket and the Copyrights

ACD Estate Restrictions: S5 in 2020?

Clarification on the Copyrights

What is the True Copyright Expiration

As far as I know, the Holmes stories with the exception of… 6 of them I think?… are in public domain, until they all expire I THINK in 2024 (though there are active efforts to skirt around the copyrights, it seems). Regardless, ACD didn’t give a rat’s ass what people did with Holmes. Honestly, I understand what the estate is trying to do, but Doyle, if he intended to make Holmes queer, I doubt very much he would have told his family for fear of suffering the same fate as his friend Oscar Wilde.

That said, it’s been speculated that S4 is the way it is because Mofftiss HAD to make a 4th season because BBC wanted one, and because they currently can’t tell the stories that they want (the 6 still under copyrights), mainly Three Garridebs (the story Mofftiss quoted as a favourite on the regular up until recently) and planted the seeds for 3G in S4 (a lot of what John’s POV theory rides on for S4) and decided to instead prove that the show makes no sense without the Johnlock dynamic.

But again, that’s the Tinhat Steph talking. 

I’ve done a post recently covering some “ACD intended Johnlock” stuff, so you can read more here.

[okapiandpaste]

(Rephrasing from previous deleted post) Ok. I'm trying to understand what was going on with all the Conan Doyle Estate lawsuits for a Sherlock Holmes video essay. I've seen multiple people mention that most of the ruckus created by the Doyle Estate was actually only by one of the members, but I can't confirm it anywhere. The current Doyle Estate website mentions 8 members of the estate, only one of whom is not a beneficiary of ACD's daughter's will that prompted the estate's creation in the first place. Is this the person ppl are talking about?

[ot3]

i know it's been said to death already but nothing funnier than ace attorney not being able to get permission from the ACD estate to have sherlock holmes in the eng games, but the surviving family of real life author soseki natsume was just like 'yeah go crazy do whatever you want'

[velveteencryptid]

Okay, bear with me

Laurie R King, author of a looooong and ongoing series of books inspired by Sherlock Holmes, once said that she had to convince the Doyle estate that her books were not going to be bodice-rippers (my words not hers). They were very concerned about the reputation and vibes of Sherlock and wanted to ensure she would honor ACD and the original Sherlock appropriately (she does imo).

Now, let's talk about the TV show Elementary, specifically the pilot. It immediately sets the stage that Holmes and Watson - who is a woman this time - are meeting for the first time. With Watson being a woman, you could easily see people assuming this show is going to be about them falling in love. Most shows with a male + female leads do, after all.

Then, the first thing Sherlock Holmes says to Joan Watson is a couple sentences about being in love/love at first sight: "Do you believe in love at first sight? I know what you're thinking: the world is a cynical place, and I must be a cynical man, thinking a woman like you would fall for a line like that. Thing is, it isn't a line, so, please... hear me when I say this. I have never loved anyone as I do you right now, in this moment."

And Joan is shocked and confused. Understandably!

Then Sherlock hits play on the remote in his hand, and the TV starts playing right as a character says the EXACT speech he just gave. He gives a "nailed it" and finally introduces himself like normal.

It's funny AND sets a tone for his eccentricities, but I don't think that's why they did it. I think that scene went exactly like that to announce right out of the gate that this would not be a love story, there would be no sexual tension, Watson being female changes NOTHING.

And it didn't. And it was perfect. Not usually wholesome or beautiful, but perfect.

I don't really have a point here, just had to connect those two points after re-watching the pilot last night

[moonlightandpalmtrees]

let’s be so real he wouldn’t be writing any more Sherlock Holmes even if he wasn’t super ultra dead

Spock and Sherlock Holmes are the same brand of “this character has been around for SO long and basically everyone agrees they’re gay or at least some flavor of queer. so much so that they’ve impacted the minds and hearts of GENERATIONS of queer people but for some reason, no matter how many adaptions and spin offs we get in the years since the original work, no one making the official work has had the guts to say it officially ”

[detectivejay]

And now for the first time, a poll idea that got sent to me via request, from @bringerofworlds! Thanks so much for sending in this question, I hadn't heard of these stories myself until I got this ask, so I'm excited to see how many of you all might have read them or know of them yourselves.

@bringerofworlds told me both of these stories were written with the permission of the ACD estate, and blend in with canon pretty seamlessly, so these are definitely going on my to read list! Would love to hear everyone's thoughts if you've read these also.

Please reblog for a larger sample size, they really wanted to see what the fandom's awareness of these stories is, so hoping for plenty of replies! :)

[dathen]

i wish coppola would pull an ACD Estate and start suing everyone who bases their Dracula “adaption” off his movie

[sarahthecoat]

just finished listening, and oh my what a delicious roast! :D

<3<3<3

Episode 140: Sherlock Holmes in the Public Domain (Finally!) 

In which we discuss Sherlock Holmes in the public domain and what this means for creators. 

Featuring:

@earlgreytea68 provides the legal context and perspective on copyright and important Sherlock Holmes lawsuits

@songlin roasts the Arthur Conan Doyle Estate and why they are a “useless lot of loafers” 

@foxestacado asks a lot of dumb questions about copyright and case law and why the ACD Estate cared that Sherlock Holmes was emotional or gay

Stream or download on our website or wherever you catch your pods!

Art by @foxestacado

Reblog and share

[thedanceronthestreets]

Keep having to remind myself that for eh3, there will be no copyright restrictions. Enola holmes, the franchise that got sued by the acd estate before the first film even came out, is now uninhibited in its plot. Intriguing and dangerous.....

[johnlockrdj]

Actually even before 2023 the Conan Doyle estate didn't have any rights to say something to movies that have Johnlock. For example a member of the estate(I forgot her name, sorry) talked about Sherlock Holmes 3 and that if it will have too much Johnlock then they will have to intrude the casting and prevent from having such things in SH3. They don't have ANY right to do that, because showing Sherlock Holmes and John Watson as lovers doesn't go against the ACD Canon. After all, Doctor Watson wasn't describing every moment in their life with Holmes, was he? There were some gaps in between, for example moments when they are "sleeping" at night, right? Those gaps remain a mystery to the reader, because we don't know what they were doing then. Obviously it would be very foolish of Watson to describe romantic moments in his life with Holmes and publish it, so he most likely left those moments as gaps. And movies are just fantasizing about what was happening in those moments of their lives, so it doesn't make any sense to go against it.

[tiger-moran]

I'm thinking again now about how one of ACD's """family""" talked about potentially making a series (of what I don't know. Books? TV show? I don't know what he meant exactly. I assume books) about Moran who is, according to him, “a young guy”, which I know probably means if that ever happened they'd try to turn him into some sort of heterosexual action hero or some shit like that (what does "young guy" even mean anyway, that could mean anything from a child to a 30ish year old).

I am no fan of the trend of making Moriarty really young while keeping Moran older (that's if he even appears of course) but I also hate the idea of making Moran young if they're just going to do some James Bond-esque shit or something with him. It's definitely turning into another case of I'm having to do this myself to get something I don't hate, doing something where Moran is (relatively) young, because even if that series with Moran ever did materialise... well I don't trust anything connected with the Conan Doyle Estate to actually be either good or engaging, put it that way. Same as the modern day version, I'm having to do that myself because I don't like any of the modern takes on Moran I've already seen.

(Also they talked about making some TV show about Irene Adler and that already has me wincing in advance because I do not trust them with her either especially not when they just write her off basically as a vindictive blackmailer who's just jealous of the King's new 'girlfriend'.)

(I love how the Conan Doyle Estate website still has the thing about "Original Arthur Conan Doyle characters available for adaptation - Talk to us about licensing" as if they actually own every single one of ACD's characters.)

[hellfridge]

Can you tag your posts as anti sherlock & co in the future

Sherlock & Co: Gloria Scott PART TWO

What I don't like about Gloria Scott by Sherlock & Co? ... Part TWO.

Frankly, from the 50 minutes I skipped the first 15 minutes because what's the point? John and Marianna sharing a bed, because Sherlock needs his space and therefore a room for his own. Okay. That would be ONE sentence (if any!), but that? It's not in canon, it's not in any adaptation, Mariana is not a canon character, it's ought to be about Sherlock Holmes (and John Watson), and it's ought to be about the case. This 15 minutes are simply... unnecessary. Also, not helping the pacing at all. (Probably steering up conflict in fandom on top of all.)

I liked the conversation between John and Sherlock, also in bed. However, I didn't love it. It was all words: "identity" but no solid (story)telling behind. Then don't use the big words (which frankly, sounds OOC for Sherlock Holmes in the first place). John has a father and there's an issue and underlying trauma. Maybe. But it was all packed in 15 minutes slots.

And where's Victor? He isn't a dog, great. He's an adult gay man, good. But frankly? He's underused in Part TWO, and all this in THE story that's about Victor Trevor.

Why can't Victor sneak into Sherlock's bedroom? Tell about the old college days. Maybe revealing this story about the headmaster's (?) fate. Why not talk about with a man who's "between boyfriends" and was confronted with homophobia in his very own house and wasn't supported/ protected by his "alpha male" father recently?

It's a mess. It's not a childhood friend masked as a dog whose bones cannot be identified by a doctor in a well-scale bad, but it's messy. Also, the added music? Stop it.

[initiala]

Okay so you know how the Disney fandom wiki has the weird section in the character info that's for likes and dislikes. (I know this is a wiki primarily aimed at children and still it reads way more juvenile than it needs to) EXAMPLE: Cinderella

I'm making that now for anyone who wants to do a Sherlock Holmes pastiche. I'm surprised the ACD Estate doesn't have one. It goes something like this:

Likes: solving mysteries, playing violin, being friends with John Watson, doing cocaine, quarreling with Mycroft, outsmarting enemies, dramatically taking out his enemies, having honor

Dislikes: walls not having bullet holes in them, not being allowed to do cocaine, not having any mysteries to solve, Mycroft meddling in his business, John not listening to him, blackmail, when gentlemen aren't gentlemanly

The blackmail part is highlighted in particular because SO MANY of the canonical stories are Holmes and Watson getting a young lady out of blackmail problems or otherwise thwarting a blackmailer. (hence with the honor and gentlemanly behavior--he is of his age, regardless of anything else, and is very often shown to be a gentleman with Victorian manners and putting stock in being honorable) STOP WRITING PASTICHE WHERE HOLMES PARTICIPATES IN BLACKMAIL

[vyragosa]

this is why you are not allowed to give up hope

my dear self-aware of his fictionality and struggling with an identity holmes will have a happy ending. is an exercize in compassion, the long-standing contest of

"is sherlock holmes heartless?"

you are not allowed to give up, i am not allowed to give up.

because sherlock holmes is not heartless, because ACD wanted to kill him first,

in spite of the DOYLE estate suing anyone believing in a compassionate holmes

this is the fleeting battle that purists will not be allowed to win.

[quill-of-thoth]

Letters from Watson, Catching Up

The Gloria Scott part 2:  the fun bits

- Trevor is going out of his way to spend time with his teenage son and his son’s only friend. He’s an involved dad, and that’s both sweet and tragic given that he does not survive this tale. - Holmes is not staying with family during the rest of vacation... or at least, he says he’s staying in “my rooms in london” where he was previously staying on or near campus during the school year, probably. The victorian equivalent of a just-off-campus apartment could fit both living situations, but having to sign a year’s lease, prove months of income, and include a deposit was not really a thing then. He could have moved. It’s possible that he was staying with Mycroft, who is both older than him and likely already starting his london career, but I have no data on that. - Based on his organic chemistry experiments and the fact that Watson’s list of his “limits” in study in scarlet probably includes his courses of study in college and university, I think Holmes intended to become a chemist (NOT a pharmacist, brits, a person who studies chemistry for a living), possibly specifically an organic chemist, before he decided to become a detective.  - Organic chemistry was a fairly new and exciting field at the time: The synthetic dye industry had kicked off in the late 1850′s, when Holmes would have been a child, medicines were being synthesized, and plastics were about to become actually useful. (Holmes would have been exposed to them in his course of study, ACD probably knew a little bit about the first few attempts from his own studies or popular science media because the first plastic, Parkesine, was exhibited at the 1962 International Exhibition in London, where it won the bronze medal.) - He could also have intended to become a pharmacist (chemist, to speakers of UK english) but again. No data to suggest it’s likely. - Back to poor Victor, whose father is dying of apoplexy (stroke) or nervous shock (more vague but probably referring to sudden changes in behavior... read stress, trauma, probably also hypertension given the stroke.) Remember that Victor is still legally a child, with no adult relatives other than his father, and no friends besides Holmes, also a child (even by Baring-Gould’s timeline, though then as now the late teens are socially and legally a transition period into adulthood,) but one living more independently than Victor. He probably seemed very worldly, living on his own in London for the summer! - Hudson follows the pattern of many of the villains of Holmes’ adventures by making the maids at Trevor’s estate feel unsafe via crude language and public drunkenness. If you learn one thing from these stories, it’s that you should sack anyone who makes female servants feel uneasy, no questions asked. Victor doesn’t have any recourse if his father lets Hudson stay, other than physical violence. 

- That “grotesque” letter sure looks less silly now. Especially since it’s a very trivial cypher, which also a feature in these stories, almost always employed by somewhat-organized criminals, almost always ludicrously simple for the severity of the crimes alluded to. Still, the Victorians had SO MUCH correspondence, and the easiest way to hide a cypher is for nobody to think the cyphertext is important. Given the rest of the context, the postmark probably gave Trevor as much information as the message itself.

[skyriderwednesday]

Anthony Horowitz... he could have been an all-time great, if only he tried to work WITH Doyle. But his whole second novel being a big giant "haha nope and also I'm better" just makes me want to kick him in the head.

Honestly... yeah. I own House Of Silk, but I've never finished it. I didn't really get on with him reading Alex Rider when I was a kid, and I frankly just don't want my Sherlock Holmes gritty and gory. As for the second one, I think a book starring Yarders could be really interesting, but I'm dicey about the premise of it.

Congratulations on getting your Watson war service headcanons published, Anthony, but I wouldn't have authorised it if I was the ACD Estate.