#Wot book Spoilers

[jaqobis]

oh buddy.

i’m starting to feel like one of the maidens every time we spot rand in a pov like….small child are you eating. did you drink your water. stop doomscrolling the prophecies of the dragon and go to sleep!!!

[moghedien]

One thing I hope that the show does get into if we get the Moghedien Salidar Experience is Nynaeve and her relationship with the a’dam, because I do find it fascinating

Because she gets so in her feelings about using it, because she does view it as something 100% evil and wrong and yet she is still using it. And she’s not only using it, she’s not letting anyone else use it. She’s sleeping with the bracelet on almost every night (which even sul’dams don’t do). She’s making herself use it almost all of the time and she absolutely hates it but she won’t stop.

And partially it’s because she thinks it’s evil that she won’t stop. Because someone needs to keep an eye on Moghedien and it’s either her or Elayne. Nynaeve refusing to let Elayne wear it most of the time is because she doesn’t want Elayne to have to use this evil object to connect herself to an evil person. Nynaeve loathes it but will take on all of the evil so that others don’t have to.

But it’s also can’t be denied that a part of it is because of she’s wearing it, she can bypass her block by channeling through Moghedien. Something she definitely thinks is evil, but it’s also safer than going around unable to channel. It’s giving her access to something she craves and can’t get in her own, and she literally has to be connected to an evil person with an evil item to do so.

She sleeps with this thing on. She’s making excuses to keep using it and wearing it, and even admits that they should have turned Moghedien in right away but she couldn’t pass up the opportunity to keep her as a prisoner in magical bondage indefinitely to try to extract information and use her. She hates this thing and doesn’t want to use it, but also she definitely does want to use it and will logic herself into making it make sense for her to use it.

Her emotions around it are just so interesting and complicated and I hope we get to see this in the show.

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

rand waking aviendha up and being so earnest like 'i'm sorry i didn't understand what you meant about swords and aiel and rhuidean earlier but i get it now!' meanwhile aviendha is having multiple different crises at once because she just watched hundreds of versions of herself fucking him.

[ambi-is-sleepy]

SPOILERS but... This came to me in a dream.

[kevin-sedai]

I really like how Josha is playing Rand in such a way that you can see he yearns to live the kind of life he always imagined but that he's starting to kind of accept that his life is going to be a lonely one. That conversation he had with Lan in the beginning, where he said there are so many things he can't be and that he wishes he can find something was really good for that set up, but then the experience in Rhuidean makes him lean into that acceptance of a lonely life. Idk, I just love how Rand is being portrayed this season and how they're setting his story up.

Most heartbreaking Rand line that I thought of below the cut (book spoilers)

"She wants me to be part of the Final battle. You want me to live. For that, you have my thanks. Dream on my behalf, Nynaeve. Dream for things I no longer can."

[butterflydm]

WoT 3x04 Deep Dive (book spoilers addition)

We made it! We achieved Rhuidean. This show keeps taking things that I feel have to be unfilmable and doing the impossible with them. Spoilers through 3x04 of the show and A Memory of Light for the books.

This is actually relatively short, because I was able to cover most thoughts in the show spoilers only post!

The idea that the best "weapon" is one that is not solely a weapon but can be used for other things was also a big focus of Perrin's storyline in the books (...even though axes can absolutely be used as tools, so I think the show did a good move by attaching the idea of 'axe as weapon' to his violence via killing Laila instead of making it just an inherent property of axes), but we also see it echoed in Rand & Mat, and in the Aiel as a whole. A sword is only ever a sword, but a bow or a spear can put food on the table. Perrin used an axe for violence, but he's used a hammer for creation.

So. Rand touching his ear in this talk with Lan.

The reason that I mention this is because Josha has read the books and knows them well so... check out his hands after he says, "There are so many things I can't be" in this opening conversation with Lan. In the books, Rand thumbing his ear is a tell that "Lews Therin" is also present in that moment. In the books, it was usually used when "Lews Therin" was finding a woman attractive but Rand didn't want to attach that feeling to himself, but the show might use it more generally. It might be that Rand has done this before on the show, but this is the first time it's really stood out to me. Is Rand attaching his nostalgia for home to LTT so that he doesn't have to feel it himself?

They are definitely making Rand a lot more open to the Aiel in the show, which fits with how he is trying less to be "hard" than he was at this point in the books. That Rand believed that he needed to use the Aiel as a tool and tried to keep his emotional distance because of it. This Rand does still see the Aiel as a potential tool, but he also sees the potential of a connection there too.

In the books, the romantic relationship between Rand and Aviendha was treated (at first) as a "binding cord" between Rand and the Aiel (by the Wise Ones, for sure) and that kind of dropped away as the books went on and we spent so long with Rand and Aviendha separated, and it ended up being Aviendha's first-sister relationship with Elayne that became more of a binding cord. I wonder if the show is going to keep that connection between Rand and Aviendha more present in the show. Much like we see Rand and Moiraine share a moment after they've both been through a trial of Rhuidean, Rand and Aviendha shared a moment as well, and the show may build on that (hopefully! It looks like they're sitting near each other in one of the shots in the promo for 3x05).

Something I noticed in the books, and something that I wonder if the show will follow, is that we never meet any clan chiefs or Wise Ones who are Darkfriends (please correct me if I'm wrong). Given that the columns seem to be almost alive, in how they are described, and how clearly the moments that it shows people must have been plucked out by a purpose, I wonder if the columns also weed out Darkfriends. They were created by Aes Sedai in the books, and by one specific Aes Sedai (Latra) in the show. We meet selfish or short-sighted or even cruel Wise Ones and clan chiefs, but I don't think any of them are ever shown to be Darkfriends.

One thing that is likely certain is that no one is allowed to be a clan chief if they don't have Aiel blood (and it probably has to be the father's blood, due to how the columns appear to work). Wise Ones... might be more flexible. Difficult to say. I imagine that adopting from outside the Aiel is pretty uncommon -- I suspect that Melindhra and Tigraine will be shown to be exceptions rather than a general rule -- so it likely doesn't come up much.

They don't mention here that gai'shain only serve for a year and a day, but I am currently assuming that it's still true because... I mean, you'd end up with a pretty large portion of your people who are gai'shain.

Lan's Aiel nickname honestly makes so much more sense to me in the context of Melindhra being a Malkieri child adopted by a Wise Ones and them having more awareness of Lan and what happened to Malkier. In the books, we never really get a reason why they admire him so much.

The Rand & Aviendha scenes were such a delight in this episode! Hopefully we'll get more of them interacting in 3x05, though I'm hoping that it's the Randgwene break-up episode, so we might not have time for much Avirand, because all sorts of other plotlines will be going on with the Two Rivers and with Tanchico (and I think I saw a hint of the White Tower in the trailer too, so four different main plotlines and locations).

If Rand & Egwene do break up in 3x05, then we might get another good moment like this one between Rand & Aviendha in 3x06, since I'm kinda expecting us to get the attack on Cold Rocks Hold in that episode ("the shadow in the night" sounds like a good name for that event) and Aviendha & Rand do get a moment there in the books. I think the show would keep it around the same level as they got in this episode, since the Randgwene breakup (fingers crossed) would still be pretty fresh, but the way this episode separated Rand & Egwene made me feel hopeful for a sooner rather than later break up (well, it's still kinda later, since we're already in the second half of the season, but you know what I mean).

The show leaning hard on Rand & Aviendha both having a duty to the Aiel people. And as we saw with Rand & Moiraine, going to Rhuidean can help bridge gaps, which we already saw a hint of in the final Rand & Aviendha scene.

And the cords of duty are something that Rand, Aviendha, and Elayne can all share -- we had that scene with Elayne and Rand in 3x01, and Elayne also told Aviendha that she did believe that Rand would accept his duty to her people, and she encouraged Rand along that path as well. So, if we get s4, it really does feel like we could see Avirandlayne coming together naturally as Elayne helps Rand adjust to wetlander political rule, as Aviendha continues to help with Aiel cultural knowledge.

I mentioned a caveat to the whole "the Taardad seem the most invested in the Car'a'carn in the show" thing in my other post and it's about the Maidens, of course. The Maidens, as a society, also have a huge reason to be extremely invested in having the Car'a'carn be found. In having a son of a Maiden finally return to them. I do hope that they'll go into that in either 3x05 or 3x06 (I will cry if we get the Maidens telling Rand that they want to carry his honor).

I wonder if we're going to have a lot fewer Wise Ones than we had in the books (where the Shaido alone had something like two hundred who could channel?). I think I read that the number of Aiel clans is eight now (which matches how many Aes Sedai it takes to shield & gentle even the strongest male channeler)? So that's only eight men at a time who have gone through the columns. They may have also cut down on the number of Wise Ones per clan so that the numbers aren't quite so disproportionate to each other. That's a lot fewer people to carry the legacy of the Aiel's past than we have in the books. And it'll be a much stronger break when Rand reveals that past to everyone.

Do we know if Aram is in the next episode? I am really wondering when we're going to get our present-day follow-up to Lewin breaking the Way of the Leaf -- will it be in the next episode, during Perrin's 'daring rescue' (as said in the summary for 3x05) or will it be in 3x07 (Goldeneyes, where we are getting the Battle of the Two Rivers)?

Because we have some kidnapped girls (Mat's sisters) and we have Perrin, who wants to save them without hurting anyone. For Lewin, it wasn't possible to save them without death. There is no salvation without destruction. How will it go for Perrin? Will there be a cost?

And Ila, who is Aram's grandmother... how closely will her reaction to Aram be to the way that Adan and Lewin's mother react to him here?

How much is the show going to break our hearts over Aram?

I do think introducing more genetic diversity to the Aiel that we see really helps combat the weird "generational servant" vibe that Jordan brought to the da'shain Aiel in the books (which... was it intentional? Jordan never really does enough with it for me to be certain). In the show, it's not that redheads specifically were all servants, it's that of the dedicated Aiel who left at Latra's request, at least one of the main bloodlines that survived to make it to the Waste were redheads, because they went though a couple of harsh population bottlenecks to get there.

The show making it so that the male Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends dressed primarily in black just feels so !!! when it comes to Rand designing the Asha'man uniform later on. Whether he realizes it or not, he's dressing them like Aes Sedai. (I can't remember if this is also a book thing or not)

Aaah, this long moment when Aviendha stares into Rand's eyes before she looks away and gets up to leave. The tension between them. It's so perfect.

That's really all I have for additional book spoiler thoughts. Most of it I could cover without needing them.

[ofthebrownajah]

Curious what Rand's mindset will be post Rhuidean. (and this is more me speculating his arc overall) but how the show is gonna communicate how Rand presents himself in public is a stark contrast from how he actually feels internally. That his public persona is very much a mask, etc.

[markantonys]

did you watch the Elaida BTS video? love Shoreh but also OBSESSED with Luke's gay little wave and "hello." Gawyn can be a little fruity, as a treat

yes i saw it!! it was such a great video! very cool to get an in-depth behind-the-scenes look at her costumes and preparation etc, and i love how excited she is about being on the show. when she looked at the camera and was like "YOU made this happen"

and luke!! loved his lil wave <3 gawyn can be a little fruity as a treat!! a philosophy luke must share as well, we all saw his acting choices with making gawyn sprawl on that chair.

i keep seeing SO many readers being like "perfect gawyn casting, i wanted to punch him immediately, they really nailed how he's instantly unlikeable" what do you meannnnnnn, first of all, luke!gawyn gives off green flag energy for the most part (he has, like, ONE moment of saying something mildly rude to mat i think, but otherwise is clearly the silly himbo brother who elayne gets along great with while *galad* is the one who's instantly unlikeable), second of all, gawyn is not and was never meant to be instantly unlikeable in either books or show, you guys are just so insane with your overblown irrational hatred of him that he could've had the most likeable show intro in the world and you still would've gone "ugh FUCK this guy, they're making him so hateable" the second he showed up! justice for my boy!!!! and they're like "they made him such an asshole straight off that it's gonna be a hard sell to get viewers to want him and egwene together" bruh this is a YOU problem, 99% of show-onlys probably have 0 strong opinion towards gawyn yet because he's barely had any screentime. maybe they might currently have an instinct of mild dislike towards Elayne's Brothers as a unit purely because they're currently lumping gawyn in with galad (even then, mat's annoyance with the brothers was largely played for comedy rather than inviting the audience to truly seriously dislike them), but i'm sure they'll be easily persuaded towards liking gawyn and supporting gawene once the show has time to give him proper screentime and show who he is as an individual rather than as an extension of galad. let him cook!

[amemoryofwot]

Ranking my top alternatives to the Cauthor CPR scene which I am coming to terms with not getting:

Tuon: it does seem logical to introduce Tuon to keep the Seanchan relevant and set up endgame arcs, and I think there’s a lot she could absorb of the sul’dam channeling arc, but I can’t see her being the CPR giver. She would not be touching some random dude in the street, even if she met him in the earlier episode. It would be extremely funny though if the first person Mat came across was the Daughter of the Nine Moons. I would break all of Seanchan custom For The Bit. 1/10

Thom: look ok I know I’m a Thom hater but there is so much to be done with him that could be so genuinely heartbreaking. If HE was the CPR giver and it was a callback to him saying in season one that they need to look out for Mat, and he couldn’t save Owein but he could save him, or something along those lines, well, I would have to lay down and cry. 4/10

Min: they have such a lovely in-show friendship underneath all the casual roasting so I think this could be a really touching moment for them that would instantly dissolve into disgust as Mat wakes up. I’m not sure exactly how much I want this played for laughs though so this is like the mid road point for me. 5/10

Elayne: for one she would LOVE to be the CPR giver and for two this would be a really fun thread of the polycule, like just Elayne and her Aiel girlfriend and these boys she keeps having to stop from dying. 7/10

Nynaeve: saving my preferred and imo most likely option for last. We have a beautiful storyline with Mat and Nynaeve going, from her saying she would heal him of the dagger herself back in season 1 to him saying he wants to stay with her because if anyone can help him, it’s her in season three. I think this line is setting up a lot of her future arcs but also the show loves a callback, so Mat already identifying who will save him is very in line. (Oh it’s also kind of giving me book Siuan/Gareth they need to stay close to survive vibes? Hmm.) People have also been very upset Nynaeve hasn’t had many wins so this would be a big one, howeverrrr Mat will be coming through that doorway with his medallion. This will also be a neat way to showcase what it does. Show onlys will have seen Nynaeve Healing with a massive flow of Power before, except here they can show how the medallion stops even beneficial flows and instead have Nynaeve save him through her medical training. 11/10 no notes.

[vorbarrsultana]

lanfear telling rand that it's possible to severe someone's ties to the dark one in 3x03 definitely sets up him doing that to asmodean/sammael/whatever male forsaken in the finale, right?

[queen-of-andor]

I'm totally fine with most show changes but I'll forever miss Moiraine, Rand and Mat all exiting the Aelfinn doorway at the same time and being the personation of that meme:

[sidleyparkhermit]

you know, I thought I was pretty saturated with book spoilers long ago, but now after catching up on S3 I’m looking at the wiki again and just going oh my god there are Black Ajah EVERYWHERE

[moghedien]

I love show onlys being surprised that Lanfear was an Aes Sedai

wait until they figure out that all of the Forsaken were Aes Sedai

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

I really really hope we get lews therin talking in rand’s head in the show by having the actor be in scenes talking to rand and no one else can see him, like we did that scene in episode 1.1 of the man taken by the taint madness who was trying to protect someone who wasn’t there.

[daughter-heir]

god I can’t wait to see Moghedien and Nynaeve interact. they truly have the craziest beef

[sugarcube-stillabookworm]

when Bair says "when you return...if you return" and it shows moiraine and rand behind the spears but rand is fully visible while moiraine is cut through by a blade i-