#We also see that Jimmy was projecting onto Curly hard even before the layoffs

[blissfulrain12]

Cockpit Conversation Analysis

So I just wanted to go over my thoughts on this conversation cause I think people miss out on a few things. It's the first conversation we see between Curly and Jimmy when it's just the two of them. Before it happens we're told that Jimmy has been difficult with Anya, making her job harder and saying things that are sexual harassment (if the cartoon horse question isn't actually on the eval). We go into the conversation with the framing that Jimmy and Curly are friends. They've known each other for a long time and Curly is confident Jimmy won't bullshit him. Except on the way to the cockpit we get Curly's one and only bizarro moment and it's an expression of fear and anxiety. With this context in mind let's look at the actual conversation.

Transcript from @familiarartistname they're awesome for providing these.

I've already talked about these lines a bit but to sum up Jimmy asks Curly to fake it and Curly refuses to forcing him to go through the eval.

What I want to point out for this post is that Jimmy's not wrong in his assessment of how useless the psych evals are. I think his general irritation with the eval helps mask his disdain for Anya. Especially if being attracted to cartoon horses is an actual question in universe and not just an easter egg on the in game eval sheet. If it is I think this is part of why Curly and Anya don't take Jimmy as seriously as they should here.

I also think it's important to note how and when Curly bends the rules. He'll do Jimmy's eval for Anya but he won't make up answers for Jimmy. I think this is an example of the balancing act that Curly is engaged in as captain.

These next lines are interesting to me. One is that Curly seems to take separation of what PE needs to know and not know. He makes it clear that whatever Jimmy says here is not going to be repeated to the company. He does something similar for Anya when he thinks she took the gun during a breakdown over the layoffs. Notably he doesn't open up to Anya during his own eval. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason he doesn't is because of a lack of this distinction. This is also another example of Curly doing that balancing act of being a captain. Managing what the company should know while protecting his coworkers' mental health.

The other interesting part is Jimmy's answer to the question. He likes it cause they're in control here. I think Jimmy is the most positive about working for PE and it's all because he feels in control. I think people miss it but Jimny is happy for the most part pre layoff. He's in control what more could he want?

I think it's interesting that he says this because on paper Jimmy's not in control. I've seen people call Jimmy Curly's co-captain but he's not. He's just the co-pilot and by the looks of things isn't actually of higher rank than the rest of the crew. Post crash it takes 2 months for him to take the captain title and he gets push back from the others. If he did outrank them or was co-captain leadership would have instantly passed to him but it doesn't. Yet Jimmy says "We're in control" because Curly's control is his control because he controls/leeches off of Curly. I think this line is our first warning sign that something's not quite right with their relationship.

This part of the conversation has a lot going on even though it's so few lines. First it tells us that Jimmy liking the job is unexpected because he's struggled in the past and people praise Curly as a captain and Jimmy doesn't like that.

Focusing on Jimmy's line I think this is the first line that people pick up on that their friendship is strange because who tells their friend people praising them is annoying? If you look at the flow of the conversation there's no reason for Jimmy to bring this up as well. It goes "How are you?" "Great" "That's unexpected because of your past" "Yeah well people praising you is annoying". They're not talking about Curly or how people see him as a captain. Jimmy brings it up and calls it annoying simply to hurt Curly.

Jimmy takes Curly bringing up his struggles as an attack so he attacks back by making him feel bad about something good. Remember that when Jimmy brings this up during the birthday scene he misquotes Curly as saying "struggle of a life" when that's not what Curly said at all. That's how Jimmy felt about it though. This also isn't the last time Jimmy uses Curly's success as a captain as a weapon against him either. The way Jimmy does this is also very emotionally abusive. Jimmy isn't just framing praise for Curly as bad but bad because it upsets Jimmy. It might not seem like much but comments like these are links in a chain, they add up together.

For Curly's part of the conversation I've seen interesting interpretations of what those "struggles" were but I think we do lose some context sometimes. It's important to remember that Curly thinks Jimmy's struggles would've led him to dislike being a freighter pilot. Meaning his struggles are most likely more personal in nature.

So Jimmy switches topics again by asking Curly what's bothering him. Jimmy also does this during the birthday party scene. He seems very intune with Curly's emotions able to see past any attempts to hide it and see that he's upset. Which does indicate their closeness and friendship.

As for the last line looking at this transcript made me realize how much the fandom associates this suicidal imagery with Curly even though it's Jimmy who says it. In fact I don't think Curly ever describes his feelings like this it's always Jimmy who says it about Curly. This is a very odd way to ask your friend why he seems upset and iirc the next time Jimmy brings this imagery up to Curly is right before he attempts a murder-suicide.

(The line "And that's bad?" should be green as that's Jimmy.)

Curly's answer to Jimmy's question is very interesting because it's not uncommon for people his age to feel this way. We spend the first part of our lives growing into, discovering, and establishing the people we're going to be. When we hit our 30s/40s it's natural to look over who you've become and what you've made for yourself and ask "Am I satisfied with this?" I think for Curly he's leaning towards "no".

It's not that Curly thinks he's above his job, he's just not satisfied in it. It's like how Swansea isn't satisfied with the life of a family man even though society says that's the "right" way to live. Curly is weighing the risks and benefits of staying in a steady job he's successful at vs starting over with something that will satisfy him even if he's not conventionally successful at it. It's a heavy decision to make and we know from the dlc for How Fish Are Made that Curly regrets not changing sooner.

As for Jimmy's response, he in fact doesn't get it. It's fascinating how Jimmy took Curly's words about life satisfaction and turned it into being about career success and hierarchy. Curly's feelings have nothing to do with reaching the top of his career but Jimmy can't see this. Jimmy sees the world through Capitalist/Patriarchal hierarchies and has a habit of projecting his feelings/pov onto others. This is the closest he can get to understanding where Curly is in his life right now. Which makes sense because Jimmy comes from poverty and has struggled in the past he's not at the same life stage as Curly.

It's also fascinating that again we see imagery that the fandom associates with Curly being something Jimmy says about Curly and that Curly never expresses. The only time this imagery comes up for Curly iirc is his bizzaro sequence leading up to this conversation with Jimmy. The ladder is a metaphor Jimmy imposes on Curly. He also kind of imposes this sense of ambition onto Curly. Like it's only natural that after reaching the top of one ladder a man would look for a new ladder to climb.

There's something about the last thing Jimmy says here that is necessary to point out because I think people miss it. Jimmy turns the conversation back to himself. He's made Curly's feelings about himself and once again made Curly's feelings in opposition to his own. Curly's dissatisfaction while being at the top vs Jimmy still climbing.

Lastly Curly knows Jimmy doesn't get it. "Something like that" indicates Jimmy's interpretation isn't right and later in the birthday party scene Curly reinforces this by saying things like "what I was trying to tell you". So yeah Curly knows that Jimmy doesn't understand him but doesn't try to explain further.

Curly's last bit of dialog in this scene is him comforting Jimmy. Remember how I said Jimmy recenters himself despite the conversation at this point being about Curly? This is what I mean. Jimmy asked Curly to be vulnerable with him and Curly ends up comforting Jimmy. Jimmy gives Curly no words of reassurance here, in fact Curly doesn't even get understanding.

In comparison see my Dead Pixel analysis where even though Curly doesn't see the pixel he still believes Anya and aligns with her opinion of the screen being nice. There's no alignment here between Curly and Jimmy, they are talking about 2 different things and it's one sided in Jimmy's favor. In the Dead Pixel convo notice how Anya continues to open up to him, she goes from the pixel to the time left to the locks. Curly in comparison stops trying.

This line also establishes Curly's belief in Jimmy. A belief that even this conversation demonstrates that he shouldn't have. But it's subtle and I can't blame Curly for missing all the things wrong here when so many of the fandom misses it too. We give the conversation the benefit of the doubt because they're friends and we don't know the full scope of Jimmy yet. It's also interesting cause this is the only time Curly says he believes in Jimmy outright and yet the way he believes Anya about Jimmy brings up questions for another time.

Alright last bit and it's from Jimmy himself. So two things from those first lines. One we have Jimmy back to feeling good from Curly's belief in him. A reminder that back when he was asked how he was doing he was fine. Jimmy's feelings are the priority here. Two we see Jimmy's insecurities in here. He's insecure about how his eval comes across. He's very insecure about how he's precieved which comes up again and again through his obsession with reputation, being a hero, and being a patriarch. I also think this points to where his struggles might be in. The evals are labeled as psychological but the actual questions are about employee productivity. Which part of that Jimmy is worried about I'm not sure.

Then we get the message from corporate and Jimmy is instantly out of there. Which brings me back to the beginning. Jimmy likes it there cause "we're in control" and yet when the responsibility of that control shows up he excuses himself. Granted there may be a rule that no one else can be in the room when messages come in but that reinforces the fact that Jimmy doesn't have any power on paper. He's not a co-captain. Jimmy's sense of control comes from his power over Curly.

So yeah my final thoughts? This conversation is unhealthy and it's the nicest conversation we see Jimmy have with the actual Curly. We get a little joking around here and there but one on one longer convos? This is as nice as it gets. In context Curly experiences feelings of fear, anxiety, and isolation on his way to this conversation. It's full of unhealthy moments and the one sided prioritizing of Jimmy's feelings. The status quo for them has not changed yet. If this is an example of what their average conversations are like their relationship is emotionally abusive.

Imagine having a friendship where you have to always prioritize your friend's emotions over your own. Where if you say something that bothers them they take verbal potshots at you. Where they make you feel guilty for being more successful. Where they make your vulnerabilities about them. It's like I said it's links in a chain. By themselves it's not a problem but together over time these behaviors will do damage to a person.

And putting this conversation back into context this is one of three verbally abusive moments we witness in the span of a week. And there are indicators that in each that these abusive behaviors aren't new. Curly in this conversation doesn't question Jimmy claiming control or the "praise for you is annoying" comment. None of this is weird to him and that's a bad sign. Abusive behavior was already normalized on the Tulpar, it was a powder keg waiting to happen.

[bandtrees]

the thing about curly is that it feels like a copout to describe him as "too nice" but i think that really is the situation with him. i feel when talking about him as a leader there's a lot of talk about the anya and jimmy stuff but i feel not a lot about the parts that show his passiveness causing problems before then.

most notably, that he let daisuke aboard a ship not made for five people, and that he told the others about the layoffs before he was meant to. both very well-intentioned, interpersonally Nice things to do, that were welcome as a friend who cares about the crew, but less so as an authority figure who's supposed to have a spine about those sorts of things.

he's not really thinking about the repercussions for revealing this information, or the impact it'll have on his crew's mental states in the months they have left for their last haul, because in his eyes - and this is something he tells both anya and jimmy - they'll Get Through It Together. curly is someone who reassures the people around him a lot in his dialogue. he cares a lot about people but does, in fact, care too much, and when it comes down to it, he can't do much except care.

an important thing to note with the anya situation (specifically in contrast to the "curly only cared about jimmy" take i see around) is that curly does reassure her, and i think did genuinely believe what he was saying when he told her everything was going to be okay and that they'd figure it out together. it's just that he also told those things to jimmy, and when you're a person as passive as curly, if you don't put your foot down people are going to weasel in and use that as an opening.

curly was a good friend, but not a good leader. there's only so much that reassurances without tangible action can do for someone in the state anya was in. he likely let daisuke board because he felt for and liked him, disregarding the fact it was literally unsafe for him to do so because of the pod situation. he told the crew they were getting laid off because it felt right for him to do so, he acted as a "friend" and not as a "leader".

and this is really cool contrast to jimmy, imo, who has no sense of compassion and is quick to take impulsive, ruthless decisions he expects praise for by sole virtue of being hard. jimmy would rather mouthwash someone's open wounds and force another to commit cannibalism than mercy-kill them - because someone dying under his care means he failed, and he can't have that, and so he will drag out their suffering for as long as humanly possible. he can't actually face the consequences of his actions.

both of them have this mantra of "i can fix it" without actually fixing much of anything - however i think curly differs in that he's a compassionate person who doesn't mind being on the same level as his crew (for better or worse), meanwhile jimmy can never shake the title of "captain" and the inflated sense of importance it gives him and that he projects onto curly. curly cares but doesn't act, jimmy acts but doesn't care.

BUT - i think a really interesting thing here too is how they act in the immediate danger of the crash. jimmy hides with his hands on his head, catatonic, while curly rushes in to try and salvage the ship even when it'll endanger him. jimmy is unable to face the gravity of what he did, while curly - even if he's not a good captain socially - is willing to put himself in danger to fix it. it gives the impression that while curly can't raise a hand against other people, he's willing to go down with his ship and put others before himself.

and putting others before himself is his entire relationship with jimmy, no? curly's dialogue with his crewmates is very reassuring, with a generous "we'll fix it together" attitude (see his patience with daisuke in the foam scene, and how he offers to do jimmy's psych eval when anya doesn't want to (compared to how jimmy would likely handle those situations, as we see when he yells at anya when asked to do tasks for her)) - BUT i would argue it's even moreso apparent with jimmy.

curly's povs, in my mind, offer the views on characters we don't see from jimmy's perspective, as jimmy cherrypicks scenes to paint anya as incompetent, daisuke as stupid and spoiled, swansea as mean and unstable - with curly, we see anya is gossipy and likes to joke around, daisuke is willing to fix problems by himself even if he struggles, et cetera. and with curly, we see, in how he talks to and about jimmy, he's very... concerned for him? and walks on eggshells around him.

^^^ after jimmy has pivoted a conversation curly was having about his life to be about his insecurities, and curly takes the bait and reassures him.

in general, he seems wary of jimmy as someone who will blow up if not reassured.

and he talks to, and about him, like he's taken on this quasi-therapist "responsible" role for him. he has this very... mental health-centered way of talking to jimmy - we'll fix it together, one day at a time, hey i believe in you, etc. which gives me the impression of, and this happens very often, a very trusting and overly-empathetic guy who's been roped into a relationship with someone whose safety and actions have been made his responsibility.

(i obviously don't mean this to woobify curly, or to diminish the game's commentary on rape culture, but rather to express that there's more to curly's behavior around jimmy than "shitty men cover for eachother".)

and i think one of the ultimate tragedies of curly's character is that, in the end, what jimmy projects on him -

-was true. this is how curly thought, before he was forced to come to terms, via experiencing jimmy's abuse of him, witnessing anya's suicide and the others' bodies, that jimmy was a monster who was never going to care about curly the way curly cared about him.

but, because jimmy views curly, now disabled, as a complete blank slate because he physically cannot speak for himself, jimmy continues to project upon him the dynamic that did exist between them - no matter the horrors he puts curly through, because if curly let him get away with it then, he'd let him get away with it now, right?

and when curly didn't put his foot down when it mattered, he now no longer can - and so jimmy's words, as long as he's as unable to speak for himself as he was back then, will be in his mouth forever.

:(