#a jedi as an antagonist

[lovegrowsart]

i need people to recognise that while osha was/is emotionally repressed, that doesn't mean she's innately passive in her personality?? passivity is forced upon her by other characters (primarily sol and the jedi) but since she was a kid she expressed a desire for action and adventure - she was the one sneaking out of the fortress to the bunta tree, desiring her own life outside of the coven and her relationship with mae, drawn to the jedi and their lightsabers, and even when she leaves the jedi order, she doesn't exactly settle down somewhere quiet but goes to the other end of the galaxy and takes up a dangerous mechanic job that's only legal for droids to do while hopping from ship to ship and getting tattoos on drunk nights out with her crew? even in episode five with yord trying to haul her back to the ship, she doesn't exactly go completely willing (sol has to force push her into yord!) and is then the one that convinces yord to go back (💀), and she also immediately latches onto the idea of rejoining the jedi when she thinks sol is offering that at the beginning of episode four, and once she does know the truth, she instinctively force choked sol and bled his lightsaber (even anakin needed more convincing/encouragement to go dark side than she did)

mae comes across are more active/aggressive because she's more emotionally open/driven and has the truth that osha does not (that sol killed their mother) so is therefore incredibly motivated by that truth and desire for revenge/justice - but she's also the one that was comfortable and content with her life in the coven, that seemed to only need osha in her life, that didn't like osha sneaking out of the fortress, that seemed to flourish under the coven's teachings whereas osha chafed against it, doesn't actually seem to like conflict all that much considering how quickly she's willing to give herself up to the jedi once she knows osha is alive and then when she seems content for sol's punishment to be facing the high council/the republic, she seems surprised when she succeeds in killing indara and then doesn't kill the shopkeep alien even though that'd likely (and does) make things harder for her, offers torbin the option of going to the council or taking the poison, and doesn't even kill kelnecca or sol, and generally is clearly not all that committed to the dark side/sith stuff qimir's trying to teach her and spends episode five running from him/pleading for her life over trying to fight him (in comparison osha manages to (temporarily) defeat him by siccing giant bat moths on him)

they're both more complicated than they might appear on the surface!!

[allegoryofthebeast]

I am obsessed that Jedi: Survivor explores Cal more or less slipping into the dark side/dark behaviors and patterns and how leaning into emotion as a Jedi can make you significantly more powerful though also extremely reckless and aggressive - however a balance could perhaps be reached by Jedi with the patience and support to understand their darker emotions and how it could be beneficial or harmful given the situation. But they fr don’t. Every time something within that vein happens to Cal everyone is like damn… crazy. Anyway

[sainamoonshine]

So I watched Wakanda Forever and I have INSANE blorbo feelings for literally every single character in that movie

Like we started watching and as soon as Namor started explaining his backstory I was just like “oh shit I need to emotionally disconnect from this movie or this fucking guy will end up occupying my every waking thoughts for 2-3 business months and I got other shit to do”

Unfortunately,

[yukipri]

Thanks for explaining the entirety of the Galidraan incident/Jango's role in it. It's been ages since I've read that particular comic so I only had vague memories and ideas of how that incident went down. Hazy memories combined with the weird Jedi vs True Mandalorians takes I've seen in a lot of fics was making my head spin.

I'm glad it was helpful! I get that a lot of people create/consume fanworks without actually looking at the original media. Which, is ok! I'm not here to gatekeep anyone and how they choose to enjoy fandom and fictional entertainment.

But for me personally, the fun part of creating my own fanworks is personally watching/reading the original media, and then reflecting on it, reinterpreting it, altering, all with an understanding of the base materials that I'm working with. If I choose to discard part of it, I do it with full awareness and intent. Collecting the pieces of the puzzle and figuring out how I want to put them together is what's interesting to me!

That means that to the best of my ability, I will try to collect and actually go through the base media as much as I can before making a thing. I sometimes can't get through everything, because in a franchise as big as Star Wars there's always some obscure media I haven't or can't get my hands on, and my time and sanity is limited. But it's important to me that I make an effort.

With Galidraan specifically, Jango's a character I really care about and am fascinated by, and have spent a crapton of time analyzing, both his past and motivations. I also really like both the True Mandalorians and the Jedi! So it's frustrating when I see people pit these two groups together, when they are BOTH generally portrayed to be noble, with good intentions, and then there's Death Watch manipulating it all from the shadows. Combined with Death Watch's increasing role in new Star Wars media like the Mandalorian, being consumed by people new to the fandom....

and I'm just like please y'all. Give Evil credit where it's due instead of pitting the good guys against each other, yeah???

❀ ❀ Send YukiPri an Ask! ❀ ❀

[bereft-of-frogs]

underrated thing I love that I do not think about, use, or appreciate often enough: when a character is doing the objectively right thing, an objectively good thing....but so vindictively. like with just the bitchiest attitude. like they're for sure being kind and right but with the bitchiest, snarky attitude. I love that.

[kissingwookiees]

my headcanon for swtor from knights onward is actually that all my pcs are in fact still alive simultaneously and they all have a little bit of valkorion in their head (like a horcrux) and they all work with the alliance depending on their class actually

[rivercule]

Enemyship ended with Rian Johnson. Dave Filoni is my new worst enemy

[voidendron]

wip i guess?

"I dont think you understand the severity of what's going on here."

When the Cathar merely shrugged as he chewed on that stupid toothpick, Varrich had to resist the urge to reach out and smack it out of his mouth.

"I don't think you get that I know what I'm doin'. I was hired for a job, I'm doin' that job, yeah?"

For an underworld boss, this guy was so stupid Varrich wanted to pull out his hair just from talking to him.

"Sept. Darok gave us a task, you're making it difficult for the rest of us. Just--"

"Major." Master Vetiko's voice was gentle even as the end of her tail twitched with irritation with the situation. "You two at each others' throats is what's making this difficult, not Jen being a little lippy."

Varrich's lip twisted as his scowl deepened. Despite his helmet covering the upper half of his face, Vetiko still gave him a look - she could probably just sense his irritation without seeing the look in his eyes.

"Where's V'ehsz?" he asked, to change the subject. The Barsen'thor had snuck off in a Force shroud to disable the guns that were making getting anywhere close to the taxi pad nearly impossible. That left the rest of the team to take cover as they waited.

Vetiko hummed as she closed her eyes, then gestured toward the second nearest to their location. "First is down, he's currently at the second. I think we're good to start heading toward the third; he should have it disabled by the time we get there."

"Then let's hurry it up," he muttered as he readied his rifle; Vetiko tightened her grip on her lightsaber, while Jen hoisted up both of his somewhat-outdated-looking blasters.

He couldn't say he was pleased to be working with two Jedi and a smuggler while his usual team held back to aid the rest of the ranks in defending the landing position, but it is what is, he supposed. The colonel knew what he was doing, this plan had worked so far, they just had to get to the Jedi temple to drive the enemy forces out of it.

...He also couldn't say he was too pleased when Sept cast a look over his shoulder, a cheeky grin stretching his mouth. Why did he have to work with this guy...

[sunderwight]

SV Star Wars AU where Shen Yuan transmigrates into a proxy for Padme.

I know the Obikin vibes are really strong with Bingqiu, but hear me out:

Shen Qingqiu is the fourteen-year-old(?!?!) King Elect (?!?!?!) of Qing Jing, a planet from the Cang Qiong sector that has been facing issues with the Trade Federation and has petitioned the Jedi Order for help.

"Shen Qingqiu" is also a role played by several similar-looking fourteen-year-old boys, except where Padme and her handmaids were all from more or less the same background, most of the servants conscripted for the Shen Qingqiu role are downtrodden slaves basically cast as expendable bodyguards, whose main advantage in this deal is that after Shen Qingqiu finishes his term as King then they get to go free.

Meaning, Shen Yuan and Shen Jiu are both expendable body doubles for the "real" Shen Qingqiu (in this case, Qiu Jianluo going by his royal name, with the "qiu" being deliberate rather than accidental).

Additional fun possibility: Qiu Jianluo has actually been dead since the trouble with the Trade Federation first escalated, and Shen Yuan and Shen Jiu have basically been Weekend At Bernie's-ing him because there's no time to elect a new king and if the Trade Federation's blockade isn't broken, everyone's immediate prospects are extremely bleak (and the odds of the Shens being sent to some prison camp instead of granted their freedom is very high).

Another additional fun possibility: the Trade Federation didn't actually kill Qiu Jianluo, Shen Jiu did, so not only do they have to maintain the charade, they also have to look for opportunities to drop Qiu Jianluo's corpse down a reactor core or something and make it look like he's died during the conflict in order to prevent any investigations that will look into pesky things like "time of death" or "how many stab wounds there are".

In the midst of all this, of course, there is the main plot of PIDW/SW, wherein Shen Qingqiu was originally one of several antagonists to excessively bully and dismay Jedi prodigy and future Chosen One Luo Binghe, a poor slave boy living on an ice planet and trying to win enough money via dangerous pod races to buy medicine for his dying mother. Featuring also young Jedi knights Liu Qingge and Yue Qi (the latter of whom seems to have some history with Shen Jiu...?), admittedly kickass Sith apprentice Mobei Jun, a certain future Chancellor from the Huan Hua sector, and sentient Sith holocron Meng Mo. And Airplane, probably as an up-and-coming member of the Jedi AgriCorps who basically has Count Dooku's plot duties (turn traitor and get killed) but is somehow also thoroughly entangled with Mobei Jun.

[david-talks-sw]

Debunking more myths in the GFFA: the Jedi and the clones.

I wrote a post debunking the various myths about how "the Jedi condone slavery", a while ago. Something I had omitted (because it's such a big topic) was the following two statements that concern the clone troopers' relations with the Jedi:

"The clones were genetically bred to have accelerated growth, so they're technically child soldiers."

"The clones were slaves of the Jedi."

Both the above statements are inaccurate, let's explore why. 

"The clones were child soldiers"

Let's get the easy one out of the way first, because it's a logic that cuts both ways. If age is our only determination of the maturity of a Star Wars character, then Grogu is not a baby. He is aged 50, and is thus a middle-aged man.

Who cruelly eats the babies of a woman...

... and knowingly tortures animals for his own sadistic pleasure.

Of course, I'm kidding. Grogu's none of the above things.

The narrative frames him as a cute baby who does innocent baby stuff. Him eating the eggs is played off as comedic, as is him lifting with the frog. To this day, some fans still call him "Baby Yoda".

Conversely, despite the clones being 10/14-years-old, their actions, behaviors, way of thinking, sense of humor, morals etc, are all those of an adult.

Like, Ahsoka is technically older than Rex in this scene.

The scene doesn't portray them as peers, though. This isn't written as "a teen and a tween talking". No, Rex looks, acts and behaves like a grown-up and is thus framed as such by the narrative.

You can make the argument "they're child soldiers", but (unless you're doing so in bad faith) you'd also have to argue that "Grogu's an adult".

"The clones were the Jedi's slaves"

Nope. For all intents and purposes, they're in the same boat as the Jedi, who George Lucas stated multiple times had been drafted to fight in the war.

Again: both the Jedi (monk/diplomats untrained for fighting on a battlefield) and clones (literally bred en masse only to fight) are being forced to fight by Palpatine and the Senate.

Though, on paper, the clones were commissioned by Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas, it was actually done by the Sith (who either manipulated or assassinated Sifo-Dyas then stole his identity, depending on the continuity you choose to adhere to). The rest of the Jedi had no idea these clones were being created.

So while the clones are slaves... they're not owned by the Jedi.

They're the army of the Republic, they belong to the Senate. This isn't exactly a scoop, they refer to the clones as something to purchase...

... and manufacture.

As far as the Senate’s concerned, clones are property, like droids. 

Like there's a whole subplot in The Bad Batch about this very point: after the war, the clones are decommissioned and left out to dry because they literally have no rights, they served their purpose.

The only trooper to ever canonically blame the Jedi for the clones' enslavement is Slick, who the narrative frames as having been bribed and manipulated by Asajj Ventress into betraying his comrades.

Also, the only canonical Jedi shown to ever be mean, dismissive or mistreating the clones in any way, is Pong Krell.

And it's eventually revealed he’s in fact a full-on traitor, hence why the story frames him as an antagonistic dick from the moment he's introduced. He doesn’t represent the Jedi in any way.

We know this because the other Jedi we’ve been shown are always prioritizing their clones’ lives over theirs, if given the chance.

Finally, if we wanna get even more specific... as Commander-in-Chief of the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR), the clones belong to Palpatine. 

Palpatine who is a Sith Lord. 

Palpatine who arranged for the creation of the clones and had them all injected with a chip that would activate upon hearing a code-word...

... and forced them to murder their Jedi without hesitation or remorse.

When you bear all that  ⬆️  in mind and when you read this quote by George Lucas...

"The Jedi won't lead droids. Their whole basis is connecting with the life force. They'd just say, 'That's not the way we operate. We don't function with non-life-forms.” So if there is to be a Republic army, it would have to be an army of humans."    - The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 2020  

... narratively-speaking, everything falls into place.

Sidious knows that:

If he orchestrates a war designed to thin the Jedi's numbers, corrupt their values and plunge the galaxy into chaos...

If he wants to draft the Jedi - peace-keeping diplomats who’d never willingly join the fray - to fight in his war...

... then the only way they won't resist the draft and abstain from fighting is if they think joining the conflict will save lives.

So he creates a set of cruel, sadistic villains for them to face, opponents who will target innocent civilians at every turn...

... and instead of lifeless droids, he prepares for the Jedi an army of men... living, mortal people who, despite being well-trained, will be completely out of their league when facing the likes of Dooku...

... Ventress...

... Grievous...

... Savage Opress...

... or the defoliator, a tank that annihilates organic matter.

Thus, in order to save as many clone and civilian lives, the Jedi join the fray despite knowing that doing so will corrupt their values. 

And as the war rages on, a bond of respect is formed between the two groups.

Clearly, the Jedi don't like the fact that the Republic is using the clones to fight a war, but for that matter, they don't like being in a war, in fact they advocated against it.

However, it's happening regardless of their issues with the idea or personal philosophies. Said The Clone Wars writer Henry Gilroy:

"I’d rather not get into the Jedi’s philosophical issues about an army of living beings created to fight, but the Jedi are in a tough spot themselves, being peacekeepers turned warriors trying to save the Republic."

And bear in mind, the Jedi are basically space psychics, the clones are living beings that they can individually feel in the Force... 

... so the Jedi feel every death but need to move on, regardless, only being able to mourn the troopers at the end of every battle.

We see this in the Legends continuity too, by the way.

(that is, when the writers actually try to engage with the narrative)

Also, if you ask the clones, they’re grateful the Jedi have their backs.

When Depa Billaba voices her concerns about how the war is impacting the Jedi's principles, troopers Grey and Styles are quick to make it clear how grateful they all are for the Jedi's involvement:

So the clones aren't the Jedi's slaves. If anything, they're both slaves of the Republic (considering how low the Jedi's status actually is in the hierarchy).

Only I'd argue the clones have it much, much worse. 

The Senate sees the Jedi as "ugh, the holier-than-thou space-monk lapdogs who work for us"... but a Jedi has the option to give up that responsibility. They can leave the Order, no fuss or stigma. 

A clone trooper cannot leave the GAR! If they do, they’re marked for treason and execution. Again, they’re not perceived as “people”.

And it doesn’t help that the Kaminoans, the clones’ very creators, see the troopers as products/units/merchandise. A notion that the Jedi are quick to correct whenever they get the chance.

How The Clone Wars writers describe the clones' relationship with the Jedi.

George Lucas hasn’t spoken much about this subject aside from the quote from further up. But to be fair... the Prequels aren’t about the clones’ dynamic with the Jedi, so it makes sense that he wouldn’t talk on that subject so much.

He did mention that part of The Clone Wars’ perks is that he could:

“Do stories about some of the individual clones and get to know them.”

But that’s as far as it gets. 

So for this part, I'm just gonna let Dave Filoni, showrunner of The Clone Wars and the upcoming series Ahsoka, and TCW writer Henry Gilroy - both of whom worked closely with Lucas - take the wheel. They make themselves pretty clear on how the clone/Jedi dynamic is meant to be viewed. 

Here’s Henry Gilroy:

"In my mind, the Jedi see the clones as individuals, living beings that have the same right to life as any other being, but understand that they have a job to do."

"The clones see the Jedi as their commanding officers on one hand, but also, at least subconsciously, they look to them for clues to social/moral behavior."    

"Some clones may find themselves getting philosophical leadership from the Jedi that helps them answer some of the deeper questions of life."    

"We thought this was a great opportunity to show how the Jedi interact with clones. Specifically, Yoda in a teaching role of the clones, who were socially new, who kind of grew up— who were created to fight, and he really broadened their horizons and helped them realize there was a great big universe out there that was bigger than just fighting and killing."    

And here’s Dave Filoni’s comments:

"I truly believe that the Jedi try to humanize their clones and make them more individual, as Henry says."    

"I think we saw that in Revenge of the Sith, when the Clones were colorful and named under the Jedi Generals, and then in the final shots of the film with Palpatine and Vader near the new Death Star, the ships are grey, the color and life is sucked out. The Stormtroopers are only numbers and identified by black and white armor or uniforms in A New Hope." 

"The soldiers have become disposable to the Emperor."    

"That is something the Jedi would never do."    

"Yoda teaching the clones much like he taught Luke. ‘Cause that was kind of natural for [the Jedi], a natural instinct to take to these clones like they’re students."    

None of the above quotes from two different writers of The Clone Wars, who had many interactions with George Lucas, frame the Jedi and the clones’ relationship in a negative way. 

How much more proof do we need that "the clones were slaves of the Jedi” isn’t the intended narrative?

My point being that while the clones' ordeal is indeed horrible, the Jedi have nothing to do with it. The narrative of The Clone Wars always frames it as the fault of the Sith, the Senate and the Kaminoans.

If you go by the intended narrative, the Jedi were the clones' teachers and brothers-in-arms. The clones and the Jedi were not just comrades.

They were friends.

[fangeek-girl]

I will defend Reva until I die. She was such a brilliant antagonist to bring to the Kenobi series.

The Inquisitors have always been known as Force-sensitive beings turned to the dark side. Some of them have been hinted as Jedi before they turned. But to have a youngling who survived Order 66 become an Inquisitor for the sole reason to take revenge on Vader? It’s so much more personal. She deserves a whole series about how she got there.

I’ve seen a lot of people laugh at her for daring to fight Vader, and it baffles me how the parallel from the flashback scene in that very episode went right over their heads. She fights because she’s angry. Because she cannot see past her pain. She wants revenge. That’s exactly who Anakin was back then. That’s who he was when he first fought Dooku and lost an arm.

Reva is a shadow of Anakin’s past following him around. That’s why he took the time to fight her properly. He could’ve discarded her, but he needed to teach her a lesson. And he needed to cut that link to his past.

There are so many parallels, but she got discarded by the fandom because she’s a powerful Black woman who took too much place in a show the fanboys wanted to be only about Kenobi and Vader. And it pisses me off to no end because Moses Ingram did an incredible job and Reva is one of my favourite antagonists in this entire universe.

[shootingstarpilot]

Do you have any advice for writing Mace Windu?

Hello friend! I've been sitting on this for a while, because everyone's got their own interpretations, but mine is based on an idea I was struggling to put words to.

(Caveat that I have not read Legends material, that people can write what they like, etc. etc.)

The way I see it, Lucas specializes in writing stories in terms of themes and archetypes. This is why certain dialogue choices or the development of certain relationships can be... clunky, let's go with that. Characters (Obi-Wan and Anakin fall into their own category, sure) are written primarily as archetypes. You have Yoda as the wise old sage, Sidious as the ultimate evil-

And Mace Windu as the ultimate good.

We see this in the Chancellor's office, right? During the final showdown. This is the moment where Anakin makes his choice- stay in the Light or Fall- and the characters visually representing that choice are Palpatine and Mace. He's the Master of the Order. He's raised a Padawan who sits on the Council with him. He's an incredibly skilled swordsman- hell, his fighting style of choice (Vaapad) epitomizes how clearly he's mastered the art of internal balance!

All of that to say- his whole character is built around the idea that he is the Good Guy. That would be the one piece of writing advice I would give. If you're wondering how to write him, start with that idea- that he is written to represent the absolute opposite of Sidious. He's the ultimate good. He is the illuminating Light to Sidious' corrupting Dark. This is why antagonistic portrayals of him never ring true to me- they're coming from a foundational understanding that I simply do not subscribe to. It reeks of a fundamental misunderstanding of his character and of the whole saga's themes.

(And also racism. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the racism that too often plays a significant role.)

All of that being said, what might it look like to write from the foundation of Mace being the representation of ultimate good? The good thing about characters being written as archetypes is that it gives us fans a significant amount of freedom in determining what those characters look like when they're written as characters. Different people will have different takes, but for me:

Well, first off- he's the epitome of a Jedi. So all of what that entails- he is fundamentally kind, fundamentally compassionate, and fundamentally in control of himself.

He's funny. I think he has a very dry sense of humor, and that he finds joy in the smallest things.

He loves so much. He loves his Padawan, he loves his friends, he loves his family, he loves the Republic- he loves the galaxy enough to go to war for it, and he loves the men who'll kill his people.

There will never be a situation where he has the capacity to help and chooses not to.

And last but not least, I choose to believe that this man can bake pastries with the best of them. In my heart of hearts, he's a stress baker, and he mends his socks with purple thread.

Hope this helps!

[jackdaw-kraai]

I think there’s something rather strange going on with all the folks who insist that the Jedi Order in the PT was right and didn’t forbid love and Anakin should just have followed their teachings when the whole point of the prequels is that they are prequels. They come before the OT, and the OT proves the Jedi wrong. They literally do not make sense if they don’t do that.

Luke, in the original trilogy, gains his ultimate triumph, his ultimate victory, because he loved in defiance of the teachings of the old Order. He quite literally had the ghosts of the past telling him, explicitly and without ambiguity, that he has to put his love for his father aside and kill him, as is the duty of a Jedi. Luke has the weight of millennia of teachings weighing down on his shoulders, telling him they knew and know better than a young, inexperienced man barely out of his teenager years. That he should follow their teachings or be destroyed. That is an immense weight to carry, and many people would and explicitly have given in to it in-universe. What are your feelings and ideals in the face of such immense legacy, after all?

But Luke doesn’t give in.

He doesn’t bend.

He says “I may be young, and I may be new, but I believe to my heart and soul that love matters more than this legacy. Matters more than your teachings.” And he says this to the ghosts of his mentors. That is such a powerful moment and one I can’t believe George Lucas didn’t create deliberately for even a second. This young man, being told he has to kill or die trying for a system that is dead or dying itself, that couldn’t survive itself, and refusing to do so. He is the living refusing to continue the violence of a dead generation. He is the young man refusing the draft into a war the old generation started, saying “peace and love matters more than you being right.” He is the embodiment of breaking the cycle.

And the movies vindicate him.

The main villain vindicates him with his last dying breath.

Darth Vader, dying, says “You were right.” and admits he and his were wrong. The main antagonist, Luke’s nemesis, in the face of his son’s immense, defiant love, gives way and does the impossible: he comes back to the light and dies a Jedi. The very thing the old Order says was impossible.

They were wrong. They have to be. The narrative demands it, the movies don’t make sense without it.

The solution was never to continue the cycle of the old Order, or Luke would have failed there, would have failed when he said “I am a Jedi, like my father before me.” And claimed that defiant, deviant, condemned definition of being a Jedi over the one presented to him by the Grandmaster of the old Order. If the old Order was right, Luke would have to be wrong. Be wrong about love, be wrong about laying down the sword, be wrong about refusing to fight. He would have to be wrong.

But the old Order is dead, explicitly killed by a monster, in some part, of their own making. It’s members only existing as bones in the ground or ghosts speaking from beyond the grave. They did not deserve it, it should not have been inflicted on them, but the narrative is clear on this: “The old way is dead, and was dying for a long time before that. Long live the new.”

Luke is that new. Luke is the breaking of the cycle, the reforging of swords into ploughs, the extended hand. Luke says “I don’t care how much I was hurt, I refuse to hurt you back, and you don’t need to hurt me either.”

“We can end this together and choose love instead.”

And Darth Vader, killer of the Jedi, End of the Order, lays down his arms as well, and reaches back as Anakin, saying “You were right.”

It wasn’t Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace, Qui-Gon, or even Ahsoka who achieved the ultimate victory in the end, following the tenants of the old Order. It was Luke. Young, inexperienced Luke, who saw that the age of legacy handed to him was only history, that the sword handed to him as his life was only a tool, and that the decrees of the dead were only advice. And he took it all, said “thank you for your experience, but I’ve got it from here,” and laid it all down to instead extend an open hand towards his enemy.

And his victory, his ultimate triumph, his vindication, was that he was proven right when his enemy reached back and became just another person. Just another person, just like him.

The Jedi did not deserve what happened to them, and they did not deserve to die. But the story is clear on this: the Jedi of old were wrong, and the Jedi of new, the Last Jedi, was right. No sword or death will ever end the rule of the sword or end the bloodshed. But love?

Love can ignite the stars.

[intermundia]

grrahhhh attachment doesn't mean what disney star wars says it means and at this point i feel like i'm going fully insane about it. you can make the jedi the narrative antagonists for your edgy dark-side acolyte story without mischaracterizing the entire order and their philosophy. it's possible for the jedi to be the narrative antagonists and not be villainous or cruel or stupidly wrong and inhumanly demanding about how emotions work. the jedi can just be working at cross purposes to the hero while still advocating a normal amount of mindfulness and compassionate love. i'm losing my mind. can the producers and writers like. talk to a buddhist maybe even once before getting the privilege to write the jedi order. please. god.

[mylastmoleculeofserotonin]

Can we take a moment to appreciate how well written and complex of a character Mae is? For the first 4 episodes, she just seems like a regular Sith/Dark Sider who hates the Jedi and wants to kill them, with hints that the Jedi may have wronged her in the past. However, in episodes 5 and 7, it becomes clear that her loyalty and motivations revolve around her family. When she thought her entire family had died, she set off to avenge their deaths, but when she saw that Osha was alive, she immediately abandoned that quest and betrays her master to try to reunite with her sister who she tried to shoot her on sight. But then, she gets trapped in the forest with Qimir and all she wants is to escape with Osha. However, when she realizes that the Jedi have outright lied to Osha about their family's death, she swaps places with her in an extremely desperate and risky attempt to get Qimir to un-brainwash her and tell her the truth so they have a chance at reconcilliation. Then, when they meet back on Brendok, Mae tries to tell Osha what happened, but when she sees that Osha is still brainwashed, she sets an elaborate trap to get Sol to confess to his crimes so that Osha will finally believe her. And when she does, she snaps and kills Sol and Mae is right by her side to help her accept what happens and to comfort her when she feels guilty about killing Sol. Then, when they realize that they can't escape together, Mae sacrifices her memories of everything, including her sister, the person who she loves the most and around whom her life revolves, in order to spare her from the Jedi. And if that isn't amazingly deep and complex characterization for a secondary antagonist, let alone a Star Wars character, I don't know what is.

[crowhoonter]

KotOR's Sith vs SWtOR's Empire

It's rather interesting to look at the "True Sith" as described by Kreia in KotOR 2 vs the Sith Empire we got in SWtOR. Back in KotOR, the True Sith were implied to be something near cosmic horror. Beings that had been changed by the Dark Side beyond any convention of human understanding, things that could no longer be reasoned or compromised with in any fashion, and would very possibly pose a threat to all life when they returned. Granted, what we know of them from KotOR is part conjecture and most of it comes from Kreia, who is an untrustworthy source at the best of times.

Then SWtOR roles around with the Sith Empire and they are... very much not that. They are a functioning, if dystopian, society with actual values and culture. They have wants and desires, goals outside just blind slaughter and killing. Y'know, like real people. Granted, I suppose the threat to all life did carry over with Vitiate and his whole deal, but he hardly is representative of everyone in the Empire. He is just a freak like that.

This drastic change in portrayal does make sense when you look at the writing teams goals with the faction. Obsidian and Chris Avellone in particular wanted to make a major big bad for what they thought would be the upcoming KotOR 3 (may it rest in peace), and wanted that threat to be something different than the typical Star Wars fanfare. As we know however, KotOR 3 never got made and instead became SWtOR, and Bioware wanted to make it palatable to more general audiences so they copy-pasted the Galactic Empire over into the past with some minor changes.

Of course, in doing this, they could no longer follow with the original idea of the True Sith. Making an entire society innately evil and desiring to wipe out all life has some... icky implications. So instead we got the Sith Empire, a still terrible and evil state, but one that is an actual society. The True Sith of KotOR were just made into one man, Vitiate, and everyone else in the empire is a mostly normal person, or as close as they can be to being normal.

While I would have loved to see the original vision of the True Sith, I can't help but believe the Sith Empire is the better than what we would've gotten. Vitiate, being honest, sucks as an antagonist. He's boring, uninspired, and lacks the charisma that made Palpatine fun. He got a bit better in Knights of the Fallen Empire, but still was overall underwhelming. I can't imagine something where legions of people like him are the main antagonist. The conflict would probably be reminiscent of the Fate of the Jedi books once Abeloth got introduced. Boring, impersonal, and just tedious to get through.

Granted, a villain like that can be done well, as exemplified by KotOR 2's own Darth Nihilus. He works because he is completely void. Nihilus' discerning feature is his lack of personality, being subsumed into his own hunger. Power has destroyed and reduced him, but even in such a state, you can make out the faint outline of the man he once was. His last shred of humanity showing through when he spared Visas Marr. A twisted sense of compassion, but compassion nonetheless. He is tragic, but still thoroughly inhuman and evil. The problem would arise in trying to make legions of characters like this. It would wear thin fast.

Side tangent aside, I really love the Sith Empire we got. It is, as of now, maybe the most complex view we have gotten of the Sith outside of books. They are still thoroughly evil, but it gives some insight into what made them into that. Whether it be trauma, ambition, grief, or even a sense of duty, the Sith have actual motivations besides kill and rule. It demonstrates that at their core, they are still people, not just evil caricatures.

This got longer than I expected, sorry about that. Just have a lot of thoughts about these fellas.