#a lot of this is about buffy and angel of course. but not everything. and not even entirely is it just shipping

[oveliagirlhaditright]

I never gave this panel much thought, even though something I'm about to show/explain in a moment shows that Buffy didn't know about "Not Fade Away" in season 8. (The above panel is from season 9.) I just assumed Angel and Spike must have finally filled her in about it here in season 9.

So, yeah: the proof that Buffy didn't know about it in season 8, and isn't letting Angel tell her about it at the time (though Buffy is definitely justified in her anger here atm and in not wanting to talk/listen):

But now I'm thinking that when she does finally learn about it in season 9, it was probably just Spike who just told her about it--which is really kind of sad, when that whole thing was Angel's whole idea and major sacrifice, really--since she and Angel aren't talking at the time.

But, yeah... everyone in the comics who didn't live in L.A. didn't know about "Not Fade Away." For months, the entire city gets sucked into Hell at the end of that episode. At the end of "Angel: After the Fall," which covers that whole thing, Connor dies. And Angel is unwilling to accept that, of course. And he and Wesley very cleverly realize that Wolfram & Hart want him for their plans and won't just accept his death and will be willing to do anything to stop it, should it happen. So, he then kills himself. And then in order to save him/bring him back, the Senior Partners have to undo the past months, and they essentially make it so everything that happened in "Not Fade Away" (following the alleyway fight) never did. And because of this, only the people in L.A. who had gotten sucked into Hell remembered that L.A. had ever disappeared and that they'd been gone. So while Buffy probably did know that Angel and the crew were gone at the time it happened and mourned them, by the above part of S8 she no longer does.

And while we're at it... let's just talk about the comics hinting at the information that was passed along from the Buffy group to the Angel groups--and vice versa--as a whole. Because I've meant to discuss this for a long time:

So, Angel and Spike clearly told Buffy about Illyria. And since Buffy flat-out says Angel was part of that, this was undoubtedly in season 5 that that discussion happened.

Angel must have told Buffy stuff about Connor (who then told Xander). There can be no other explanation for the above scene, really.

I will say that one thing that kind of saddens... actually, even ticks me off a little (though at least where the shows were concerned, there were legal issues involved, in which it got to a point where Buffy and Angel couldn't appear on each other's shows anymore--at least not very easily--because they were on different networks), is that after Buffy and Angel breakup he shows up a number of times to help Buffy out with her apocalypses or to be moral support for her when she needs him. But Buffy only ever shows up to help Angel once. (Edit: And this is why, even though it's not the canon verse, I actually kind of prefer the "In Every Generation" timeline where Buffy took an army of Slayers to help Angel and the A.I. team in the "Not Fade Away" battle.)

I've seen the argument that it's because the one time she did go to help him (the Faith thing in "Sanctuary") it didn't go well, they were on two different sides of that argument, and just ended up fighting with each other. But that's not a good enough explanation for me. Really, I feel like that's just an excuse to try and justify it, when really it makes no sense and kind of paints Buffy in a bad light.

And we see in the comics that there were definitely times when Angel wanted Buffy's help/could've used her help, but didn't get it (though of course, once again, he goes to help her with one of her apocalypses in the comics. And is treated kind of badly while most people there while doing so. Which I do get after the whole Twilight thing, but sheesh!):

(In the above panel, Dawn's beginning to fade away--and people are starting to forget her--as the world no longer has magic in it anymore.)

Which is why I'm actually kind of glad we get this moment in season twelve, where Angel takes this apocalypse he needs help with to Buffy and is basically like, "Yeah, you're all going to help me with this, and I don't want to hear it."

Anyway...

Edit: However... in the classic comics, at least, Buffy went to help Angel a few times (which I so appreciate!). Thank God.

1.

2.

[raisedbythetv89]

excuse the ranting here but just had someone try and argue that a fully evil literally on the hunt for the Slayer (bc he’s stalking his PREY to fight and hopefully kill) Spike - finding Buffy attractive (according to an interview James gave where he talks about that moment and said he embodied the kinds of predatory men who literally are “on the hunt” for real life women in bars) as anywhere NEAR the same level of creepiness as a SOULFUL aka SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD angel stalking and falling in love at the sight of an innocent and crying 15 year old Buffy….

Anti spike/spuffy ppl always try and use that interview to make Spike out to be “just as creepy” as Angel which is always just so embarrassing to me that they don’t grasp the basic difference between one was the most evil and literally is a predator to her prey but buffy is also a predator to spike’s kind so there is even still a balance of power between them even then and he’s literally just explaining how he played the scene to get the attitude and body language right as a predator bc he understands that’s what Spike is to Buffy at that time (literally had zero clue he would ever be a love interest of Buffy’s). And the other who is not supposed to be a predator anymore…. hides his identity as a vampire AND hides the fact that he’s been watching her for over a year is still acting as a predator but instead of stalking an experienced slayer to attempt to fight and kill he is stalking a freshly called still weak and vulnerable slayer who he wants to sleep with aka corrupt.

Angel is supposed to be GOOD yet is still acting like a predator. Spike IS EVIL and so is simply acting as someone who has killed two slayers should 💀💀💀💀 the fact that soulless evil Spike and soulful “good” Angel’s behavior can be compared AT ALL is bad for angel and angel alone bc spike is supposed to be evil and treating buffy as someone he is hunting and as an opponent. Angel is supposed to be HELPING Buffy….

But regardless of all that the argument is James said Sarah is beautiful so of course he played up that angle as well so canonically Spike thinks a 16 year old Buffy is pretty and these people really don’t understand the difference between the two 😭😭

First of all I personally have heard Sarah call herself “not the prettiest” at least 10 times in 10 different interviews - how often do you think the people in her life heard her make jokes or comments about her appearance??? To me that always seemed like James just paying a compliment to his costar who doesn’t understand how literally fucking STUNNING she is by basically being like HAVE YOU SEEN HER OF COURSE MY CHARACTER THINKS SHE’S PRETTY LOOK AT HER!! James literally rizzed his way into a main character and love interest like of course he’s gonna be charming in real life by paying compliments to everyone he can every chance he gets. He had sex appeal and a dream AND IT WORKED 💀 and we also see him have chemistry with practically every person on the show that’s just who he is 😹😹😹

But I also just cannot emphasize how much of a difference there is between finding someone attractive or thinking they’re beautiful vs actually ACTING on it and ESPECIALLY acting on it when you call her friend of the same age “just a kid” and say over and over again how wrong it is and that she’s too young AND THEN DO IT ANYWAY. Like it’s a supernatural show with vampires who are 100 & 200+ years old if angel hadn’t constantly acted like her dad and treated Buffy like a kid and everything is season 3 didn’t happen there could be sooooooo much more leniency with angel and buffy’s age differences and I probably wouldn’t care bc applying irl rules to the supernatural doesn’t make a lot of sense but angel always treats her like a child and says over and over again how wrong it is and THAT is what makes it a problem within this supernatural show bc Spike never treats her like a child or like she isn’t his equal ever no matter what age she is

But unfortunately it makes sense people who like a character whose main personality trait is !catholic guilt! (when he’s got a soul) don’t understand the difference between thoughts and actions and how we should only be defining ourselves and other people by their actions. Because we are not every single thought we’ve ever had both good and bad. If you think to do good things but don’t that does not make you good and if you think to do bad things but don’t that does not make you bad.

So evil Spike thinking a beautiful Buffy dancing with her friends is hot at 16 is not even CLOSE to the same as a supposed to be good angel activity pursuing a relationship with her by breadcrumbing the absolute fuck out of her, manipulating her like crazy and lying to her about practically everything and flirting with her under false pretenses after falling in love at the sight of her looking like a child with her lollipop on the school steps at 15 and then watching her cry in the bathroom mirror as he watches her from the bushes with a smile on his face and hope in his eyes and if you don’t understand that there is literally nothing I can do or say to help you

[thechosenthree]

Thanks to this post I am in my Kendra Young is such a freak <3 feels. Thank you @finalgirl1984 <3

[This went in a completely different direction that I expected, I do love to ramble.]

We talk so much about how by the book Kendra is and how she never got to be a kid or be a teenage girl. She was The Slayer before she was anyone else and before she was ever even actually called as the slayer.

We definitely don’t talk enough about how maybe compared to Buffy, Kendra was a stickler for the rules, but she definitely wasn’t completely by the book!

I saw a comment once about how leaving a vampire locked up to wait for the sun to burn him to ash is definitely not in the slayer handbook. And that’s so true!! She was enjoying it, she was laughing at his attempts at threatening her!! Literally not scared of him for a second. #1 Angel hater who also thinks he’s a loser. And she could have just staked him, she should have staked him, she was the vampire slayer and that is literally her job. But she played with him like a cat hunting a mouse instead and I love her for that.

Like I generally tend to think that Buffy was to Kendra what Faith was to Buffy, but that’s not entirely true?

Both Kendra and Faith were completely accepting of their slayer sides, proud of being slayers and able to enjoy the hunt and the kill in a way that Buffy really struggled with.

I think Kendra and Faith are a lot more alike than I’ve given them credit for? They both try to kill Angel when they first meet him, they are both confused why Buffy wants to protect him and not just stake him. That goes against what they have been taught.

We obviously don’t know much about Faith’s slaying life before coming to Sunnydale, what her watcher was like, or what her training was like. But it’s possible it was a lot more by the book than Buffy’s. Faith watched her watcher be killed in front of her and then shows up in Sunnydale with serious issues with authority.

But the way she is with Gwendolyn Post paints a picture of the way she may have taken to her first watcher. She wanted someone to look out for her and give her guidance. So if she had a watcher she liked and respected, her doing what she was told and being by the book seems likely. She did what Gwendolyn told her to do over listening to Buffy, so we even have evidence in the show for that.

Faith’s training may have been a lot more like Kendra’s than Buffy’s. Of course she didn’t have that watcher training her for very long, just the summer. So she wouldn’t have learned near as much as Kendra, who spent her whole life training for this did.

And whereas Kendra never had a life apart from slaying, Faith didn’t have one worth missing once she was called. There was nothing holding Faith back from full on accepting her destiny and giving her all to it, unlike Buffy.

Buffy had a life before slaying. She got to be a kid, she got to be a girl. She got to live her life without worrying about much. She got to just be. And being the slayer did not mesh with that, her fighting to make both sides of herself fit is a huge part of the show.

Faith is very heavily implied to have been abused by her mother, and who knows what else she went through. She didn’t get to just be a kid, she was dealing with stuff no child should ever have to go through. Being called as a slayer gave her the physical power to fight back. And she embraced that with open arms and did not look back.

The circumstances that preceded Kendra and Faith being called as slayers is obviously very different. But it’s also similar is some ways I hadn’t previously thought about.

Kendra was forged as a weapon, her life was lived in training to be the slayer. Faith was living a life she couldn’t escape from, couldn’t fight back against.

Kendra being called brought everything she’d been taught, everything she’d worked towards into focus. That is what she had always been told she was meant to do. It was her purpose.

Faith being called gave her an out from her old life, gave her the strength and the power to defend herself and fight back. We know she’s never had anyone looking out for her, that she had to take care of herself. In a way, being the slayer gave her a purpose she didn’t know she was looking for.

Neither Kendra or Faith got to just be a kid. They didn’t necessarily know what they were missing when they embraced being a slayer. Kendra literally did not know anything else. And the life Faith knew was definitely nothing worth holding on to.

I think this makes their attitudes towards being slayers compared to Buffy’s make so much sense.

And if we go with the slayerhood as a metaphor for queerness…

Buffy was just living her life and was blindsided figuring something out about herself that she hadn’t been looking for. She didn’t want to be that person, it made her life more difficult. She wanted to go back to a time before she knew this about herself. She was so focused on how much she didn’t want to be the slayer [read: queer] that it took her a long time to acknowledge that she enjoyed it. That it was a part of who she is. And that she liked that about herself. It took her a long time to be proud to call herself the slayer.

We also see that Buffy’s parents were not immediately accepting, and before she actually “came out” they talked to and about her like she was a different person now and like they just wanted her to be who she used to be. And then of course Joyce literally kicks her out of the house when she can’t accept who Buffy is and Buffy refuses to go “back in the closet” to please her. Buffy having internalized slayerphobia makes a lot of sense.

Kendra always knew who she was. She was raised by someone who knew who she was, and who wanted her to be that person. She is proud of who she is, of being a freak. She is so happy to connect with Buffy and not be alone being a freak.

But also looking at how the council is scared of the slayers, and wants to be in control of them, it’s a conditional sort of acceptance. Kendra can be herself as long as she’s useful to the council. Also looking at it this way, her parents knowing who she is and sending her away because of it is an interesting thing to think about.

Faith did not always know who she was. But she likely knew she was different or at least felt like she was. Having an abusive parent will make that clear to you. On top of that the things she implies about her high school experience make it clear she did not have friends or fit in. She was a loner, an outcast, a freak.

Then she found out who she was and everything made sense to her. Faith embraced being a slayer [read: queer] and she was proud of who she is. She enjoyed it, she liked it. And she met Buffy and loved that someone else was a freak with her.

Kendra and Faith genuinely enjoying being slayers and being proud to call themselves freaks in juxtaposition to Buffy who definitely loved not being alone, and finding kindred spirits in the two of them but was also having a hard time liking that part of herself is so interesting.

Makes me wish we’d gotten to see Kendra and Faith meet even more. I used to think they would clash and take a long time to warm up to each other. But now I’m wondering if they wouldn’t be off tying up vamps and enjoying the kill together.

[inconsistentlywrittensoul]

I’m way behind on posting about my rewatch - there’s plenty I do want to say about S2, and there’s a whole essay about gender and Phases that I’m probably never going to write - but I’m into Season 3 and I really want to note how much early S3 establishes the issues that are going to drive Buffy’s long breakdown in seasons 6 and 7.

Firstly, Buffy's tendency to pull away from her friends, feeling she has to take care of everything for herself and protect them from her problems and her feelings rather than sharing them. It’s a consistent pattern, and we see it in her running away at the end of Season 2, and continually refusing to talk about what happened with Angel with both the Scoobies and Faith. When she eventually does try to talk to her assigned school counsellor about Angel, she explicitly says she can’t talk to anyone else about what’s happening (only to find him dead, which I’m sure didn’t help).

Of course, this isn’t just a flaw of Buffy’s - her friends have a pretty big role to play, especially Xander. His sanctimonious, judgemental whining about Buffy leaving, as well as anything to do with Angel, does a lot to push Buffy away. (Not to mention the first thing he does when he finds out Angel is back is try to manipulate Faith into murdering him.) It’s also hard not to suspect that Xander’s lie back in Becoming did a lot of damage - because of that, Buffy thinks even Willow hates Angel and wouldn’t understand her continued feelings for him. ‘Kick his ass’ made Buffy feel like literally no-one is on her side.

Regardless of the reason, here we see the beginning of the split that will make Buffy feel increasingly isolated and unable to trust or rely on anyone as the series continues into the depression years, especially Season 6. But we also see the start of a pattern that will become a central flaw in Season 7 - her inability to express empathy or care for anyone who she sees as a reflection of herself.

I’m actually not talking about Faith here - that’s related, but it’s also a whole can of lesbian worms I don’t want to get into right now. But aside from Faith, in the first few episodes of Season 3 there are two girls who mirror Buffy, specifically in her relationship with Angel. In Anne, we have Lily/Anne, who’s wants to spend the rest of her life with her older boyfriend, who has a criminal past and seems a little crappy but also genuinely loves her and is trying to be good to her, and who ends up being sent to hell. Then in Beauty and the Beasts, we see Abby, who started dating a guy who seemed nice at first, but who turned out to be an abusive monster. Both are very obvious parallels to Buffy in her relationship with Angel (in soul-having and soulless forms), and serve as ways for her reflect on that relationship.

But what I want to focus on is the fact that, while Buffy does try to help both girls, she’s also unusually harsh and unempathetic towards them. Her attitude is ‘This is how things are, and you need to set aside your emotions and just deal with it immediately and without emotional support’; it reflects how she treats herself, but it’s also a pattern in how she treats people whose challenges reflect hers. Which will come to a head in how she treats the Potential slayers in season 7, and the way she alienates everyone around her in part through her treatment of them (and therefore also her treatment of herself).

It’s just interesting to see these issues that will dominate the last couple of seasons come across so strongly in this early part of Season 3.

[vampandvisiongirl]

My Angel (The Series) Rewatch

I'll start by saying this:

This is the first time I have seen these episodes since they originally aired.

I rewatched all of seasons 1-3. Because season 4 is….season 4, I rewatched 4x1 - 4x6, 4x10, 4x17, & 4x22. I’m skipping season 5 except "You're Welcome". I read the gist of season 5 for my memory and I remember snippets of it when it aired.

Angel & Cordelia were my OTP back then & that remains (probably even more so now that I have finished the rewatch and I am an adult now lol)

NOW (This may be lengthy, but I have alot to say)

We all know now (as much as we can know as outsiders) what really went down between Charisma & Joss. I think David Greenwalt's departure didn't help things. Lots to be said about the season 4 storyline for Cordelia (& Angel) vs its original rumored intent. LOTS. But that's neither here nor there. I'd like to shine a light on the following from what was actually aired.

Seasons 1-3 built up an incredible story for Angel & Cordelia that turned from acquaintances/semi-friends (on BTVS) to coworkers to friends to falling in love with each other.

Angel identifies Cordelia as his home. Almost the second he returned in 4x01, he told Connor "What you deserve rests on one answer. Did you do something to Cordelia?" This man, who holds his son above everyone. He tells Fred & Gunn he kept telling himself "I gotta get home to Cordelia."

He returns and he does everything to find her. In "Awakening", he dreams of being with her, together, and being okay with Connor and you realize that, underneath the terrible circumstances of season 4, there is a theme here. Home, for Angel, is with Cordelia & Connor.

He was a second too late in killing "Evil Cordelia" before she could give birth. And I wonder if that's something he really would have been able to do. Because he didn't do it, did he?

In 4x22, Wolfram & Hart offer the deal. He's not buying it. Lilah mentions the first assignment would be visiting Sunnydale and providing the amulet. He says "Buffy can take care of herself" and that he's not taking the deal. As soon as Lilah mentions they can find Cordelia & Connor, Angel stops. Now Connor endangers himself and Cordelia (Angel's' face when he sees Cordelia is strapped is heartbreaking). Angel & Connor fight. He takes the deal to give Connor a new life and to save Cordelia.

Season 5, he loses his way. He's lost without Cordelia. A shell. Unhappy. Guess who comes back to him? Connor & Cordelia, even for flitting moments. And who brings him back on his path? Cordelia. With a kiss. Because she loves him. "She set me on the path."

With the absurdity of season 4, I am so grateful we got Charisma/Cordelia back to fix it, even for one episode. Of course, I would have loved more and I probably would have watched all of season 5 if she was in it but, alas, can't change the past.

All this to say, Angel loved Cordelia and he loved Connor as he would love his wife & son ( Well, Connor is his son but you know what I mean).

He holds Connor & Cordelia as his most dear & don't you ever forget it.

And I choose to believe Angel & Cordelia got their life after the finale, with Connor involved a teensy bit maybe, we just didn't get to see it.

“Can’t fight Kyrumption, cinnamon buns. It’s fate. It’s the stars.”

*Lorne voice* That's all, folks.

*drops mic*

[reality-schmality]

I so so wish the Ben/Glory connection had been explored more. Just in small ways. For example, if he had gotten that coffee with Buffy so we could hear a get-to-know-you conversation about where he was from, why he moved to Sunnydale, what growing up with his “sister” (as he referred to Glory when talking to Dawn) was like. Hearing his opinion of Glory as expressed to someone who wasn’t a minion or himself, would have added a lot to his character.

Because as it stands, Ben is a rather empty character. He’s got a backbone/mean streak and he’s willing to get his hands dirty to clean up Glory’s messes, but other than summoning the queller and stabbing Jinx, he’s pretty much defined by a poor me, I’m not her spiel in between black outs when he becomes something incredibly evil.

Which is so similar to the Angel/Angelus relationship. Angel does very little more than whine and brood. He’s got a backbone/mean streak, obviously, and a hell of a lot more screen time, so he is fleshed out more, at least in comparison to Ben. We do know his motivations more than we do Ben’s, but they’re still so cut and dry: Someone convinced him to get his act together and then he falls in love. He’s not all that deep.

The main difference between them is that Angel remembers everything Angelus did. Ben and Glory are two different entities forced to share one body. Ben is an innocent being tortured by this arrangement as much as Glory is the subject of initial punishment. Angel and Angelus are the same person, so there’s no veil shielding them, and the whole point of his curse is to torture him with the memories. Angel is not an innocent caught in a web; he’s the byproduct of the punishment.

I’m genuinely not sure if the writers meant to create this parallel. Especially with Buffy feeling romantic interest for both of the “good” people in each arrangement. But it’s a fascinating comparison, this Janus, two-face archetype that the narrative keeps returning to. Buffy is a righteous champion, but her power comes from the essence of demons. Spike never pretends he’s not a monster, yet he finds himself constantly falling in with the “right” crowd, and, of course, he seeks out his soul; he initiates his own surface-level two-face situation. Willow always thinks she’s a pillar of good intentions and love, but the darkness is lurking just below the surface the whole time, starting with hacking into government agencies as a 16 year old and expanding to ending the world fueled by grief.

I’m running out of steam now, but I genuinely think I can talk about this for ages.

[coraniaid]

The more I think about it the more it feels like the Watcher's Council really should have been the big threat of Buffy's fourth season, rather than the Initiative.

I mean, think about the precedents:

The focus of Season 1 is on Buffy coming to terms with having to be the Slayer and what that means for the rest of her life, but this season also introduces the character of Angel and establishes that he is a vampire with a soul, a long history of violence and with strong personal connections to other vampires. It even raises the possiibility of Buffy having to kill him. And the conversation Buffy and her friends have towards the end of the episode, when she thinks Angel attacked her mother, pretty much foreshadows the main plot of the second half of Season 2:

Xander: "Buff, it's not your fault." Buffy: "No? I knew who he was, what he was, and didn't do anything about it. Because I had feelings for him, because I cared about him…" Willow: "if you care about somebody. you care about them. You can't change that by--" Buffy: "Killing them? Maybe not, but I think it's a start."

[Season 1's "Angel" foreshadows the plot of Season 2]

Then in Season 2, while the focus is on Angelus and Drusilla and Spike, the season also introduces a couple of things that will be incredibly important next season. Namely the fact that there's now a second active Slayer in the world -- and while Kendra never really gets a proper character arc of her own, Buffy's reaction to realizing she exists anticipates a lot of her reaction to meeting Faith -- and also the fact that Sunnydale's political establishment knows a lot more about the supernatural than they've been letting on:

Snyder: "This is getting out of hand. People will talk." Police chief: "You'll take care of it." Snyder: "I'm doing everything I can, but you people have to realize … we're on a Hellmouth. Pretty soon people are going to figure that out." Police chief: "The city council was told that you could handle this job. If you feel that you can't, perhaps you'd like to take that up … with the Mayor."

[Season 2's "I Only Have Eyes For You" foreshadows the plot of Season 3]

And then we get to Season 3, where yes, the Mayor and a rogue Slayer are the driving force of the plot. But this season also introduces for the first time the idea that Giles isn't just a Watcher, he's a (fairly junior!) member of a formal organization called the Watcher's Council. And we see that the Council are large and bureaucratic, that they know about demons and vampires but are prone to underestimate them, and that not only are their goals not always aligned with the Slayer but their leadership is personally at odds with her. We even see that the Council like to capture vampires (for tests!) rather than killing them. And Wesley gives us an idea of what life is like for those Watchers who don't have a Slayer to monitor:

Wesley: "Of course, training protocols have been updated quite a bit since your day. Much greater emphasis on field work." Giles: "Really?" Wesley: "Oh, yes. Not all books and theory nowadays. I have, in fact, faced two vampires myself. In controlled conditions, of course."

[Season 3's "Bad Girls" foreshadows …?]

And then the plot of Season 4 relies on the existence of exactly such an organization, "fighting a war" against demons and vampires without any Slayer involvement while being suspicious of and hostile toward Buffy and her friends. But for reason this organization is not the Council. It's ... a group we've never met or heard about before, who haven't been foreshadowed at all.

Wouldn't it just make so much more sense, internally, for the Council to start to place an even greater emphasis on 'field work' and send out its own agents to capture and study vampires as a result of Buffy quitting at the end of Season 3? Rather than the weird retcon that the Army have been running tests underneath the campus of Sunnydale U for months without anybody noticing, and somehow without finding out anything about the Slayer who lives directly on their doorsteps? Wouldn't Professor Walsh make a lot more sense as a character if she were a Watcher who knew all along that Buffy was the Slayer and didn't trust her because she'd quit the Council?

And we even see later (in this season's Who Are You?) that the Council has a paramilitary wing! Why does Season 4 need two separate pseudo-military organizations who hunt demons and run tests on vampires and don't like Buffy Summers?

[trillscienceofficer]

“In the first year [of Star Trek: Voyager] I talked with [executive producer] Jeri Taylor about directing,” Roxann Dawson recalls her own route to the director's chair. “I had directed in the theater and I just liked bossing people around! I wanted to give it a try but I honestly didn't know if I'd like it. I told Jeri I'd love to learn, if they'd give me the opportunity. Then she and Rick Berman opened up Director in Training.” Over the course of seven seasons, [Robert Duncan] McNeill and Dawson, along with fellow VOYAGER cast members Tim Russ and Robert Picardo all helmed at least one episode of the show as directors. The process of swapping Starfleet uniform for megaphone involved going back to school. “We had DiT school,” explains prolific VOYAGER director David Livingston. “‘Director in Training,’ where Rick Berman would allow actors and crew to go through a training program, observing as much of production and post-production as their schedules would allow, showing a commitment to study. Even though I went to film school, I had never directed on a large scale until I got to STAR TREK. Rick offered me that opportunity.”

[...]

“I became a Director in Training and I could go into everything,” adds Dawson. "I observed other shows that were shooting at Paramount. I did so much observing, I would be on an all-nighter downtown in Los Angeles on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, then come into work on VOYAGER at 4am so I could take a nap. I learned a lot and put myself out there.” “Roxann would come and sit with me in the editing room,” remembers Livingston. “She was very observant, asked a lot of questions and it was clear she knew exactly what was going on. Roxann recognized that she needed to go through the process to be grounded, not only in the aesthetics of how to do this, but the technical aspects of it. I respected and admired her for that.” While directing his first episode of VOYAGER during season 6, John Bruno remembers Dawson's observant approach to DiT school: “I had one day on set in the conference room when I was shooting two overlapping cameras. Roxann was standing beside me, looking over my shoulder at my storyboards. I explained what I was doing, and then I realized she was going to direct a show. She was following me, and I didn't really know what I was doing!”

[...]

“The reason I started directing later [in the course of the show] is because I was pregnant and we waited until after I gave birth in order for me to start,” says Dawson, whose first directing assignment was the early season 6 episode ‘Riddles’. “How prepared can you be for something you've never done before? You can prepare and prepare and prepare, but if it's an experience you've never had before, for somebody who really likes to be prepared, it's torture. There are a million scenarios that you'll be facing, things that you couldn't possibly have prepared for because you had no idea and no experience. It's learning to deal with all that with grace under pressure.”

[...]

“You're with people that you love and want you to succeed,” Dawson says of the support she received from her fellow VOYAGER ensemble. “It made me a better actor. I began to understand that I'm not just dealing with this part of the pie, but the entire pie. All of a sudden there were so many moving parts of which I was this much a part of. Often, actors need to be myopic, they need to concentrate on what they're doing and I respect that. But as a director, I've come to respect and understand those insecurities, understand that actors need to do that in order to show up and do the job. But at the same time, I've had payback. I've been on the other side, I've paid my dues in terms of actors doing things that have cost me time and money and face. On every level! I've had payback because in the beginning I was one of those actors who judged every director that came in.”

[...]

“After the first time I directed, I was in so much physical pain, there was so much pressure I didn't know if I wanted to continue with it,” Dawson honestly recalls the aftermath of directing ‘Riddles’. “That was a learning experience. I would call my husband after the first few episodes I did and let him know if it was a two Advil day or a six Advil day. I literally was in physical pain!”

[...]

“After I did my first episode,” remembers Dawson, “Rick Berman came up to me at the wrap party for that season and said he liked ‘Riddles’. ‘So I'm going to give you another opportunity to fail.’ It was the oddest wording, I will never, ever forget that!” Dawson subsequently directed ‘Workforce, Part II’ during season 7, and has since become a highly sought-after director on some of modern television's biggest shows. “I just fell in love with it,” Dawson say[s], looking back. “It was trial by fire, especially moving out of this STAR TREK world into the rest of the world that didn't care whether you succeeded or not. Now it's a complete and utter joy. I love directing and I have loved it for a long time. I'm so glad and so grateful to Rick Berman and Jeri Taylor, who gave me this opportunity and literally changed my life.”

From “Star Trek: Voyager - A Celebration” by Ben Robinson (2020)

[hello-nichya-here]

Just watched final episodes of Buffy and my spuffy heart is insanely happy about Spike's speech in touched and how Buffy finally seems to understand just how much she means to him.

And you right, the Bangel kiss was so forced and Buffy basically told him to get out of her show 'cause she had a new man lmaoooo

Spuffy in "Touched" is on a whole other level of greatness. Everything about Spike's speech to Buffy is perfect.

For starters, Spike told off everyone for being absolute dicks to Buffy and daring to kick her out of her own home and wander through a completely apocalyptic Sunnydale by herself. Not wanting to go along with her plan was one thing, but stabbing her in the back like that was horrible - and Spike calling them a bunch of sad traitors was PERFECT (plus, him giving Giles a piece of his mind after the plot to kill him was so satisfying).

Spike is just so sweet to Buffy during the entire conversation - with the ocasional "You're insufferable for not believing how awesome you are" and "Want me to kill Faith for you? 'Cause I would totally kill Faith for you."

(Compared to the time Angel told Buffy to get out of his show because he had a new slayer girlfriend, and it's just soooo clear who Buffy and Angel should be dating instead of each other XD)

The most important part of the speech is not even how it makes Buffy understand the depth of Spike's love for her, but how, like he said, he truly understands her like no one else did.

"I love what you are, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength, I've seen the absolute best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy"

Spike was Buffy's sworn enemy, reluctant ally, willing ally and supportive friend, toxic boyfriend, sweet boyfriend she mistreated, and now he is her champion, the one that will help her save the world - again. OF COURSE he knows her in a way nobody else did.

Him calling her "the one" - both as in "his one true love" and "the chosen one" - is also perfect, because Buffy's entire conflict is feeling she will never have a fullfiling life, with meaningful relationships, because, like the first slayer said "The slayer doesn't walk this world" and "death is your gift." She fears she's too much of a hero to be a person.

And then in comes Spike. The dude that regularly calls her just "Slayer." The guy she's treated worse than she ever treated anyone else (including herself, which is saying a lot) BECAUSE of her struggly to deal with being the Slayer AND in love with anyone, let alone a souless vampire.

And he just embraces both sides of her. The kind, vulnerable girl longing for connection. The ruthless, powerful hero that doesn't need anyone. He LOVES both sides of her.

But, more importantly, said love is at it's most selfless on that moment.

"I'm not asking you for anything. When I say I love you, it's not 'cause I want you, or 'cause I can't have you. It's got nothing to do with me"

It doesn't matter that Buffy isn't perfect, that she mistreated him in the past, that she feels she doesn't deserve him. Hell, it doesn't even matter if she can't reciprocate Spike's feelings (even though we know she does). He still loves her, and his love will always be hers regardless of anything and everything.

Spike is being incredibly honest and vulnerable in this scene - and it allows Buffy to finally accept not only his love for her, but to give him her heart too.

I've already said over and over that I don't think Seeing Red worked, but my God, it is such a big deal to have Buffy ask Spike to come to bed with her after it, especially since the episode deliberately compares it too all the other couples in the show having sex. It's the proof that she has not only forgiven him, but also managed to fully trust him to never hurt her again (remember her saying to Giles "You sent away the one person who's been watching my back" and her chosing him as her champion instead of Angel).

But THE thing that makes me insane about this moment, and that the Spuffy fandom surprisingly doesn't talk about nearly enough, is the implications of their conversation about their night of cuddles.

Everyone is always going on and on about how that was the best night of Spike's life, and how that would have been his moment of "perfect happiness" if he was under the same curse as Angel - yet I haven't seen nearly enough people going crazy over tha fact that Buffy then confirms to Spike that SHE FELT THE SAME WAY, IT MEANT JUST AS MUCH AS IT DID TO HIM.

Buffy went through hell that night, as being pushed away by all of her loved ones confirmed her worst fears - and it was still what led to her moment of "perfect happiness" just because Spike was there to support her through it all. She even goes as far as saying she only got the weapon that will help her defeat the bad guy because of the strength Spike gave her that night.

Also, the way she gently touches his face during that talk, AAAAAAHHHHHHH!

Anyways, they are soulmates and if you don't agree, you're wrong.

[spnfanficpond]

New Member Spotlight - December 2023

The Pond is always growing and we want to make our new members feel welcome! Here’s a list of recent additions to our fishy family, along with a little info about them!

Guppies, Jellies, and Mutuals, oh, my!

@mayalaen -

Other SM names? - Mayalaen on AO3, Discord, Twitter, Bluesky, LiveJournal, Dreamwidth, etc.

OTP? - I'm a multishipper so no true OTP.

Other fandoms? - Mostly Stranger Things, OFMD, Stargate SGA/SG1, Star Trek, X-FIles, and Angel the Series/Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but I'm interested in a lot of fandoms.

Looking for in the Pond? - I like to encourage people to write and create and I like to make friends in fandom. I was referred to the Pond for that by some members.

Something to signal boost? - I run a monthly writing/art challenge on AO3 called SPNColdestHits that you guys have already been boosting (THANK YOU!!). It's multifandom now and accepts art and original fic, not just fanfic. This is the AO3 collection link and of course, we're @spncoldesthits here on Tumblr, but we're also on Discord, Twitter, Bluesky, and Pillowfort.

Pairings you read? - I'll read pretty much any pairing, poly or otherwise. I'm not interested in reader insert, but I've read some.

Genres you read? - I prefer darkfic and/or kink, but I read anything.

Favorite writer(s)? - Xanthe Walter, but they haven't been active in fandom for about 2 years now.

What do you like to write? - My favorite is darkfic, D/S AU, and kink, but I also love writing crack and all other genres.

Masterlist!

Most underappreciated fic? - It's newer but it has the least amount of hits from the list of non-crack/non-gift fics and is an SPN/Blacklist crossover. Caging the Mongoose.

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? - I really would like to write some SPN/HDM fusions. I keep toying with the idea, but have never posted any of them. I always work better when I have prompts or ideas from others to spur me on.

.@leatafandom -

Other SM names? - @leatawrites, Leata (AO3 and Discord)

OTP? - Sabriel

Other fandoms? - Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Marvel, BBC Merlin, Star Trek, Doctor Who

Looking for in the Pond? - I could use some help with tags and challenging myself to write different things.

Pairings you read? - Ships, Gens, Poly fics

Genres you read? - Angst is my favorite but fluff and smut are always wonderful

Favorite writer(s)? - Yes, @idabbleincrazy on Tumblr or Gabriel_is_my_guardian_angel89 on Ao3

What do you like to write? - Angst, Horror, Smut, Bittersweet/Sad Things

Masterlist!

Most underappreciated fic? - My most underappreciated story is probably one of my original horror short stories. My most underappreciated fanfic is probably Becoming One,Two, and One Again.

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? -I really would like to write more horror however I feel like I struggle with expressing fear, scenery/detail descriptions, and word choice

@oganizediguana -

Other SM names? - Oganizediguana on Discord

OTP? - Destiel

Other fandoms? - I tiptoe through many fandoms, but SPN is my home. Good Omens

Looking for in the Pond? - I’d love to get encouragement for writing and the confidence to share my work. But I’d also love to just meet interesting people.

Pairings you read? - 99% destiel

Genres you read? - I read it all, but mutual pining slow burn is what makes me feel all the things. I love a good canon-compliant AU. I’m happy with anything that ends happily. Or at least hopefully.

Favorite writer(s)? - On AO3: NorthernSparrow, tenoko1, saltnhalo, there are so many amazing authors in this fandom!

What do you like to write? - Everything seems to turn into angst.

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? - I’d like the confidence to share what I have written.

@dragonslayer-5fanfiction -

Other SM names? - Ao3- Dragonslayer5

Other fandoms? - haikyuu, daria, lotr/the hobbit, tmnt

Looking for in the Pond? - I just want to make friends and read good fanfic. I like to beta read. Maybe write some fanfic, but I have writer's block rn.

Pairings you read? - Reader insert

Genres you read? - Fluff, crack. One bed, and arranged marriage forced proximity tropes.

What do you like to write? - Reader inserts. Fluff.

Masterlist! AO3 Works list

Most underappreciated fic? - Do You Think About Me? (not SPN)

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? -Honestly, writing two characters from the Fandom. I typically stick to reader insert, and I'm a little scared I won't get the characteristics right or the dynamic.

That's all for this month, folks! (If we're missing anyone, let us know and we'll add them to next month's list!) Make sure to say hi to the newbies and make them feel welcome! Thanks to all from @manawhaat, @mrswhozeewhatsis, @mariekoukie6661, @thoughtslikeaminefield, @katbratsupernaturalwhore and @heavenssexiestangel!

[drvcxrys]

hello (: so finally this is my starter call/plot call. slowly i'm going to post all my outfits for my characters and you can find them here. i'm going to be capping at 4 per muse so ask away :D

prob not going or maybe just lurking outside the ball or something:

annabeth chase: thalia grace or clarisse la rue

jean grey

malia tate

samantha carpenter: tara carpenter

yelena belova.

alice cullen going solo.

she really doesn't need a date to just have fun. right now alice wanted just to have an excuse to wear a very nice outfit for the night because let's be honest, everything is an excuse when it comes to shopping and buy something pretty to wear. thread (2/4): yoon chi woo, apple

alice jones/tilly going with robin hood-mills.

she just wants to have a blast with her fiance, just enjoying their date night with no worries about anything else. of course she might just look around and explore a bit from time to time as well. thread (0/4):

alicent hightower going with ridoc (blind date)

she doesn't know how she ended up doing this but she decided to just be out of her comfort zone and see what the night lead her, she just want a night for herself to relax a bit because work has been stressful as well so this was perfect for doing that. thread (0/4):

anna of arendelle going with kristoff bjorgman

she's very touched that kristoff decided to go with her here, it's been a while since they actually get to be in a ball and she kind of miss those interactions. anna is a very social person so honestly she would love to meet new people as well and just enjoy herself. thread (2/4): xie lian, elsa

annie cresta going with finnick odair

annie loves the idea of spending time with her husband so being here with him is just fantastic so she's going to try and take advantage of this night to just having a good time and trying to be as social as she can as well. thread (0/4):

betty cooper going with ning yingying (blind date)

she wasn't expecting doing this at all but she wanted to try and get out of her comfort zone and this blind date was a good thing in a way, so she just want to have a good time here, that was all, being social because that's why she's here, for being social. thread (1/4): lee jordan

beverly marsh going with peter hale

this is her chance to just let loose and relax a bit and what better way than with her boyfriend? she's going with peter and her idea is just to have fun and trying to forget about almost everything. of course that besides that she's also going to be very social even wanting to meet new people and interact with others. thread (0/4):

bianca di angelo going with lucerys velaryon

this is her first time in an event like this, she's not used to a ball or dressing up to go to one but she wanted to try and give this a chance, she's going to have a bit in a awe about some things that's for sure, especially about some new things in this place. thread (1/4): - parvati patil

bree tanner going with diego

she just wants to spend her time with diego now that she has her in her life once again, this time was the perfect opportunity for that because this seems like a very fun event. however, now that she will be with a lot of humans in the room she might try to have more control than ever, she was able to have that control until now but she's still new about this so is still hard. thread (0/4):

buffy summers going with angel

buffy loves to put a nice outfit and going to dance, to interact with people so this is the perfect opportunity for that, hoping that maybe everything is going to stay like that for the moment, that's what she would love, a night off from the supernaturals and the sources of evil and all of that. thread (0/4):

caroline forbes going with stefan salvatore

she's all over the moon about this, being here with stefan was perfect considering she never thought that she was ever going to see him again so this was just perfect for her. and besides, she loves these events so much, she loves planning them of course but she also just loves going to them as well. thread (1/4): - josie saltzman

carrie white going with dorothy gale

last time she went to an event like this one ended up really badly so she didn't know about being here but dorothy told her and she is starting to trust some people so she decided to give this a chance, she's very shy and a bit reserved so it's gonna be hard to open up but she will try to do that and give this night an opportunity. thread (0/4):

choi nam ra going with evangeline ennar (blind date)

she never thought that she was going to put herself in this blind date thing but she did, maybe to be out of her comfort zone, to try something new so that's why she was here and she wants to just spend her night in a fun way, without caring much about anything else, like a regular girl. thread (0/4):

claudia going with abigail blyg

this is new. she loves a good party but she never expected to go with someone here but she is not upset about this, she's just enjoying herself right now and she will try to do just that, enjoy herself and her time here, trying not to cause too much chaos at least. thread (0/4):

clove kentwell going with cato hadley

not her ideal scenario but she decided to just go and going with cato was a plus so at least she wasn't alone here, at least that was something. she's going to try and relax a bit here but who knows, since this is not her type of scenario she just feels a bit out of place at times. thread (0/4):

daenerys targaryen going with nehemia ygter

this is a very nice place to be in. she must to admit that she's a bit excited to be here with nehemia, it's not her first time in an event like this one but still she's not used to events in this place so she will just try to enjoy the night and forget about everything with her date. thread (1/4): - nehemia

daphne bridgerton going with simon basset

a night off with her husband now that he remembers everything? of course. she's very excited about this. this is really daphne scenario, she loves a ball, dancing, putting a nice dress...it's like back home so she will really enjoy this night. thread (1/4): diana

elizabeth midford going with ciel phantomhive

this is like back home, she loves to dress up and going to an event like this, especially if she's going here with ciel because let's face it, she might've insisted a bit for him to take care, her mission is to make him have a good time as well because she knows that she will have a good time here. thread (0/4):

emma swan going with silco (blind date)

this is new for her because honestly is not like she enjoys the idea of a blind date and she's not sure this is even going to work but she decided to go and just enjoying her night here, that was all, she deserve this kind of break after everything that happened here in washington. thread (0/4):

gwen stacy going solo

she enjoys something to distract herself so this was perfect, she has been alive for a month or so and she's trying to adjust so this was the perfect opportunity. thread (0/4):

hanna marin going with ahura boltagon

she's not holding any king of hope to this blind date because honestly she is not really the type of girl that do that but she ended up doing this anyway just to see how it goes. but one thing is for sure, she will really going to enjoy her time here because she loves those type of events, she really loves to put a nice outfit and going there. thread (2/4): - emily fields, charlotte dilaurentis

heidi volturi going solo

she wasn't going at first but she ended up going mostly because maybe just maybe she could even hunt in here, it could be a good buffet in her eyes so she was going to see, basically is that. thread (1/4): lu junyi

hermione granger going with harry potter

she really wants to have a good night here just a night off from everything but besides that, she thought this could be the perfect opportunity for harry and her to talk about some things that happened before maybe and see how that goes as well. thread (1/4): cho chang

hope mikaelson going with landon kirby

now that finally she has landon with her, she's so happy that she's able to go with him to a ball like this and that everything finally seems okay so even if this is not her type of event, she just wants to have fun with her boyfriend and friends too. thread (0/4):

isabelle lightwood going with simon lewis

she really enjoys this type of events because she can dress to impress and she just loves that. being here with her fiance was just perfect because finally they can do something out of their routine, having a night off. just in case though, she will always be alert because who knows what can also might happen here. thread (2/4): max lightwood, jester

jane going solo

she really enjoys this type of dance, dressing up and just being able to enjoy herself so she's going to do that or at least try to do that in this place hopefully nothing really is going to ruin that. thread (0/4):

jessica riley going with mike munroe

this was the perfect night for them to just have some fun like good old times. this was her second chance to live once again so she's going to take advantage of this at full. thread (0/4)

jill roberts going with billy loomis

it's been a while since she goes to an event like this one and honestly she's kind of excited about this because it would be the perfect date night, not really thinking about anything else but this and just have a good moment. thread (0/4)

kagome higurashi going solo

she decided to go to this valentine's mini gala because she was basically bored so she decided to try something new and that's why basically she was here to try and be more social as well. thread (0/4)

kara danvers going solo

she likes the idea of being here and distract herself from everything that's been happening in washington. but she's also here just in case something bad might happen, she's always on guard just in case but she is going to try and have a good time as well. thread (0/4)

katara going solo

she wants to do something new so that's why she's here, trying to be social and interact with people as well, just blend in, in general, she's here to just have a good time. thread (0/4)

leslie macher going with feirge (blind date)

this is new to her, blind date and all, but she decided to give it a try, trying something new is something that she likes to do so she's very determinate to have a good time and just forget about everything else that might be troubling her. thread (0/4)

lila pitts going with diego hargreeves

this is what people call normal and it's something they were actually looking for, trying to be normal for a change so being in this mini gala was something perfect for them to just let loose and enjoy their time here. thread (0/4)

lissa dragomir going with isaac lahey

that's something she's used to, she likes about being here and just trying to a good time, it's the first time that she celebrates valentines here so she's wondering how is going to be the event, she's curious about it. thread (0/4)

lucy gray baird going solo

a dance, an event like this is something she actually enjoys. now that finally she's free, she wants to try and just have a good time, that's all without caring much about anything else and just enjoying herself. thread (1/4): tigris snow

mary stuart going solo

mary enjoys this kind of events, and the museum seems nice to just explore a bit and see what this place has to offer. thread (2/4) - chu wanning, jane

myrcella baratheon going with baela targaryen

she feels so excited to be here, especially with baela because she likes her very much and she's so happy that they can do this together. she's here to just have a good time, explore the place and being social as well with people around her. thread (0/4)

nancy wheeler going with steve harrington

nancy is really hoping that this valentine is going to be calm and not like the last one but for now she's happy she can be here with steve, she wants to have a good night here, being with her friends. thread (0/4)

narcissa black going with rabastan lestrange

being here with rabastan was just perfect especially because they've been looking for a way to just enjoy a bit of calmness and just a good night and relaxing as well, so in her eyes this was perfect, at least for now. thread (0/4)

rachel amber going with jessica stanley (blind date)

she is unsure about this, this is her first time going in a blind date but she decided to have a good night and just enjoying herself here, not really her scenario after everything that happened in arcadia bay but she might try to get out of her comfort zone. thread (0/4)

rapunzel corona going solo

this is going to be a fun night for her and just trying to enjoy herself and since she's like a social butterfly she will be interacting with people, just dancing and exploring the museum as well. thread (1/4): wei wuxian

regina george going with emily davis (blind date)

this is really something she enjoys to do, being in this mini gala is perfect to dress to impress and be the queen she is. this blind date seems interesting as well so she's going to play nice or as nice as she can be and see how it goes everything. thread (0/4)

rhaena targaryen going solo

this a very nice event, she's here just to have a great time and she doesn't really mind about being here alone, she just wants to explore this place and even meet new people as well. thread (0/4)

sakura kinomoto going solo

sakura is in awe about those type of things, she is just sad that her best friend tomoyo is not here with her or that syaron is also not here but she's going to try and enjoy her night here and especially meet people and be social because she's a very social person. thread (0/4)

santana lopez going with brittany pierce

being here with brittany was perfect, she really loves the company of her and she just wants to spend the best night with her, that's all. she's going to be there dancing, drinking and just having a blast. thread (0/4)

sara lance going with fiona gallagher

honestly for sara being here with someone she likes is perfect, usually she flirts a lot more with girls but this time is a bit different because she actually is smitten by fiona so she is going to spend her night mostly drinking, dancing with her and if there is kissing perhaps. but she would also be social with people if she bumps into someone she knows or if she bumps into someone in general because she's basically a talker. thread (2/4) - ava, hunter

tohru honda going solo

this is her first mini gala event so she's very excited. she misses her friends, of course, but she decided to try and distract herself going and of course she's going to also try and just socialize with people in general. thread (0/4)

usagi tsukino going solo

she is going alone basically because she can't see herselg going in some type of gala without mamoru, it makes her sad he's not here or her other friends are not here as well but she decided to try and have a good time, at least this time she's not that alone here considering setsuna is also around. she's going to be a social butterfly here as well. thread (0/4)

veruca salt going solo

this is the perfect opportunity to show off her dress, accesories and everything that she was able to buy for this special occasion and also the perfect opportunity for her to meet new people as well. thread (0/4):

victoire weasley going with teddy lupin

a date night with teddy is something she honestly would love so much to do so this was just the perfect opportunity. she feels this night is going to be perfect to just enjoy herself, being with the people she loves and relax herself as well. thread (1/4): scorpius malfoy

wednesday addams going with louis weasley

honestly, she didn't want to go but after louis insisting a lot, like really a lot, she ended up accepting but is not like she's happy about it, she's just going to be herself and trying to enjoy herself just how she is, that was all. thread (0/4)

win wanichakarnjonkul going with team siriyothin

being here with team was perfect, win really loves the idea of having some kind of date night in this mini gala with him and just enjoying themselves, he's very happy about this. thread (0/4)

[jennycalendar]

i think a lot about a note on innocence -- i don't remember where i saw it -- pointing out that angelus knew to kill enyos, and that he also knew jenny's secret identity. this isn't something that the show draws particular attention to, and one must assume that some of it is about narrative convenience/building tension, but this particular note suggested that angelus's knowledge of enyos in turn implies that angel himself knew why jenny was really in sunnydale.

and this is not strictly canonical of course, so everything following is all supposition, but it's a notion that i kind of can't let go of, because the delicious, awful tragedy of that! that angel knew jenny's secret, and kept it! that buffy very likely never learned this, and resented jenny for keeping a secret that ANGEL WAS ALSO KEEPING! just this idea of there being no one single person to blame. all of these little threads tangling together. angel keeps his mouth shut about jenny because it's her business and he's a gentleman. whether or not jenny knows is immaterial -- maybe she does, and maybe this is part of why she believes in his capacity to do good. to be better. that he doesn't out her to buffy and giles because he knows what it's like to have a complicated past. to be afraid of what your partner will think of you when they know the parts of you that you've hidden in a lockbox under your bed.

and because angel doesn't tell anyone, buffy doesn't know that he knew. blames jenny for not telling. but jenny wasn't the only one who kept her mouth shut -- and the one person that buffy never blames is in some ways just as responsible for jenny's perceived betrayal.

[ravenya003]

Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Welcome to the Hellmouth, S01E01

My 2024 Buffy the Vampire Slayer rewatch starts NOW!

Before I jump in, here’s some quick housekeeping:

I’ll endeavour to do this on a weekly basis; watching an episode on Saturday night and writing up a post on Sunday.

I’m not going to worry about spoilers. This show was as good as it was because of how interconnected the themes and storylines were, so if something in season one reminds me of something in season seven, I’m going to mention it.

This is the first time I’ve watched this show (probably) since high school, and it’s almost certainly the first time I’ve watched it from start to finish. It’s actually rather dizzying in this age of eight episode shows that get cancelled after two seasons to consider there are one hundred and forty-four episodes of Buffy that span seven years.

Obviously I am not unaware of Joss Whedon’s mistreatment of others on the set of Buffy, and where it seems relevant I’ll bring it up. But I also don’t think it’s fair to the rest of the cast and crew to throw the entire show under the bus because of one person, especially when it had such a huge (positive) impact on so many lives.

For the record, my favourite ships are Willow/Oz, Giles/Jenny and Spike/Drusilla. My purpose in pointing this out is to make clear that I don’t watch this show to see what true love looks like, but to watch a close-knit band of social misfits fight the forces of evil together. To me, the heart of this show is the friendship between Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles. The show is always at its strongest when it’s focusing on the four of them, and most of the love stories just don’t interest me that much.

Once season three is over, I’ll start alternating between Buffy and Angel episodes.

Okay, let’s get to it.

First of all, I was not prepared for how dated everything looks and sounds. Naturally my most recent memories of Buffy are watching the later seasons, when there’s cellphones and internet access and fashion choices that wouldn’t seem out of place today – but season one looks like a different era entirely.

There are some references that have dated amusingly (Cordelia and Buffy bond over their shared appreciation for James Spader), some that I didn’t get at all (who’s John Tesh? What’s Debarge?) and a few synthesized musical cues that are straight out of the nineties.

I had forgotten that the Cold Open involves Julie Benz as Darla, and that show-defining twist when it turns out that she’s the vampire and not her predatory date. Ah, Red Shirt #1 played by Carmine Giovinazzo – you have the distinction of being this show’s first victim. I salute you.

Also, it’s amusing to think that we had no idea just how important Darla would end up being to the franchise’s lore. She’s just a standard vampire minion at this early stage, though I do like the fact that she was presumably cast to look a bit like Buffy.

And of course, it all starts at good old Sunnydale High.

Our first glimpse of Buffy Summers begins with her in the middle of a nightmare, which... girl, get used to this plot device. This one is a bit more muddled than her later dreams, made up of a bunch of clips that’ll be used in later episodes that culminate in the Master, the season’s Big Bad.

I had to smile at the sight of those yellow school buses pulling up at the front of Sunnydale High. Buffy may not arrive at school in one of these things, but seven years later, she’s sure as hell going to leave in one.

Joyce – and later on, Angel – are both perfect examples of Characterization Marches On regarding the fact the writers’ room hasn’t quite settled on their personalities yet. In Joyce’s case, she comes across as a lot more flaky than in later appearances.

Oh, and here’s Xander, riding in on a skateboard that we’ll never see him use again across the entire run of the series. I get that he’s a very contentious character in the annals of the show, and though I’m certainly not going to let him off the hook for his occasional (frequent?) shitty behaviour, I also think I’m fonder of him than the average fan.

Honestly, I think Joss Whedon doomed him a little when he stated that Xander was the character most based on him in high school. Suddenly all his entitled, chauvinist behaviour was re-evaluated through the lens of knowing that Whedon was a pretty awful person – but I hope we can all agree that even at his worst, Xander is a MUCH better human being than Whedon.

We’ll see how we go.

Interesting that Willow’s history with Xander is established well before she meets Buffy. Not surprising, since they’ve known each other since early childhood, but interesting. Buffy is the protagonist, but Xander/Willow’s relationship with each other takes precedence when it comes to introducing the gang’s dynamics.

And hey, it’s Eric Balfour as Jesse! Oh man, they really dropped the ball on this character, didn’t they. It’s the one aspect of this two-part premiere that really doesn’t work... but I’ll get to that in good time.

Principle Flutie! Something else I’d totally forgotten; I honestly thought this show started with Snyder.

Also, that initial on his desk plaque is B. Does that mean his name is actually Bob (which is what he tells Buffy to call him)? Not Robert? Weird.

Buffy and Xander’s meetcute involves him helping her pick up some of the spilled contents of her bag, and accidentally saying: “can I have you?” instead of “can I help you?” Oof. Yeah, that’s not an auspicious start.

Buffy meets Cordelia before she meets Willow, and Cordelia comes across as surprisingly nice when she shares her textbook with Buffy and invites her into Sunnydale's popular clique. Then of course, the second relatively big twist of the episode occurs: Cordelia reverts into absolute bitchiness when they come across Willow at the drinking fountain.

Willow scarpers and Buffy looks deeply uncomfortable. There’s a nice subtext across this episode that suggests Buffy was once just like Cordelia, only for her calling to make her more sympathetic to social “losers” like Xander and Willow.

Cordelia also describes the Bronze as being in “the bad part of town”. Huh? I’m going to chalk that one down to more Early Instalment Weirdness, since I don’t think it ever comes up again. (Later Sunnydale is described as a “one Starbucks town”, which is also funny since it’s later revealed to contain a zoo, a shopping mall, several lakes and parks, a military base, and a university).

Buffy enters the library for the first time, and the first thing she sees is a newspaper with an article titled “local boys still missing” outlined in red. The plurality of “boys” means that this isn’t referring to Darla’s kill, which probably only happened the night before anyway. Instead, it’s an indication that there are ongoing problems of a supernatural nature in Sunnydale.

And here’s Giles! The most interesting thing about this interaction is that Giles has clearly been waiting for Buffy. As in, he knows that the Slayer is scheduled to appear in Sunnydale, and that she’s going to be enrolled in its local high school. As Willow says later on, he’s also a newcomer, having only recently taken the position of school librarian.

The show never goes into any more detail than this, but I have so many questions. Clearly Buffy was under surveillance from the Watchers Council, who knew she was coming and made sure Giles had a cover story and a position to fill at Sunnydale High so that he could more easily sidle himself into her life, but a part of me wonders they pulled similar strings for Joyce to get her that job at the art gallery in order to bring Buffy to Sunnydale in the first place.

Evidence for this is that Giles already knows it’s a hotbed for supernatural activity in his discussions with her, though I suppose his dialogue suggests it’s more fate (or the Powers That Be?) rather than the Watchers Council that had a hand in Buffy’s arrival at the Hellmouth (“there’s a reason you’re here and a reason why it’s now”). Still, it’s an interesting theory to ponder, and I always felt it was a shame that the show never delved too deeply into Buffy’s life after she became a Slayer but before she moved to Sunnydale.

(Though I suppose that had to do with the spectre of the 1992 Buffy movie, who’s relationship with this show is a bit tenuous. But now I’m getting off-track).

Buffy flees from Giles and strikes up a conversation with Willow instead. Willow’s eagerness and earnestness is very cute, and though she probably has the most profound development of any other character on this show, I’ll always miss this early dorky version of her.

In describing the library, Buffy says it gives her “the wiggins”. HAH! Remember that word? Remember how it didn’t exist anywhere except this show? Remember how it was essentially Whedon’s attempt to make fetch happen? Aw, man. What a delightful throwback.

On hearing that a body has been found stuffed in a locker, Buffy naturally cannot help but investigate – though I suppose we can chalk it down just as much to her wanting confirmation on whether or not vampires are in town than to any personal sense of responsibility.

Our first glimpse of her super strength comes when she busts through the locked door into the changing room, and she gives a weary “oh great” on seeing the bitemarks in the victim’s neck.

But then of course, she follows this up by sharing her discovery with Giles, who is quick to point out that she’s doing something about it. I have a soft spot for heroes who simply cannot walk away from danger and/or a situation that needs their intervention, regardless of how loudly they grumble about it.

Turns out Xander has heard their entire conversation about vampires and Watchers and Slayers from behind the stacks... which is an elegant not-coincidence since it was established earlier in the episode (in his conversation with Willow) that he was going to the library for a trigonometry book.

Giles is still jabbering about how Sunnydale is a centre of mystical energy that attracts all kinds of supernatural beings, and Buffy’s skepticism naturally gives way to a panning shot of an underground cave where a formidable-looking vampire is intoning “the Sleeper will wake” over a pool of blood.

As villains go, the Master is obviously not particularly inspired, especially since he spends most of this season as a quintessential Orcus on His Throne, but it was also way too early in the game to have a complex or personal Big Bad. You can’t come out the gate with a Glory or an Angelus, and I think he serves his purpose just fine as a Nosferatu-esque spectre that a sixteen-year-old girl would understandably be intimidated by.

Ditto Luke as the show’s Starter Villain: a physical threat to Buffy without being all that interesting.

On Buffy’s way to the Bronze we get our first Angel sighting, and much like Joyce, his characterization is a bit off. He’s way too smarmy and negging, but also... kind of upbeat? It’s amusing to reflect that the writers room knew very little about him at this point, including the fact that he was a vampire (making his “I don’t bite” comment deeply ironic) so it’s lucky that they never filmed any of his scenes in daylight before the truth comes out six episodes later.

In any case, his role in this episode is to namedrop things like “the Mouth of Hell” and “the Harvest” (which Giles will start researching as soon as Buffy passes them on to him) and give Buffy the silver crucifix which... becomes important at some stage? I remember the claddagh ring in season three, but have no recollection of this necklace.

Also intriguing is this dialogue between them: Angel – “I’m a friend.” Buffy – “Maybe I don’t want a friend.” Angel – “I didn’t say I was yours.”

I mean, I know it’s just meaningless banter, but Buffy assumes the “friend” he’s talking about is Giles, who soon confirms that he’s never met him before. So was Angel actually referring to The Powers That Be? Whistler, maybe? Again, I know that this was just filler dialogue with no established context, but I’d be interested to see if it fits in with season two’s flashbacks where he’s introduced to Buffy from a distance.

There’s a very sweet interaction between Buffy and Willow at the Bronze, in which the former gives the latter some advice (“seize the day, because tomorrow you might be dead”) and assures her she’s coming back – despite Willow’s expectation that she won’t – when she spots Giles on an overhead balcony.

The staging of the scene between her and Giles is a bit sus – did he really have to stand behind her and lean over her like that? – but at his insistence she spots a vampire in the crowd, though not because of her preternatural senses, but because of his dated fashion sense. And uh-oh, he’s chatting up Willow, who is unfortunately taking Buffy’s “seize the day” advice.

A throwaway line from Cordelia down on the dance floor is telling: apparently her mother never gets out of bed. Our resident Alpha Bitch clearly doesn’t have a great home life.

Poor Jesse gets the brush-off from Cordelia and runs straight into Darla instead. The reveal is wonderfully corny, in which she swivels around in her hanging basket chair with a smile that wouldn’t melt butter.

We’re heading into the third act cliff-hanger now: Willow is being ushered through a graveyard by her vampiric date, Jesse is clearly also in danger, the Master has risen and sent out his minions to bring him fresh blood, and Xander’s skepticism over Buffy’s Slayer status quickly turns to concern when he learns that Willow is in trouble.

They all converge in a graveyard crypt, and – bless her – Buffy is bantering right off the bat. It’s actually a pretty good tactic, as the vampires are caught off-guard by her confidence. Though... shouldn’t Darla clock the fact that she’s a Slayer? We learn later that she’s familiar with the concept, though this is obviously another case of not having figured out the character’s background at this early stage.

A point in Xander’s favour: Buffy tells him to “go” and instead he enters the crypt to help Jesse and Willow. You have to admit, that’s classic Xander.

And we end with Xander/Willow/Jesse being threatened by more vampires outside, as Luke lowers himself onto Buffy after he’s thrown her into an open tomb. To be continued...

Miscellaneous Observations:

Do we ever get an explanation for the force field that’s keeping the Master trapped underground? It’s obviously magic, so who put it in place?

How did Angel know about the Harvest? Who sent him? I know the answers are still to come, but the question is deliberately left dangling in this episode.

Giles mentions incubus and succubus in his litany of monsters that are attracted to Sunnydale, but I think they’re the only two creatures that never actually appear in the show.

I love the little glimpses of non-main characters going about their business in Sunnydale, namely Aphrodesia and Aura gossiping about Buffy before the dead guy falls out of the latter’s locker. I wonder if those girls made it to Graduation Day...

Watching this episode, the most eye-opening character is Cordelia, who has quite the epic journey ahead of her. It’s almost funny to see her in a role that requires her to be little more than Buffy’s antagonist and foil – essentially what Buffy would have been without her calling. I’m taking a moment to think about where all these characters end up, and it’s pretty dizzying.

Giles gives the famous Slayer mantra: “Into every generation a Slayer is born: one girl in all the world, a Chosen One. She alone will wield the strength and skill to fight the vampires, demons, and forces of darkness; to stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their number. She is the Slayer.” This is repeated in the show’s very final episode, and not only forms the crux of Buffy’s entire identity crisis, but also serves as the inspiration for her solution to it. Damn, I love this show.

But who the heck is the guy who speaks these lines in the opening introduction?? It’s later taken over by Anthony Stewart Head, but in season one at least we get a completely unfamiliar narrator.

As excited as I am to embark on this rewatch, I know that after the third season the show loses its centre a bit as the main trio form relationships that are ostensibly more important than the one they have with each other. I love these early seasons because their friendship is clearly the focus of the show – the thing not only protecting them against the forces of evil, but getting them through the hell that is high school.

The show loses its lustre when it loses sight of their bond, but I have three whole seasons to enjoy before that happens. Let’s do this.

Best Line: Cordelia (after Buffy has accidentally slammed her against a wall, thinking she’s a vampire): “Excuse me, I have to call EVERYONE I have EVER met, RIGHT NOW.”

Best Scene: The climatic fight in the crypt, not for the fight itself, but for the shock on Xander and Willow’s faces as the world (and their lives) irrevocably change.

Best Subversion: Obviously when the vulnerable and demure little blonde in the Cold Open reveals herself to be the real danger in the room.

Death Toll: Darla's date in the cold open. Thomas, the vampire that Buffy dusts in the crypt. Also, the newspaper in the library mentioned "local boys still missing" but since we never see them on-screen, the toll stands at TWO.

Grand Total: One civilian, one villain.

[girl4music]

With all my Bangel VS Cangel talk recently it probably does come across like I hate Bangel. This isn’t true.

I don’t hate Bangel at all. I just don’t ship them as that all-encompassing true love/soulmates ship many do.

I wanted to root for them. I really did. But with pretty much everything with them or revolving around them - all that I could see was red flags everywhere. How can I put my support and faith into a dynamic like Buffy and Angel’s when they can’t even put their support and faith into each other most of the time?

That’s not a relationship. I don’t care what anyone says. And it’s not a Bangel VS Spuffy conflict either. I’m not saying what I do just because I ship Spuffy. It would be shallow and petty and pathetic if that was the only reason why I go so hard against Bangel. I’m not into that whole fandom stan/ship wars business.

I genuinely CANNOT see the appeal in Bangel at all.

I can see the appeal in Spuffy despite the mutual abuse. They have the same appeal for me so of course I can… but it’s not about them why I say what I do. And it’s not because I hate the individual characters in the ship either. I’ve actually come to like Angel a lot in his show. His development from who he was in ‘BtVS’ to ‘AtS’ is significant. He is so much more interesting. And I’ve always liked Buffy. I just find it difficult to focus on her character arc because of how painful it is.

Bangel is not a healthy relationship to me at all. A healthy relationship is one that makes both people in it better people for being together and because of the positive influence that they have on each other. I could barely stand either of them when they were together. They honestly both came across as awful people. You know what really threw the nail in the proverbial coffin for me though? The moment I gave up even trying to pretend that Bangel meant anything to me? The moment I knew their relationship was done for good?

‘I Will Remember You’

It’s funny. So many people regard that episode as Bangel’s episode. Their great tragic romance episode.

It’s certainly tragic alright. But it’s not romantic. It’s not something I watch and think “they’re so 😍”

I watch that and I think “what the bloody hell is the point of them in the first place?” It’s true - love makes you do insane things. But if one of those insane things is purposefully preventing any happiness for you and your love out of a scare that may not even come true…

It’s not their great tragic romance episode at all.

It’s their ‘Hell’s Bells’. And even that relationship still had all the potential to be salvaged despite how absolutely devastating that episode was for Anya. That episode still had somewhat romantic undertones. ‘I Will Remember You’ didn’t. Those “cute” moments between them meant nothing if neither of them could hold on to the memories of it.

What I can say that they did for each other was help each other to grow into stronger people than before.

But that’s not in a good way. That’s in a “well, that’s inevitable” way because pain does help us grow. But at the end of the day I don’t blame the couple or the characters. I just think Whedon loves destroying love because he understands this probably a bit too much.

He never wanted to make last and celebrate any of Buffy’s romantic/sexual relationships because he believed that growth from pain was just the stronger and more realistic story to tell. And he wasn’t wrong. It is. But thematic balance is important for a reason and I don’t think he quite knew how to keep that balance. Likely because he didn’t have that balance in himself.

Anyways, I just wanted to express this thoroughly once and for all. I’ll likely never mention it again in this depth - but to reiterate - I don’t hate Bangel but I am very much anti-Bangel because I genuinely don’t see the point in being pro for shipping them as a romantic/sexual relationship and I don’t see the appeal at all. Maybe someone could explain it to me.

@hysterical @sayyoume @oveliagirlhaditright

[raisedbythetv89]

Using a beloved anti-hero/fictional serial killer - Dexter to illustrate a point about buffy - STAY WITH ME lol HEAR ME OUT OK

Imagine if during Dexter we got a season where something happened to him where the guilt of killing somehow became enough to stop him needing to kill (he still had the impulse but could control it and not act in it) and he became tasked with being the protector and guardian of a 15 year old girl of a person he killed as penance. A way to right a wrong and work towards his redemption for all the innocent lives he took along the way for the sake of his survival and not getting caught. (Not penance for the actual evil ppl he killed just to clarify)

And INSTEAD when she’s 16 he starts to develop a romantic relationship with her, openly discussing that it’s wrong but not doing anything of substance to stop it from happening and their relationship eventually causes him to start killing again and he doesn’t do anything to stop the girl from believing it’s her fault. Eventually Dexter abandons her when he realizes she holds no true redemption for himself and maybe he is just causing her more harm than good but does continue to lead her on by making her believe if one day he does enough good they can finally be together - you know like this young girl is his reward for being a good enough boy.

This is the framework for Buffy and Angel’s relationship without the vampires and the 231 year age gap.

If you enjoy Bangel I will never judge or shame you for it we all get to like what we like freely because at the end of the day it’s fictional and liking things in fiction never hurt anyone.

BUT if you’re a bangel who likes to act morally superior and judge spuffy’s and cry “seeing red” every chance you get (which truly just like WHY we all will never forget, that moment was so traumatizing for everyone involved including the actors. Spuffys just look at everything AFTER that episode that was Spike’s fantastic redemption arc and Buffy’s forgiveness, as well as everything that came before (the context that spike and buffy had a very blurred boundaries, sexual and physical relationship without a safe word and with established treatment of each other that lied WELL outside the norms of healthy relationships with regular humans without superpowers and super strength) Rather than the traumatizing standalone attempted SA scene from buffy that was the ONLY ONE that was actually filmed in a graphic and horrifying way vs alllll the other ones that blow right past actual SA or severely violating memories/minds/bodily autonomy - angel, willow, faith, ethan, giles/the council and xander’s violations of buffy, spike, riley, anya, giles and tara to name just the examples I can think of off the top of my head - angel, willow, faith, giles and ethan all with souls when they did it! vs soulless spike.

Maybe reconsider not throwing stones from your glass house when my ship’s framework without the vampires is: two enemies who have killed a lot of the other’s side and who were tasked with killing each other but instead fall in love despite their best efforts not to (not without hurting each other in the process of course, it literally would not be ENEMIES to lovers if they didn’t do awful things to each other along the way we are fully aware of both spike and buffy’s problematic behaviors) but both being SIGNIFICANTLY better people for it by the end of both the tv show and the comics because they both take accountability, apologize and seek to right their wrongs when they do cause that harm to each other and treat each other as equals.

Basically bangels and spuffys will NEVER agree or see things eye to eye because of the vastly different nature of these two frameworks of relationship dynamics so stick to your respective sides of the fandoms and we can all just have a chill, fun, sexy, sad, peaceful time lol ok? OK thanks 💜

[tuiyla]

Hi! No pressure of course but is there any chance you could share some thoughts on 5.07 specifically? It’s considered a high point I think, and it’s obv a crucial one for Spike’s ch and his relationship with Buffy.

I'm determined not to let this one sit for months on end uwu

So, Fool For Love, great episode! Even just aesthetically it's very well put together and I really enjoyed how it rhymed with Angel 2.07. I feel like the watching order didn't matter though I did watch ATS and therefore Angel's POV first. It was about time we got some Spike flashbacks and I have to say they delivered. The Angel-related ones as well but the second Slayer subway sequence was just something else. Not that this was the first episode to do so but 5.07 really proved just how far BtVS has come and what they can do in just 45 minutes of television. Also, unrelated to other flashback thoughts but when they cut to 1998 with Spike and Dru I was trying to place it in my head and at first I was like "okay so like 20 years before Buffy." Lmaooo joke's on me for often forgetting how old BtVS is as a series. I feel at liberty to call it old as a fellow 1997 baby.

I thought the premise of getting Buffy and Spike to talk about Slayers and fighting and death was a little forced, Buffy getting injured all of a sudden and all. But it doesn't take away from how good what follows is and I'm glad the show returned to what was used to introduce Spike, the fact that his two Slayer kills are what really give him his reputation. And if anything, Fool For Love is just the hammering home of Spike's "violence and sex are the same" thesis. I know that's a theme throughout the show because duh, vampires and their metaphors and what with all the slaying, but Spike as a character really embodies it. And there are many interesting implications to consider about him willingly chasing Slayers, the people most likely to kill him. There's really a lot to say about his hedonsitic tendencies and this embodiement but I don't think I could add anything that people smarter than me haven't already offered all thoughts on haha.

I also appreciated that Spike was once again established as an unreliable narrator, one who boasts and and all but who has an emotional truth to speak of. His origin story of when he was still human checks out with everything he does as a vampire and I'm curious where the series will go with him. Because he is a soulless vampire and I'm sure there will be many an exploration of that and what it means for the concept of love, but at this point in the lore it's also been made pretty clear that one's human self influences their vampire one. And William was kind of... all about love? As a true romantic Victorian poet. And, particularly if we consider love(/sex) and violence the same, Spike's all about that too. So you know, I buy that he really does love Buffy. I think it started as lust and as obsession, but at this point in the story it is love. I was afraid the episode would end with Buffy pissing him off and several episodes would be about Spike acting all scorned and spiteful so the ending scene was a nice subversion. It made Spike's genuine affection all the more clear, because he is still a petty spiteful vampire who doesn't take rejection well but he also saw that Buffy was hurting and demonstrated that he has empathy. It's strange, sure, but I'm kinda digging the way the show is portraying it.

I wasn't sure how I'd feel about Spike and, inevitably, Spuffy, but now that I'm well into season 5 I have to say that I get it. And this is more in general rather than specific to the episode, but I think I get it. I proceeded with caution because fandom hype can be so misleading and I'm extra cautious of once bad boys for whom fandoms have soft spots. Very often I don't feel like the characters deserve it beyond being played by attractive white men. But from the start Marsters' performance as Spike has been unabashedly delightful and particularly from season 4 on it's been so easy to want to root for him. I won't yet say either way in terms of Spuffy because I don't yet know where I'll fall with them, but... I get it. Yeah, I can totally see why people would dig this. I have to say, some of Spike's pitiful attempts at just being in Buffy's presence rang all too true to me. Granted I'm not a soulless vampire, just a useless lesbian, but still.

What else to say specifically about the ep, hmm. Honestly not a lot, just that it was good. I know that might not sound like I'm appreciating the quality of eps like this appropriately but that's just because I'm speeding through episodes and processing everything at once. I do think Buffy s5 and Angel s2 are really really solid seasons of television with some truly exceptional episodes, 5.07 among them. The interplay of the flashbacks and Spuffy in the present and the line blurring and disappearing by the end are chef's kiss. I'll have to see Their Story unfold fully before passing verdict on the fight scene but yeah, it's great TV. And dare I say, Buffy was showing signs of being attracted to Spike herself just not realizing it yet. That's the vibe anyway, just like it took Spike a while to have that 'oh' moment. We've all been there.