#a most country-town indifference to decorum

[noonemonitorsmyscreentime]

"My goodness, did you see her hem? Six inches deep in mud. She looked positively medieval."

[beatrice-otter]

Such an exhibition

I have been thinking about the breakfast scene in Pride & Prejudice. You know the one:

“Yes, and her petticoat; I hope you saw her petticoat, six inches deep in mud, I am absolutely certain; and the gown which had been let down to hide it not doing its office.” ... “You observed it, Mr. Darcy, I am sure,” said Miss Bingley; “and I am inclined to think that you would not wish to see your sister make such an exhibition.” “Certainly not.” “To walk three miles, or four miles, or five miles, or whatever it is, above her ankles in dirt, and alone, quite alone! what could she mean by it? It seems to me to show an abominable sort of conceited independence, a most country-town indifference to decorum.”

It strikes me that there are some nuances that people often miss when talking about this. The first is that Miss Bingley attributes this "conceited independence" not to a flaw in Elizabeth personally, but to the difference between the manners of the country gentry (such as the Bennets) and the fashionable people who live in cities (like the Bingleys). In town, fashionable and wealthy people did not walk long distances. Fashionable people either owned horses/carriages, or took cabs. They would walk in parks where it was fashionable to walk. But they rarely walked alone, especially women. A man might walk to his club alone, in the afternoon, but when walking home from his club that evening he would hire a man to walk with him to discourage pickpockets and muggers. Even in posh neighborhoods!

But in the country ... there aren't cabs, and while there were robbers on the highways who would stop carriages to steal from them, they weren't lurking along footpaths such as the one Elizabeth would have taken. Elizabeth didn't ride horses, and her father is of the lower gentry, which means that the same horses which pull the carriage also work in the fields, and thus the carriage is not always available. Even when it is available, she's one of five daughters. If her dad or mom wants it, they get it; if she or her sisters want it, they have to argue over who gets it. And riding in a carriage was jolting and unpleasant (bad roads and no shock absorbers). So Elizabeth, like many members of the country lower gentry, often walks when she wants to go visit her neighbors.

Then there's the "alone" part. Everyone can quote "six inches deep in mud" but we forget that part of what shocks Miss Bingley is that Elizabeth walked by herself. In Regency England, the more wealth and status a woman's family had, the less often she would be alone. And again, big difference between the city and the country. In the city, a woman of Elizabeth's family status would never go anywhere alone. Either she'd have a female relative with her, or a friend or chaperone, or a servant. For protection, and also to vouch for her propriety. In the country ... as long as she's going to visit another woman, or just going out to walk for the exercise, and she's not going too far, nobody bats an eyelash. This is true both at Longbourn and also at Hunsford. If she were wealthier, that would not necessarily be the case; both Georgiana Darcy and Anne de Bourgh have companions who are paid to go where their mistress goes. So it's not just that Elizabeth is walking that shows the difference between town and country manners, it's also that she's walking alone.

Miss Bingley is criticizing Elizabeth in particular, but she is also criticizing her class, as a way of asserting both that the Bingleys have better manners than country gentry (despite their money coming from trade), and by appealing to Mr. Darcy about it she is also positioning herself as closer to his sphere and manners than to anyone else's.

Then we come to the question of how much does Darcy judge Elizabeth's actions. Mr. Darcy says he wouldn't want Georgiana to do what Elizabeth has done (walk three miles alone through muddy fields), but there's a big difference between the upper gentry and the lower gentry. Georgiana probably has her own horse, and she's much less likely to have to worry about whether the carriage horses are needed on the farm, and also she has someone who is literally paid to go with her everywhere. Also, Georgiana is sixteen years old, has already been targeted by a fortune hunter, and is very shy and timid. So the fact that he wouldn't want Georgiana to do it doesn't mean he necessarily sees it as a big deal when Elizabeth (older, not as wealthy*) does it.

*People sometimes claim the Bennets were either poor or middle class. They were at the bottom of the gentry, but that is still quite wealthy. Mr. Bennet has an income of £2,000/year, which is peanuts compared to Darcy. However, let us compare them to other people in their day. William and Dorothy Wordsworth spent the 1790s with an income of about £170-£180/year, with reasonable comfort. P&P was written in 1796-1797, so about the same time.

[jackoshadows]

"A Darcy who falls in love with Jane Bennet is not the Darcy in the story Austen is writing. In the same way a Jon Snow who falls in love with Sansa Stark is not the Jon Snow in the story George R R Martin  is telling. "

Yes, exactly. I was just talking to someone about this. Their Jon is not all the same character, I'm convinced none of them have read the books. There's no way one can read his chapters and come out of it saying he will fall for someone like sansa, he just loves warrior and independent women so much. Sansa is the exact opposite of what he wants. The fact that people put this ship on the same level as jonrya or jonerys just because he is related to these women is insulting and I'm not even a die hard jon stan.

As I mentioned in my previous ask, my interpretation of Jon has always been that he has a lot of respect and love for the characters who are proactive, the go-getters who decide what they want to happen and then actively work towards making that happen, the characters who don't settle but want more for themselves. You are right in that he does like the independent and aggressively proactive female characters.

And yes, I used the P&P example to highlight the absurdity of the Jonsa fandom. For the non ASoIaF readers, It’s like reading P&P and thinking that Darcy and Jane or even Darcy and Miss Bingley is the superior ship.

Imagine Darcy/Jane shippers hating on Lizzy for walking in all that mud to Netherfield park and all these essays on how Lizzy’s a NLOG undeserving of romance or how any criticism of Miss Bingley’s treatment of Jane and Lizzy is from women who have internalized misogyny or how we are against the Darcy/Jane ship because we are ‘sexist dudes’ who hate beautiful, girly girls.

Imagine these shippers arguing that Darcy/Jane is what is actually happening in the books and not Darcy falling for Elizabeth. That every interaction that Darcy has with Elizabeth is actually telling us something about Darcy and Jane. And that Jane and Mr. Bingley is actually just a stepping stone and foreshadowing for Jane and Darcy happening.

For ex., take this bit in the book:

"To walk three miles, or four miles, or five miles, or whatever it  is, above her ankles in dirt, and alone, quite alone!  What could  she mean by it?  It seems to me to show an abominable sort of  conceited independence, a most country-town indifference to  decorum."

"It shows an affection for her sister that is very pleasing," said  Bingley.

"I am afraid, Mr. Darcy," observed Miss Bingley in a half  whisper, "that this adventure has rather affected your  admiration of her fine eyes."

"Not at all," he replied; "they were brightened by the exercise."  A short pause followed this speech, - Pride and Prejudice, chapter 8

Imagine reading the above and interpreting that as Darcy talking about Jane’s eyes, not Elizabeth’s. That while saying the above, in his mind he is thinking of Jane up above in her room. Anyone would think this person is living in cloud cuckoo land right? This is precisely how normal asoiaf readers feel about the Jonsa fandom.

Imagine these shippers saying that Darcy is not attracted to Elizabeth’s intelligence and wits, no he is attracted to snobby Miss Bingley’s love for rules and propriety or to Jane’s beauty and sweet, gentle nature.

Imagine if someone argues that a true Darcy fan would only ship Darcy and Jane, that Darcy and Jane was what Austen intended all along and that’s what happened off page...

The thing is that no matter if some shippers want Darcy and Jane Bennet to be in a relationship, for Jane to get the beautiful grounds of Pemberley and a handsome husband and children or they ship Darcy and Jane together because Jane’s more beautiful than Elizabeth and sweet and gentle and therefore deserves the traditionally happy ever after ending compared to Elizabeth who walked miles in the mud and is therefore a ‘not like other girls’ type, not marriage material - no matter all this, the central relationship in the book from start to end is between Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet!

Darcy is not subconsciously thinking of Jane or Miss Bingley all the time, he’s interacting with Elizabeth Bennet. He’s attracted to Elizabeth’s mocking of the rules for ladies, to her pretty eyes brightened by walking miles in the mud, by her opposing him and arguing with him and matching wits with him. All the while, the more beautiful Jane’s right there. Again, TO MAKE DARCY FALL IN LOVE WITH JANE, ONE WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE DARCY’S ENTIRE PERSONALITY. THIS WOULD THEN NO LONGER BE MR. DARCY.

To ship Jonsa, one has to change Jon’s entire personality and story right from AGoT, Chapter I. They have to remove all the themes about underdogs and valuing the person instead of giving importance to societal prejudice from his story.  They have to remove his important relationships with Arya and Sam Tarly. These relationships are important because it defines who he is as a character, makes him a fully realized three dimensional character. They have to make him pathetically self loathing. Take away his self esteem and self worth. Remove his entire arc with the Freefolk. Make him a side character in Sansa Stark’s story of being QITN (Like the TV show did), instead of a politically savvy strategist main character with identity issues and being instrumental to dealing with the threat from beyond the Wall.

The only way anyone is going to ship Jonsa is if they skip all of Jon’s chapters, have never read the books or deliberately misread or misinterpret the text to try and shove one’s nonsensical crackship in there.

[talkaustentome]

Another reason I love this bit is because it echoes an earlier conversation at Netherfield:

[Miss Bingley:] “To walk three miles, or four miles, or five miles, or whatever it is, above her ancles in dirt, and alone, quite alone! what could she mean by it? It seems to me to show an abominable sort of conceited independence, a most country-town indifference to decorum.”

“It shows an affection for her sister that is very pleasing,” said Bingley.

While his sisters disparage Elizabeth, and Darcy merely “defends” her “fine eyes” again, it’s Bingley who openly recognises and admires the virtue Darcy will mention later on.

Of course, by the end of the novel, Darcy is able to acknowledge Elizabeth’s positive qualities more openly, to himself and to her. But I also like to think that, after all the influence Darcy had on Bingley, Bingley was also rubbing off on Darcy a little.

I find this post-engagement exchange in Pride & Prejudice between Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy very cute:

...To be sure you know no actual good of me—but nobody thinks of that when they fall in love.” (E) “Was there no good in your affectionate behaviour to Jane, while she was ill at Netherfield?” (D) “Dearest Jane! who could have done less for her? But make a virtue of it by all means. My good qualities are under your protection, and you are to exaggerate them as much as possible...." (E)

Because in a way Elizabeth's right, it's pretty normal for a sister to take care of a sister when she's sick. But in another way, he's right because Mary refused to come and Kitty and Lydia only cared about the ball.

It's this cute thing about how we can't even see our own virtues that others fall in love with.

[greetingsdr]

“To walk three miles, or four miles, or five miles, or whatever it is, above her ankles in dirt, and alone, quite alone! What could she mean by it? It seems to me to show an abominable sort of conceited independence, a most country-town indifference to decorum.” [Pride and Prejudice, Chapter 8]

Quick 30 minute illustration. Click for higher resolution.

[reflection-s-of-stars]

I think Charlotte’s marriage to Mr. Collins makes so much more sense if she’s gay- she doesn’t “think highly of either of men or of matrimony.” She doesn’t want to marry for love, or even to marry someone who could possibly love her because she knows she couldn’t love him back, which is why she marries someone whose romantic interest is twice described as “imaginary.” I like to think Charlotte’s aware of her own feelings in this regard. Maybe there’s a reason she marries a clergyman.

And if she’s in love with Elizabeth… Think about “the steady countenance which Miss Lucas had commanded in telling her story,” think about how “though [Charlotte’s] resolution was not to be shaken, her feelings must be hurt by [Elizabeth’s] disapprobation.” Think about the tone she uses when she tells her that “I hope you will be satisfied with what I have done.” Charlotte knows Elizabeth won’t react the way she wants, that she can’t love her back, but she’s hoping for a reaction. Instead, all poor Charlotte gets is a quiet “undoubtedly,” a damaged friendship, and a confirmation of what she already knew: there was never a chance.

Caroline, on the other hand… the internalized misogyny she exhibits at all times definitely points to something. There’s no way she doesn’t know about Darcy’s engagement to Miss de Bourgh. She still tries for his hand, though. She spends all the time she’s around Elizabeth flattering Darcy with all the purpose of a jealous lover. And let’s not forget how Caroline reacts to Elizabeth’s feelings (if you can call them that) for Wickham! She sneers about him at the ball, and carries the thought in her mind until Pemberley.

What a story it would turn out to be if, all along, it was Elizabeth she loved? If she was trying so hard to convince herself to love a man who was taken, when in fact there was true love in front of her and she was just too dense (or maybe too scared) to see it? At some point, she says that Elizabeth has “an abominable sort of conceited independence, a most country town indifference to decorum.” She’s never seen a woman be so much herself, never been enchanted by anybody who cares so little for appearance. She’s hopeless, is what she is. She’s so convinced of her own hatefulness that she doesn’t stop to think she might love.

In so many words: If Charlotte loves Elizabeth, her story is a romantic tragedy. If Caroline loves Elizabeth, her story is an extremely frustrating comedy. @iamthepulta

I think Charlotte Lucas and Caroline Bingley are both gay and in love with Elizabeth but for the opposite reasons

[megstevenson9]

A common theme during the Romantic time period was writing that focused on nature. A lot of works that were studied particularly in this class from this time period had very apparent emphases on nature, frequently having it be the subject of the piece.  Austen’s Pride and Prejudice differs from these other writers’ works because her use of nature is not as evident and requires some analysis.  Austen’s main use of nature and landscape is used in the characterization and development of her protagonist, Elizabeth Bennet.  Though some uses may be subtle, they are completely intentional and help the reader better understand not only Elizabeth as a character but her also her actions and turning points in the novel.  

The picture in the top right corner was chosen to represent the Bennet family home in the country.  This is important because their small, rustic home represents Elizabeth’s family’s social class, which is a big factor in her upbringing and identity.  As opposed to Mr. Darcy and the Bingleys who live in the city and are extremely wealthy, Elizabeth is poor and has an entirely different view of life.  This in turn ties in with the bottom left picture in the mood board.  This is a picture of a woman walking through the fields in the country and is symbolic of Elizabeth’s walk on foot to Netherfield. This is a major insight in the novel to Elizabeth’s social upbringing but also to her character and strength as a woman.  Her willingness to walk all that way to see her sister rather than take a horse or carriage like many other women would at that time speaks for itself.  While her sister Jane, had the same upbringing, this shows the differences between the sisters’ makeup.  Jane is frail and fragile.  She gets very sick from riding on horseback over to the Bingleys in the rain and becomes too ill to come back home. Elizabeth wants to be with her sick sister and does not even hesitate to come to her aid even if it is a three-mile walk away.  Elizabeth says herself “the distance is nothing when one has a motive”(Austen, 33).  In the picture there is no path and that’s symbolic of Elizabeth’s independence and not needing a path to follow at that particular moment or in life in general. This shows her strength and determination to not be afraid to deviate from a common route and create her own path in life even if it isn’t easy.  

The source “The BBC’s Pride and Prejudice: Falling in Love Through Nature” addresses the importance of this walk to Netherfield as well.  It states that “Elizabeth’s fondness for walks and association with the outdoors carries important implications for her character not just in terms of temperament, but also in terms of social standing.”  In the novel she is said to have been running through puddles and showing up to the Bingley house wet and muddy and looking wild. Miss Bingley makes a comment on her arrival saying “It seems to me to shew an abominable sort of conceited independence, a most country town indifference to decorum” (Austen, 36).  This part being included in the novel is what shows the difference in social class and typical behavior of a woman at this time that Lady Catherine, the Bingleys, and Mr. Darcy are accustomed to as opposed to Elizabeth’s actions.  

Socially during this time a woman’s place was in the house.  They were expected to be quiet, reserved, and be in the search of a potential suitor.  This is exactly what her mother expected of Elizabeth and her sisters but is something that she did not follow.  After her walk to Netherfield, it is clear to the reader that Elizabeth is in no sense prim and proper or a typical woman at this time.  Elizabeth instead is like nature.  She is free-spirited, down to earth, and wholesome.  Though she may not be as pretty as Jane and maybe a little rough around the edges, she has her own sense of beauty.  She behaves naturally, saying and doing whatever she feels and never tries to be anything she is not.  She says what she thinks and is unapologetically herself.  This relates to the bottom right picture on the mood board, which is an image from the movie.  In this image and throughout the whole book Elizabeth is imagined to look and dress naturally and wear simple, earthy clothes.  She is not over the top and her dress and appearance is not something that is important to her character.

Going off of the source, “The BBC’s Pride and Prejudice: Falling in Love Through Nature”, Elizabeth has many other times where she walks off into nature, though they are not as significant as her walk to Netherfield.  The book mentions, “not a day went by without a solitary walk, in which she might indulge in all the delight of unpleasant recollections” (Austen, 206).  These walks are a staple for her character and usually were where she would go to find an outlet or a source of comfort.  For example, in the book, she runs off into nature after Mr. Collins proposed to her, after an unpleasant encounter with Lady Catherine, and after she received the horrible news that Lydia had run off.  Elizabeth’s fondness for walks and nature is represented by the picture in the middle row on the far left side of the mood board.  This picture is of a woman holding leaves in her hands and is meant to show Elizabeth’s love for nature and represent the comfort she finds surrounding herself in it.

The top left picture is what is described as Pemberly and symbolic of how powerful the effects of landscape and nature have on an individual.  Elizabeth’s visit to Pemberly is the turning point for her in the novel.  “Looking at the Landscape in Jane Austen” says, “the sequence of descriptions in the chapter creates a sense of ascent, multiplicity, and expansion which defines not only the landscape but also the widening of Elizabeth’s vision of Darcy, and the increasing intensity of her feelings.” Here she falls in love with Darcy’s taste for nature.  Austen’s description of his home is exquisite and Elizabeth is in awe saying, “she had never seen a place for which nature had done more, or where natural beauty had been so little counteracted by an awkward taste” (Austen, 235).  It is through her visit to Pemberly and seeing the upkeep and simplicity of the space where her feelings toward Darcy have changed. Elizabeth’s view of the “landscape suggests a process of social discovery or corrected perception” (Bodenheimer).  The image of them holding hands and then them face to face on the mood board is meant to represent the change of attitude and passion after the visit to Pemberly.  The image of them holding hands was when they had danced together for the first time and she viewed him as condescending and arrogant.  Afterward seeing his home, she sees that she had misjudged him and loves this man and wants to be his wife.  Them face to face and the two rings symbolize their new relationship that has formed and the future that they will spend together.

Nature represents who Elizabeth is in terms of social class, but also her personality and where she finds her freedom and comfort.  Austen’s use of nature and landscape not only helps the reader better understand who Elizabeth Bennet is, but also how she changes throughout the story.  This is evident with the power of landscape at Pemberely which completely changes her view of Darcy.  Elizabeth even said herself that before she thought of Darcy as “the last man in the world whom I could ever be prevailed on to marry” (Austen, 188).  One visit to Pemberly completely changed everything.  

Citations:

Austen, Jane. Pride and Prejudice. New York: Penguin Classics, 2003. Print.

Bodenheimer, Rosemarie. “Looking at the Landscape in Jane Austen.” Studies in English Literature, 1500-1900, vol. 21, no. 4, 1981, pp. 605–623. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/450229.

“The BBC's Pride and Prejudice: Falling in Love through Nature.” Exposé Magazine, projects.iq.harvard.edu/expose/book/bbc%E2%80%99s-pride-and-prejudice-falling-love-through-nature.

[cats-tea-history]

@pemberleynet get to know the members week - day 02: female character

Elizabeth Bennet (Pride and Prejudice)

“To walk three miles, or four miles, or five miles, or whatever it is, above her ankles in dirt, and alone, quite alone! What could she mean by it? It seems to me to show an abominable sort of conceited independence, a most country-town indifference to decorum.”

“It shows an affection for her sister that is very pleasing.”

“I am afraid, Mr. Darcy,” observed Miss Bingley, in a half whisper, “that this adventure has rather affected your admiration of her fine eyes.”

“Not at all,” he replied: “they were brightened by the exercise.”